Sweet new Pontiacs

[Fredrick]

I don't know if anyone here is into cars... but wow. Pontiac is starting to look really good.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/Fredrick_NP/1-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/Fredrick_NP/2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/Fredrick_NP/6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/Fredrick_NP/12.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/Fredrick_NP/10.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/Fredrick_NP/4-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/Fredrick_NP/13.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/Fredrick_NP/11.jpg

http://www.bimmerfest.com/photos/data/500/G8_pg_1_2008_Pontiac_Cat.jpg

Now if you don't mind... I'm going back to drooling over these new pics.

[Blitzkommando]

The only Pontiac I'd be somewhat interested in would be the GTO (or whatever it is being called now. I can't tell by the pictures). It is a very nice car with plenty of power and good looks but is also nice and practical. Aside from that I'd be more likely to opt for a non-GM vehicle simply because of just how much GM has fallen in the last twenty years. Some of the Chevys are nice, but really they don't offer near as much as they used to and the quality has been going down the shitter as well (good thing we have lemon laws now though). It's not just a GM problem though as Ford and Chrysler both have had similar problems. (Although since Chrysler was bought out they seem to be doing a bit better)

It's really sad to see the American automotive industry, which used to be the absolute best in the world, sink down to the point where you can get an import for less money but get more features and better service. Still, Toyota, Honda, and Subaru have really stepped up to the plate and offer some excellent vehicles, and with Toyota and Honda (I'm not sure about Subaru, but I'm pretty sure them as well), you'd still be buying an American built car. Still, that's not to say American companies are all bad, it's just that they certainly have seen far better days. They just got horribly arrogant and stubborn believing that people would always buy American cars no matter what else appeared in the market. They seem to finally have their heads out of their asses now and are finally starting to deliver what the customers have wanted. Let's just hope the trend continues back up rather than back down.

Those Pontiacs do look good and have a striking resemblance to some Nissans and Toyotas I've seen. (Toyota Sunfire and Nissan 350Z specifically although the little coupe reminds me of the Honda S2000 from that angle)

[Fredrick]

On 2007-09-02 21:03, Norvekh wrote:
The only Pontiac I'd be somewhat interested in would be the GTO (or whatever it is being called now. I can't tell by the pictures). It is a very nice car with plenty of power and good looks but is also nice and practical. Aside from that I'd be more likely to opt for a non-GM vehicle simply because of just how much GM has fallen in the last twenty years. Some of the Chevys are nice, but really they don't offer near as much as they used to and the quality has been going down the shitter as well (good thing we have lemon laws now though). It's not just a GM problem though as Ford and Chrysler both have had similar problems. (Although since Chrysler was bought out they seem to be doing a bit better)

It's really sad to see the American automotive industry, which used to be the absolute best in the world, sink down to the point where you can get an import for less money but get more features and better service. Still, Toyota, Honda, and Subaru have really stepped up to the plate and offer some excellent vehicles, and with Toyota and Honda (I'm not sure about Subaru, but I'm pretty sure them as well), you'd still be buying an American built car. Still, that's not to say American companies are all bad, it's just that they certainly have seen far better days. They just got horribly arrogant and stubborn believing that people would always buy American cars no matter what else appeared in the market. They seem to finally have their heads out of their asses now and are finally starting to deliver what the customers have wanted. Let's just hope the trend continues back up rather than back down.

Those Pontiacs do look good and have a striking resemblance to some Nissans and Toyotas I've seen. (Toyota Sunfire and Nissan 350Z specifically although the little coupe reminds me of the Honda S2000 from that angle)



Wow... I'm sorry but you don't know what you are talking about. American cars sucked in the 80s and part of the 90s, but it's been pretty much a complete reversal in the past few years.

This year GM's Buick beat Toyota's lexus for most reliable brand long term. That's the first time ANY brand has beat lexus. They also beat Toyota for North American Car of the Year. The best award a car can get. And then with these new cars like the G8 above, redesigned CTS, and Chevy Malibu... there's really no reason to opt for a Toyota. People have it in their head that Toyotas are still more reliable and more fuel efficient... and it's just not true anymore.

And no. Toyota has got to the point where they are more expensive. And most Toyotas are still built outside the US. They hire ~20,000 Americans, while GM alone hires ~120,000. All of which are MUCH higher paid than Toyota's employees. (Which is part of the reason GM has financial problems).

Oh and I also think it's worth mentioning Toyota is in 2nd place for most recalls this year while GM is 11th. Toyota is doing what GM did in the 80s.... riding on previous accomplishments. Kind of reminds me of Sonic Team.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/Fredrick_NP/08bu.jpg

Oh and the Sunfire is a Pontiac. Not a Toyota. And the Solstice has FAR more style than some outdated s2000.

[Blitzkommando]

Ah, good to see someone still gets pissy about that. Sorry, I grew up in the Dayton area so I've grown contempt for the way the unionization of GM has absolutely destroyed the company. So much so that I've grown to avoid their products. As for quality, from what I've seen and been in within the last few years has been made with rather cheap plastic parts and just felt cheap. Apparently I'm not alone considering GM just shut down yet another plant in Dayton. They need to step up to the plate and grow some nads and not give in to every whim of the unions. That's what got them into the shit they were in during the 90s and is keeping them in shit today. Until they do clean up their act I have a hard time convincing myself to consider their vehicles because I flat out disagree with how they run things and that's frankly my only way to show them that. Another part of GM's problem is they gobbled up too many companies too quickly which added a lot of debt.

As for Buick? A Buick would rate about as high as a Geo for appeal to me. I'm not a senior citizen and I'm not a soccer mom. So Buick could win the "Bestest Car Ever Made" award and I couldn't give two shits. (Same goes for Lexus and Infiniti)

I drove a Malibu a number of times. I couldn't wait to get out of that thing. I never felt safe in it and it was horribly uncomfortable. It was fairly easy to steer but it just wasn't a pleasurable driving experience much due to just how uncomfortable the seat was and how little adjustment could be made. If I were to go for a Malibu it would be one from the late 1960s as those were very nice vehicles (top end Chevelles which were another car I liked out of GM's hayday).

Nice of you to 'neglect' to metion that Honda has built more new plants in the US in the last ten years than GM. (Hell, you completely neglected Honda entirely) Most Hondas sold in the US today are made in the US (and Mexico and Canada but sold as domestic due to NAFTA and the vast majority are built in the US, about 2/3). Again, having lived in Ohio until recently I've heard a lot of good about them and having driven two of their vehicles I can say they looked good, felt good, and were a pleasure to drive.

As for the Sunfire, I made a faux pas. I knew the name sounded wrong but couldn't quite put my finger on what was correct. I knew it started with an "S" and had something to do with 'suns' but it's the Solara I meant just to clear it up.

As for the Solstice... Personally it looks Grade A ugly to me (Just like the Saturn clone of it, whatever that's called). I've never been a fan of cars with oversized grills like that though anyway. From my view, the S2000 is a far more attractive vehicle to look at because of that (Or even the older style Miata as much as I don't care for it).

Comparing a CTS to a Toyota? That's a bit silly. Then again, it is a rather strange Cadillac anyway but still. Better to compare a luxury brand to another, like Lexus or Infiniti

[KodiaX987]

2007 Motor Trend Car of the Year: Toyota Camry (http://www.motortrend.com/womt/112_0701_2007_coty_2007_toyota_camry/)

Unless you want to talk about the 2007 truck of the year, which was the Chevy Silverado.


By the way, I'd love to know your sources for all the information you pulled out. By law of Internet, it is assumed that source is your ass until proven otherwise.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KodiaX987 on 2007-09-03 07:16 ]</font>

[Sekani]

Toyotas aren't even eligible for North American car of the year, since they're a Japanese company. The new Camry is fucking sweet though if you've had a chance to drive it.

That said, the rift between domestic and foreign automakers these days exists mostly in people's minds. Quality and reliability have improved across the board. Hondas are still legendary for running pretty much forever, but other than that with proper maintenance any vehicle should last for a long time.

[Fredrick]

^Uhhh wrong. Japanese cars have won NA car of the year in the past http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Car_of_the_Year.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

" 2007 Motor Trend Car of the Year: Toyota Camry "

That's just one publication based on the biased opinions of just a few editors. NA car of the year is based on 48 different editors from random publications.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You said you drove the Malibu. The new one isn't even out yet, and has been completely redesigned.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/Fredrick_NP/2008malibu_black.jpg

And I didn't mention Honda, because they do even less than Toyota. It doesn't matter that Honda has 7 whole assembly plants, because GM has over 25. And they have closer to 50 when you count the design studios, engine, and transmission assembly. In fact I think it's over 50. GM alone hires more Americans THAN ALL FORIEGN AUTOMAKERS COMBINED. GM has had to lay off about 10,000 employees in the past year. Honda and Toyota sure as hell aren't making up for that. In fact Toyota recently announced they have built too many US plants and are going to scale back.

If you seriously think the S2000 looks better than a Solstice or Sky... then you have no sense of style either. http://www.carpages.co.uk/honda/honda_images/honda_s2000_front_24_04_05.JPG

http://news.windingroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/2007-Solstice-GXP---yellow.jpg

http://www.saturn.com/saturn/showroom/future_vehicles/SKY_scenic2.jpg

You probably think the Enclave is ugly too lmao.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/naias/prod/enclave/1.jpg



EDIT: Lmao, and what do you mean by clean up their act? They have far higher morals than Toyota. The company getting sued for failing to issue a recall that would hurt it's wonderful image. And I don't see Toyota building any "World's Most Efficient Vehicle Assembly" plants. I haven't seen Toyota lower their global emissions by 40% since 2000. And I haven't seen them pledge to lower them another 50% by 2010. Or have I seen them make an affordable hybrid. Or an electric car concept.

If you think GM's workers are treated poorly... which is what I assume you were getting at, you're dead wrong. Inside the industry GM is commonly referred to as Generous Motors. If people don't like the work, they can leave. But at $35 an hour to be a janitor... I don't see how anyone could complain.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Fredrick on 2007-09-03 10:34 ]</font>

[KodiaX987]

On 2007-09-03 10:13, Fredrick wrote:

That's just one publication based on the biased opinions of just a few editors. NA car of the year is based on 48 different editors from random publications.


Of course. Everything you say regardless of source must be regarded as true fact while articles I may pull from any car magazine, Motortrend or not, definitely has to be falsehood spread by biased reviewers.

By the way, I still haven't seen your sources yet. 48 magazines? All right. Who put all those 48 choices together? A web page about that has to exist somewhere, doesn't it?

And while I'm at it, of course liking the S2000 over the Solstice is against your religion. Who would've thought? I hope I don't personally offend you by saying I love the styling of the 2007 Honda Accord. But, that's wishful thinking on my part.

Because no matter what's going to happen in this thread, you'll be always right. You are God, you are the omnipotent, we bow before your supreme sense of aesthetics and your magical ability of turning any phrase of your choice into an undeniable truth.



Just kidding. GTFO my internet.

[Fredrick]

Warning for this post


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HAYABUSA-FMW- on 2007-09-03 18:09 ]</font>

[PJ]

On 2007-09-03 11:21, Fredrick wrote:
You stupid liberals are going to be the end of tis country. America is the only place in the world that attacks itself. Our country got to where it is because we had the most nationalism. Well that's gone now. Lets see what happens.



Wow, from cars to politics.

Now, I don't know shit about cars, but I know THAT is hilarious.

Also,

The link you gave wrote:
Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PJ on 2007-09-03 13:25 ]</font>

[Sekani]

I stand corrected on the NA car of the year thing (I never hear about it when imports win), but way to autofail your own thread with the "stupid liberals" comment. I mean, you've managed to elevate yourself from champion of the American automotive industry to babbling right-wing buffoon in record time. Most impressive.

[Blitzkommando]

On 2007-09-03 11:21, Fredrick wrote:
If you don't know about NA car of the year... you dont know shit about the auomotive industry, and have no place in this thread.

You stupid liberals are going to be the end of tis country. America is the only place in the world that attacks itself. Our country got to where it is because we had the most nationalism. Well that's gone now. Lets see what happens.


What the flying fuck? Seriously. Because I don't like the styling or build of an American car I'm a liberal scumbag? (Oh, and by the by, not everyone on this forum is an American, omgwtfbbq)

Sorry to burst your bubble but there are American cars I like, some even from GM. As a matter of fact if I were in the market the car I would consider would be the new Ford Mustang. It's a beautiful car and really goes back to its roots.

Sorry my choice of style doesn't jive with yours, oh supreme emperor of cars. To me the S2000 looks classy. Oh, and I've not really cared for the looks of the Buicks in the last... 20 years or so either. It's called personal taste. And for me, the Buicks with their oversized chrome grills don't look at all enticing. I don't need my car to be so bold looking with the grill. As a matter of fact, I'd be happy to just have the flat black grill as it doesn't distract from the rest of the car's stylings. That's why one of the ugliest cars on the road today, from my viewpoint, is the Chrysler 300. It absolutely reeks of aristocracy in its appearance and reminds me far too much of the gigantic luxury cars of the 1920s-1930s.

And let me make it a bit easier for you: I hate unions. Period. I've seen their pamphlets, heard their diatribe, and seen the effects they have on industry. In case you're still a bit confused, getting rid of the unionization would be something that no liberal or even moderate could stomach because they make up such a large percent of their voters. I'm not going to get into all the reasons why, but lets just say that after having family work both before and after the unization really took hold I have a far better appreciation for the time before. GM has not once said no to the unions. That's what they need to clean up. They need to get the balls to tell them 'no' or else they won't continue to exist at the ever increasing costs the unions (leaders) demand.

Only country to attack itself, eh? Ever heard of the French Revolution? How about the October Revolution? Spanish Revolution? Portuguese Coup? War of the Roses? We've had a single civil war since we became a nation meaning that at least our conflicts are non-violent (aside from cane swinging senators) in the most part. Poor Russia had multiple revolutions between 1917 and 1935, all of which were bloody. France's revolution was one of the bloodiest in history, and oh gee, it was Frenchmen against Frenchmen. All peoples argue and fight against each other. Even in good old Canada people have disagreements (and sometimes even get into good old brawls).

You're fighting windmills where you see giants.

[Fredrick]

Just because I dislike liberals doesn't mean I'm right winged. I hate both sides, as they both base their lives on things that dont exist (God, global warming). But liberals are far more damaging. You will NEVER hear a republican say "America is the problem". And there seems to be a lot of that going around.

And those example you posted are all in the past. I'm talking right now. It is VERY unusual for a country to hate it's own companies. Everyone loves to hate wal-mart.... even though Target operates the same exact way but without the commitment to charities and the environment.

It's ridiculous how much kids dislike our own cars when they don't know shit about them. Yes. They did suck in the 80s. But guess what, not even Toyota can match the quality of vehicles like the Escalade, Acadia, 08 Malibu, CTS, and Corvette. If Toyota is so freakin reliable, why don't they offer 100,000 mile warranties like GM? How come the camry has the same mileage as the bigger impala? And why the hell does the Tunda and sequoia get 18 MPG while the Silverado and Tahoe get 22?

[Sord]

On 2007-09-03 11:21, Fredrick wrote:
America is the only place in the world that attacks itself.
ah..ha...ha...hahahahahahahaha

I don't know jack shit about cars. But I do know that is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Try going to 3rd world countries that ravage the hell out of themselves through civil war. I hear there's a lot of them in Africa. God knows the names certainly change often enough http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

As per union vs. non-union, it really depends. There's a point where to much of either side can get bad.

[Blitzkommando]

I'm sorry, but how many 'kids' can afford any of those outiside the Malibu? Joe Schmoe can't afford a $40,000+ car. Joe Schmoe wants a car that gets him to work and back, gets decent milage, and is safe. Looks are important but a bonus. And Joe Schmoe wants it done at under $25,000 (preferably under $20,000). So, yeah, kids are going to dislike most of the options they can afford. But hey, I keep seeing those silly Cobalts everywhere along with the Civics and whatnot. And, hey, I see a lot of Mustangs too. I must not be the only one that liked what Ford did, and kudos to them. Still, comparing the CTS, Corvette and Escalade are part of a small minority of this country's vehicles purchased. Most people aren't out to buy a Caddy or Vette. Most are going to opt for a Chevy or Mustang.

[Fredrick]

On 2007-09-03 14:48, Sord wrote:

On 2007-09-03 11:21, Fredrick wrote:
America is the only place in the world that attacks itself.
ah..ha...ha...hahahahahahahaha

I don't know jack shit about cars. But I do know that is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Try going to 3rd world countries that ravage the hell out of themselves through civil war. I hear there's a lot of them in Africa. God knows the names certainly change often enough http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif



The United states isn't a 3rd world.

Not only the expensive vehicles are improving. Both the G5 and Cobalt are great cars engineered by GM's German division. They have the best 0-60 times in their class, and also cost less then the Civic and Corolla.

The G6 is $17, based on the Aura platform (car the won NA car of the year)

Even the Aveo is pretty impressive. The drivetrain sucks, but it looks pretty nice, comes with a lot standard, and has a really good interior.

And there is another small car coming... the Saturn Astra. $15,000.

http://blogs.cars.com/photos/uncategorized/astra2frontquarter.jpg

http://z.about.com/d/cars/1/7/h/f/gm_astra_xr_3dr_side1.jpg