2nd best gunner

[Pharaoh007]

I want to make a gunner but I don't want another cast, so I want to know which race has the 2nd best accuarcy?(2nd best gunner)

[CelestialBlade]

Second best ATA goes to Newmen, followed by Humans and Beasts. Newmen make pretty awesome gunners, especially Guntechers since you can actually utilize their TP. If you find their ATP to be too low, hunt for a Solid / Power S since their ATA can easily take the hit.

[ljkkjlcm9]

with the statistical ATA boost of a ranger class, almost any race can play the class well, including beasts. I'd say, go human if you want pure range but not too much of an ATP or ATA loss. If you realize ATA is pretty much there for you as a ranger, go beast for the ATP.

THE JACKEL

[Pharaoh007]

ok I'm goin go beast or human becaus eI already have a newman aswell, but I just can't decied which one to go with.

[Sgt_Shligger]

Human, beast women are filthy.

[Pharaoh007]

lol!

[Dragwind]

If you're going GT, then I recommend the Newman with solid/power S combo. Otherwise, i'd recommend CAST if you can get your hands on some nice grinded B rank wands.

[drizzle]

CASTs are the second best gunner, actually ;P

[Niloklives]

beast all the way. gunners not being able to does out melee damage effectively when needed can be pretty rough. the nanoblast more than makes up for that. I actually will lay down say a virus G trap, detonate it and then blast so I can lay into whatever I'm fighting even further with a power blast...ends things very quickly


I know beast GTs too and they function very well since the only spell they uuse that relies on TP is resta. but in either case the ata mods on gunner classes are so high that beasts do extremely well in these situations...beast for sure

also, newman/SPS is kinda silly when you think about it...lower ata, but higher ATP? it's the that a beast or human? and it not like SPSes fall from trees anyway...yet...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-09-04 01:02 ]</font>

[CelestialBlade]

On 2007-09-04 00:58, NIloklives wrote:
also, newman/SPS is kinda silly when you think about it...lower ata, but higher ATP? it's the that a beast or human? and it not like SPSes fall from trees anyway...yet...


But you're combining the equivalent ATP of a male Beast with the TP of a female Newman. There are instances in which Foie or Diga prove useful to a Guntecher, like enemies that are resistant to both Melee and Ranged. SE them, then blast them with Diga, Newmen are the only Guntecher than can really pull that off.

It's going to be a lot more significant in AoI, when our TP and Technic levels become a lot better.

[Sexy_Raine]

Go human. with how my Nova has her stuff set up, she has 20 STA, decent EVP and high enough DFP for most Tenora armors.

Though, anyone can do gunner well, because it has so much to abuse that goes outside race stats unlike hunter and force. Traps being one of those that you get.

[Niloklives]

see there you're talking about gender...cause males can do 18 stamina at best so far while females can reach 21 even then STA isn't based on race and beasts have better dfp meaning you'll be able to equip better armor sooner and if you're using tenora armor the evade difference between humans and beasts will go unnoticed in the gunner classes.





But you're combining the equivalent ATP of a male Beast with the TP of a female Newman. There are instances in which Foie or Diga prove useful to a Guntecher, like enemies that are resistant to both Melee and Ranged. SE them, then blast them with Diga, Newmen are the only Guntecher than can really pull that off.

It's going to be a lot more significant in AoI, when our TP and Technic levels become a lot better.



if a newman can equip an SPS, a beast can do the same thing or a Cati/power. taking them up even higher for damage...you have to remember that any uint one race/class combo has access to...any race with that class has use of...

GT TP is too low even as a human or newman for those techs to be worth while. I just burn/infect those enemies. but a GT vs a Svaltus is not a fun fight. at least as a beast you can blast and fight back much more effectively that way.

and as a FG, TP may as a well not exist. so as a FG, newmans are worthless.

[Sgt_Shligger]

On 2007-09-04 16:09, NIloklives wrote:
see there you're talking about gender...cause males can do 18 stamina at best so far while females can reach 21 even then STA isn't based on race and beasts have better dfp meaning you'll be able to equip better armor sooner and if you're using tenora armor the evade difference between humans and beasts will go unnoticed in the gunner classes.





But you're combining the equivalent ATP of a male Beast with the TP of a female Newman. There are instances in which Foie or Diga prove useful to a Guntecher, like enemies that are resistant to both Melee and Ranged. SE them, then blast them with Diga, Newmen are the only Guntecher than can really pull that off.

It's going to be a lot more significant in AoI, when our TP and Technic levels become a lot better.



if a newman can equip an SPS, a beast can do the same thing or a Cati/power. taking them up even higher for damage...you have to remember that any uint one race/class combo has access to...any race with that class has use of...

GT TP is too low even as a human or newman for those techs to be worth while. I just burn/infect those enemies. but a GT vs a Svaltus is not a fun fight. at least as a beast you can blast and fight back much more effectively that way.

and as a FG, TP may as a well not exist. so as a FG, newmans are worthless.



Newman Fortegunners and Fighgunners are not useless, they do just fine. I've met Newman Fortegunners and I have a Newmen Fighgunner.

Problem with a Beast using a SPS is that, even though their ATA isn't horrible, it won't take the hit as well as a Newman, or even Human.

And also, that TP is not too low, my current newman Guntecher, at level 62, heals for 650. Capped GT ;o

[Pillan]

On 2007-09-04 16:09, NIloklives wrote:
GT TP is too low even as a human or newman for those techs to be worth while. I just burn/infect those enemies. but a GT vs a Svaltus is not a fun fight. at least as a beast you can blast and fight back much more effectively that way.


I think I'll add to that note with the fact that a Newman with a crossbow gets like 100 x 9-12 on a ranged resistant enemy in the same time that Newman gets an 800 from Diga. If you're anything else, that gap gets even larger.

[Zael]

On 2007-09-04 00:05, drizzle wrote:
CASTs are the second best gunner, actually ;P



this sounds somewhat familiar

[Shiro_Ryuu]

The Newman w/ the Solid / Power S doesn't sound so silly, I mean, what if you're picking the Newman for the pointy ears? Nothing wrong w/ that.

[Pillan]

On 2007-09-05 06:40, Shiroryuu wrote:
The Newman w/ the Solid / Power S doesn't sound so silly, I mean, what if you're picking the Newman for the pointy ears? Nothing wrong w/ that.


I believe what he was trying to point out is not that Newmans with solid/power are bad, but rather that the odds of a Newman getting solid/power are the same as the odds of any other race getting it, so the Newman still has to deal with its relative attack power weakness. That and the odds of finding solid/power aren't much higher than the odds of finding cati/power, though it is less time consuming because of the lower enemy levels. Saying "this class and race combination magically becomes good with x rare unit" is very silly simply because everyone can use x unit and everyone is equally unlikely to find it.

Yes a Newman with solid/power has more ATP than everyone else with no ATP up unit equipped, but you'll still be a lot weaker than the Cast with solid/power or a card/bow spamming Beast with it.

[Pharaoh007]

I'm not going to create a character based on the stats it could have with a power enhancing unit. Mostly because there's no way for me to get one.

[CelestialBlade]

I'm not saying Newman GT with a Solid / Power S is the only way to go, I'm saying it's the best way to go. If you want to optimize with a Newman GT, that's the Unit I recommend.

And allow me to reiterate that GT TP is getting a lot better in AoI, and we'll have Level 20 Attack Technics and Level 30 Support. Newmans are going to seriously benefit from that, versus Beasts and Casts. Sure, you could put a Cati / Power on a Beast GT and have some absurd ATP, but if that's your argument, why not go Fortegunner and get a better ATA mod, plus more ATP? The only GT with good Resta is a Newman, anyway, and ___tarides are the equivalent of Level 11-20 buffs. I just don't see why you would choose GT over fG with a Beast.

[Starrz]

On 2007-09-04 00:05, drizzle wrote:
CASTs are the second best gunner, actually ;P


Agreed!

[Kuya]

lol - As a newman fG, most of the time I'm not even worried about ATP since I rely on SE damage almost ALL the time. The other times I'm using killer shot so.... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Pillan]

On 2007-09-05 08:46, Typheros wrote:
I'm not saying Newman GT with a Solid / Power S is the only way to go, I'm saying it's the best way to go. If you want to optimize with a Newman GT, that's the Unit I recommend.


Yes, that is a good choice for Newman GT, but you could say get a Sori / Tech Charge for Cast GT to have Newman TP or get a Cati / Power for a Beast GT to have more ATP and about the same ATA as a Newman with Solid / Power S. That’s the main reason I wouldn’t bother including units into the equation: there too much work to find and are really only a measure of luck or amount of time wasted on this game rather than skill or race/class combination strength.


On 2007-09-05 08:46, Typheros wrote:
And allow me to reiterate that GT TP is getting a lot better in AoI, and we'll have Level 20 Attack Technics and Level 30 Support. Newmans are going to seriously benefit from that, versus Beasts and Casts. Sure, you could put a Cati / Power on a Beast GT and have some absurd ATP, but if that's your argument, why not go Fortegunner and get a better ATA mod, plus more ATP? The only GT with good Resta is a Newman, anyway, and ___tarides are the equivalent of Level 11-20 buffs. I just don't see why you would choose GT over fG with a Beast.


Yes, if GT retains its AoI beta stats, their resta and tech damage will pretty much triple. Your attack techs will be about as strong as WT’s right now. (About 16% less TP than WT right now but 5% higher buffs, which kind of cancels out; I’m too lazy to be more exact than that right now.) The only problem is that WT’s tech damage still isn’t considered that good and it still doesn’t quite beat the 9-12 crossbow or card shots a Cast or Beast could get in the same time on a ranged resistant enemy. That and the bullets all get an element boost and another 15-25% ATP boost (assuming the growth doesn’t go any higher after 31) on top of a 10% Shifta and Zodial boost. I’d say it makes it more balanced clearly, but it doesn’t really help enough to change too much.

Right now the unitless Resta gap between Cast and Newman GT is like 150 heal. Around 50 of that is just because Casts can’t equip more than 7 star wands right now. Sure the gap will increase if they retain the beta stats, but I doubt anyone will really care since the Cast is getting over 1000.

Also, the main reason I’d argue Beast GT is because of cards. They’re the only gun that adds melee weapon ATA, making a card spamming GT the most accurate class in the game (unfortunately, equipping anything else besides a bow, laser, or rifle makes them the least accurate class in the game). You can get ridiculously high damage/time spamming cards since the 3 shots lock on, rarely miss, have the same firing rate as crossbows/twin handguns, and has a higher ATP and element mod than crossbows. (Cards and bows are the two GT weapons where Beast ATP > Cast ATA on GT and rifles have the same effect to a lesser extent on fG.)


Getting back on topic, I’d say human is probably the second best ranger for all-around use. Beasts beat them in damage with a lot of guns, but really suffer when you use low ATA guns such as crossbows, grenades, or mechs and Newmans suffer with the lower ATP weapons like twin handguns, mechs, and shotguns. On the other hand, you could argue that the Beast Nano Blast makes up for the lower damage on the heavily dependant guns, so it really depends on what you plan to use.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-09-05 11:44 ]</font>

[CelestialBlade]

On 2007-09-05 11:40, Pillan wrote:

On 2007-09-05 08:46, Typheros wrote:
I'm not saying Newman GT with a Solid / Power S is the only way to go, I'm saying it's the best way to go. If you want to optimize with a Newman GT, that's the Unit I recommend.


Yes, that is a good choice for Newman GT, but you could say get a Sori / Tech Charge for Cast GT to have Newman TP or get a Cati / Power for a Beast GT to have more ATP and about the same ATA as a Newman with Solid / Power S. That’s the main reason I wouldn’t bother including units into the equation: there too much work to find and are really only a measure of luck or amount of time wasted on this game rather than skill or race/class combination strength.


Very true. But in that light, there's no overall "best" race, just depends on what stat you want to specialize in. Like most things it boils down to personal preference.



On 2007-09-05 08:46, Typheros wrote:
And allow me to reiterate that GT TP is getting a lot better in AoI, and we'll have Level 20 Attack Technics and Level 30 Support. Newmans are going to seriously benefit from that, versus Beasts and Casts. Sure, you could put a Cati / Power on a Beast GT and have some absurd ATP, but if that's your argument, why not go Fortegunner and get a better ATA mod, plus more ATP? The only GT with good Resta is a Newman, anyway, and ___tarides are the equivalent of Level 11-20 buffs. I just don't see why you would choose GT over fG with a Beast.


Yes, if GT retains its AoI beta stats, their resta and tech damage will pretty much triple. Your attack techs will be about as strong as WT’s right now. (About 16% less TP than WT right now but 5% higher buffs, which kind of cancels out; I’m too lazy to be more exact than that right now.) The only problem is that WT’s tech damage still isn’t considered that good and it still doesn’t quite beat the 9-12 crossbow or card shots a Cast or Beast could get in the same time on a ranged resistant enemy. That and the bullets all get an element boost and another 15-25% ATP boost (assuming the growth doesn’t go any higher after 31) on top of a 10% Shifta and Zodial boost. I’d say it makes it more balanced clearly, but it doesn’t really help enough to change too much.


I dunno about that. My Guntecher's Diga, with a +4 Majimra at base level 79, does well over 700 per shot to a Lightning enemy. Even with a Solid / Power S it can be hard to keep up with that. And that number will be far better in AoI. I'm not expecting Guntechers to ever have Fortetecher or even Acrotecher numbers, I just like having an alternative for Ranged-resistant enemies. Combining that with Burn/Virus 4 is even better, which is what I normally do with Polavohras: Burn 4 them, then pile on the Diga.

I suppose I should've stated that there is of course no best class for Guntecher. I just think Newman is an awesome choice, IMO.

[Niloklives]

not at all. I have a 14% earth shiratsuno zashi and a mega/power with shunbu at lvl 10 on my female human GT. on a lvl 100 polavohra I do about 800 damage per use total while flipping him at the same time. 14%. and that was at lvl 80 I haven't checked since and I can easily give her a better dagger. so while your diga will eventually catch up to my shunbu, my shunbu still hasn't reached even a half way mark. I much preffer my dagger to casting. it takes mid sized enemies down...flips large enemies and still does solid damage which I can spread across multiple targets at low risk.


I'll take the dagger

[AerisZeal]

I will defend myself as a Newman Fortegunner (Female at that and yes, even against you NIlok.) and say that I find myself -far- from "useless".

My only disability are my bullets, which are only unleveled due to laziness. I won't say that I do as much as a Cast could but thats relying on direct damage output, which I think, could be wrong, I shouldn't be judged on -as a gunner-.

Our purpose as I see it is to inflict a status effect and move on. And as far as I can tell, status effect damage does not rely on race.

Having said that however, I see little point to counting numbers and more point in just playing the game how you see fit.

Just my two meseta...

[Pharaoh007]

There are some long posts......

[Niloklives]

and some pointless posts mixed with them...=/

[Kuya]

I've run with my newman fG since day one (ranger first then fG....You know what I mean http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif) and I've never been "useless". When I started I knew my direct damage would not be as high as other races so I was happy when I found out that SE4 got loaded onto rifles http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Besides, I'm having enough fun without being the "best" suited for the class.

Actually, now that I think about it, I can dual class GT/fG and still have a good spread of bullets and techs http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif I'm glad that I picked newman lol

[Pillan]

On 2007-09-05 13:37, Typheros wrote:
I dunno about that. My Guntecher's Diga, with a +4 Majimra at base level 79, does well over 700 per shot to a Lightning enemy. Even with a Solid / Power S it can be hard to keep up with that. And that number will be far better in AoI. I'm not expecting Guntechers to ever have Fortetecher or even Acrotecher numbers, I just like having an alternative for Ranged-resistant enemies. Combining that with Burn/Virus 4 is even better, which is what I normally do with Polavohras: Burn 4 them, then pile on the Diga.


My point wasn’t that a single bullet can out damage your Diga, but that the sum of the bullets you fire in the same amount of time do surpass your Diga. Remember that it takes like a half second of charging, 1 second firing animation, and then another 1 to 2 seconds of repositioning. In the same amount of time, you could fire 3 or 4 shots from your crossbow, totaling around 7 or 8 bullets which actually hit the target. So, if you’re doing more than 100 damage per bullet from your crossbow, you’ve beaten your Diga damage.

Of course that will be better in AoI, as you said, but 8 shots from a Caseal GT’s crossbow against a ranged resistant enemy is still 1400+ damage right now, which will increase a lot thanks to the extra 10 levels to all bullets plus support tech increase.


As for Newman gunners in general, yes, you can rely on effects and sure you do a decent amount of damage. I’d say the main problem right now is enemy EVP isn’t high enough for Newman gunners to have any real advantage outside of HIVE or against BUGs, Svaltus, and Mizura. Really, you’re losing 5% of the human ranger damage per hit for about 2% more hits and nearly 15% of the Beast’s for 5% more hits against the average enemy as an fG. (Obviously being a Newman is a lot more advantageous on GT since their ATA isn’t nearly as saturated, but that can still be broken with cards and bows.) So, yeah, you’re landing more effects, but you’re killing slower.

Does it mean Newmans completely suck as ranger? That depends on what you care about really; if you want to land effects, they’re second only to Casts, but otherwise I would expect you to want something more middle of the road.

[Niloklives]

The problem there is casts outperform them in all aspect but evasion...but cast defense will let them equip higher level tenora armor, making up for the lack of evade.

that with the lack of a special ability makes it pretty tough to pick a newman over another race. I mean do it if you want...buy I really feel any race can do this class better.