Even more love for Gunners

[Pillan]

My friend on the JP version just informed me that large mobs had their STA reduced back to around 20. SE 2 works on most large mobs, making anything more than that over over kill.

Can't wait for that update to hit our servers.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-09-06 12:43 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

Boo fighgunners can screw up even more of my high-level Burn SE's with crappy dark / ice / fire shots :|
Yay my Frying Pan can burn stuff as a Fortefighter http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-09-06 13:03 ]</font>

[Soukosa]

From my friends, I've been told that only Polavohra has STA low enough now to be effected by SE2. Other large ones like Gol Dolva, Svaltus, SEED Vitace weren't effected they say, not yet anyways. However, they are easily effected by SE3 though. SE4 was stated to be redicously easy to land on them as well. We'll have to do more testing but since everyone's essentially spamming the event mission... yeah http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[panzer_unit]

Polahorvas deserve the low STA, since they take half damage except techs probably... if a fighter can burn 'em that will be a major help.

[Pillan]

I didn't get to ask my friend before she left, so I'm still curious to how Killer Shot and Megid were adjusted because of this. Can they be spammed in any mission or were they reduced serverely?

[panzer_unit]

I don't think they'd need much nerfing on killer shot.

1. anything that really shouldn't be KS'd is immune already
2. it's already got a low proc rate for an SE
3. there are already a lot of enemies with STA on par with robots, but there's no point KSing because it's cheaper and faster to kill 'em with normal hits. Robots are special because they die fast to KS _and_ really slowly by any other means... Burn doesn't stick and they take half damage

[amtalx]

I guess this means my SE4 Burn will land faster. Win.

[Pillan]

On 2007-09-06 13:46, panzer_unit wrote:
I don't think they'd need much nerfing on killer shot.

1. anything that really shouldn't be KS'd is immune already
2. it's already got a low proc rate for an SE
3. there are already a lot of enemies with STA on par with robots, but there's no point KSing because it's cheaper and faster to kill 'em with normal hits. Robots are special because they die fast to KS _and_ really slowly by any other means... Burn doesn't stick and they take half damage


I was thinking about it the other way. If large mobs have around 20 STA, then medium have 10-15, meaning Killer Shot can take them out faster than it could robots before and can kill robots and small mobs even faster than that.

I suppose you could argue that anyone who gets Killer Shot or Megid to 21+ deserves that ability, but it sounds a bit too powerful to me.

[Xaeris]

Considering you can afk level KS, I wouldn't argue that at all, and would laugh at anyone who did.

That being said, I suppose this means my WT's Foie will actually be halfway reliable for burning large things now...that should make my soloing go *much* smoother.

[Pillan]

On 2007-09-06 14:37, Xaeris wrote:
Considering you can afk level KS, I wouldn't argue that at all, and would laugh at anyone who did.


I seriously doubt ST balances anything based on AFK leveling. Doing missions that allow you to level the art faster, such as Unsafe Passage for skills, Valley of Carnage for bullets, and Sleeping Warriors for techs, yes, but not abusing enemies with Resta and a rapid fire controller.

[Zorafim]

What about the effect of enemy status to you? Does every other barta freeze you still?

[Midicronica]

This is AWESOME!

[Tykwa]

I still want S rank twin pistols

[Katy]

Gunners are so broken. Oh well I made one for this very reason I'm not complaining.

[Arika]

no, they didnt just made this only gunner, they make this for techer card too. they say SE 2 can feeze jabra, but just a little bit,

as for what I guess , I think all SE can effect all enemy now, (or may be SE 2 above)
let's say in the old patch :
large mobs are totally immune to SE 1-3 , only SE 4 can affect. this make low SE weapon like laser cannon and mechgun are useless.

let's say in this new patch (guess) :
large mob are not immune to any SE, but easy to infect SE4, and harder to infect by lower SE (1 = hardest, 4 = easiest)
but those enemy are no more immune to low SE if they can be infect by SE 4, they will do for SE 1-3 too (just a guess)

[Niloklives]

why would they do THAT?!


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-09-07 08:04 ]</font>

[Pillan]

On 2007-09-07 08:03, NIloklives wrote:
why would they do THAT?!



On 2007-08-29 10:47, Pillan wrote:
You forget that overpowered and underpowered are based on the JP version and no one plays ranger, much less uses ranger for SEs, over there. They'll probably complain that Fortegunner is underpowered with an unnoticable ATA growth and reasonable ATP growth and ask for them to be buffed with higher ATP, but only get higher SEs as I'll assume ST is smart enough to expect that to lead to buffing melee arts shortly after that.


Not quite SE 5, but it is a general SE buff, which is pretty much the same thing.

[OldCoot]

This is good news.

[Gen2000]

Putting SE2 Burn/Infect on Polavohra with Twins just won't look right at all.

[chibiLegolas]

Even IF med mobs are easier kill with KS, don't forget that it's still draining on rifles. I've tried leveling KS up on bots with grinded 3* and 6* rifles, and I STILL run out of PP. So to say that KS will be over kill is still a stretch. One of the main flaws of KS IS the PP costs. Don't forget.
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[CelestialBlade]

On 2007-09-07 09:25, chibiLegolas wrote:
Even IF med mobs are easier kill with KS, don't forget that it's still draining on rifles. I've tried leveling KS up on bots with grinded 3* and 6* rifles, and I STILL run out of PP. So to say that KS will be over kill is still a stretch. One of the main flaws of KS IS the PP costs. Don't forget.
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif


I second this. Even if you're going to clear out a robot mission, you have to bring at least 10 grinded Brahohs, and you'll likely have to go out and recharge after each Block. It's never going to be a good all-around strategy, and good job to Sega with making sure that was indeed the case.

Besides, it'd be boring just using one PA for the entire game.

[Niloklives]

next they'll make it so ordinary saber strikes flinch enemies on S2..

[panzer_unit]

The SE buff is going to be awesome. I think it benefits non-gunners more; gunners have crossbows and rifles and can status the hell out of anything they want even in S2 missions right now. That won't change. Maybe they'll get their statuses in one or two fewer hits... woot woot. It still takes 40+ seconds to kill a monster with Burn 4.

On the other hand there's a lot of stuff currently on the short end of the stick that will get a needed pick-up...
Wartechers and Fighgunners for example are capped at SE2... their status-dealing abilities are USELESS in S2 missions with a few exceptions. If SE1 would stick semi-reliably on medium monsters it would be a HUGE win for Fortefighter as well, get the shock or dark going to speed up fights and save PP for big guys.
Shotguns are capped at SE2 and of really limited value compared to SE3 crossbows... basically Protransers, and the few situations where you can double-count your bullets.
Grenades will NEVER proc statuses except for Burn the large targets that weapon type is intended to deal with.

[Itsuki]

On 2007-09-06 13:16, Sounomi wrote:
From my friends, I've been told that only Polavohra has STA low enough now to be effected by SE2. Other large ones like Gol Dolva, Svaltus, SEED Vitace weren't effected they say, not yet anyways. However, they are easily effected by SE3 though. SE4 was stated to be redicously easy to land on them as well. We'll have to do more testing but since everyone's essentially spamming the event mission... yeah http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


I'll have to do some more testing, but I recall freezing svalatus and bil de bear with cards. Not the leader bil de bear of course. Seed Vitace I still always pulled out a crossbow or rifle for. But I found with Seed Vitace, it was still usually in my best interested to just use a rifle.

Gol Dolva I really didn't test too much, since usually I just switch to rifle or traps for him aswell. He moves around too much. But either way, only burn is effective on him, so you'd STILL want to use SE3 or SE4 if you have it. Since SE2 burn is kinda bleh.

[Soukosa]

On 2007-09-07 10:30, Itsuki-chan wrote:
I'll have to do some more testing, but I recall freezing svalatus and bil de bear with cards. Not the leader bil de bear of course. Seed Vitace I still always pulled out a crossbow or rifle for. But I found with Seed Vitace, it was still usually in my best interested to just use a rifle.

Gol Dolva I really didn't test too much, since usually I just switch to rifle or traps for him aswell. He moves around too much. But either way, only burn is effective on him, so you'd STILL want to use SE3 or SE4 if you have it. Since SE2 burn is kinda bleh.

When do you more testing, get me http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif We need to determine if they lowered the enemy's STA or if they adjusted the proc rates on the SEs. Easiest way to determine this is to get someone with 21 STA and see if Barta will freeze them.

[Kion]

On 2007-09-07 10:19, panzer_unit wrote:

Wartechers and Fighgunners for example are capped at SE2... their status-dealing abilities are USELESS in S2 missions with a few exceptions.


Foie gets level 2 burn right from the beginning, so a WT can get SE3 with level l1+ from a distance. or by using dam- techs which are all SE 3, just limited on range.

Fighgunners and their poison really pisses me off. Why can't they freaking use burn traps? It costs the same amount and does better and yet they still spam poison every where preventing my from infecting SE4. Anymore attempts to be 'helpful' and apply status may drive me up the wall.

[guise709]

i supose these affects should attach for small parties but not for large parties. Like in diablo2 when there is more people the monsters get stronger. Thats what they should do.

[Niloklives]

On 2007-09-07 21:54, Kion wrote:

On 2007-09-07 10:19, panzer_unit wrote:

Wartechers and Fighgunners for example are capped at SE2... their status-dealing abilities are USELESS in S2 missions with a few exceptions.


Foie gets level 2 burn right from the beginning, so a WT can get SE3 with level l1+ from a distance. or by using dam- techs which are all SE 3, just limited on range.

Fighgunners and their poison really pisses me off. Why can't they freaking use burn traps? It costs the same amount and does better and yet they still spam poison every where preventing my from infecting SE4. Anymore attempts to be 'helpful' and apply status may drive me up the wall.



Hey, I've been anti poison from the start...not all fighgunners are retarded....just most >_>

[Itsuki]

Did some more testing. Tengohg, Poravohra, and Jarba can definately get hit by Level 2. Seed, Svalatus, and Bil de Bear appear immune.

Proc rate doesn't appear to be too much higher if at all. But that'd really need more testing. Which I won't have time for till mid next week.


On 2007-09-07 23:05, guise709 wrote:
i supose these affects should attach for small parties but not for large parties. Like in diablo2 when there is more people the monsters get stronger. Thats what they should do.


There is supposed to be some changes that effect party play. But I think thats mainly just the bonus at the end being bigger the more people are in party.

[Arika]

What I m thinking is, they don't just change the STA, but seem they totally change the way to calculation on SE ?

can any1 test?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Arika on 2007-09-08 01:34 ]</font>

[Niloklives]

I'd the the bonus would be bigger if there were fewer people in the party...

[Soukosa]

My logical guess is that they lowered the STA on the large sized enemies while buffing the SE proc rates slightly past lv 1. I'd wager that the enemies that had 30 STA probably have about 26 now. Really need to make a gunner to gauge it though since techs don't work well with that.


On 2007-09-08 00:36, Itsuki-chan wrote:
Did some more testing. Tengohg, Poravohra, and Jarba can definately get hit by Level 2. Seed, Svalatus, and Bil de Bear appear immune.

I've frozen a Jarba, Tengogh, and SEED Vance so far with the ice card bullet. Failed on SEED Vitace and I do 0 damage to Svaltus http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif (At least high level ones.)

[Shiro_Ryuu]

You know, I just played some Dessert Terror S2 last night and this kind of makes me glad now. Vandas are very murderous with their magic, so its nice to see that they might be easier to silence now. I was mostly worried about burn and infect being easier to land and become broken, but now, I"m relieved because it will be good for things like Silence and Shock, which are more for defensive purposes. But dammit, I haven't seen any fGs who use Ground Shotguns or Rifles on the Vandas, so my SE 2 seems to be the only way until AoI comes and I get SE 3 w/ my xbows.

[amtalx]

On 2007-09-09 06:30, Shiroryuu wrote:
You know, I just played some Dessert Terror S2 last night and this kind of makes me glad now. Vandas are very murderous with their magic, so its nice to see that they might be easier to silence now. I was mostly worried about burn and infect being easier to land and become broken, but now, I"m relieved because it will be good for things like Silence and Shock, which are more for defensive purposes. But dammit, I haven't seen any fGs who use Ground Shotguns or Rifles on the Vandas, so my SE 2 seems to be the only way until AoI comes and I get SE 3 w/ my xbows.



It's usually not worth it to use Silence on Vandas. Yak Riga will give you the opposite element boost and Freeze works better on Vandas since they can't cast when they are frozen anyway. Besides, when they are silenced they just keep backing up until the silence wears off...most annoying. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[F-Gattaca]

Someone please tell me that Grinna Betes are part of this change.

Holy HELL are those guys a pain in the ass solo. I will never mock their slowly moving projectiles ever again.

[Niloklives]

the day twin handguns can infecta svaltus is the day fighgunners become the omniclass

[Hrith]

Fighgunners will have Lv21+ crossbows and single handguns soon enough, you know >_>

[Rett]

On 2007-09-09 10:04, NIloklives wrote:
the day twin handguns can infecta svaltus is the day fighgunners become the omniclass



No thats the day where Guntecher will be the best class to status effect monsters

we get S-rank twin handguns ya know http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Soukosa]

On 2007-09-09 12:33, Hrith wrote:
Fighgunners will have Lv21+ crossbows and single handguns soon enough, you know >_>

And Shadoogs which inflicted SE3 on the beta. Presumably whips will do SE3 as well. Being that the only one that existed on the beta did shock, it wasn't exactly possible to test it at the time.

They probably did these changes so other classes could be decent with these SEs. *waits for the FG fanboys to start whining that AoI makes them useless again*

[Niloklives]

On 2007-09-09 12:58, Rett wrote:

On 2007-09-09 10:04, NIloklives wrote:
the day twin handguns can infecta svaltus is the day fighgunners become the omniclass



No thats the day where Guntecher will be the best class to status effect monsters

we get S-rank twin handguns ya know http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



shame all you need a is a C rank for virus to be effective, huh? even more of a shame Deathmakers +5 are better than Hyper Vipers and +10 beat them all for PP and that ryo-betatores grinded to +10 not only have high pp but exceptional regen. who cares of you have a weapon in S rank? it dpesn't make the SE better.


On 2007-09-09 12:33, Hrith wrote:
Fighgunners will have Lv21+ crossbows and single handguns soon enough, you know >_>



yeah but SE3 virus wasn't enough to infect a large enemy...now you only need S2...that mean the lvl 30 bullets will only translate to more damage in the end...the SE is the screwed up part.

but heck, come AoI FFs will be able to virus stuff...can anyone say "easy mode: enabled"?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-09-09 15:33 ]</font>

[Pillan]

On 2007-09-09 15:28, NIloklives wrote:
shame all you need a is a C rank for virus to be effective, huh? even more of a shame Deathmakers +5 are better than Hyper Vipers and +10 beat them all for PP and that ryo-betatores grinded to +10 not only have high pp but exceptional regen. who cares of you have a weapon in S rank? it dpesn't make the SE better.


Don't forget that Tenora is making A rank twin handguns in AoI. I'd rather grind those than waste time hunting for S ranks. The regen on GRM twin handguns is already too much for how rarely I use them, so I'd love something with even more damage output as twin handguns are primarily a first person damage optimizer.

It would take what? A 14 star GRM twin handgun or unique Kubara (Guld Milla?) to keep up with a 9 star TW +10.

[Niloklives]

thats if you're looking for damage over SE...my point was simply that who gets S ranks doesn't dictate the best user of the gun or who gets the most use of it. In either case I'm eager to see how those work out.

[Pillan]

My mistake. I must either be more asleep/bored/sick than I thought.

Anyway, more on topic, how often does SE 2 hit? Is it often enough to make a shotgun’s effect landing rate on par with a handgun’s for large mobs? Or will it just make fF the fastest solo class in AoI?

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Yeah, I agree w/ Nilok, I mean, who cares if a class gets an S rank at a weapon? You're never even going to attain those S ranks, so it doesn't even matter.

[Hrith]

That SE2 works on some larger monsters does not mean it's an easy to land it.

Gaozoran is vulnerable to Lv2 SEs, but it can take ages to land an SE on those with twin handguns or fans.

I doubt I'll ever resort to Lv2 SE weapons for SE, it will just be a side effect.

I do not like this change, though. It means:
1) we will see even more n00bs using twin handguns 90% of the time
2) those same n00bs will cancel Lv4 Burn with Lv2 Virus, hindering everyone
3) Rifles... Rif- what was that weapon again?

All in all, this update makes the game more n00b-oriented, and further ruins the balance of classes.

[Niloklives]

I have no problem landing SE2 on gaos...but they have 24 STA which is the max possible for SE2 to even land on. the update suggests that STA will be reduced to 20 which is the same most medium mobs have. much easier to land on them.

[CelestialBlade]

I like the update, only thing I would change would be for ST to prevent a lower SE from overwriting a higher SE, period. It'd keep the SE2s from fucking with the SE4s and Traps wouldn't overwrite Rifle/Bow users. It's something that's been needed for a long time, and it will be needed moreso after this update. But overall, I like it.

[F-Gattaca]

On 2007-09-10 03:53, Typheros wrote:
I like the update, only thing I would change would be for ST to prevent a lower SE from overwriting a higher SE, period. It'd keep the SE2s from fucking with the SE4s and Traps wouldn't overwrite Rifle/Bow users. It's something that's been needed for a long time, and it will be needed moreso after this update. But overall, I like it.



Seconded.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Well, like I said earlier, I think its a welcome change for defensive purposes, I mean, Gaozorans really need to be given the silent treatment more often, and also, what's wrong w/ people using Twin Pistols? Maybe they just like using them alot. I mean, people should be allowed to use what they want, unless its something stupid like a Fighgunner meleeing a Jarba or a Wartecher using attack techs on Olgomons or Ageetas. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

But yeah, I agree that this is another step in Sega's direction to make this game easier. =/

[Hrith]

There's nothing wrong with people using twin handguns, there is with people using them 90% of the time.

Twin handguns are weak and have low SE, gunners should be encouraged to use crossbows or shotguns. This update is coaxing players into not getting better.

[panzer_unit]

Gunners need more encouragement to use Crossbows... fast powerful Burn statuses and best direct damage rate isn't enough?

I'm looking forward to soloing more capably as a Fortefighter with the SE buff to make SE1 count for something on medium monsters first, and in AOI having SE2 handgun able to get something going occasionally on large mobs like Polahorvas. Fortegunners are getting full combos on saber and dagger (buten suren-zan anyone?) and to get real mileage out of Spear... it's only fair for it to go the other way with SE's as well.

As long as it's someone else's broken Burn 4 statuses they'll be overwriting, I'll just LOL about twin handgun noobs if they'ree as common and as big a problem as Hrith figures.

[Alisha]

this update is fail whats next they are gonna let hunters knock jarbas across the room with rising strike?

[Para]

Monsters need a EVP boost so that not all races can cheat with gunners.

[panzer_unit]

Maybe I'm just the exception for playing PSU to have quick fun. S2 missions are slow and boring with too few people on the team, and need to lighten up to compensate for the total lack of players on any unpopular route, and the crap drop rates.

If I want hard fights to pad my e-peen, hello Monster Hunter F2.

[Pillan]

On 2007-09-10 08:05, panzer_unit wrote:
Maybe I'm just the exception for playing PSU to have quick fun. S2 missions are slow and boring with too few people on the team, and need to lighten up to compensate for the total lack of players on any unpopular route, and the crap drop rates.

If I want hard fights to pad my e-peen, hello Monster Hunter F2.


I'm with you on this one. I bought this game to play PSO, not a long-drawn out MMO.


And, as we know, it took around 3 hours to do everything on PSO with a decent team, so I'd assume the enemy nerfs won't stop until you can kill enemies at your level in a single PA combo solo with a 9 star 50% weapon.

EDIT:

Adding in 10 more class levels and PA levels, that might actually be the case now...


Another edit:

Oh yeah! I forgot to ask how this nerf effected shield Vahra/Gauzoran/Vanda. They had 50-60 STA before the nerf and were immune to ANY bullet based effect, so can rifles actually tag them now?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-09-10 09:04 ]</font>

[AC9breaker]

One thing I see about this is Acrofighters becoming into gods once AoI drops. Well, either way Im still gonna have fun with the game.

[panzer_unit]

What would make Acrofighters godly? Shadoog SE's? IMO Fortefighters just went over 9000... lv20 handgun skills mean a lot with SE resistance dropping like a rock.

I'm hoping ST follows up the SE buff by rebalancing missions to be equally hard thanks to insane monster counts. It would be like Dynasty Warriors + awesome.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-09-10 12:50 ]</font>

[Pillan]

On 2007-09-10 08:12, Pillan wrote:
Oh yeah! I forgot to ask how this nerf effected shield Vahra/Gauzoran/Vanda. They had 50-60 STA before the nerf and were immune to ANY bullet based effect, so can rifles actually tag them now?


Just asked my friend and found out that SE 2 works on shielded Vahra and Vanda. Unfortunately, she hasn’t fought Gauzoran yet.


As for AF being a god, I could see FG getting the most bonus from it in AoI. Just pulling out a crossbow and freezing the entire room in a couple shots followed up by an AoE PA like Renkai would just turn the game into super-easy mode.

Sure AF has more survivability, but who needs survivability when nothing can attack?

[Soukosa]

On 2007-09-10 03:53, Typheros wrote:
I like the update, only thing I would change would be for ST to prevent a lower SE from overwriting a higher SE, period. It'd keep the SE2s from fucking with the SE4s and Traps wouldn't overwrite Rifle/Bow users. It's something that's been needed for a long time, and it will be needed moreso after this update. But overall, I like it.

They mentioned before they're gonna make it so debuffs won't over right buffs of a higher level. Since buffs and debuffs are essentially SEs, maybe that'll change this as well. Let's hope it will.



On 2007-09-10 12:44, Pillan wrote:

On 2007-09-10 08:12, Pillan wrote:
Oh yeah! I forgot to ask how this nerf effected shield Vahra/Gauzoran/Vanda. They had 50-60 STA before the nerf and were immune to ANY bullet based effect, so can rifles actually tag them now?

Just asked my friend and found out that SE 2 works on shielded Vahra and Vanda. Unfortunately, she hasn’t fought Gauzoran yet.

I demand proof. As far as I can tell, if they did any changes to the proc rates on SEs, it's very minor and wouldn't be able to land on something with 50+ STA. I haven't run into many enemies like that yet with my gunner, but I have yet to land any SEs on one with twins.

[Niloklives]

On 2007-09-10 07:33, Alisha wrote:
this update is fail whats next they are gonna let hunters knock jarbas across the room with rising strike?



seriously...it's ridiculous. i swear this is like that BS difficulty on devil may cry where everything died if you blinked twice which you could only get from dying too much early on.

It was already too easy...why do this? at this point take off all attack resistances and let every attack stagger everything while giving us our ow base stamina of 40 so that megid doesn't effect us, them make defense and mst 1:1 for damage reduction and minimum values on all synths is 50%...they're systematically stripping this game off forms of challenge.

[Alisha]

On 2007-09-10 12:19, panzer_unit wrote:
What would make Acrofighters godly? Shadoog SE's? IMO Fortefighters just went over 9000... lv20 handgun skills mean a lot with SE resistance dropping like a rock.

I'm hoping ST follows up the SE buff by rebalancing missions to be equally hard thanks to insane monster counts. It would be like Dynasty Warriors + awesome.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-09-10 12:50 ]</font>


is it that difficult to see? acrofighters get lvl 30 bullets S-ranbk handguns A-rank cards and a-rank twin handguns as well as Fg level atp.

[Itsuki]

On 2007-09-10 20:12, Soukosa wrote:


Just asked my friend and found out that SE 2 works on shielded Vahra and Vanda. Unfortunately, she hasn’t fought Gauzoran yet.

I demand proof. As far as I can tell, if they did any changes to the proc rates on SEs, it's very minor and wouldn't be able to land on something with 50+ STA. I haven't run into many enemies like that yet with my gunner, but I have yet to land any SEs on one with twins.

I haven't even been able to land SE4s on shield Vahra... before or after the update. Those things have sickeningly high STA.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2007-09-11 10:28 ]</font>

[Xaeris]

Hmm, I guess my beast is staying a fortefighter until AoI then. In theory, PT is a lovely class that pays for its versatility by taking a smack to its ATP. In reality, what the hell is the point of being a melee class with top tier status infliction abilities when the guy spamming his dualies can do nearly the same bloody thing?

Bleh. I really wish ST would hire someone who knows something about game balance. Right now, it seems like the dev team is leveling fighgunners.

[Kion]

Actually, i think this is for balance. Right now gunners have a really unfair advantage as SE4 + shooting = more damage than fortefighter. This makes it fair for the figher classes as now they can do additional damage to their melee attacks with a lower SE. Also I imagine that it will be difficult to stick with SE2, so there's still love for gunners as their bullets will kick in faster and not have to worry about a jaraba only taking 100 damage a tick because the fighgunner in the party tried to be "helpful".

Hopefully they'll be smart and allow for a lower SE to be writen over.

[AC9breaker]

Actually, higher level SE can and does overwrite lower level SE's. The best way to see this is with the Burn SE. I first noticed this when we first got Mad Beasts S2. I would drop Burn G traps on the Gol Dovas then start blasting away with my Bow. I noticed my bow SE would overwrite my Trap SE.

[Uncle_bob]

Haha, wow Sega. What are fortegunners and guntechers for now?

[Uncle_bob]

On 2007-09-10 08:05, Para wrote:
Monsters need a EVP boost so that not all races can cheat with gunners.



lolwut.

Then Fortefighters would miss even more. So then everyone would end up being Fortegunner. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

[amtalx]

This makes SE5 even more important. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[panzer_unit]

yeah an even bigger status for some figh to overwrite or block with a poison trap ... or a jogiri

[CelestialBlade]

On 2007-09-12 21:40, panzer_unit wrote:
yeah an even bigger status for some figh to overwrite or block with a poison trap ... or a jogiri



Exactly why I wish Sega would implement something where a lower SE cannot overwrite a higher SE, ever.

And Poison shouldn't be able to overwrite *anything*. Also anyone who spams Poison Traps should instantly die, and have all their Scapes deleted. Rawr.

[Hrith]

Poison only cancels and prevents burn ;s

That is annoying, though.

But you can cancel (and prevent) poison with virus.

[Pillan]

On 2007-09-11 00:12, Itsuki-chan wrote:

On 2007-09-10 20:12, Soukosa wrote:


Just asked my friend and found out that SE 2 works on shielded Vahra and Vanda. Unfortunately, she hasn’t fought Gauzoran yet.

I demand proof. As far as I can tell, if they did any changes to the proc rates on SEs, it's very minor and wouldn't be able to land on something with 50+ STA. I haven't run into many enemies like that yet with my gunner, but I have yet to land any SEs on one with twins.

I haven't even been able to land SE4s on shield Vahra... before or after the update. Those things have sickeningly high STA.


Oh well? It's not like I did the testing. The information I recieved could be wrong. I'll figure it out for myself if the STA changes come with tomorrow's update, which seems fairly likely.

[panzer_unit]

I thought it was the other way around, that Poison (being a worse DOT for both rate and quantity of damage) would overwrite Virus. I wouldn't know for myself since I only ever use Burn on teams, except for virus against robots.

I like SE's the way they are now, Burn is really powerflu but requires co-operation to really make use of on a team.

[Hrith]

I could make a guide about which SEs cancel and/or prevent others.

Burn cancels freeze.
Freeze cancels burn.

Poison cancels and prevents burn.
Virus cancels and prevents poison.
Virus cancels and prevents burn.

Confuse cancels paralysis.
Paralysis cancels confuse.
Charm cancels and prevents confuse.
Charm cancels and prevents paralysis.

I'll be able to test sleep and other SEs better with the new PAs.

[panzer_unit]

You're wrong about confusion and paralysis... they don't conflict. I saw lots of confused + paralyzed Bysha last time I did Grove of Fanatics, Mahou was spamming razonde for damage while I was doing barada yoga to stop their techs.

[AC9breaker]

I think he ment confuse and Freeze conflict becuase they do. But Panzer is right, confuse and paralysis dont conflict. Silence conflicts with no SE's and Donest cancel out any other SE.

I hope Charm doesn't mess up Confuse. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[panzer_unit]

lol watch it mess up silence... wait, that should be easy to test already. 441's use Chamga left and right

[Niloklives]

I'm 90% sure I've had frozen and confused enemies before...no that I use ice and light in tandem often though

[AC9breaker]

I'm 110 % sure that Freeze and Confuse cancel themselves out. I would make a video but I'm too lazy.

[Touka]

Freeze does indeed cancel out Confuse.

[Hrith]

No, I meant paralysis, not shock.

Gizonde does shock, Nosdiga does paralysis.

Edit: oh, it's very possible I made some mistakes, though, I did that from the back of my head.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Hrith on 2007-09-14 02:01 ]</font>

[drizzle]

Oh, you mean Stun.

[CelestialBlade]

"That shiny thing where you can't move."

[Hrith]

It was called Paralysis in PSO, I have never used Nosdiga or Masei-sou, so I don't know how they call it in-game.

So it's "Stun"?

They're not very consistent with SE names, anyway (cf Virus/Infection).

[AC9breaker]

Yeah I find that rather annoying too. Like Megid death being called Down/Incapacitate

[Niloklives]

you could move when paralyzed in PSO, you just couldn't do anyting but use items aside from that. stun prevents all actions and inputs...far more devastating than paralysis.

[KaffeKane]

I hate Stun. Yet the Svaltus and the Gol Dova hit me with it all the time...I die from Stun more often than I do Megid.

Masei-sou? Is there a bow PA around US/EU that actually does Stun, or is it another "JP onry lolz @ u Amerika luzerz" PA that you trade frags for?

[fireant]

On 2007-09-14 16:04, KaffeKane wrote:
I hate Stun. Yet the Svaltus and the Gol Dova hit me with it all the time...I die from Stun more often than I do Megid.

Masei-sou? Is there a bow PA around US/EU that actually does Stun, or is it another "JP onry lolz @ u Amerika luzerz" PA that you trade frags for?


Yes its the ""JP onry lolz @ u Amerika luzerz" PA that you trade frags for""

In some time all the ranger classes get shadoogs, my understanding is that the earth shadoogs can cause stun.

[Hrith]

On 2007-09-14 14:36, NIloklives wrote:
you could move when paralyzed in PSO, you just couldn't do anyting but use items aside from that. stun prevents all actions and inputs...far more devastating than paralysis.Still, I think the SE I am refering to is the equivalent of PSO's paralysis.

I mean, Freeze did not break when atatcked in PSO, yet it's the "same" SE ;s

Stun to my ears is more the action of flinching monsters (like rifles or Moubu Seiren-zan, etc.)

[Starrz]

In PSO, when you paralyze enemies, it's the same as "stun" in PSU.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-09-15 07:16, Hrith wrote:
Still, I think the SE I am refering to is the equivalent of PSO's paralysis.

I mean, Freeze did not break when atatcked in PSO, yet it's the "same" SE ;s

Stun to my ears is more the action of flinching monsters (like rifles or Moubu Seiren-zan, etc.)


If memory serves, you could run around while shocked or paralyzed in PSO. When monsters were hit with those statuses however it totally immobilized 'em.

PS I miss oldschool Cast character status resistances.

[Niloklives]

seconded...

[panzer_unit]

... or if PSU Casts were immune to Poison, Burn, and Silence like enemy robots. Silence immunity would be an amusing reason to have a Cast techer.

[Hrith]

Casts are not good enough, I suppose >_>

[panzer_unit]

Saving money on antimate would make up for the extra healing you need to do because of crap EVP and MST.

[AC9breaker]

Who needs MST and EVp when you too busy being awesome?

[Soukosa]

Finally managed to do some real testing myself with things. It appears that most large sized enemies now have 24 STA, the same STA as a normal gohmon. Some of them seem to have slightly higher STA from what I've been told but I haven't had a chance to test that yet.

Since there's so many SE experts in here... *looks at the past couple pages of arguing over it* Could one of you tell me if you can land a lv 2 SE on a sworded gohmon (28 STA). Need to know that to help gauge how much STA stuff has now.

[panzer_unit]

Oh yeah, that's true too. I was so busy simultaneously kicking the asses of these two 20' tall babboons in Monster Hunter, with all my elitesauce dives and blocking and rolling between legs... I forgot the half-hearted jog my guy does in PSU is just as good at dodging simultaneous two-shot foie attacks from three Gao's at a time :/

EDIT: where would you run into a Sword Gohmon? Gaozoran have the same STA and buffed ones are really common... I'd have to say either no, or it's at least uncommon enough that I haven't seen it happen yet.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-09-17 13:50 ]</font>

[Hrith]

PSU: Ambition of Killer Shot

RLY.

[Soukosa]

On 2007-09-17 13:33, panzer_unit wrote:
EDIT: where would you run into a Sword Gohmon? Gaozoran have the same STA and buffed ones are really common... I'd have to say either no, or it's at least uncommon enough that I haven't seen it happen yet.

I think every Neudaiz mission with gohmons has at least one spawn with buffed gohmons except mizuraki defense. It just needs to be one with a sword part. The shield part without the cane and boot parts boosts STA greatly while the shield part with those doesn't. Thus shieled Gaos will have much higher STA but gohmons like that won't. Only the sword will increase the STA on them and only slightly to 28.