base on element/ % of wep/ specified PA, shouldn't maylee we

[Shishi-O]

50% ice nightwalkers should definately have SE 3 on a an ultimate/ spiral dance PA on contact the upgraded PA would cost more pp of course.

% and lvl of PA being the damage from SE modifyer.

[Zorafim]

50% weapons should have no status effects, while 10% have a 100% chance of inflicting the highest status of that element.

It's bad enough they get such a ridiculous damage modifier, I don't think they need a status effect as well.

[Sol-Edge]

Are you guys trying to break the game? lol

[Mayu]

wow rofl

Thats stupid -.-

I do about 1k+ Crit Human damage with a 50% Ice claw lol and 600+ normal

a beast can do about 1.2k+

For dus daggas not even going to say how much damage

along with an Axe -.-

wait fuck it

ALL 50% type of weapons do a billion damage

No need to add SE'S unless well yeah it's an S rank of course

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mayu on 2007-09-12 17:19 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mayu on 2007-09-12 17:20 ]</font>

[Shishi-O]

the % just determines amount of damage ( like tp)

but what determines the lvl is the PA lvl

it can also be made xtremely difficult to lvl

also lvls and all attainable achievements should be extremely difficult, and not capped

i could argue and will i guess that the gunners and techer get se's @1-4, i mean are you ****ing serious?

u ever play with gunner/ techers as a fighter?

not to mention the aspect of soloing these other classes are superior in every aspect of damage dealing not even for just SE's but also rate of fire.

i did desert terror with a group of gunners and i gotta tell ya, i barely got to touch anything, hit dimmagolous 1 or twice.

people say ooh the damage a beast FF does, so much...no.

with FG/ PT ticking off 1256 per virus trap, while still shooting for 500+ dmg every second

have u seen a force do nosdigga/ dambarta 900-1000+ damage 4x a second.

who is too powerfull?

hey, allz i'm saying is it would be great if i could use a combe that would at least while fighting hordes, freeaze them/ keep them off me.

if you lookj at bullets, they are 16% contact causing lvl 3 SE

while maylee is 50% with no SE? WTF?!

the math doesn't work out

fighters are gimped

[BanF]

Gimped?

Sorry, it sounds like you just want things easier. Melee weapons are fine with the horrendous amount of damage they can cause, specially S ranks. No change is needed.

[Syl]

Uh besides Dugrega, melee PA's are pretty stupidly easy to level. Try leveling gunner and techer stuff >_>

50% weapons are broken enough, if you say that's gimped I don't want to know your definiton of broken.

Fortegunners only do so much damage because we have to work the hell out of our PA list (what good to a group is a rifle with SE3?). You fF's do mad enough DPS, and with 50%'s, being able to do like 500+ with daggers... yeah, no need to complain...

[Shishi-O]

i have 4 chars pt/ff/ft/fi/fg/gt.

when o play non maylee ff/fi, the game is much easier.

not going for wow factor, going by cost efficiency, damage taken from not having to be right there up close and personal.

BTW fg lvlz bullets hella fast so ya might wanna do that before any other type of gunner.

i solo missions with both fg and ft, quite easily.

this is not an attainable feat by the maylee artists, and notice i said easily with ft/fg.

whats gimped?

could u fg/ft educate these people to how u solo over fighters



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shishi-O on 2007-09-12 17:51 ]</font>

[Xaeris]

On 2007-09-12 17:36, SylviaEspada wrote:
Uh besides Dugrega, melee PA's are pretty stupidly easy to level. Try leveling gunner and techer stuff >_>

50% weapons are broken enough, if you say that's gimped I don't want to know your definiton of broken.

Fortegunners only do so much damage because we have to work the hell out of our PA list (what good to a group is a rifle with SE3?). You fF's do mad enough DPS, and with 50%'s, being able to do like 500+ with daggers... yeah, no need to complain...



Because every melee weapon we attempt to synth will come out 50%, amirite?

[Shishi-O]

moving this thread here killed it.

[pokefiend]

LMAO! Gunners and Techers deal more damage than fighters? Are you crazy? To monsters like tengougs, and zoonas, yes, but that's about it. Even w/ a Har / Quick, Techers are limited to only dealing damage in an inflexible and slow manner. In fact, My lvl 90 female newman, Abby deals more damge w/ her 44% ground Katsunos (lvl 20 renkai) as a WT, than her nosdiga as a FT, against volfus.

My lvl 90 male human, Ryu murders vandas w/ his 44% ice sharp twins (assault crush) as a fighgunner w/ numbers from 650 to 1050 flying every, and yet when he's a Fortegunner not his Beam vulcanic, phantom, deathmakers, or cubo mamba come even close to the amounts his meelee weapons come to.

PS: lvling skills are a joke. It takes only Abby 7 hours to lvl Dus Daggus from 1 to 20... It took my Abby at least 40 hours to lvl her dark shot from 1-21.

PSS: if you wanna be more productive against Dimm, omna, or DF, change your class from FF or Fig to either WT or PT. Longbows are a fighter's friend.


On 2007-09-12 18:23, Shishi-O wrote:
moving this thread here killed it.


You should be relieved...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: pokefiend on 2007-09-12 19:10 ]</font>

[biggabertha]

Those of us who are fighters know what we can and can't do though. Personally, I don't think there's any need to have any extra effects for melee type attacks. We already have awesome skill PAs to destroy our opponents and nobody else can match our damage when it comes to enemies with multiple hit points and we are able to attack un-interrupted. (Adahna Deghana being an excellent example, nobody can deal faster damage to it than a fighter with a powerful skill PA that hits two both bottom and centre parts of the boss.)

As for Gunners getting easier solo games, fair enough, I understand your pain to some extent except when it comes down to the nitty gritty. Seriously, gunners don't have any sheer satisfaction from sending enemies hurling across the room at a constant rate with EVERY weapon that they can use. Melee types however, are able to do this with ease. There are only a few weapons and specific PAs that a gunner can resort to for knocking enemies around or suppressing them and if they're immune to those Status effects, you're SOL.

Techers may have fantastic times solo and their damage output is staggeringly impressive but they can't take a hit, bosses are also prime examples where TECHNIC type users do not fare so well as melee or gunners simply because their TECHNICs can only hit one target on the same creature across all of their spells. Or you can just screen killer bosses you know, since it's SO versatile.

I've also noticed you don't play as a Wartecher, why's that? They are able to perform all three forms of attack and while Status Effects are useful, they are not mandatory and just make the game run that little bit faster.

Be proud that you own a 50% weapon but please don't think, even for one second that this gargantuan task (yeah, I just watched Kill Bill Vol. 2) of achieving a 50% weapon deserves the precariously balanced melee types to be over-whelmingly powerful.


Ah sod it, seeing as how Protransers have the same level cap as a Fortefighter or a Fortegunner, you could easily break game mechanics by being this class and having a full arsenal of 50% weapons. Why even bother being either of the other classes when the whole place is under SE lockdown from both your ranged AND melee weapons? Sure, there's the statistical disadvantage but the versatility of melee, ranged AND traps all rolled into one will somehow make Protransers ridiculously too powerful.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: biggabertha on 2007-09-13 00:30 ]</font>

[amtalx]

Use a frying pan. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

If you want SE, use a Xbow. You have access to them for a reason. Putting SE3 on melee weapons is silly.

[CelestialBlade]

I can't even hope to compare to the DPS of a good Fortefighter. That's the advantage they get for having to go up close to an enemy to cause damage, I think it's a fair balance.

My Crossbow may be incredible DPS, but it's not going to compare to Dus Daggas or Anga Dugrega/Redda, nor do I expect it to. I understand my place.

[amtalx]

On 2007-09-13 05:28, Typheros wrote:
I can't even hope to compare to the DPS of a good Fortefighter. That's the advantage they get for having to go up close to an enemy to cause damage, I think it's a fair balance.

My Crossbow may be incredible DPS, but it's not going to compare to Dus Daggas or Anga Dugrega/Redda, nor do I expect it to. I understand my place.



Don't count yourself out yet. I don't know if you are a GT or a fG, but if you are a fG (Cast), its pretty easy to outdamage a fF if they dont have top notch weaponry. Anything out of the 40-50% range and the ground starts to even out fast if you are using Zagenga. Also, don't forget spamming Burn tears down any mob faster than anything a fF can do. Multishotting is also pretty deadly. Get all buffed up, and you'll be ripping multipoint creatures for 3500+ per shot.

[Mayu]

800 800 700 700 900 900 900

or

1200 1200 1000 1000 1300 1300 1300

human damage with Dus Daggas Normal and crit <.<

I'm sure a beast or a cast can do More

[Neith]

Gunners beat the hell out of fF's in terms of damage, in my opinion- especially Fortegunners.

My friend online does 600 a shot with a rifle, and when you add in the SE application (which connects a hell of a lot), you can't possibly match that with a Fortefighter. Fortefighter can hit harder in a single hit (not counting SE ticks from burn/virus), but I don't believe a fighter can match the damage output of a high level Gunner with decent bullets/equips. If they could, it'd have to be relying on 44-50% weapons, which fighters aren't exactly rolling in.

I don't mind though, I can still deal crazy damage. Unless a monster has multiple parts though, I can't hope to match his 600 a shot, without 50% weapons.

[CelestialBlade]

On 2007-09-13 06:30, amtalx wrote:

On 2007-09-13 05:28, Typheros wrote:
I can't even hope to compare to the DPS of a good Fortefighter. That's the advantage they get for having to go up close to an enemy to cause damage, I think it's a fair balance.

My Crossbow may be incredible DPS, but it's not going to compare to Dus Daggas or Anga Dugrega/Redda, nor do I expect it to. I understand my place.



Don't count yourself out yet. I don't know if you are a GT or a fG, but if you are a fG (Cast), its pretty easy to outdamage a fF if they dont have top notch weaponry. Anything out of the 40-50% range and the ground starts to even out fast if you are using Zagenga. Also, don't forget spamming Burn tears down any mob faster than anything a fF can do. Multishotting is also pretty deadly. Get all buffed up, and you'll be ripping multipoint creatures for 3500+ per shot.



Ah, I don't have Zagenga yet so I can't speak for that yet. I have high hopes for it though, considering my level 30 Megiga does ~400/bullet on my Newearl GT. But I've seen fFs with 40-50% weapons outdamage that.

SEs on the other hand, yes, that is our strong point and a fT can't even outdamage Burn 4 on a high-HP enemy. But for SE4 we also have the flaw of having to actually apply it, so there's balance in there.

Also don't forget how we can't hit multiple enemy parts.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Typheros on 2007-09-13 07:48 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-09-12 17:32, Shishi-O wrote:
the % just determines amount of damage ( like tp)

but what determines the lvl is the PA lvl

it can also be made xtremely difficult to lvl

also lvls and all attainable achievements should be extremely difficult, and not capped

i could argue and will i guess that the gunners and techer get se's @1-4, i mean are you ****ing serious?

u ever play with gunner/ techers as a fighter?

not to mention the aspect of soloing these other classes are superior in every aspect of damage dealing not even for just SE's but also rate of fire.

i did desert terror with a group of gunners and i gotta tell ya, i barely got to touch anything, hit dimmagolous 1 or twice.

people say ooh the damage a beast FF does, so much...no.

with FG/ PT ticking off 1256 per virus trap, while still shooting for 500+ dmg every second

have u seen a force do nosdigga/ dambarta 900-1000+ damage 4x a second.

who is too powerfull?

hey, allz i'm saying is it would be great if i could use a combe that would at least while fighting hordes, freeaze them/ keep them off me.

if you lookj at bullets, they are 16% contact causing lvl 3 SE

while maylee is 50% with no SE? WTF?!

the math doesn't work out

fighters are gimped



Maybe you should, I don't know, FIGHT BETTER?

Seriously! I crank out Tornado Break damage that holds even with Nosdiga/Dambarta damage, or Burn 4 and the rifle bullets that cause it... and my gear's not even that good. 20+% Gigush+10 with the set, 20+% axes, 20+% twin claws etc. I do probably 2000~4000 damage per move depending on weapon, element, and PA. I get one of those in the time it takes a Tech to cast, two per tick of Burn damage.

Without touching PP, I can rapid-fire basic knuckle attacks for 2x300 to one target, or swing a sword for 400 on three.

[amtalx]

On 2007-09-13 07:47, Typheros wrote:
Also don't forget how we can't hit multiple enemy parts.



We can with Shotguns. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[CelestialBlade]

On 2007-09-13 09:09, amtalx wrote:

On 2007-09-13 07:47, Typheros wrote:
Also don't forget how we can't hit multiple enemy parts.



We can with Shotguns. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



Did they increase the splash damage range per bullet on those since I last used them, or something? I couldn't hit both parts of a Kamatoze or a Polavohra with just one Shotgun bullet.

Whips and Slicers in AoI will solve this problem, at least.

[Shishi-O]

On 2007-09-13 07:33, UrikoBB3 wrote:
Gunners beat the hell out of fF's in terms of damage, in my opinion- especially Fortegunners.

My friend online does 600 a shot with a rifle, and when you add in the SE application (which connects a hell of a lot), you can't possibly match that with a Fortefighter. Fortefighter can hit harder in a single hit (not counting SE ticks from burn/virus), but I don't believe a fighter can match the damage output of a high level Gunner with decent bullets/equips. If they could, it'd have to be relying on 44-50% weapons, which fighters aren't exactly rolling in.

I don't mind though, I can still deal crazy damage. Unless a monster has multiple parts though, I can't hope to match his 600 a shot, without 50% weapons.

at least you see my point. it is a thing. and noticeable at that.

as a FG i poison everything and move on, virus and move on. repositioning myself the whole time not being touched, soloing s2 missions.

my fighter is powerful, i hit big numbers...but the other monsters then get me.

[amtalx]

On 2007-09-13 09:12, Typheros wrote:

On 2007-09-13 09:09, amtalx wrote:

On 2007-09-13 07:47, Typheros wrote:
Also don't forget how we can't hit multiple enemy parts.



We can with Shotguns. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



Did they increase the splash damage range per bullet on those since I last used them, or something? I couldn't hit both parts of a Kamatoze or a Polavohra with just one Shotgun bullet.

Whips and Slicers in AoI will solve this problem, at least.



I don't think anything has been changed, just make sure you stand in the right place. Shotguns are actually my main method of dealing with Polavohras. If you point yourself at their shoulder you should be able to land all 5 bullets on the head and body points. With a good equip and buffs, this is good for about 1800-1900 per shot. Throw in a Burn G when the mob spawns and you'll be taking out Polavorhas faster than fighters and techers despite the bullet resistance.

[Shishi-O]

On 2007-09-13 08:20, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-09-12 17:32, Shishi-O wrote:
the % just determines amount of damage ( like tp)

but what determines the lvl is the PA lvl

it can also be made xtremely difficult to lvl

also lvls and all attainable achievements should be extremely difficult, and not capped

i could argue and will i guess that the gunners and techer get se's @1-4, i mean are you ****ing serious?

u ever play with gunner/ techers as a fighter?

not to mention the aspect of soloing these other classes are superior in every aspect of damage dealing not even for just SE's but also rate of fire.

i did desert terror with a group of gunners and i gotta tell ya, i barely got to touch anything, hit dimmagolous 1 or twice.

people say ooh the damage a beast FF does, so much...no.

with FG/ PT ticking off 1256 per virus trap, while still shooting for 500+ dmg every second

have u seen a force do nosdigga/ dambarta 900-1000+ damage 4x a second.

who is too powerfull?

hey, allz i'm saying is it would be great if i could use a combe that would at least while fighting hordes, freeaze them/ keep them off me.

if you lookj at bullets, they are 16% contact causing lvl 3 SE

while maylee is 50% with no SE? WTF?!

the math doesn't work out

fighters are gimped



Maybe you should, I don't know, FIGHT BETTER?

Seriously! I crank out Tornado Break damage that holds even with Nosdiga/Dambarta damage, or Burn 4 and the rifle bullets that cause it... and my gear's not even that good. 20+% Gigush+10 with the set, 20+% axes, 20+% twin claws etc. I do probably 2000~4000 damage per move depending on weapon, element, and PA. I get one of those in the time it takes a Tech to cast, two per tick of Burn damage.

Without touching PP, I can rapid-fire basic knuckle attacks for 2x300 to one target, or swing a sword for 400 on three.

fight better, such a thing to say...

in a crowd of enemies i do 25k + of damage with my reg combo, this thread isn't about my fighting ability

it is about the direct application of se by maylee artists

[panzer_unit]

What statuses are there?

There's tick damage, which is covered already... Fighters hit harder (and don't scale down for low-HP monsters) except on a handful of monsters that are actually worth mentioning. What everyone forgets in these constant and retarded "gunners are broken" arguments is that each monster can have ONE DOT going at a time. Doesn't matter if you have 1 gunner or a whole team spamming burn4, the damage they're doing by SE is totally limited to time.

The rest all incapacitate enemies... shock / silence / confuse / freeze, right? Melee PA's incapacitate ... the effect doesn't last as long but it's on an attack you're spamming for damage anyway. It connects 100% of the time, and it works regardless of weapon ele.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-09-13 10:30 ]</font>

[CelestialBlade]

On 2007-09-13 09:57, amtalx wrote:

On 2007-09-13 09:12, Typheros wrote:

On 2007-09-13 09:09, amtalx wrote:

On 2007-09-13 07:47, Typheros wrote:
Also don't forget how we can't hit multiple enemy parts.



We can with Shotguns. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



Did they increase the splash damage range per bullet on those since I last used them, or something? I couldn't hit both parts of a Kamatoze or a Polavohra with just one Shotgun bullet.

Whips and Slicers in AoI will solve this problem, at least.



I don't think anything has been changed, just make sure you stand in the right place. Shotguns are actually my main method of dealing with Polavohras. If you point yourself at their shoulder you should be able to land all 5 bullets on the head and body points. With a good equip and buffs, this is good for about 1800-1900 per shot. Throw in a Burn G when the mob spawns and you'll be taking out Polavorhas faster than fighters and techers despite the bullet resistance.



So that's a potential 10 shots all at once to a Polavohra/Kamatoze/Kog Nadd/Drua Gohra....very interesting. I may have to pick up a Shotgun again and give this a shot.

[panzer_unit]

I think if you just open fire on the thing from a slight distance SOME of your bullets that fall between targets are going to get double-counted, right?

[Pillan]

Gunners should deal 2000 damage per shot with mechs, fighters should get random SE levels on all their weapons, and Techers should get block-sized range techs that deal 1000 to every enemy, even before it spawns.

I mean, ST is making the game easier with each update anyway, so why don't we go back to the PSO system?

[chibiLegolas]

I only support SE (SE2 maxed) on melee weapons as an added special from RARE weapons (like S ranks, but could just as well be other rares of any ranks). And ONLY when using NORMAL attacks. I thought this could be a way to encourage normal melee combos along with other AoI tweaks. And give Hunters a choice, to deal direct damage through PA's. Or conserve with normal combos with a low/med chance of applying SE1 or SE2 to enemies.

And it's hardly gonna unbalance the game if sega would only apply this to rare/unique weapons.

[panzer_unit]

I want a 100% success incapacitate effect that goes off if I knock a monsters HP to 0

[amtalx]

On 2007-09-13 11:48, panzer_unit wrote:
I think if you just open fire on the thing from a slight distance SOME of your bullets that fall between targets are going to get double-counted, right?



Yes, this is true. This is probably the best way to go if you are fighting Lvl 100+ Polavohra without solid Lightning armor. Their charge and stomp can be pretty brutal...

[amtalx]

On 2007-09-13 11:38, Typheros wrote:

So that's a potential 10 shots all at once to a Polavohra/Kamatoze/Kog Nadd/Drua Gohra....very interesting. I may have to pick up a Shotgun again and give this a shot.



I recommend Shotguns for Polavohras, but I would stick with Grenade Launchers for everything else though. The reason for that is Polavohras are the only enemy from that list that isn’t vulnerable to throwback. They can only be flipped with launch. You may be able to get away with Shotguns on a Kog Nadd though. Kog Nadds and Polavohras move at about the same speed and don’t have any particularly lethal attacks. Kamatozes and Drua Gohras, on the other hand, have Dambarta and that triple Foie move respectably. Since you can get stun locked by both of those moves, getting up close and personal can be too dangerous. It’s better to keep them laid out with a Grenade Launcher so the fighters can get down to business without fear of reprisal. Besides, Grenade Launchers still have good DPS and SE3 as a bonus. Of course if you’re a GT none of this matters haha.

[Hrith]

Shotguns are good for Polavohras because they are only vulnerable to technic damage.

For Drua Gohra, Kog Nadd and others, use melee weapons =/

[Shishi-O]

i should be more specific,

SE per wep % and damage at that % per lvl of PA, meaning it doesn't tick of damage, but does the additional damage of the SE.

and the SE itself be it freeze( ice) or stun( ground) or megid( dark- wich would remove xtra life per hit with a chance of kill) it would hit and SE immediately

FG's with killer shot, plz admit that it is broken,

[amtalx]

On 2007-09-14 21:06, Shishi-O wrote:

FG's with killer shot, plz admit that it is broken,



It's cracked, but not broken. Unless you are shooting at an enemy with really low STA (bots,) you can almost always kill it faster with opposite element on a high DPS weapons like Xbows or Shotguns. Don't forget that the PP cost is prohibitively high, even for fGs. There's a reason nobody spams it.

[Kion]

On 2007-09-13 08:20, panzer_unit wrote:
Maybe you should, I don't know, FIGHT BETTER?

rofls http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

with melee SE, i think that it's a better idea to have the SE dependent on the weapon being used. Like the fuka freezing enemies, or jogiri with causing poison. Melee weapons are meant to be sticks you bash enemies with to do damage. a weapon having SE on it may be beneficial and more reason to hunt the weapon. having SE on everything for no reason would be the definition of broken.

Gunners have SE, techers have support and wide AoE attack techs, and hunters keep mobs busy to allow to help the other two. Every one has a niche and the game is about workign together, not having one class that does everything. If you still want to be a fighter and want SE, then become a fighgunner and spam poison traps.

Also if you look at the "Even more love for gunners thread", down to SE2 will be able to affect large monsters. So it may not be as much damage as SE4, but considdering FF does more damage per hit, applying SE2 should balance the damage that FG gets from SE4 + hit damage.

[amtalx]

On 2007-09-15 11:18, Kion wrote:
If you still want to be a fighter and want SE, then become a fighgunner and spam poison traps.



FFFFAAAAAAAIIIIILLLLL!!!!!

[panzer_unit]

It's what they do, amtalx.