PSU-XBox 360: Fighgunner vs. Fortegunner

[BTDEEZ]

ok its everyones favorite robot DEEZ anyways right now i was wondering if it would be worth being a fG or a FG because i love my rifles but i just started to notice that my evil twins do way more damage over all and i was wondering if i should go fighgunner to do better damage by the way i'm lvl 72 any help would be greatly appreciated

[-Crokar-]

longtime fighgunner short time fortegunner. both are good in different places. its all about your own playstyle. this will prolly turn into a war on classes.

[ashley50]

Guntecher?

[Hrith]

WAR ON CLASSES!

[amtalx]

If you like Twins, just go with fG. You'll end up doing more damage with them that way.

[Gen2000]

fG do more damage with Twins than FiGs because of their higher level bullet cap they access to better element bonus. Also you may want to try out the Phantom Line combo before ruling out Rifles completely.

[Hrith]

If your twin handguns do "way more damage" than your rifles, you're doing something wrong. Rifles and twin handguns have close DPS values, but rifles have more range and SE4.

If you like twin handguns, stay Fighgunner, because that is the only job for which twin handguns are good weapons. Twin handguns are awful on Fortegunner, don't waste your energy.

[amtalx]

Keep in mind that for a class that can use guns, FG ATA is laughable. Hrith is right that Twins aren't particularly useful on a fG, but when you make it into the higher echelon of S2s those Twins are going to be doughnut factories as a FG.

Personally, I don't really like Twins to begin with but if you want to use both a Rifle and Twins...your choice is pretty much made already.

[Hrith]

As a Fighgunner, twin handguns are awesome on monsters that resist melee.

[panzer_unit]

Being able to shoot on the move is a useful feature, even for Fortegunners. On the other hand I'd rather use ANY of the single handed guns however... Handguns have SE3 for faster and better statuses, Mechs have crazy damage output, Crossbows have both but with a lot less reach.

[Pillan]

If you really want to use twin handguns and rifles, I’d say go with Fortegunner or Guntecher, as either does significantly more twin handgun damage than Fighgunner just because of the 10 level gap.

Also, twin handguns are quite a bit more damage than rifles when you’re considering the same weapon rank just because you get 3 twin handgun bullets of slightly lower damage for every 2 rifle bullets. Of course, Phantom + Phantomline break this pattern, but you have to remember that the combo is basically the equivalent of a 13 star rifle. And, with the upcoming ATP buff to all classes, twin handguns will have even more of a comparative advantage to rifles just because they’re far more dependent on base stats.

Don’t forget both are fairly weak weapons that really aren’t that great for general use. You’d be better off with machineguns, crossbows, card, or shotguns in any situation, aside from high flying mobs (airborne Tengohg/Junsugun can be shot with any gun, so don’t switch to rifles unless you’re knocking it down; also cards work fine on all fliers) or bosses, and then it’s just extra damage vs. extra range.

[SolomonGrundy]

I disagree that twins are not usefull for fortegunners. The mobility is a big plus.


For bosses, I'd rather have rifle range. For most enemies I'd rather have mobility. The exception to this might be shielded enemies, whose high DFP value make rifles a better selection for gunners.

[usmcbama]

Bullet LV 21+ opposite element damage (24%) coupled with the added mobility makes for decent DPS with less risk of getting clobbered. I only started using twins as a FG, but now I'm using them as a fG to get them to 21+, so I'll have a little bit of an elemental advantage when the FG bullet LV caps are raised for AotI. I've only ever used rifles for SE4 on big mobs or to abuse robots. Generally, I prefer twins and mechs, so I guess I'll go career FG (not to mention the melee possibilities), but I find them useful as a fG as well.

[panzer_unit]

Fortefighters should get access to shotguns as an A-rank. That would be bad-ass awesome even if your damage output was on par with a pillowfight.

EDIT: I spent a lot of time waffling between Fortegunner and Fighgunner... the way I look at it, I'd spend a lot of time wielding mechgun-and-dagger with either job. Going outside of that:
Fortegunner has virus trap and rifle SE, grenade knockback/SE, and laser range DPS.
Fighgunner PA combos and access to a boatload of melee weapons.

If Fortegunner had lv20 melee skills there wouldn't have been any debate, I'd be all over that. If Fighgunner had any particularly sexy guns, that would have been an automatic sale. In the end I went with Protranser who has to go handgun+saber instead of my preferred mech+dagger combo, but DOES have the complete range of heavy range firepower and melee skills.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-09-19 12:22 ]</font>

[Hrith]

lol, that would be so funny.

[Neith]

On 2007-09-19 11:58, panzer_unit wrote:
Fortefighters should get access to shotguns as an A-rank.



http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif Point-blanking everything with 1000ATP? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[panzer_unit]

Yeah, it only shoots 3 bullets but they're BIG bullets.

Functionally, punking stuff (preferrably double-counting all your hits) with a shotgun fits Ff's combat style and allows them to deal with melee-resistant targets with some degree of awesomeness. Being able to whip out SE2 effects plus yellow debuffs and charm would be a huge benefit.

Maybe I'll write a petition... too bad I've got no clue what my login is for the official forums :'(

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-09-19 13:32 ]</font>

[Uncle_bob]

Fortefighters with shotguns? That's fucking stupid; it would be like giving Fortegunners access to A-rank axes. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_nono.gif

Fortegunner and Fighgunner are too different to compare the way I see it. Fighgunners are more melee oriented, but using twin handguns and mechguns when the situation requires it. Fortegunners are more for spamming SE's with crossbows and shotguns, and for hitting the big guys with level 4 Burn or Virus.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-09-19 19:33, Uncle_bob wrote:
Fortefighters with shotguns? That's fucking stupid; it would be like giving Fortegunners access to A-rank axes. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_nono.gif


Yeah a shotgun with level 10 bullet caps... 3 bullets, like 140% ATP, 4% ele. That's SO as good as getting access to axes. In moronland.

[Uncle_bob]

Shotguns are the ranger's version of the axe. Fortefighters don't need a shotgun, Fortegunners don't need an axe.

[SolomonGrundy]

Giving a fortegunner an axe is like living in South Dakota. Even if you did it, you're still kind of a retard.

That's got to be insulting to someone.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-09-20 12:28 ]</font>

[amtalx]

Giving hunters Shotguns is stupid because they would get 4 Bullets in AoI. fGs only having one more bullet than a fF on one of the most damaging fG weapons is broke city. Not to mention they are ForteFIGHTERS and Shotguns are a heavy weapon. Change to Protranser or play Extra Mode.

[panzer_unit]

Seriously guys, go get bent.

lv10 shotgun bullet: 3 hits @ 140% * 105% ele = 441% ATP total ... this would be Fortefighter in PSU
lv 20 shotgun bullet: 4 hits @ 150% * 109% ele = 654% ATP total ... and Fortefighter in AOI
lv 30 shotgun bullet: 5 hits @ 170% * 113% ele = 965% ATP total ... here's Fortegunner in PSU
lv 40 shotgun bullet: 5 hits @ 190% * 117% ele = 1111% ATP total ... and Fortegunner in AOI (guessing)

... OH NOES FORTEFIGHTER HITS HALF AS HARD, THEYLL STEAL UR JOBS!!!!111 Of course, that's for any Fortegunner who actually uses shotguns. Everyone says crossbows are better across the board... rate of damage, status level, mobility, etc.

Why suggest shotguns for Fortefighter AT ALL? Style mostly, and the convenience of having a gun with better PP capacity than a freaking handgun. Using a handgun every time you need to shoot is freaking monotonous.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-09-20 07:57 ]</font>

[amtalx]

These numbers are all well and good, but you forgot one thing…fG and fF don’t have the same ATP mod… With the numbers you have presented, it just calculates the mods base on Lvl x number of bullets. It doesn’t actually say anything about the class differences, so that could be applied to every class in the game.

fF has a 20% higher ATP mod. And I'm not sure but, I don’t think the Lvl 20 elemental mod in the update is 109% (used for the second calculation). Another reason fF shouldn’t have Shotguns is SE. fF should NOT be able to spam SE across an entire mob. If you want SE, change to FG or PT.

I’m not worried about fF stealing my job. My main point is it doesn’t make sense. Sure, a fG will do more damage with a Shotgun. But if “the intended class will always do more damage” is your reasoning. Why don’t you just give every class access to all weapons, and restrict weapons intended for other classes to Lvl 10?

[Hrith]

The only way crossbow can have a better DPS than shotgun is by comparing a Lv30 crossbow PA with a Lv20 shotgun PA, lol.

[panzer_unit]

... it's 9% element, but that's a bonus on total ATP, so you do 109% damage. I wrote it that way so some knob doesn't multiply all the values by 9% and tell me my math's crap. Sure Fortefighter has a higher base ATP than Fortegunner, but it amounts to like 100 more base ATP out of 650-700? Don't forget Fortefighter's awesome ATA and shotguns losing a large fixed amount of damage from each bullet on high-level enemy DFP.
As a _high_ ballpark guess, I'd think a Fortefighter might count as half a Fortegunner for actual damage if given a shotgun. I've got my doubts that they would even be able to outdo their own melee damage against melee-resistant enemies... but it would be better than a handgun and doesn't involve popping photon charges like candy.

Meanwhile Fortegunner DOES get solid melee power in AOI with 20-hit Buten Suren-zan and 280% ATP Spinning Strike... Fortefighter is still stuck with SE2 handgun. They deserve a decent shake when they run into robots or worms, melee resistant enemies etc.

I'd _love_ to see every class get like C-rank weapons (if any exist) and level 10 skills minimum for every category. We can already flip from class to class cheaply and use whatever specific weapons/skills we want, it would be good to be able to use some of our expensive PA frag skills and stuff outside of proper context.

Anyway that's all wishful thinking.

On topic: melee's going to become a much bigger advantage for classes that can do it in AOI... PA damage looks like it's going through the roof, with Just Attack crits on top of that, and then you're recharging PP on every hit so you never have to stop. Fortegunner is going to be VERY glad of the lv20 melee skill cap... sure the damage won't be quite as good as a fighgunner or even a transer, but they're not getting totally left out of the fun and enjoying the blinging new abilities on laser in the meanwhile.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-09-20 13:38 ]</font>

[BTDEEZ]

wow i want to thank everyone for their comments now you guys probably see what i'm going through in my mind see on one side i have my precious rifles and 4 bullets to lvl 21 (still working on killer shot) then on the other hand i got my duel daggers at 21 and saber 21 and anything one handed 11 so now all thats left is to decide what is more fun for me plus the reason i became a cast was to stay out of the fight and away from damage so i'm leaning towards fortegunner but you never know but once again thanks to everyone for their brillant comments had me thinking about the numbers

[Pillan]

Don't forget you always have the option of doing both. In AoI they're supposed to be adding a system that allows you to store photon arts, so you won't have to worry about the 36 total limit. Just get all the rifle and twin handgun bullets you want and fill the rest up with everything you think you'll want to use as each class.

Then switch to fG when you want to use the rifles and switch to FG when you want to use your twin daggers.

Honestly, I plan to do FG and GT as soon as the PA storage system is added. It will be time consuming to get so many PAs to 40 as GT alone, but I'm in no rush.

[BTDEEZ]

and also i want to be a fG now because this whole time i didnt know i could use a rank spears now i'm gonna be running around like i'm straight out of 300 i die for sparta anyways now i have something that can mess those komotose up or at least make it easier for me

[panzer_unit]

LOL! Messing a kamatoze up with lv10 dus daggas. You'll be a champ at the "die for sparta" part.

What are your skill levels? If they're pretty high on handgun and shotgun, maybe you should grab some force levels and do Protranser. In AOI they're going to be top-tier gunners, and they've got a good selection of melee weapons and skills on top of that.

[Masou]

first time i switch from forte to figh, i hated figh.
2nd time i switched from forte to figh, i <3 figh.
besides, in AOI fighgunners get level 30 bullets, and 40 striking.
so im going with figh for now, i'll switch back depending on my mood.