A sane SKill PA guide.

[SolomonGrundy]

Hello Folks. I was wondering if anyone here would be interested in putting together a guide that more accurately depicts skills so hunters can make better choices.

This guide would list true damage modifiers for each part of the combo, timing needed for each part of the combo, and attack area (narrow, 90 degress, 180, 360 degrees) - and reach, if any (for example, Bogga Robado moves you a little forward with the first part of the combo).

If any of you have already one this, just post a link. I am a wikki contributor, and will try to update the wikki without breaking the tables.

[Kion]

Sounds like a good idea. Th applications of PA's, the effects they have and the situations in which they're most effective. Would act as a great guide for people trying to decide and allow people to contribute.

It might also be a good idea to do it for all PA's. There are a few like barta, lasers cannons, spender crush and zoldial that are more or less dubbed 'useless' but have perfectly useful applications and even amazing during certain situations.

[Chaobo99]

hmm,well all I can say is..
Hishou Jiren-zan for the twin dagger art has a great damage modifier and effect. the Damage goes like:(damage x 2 x 3 + damage x 2 x 3 + damage x 2 x 5).Prefferably used on stable creatures with 2 or 3 points because regular mobs are sent out of range on the 1st combo or so.In this move your stationed where you do the move, and when the first combo is initiated the mobs are sent flying..unless you miss the last move :/ out of your reach.

The ultimate twin claw art(forgot name) does really great damage.The first move moves you forward.The second move sends you in the air and the last move does a burrow and an air thrust so damage would be...(damage x 2 or 3 monsters x 3 + damage x 2 or 3 monsters x 3 + damage x 2 or 3 monsters x 4(this part has good damage mod.)

I did'nt detail it too well...but yea :3



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chaobo99 on 2007-09-25 16:24 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

You want something like this?

Tornado Break
1) half-step forward, 360 swing, 3x1 hits
2) half-step forward, 360 swing, 3x1 hits @ PA+500 ATP (e.g. +100 damage)
3) half-step forward, 360 swing, 4x1 hits @ PA+1000 ATP (e.g. +200 damage)

Spinning Break
1) 2 steps forward (w/ each swing), linear attack, 2x2 hits
2) 1 step forward, linear attack, 2x1 hits @ +1000 ATP (e.g. +200 damage)*
3) 2 steps forward (w/ each swing), cone attack, 3x2 hits
* if memory serves

Bogga Danga
1) 2 half-steps forward, cone attack, 2x3 hits
2) 1 half-step forward, wide attack, 2x2 hits @ +500 ATP
3 roll) step forward, wide attack, 3x1 hits @ +1000 ATP
3 dive) leap, 360 attack, 3x1 hits @ +1000 ATP

Bogga Zubba
charge delay, ~3 steps forward, wide attack, 2x4 hits

... I'm not totally sure about the damage modifiers on axe attacks, someone come back and correct me. As a note about per-move damage modifiers, I suspect they formula is [(((base + weapon) * PA) + per-move mod) * element]
Tornado Break and Bogga Danga very clearly do an extra 100 extra damage from move to move (+500 and +1000 ATP over base respectively) for non-elemental damage, and if I use a proper element weapon that increase goes up by whatever factor.

Anga Durega
1) step forward, wide attack, 2x1 hits
2) leap, 360 attack, 2x1 hits @ +2000 ATP*
3) 2 half-steps forward, wide attack, 2x2 hits @ +1000 ATP*
*lowest guess for ATP modifier

Anga Redda
1) wide attack, 2x2 hits
2) wide attack, 2x2 hits @ +1000 ATP*
3) wide attack, 2x1 hits @ +2000 ATP*
*lowest guess for ATP modifier

[SolomonGrundy]

Doesn't spinning break hit 3 targets on it's first swing?

[panzer_unit]

I've only ever seen it hit 2... and that's attacking Stateria and crap where I can generally nail 3 targets on the final move.

Statistically, hitting 3 targets would be broken too.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-09-26 12:20 ]</font>

[Hrith]

Use that ;o
http://psupedia.info/Skills

[panzer_unit]

Use that for what? PSUPedia doesn't list anything for per-move movement or damage. It makes a difference, knowing if the last move on a combo is going to deal an extra 50, 100, or even 200 HP per hit can make a big difference on choosing to get a PA or not.

It especially matters if you're looking at a low-ATP race/class combination, because damage bonuses are another means of closing the gap with more-optimal fighters.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-09-26 14:04 ]</font>

[SolomonGrundy]

It especially matters if you're looking at a low-ATP race/class combination, because damage bonuses are another means of closing the gap with more-optimal fighters.

wait, are you sure about this part?

Also, can you (or someone else) check the number of targets on spinning break? test it on a small enemy swarm like aggeta, so you can pack a bunch of them in a small area. this could affect which PA I buy - I was really counting on that 3x2 for the first move...

[Pillan]

I'm pretty sure the later moves on the PA are just a different multiplier of your total ATP, rather than a simple addition. If you want to check your theory, try the later moves of the combo on a lower level or higher level character.

And, last time I checked, the first move of Spinning Break only hit 2 targets, but the last time I checked was March-ish...

[panzer_unit]

All I have to do is bounce between Protranser and Fortefighter. Huge change in ATP ... I'm switching classes the moment I ding 21 on my last shotgun skill. I'll post some examples then.

[SolomonGrundy]

it's just that the wikki says it hits 3, and has for a long while. then agian, it had the usage cost wrong on the first twin claw skill, so maybe that's not the best source.

Also, it might add straight damage, not straight ATP. If it added ATP this would be affected by shifta, so you could mease the effect before and after quite easily.

If it is a change in the damage modifier, then we should be able to modify the value my using low atp weapons. If the exra damage stays consistent at +100, then it seems likely it is a straight damage bonus.

[panzer_unit]

It's not a perfectly straight damage bonus. It's modified by element for sure.

I didn't think to check it with/without agatride, my guess would be that additional damage would get boosted by that too. It was subtle enough to fool me at lower ATP levels, but as a 90/10 Fortefighter the attacks that used to deal like 2x my base damage are doing 1.5x at best.

I got the skill levels I was after as Fortegunner, almost all the new PA's I'm getting are melee so I can start looking into this stuff as a PT or Ff

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-09-27 06:52 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

OK. Fortefighter now. Testing damage modifiers:
Tornado break... 700 / 800 / 900 ele w/ rides - 570 / 650 / 740 24% ele - 400 / 490 / 530 non-ele
Spinning break... 750 / 1000 / 800 ele w/ rides - 650 / 800 / 700 24% ele - 480 / 650 / 510 non-ele
Bogga danga ... 500 / 650 / 800 ele w/ rides - 390 / 500 / 610 22% ele - 290 / 380 / 450 non-ele
Anga Redda ... 810 / 950 / 1550 ele w/ rides - 750 / 900 / 1300 20% ele - 570 / 710 / 1150 non-ele
Anga Durega ... 880 / 1300 / 1050 ele w/ rides - 850 / 1100 / 950 20% ele - 650 / 950 / 750 non-ele
Renzan Seidan-ga ... 310 / 400 / 675 non-ele w/ rides - 270 / 350 / 575 non-ele

arg. its late and I dont want to do the math right now. it was hard enough getting a feel for average numbers, melee hits vary pretty widely.

[SolomonGrundy]

I did some testing of spinning break, and confirmed number of hits for st and second move. I'm pretty pitterly dissapointed in this PA. High cost, low number of hits...

@ 4 more pp, per use, it's almost better to use tornado break 2x, fore a fortefighter.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[panzer_unit]

I'd heavily suggest ignoring my numbers, I just grabbed a bunch of random weapons and beat stuff up in S-rank plains missions for a while... now that I'm thinking about it the test isn't nearly rigorous enough, I should have taken the same non-elemental gear (just some 8* shop knuckles) and compared Fortefighter vs Protranser to start.

BTW lv1 Gravity Break hits for 1000 non-elemental for me.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-09-28 08:13 ]</font>

[LS_Aksion]

*Jaw drops on floor o.O

[SolomonGrundy]

well, basically...it has to. for that amount of PP, to only hit enemy (even if it hits 2 times), it has to hit hard.

problem is..where is this skill applicable? I'm thinking high DFP enemies, but there really are none - there are only enemies with 1/2 guard, and bosses. Bosses have a lot of hit locations, so you'd want a PA like gravity strike.

I dunno, I'm just...looking for reasons to spend more than 1K on any skill. Bogga Robado, and Renzan Seidan-ga make the cut - they heap hits on 1 enemy.

Tornado dance and bogga zubba (for non figunners) do too: they move with the launching, to follow enemies that tend to flall away.

and just to show I'm not a total naysayer, I think the ultimate dagger PA looks good,..real good. Same hits as buten, but starts off with a spin.

[Pillan]

On 2007-09-28 15:56, SolomonGrundy wrote:
and just to show I'm not a total naysayer, I think the ultimate dagger PA looks good,..real good. Same hits as buten, but starts off with a spin.


Speaking of that, I just got it to 11.

Despite its appearance, the first move is not an AoE attack and only hits enemies 180 degrees around you (like level 1-10 Dambarta range). Also you jump backwards before the spin dash and don't spin forward enough to hit the enemy you target (I managed to hit the enemy I knocked over in the first move once...). The first move is all around better than Buten when dealing with 2 enemies, but the second only works when completely surrounded or dealing with fast enemies (they run into the second move while trying to dodge...). The second move is around 10% more powerful than the first, which is pretty weak considering it also has less hits and misses most of the time. Both moves are faster than Buten.

Personally, I'd say it's an unnecessary PA and Buten is more useful in general, but I love single daggers and I love Sonic, so it's a win for me.


On the other hand, I’m enjoying Spinning Strike. The PA mod increases by around 1.5x on the second move and the jump kick looks really cool on top of sending you flying forward. It is significantly slower than the 2 saber PAs though (around the speed of Spinning Break) and the 1 target thing can get annoying.

[SolomonGrundy]

wait, spinning strike is slower than rising strike? You mean the start up time, right? because during the PA is looks to hit very fast.

how do the costs compare to rising strike and buten? (for the dagger PA)

[Pillan]

On 2007-09-28 18:31, SolomonGrundy wrote:
wait, spinning strike is slower than rising strike? You mean the start up time, right? because during the PA is looks to hit very fast.


I'm getting the full Rising Strike in about 2 seconds and the full Spinning Strike in around 3. Spinning has a slower start up and longer delay between each hit.


On 2007-09-28 18:31, SolomonGrundy wrote:
how do the costs compare to rising strike and buten? (for the dagger PA)


20 PP.

[panzer_unit]

The slow start and short reach on Spinning Break can be a big problem for catching enemies. Once you nail something with the knockdown however, it's all good.

The single-target moves are great from an efficiency standpoint for me. I hate seeing half or more of my potential damage evaporate 'cause I only have one target. In particular, I've been leveling all of my new PA's by using Jabroga as a breaking shot against groups of monsters, then running over to the most isolated one and owning hell out of it with one of the new single target PA.

... heh, I noticed that my Daggac recharges 7pp/tick as a fortefighter. I can only spam a weak non-elemental buten, but I can do it all day long lol.

[SolomonGrundy]

I'm likely to use the heavy hitters on enemies that tend not to run. Or on enemies like distova who tend not to group.

My concern would be interruption.

[panzer_unit]

Yeah, the single-target PA's are pretty interruptible. In PSU melee I've always been a fan of divide-and-conquer ... now there are some ridiculous moves to use for the conquering part.