KaffeKane
Sep 27, 2007, 07:03 PM
Here's my take on Fortegunner as a Beast, and I don't care who else thinks otherwise about it. If you have flamebait to post, whatever. This guide might also be usable for Fortegunners in general, just improvise to your strengths and weaknesses.
Information has been extended somewhat due to recent findings and input on this thread. Thanks to pokechief, Xaeris, and especially Shadow_Wing.
Constructive criticisms are appreciated.
This is also the second time that I've ever posted a guide anwhere, so I'm not sure how well I did.
EDIT: There, hopefully that'll be easier to read.
-----------------
Shield Line:
Pick GRM or Tenora ones.
GRM has decent EVP and best MST of the lot.
Tenora has the best EVP, but at the same time, the worst DFP and MST ratings, so you'll want to have something to fix that problem. Get them with good percentages to reduce damage when you do get hit, and MST raising units to further offset TECHNIC damage from enemies.
Seeing as you're a Beast, go with Head, Arm, and Body units, at the very best, two out of those three at the very least. Extra Slot on a line is fine, but they don't serve a lot of purpose to anyone except CASTs.
GRM and Tenora ones are also Gunner/Fortegunner optimal in some cases, like weapon combos. :3
Units:
Head -- Any Mind series one, but the higher the better. You want tech damage to be as low as possible for when you get hit by them, and Gunner MST, especially Fortegunner, is not as great as a Techer type.
Arm -- If you really want to hit a teeny bit more often, use a Hit Unit. If you want a little extra damage, use a Power Unit.
Shadow_Wing recommends a Power Unit, and I'll vouch on that as well, although the thought of a Beast Fortegunner with a Solid / Power - S kinda scares me. >_>
Body -- Until the system changes come over here in US/EU, a goodly percented shield line with Mega / Rainbow is alright, but when the changes come, you'll want a Legs unit. Guard Units aren't worth a Gunner's time, since they're not supposed to be taking meele hits, anyway.
Blocking is the Gunner's friend, and with Just Counter allowing bullets to be used, it just makes it a bit nicer.
Weapons: I cannot make my own recommendations here other than go for the highest stats that you can with the weapons that you prefer. There are FAR TOO MANY arguments about what weapons are better than which, and it's all just opinion and preference, I say.
Shadow_Wing recommends high DPS weapons, like Dual Handguns, Shotguns, and Crossbows, and I would like to second that recommendation. The purpose of Rifles is to stick SEs on enemies, or play at a really long distance. The above recommended three can all out-damage the Rifle.
UPDATE: Rifles, I just found out a bit ago, when the Bullet Arts are leveled up to 31+, also gain knockdown. This could very well mean a revival (for myself at least) of a weapon that I had not much love of using aside of against bosses.
(Hrith also mentions that Dual Handguns are a newbie's way out...chiefly the reasoning that I see behind that is because their range doesn't match up to a Rifle. >_> ~~ <_<)
Grenade Launchers and Laser Cannons have, or will eventually, have their place, so don't rule them completely out of using them. Beast Fortegunners might want to steer away from Grenade Launchers, though. The ATA from those weapons is not very high.
Grind weapons if necessary. Do so after the system changes if you're afraid of losing your weapons before that momentous event.
Grinding makes your weapons stronger attack-wise, allowing for more damage, and helps add valuable PP to the maximum of the weapon, which lets you use your guns longer, for those cases in which you do miss a few shots.
Items: Carry healing consumables, buff items, and traps, traps, tuh-RAPS! Traps are useful for those big, annoying enemies that would otherwise waste your PP magazine. I recommend G-Traps, even if they cost a bit more, because they can hit multiple areas of larger enemies, they have a better SE than the regular traps, and are easier to hit enemies with in S and S2 missions, if you're daring enough to run into the crowd for a few moments.
Buff items are for soloing, or the stingy techer that dun wanna buff you. :3
Kinds of Traps to carry: I already said G-Traps over regular, but this a bit of an extension. Sometimes (I say sometimes, not everyone has this problem, especially if they've got their rifles leveled for it) it's really tough, if not impossible, to proc an SE on a large enemy without traps.
Burn AND Virus -- You'll want both, these are the strongest DoTs.
Virus lasts longer and does more than Burn throughout it's duration, and can also stack with Freeze to halt certain enemies in place, while Burn has a shorter duration, but can do more overall damage if maintained consistently. The only problem is that you can't freeze enemies while they're on fire, so if you're Burning Jarbas you still have to beware of Megid... <_<
Freeze, Confuse, Shock -- Depending on what you're using them on, and how frequently, these can also be useful to carry.
--Confuse turns mobs into a Jerry Springer episode for a few seconds, leaving some of the heat of battle off of you and your comrades in order to change plans on the fly. Enemies will also hurt each other, too, and every little bit of numbers can be a plus. :3
--Freeze traps are for the bunch that don't carry Rifles and still want to hold down a large monster or two, or maybe it allows you the time you need to put your Rifle with Frozen Shot into your Action Palette so that you don't need to further rely on the trap. Regardless, they can still be an indispensible strategic, if used correctly.
--Shock traps. Oh my god, how many people use lighting bullets? I want a show of hands. Anyone? Now you see why these might be useful. Not everyone's going to have lightning bullets (myself included but that'll change after AotI, keeping our current skill levels and being able to swap PAs as needed :3 ), and Shock helps out against meele/attack-based enemies a TON. Got problems with enemies on Parum playing punching bag with everybody? Shock 'em and turn the tide! It's really too bad that Shock doesn't help on Neudaiz or Moatoob very much... D:
--Silence, while it might seem better for Neudaiz and Moatoob, is still not very useful, because most of the enemies that you'll really want to use them on are immune to Silence, and Freeze works with more stopping power anyway. I already looked it up.
PAs:
Bullets
I don't recommend Killer Shot. It's too expensive in PA Frags cost and PP cost.
It's mainly used for missions that have enemies with low STA, like small enemies (impractical), and robots (since they're resistant to bullets).
Since there's a couple people that scream Killer Shot is mandatory, there's bound to be other Fortegunners that already have it, and I see its possession by more than one in a party as redundant, myself.
Plus, Killer Shot IMO is rude. It's a kill-stealer on robot missions before anyone else can tag.
As a Fortegunner, you will most likely be using Rifles somewhere down the line, so for Rifles, get all the element bullets. Why? For SE4 at 21+. >_>
If you want Killer Shot as well, I don't hold it against people, I just think that enough people have it already. :3
I just heard from Ace that Twin Penetration is not worth the buy. At level 1 it has 60% ATP. I know he's saying 'ew' about it, but the overall DPS of it is probably raised if used in the right spots. Turning dualies into an impromptu Laser Cannon, however, is not my bag anyway. I don't recommend this one, either, but to each their own. :3
If you really want to do DPS on a line, get a Laser Cannon and a Prism PA or two. AoI's giving the Laser Cannons a little extra kick to them, too.
I bought Mayalee Hit some time ago, and got it to level 28 in five days. Believe me, this PA isn't as horrible as some people make it out to be, it's only preference. Just stick it on some grinded Rayratores, and you won't be needing to use your mates for healing as often, if at all. It also has an AoE to it, so it can hit two areas at once, like a pair of small enemies close together, or parts of a boss in likewise fashion. Crea Handgun in a PA, anyone? :3 I'm wondering just how much the HP recovery for this bullet's gonna be at 31+.
UPDATE: Handguns don't get SE4 at 31+ like I had hoped for, but the stats for Mayalee Shot are still tolerable enough for me to want to hang onto this PA, and possibly with either Tenora or Yohmei A-Rank handguns. GRM A-Rank guns are a bit overdone for my liking now, because they were the only ones available in the original PSU.
Oh yah...there's another set of bullets that I have to mention. Twin Mayalee, Barada Maga, and Yak Maga. Now, why do you think that I'd take the trouble to list these?
[list:c21db490e5]First off, not all Techers debuff, if any still do at all.
Second off, you might be soloing, and want a little extra assistance alongside of your buff items.
Third, you might be in a party with no techer at all.
Fourth, at 11+, the bullets have level 2 debuff ability. This currently exceeds a Guntecher's debuffing power, and matches a Wartecher's. In the case of Yak Maga and Twin Mayalee, however, they get level 3 debuffs at 21+, which rivals a Fortetecher.
Fifth, the debuff SE will always proc on enemies if they're not immune to it, making it worth your while to spread your shots out with Yak Maga and Barada Maga, to hit as many as possible and debuff them.
Sixth, Barada Maga can be very helpful to Beast Gunner-types in general, because it decreases enemy ATA, allowing you to block more of their attack, and decreases their EVP, making your shots miss even less than they would normally. Shadow_Wing says they don't miss very often, but I say the potential to close the gap is very nice. :3 I don't have this PA yet, cause I haven't been using shotties lately (and I don't have the PA frags for it, sue me >_> ), but I really recommend this one if you're a Beast Gunner.
[/list:u:c21db490e5]
Meele
You WILL need meele PA's if you're using crossbows, mechguns(maybe >_> ), or handguns, especially if you're soloing.
Rising Strike and Buten-Shuren Zan are nice for a quick escape, and Buten will be even nicer when the system update (and 20 Skill cap for Fortegunner) comes around. :3
The new Saber and Dagger PAs that came around recently are like MAGIC. Spinning Strike's damage is crazy, nearly rendering Rising Strike obselete for a PA to use. Stick with Rising Strike if you can't afford the PA frags for Spinning Strike, at least until you can afford Spinning Strike.
Hikai Shuha-zan is nice, too. It starts a teeny bit slower than Buten Shuren-zan, but from what I hear, it's not as easy to get knocked out of, and it levels really fast for a PA frag traded skill. I even found a little testimony that would make it extra-useful when Fortegunner gets 20 skills.
On 2007-09-29 01:32, Xaeris wrote:
I love Hikai. At first, I didn't appreciate the second step, but when I saw how to make the damn thing work, I made it my business to work on using it on command. The idea is to use the first step so that the last hit (the knockdown) lands just behind your intended target. When you go into the spin dash, ideally, you'll roll backwards into the enemy's back, thus using it as an impromptu wall to keep you from moving back.
Troublesome, but worth it; that launch is no joke.
Another set of Meele PAs to consider are Spears, but your best bet is to be using those if you feel like there is a mission where your guns are going to run out, even in a party. Every extra person in a team helps, so don't run for the recharge cube and shop NPC until the fighting's over. Dus Majarra can also be a fun one to play with at 11+, too.
Other than this, I think preference of weapons and situation to apply PAs in are up to your own sense of judgement.
Extra guides to look at:
Bullseye! (Talk about Ranger here!) (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=120501&forum=22&212)
Shotguns: Did you know? (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=128122&forum=22&8)
Flinching 101: Key for rangers (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=129804&forum=22&3)
---------------
So...comments anyone?
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KaffeKane on 2007-09-29 18:53 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KaffeKane on 2007-09-30 08:38 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KaffeKane on 2008-04-26 06:15 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KaffeKane on 2008-04-28 06:52 ]</font>
Information has been extended somewhat due to recent findings and input on this thread. Thanks to pokechief, Xaeris, and especially Shadow_Wing.
Constructive criticisms are appreciated.
This is also the second time that I've ever posted a guide anwhere, so I'm not sure how well I did.
EDIT: There, hopefully that'll be easier to read.
-----------------
Shield Line:
Pick GRM or Tenora ones.
GRM has decent EVP and best MST of the lot.
Tenora has the best EVP, but at the same time, the worst DFP and MST ratings, so you'll want to have something to fix that problem. Get them with good percentages to reduce damage when you do get hit, and MST raising units to further offset TECHNIC damage from enemies.
Seeing as you're a Beast, go with Head, Arm, and Body units, at the very best, two out of those three at the very least. Extra Slot on a line is fine, but they don't serve a lot of purpose to anyone except CASTs.
GRM and Tenora ones are also Gunner/Fortegunner optimal in some cases, like weapon combos. :3
Units:
Head -- Any Mind series one, but the higher the better. You want tech damage to be as low as possible for when you get hit by them, and Gunner MST, especially Fortegunner, is not as great as a Techer type.
Arm -- If you really want to hit a teeny bit more often, use a Hit Unit. If you want a little extra damage, use a Power Unit.
Shadow_Wing recommends a Power Unit, and I'll vouch on that as well, although the thought of a Beast Fortegunner with a Solid / Power - S kinda scares me. >_>
Body -- Until the system changes come over here in US/EU, a goodly percented shield line with Mega / Rainbow is alright, but when the changes come, you'll want a Legs unit. Guard Units aren't worth a Gunner's time, since they're not supposed to be taking meele hits, anyway.
Blocking is the Gunner's friend, and with Just Counter allowing bullets to be used, it just makes it a bit nicer.
Weapons: I cannot make my own recommendations here other than go for the highest stats that you can with the weapons that you prefer. There are FAR TOO MANY arguments about what weapons are better than which, and it's all just opinion and preference, I say.
Shadow_Wing recommends high DPS weapons, like Dual Handguns, Shotguns, and Crossbows, and I would like to second that recommendation. The purpose of Rifles is to stick SEs on enemies, or play at a really long distance. The above recommended three can all out-damage the Rifle.
UPDATE: Rifles, I just found out a bit ago, when the Bullet Arts are leveled up to 31+, also gain knockdown. This could very well mean a revival (for myself at least) of a weapon that I had not much love of using aside of against bosses.
(Hrith also mentions that Dual Handguns are a newbie's way out...chiefly the reasoning that I see behind that is because their range doesn't match up to a Rifle. >_> ~~ <_<)
Grenade Launchers and Laser Cannons have, or will eventually, have their place, so don't rule them completely out of using them. Beast Fortegunners might want to steer away from Grenade Launchers, though. The ATA from those weapons is not very high.
Grind weapons if necessary. Do so after the system changes if you're afraid of losing your weapons before that momentous event.
Grinding makes your weapons stronger attack-wise, allowing for more damage, and helps add valuable PP to the maximum of the weapon, which lets you use your guns longer, for those cases in which you do miss a few shots.
Items: Carry healing consumables, buff items, and traps, traps, tuh-RAPS! Traps are useful for those big, annoying enemies that would otherwise waste your PP magazine. I recommend G-Traps, even if they cost a bit more, because they can hit multiple areas of larger enemies, they have a better SE than the regular traps, and are easier to hit enemies with in S and S2 missions, if you're daring enough to run into the crowd for a few moments.
Buff items are for soloing, or the stingy techer that dun wanna buff you. :3
Kinds of Traps to carry: I already said G-Traps over regular, but this a bit of an extension. Sometimes (I say sometimes, not everyone has this problem, especially if they've got their rifles leveled for it) it's really tough, if not impossible, to proc an SE on a large enemy without traps.
Burn AND Virus -- You'll want both, these are the strongest DoTs.
Virus lasts longer and does more than Burn throughout it's duration, and can also stack with Freeze to halt certain enemies in place, while Burn has a shorter duration, but can do more overall damage if maintained consistently. The only problem is that you can't freeze enemies while they're on fire, so if you're Burning Jarbas you still have to beware of Megid... <_<
Freeze, Confuse, Shock -- Depending on what you're using them on, and how frequently, these can also be useful to carry.
--Confuse turns mobs into a Jerry Springer episode for a few seconds, leaving some of the heat of battle off of you and your comrades in order to change plans on the fly. Enemies will also hurt each other, too, and every little bit of numbers can be a plus. :3
--Freeze traps are for the bunch that don't carry Rifles and still want to hold down a large monster or two, or maybe it allows you the time you need to put your Rifle with Frozen Shot into your Action Palette so that you don't need to further rely on the trap. Regardless, they can still be an indispensible strategic, if used correctly.
--Shock traps. Oh my god, how many people use lighting bullets? I want a show of hands. Anyone? Now you see why these might be useful. Not everyone's going to have lightning bullets (myself included but that'll change after AotI, keeping our current skill levels and being able to swap PAs as needed :3 ), and Shock helps out against meele/attack-based enemies a TON. Got problems with enemies on Parum playing punching bag with everybody? Shock 'em and turn the tide! It's really too bad that Shock doesn't help on Neudaiz or Moatoob very much... D:
--Silence, while it might seem better for Neudaiz and Moatoob, is still not very useful, because most of the enemies that you'll really want to use them on are immune to Silence, and Freeze works with more stopping power anyway. I already looked it up.
PAs:
Bullets
I don't recommend Killer Shot. It's too expensive in PA Frags cost and PP cost.
It's mainly used for missions that have enemies with low STA, like small enemies (impractical), and robots (since they're resistant to bullets).
Since there's a couple people that scream Killer Shot is mandatory, there's bound to be other Fortegunners that already have it, and I see its possession by more than one in a party as redundant, myself.
Plus, Killer Shot IMO is rude. It's a kill-stealer on robot missions before anyone else can tag.
As a Fortegunner, you will most likely be using Rifles somewhere down the line, so for Rifles, get all the element bullets. Why? For SE4 at 21+. >_>
If you want Killer Shot as well, I don't hold it against people, I just think that enough people have it already. :3
I just heard from Ace that Twin Penetration is not worth the buy. At level 1 it has 60% ATP. I know he's saying 'ew' about it, but the overall DPS of it is probably raised if used in the right spots. Turning dualies into an impromptu Laser Cannon, however, is not my bag anyway. I don't recommend this one, either, but to each their own. :3
If you really want to do DPS on a line, get a Laser Cannon and a Prism PA or two. AoI's giving the Laser Cannons a little extra kick to them, too.
I bought Mayalee Hit some time ago, and got it to level 28 in five days. Believe me, this PA isn't as horrible as some people make it out to be, it's only preference. Just stick it on some grinded Rayratores, and you won't be needing to use your mates for healing as often, if at all. It also has an AoE to it, so it can hit two areas at once, like a pair of small enemies close together, or parts of a boss in likewise fashion. Crea Handgun in a PA, anyone? :3 I'm wondering just how much the HP recovery for this bullet's gonna be at 31+.
UPDATE: Handguns don't get SE4 at 31+ like I had hoped for, but the stats for Mayalee Shot are still tolerable enough for me to want to hang onto this PA, and possibly with either Tenora or Yohmei A-Rank handguns. GRM A-Rank guns are a bit overdone for my liking now, because they were the only ones available in the original PSU.
Oh yah...there's another set of bullets that I have to mention. Twin Mayalee, Barada Maga, and Yak Maga. Now, why do you think that I'd take the trouble to list these?
[list:c21db490e5]First off, not all Techers debuff, if any still do at all.
Second off, you might be soloing, and want a little extra assistance alongside of your buff items.
Third, you might be in a party with no techer at all.
Fourth, at 11+, the bullets have level 2 debuff ability. This currently exceeds a Guntecher's debuffing power, and matches a Wartecher's. In the case of Yak Maga and Twin Mayalee, however, they get level 3 debuffs at 21+, which rivals a Fortetecher.
Fifth, the debuff SE will always proc on enemies if they're not immune to it, making it worth your while to spread your shots out with Yak Maga and Barada Maga, to hit as many as possible and debuff them.
Sixth, Barada Maga can be very helpful to Beast Gunner-types in general, because it decreases enemy ATA, allowing you to block more of their attack, and decreases their EVP, making your shots miss even less than they would normally. Shadow_Wing says they don't miss very often, but I say the potential to close the gap is very nice. :3 I don't have this PA yet, cause I haven't been using shotties lately (and I don't have the PA frags for it, sue me >_> ), but I really recommend this one if you're a Beast Gunner.
[/list:u:c21db490e5]
Meele
You WILL need meele PA's if you're using crossbows, mechguns(maybe >_> ), or handguns, especially if you're soloing.
Rising Strike and Buten-Shuren Zan are nice for a quick escape, and Buten will be even nicer when the system update (and 20 Skill cap for Fortegunner) comes around. :3
The new Saber and Dagger PAs that came around recently are like MAGIC. Spinning Strike's damage is crazy, nearly rendering Rising Strike obselete for a PA to use. Stick with Rising Strike if you can't afford the PA frags for Spinning Strike, at least until you can afford Spinning Strike.
Hikai Shuha-zan is nice, too. It starts a teeny bit slower than Buten Shuren-zan, but from what I hear, it's not as easy to get knocked out of, and it levels really fast for a PA frag traded skill. I even found a little testimony that would make it extra-useful when Fortegunner gets 20 skills.
On 2007-09-29 01:32, Xaeris wrote:
I love Hikai. At first, I didn't appreciate the second step, but when I saw how to make the damn thing work, I made it my business to work on using it on command. The idea is to use the first step so that the last hit (the knockdown) lands just behind your intended target. When you go into the spin dash, ideally, you'll roll backwards into the enemy's back, thus using it as an impromptu wall to keep you from moving back.
Troublesome, but worth it; that launch is no joke.
Another set of Meele PAs to consider are Spears, but your best bet is to be using those if you feel like there is a mission where your guns are going to run out, even in a party. Every extra person in a team helps, so don't run for the recharge cube and shop NPC until the fighting's over. Dus Majarra can also be a fun one to play with at 11+, too.
Other than this, I think preference of weapons and situation to apply PAs in are up to your own sense of judgement.
Extra guides to look at:
Bullseye! (Talk about Ranger here!) (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=120501&forum=22&212)
Shotguns: Did you know? (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=128122&forum=22&8)
Flinching 101: Key for rangers (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=129804&forum=22&3)
---------------
So...comments anyone?
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KaffeKane on 2007-09-29 18:53 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KaffeKane on 2007-09-30 08:38 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KaffeKane on 2008-04-26 06:15 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KaffeKane on 2008-04-28 06:52 ]</font>