Acrofighter question

[panzer_unit]

While it looks like aF favors Human / Newm for race (high EVP, TP-based Shadoogs) it's only got Sabers and Claws as its highest-ATP weaponry where optimally those races would to focus on high-ATP elemental weapons to close the overall power gap with Casts and Beasts as much as possible.

If I was being optimistic, I'd say you could go either the high-offense or high-evasion route with an Acrofighter and they're both very different and powerful. Or I can say that this is a job where you're looking really good on one side or the other, Humans and Beasts maybe come closest.

[Starrz]

Heh. "Acrofighter question" but no question in your post.

IMO Beasts will be the best at this class.

[Soukosa]

Why would beast be the best? Human has more ATA, TP, DFP, EVP, MST, and STA (yes, human has 1 extra STA over the other races thanks to the strong racial bonus) than a beast with this class. AF isn't meant to be a strong hitting class but probably more of a tank that can also make use of SEs. The slightly less ATP that a human would have compared to a beast could easily be made up with mastery of Just Attack and Just Counter. Just Attack should be even easier to do on an AF if they have the same attack speed increase that AT does.

[Xaeris]

An extra...STA? Dang, that's a crazy racial bonus.

[panzer_unit]

I suggested beast because they've got much better ATP, which makes a bigger difference with all those low-ATP weapon classes. They don't have _worst_ TP or EVP either, which are also important to the class.

[Pillan]

On 2007-10-04 13:46, Soukosa wrote:
Why would beast be the best? Human has more ATA, TP, DFP, EVP, MST, and STA (yes, human has 1 extra STA over the other races thanks to the strong racial bonus) than a beast with this class. AF isn't meant to be a strong hitting class but probably more of a tank that can also make use of SEs. The slightly less ATP that a human would have compared to a beast could easily be made up with mastery of Just Attack and Just Counter. Just Attack should be even easier to do on an AF if they have the same attack speed increase that AT does.


It’s one of those “define best” issues.

Beasts always have more than enough HP to make up for the DFP difference with Casts, so they’re fine there. And, of course, since the class can’t use any low accuracy weapons and has an ATA mod higher than FG, you can’t possibly hope to argue that evens them out. Plus a Beast can spam Just Attack just as easily as a human, so why is that in the argument?

If you’re still arguing Shadoogs are just there for SE, the only advantage that really matters is EVP. I don’t think anyone has to argue constant strings of Just Attack PA spam is much better than sitting around waiting for you to get attacked for a chance to attempt a Just Counter.

So if you’re saying the best is “the one who makes the most of the stats” then humans beat everyone easily as AF, AT, and every other partial class (and then they get a bonus). But if all you care about is damage/time, how can you argue anyone is better at melee damage than a Beast? (Aside from Double Sabers, Swords, and Axes, but AF can’t use any of those…)


Also, do humans now have more ATP than the same gender of Cast on that class? Just curious there, as the JP wiki hasn’t been updated.

[VanHalen]

I remember awhile back the stats of that class was posted, it shown that a Human had more DFP and ATP(I think) than a CAST AF. The difference was pretty small like their difference now.

[Pillan]

On 2007-10-04 15:34, VanHalen wrote:
I remember awhile back the stats of that class was posted, it shown that a Human had more DFP and ATP(I think) than a CAST AF. The difference was pretty small like their difference now.


The previous stats showed human male had more ATP than Cast female, meaning Cast had insignificantly more ATP. Also humans had more DFP than Beasts, not Casts. That's why I'm wondering if it changed at all.

[VanHalen]

Ah ok thanks for clearing that up. Sorry for the misinformation.

I want to know also since I'm going to try Acrofighter on my Newman.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VanHalen on 2007-10-04 15:45 ]</font>

[Pillan]

The JP wiki just got updated with Cast female and human male AF at level 110 and class 15. Human male has 6 more ATP than Cast female, so they do what? 3-4 extra damage with Spinning Strike or the slicer PA?

Also Cast female has 32 more HP (just barely enough for Cast HP > human MST at neutral), 33 more ATA, 32 more DFP, but a lot less TP (-551), 207 less EVP, and 60 less MST. Of course it isn't a very fair comparison because it's male to female (meaning the DFP gap is exaggerated and the other gaps are smaller than they should be).

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-10-04 15:57 ]</font>

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I'm sure that Humans and Newmans would still be the best Acrofighters, although I wouldn't bash CAST or Beast Acrofighters either. Humans are well balanced at ATP, TP, and EVP which are the most important stats for the class, and maybe ATA, but Humans aren't so bad at it, and Newmans have the 2nd best ATA and the best TP, so they'll obviously be the best Shadoog users while still being mediocre [at worst] at melee.

As for Shadoogs being there for SE, well, the same can be for Gunners, yet people are saying that ATP is important for Gunners, thus considering Newmans the worst at the class and Beasts, the class w/ the worst ATA as a class that can be on par w/ CASTs. What I'm trying to say is, maybe Shadoogs can provide some extra damage as well with their shots, as well as some SEs.

[Starrz]

On 2007-10-04 14:58, Pillan wrote:

On 2007-10-04 13:46, Soukosa wrote:
Why would beast be the best? Human has more ATA, TP, DFP, EVP, MST, and STA (yes, human has 1 extra STA over the other races thanks to the strong racial bonus) than a beast with this class. AF isn't meant to be a strong hitting class but probably more of a tank that can also make use of SEs. The slightly less ATP that a human would have compared to a beast could easily be made up with mastery of Just Attack and Just Counter. Just Attack should be even easier to do on an AF if they have the same attack speed increase that AT does.


It’s one of those “define best” issues.

Beasts always have more than enough HP to make up for the DFP difference with Casts, so they’re fine there. And, of course, since the class can’t use any low accuracy weapons and has an ATA mod higher than FG, you can’t possibly hope to argue that evens them out. Plus a Beast can spam Just Attack just as easily as a human, so why is that in the argument?

If you’re still arguing Shadoogs are just there for SE, the only advantage that really matters is EVP. I don’t think anyone has to argue constant strings of Just Attack PA spam is much better than sitting around waiting for you to get attacked for a chance to attempt a Just Counter.

So if you’re saying the best is “the one who makes the most of the stats” then humans beat everyone easily as AF, AT, and every other partial class (and then they get a bonus). But if all you care about is damage/time, how can you argue anyone is better at melee damage than a Beast? (Aside from Double Sabers, Swords, and Axes, but AF can’t use any of those…)


Also, do humans now have more ATP than the same gender of Cast on that class? Just curious there, as the JP wiki hasn’t been updated.

And then they have nanoblasts. Humans flat out lose IMO.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

But Humans are gonna be getting tanks, so that events it out. Also for Newmans, they get the Relic Gun and Summons, so they can do good too.

[Pillan]

On 2007-10-04 19:37, Shiroryuu wrote:
I'm sure that Humans and Newmans would still be the best Acrofighters, although I wouldn't bash CAST or Beast Acrofighters either. Humans are well balanced at ATP, TP, and EVP which are the most important stats for the class, and maybe ATA, but Humans aren't so bad at it, and Newmans have the 2nd best ATA and the best TP, so they'll obviously be the best Shadoog users while still being mediocre [at worst] at melee.


I’d actually argue Newmans will be the worst off at the class. Lowest ATP with no bonus means they’re significantly weaker than every other race in terms of melee damage. As I mentioned earlier, AF can’t use any ATA dependent weapons, so Cast and Newman ATA is useless. The EVP difference between the races is just as much BS as the ATA difference, so if you can’t tell the difference between a Beast and Cast fG’s hit rate, you won’t be able to see a Cast and Newman AF’s block rate. The 5% class mod gives humans more or insignificantly less in every stat except MST, but the HP difference more than makes up for that.

So it just depends on how dependent AF is on Shadoogs, really. If Shadoogs are incredibly active weapons and the penetrating shot has a wide range, then Newman wins. If they’re not, Beast and Cast win. (And then SUVs and Nano Blasts can be taken into consideration…)


On 2007-10-04 19:37, Shiroryuu wrote:
As for Shadoogs being there for SE, well, the same can be for Gunners, yet people are saying that ATP is important for Gunners, thus considering Newmans the worst at the class and Beasts, the class w/ the worst ATA as a class that can be on par w/ CASTs. What I'm trying to say is, maybe Shadoogs can provide some extra damage as well with their shots, as well as some SEs.


There’s a huge difference here: Ranger classes depend on guns for both damage and status effects, while the hunter/ranger crosses (PT, FG, AF) depend on melee for damage and bullets for SE.

And, yeah, it’s obvious that Shadoogs will provide some extra damage, but how much extra damage can an AI controlled gun provide? 3 shot bursts at A rank and a penetrating bullet at S, but I still don’t know how often they fire.


But, you know, play as you wish. I mean, no one’s going to actually take that into consideration because everyone’s too excited about a good class for Newman hunters.

[Bitey]

*Sorry, I was misinformed*

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Bitey on 2007-10-07 20:35 ]</font>