Cause of overpriceing,currently

[Pentence]

Ok i have thought alot about this and alot of items still seem overpriced.I havent played for a long time then came back to prepare for the new event and things are still ugly on the market.However i also noticed something else.Sega is leaving player run shops up from players who quit.I think this might be a large contributor to over priced items currently.

Allow me to explain,a newbie signs up for PSU then goes and checks shop prices for the first time.She looks for ______ item and sees that this lvl _____ has it listed for ________________ and thusly thinks " well that must be correct".Now we will asume this girl is savy and will go and double check other peoples prices,however she find that the items price is still realy high in shops that have it.This is due to the fact no one realy buys it at that price.SO thusly she lists said item at ________ price.

I realy belive this is a big problem in the comunity that and people who think a a or b rank item grinded a bit is worth insane amounts.I think As well establisehd community we should try to get things back on track.PSU pc/ps2 prices have been righted a bit recently but we all need to make an effort to be more realistic in our priceing.

I would realy like ot hear others opinions on this and ways to make things better.

[Golto]

Yes of course you'll see items that are way overpriced because they will never sell and collect dust. Since as you said St doesn't delete characters, their shops are still up. Prices that sold 2-3 months ago or longer no longer sell.

[ThEoRy]

New. Shop. Search. Functions.
Problem solved. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Alamar]

Greed! Greed! Greed! Greed! and Greed! plain and simple no other way to describe it. No story needed no excuses. it is GREED! Ok I'm done.

[Zorafim]

The problem is that nobody knows how to manage a shop, and everyone is treated equally. They'll haphazardly put an item up for sale at whatever price. It isn't stupidity, it isn't greed, it's the way the system is set up. It doesn't endorse an economy at all.

As has already been stated, the new shop functions will fix this.

[Parn]

Sometimes I wonder if online game developers intentionally leave features out so when they ship an expansion pack, everyone can get extra excited.

[Mysterious-G]

On 2007-10-07 11:10, ThEoRy wrote:
New. Shop. Search. Functions.
Problem solved. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



"Hurray! The new shop search functions are out! Now I will check out the new low prices for my Ank Dedda! .... WTF?! Cheapest one is 90M?! .... Well, at least it went down like 1M." *buys it*

>_>

[Gryffin]

On 2007-10-07 09:54, Pentence wrote:
Gremlins.

[Alamar]

Sorry I don't buy that. People know just waht they are doing when it comes to prices. I.E. When the news for Firebreak came out that Bans would be needed the prices shot up 20k for up to 50k or more. Go look at rappy feathers now besides the fact that we will get 30 feathers for Srank A mission. go look 65k up to 1 million, maybe 50k if your lucky. This happens with every board also A new board will be released friday the mats for that board shoot up to insane prices fast. This happens with every board and Both events(Firebreak and 1 Up). Ask anyone who shops ALOT they will tell you prices skyrocket when news that they will be needed for "this" or "that". It is not the system it is not inexperinced shop owners it is Greed. Some yes don't know how to work a shop but most are powered by GREED.

[Mysterious-G]

On 2007-10-07 13:26, Alamar wrote:
GREED.



SEED GREED, the true evil threatening Gurhal.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mysterious-G on 2007-10-07 13:33 ]</font>

[Yuicihi]

I've found one constant in every MMO I've ever played: virtual economies rarely, if ever, actually work or make sense. Maple Story is a prime example.

In PSU terms, it's simply a case of greed.

[Wallin]

Maple Story, good lord... I consider that less of an MMO than PSU, but that's just me. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Yuicihi]

On 2007-10-07 14:02, Wallin wrote:
Maple Story, good lord... I consider that less of an MMO than PSU, but that's just me. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

The economy there is even more FUBAR than PSU's.

[blkbeast]

greed..an ugly issue of PSU and AOL is gonna fix this...ok ill wait and see.

[SStrikerR]

i saw a copernia for 52k, and a buster no grinds no ele for 15k
what retard does that????

dude, its a common drop in the Linear Line

[DavidNel]

Yeah, actually, I've had this problem. When I came back from 6 months off, I got yelled at for having high priced photons. Fortunately, I've corrected this, so it's all good.

[Lamak]

I see copernia 30k now. I could swear they sold for 10k back when Haxeta ruled.

[Zoamel_Gustav]

On 2007-10-07 09:54, Pentence wrote:
However i also noticed something else. Sega is leaving player run shops up from players who quit. I think this might be a large contributor to over priced items currently.

Do you have proof of this? From what I have seen, shops are removed from searches if the room is vacant for a few days.


On 2007-10-07 09:54, Pentence wrote:
Allow me to explain,a newbie signs up for PSU then goes and checks shop prices for the first time.She looks for ______ item and sees that this lvl _____ has it listed for ________________ and thusly thinks " well that must be correct".Now we will asume this girl is savy and will go and double check other peoples prices,however she find that the items price is still realy high in shops that have it.This is due to the fact no one realy buys it at that price.SO thusly she lists said item at ________ price.

This was one of the reasons I created The NPC Price Shop. Here is a link to the topic "Creating an NPC Priced Shop to help stop overpricing." (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=152210&forum=20) This sort of situation can be avoided by leading by example. If someone believes an item is worth a lower price, they could stock and sell that item themselves at the lower price to influence others.


On 2007-10-07 09:54, Pentence wrote:
I realy belive this is a big problem in the comunity that and people who think a a or b rank item grinded a bit is worth insane amounts.I think As well establisehd community we should try to get things back on track.PSU pc/ps2 prices have been righted a bit recently but we all need to make an effort to be more realistic in our priceing.

I would realy like ot hear others opinions on this and ways to make things better.

The new conditional shop search system will solve clogs from storage shops and bait items.
I'm restocking "The NPC Price Shop" every day. It shows up on many searches. Other people have created similar "less than NPC Price" Shops.
"Recommended shops" have people in them. I visit and discuss the economy with them daily and some have corrected their prices.
The NPC Price Shop has signed the visitor logs of many overpriced shops, allowing them to find The NPC Price Shop and some have corrected their prices.
I gather the names of many overpriced shops for when I meet them in lobbies to discuss the economy.
My shop ads list the price of commonly overpriced items.
I'm gathering data to accurately appraise the cost of grinded and elemental weapons and line shields.
I'm gathering data for improved farming, to one day create a "NPC shop" that sells the drop only rares.
I am willing to share data and methods. Anyone can do what I do. Every bit helps.


On 2007-10-07 13:32, Mysterious-G wrote:

On 2007-10-07 13:26, Alamar wrote:
GREED.
SEED GREED, the true evil threatening Gurhal.

Whenever people blame their own actions on greed, I always retort with enlightened self-interest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightened_self-interest). Running a fair, trustworthy shop with reliable, loyal costumers is much more profitable for both parties rather than to ruining the reputation of one's own shop and of all player shops in general. The NPC shops hold a monopoly as the sole suppler to the buyers who no longer trust the sellers to be fair.

[Pentence]

On 2007-10-07 16:07, Zoamel_Gustav wrote:

On 2007-10-07 09:54, Pentence wrote:
However i also noticed something else. Sega is leaving player run shops up from players who quit. I think this might be a large contributor to over priced items currently.

Do you have proof of this? From what I have seen, shops are removed from searches if the room is vacant for a few days.


On 2007-10-07 09:54, Pentence wrote:
Allow me to explain,a newbie signs up for PSU then goes and checks shop prices for the first time.She looks for ______ item and sees that this lvl _____ has it listed for ________________ and thusly thinks " well that must be correct".Now we will asume this girl is savy and will go and double check other peoples prices,however she find that the items price is still realy high in shops that have it.This is due to the fact no one realy buys it at that price.SO thusly she lists said item at ________ price.

This was one of the reasons I created The NPC Price Shop. Here is a link to the topic "Creating an NPC Priced Shop to help stop overpricing." (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=152210&forum=20) This sort of situation can be avoided by leading by example. If someone believes an item is worth a lower price, they could stock and sell that item themselves at the lower price to influence others.


On 2007-10-07 09:54, Pentence wrote:
I realy belive this is a big problem in the comunity that and people who think a a or b rank item grinded a bit is worth insane amounts.I think As well establisehd community we should try to get things back on track.PSU pc/ps2 prices have been righted a bit recently but we all need to make an effort to be more realistic in our priceing.

I would realy like ot hear others opinions on this and ways to make things better.

The new conditional shop search system will solve clogs from storage shops and bait items.
I'm restocking "The NPC Price Shop" every day. It shows up on many searches. Other people have created similar "less than NPC Price" Shops.
"Recommended shops" have people in them. I visit and discuss the economy with them daily and some have corrected their prices.
The NPC Price Shop has signed the visitor logs of many overpriced shops, allowing them to find The NPC Price Shop and some have corrected their prices.
I gather the names of many overpriced shops for when I meet them in lobbies to discuss the economy.
My shop ads list the price of commonly overpriced items.
I'm gathering data to accurately appraise the cost of grinded and elemental weapons and line shields.
I'm gathering data for improved farming, to one day create a "NPC shop" that sells the drop only rares.
I am willing to share data and methods. Anyone can do what I do. Every bit helps.


On 2007-10-07 13:32, Mysterious-G wrote:

On 2007-10-07 13:26, Alamar wrote:
GREED.
SEED GREED, the true evil threatening Gurhal.

Whenever people blame their own actions on greed, I always retort with enlightened self-interest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightened_self-interest). Running a fair, trustworthy shop with reliable, loyal costumers is much more profitable for both parties rather than to ruining the reputation of one's own shop and of all player shops in general. The NPC shops hold a monopoly as the sole suppler to the buyers who no longer trust the sellers to be fair.



I have done a good portion of this my shop is always under npc and always has been.Also your most correct,enlightenment is always usefull.Thanks for your input its the most usefull here so far.

[Zabrio]

you would think people would catch on just because you can't use it or it has 7*+ does not mean it is worth millions i mean if it is tere for monthst maybe your price is too high

Me i check NPC Price guide on PSO world or go to the NPC price shop THEN decide on a price

[DraginHikari]

I've actually had a issue selling recently, for the most part my shop has cheaper materials then most shops, however people in general don't seem to buy mats from player shops anymore due to the massive amount of overpriced ones even though my prices on all materials is under 75k regardless of the star levels >>

[Schubalts]

The massive number of overpriced shops drown out the sane shops in the search.

[DraginHikari]

Seems to be the case --

[omegapirate2k]

The new shop function may not exactly remedy it, but it will make it quicker for me to find well priced goods among a sea of shit prices.

[Alamar]

I have this idea for my shop I call it the "the walmart" I sell low real low but i sell alot I end up making I good amount of money doing this. But to look around and still see crazy prices. I think WTF are these people thinking? Are they thinking at all. I know this is a fantasy world made up but there still is no get rich quick scheme. Not even in games as in real life. And for those owners that have Neptuline for 500k and other really stupid prices, The days of mass haxeta are gone. People in lobbies handing out 10,15, 30 million at a time are long gone. And yes I know many shops still up players that quit 5 and 6 months ago are still there. It is funny going to them and seeing the prices how high they are.

[DraginHikari]

I've found the 10* matierals aren't even worht 100k mostly due to the current over saturation of them. Because only so many 10*+ weapons are being found and made they aren't really leaving the market...

[Fatima]

On 2007-10-07 17:32, DraginHikari wrote:
I've actually had a issue selling recently, for the most part my shop has cheaper materials then most shops, however people in general don't seem to buy mats from player shops anymore due to the massive amount of overpriced ones even though my prices on all materials is under 75k regardless of the star levels >>



Thats my problem too...

I've seen a board for the dulk fakis figure for like...30mil...when you can buy it for 5k in the shop...>_>;
And I can't get a puyo for shizzle...I just don't make a mil a day to buy that kinda stuff.

[Genoa]

If we don't sell our items for a high price then someone who's looking or just so happens to stumble upon your shop sees how cheap yours is (or how "fair" it is) ... they're going to buy all you got and perhaps sell it for higher. It really doesn't matter how you run the shop, if ANY money is being transfered between other players, the same amount of meseta is in the economy, it just depends WHICH of those players has more.

Unless NPC's sold super amazing things and good prices, the money will continue to circulate. NPC's need to fullfill our needs again with more than just recovery items. Everyone make more PM's and spend millions on disks and cast suits! xD

[ChaoticBurst]

Quote:
On 2007-10-07 09:54, Pentence wrote:
However i also noticed something else. Sega is leaving player run shops up from players who quit. I think this might be a large contributor to over priced items currently.


Do you have proof of this? From what I have seen, shops are removed from searches if the room is vacant for a few days.

My account expired, i'm currently playing on my friend's account and i can still go on my own characters's shop. Search name : ChaotiX account been expired for 4 months theres your proof

[TetsuyaHikari]

Well, here's how I feel about the matter:

Okay! First off, our economy is terrible. It may be a shitty (excuse the French) economy, but..nevertheless, that's what it is. So, with the way items are priced, it's hard for new players to even begin to purchase things, especially since we don't get enough money out in the fields.

Even at level 83, I find myself grumbling about the prices because at my current level I can't afford my next piece of equipment because some moron (yes, MORON) wants to price the item at 85 million and claim that it's a "bargain".

I'm sorry, but..you cannot cover up ignorance through something that is socially accepted. For example:

Joe A notices Weapon B is priced at 6 million meseta, but feels as though it isn't worth that much, HOWEVER..he puts it up in his shop for 6 million anyway, just like everyone else.

Joe A is a moron, just like a bunch of other people. Just because a lot of people have the same weapon or item priced at the same amount doesn't make it right.

There are a few people who are in control of our money and aren't spending it while they have the NERVE to continue and put stuff in their shop for tens upon millions of meseta, thinking a majority of us are actually walking around with that much.

75 million may seem like pocket change to them, but for the average Joe..they have to work their ass off for that kind of money and when they finally get it, that's it. They won't have an extra 75 million in their common box, unlike the "elitist".

Basically, it amounts to..the higher ups need to take a clue and realize not ALL of us are swimming in millions upon millions of meseta. Since they are in control of our money, everyone seems to follow their examples.

Here's an example to follow. How about taking a look at the 360's economy and ask yourself, "Now why can't we have prices like that?" or take a look at the Japanese PC/PS2 servers and ask the same thing.

So EVIDENTLY it's possible to have a nice stable economy, but..fact is..here, nobody wants to do it. There are a select few who have tried, including myself, but the truth is..a minority will not be heard over the majority, so..what we need to do is turn the tables and make ourselves a majority and help everyone realize that the prices are just downright STUPID and put things back into motion for a more friendly economy...an economy that even the average Joe can live in.

My idea would be to just go on strike (if you will) and not buy any item over the price which is set for the Japanese servers or 360 servers. Once those who are managing their shops of stupidly overpriced items (which they claim to be "cheap") realize that nobody is buying anything, maybe they will take a clue. If not, we can give them a vowel http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

I honestly don't see what's so hard about saying, "Ya know..this price really isn't fair..", then lowering the price of the item you are wanting to sell. If only more people thought like that, then we would be pushed in the right direction for a better economy.

You know it's a messed up economy when you offer 35 FUCKING million meseta to someone for a single item and their response to you is:

"No thanks. I'll wait for a better offer"

So yeah...how about we start trying to form an economy EVERYONE can live in, instead of just rich people?

Just something to consider http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kikumaru on 2007-10-08 00:23 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kikumaru on 2007-10-08 00:26 ]</font>

[Zarbolord]

I would get my prices down if I could enter my main account ._.
Up till then I can't rly do anything >_> Well the rooms are locked anyway so its not a big problem lol, but I wish I could still access it (I mean selling 2 ortapolymers for 500k each isn't that much right?). Well, I still need to check out how the economy is now, 4 weeks kinda makes you forgtet a lot.

[Jainsea]

I hear you guys ;_; I have a Weapon shop that I like to beleive
is fair( I checked prices w/ the data base here on each one) but
I see these crazy high prices on bs weapons and im like @_@
Thats a joke right? Sadly it isnt http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif I think/hope the new Aoi shop search function will improve this. Lower your prices or your shop wont even show up on the list. There are some slow learners out there though =T

[Yusaku_Kudou]

Prices seem fine on the 360. Got an Ank Pikor for 400k that had 5 grinds and 20% ice earlier today.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Yusaku_Kudou on 2007-10-08 02:04 ]</font>

[Nanoframe]

On 2007-10-08 00:21, Kikumaru wrote:
Well, here's how I feel about the matter:

Okay! First off, our economy is terrible. It may be a shitty (excuse the French) economy, but..nevertheless, that's what it is. So, with the way items are priced, it's hard for new players to even begin to purchase things, especially since we don't get enough money out in the fields.

Even at level 83, I find myself grumbling about the prices because at my current level I can't afford my next piece of equipment because some moron (yes, MORON) wants to price the item at 85 million and claim that it's a "bargain".

I'm sorry, but..you cannot cover up ignorance through something that is socially accepted. For example:

Joe A notices Weapon B is priced at 6 million meseta, but feels as though it isn't worth that much, HOWEVER..he puts it up in his shop for 6 million anyway, just like everyone else.

Joe A is a moron, just like a bunch of other people. Just because a lot of people have the same weapon or item priced at the same amount doesn't make it right.

There are a few people who are in control of our money and aren't spending it while they have the NERVE to continue and put stuff in their shop for tens upon millions of meseta, thinking a majority of us are actually walking around with that much.

75 million may seem like pocket change to them, but for the average Joe..they have to work their ass off for that kind of money and when they finally get it, that's it. They won't have an extra 75 million in their common box, unlike the "elitist".

Basically, it amounts to..the higher ups need to take a clue and realize not ALL of us are swimming in millions upon millions of meseta. Since they are in control of our money, everyone seems to follow their examples.

Here's an example to follow. How about taking a look at the 360's economy and ask yourself, "Now why can't we have prices like that?" or take a look at the Japanese PC/PS2 servers and ask the same thing.

So EVIDENTLY it's possible to have a nice stable economy, but..fact is..here, nobody wants to do it. There are a select few who have tried, including myself, but the truth is..a minority will not be heard over the majority, so..what we need to do is turn the tables and make ourselves a majority and help everyone realize that the prices are just downright STUPID and put things back into motion for a more friendly economy...an economy that even the average Joe can live in.

My idea would be to just go on strike (if you will) and not buy any item over the price which is set for the Japanese servers or 360 servers. Once those who are managing their shops of stupidly overpriced items (which they claim to be "cheap") realize that nobody is buying anything, maybe they will take a clue. If not, we can give them a vowel http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

I honestly don't see what's so hard about saying, "Ya know..this price really isn't fair..", then lowering the price of the item you are wanting to sell. If only more people thought like that, then we would be pushed in the right direction for a better economy.

You know it's a messed up economy when you offer 35 FUCKING million meseta to someone for a single item and their response to you is:

"No thanks. I'll wait for a better offer"

So yeah...how about we start trying to form an economy EVERYONE can live in, instead of just rich people?

Just something to consider http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kikumaru on 2007-10-08 00:23 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kikumaru on 2007-10-08 00:26 ]</font>


Thats not really going to work for a long time to come, the rich will just buy those nice weapons you sell at cheap price ..... If you sell at as high as you can get for it the wealth would be spread more evenly

[imfanboy]

What really, REALLY pisses me off is, well... I dunno how many of you play with a gal named Three Trees, but I sent her an angry mail asking her to wrap her photons in presents instead of leaving them to clutter up the shop searches. She actually mails me back with a "Fsck you!" and we get into a long argument in which she says, "I do that because wrapping photons takes up too much room in storage."

What - the - FUCK? You've got 350 empty slots in your PM, give or take, not counting ALTS and you think that a shop with a measly 35 slots is actually a BIG DIFFERENCE?? Ugh.

I hate stupid people.

I also hate willingly stupid people.

[Kion]

high prices seem to have several factors contributing to them from what i can guess:

first are the people who quit from the haxeta days and left their shops up. I guess Sega really hasn't deleted anyone's account so i'll see shops with low account ID's and rediculously high prices. no one buys from them so the shops are left up.

the another party is storage, i really don't want to see how much kubara wood you have. if your PM is full then throw a bow around it and stick it back into your PM. noone wants to stumble across your shop while looking for items to find a bunch of over-priced crap. sure it maybe convient storage but it adds insult to injury. at the very least if you're storing items, set them at NPC price so that if someone buys it; you can simply replace it.

what i really hate and can't figure out are people who put words like "cheap" and "fair", into their ads. "cheap" and "fair" used to be words that were used to separate normal shops from fucked up ones. don't use those words to draw people into a freak show of prices. false advertising and it adds more crap to the sea of player shops.

"leets" are very irritating as well. they have max meseta, they have S ranks that go for max meseta and they think they any gem they find in the field should bring them a nice proffit. but honnestly i don't want to buy a ganna line or nafri senba from one of them for 10 mil when i can find it from a normal player's shop made for alot less. leets, you guys aren't the only one's who find good items, so how about being more down to earth about what you ask for them?

and last are the noobs who search the shops, see all the high prices and think that they have to have 40 billion meseta to get anything, so they basically copy all of the prices that they see thinking it's how the economy is and futher adding to the problem.

hopefully the new shop search will fix some of the problem's, but i sincerely hope that it filters out 90% of player shops.

[TetsuyaHikari]

On 2007-10-08 02:19, Nanoframe wrote:

Thats not really going to work for a long time to come, the rich will just buy those nice weapons you sell at cheap price ..... If you sell at as high as you can get for it the wealth would be spread more evenly



Well..fair enough, they will probably do that, HOWEVER...that would still be them being stupid, continuing to add fuel to the fire. It's not my fault I sell something for cheap wanting to sell it to a fair player and some haxeta moron comes in and buys it. I can't control that from happening.

"If you sell at as high as you can get for it" is what bothers me though. Our vision of "what we can get for it" has been skewered for the past few months now. You should NOT be able to get 50 million or more for a unit.

If people continue to sell things for that high, no..the money won't be spreading evenly. As I stated before, there are a select few who are in control of our money at the moment. All that will happen is they will keep pocketing the money and overpricing items, so the money won't distribute throughout the community.

Why? Because the "elitists" believe they don't have to spend their money, because their whole inventory is filled with S ranks and they have 200+ million meseta that they want to keep ALLLLLLL to themselves.

It's basically the whole, "Why the hell should I care about what happens to you?" attitude. Sad part is..the people in control of our money ALL have this attitude, leaving us..the average Joes..with a fucked up economy while it doesn't even affect them, cause they can afford everything.

Point is..when the same item is being sold on the 360 or Japanese PC/PS2 servers for barely 1 million and people in the States are asking 45 million for it on their servers, we have a SERIOUS problem.

So why do so many people have the attitude of, "Why should I do anything? The economy is fucked anyway *shrugs*". That's what I would like to know.

Well..maybe we'll get a miracle of some sort and have good priced items one day..

Pfft. Yeah..right...like THAT would happen. That would require some people to get a brain, so I guess we're screwed.

[SeeKay]

I understand where you're coming from. It's our decision to break the chain. The question is how long before each individual decides to break it. I keep selling my stuff at truly decent prices because:
A. I want to compete and
B. I want to set the example for the customer and the competition.

If anyone has that in mind when they price their items, then there is nothing to worry about. The prices will return to normal eventually.
We all just gotta do our part in seeing where it goes. Boycott the overpriced and buy the cheap stuff =)

[Genoa]

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif You go ahead and sell your things for what the SHOULD be. But honestly, If we have THIS MUCH MONEY circulating the economy, then a lot of the things sold for such a high price ARE actually worth that much.

Just be happy that you can actually buy ANYTHING from another player in the first place.

It's just like the real world, Inflation, therefore, you need more to get more. "But it's not worth that much!" Well there's too much money floating around, therefore, IT IS WORTH THAT MUCH"

<______< Yes, this is coming from someone without S-ranks, boo hoo. They should be hard as crap to get a hand on. I understand where your coming from with SOME items, but ...
UNTIL more people buy from NPC's, where the money FOR SURE goes away, we're screwed >___>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MegamanX on 2007-10-08 06:32 ]</font>

[Nanoframe]

With our economy a new player can atleast strike it rich in one shot. alot of times new players ask how can we get some cash when they see people with 50 mil in lobbies.

I say find a rare item and sell it for cash! I used to tell them best thing to try to find and strike it rich was the Blackheart unit which can be found allmost by anyone even a poor lv 20 and that could bring like 80 mil back then.

Even now Blackheart can bring 15- 25 mil which would really help a new player get the stuff they want and if they dont overspend can last them a very long time

Rare items found by poor people which are sold for alot does take the cash from the rich and gives to the poor.

[Kylie]

One of the reasons, but it's also because some people don't check NPC prices, don't care, etc. I rarely have to shop, but I always appreciate ads that list the prices of what they're selling, so I don't have to waste me time loading and then being disappointed (PS2).

[TetsuyaHikari]

If we're going to have to rely on finding rare items to become rich, now I KNOW we're screwed >.>

Secondly..once again..the items are only "worth" that much, because people want to put them up for a ridiculous amount. Are they REALLY worth 75 million? No. Absolutely not.

I don't care WHAT item it is. You shouldn't have to pay 75 million for a single item. THAT IS RIDICULOUS. I don't know how many times I have to tell you, but..I'll say it again.

Take a look the 360 servers or the Japanese PC/PS2 servers. If they can price a Svaltus for 2-3 million then why the hell can't we?!

I'll tell you why! Because there aren't enough people in our community that want to put forth the effort to change our economy to a better one! If everyone keeps pricing things at ridiculous amounts, then it will forever stay that way and as I stated before as WELL..only a select few will be in control of our money, as opposed to..having prices which EVERYONE can afford.

Instead of having only a handful of people have hundreds of millions of meseta, why not have that spread throughout the whole community? If only a FEW people can buy really high priced items and the money keeps going back and forth between them, then NO..our economy will not improve. That should be obvious.

Anyway..like someone stated earlier...if someone could just follow the examples being given, this would work and our economy will improve. Until then..it will be like a government and all of the low class peoples' money will continue being pocketed by the higher class, and they won't spend it..and if they DO, it will only be amongst themselves, NOT by buying something from someone with less money.

*sighs* Honestly..what's so hard about looking at the S rank in your shop and saying, "Ya know..max meseta for this IS a bit ridiculous.." and lowering the price to a REASONABLE amount?

It's like smoking. You guys just don't know how to quit, do you?

[Gama]

...wut ifff..... the player shops were managed by prices like ...for example.. the game has a setted up price for each item and u put it on shop, everyone haves the same price but.. who gets more gets more meseta... in case of weps and stufff if you have a good % or grind the price could raise acordingly to tht... psu economi would actually work and npc shops should be cheaper of course cuz theyre items are basic. just a though

[Lamak]

I just don't like what the pure traders/sellers do. They already have a large sum of money, and rare High %/Units. Well basically they have alot of rarz. They trade these rarz for any new rar possible. The funny thing is, they sell to sell it back for high prices. They are hoarding all the money, and that's not good. There are a few people on PS2/PC with around 200 million meseta + and that's not good. :|

[Nanoframe]

Ok tell me how selling a svaltus sword for 5 mil help? some rich guy that sits and searches shops all day that has 200 mil will just buy it and keep it or put it in their shop for 60 mil to become even richer off of another rich guy who missed bying it for 5 mil.

[Ogni-XR21]

The ecconomy is ruined and I'm afraid selling stuff for fair prices is not going to change that. The only thing that could actually help is an option that lets you trade items in shops. There would just have to be a way to specify what an item can be traded for.

I really hope the new shop search functions will help, we'll just have to wait and see.

[Nanoframe]

Ok tell me how selling a svaltus sword for 5 mil help? some rich guy that sits and searches shops all day that has 200 mil will just buy it and keep it or put it in their shop for 60 mil to become even richer off of another rich guy who missed bying it for 5 mil.

[Reipard]

In our current economy, what would the Price of Genocide be?
Nothing. Still an online story mission.

Oh, I kill myself.


The ecconomy is ruined and I'm afraid selling stuff for fair prices is not going to change that. The only thing that could actually help is an option that lets you trade items in shops. There would just have to be a way to specify what an item can be traded for.

Unfortunately, the pendulum swings both ways on this. There is little stopping people from equally specifying completely unreasonable trades. This is evidenced by the Pokemon Wi-fi wherein ridiculously common pokes are put up as red herrings with unreasonable trades like level 100 news.

So ultimately we'd be in the same rut as we are now.

[TetsuyaHikari]

On 2007-10-08 14:15, Nanoframe wrote:
Ok tell me how selling a svaltus sword for 5 mil help? some rich guy that sits and searches shops all day that has 200 mil will just buy it and keep it or put it in their shop for 60 mil to become even richer off of another rich guy who missed bying it for 5 mil.



Selling a Svaltus Sword for five million WOULD help. If some rich guy is searching through shops and finds it, then sells it for more, that's not MY problem. That's his.

Why? Because he's being STUPID. The Svaltus is NOT worth 60 million. You can try saying otherwise, but I'm not arguing. No item in this game is worth 60 million. People who choose to sell these items for such a price are idiots.

It's because of morons like that we DON'T have a good economy, because we don't want to sell items such as the Svaltus Sword for 5 million and leave it at that. There will always be someone out there looking to pocket more money.

The fact doesn't change..a few people are in control of our money and it's their fault we don't have a better economy yet, because they have such a high influence on other players, people seem to think a single Saber is worth 70 million when..well..it's not -.-'

[Zorafim]

An item can be worth that much money, actually, assuming proper demand. It may be stupid for it to be worth that much, but it is. It's just simply marketing to price it like that if it's the going rate. Though there is nothing stopping you from selling it for a lower rate, it won't be worth that much unless everyone else is willing to sell it for that amount as well.

[TetsuyaHikari]

Not even "proper demand" can justify that we are selling the same item which is sold on the 360 servers for tens upon millions of MORE meseta.

I don't really care if there's a demand for the item or not. When we see that the same item is being sold for 1-2 million on the 360 and we sell it for 40 million..as I stated before..THAT is a problem.

I understand we're on different consoles, we have a different community, but..fact remains..they have a good economy, we however..do NOT.

Why? Because there ARE people here who continue pricing things at stupid amounts. Proper demand doesn't even come close to explaining why all of our prices are this way. You think that every single item which is overpriced is being demanded? No. It's because there are stupid people wanting to keep fucking up our economy.

What's so hard to realize about there actually being stupid people in control of our economy? Proper demand..pfft. Stop making excuses.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Genoa]

But with 360 servers... they have more players... A lot more... Therefore, there should be more S-ranks in circulation because there are more people to acquire them. In that case, The "fair price" for them, shouldn't be as equal in price to our economy (ps2/pc). We have LESS people, MORE money, therefore, S-ranks for US should cost MUCH more due to it being MORE rare, and our MASSIVE amount of cash flow.

[Golto]

You have two choices Kikumaru
1. Find the things yourself that you see overpriced.
2. Go buy a 360 and start from stratch.

When it comes to player to player interactions meseta is almost worthless in NA/EU pc/ps2. This won't change anytime soon unless ALL of the vets quit because we are all tainted by the overpricing.

Lets say in real life you buy a used car for $2k and then try to sell it. You have one person wanting to buy it for $1k and another willing to pay $4k because a celeb used to own it before they were famous. Which price would you sell that car for?

[Nanoframe]

Well what about when you spend 400 hours hunting something like a Kan Yu? If one of those was in a shop for 99 mil it would sell in seconds. after you spent so much of your time on it you should be able to get a decent amount of cash for it. Then if you were in some party and got it after 2 runs by luck then maybe sell it cheap

Sometimes you have to set price based on how hard it was for you to get the item youre selling

[Zorafim]

On 2007-10-08 14:52, Kikumaru wrote:
I don't really care if there's a demand for the item or not. When we see that the same item is being sold for 1-2 million on the 360 and we sell it for 40 million..as I stated before..THAT is a problem.





If said item was being sold consistently for 2mil, and is always in stock, then it's terrible idiotic to sell it for 40mil. That much I can agree with. If, however, it's only rarely being sold, then a high price can be justified due to its high demand and low supply. This is especially true considering our terrible item buying and selling feature, and the amount of meseta in our system, as well the rarity of many of the items in the game.

The only way for this to be "fixed" is if rare items become more common, or if meseta becomes less common. Luckily, the former is happening soon.

[TetsuyaHikari]

It seems more people are blind than I thought >.>

It's a simple concept really. Here is the best way I know of putting it, so you'll understand:

Haxeta has fucked up our economy

There you have it. If you can't realize the prices are stupid, then I don't know what to tell you -.-'

[Zorafim]

You should have said that in the first place. Everyone knows that.

[Genoa]

On 2007-10-08 16:00, Kikumaru wrote:
It seems more people are blind than I thought >.>

It's a simple concept really. Here is the best way I know of putting it, so you'll understand:

Haxeta has fucked up our economy

There you have it. If you can't realize the prices are stupid, then I don't know what to tell you -.-'


Reality is the same concept. People think that they can make a difference. If EVERYONE doesn't help, then it's not going to work, and you KNOW that everyone isn't going to sell for "fair", therefore, you must live of the world. Join them, hope NPC items rock hardcore later, that's the difference from the real world.

It SHOULD eventually dim down after... maybe a year or so? <_> I dunno

[Zorafim]

One would have thought all the 50% synthing would have helped the economy, though. One would hope the extra makeover options will help.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zorafim on 2007-10-08 16:14 ]</font>

[Ezodagrom]

On 2007-10-08 14:48, Zorafim wrote:
An item can be worth that much money, actually, assuming proper demand. It may be stupid for it to be worth that much, but it is. It's just simply marketing to price it like that if it's the going rate. Though there is nothing stopping you from selling it for a lower rate, it won't be worth that much unless everyone else is willing to sell it for that amount as well.


That doesn't explain why some ppl sell stuff at higher prices than npc shop <.< (examples materials like vulcaline, ebons, even 7*/8* weapons...sometimes)

[Zorafim]

Well, the item is still worth that much. It's just idiotic to sell it for that much due to competition, namely the NPC.
So yeah, in that case it's just idiocy. But, new search feature, etc.

[ljkkjlcm9]

people seem to forget that the value of items like S ranks is strictly personal. While some people think say, a twin ragnus is trash, while others would give anything to have one. So to some people it's worth maybe 1 mil, while others value it at 90 mil.

Like, tons of people value their halp serafi very highly, despite the percents. Personally, I don't think much of it, and am not willing to pay the price that people want for it. So, it's worth more to them than me. If I value something in my shop for 50 mil, that's how much it's worth to me. If it's not worth that much to someone else, they don't get it. Simple as that really.

Whatever the damn economy is, doesn't matter. Sure to some extent to those people who don't care, but in the end, it's all about how much something is worth to you.

THE JACKEL

[Zoamel_Gustav]

The new conditional shop search system will solve clogs from storage shops, bait items, unupdated shops, apathetic shops, etc.

On 2007-10-08 06:29, MegamanX wrote:
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif You go ahead and sell your things for what the SHOULD be. But honestly, If we have THIS MUCH MONEY circulating the economy, then a lot of the things sold for such a high price ARE actually worth that much.
No amount of wealth or demand justifies overpricing. There is a difference between badly priced and overpriced. 3999 Neu Ebon is badly priced. 4001 Neu Ebon is overpriced. Even is someone was very wealthy and desperately demanded neu ebon, they never have to pay more than 4000. It is wrong to abuse people.

Every item has a price ceiling. Every item has a point where the buyer knows, "I'd be better off hunting this item myself." The drop rates and NPC prices are based on this point.

On 2007-10-08 06:29, MegamanX wrote:
Just be happy that you can actually buy ANYTHING from another player in the first place.
Players are supposed to buy from other players. The NPCs are purposely overpriced because players are supposed to depend on each other. PSU is an online game.

On 2007-10-08 06:29, MegamanX wrote:
It's just like the real world, Inflation, therefore, you need more to get more. "But it's not worth that much!" Well there's too much money floating around, therefore, IT IS WORTH THAT MUCH"
Actually it's depreciation, not inflation. The sudden surge in meseta is history now. The amount of meseta going into the community right now is the normal steady amount. The smaller population means that less meseta is added to the market.

Everyone starts with the same character creator. Everyone can reach same missions missions with the same drop rates. Everyone has the same chances for the same items. There will always be new missions and new events. Items will only get easier to get.

The moment an item is found, it's value starts dropping as more of that item will be found. It's depreciation. Look at all the items collecting dust. Items are being smothered by their price tags. A neu ebon with a 4001 meseta price tag is rendered worthless.

On 2007-10-08 06:29, MegamanX wrote:
UNTIL more people buy from NPC's, where the money FOR SURE goes away, we're screwed >___>
The meseta does not need to "go away", it needs to circulate evenly. The meseta needs to be used more responsibly. I earned 8 million which I could have spent on myself or even thrown away. I choose to spend it helping people with The NPC Price Shop. Just as I choose to price my items fairly in my normal shop.

On 2007-10-08 10:43, Nanoframe wrote:
With our economy a new player can atleast strike it rich in one shot.

Rare items found by poor people which are sold for alot does take the cash from the rich and gives to the poor.
I don't recommend this. It's equivalent to spoiling them. This would just raise more of the same type of abusive shop owners.

On 2007-10-08 15:02, MegamanX wrote:
We have LESS people, MORE money, therefore, S-ranks for US should cost MUCH more due to it being MORE rare, and our MASSIVE amount of cash flow.

Our cash flow is less than their's due to the lower population. Some people just had a head start. Our drop rates are the same. The resources used by one person to find any item is the same as the resources used by any person to find that same item.

On 2007-10-08 15:26, Zorafim wrote:
If said item was being sold consistently for 2mil, and is always in stock, then it's terrible idiotic to sell it for 40mil.

I'm gathering data for improved farming, to one day create a "NPC shop" that sells the drop only rares. It will take time, but I will be running a shop that always sells 99 Ray Photons for 500, 99 polymers for 10k, 99 "drop only item" at "calculated NPC price".

On 2007-10-08 15:26, Zorafim wrote:
If, however, it's only rarely being sold, then a high price can be justified due to its high demand and low supply. This is especially true considering our terrible item buying and selling feature, and the amount of meseta in our system, as well the rarity of many of the items in the game.

If an item isn't sold, it's not in high demand. Lowering the price will put it in high demand. Not changing the price will stall and clog the system.

On 2007-10-08 16:11, MegamanX wrote:
People think that they can make a difference. If EVERYONE doesn't help, then it's not going to work, and you KNOW that everyone isn't going to sell for "fair", therefore, you must live of the world. Join them, hope NPC items rock hardcore later, that's the difference from the real world.

One person does make a difference. Everything starts with one person. Everyone influences everyone else around them. Giving up never solves anything.

[Dragwind]

It all matters on the items being sold, along with competition. Throw in some moron pricing and there you go.

[fronebullare]

On 2007-10-07 16:07, Zoamel_Gustav wrote:

On 2007-10-07 09:54, Pentence wrote:
However i also noticed something else. Sega is leaving player run shops up from players who quit. I think this might be a large contributor to over priced items currently.

Do you have proof of this? From what I have seen, shops are removed from searches if the room is vacant for a few days.


On 2007-10-07 09:54, Pentence wrote:
Allow me to explain,a newbie signs up for PSU then goes and checks shop prices for the first time.She looks for ______ item and sees that this lvl _____ has it listed for ________________ and thusly thinks " well that must be correct".Now we will asume this girl is savy and will go and double check other peoples prices,however she find that the items price is still realy high in shops that have it.This is due to the fact no one realy buys it at that price.SO thusly she lists said item at ________ price.

This was one of the reasons I created The NPC Price Shop. Here is a link to the topic "Creating an NPC Priced Shop to help stop overpricing." (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=152210&forum=20) This sort of situation can be avoided by leading by example. If someone believes an item is worth a lower price, they could stock and sell that item themselves at the lower price to influence others.


On 2007-10-07 09:54, Pentence wrote:
I realy belive this is a big problem in the comunity that and people who think a a or b rank item grinded a bit is worth insane amounts.I think As well establisehd community we should try to get things back on track.PSU pc/ps2 prices have been righted a bit recently but we all need to make an effort to be more realistic in our priceing.

I would realy like ot hear others opinions on this and ways to make things better.

The new conditional shop search system will solve clogs from storage shops and bait items.
I'm restocking "The NPC Price Shop" every day. It shows up on many searches. Other people have created similar "less than NPC Price" Shops.
"Recommended shops" have people in them. I visit and discuss the economy with them daily and some have corrected their prices.
The NPC Price Shop has signed the visitor logs of many overpriced shops, allowing them to find The NPC Price Shop and some have corrected their prices.
I gather the names of many overpriced shops for when I meet them in lobbies to discuss the economy.
My shop ads list the price of commonly overpriced items.
I'm gathering data to accurately appraise the cost of grinded and elemental weapons and line shields.
I'm gathering data for improved farming, to one day create a "NPC shop" that sells the drop only rares.
I am willing to share data and methods. Anyone can do what I do. Every bit helps.


On 2007-10-07 13:32, Mysterious-G wrote:

On 2007-10-07 13:26, Alamar wrote:
GREED.
SEED GREED, the true evil threatening Gurhal.

Whenever people blame their own actions on greed, I always retort with enlightened self-interest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightened_self-interest). Running a fair, trustworthy shop with reliable, loyal costumers is much more profitable for both parties rather than to ruining the reputation of one's own shop and of all player shops in general. The NPC shops hold a monopoly as the sole suppler to the buyers who no longer trust the sellers to be fair.

I think all of the online community should take a piece out of Zoamel's cake. Im not online right now so I dont know first hand the state of the economy but while I was on the prices were redicilous when it came to weapons and materials. I hope all shop owners consider what this guy is saying and all buyers promote a better economy by buying from these "NPC shops" more(or even boycotting everything but npc shops >.>) Hopefully everything will work itself out before I return in aoi.

[Zoamel_Gustav]

I apologize for the long posts.

On 2007-10-08 17:01, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
If I value something in my shop for 50 mil, that's how much it's worth to me. If it's not worth that much to someone else, they don't get it. Simple as that really.
Whatever the damn economy is, doesn't matter. Sure to some extent to those people who don't care, but in the end, it's all about how much something is worth to you.
It is irresponsible to overprice an item no matter how much it's believed to be worth by the owner. I wouldn't sell items which are worth more to me than anyone would reasonably pay. An overpriced item is worthless. It would clog the system, encourage further overpricing and hurt the economy. If the owner is not willing to lower the price, then the item is not worth putting into the shop at all.

On 2007-10-07 17:32, DraginHikari wrote:
people in general don't seem to buy mats from player shops anymore due to the massive amount of overpriced ones
The buyers don't trust the sellers to be worth their time anymore. The sellers need to earn back the buyers' trust with dependably fair prices.

On 2007-10-07 17:55, Schubalts wrote:
The massive number of overpriced shops drown out the sane shops in the search.
Given the lots of unsold items, the reasonably priced shops could drown out the overpriced shops if people tried. One of the things I'm going to do is flood the market with fairly price drop only items.

On 2007-10-08 02:19, Nanoframe wrote:
Thats not really going to work for a long time to come, the rich will just buy those nice weapons you sell at cheap price
The community is small. Only a minority of the small community is a billionaire. Their funds are finite and they are stingy. The majority would out last their spending. The market is overstocked. They can't sell it higher if everyone sells it lower. The time someone uses to search shops that constantly is time they could have spend earning the item themselves.

On 2007-10-08 06:29, MegamanX wrote:
It's just like the real world, Inflation,
In the real world, would a few people winning the lottery in one small area justify higher shop prices just in that area? Nope. If they tried to raise the prices for that reason, the people would riot. The shops would be pillaged and the employees would be device zeroed.

On 2007-10-08 16:11, MegamanX wrote:
Reality is the same concept. People think that they can make a difference.
Open a history book. See the news. Visit any gathering of people. Then try telling me one person can't make a difference.

On 2007-10-08 16:33, Zorafim wrote:
It's just idiotic to sell it for that much due to competition, namely the NPC.
So yeah, in that case it's just idiocy. But, new search feature, etc.
Spreading knowledge and understanding of the NPC prices would help. The new shop search will help with this too. I do not think blaming idiocy is helpful though.

[Niloklives]

No, pentance is pretty much on the mark. I've been saying this for a while now. people see a high price and think that means it's the going price. now one thing not touched on is not all these shops belong to quitters. some belong to stubborn/greedy people who won't change their prices cause they're set on getting their price on an item. in either case, shop mismanagement is leading to further shop mismanagement.

I don't know why people believe so stongly that the new system will fix things. we find ourselves with two issues:

1) the cheap stuff will get bought up more quickly and likely by fewer consumers since they no longer need to actually look for product anymore...they can always find it cheapest possible on their first shot.this will make it that much more difficult for people to find cheap items.

2) many shopkeepers try to price items based on the higher prices in shops. the idea being that as long they beat the highest price, they'll sell out. normally this would be true if the highest price were still reasinable, however since this isn't the case, the people trying to undercut the high sellers are overpricing.

now because the low priced stuff is selling so quickly, it will start forcing people to pay the higher prices since the low prices will be even harder to come by. the few people who do get the good prices may in fact be the smarter, mor devious sellers in the middle of market who buy the low pices stuff and sell higher.

the bottom line is that the improved shop search is no guarantee of the economy improving. everyone who is on that bandwagon is under the impression that the economy is fear driven. if people were worried about being undercut, they'd be resolving it now. they're not because they're not concerned. nor will they be.

Our only option will be to wait and see. it's foolish to make assumptions like that based on the nature of our fellow players.

EDIT:

Zoamel wanted proof that some of these shops still being around. there certainly seems to be a cooldown period whathave you, but it seems likely to be more like several months rather than a few days and if you search for ads that say "quit" there's still a list 20 names long if not more and many of them have been gone since july/august if not earlier.

But just to further a point, I got into an argument with someone the other day about their shop prices. they were selling a 29% ice rapier (yep, the store one) for about 700k. when i told them it was unreasonable to try to sell it at that price, they laughed and said they didn't care. it would sell eventually they assured me. "No one shops at the NPC" were his words of choice.

now while his statement clearly isn't true, his mindset is a common one. they figure SOMEONE will buy it at that price. that's all they're betting on and all they care about. and it's that mentality we're up against. since this is not reality, lives are not staked on these sales and people know that.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-10-10 22:24 ]</font>

[Zorak000]

lol I reciently sold a 0% asami-zashi I found in CoR S for 2.2k, PM food price (300m * 7stars = 2100m +100m profit = 2200m) opposed to finding a (b) kikami and selling it immeatly for 50k to a party member

[Sexy_Raine]

I Always sell NPC stuff at a fair price, as for non NPC rares, depending on how much people want it, I'd might jump the bandwagon and it the price that other people do, usually I don't. For example I'd sell a Morbinia for no less than 500k.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2007-10-11 09:41 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

I base my prices on how many runs of some common cash-grab mission I figure they're worth.

[Gama]

hum....u can always check my shop and tell me if i have anything wrongly priced.

[Trinitaria]

It is as simple as getting organized.

Yes, one CAN make a difference. My advice, start looking for players that share in your ideas, get them all organized and form a Guild of sorts. Monitor the prices and then start advertising.

I will repeat again.

1-Organize
2-Monitor
3-Advertise

That's all you need to do, If you can manage to get at the very least 10 players that will place items at or below a certain price that the organization has listed then you will be covering at least a third of the list (someone please correct me if I am wrong or comfrim the max numbers of shop names in one list <.<;; ).

If Zoamel is willing to lead such a project, you can at least count me in, I already have an Honest price list store set up.

[desturel]

On 2007-10-09 12:13, Zoamel_Gustav wrote:
I will be running a shop that always sells 99 Ray Photons for 500, 99 polymers for 10k, 99 "drop only item" at "calculated NPC price".

If you are able to collect 99 ortapolymer, sell them for 10k and have them last in your shop for more than 30 minutes, let me know... and I'm on the 360 servers.

[SolomonGrundy]

there is a fluid demand for items as well, which has not really been touched on. At one time, meow moustache was in great demand, fetching 200k+ in player shops. Now they don't sell. Why? there were/are a finite number of bear claw boards, and people's interest in bear claws as also dropped.

Also, don't forget the law of supply and demand. Ageha-senba is a great example: there are so many people mass synthing this armor, and only a finite amout of players. What ahs happened is that you cannot sell a 10-18% Ageha for anywhere near the 'correct' price. I sell mine for 10-12K and they do NOT move fast. I feel sure that even at 8K they would not flyy out the door.

[Zoamel_Gustav]

On 2007-10-12 08:57, Trinitaria wrote:
It is as simple as getting organized.

Yes, one CAN make a difference. My advice, start looking for players that share in your ideas, get them all organized and form a Guild of sorts. Monitor the prices and then start advertising.

I will repeat again.

1-Organize
2-Monitor
3-Advertise

That's all you need to do, If you can manage to get at the very least 10 players that will place items at or below a certain price that the organization has listed then you will be covering at least a third of the list (someone please correct me if I am wrong or comfrim the max numbers of shop names in one list <.<;; ).

If Zoamel is willing to lead such a project, you can at least count me in, I already have an Honest price list store set up.

I'm quite unorganized and not a good leader. My posts are long because I'm rarely online. My home connection is unstable so I disconnect often. If someone else would lead, I could advise. The max number of shops on the search list is 30 I believe.

I have been trying to figure out the Calculated NPC Prices (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=155848&forum=22&4). However, biomaterials and elemental weapons and grinded weapons will soon change value as synth rates, elemental damage formulas and the grind system are changed.


On 2007-10-12 09:16, desturel wrote:

On 2007-10-09 12:13, Zoamel_Gustav wrote:
99 "drop only item" at "calculated NPC price".
If you are able to collect 99 ortapolymer, sell them for 10k and have them last in your shop for more than 30 minutes, let me know... and I'm on the 360 servers.

This is a long term goal. The first 99 ortapolymer won't last long. The tenth stack of 99 ortapolymer should last longer. I'm gathering data for improved farming for this reason. Eventually the worth of ortapolymer would become less than 10k causing people to stop buying it at that price. The amount of synth materials in the game outweighs the amount of synth materials needed for all the boards in the game.

The concept behind this is counter flooding via heavy item farming. I'm attempting to counter the flood of laundered illegitimate meseta with a flood of farmed items. Rather than drain meseta from one side of the scale, I'm pouring items onto the other side to balance them. Lowering the prices in player shops would create a similar flood of items into the market.


On 2007-10-12 11:22, SolomonGrundy wrote:
there is a fluid demand for items as well, which has not really been touched on. At one time, meow moustache was in great demand, fetching 200k+ in player shops. Now they don't sell. Why? there were/are a finite number of bear claw boards, and people's interest in bear claws as also dropped.

Also, don't forget the law of supply and demand. Ageha-senba is a great example: there are so many people mass synthing this armor, and only a finite amout of players. What has happened is that you cannot sell a 10-18% Ageha for anywhere near the 'correct' price. I sell mine for 10-12K and they do NOT move fast. I feel sure that even at 8K they would not fly out the door.

My main point has been about price ceilings. About how an item's price can never exceed a certain point. Not even supply and demand changes this. Over time all items depreciate and lose value. The other factors just accelerated this. Demand may be fluid but the current supply is frozen. Lowered prices are needed to liquidate the overstock.

Lowering the price of any item creates more demand for that item. I am still an advocate of the Ageha set. I remember at one point I had lots of ageha-senbas. I considered the market flooded at that point so I lowered their price to PM food levels and advertised them as such. I still made a profit, and gained some more happy customers, and kept the highest percentages.

An item can be any price within reason. I'm just against items priced beyond reason. I'd say a 18% Ageha-senba can be priced anywhere between about 900 to 21240 meseta. Supply and demand will vary the price between these numbers but not beyond them. 10k is about half that which sounds okay to me. A 18% Ageha-senba for 8k should sell well if well advertised.


edit: fixed a miscalculation


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zoamel_Gustav on 2007-10-13 13:51 ]</font>

[Shishi-O]

there is no economy, the money comes from missions-npc sell back price, there is no worth than what the player deems.

if it is too expensive, don't buy. if that makes you mad, it is obvious you ould pay for it if you could.

sure i want s-ranx, but i cant afford them, why?...i didn't take the days/ weeks it took for these people to find them( and yes those people that hunted are being slighted by 1up cup)

if they wanna charge *blah* for it then they can, if you don't wanna pay, then you hunt for days weeks months for that ( armor/ unit/ wep ) that u think so little of the time they spent to find and the rarity of said item, u go and spend months looking for it....good luck.

when u find it, ask me how much u would part with it for,...if at all.

anything i find i keep.

like those people that sell meseta on ebay say " you are not buying meseta but are paying for the time it took me to gather it"


oh and by the way

weps ground to +10 are worth the insane price ( phantoms/ nightwalkers/ howrods, completely worth the 6+ mill i see.

when the ground s-ranx come, it should be interesting.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shishi-O on 2007-10-13 05:20 ]</font>

[Gama]

lemme give an example everyone must have seen.
u want to synth a caliburn for example and you go to a player shop to look for vulcaline u check the price and u see 15k then you think isnt it 8k on npc shops? wuts the logic on shop pricing is there so much dumb people dont they know the prices dop they really think theyll sell beter than the npc being more expensive and having a limmited amount to sell? player shops wrongly cost more than npc sometimes... it is wrong... it was suposed to be helpfull not the other way around.

[Zoamel_Gustav]

On 2007-10-13 05:15, Shishi-O wrote:
there is no economy, the money comes from missions-npc sell back price, there is no worth than what the player deems.

There is a virtual economy. The game world is based on data. All mission rewards are a exact number. All drop rates are a exact (abeit unknown) number. The difficulty of any task is an exact (abeit unknown) number. The sum of the resources required to obtain an item is an exact number. That is the price of an item. This is the price the game enviroment offers everyone. Player shops are supposed to compete with this price.


On 2007-10-13 05:15, Shishi-O wrote:
if it is too expensive, don't buy. if that makes you mad, it is obvious you ould pay for it if you could.


PSU is an online game. It is designed for people to be dependant on each other and not the enviroment. Low level players are intended to easily buy the low level items that the high level player don't need which drop in the high level missions. Most drops are intended to be sold to those who will use them and not hoarded.


On 2007-10-13 05:15, Shishi-O wrote:
sure i want s-ranx, but i cant afford them, why?...i didn't take the days/ weeks it took for these people to find them( and yes those people that hunted are being slighted by 1up cup)

The general consensus is that rare hunting is based more on random number generation then on the investment of time. If the value of an item is decided by the owner, then the cup has no effect on the value of that item anyways.

In the economy's current state, flooding the market with more affordable items is beneficial.


On 2007-10-13 05:15, Shishi-O wrote:
if they wanna charge *blah* for it then they can, if you don't wanna pay, then you hunt for days weeks months for that ( armor/ unit/ wep ) that u think so little of the time they spent to find and the rarity of said item, u go and spend months looking for it....good luck.

If the "value" of an item is greater then the market price, then attempting to sell that item at an unreasonable price is an act of griefing.


On 2007-10-13 05:15, Shishi-O wrote:
when u find it, ask me how much u would part with it for,...if at all.

anything i find i keep.
If you find something which you value more then the market price for that item, then yes, you should keep it. I am working on a calculated npc price list and yes I would and do part with these items at these prices and I consider it profitable.


On 2007-10-13 05:15, Shishi-O wrote:
weps ground to +10 are worth the insane price ( phantoms/ nightwalkers/ howrods, completely worth the 6+ mill i see.

The value of a grinded weapon based on probability. By calculating the exact probability of creating a +10 weapon, the exact npc price can be found.


On 2007-10-13 05:15, Shishi-O wrote:
when the ground s-ranx come, it should be interesting.

For some perspective, consider this. The maximum amount of meseta which can be carried is 1 billion. That is not a random number. That is intended to be the most any player should ever possibly need to use at one time in the far future. At this time, we have barely reached 11 star weapons. It makes no sense for any item to be worth more then 1 billion meseta. No item (not even a 60% +10 S5 weapon) is designed to be worth that much.

[Gama]

makes sense to me...but wut about everyone else? will they make resonable prices? nope...

[WildArms2]

On 2007-10-12 09:16, desturel wrote:

On 2007-10-09 12:13, Zoamel_Gustav wrote:
I will be running a shop that always sells 99 Ray Photons for 500, 99 polymers for 10k, 99 "drop only item" at "calculated NPC price".

If you are able to collect 99 ortapolymer, sell them for 10k and have them last in your shop for more than 30 minutes, let me know... and I'm on the 360 servers.



ya really a shop like that is only hurting the seller cause anyone going there is gonna resell those items at the correct market value

[SolomonGrundy]

I'd say a 18% Ageha-senba can be priced anywhere between about 900 to 21240 meseta.

the bottom rung price for any 4* armor is 3600. You can sell armors to the npc for this amount.


ya really a shop like that is only hurting the seller cause anyone going there is gonna resell those items at the correct market value

not true, if ENOUGH synth material is gathered.

you cannot buy S rank boards, therefore, there is a finite need for the materials to synth these boards. Why would you go spend 100,000 meseta to buy *another* 99 ortapolymer, when you alreadt have 99, and have only seen 1 board drop...ever?

[XenithFlare]

Wouldn't hypothetical NPC prices for non-NPC items be found simply by calculating the sell-back % of NPC items? Or... I'd assume that's too easy, and PSU naturally couldn't use a system as simple as that. XD

I think it's a great idea to create "player NPC shops," provided it was gone about in the correct manner. Create an entire account for four shops (max customer limit and all that), named "Player NPC Shop 1/2/3/4" or some such, have people hunting these rares every day and unloading them into the shop... It's an excellent idea, if we can find someone to pay for the seperate account and allow other users access to it. =P Not such a trustworthy idea, but with the right people...

[Nyreal]

The shops would have much more use if there was a way to set prices at the NPC selling level... It would prevent alot of item hording and such. It'd also encourage its use for smaller items, like moon atomizers and such.

[SAtaarcoeny]

ok my thought on it is every noob in the game has my card i tell everyone to msg me if there going to buy something and i tell them what its worth if its overpriced i tell them to send a msg to there gammer card if they dont got one i tell them just not to buy it its that simple .... so if noone buys it and they really wanna sell it they will lower there price..

[Nyreal]

This economy works the same as any other economy: Supply and demand, inflation, and whatnot. That's it. If you want to make money, I'd suggest being an entrepreneur. I've made tons of cash off simply making weapons and selling them.

[XenithFlare]

^ that worked in the beginning when everyone had enough cash to do that. And then people realized that the weapons they were selling started tapering off, and stopped making up for the loss of money due to failed synths and underpricing low %s to clear them out.

I know several people who made bank doing this, and over time went bankrupt from the same process. Supply and demand still has to have a clear limit before it'll work.

No matter how much you sell for, selling a dropped item is a profit to you.

[Tuxedose]

I always get so mad when I search for an item thats sells for like 90000 meseta in the shop and people sell it for 100% more or even worse for several milS!! why?? WHYYY?

[Niloklives]

search out the right shops. I sell everything below NPC price and sell non npc items pretty low, though my shops are pretty much empty these days since I've been away from the game for about 2 weeks.

even still what I usually sell are enemy parts, weapons and occasional less specific synth items. I keep most of what I find and these days I only sell things I find...synthing for proffit doesn't really work anymore.

we still have people trying to sell S rank synth materials for hundreds of thousands of meseta...everytime I see that, i just shake my head. there are only a handful of weapons that even USE ydral...why people want 200k-500k for a metal that makes only 3 weapons right now (and of those 3, 2 are incredibly rare) is beyond me.

Things are getting better though. I'm seeing rucars for around 20-30 mil, halarods for 11mil, me/quicks for 10mil and so on...things that had cost up to 5 times as much last month...

[panzer_unit]

I keep (and use) all the striking and ranged weapon materials I can find... but sell off any armor, tech, and S-rank mats for pretty cheap.

Before the economy got started I used to make and sell stacks of Fruit Juice for profit. People were basically paying not to spend so much time mixing hundreds of one-item PM food boards :/

[Cathbar]

Wouldn't it fix the economy if people made shops that were filled on a constant basis and sold items for NPC, or lower, prices?

The people who buy items to sell high would probably continue to do their thing, but if it were restocked all the time, the people you're trying to market towards would still be able to get some or most of the stuff. And if it kept up long enough, the "sell highers" would be forced to lower prices because you're getting all of the customers.

I don't know, maybe I'm just another newb with wishful thinking, but it seems to me like it would work. I will admit, though, that this is easier for me to do since I only sell synth items, which are cosntantly being dropped on missions, and because I don't synth anything myself. I also realise that this would be really difficult for anyone trying to market weapons or armor. But, if items for synthing were priced lower, wouldn't synthing weapons and armors become that much cheaper to make, and therefore, sell cheaper?

If I am wrong, PLEASE inform me.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-10-14 06:16, XenithFlare wrote:
^ that worked in the beginning when everyone had enough cash to do that. And then people realized that the weapons they were selling started tapering off, and stopped making up for the loss of money due to failed synths and underpricing low %s to clear them out.

I know several people who made bank doing this, and over time went bankrupt from the same process. Supply and demand still has to have a clear limit before it'll work.

No matter how much you sell for, selling a dropped item is a profit to you.



As more missions became available that dropped high level weapons like python, phantom, majimra, or even beam vulcanic - more players can sell these items below what the real cost to synth these items is. If I'm not a techer, heck, I'll sell a majimra for 250k. A shop can't keep up with that, synth rates being what they are. On the weapons and armor side of things, how many 12% and 14% weapons and armor does one need?