EX Traps: Protranser's New Best Friend (Trap Info Included)

[Rizen]

Protransers in the expansion have gone through quite a few changes; One of the biggest changes is the addition of EX Traps. EX Traps are AoE traps that stay in place for 8 seconds causing damage periodically. There have been a number of Price changes and traps are now synth-able!

The lowdown on EX Traps
Exclusive to Protransers.
Detonated like a G Trap.
Can Set off two at a time.
Causes Area of Effect damage for 8 seconds.
Can not switch out of Ex Trap or the effect goes away.
Damage occurs about every half a second.
Can hit multiple targets of an enemy.
Each hit refreshes associated Status Effect(?).
Stacks in 10s.
Damage increases with level.
New NPC Prices of Traps

Normal Traps:
Damage Traps - 50
Burning Traps - 75
Freeze Traps - 60
Poison Traps - 70
Confusion Traps - 60
Sleep Traps - 60
Virus Traps - 80
Shock Traps - 60
Silence Traps - 60
(Fireworks?) - 50

G Traps:
Damage G Traps - 300
Burning G Traps - 450
Freeze G Traps - 350
Poison G Traps - 400
Confusion G Traps - 350
Sleep G Traps - 350
Virus G Traps - 500
Shock G Traps - 350
Silence G Traps - 350

EX Traps:
Burning EX Traps - 600
Freeze EX Traps - 600 or 10 Bronze Casino Coins

Trap Synthesis:

Normal Trap Board [10 uses(?)] (10 meseta)
Trans Acid x1 (50 meseta)
{N} Berry x1 (50 meseta) || {N} Truffle (NA)
=================================
Unit Price: ~101 meseta per Trap
=================================

Trap G Board [5 uses(?)] (100 meseta)
Metho Acid x1 (100 meseta)
{N} Berry x1 (50 meseta) || {N} Truffle (NA)
=================================
Unit Price: ~160 meseta per Trap
=================================

Trap EX Board [10 uses] (300 meseta)
Ether Acid x1 (200 meseta)
{N} Berry x1 (50 meseta) || {N} Truffle (NA)
=================================
Unit Price: ~280 meseta per Trap
=================================

(NA) means Not Available at NPC
~ means About
(?) means I didn't try yet. XD
{N} means certain name

Type of Berry/Truffle needed:
Burn= Hot Berry
Freeze= Cold Berry
Damage = Bitter Berry
Poison = Poison Truffle
Confusion = Moatoob Truffle
Sleep = Sweet Berry
Virus = Rotten Truffle
Shock = Stamina Berry
Silence = Mad Truffle


Videos

Freeze Ex Trap Demo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3z0UappQnM)
Ambition of Illuminus EX Traps Demonstration (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0bDx-ZRdOk)
PSU Burn EX Trap Test Run (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63DiC2XT8fM)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2007-11-11 09:10 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2007-11-11 09:18 ]</font>

[PJ]

Stacks in TEN?

My Beast will be plenty happy. More so when he'll be able to equip all the SRank stuff (And when I eventually find the Gudda HONK HONK)

[Gen2000]

Can you switch to a weapon and attack while the EX Trap goes off?

[WildArms2]

what lv SE is the freeze and burn EX traps

are there damage EX traps?




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: WildArms2 on 2007-10-14 22:32 ]</font>

[ljkkjlcm9]

so protranser gets all S rank weapons, and exclusive traps that are amazing? Hmm, seems like all you complaining PTs got overcompensation! lol

THE JACKEL

[Niloklives]

On 2007-10-14 21:25, Gen2000 wrote:
Can you switch to a weapon and attack while the EX Trap goes off?



No

[AC9breaker]

On 2007-10-14 23:14, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
so protranser gets all S rank weapons, and exclusive traps that are amazing? Hmm, seems like all you complaining PTs got overcompensation! lol

THE JACKEL



Complaining Protranser? Yeah right.

[Gen2000]

On 2007-10-15 00:10, NIloklives wrote:

No



Tsk, figured as much. Would have made trap spamming more exciting but I see how easily that could be abused.

[Niloklives]

yeah as soon as you switch to a weapon, the trap and all its effects go away. so the trap is effective, but while it's active, you're not

[amtalx]

On 2007-10-15 01:54, NIloklives wrote:
yeah as soon as you switch to a weapon, the trap and all its effects go away. so the trap is effective, but while it's active, you're not



Ehhh... Seems like a mixed blessing to me. I'd rather tear ass WHILE doing trap damage. I'll stick with fG thanks.

[Rizen]

Who said PT couldnt tear ass. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

And to the comment about complaining PTs, the only PTs that complain are those who didn't like PT in the first place and complain in general. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I edited two things in my first post: first being the fact that if you switch out of trap, the effect will go away and slightly changed the description to damage occurs every second hitting twice.

[panzer_unit]

hehe sweet. Geez... 8 seconds of detonation alone is as good at tying enemies up as current G traps AND THEN the targets are stuck with the SE on every hit? Is that like 16 trap hits (per target) plus 8 ticks of burn in total for a Burn EX... or does re-applying the status every second keep resetting the counter?

I take it the effect is SE4?

What flavors do these come in?

[Pillan]

Well, EX traps don’t look nearly as overpowered as everyone I know was making them sound. Still, PT did need something special as the trap-using class, so Megiverse on a trap does sound fair.

Also, right now, landing the SE multiple times just resets the counter, so whatever the burn level is should wear off 10 seconds after the trap ends (though that is still 4 free ticks of whatever the burn level is). I don’t believe that you can call the explosion damage burn damage. I expect it to be neutral damage based on character level that ignores enemy STA, like the other trap types.

I’d say it almost makes me want to play PT.


EDIT:

From the burn EX trap video, you can see that the burn damage is the same as the burn G trap burn damage that she uses at the beginning. So I'd assume all EX traps are SE 3. They also have the same damage as the G traps, so it's like setting off 8 G traps at once.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-10-15 07:56 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

Wasn't it 16 G traps, for base damage?

"Damage occurs every second and hits twice"

[Pillan]

I wasn’t paying that much attention when I made that statement. In the freeze EX video, I can clearly see it hitting twice each second, but I can’t see it hitting twice in the burn EX. My guess would be that DoT effect traps don’t hit twice because they have an SE that can potentially do a lot more damage. That or I just missed it.

Anyway, you can pretend my statement was amended to say 16 if it bothers you that much. And that does make EX traps better than I thought because I was starting to think it was just one of those “everyone thinks they’re good until the newness wears off” obsessions.

[panzer_unit]

Doesn't bug me, I just wanted to sort out the conflicting information. That many hits and status effects... yeah that's a trap actually worth as much money as a photon charge.

I'm gonna carry so many of those things.

[HFlowen]

EX traps at level 100-110 deal over 1000 damage per hit.

[biggabertha]

so it's like setting off 8 G traps at once.

For a fraction of the cost!

How many EX traps can be set at one time? Just the one? Heh, with the addition of EX traps, Protransers seem to be ultimate boss killers with the exception of a fast, long ranged attack if you compare Longbows with Rifles. Still...

[HFlowen]

You can set off two at a time.

[Jaden_Korr]

...I've been avoiding knowing too much about EX traps for a reason,that reason being I didn't want to get any more excited about AoI than I already am. Gah

[Rizen]

Hmm...maybe I should be a bit more clear on refreshing Status Effects, but then again, some Status Effects apply differently. For example, with Paralysis, Silence, Freeze, Sleep, and Daze, all of them get reapplied if you get hit. As for Burn, Virus, and Poison, I believe I haven't seem them be reapplied if it is already on your or the enemy until the duration is played out. At least this is what I noticed from using Bows and Rifles.

After reading some comments about the duration and hits, I watched the videos over again, and I think that hits are determined by the position of the enemy. I think that the AoE comes from spread out pyres and not just a big circle of damage. Two reason I came up with this is: 1) when I saw enemies moving through the AoE of EX Traps, I noticed that they took more damage and 2) I thought about De Ragan's breath. Anyone who has been hit by both of De Ragan's breaths know that one hits you once and the other hits you multiple times.

A little philosophy there on EX Traps, need to do more testing. Not sure how to go about them though.



On a side note, Trap's Prices have been changed.

Normal Traps:
Damage Traps - 50
Burning Traps - 75
Freeze Traps - 60
Poison Traps - 70
Confusion Traps - 60
Sleep Traps - 60
Virus Traps - 80
Shock Traps - 60
Silence Traps - 60
(Fireworks?) - 50

G Traps:
Damage G Traps - 300
Burning G Traps - 450
Freeze G Traps - 350
Poison G Traps - 400
Confusion G Traps - 350
Sleep G Traps - 350
Virus G Traps - 500
Shock G Traps - 350
Silence G Traps - 350

EX Traps:
Burning EX Traps - 600
Freeze EX Traps - 10 Bronze Casino Coins

I think that buying traps will be a bit more pleasurable now.

[panzer_unit]

LOL burn trap for 75 bucks. I take it SE1 burn is REALLY AWESOME now?

[SolomonGrundy]

the only 'regular' trap that is worthwile is virus.

Stun EX traps are missing from this list.

lol @ damage traps. They should call them "lack of damage" traps.

Anyone but me notice that PT is moving more and more into a support role?

1. EX traps require that you stay on the trap palette
2. level 30 melee, NOT level 40
3. level 40 bullets = SE

[amtalx]

I like STs attempt to make me use lame traps by baiting me with lower prices...


On 2007-10-15 10:31, SolomonGrundy wrote:

Anyone but me notice that PT is moving more and more into a support role?

1. EX traps require that you stay on the trap palette
2. level 30 melee, NOT level 40
3. level 40 bullets = SE



I did NOT know that...sucks.

[Rizen]

PT was always meant to be a supporting class, not a pure damaging class. Thats the reason why there are so many variety of traps available.

[panzer_unit]

Yeah, Damage Traps are garbage. I tested 'em last night to see what the damage was like for a level 90 PT... still crap. I do more in a single PA move. Damage Trap EX might be a different story. 8~16 hits * 4 targets * 1000 per hit? That's a full Rapier worth of Spinning Strike.

One could argue that with our abysmal ATP right now Protransers are a combat support role too. It's best if our attacks assist stronger classes on offense and defense (SE / knockdown / launch / blow away) rather than maximizing our own DPS since it's only 3/4 that of the most appropriate Forte.

I see the lower Skill cap basically as a means of forcing Protranser to favor guns (and deal with energy limitations, which are no longer present for melee) for their most competitive form of damage output. In terms of PA I'll try to stick to the ones where there's the least growth in the last 10 levels and see if that paints a specific picture.

[Pillan]

On 2007-10-15 08:43, HFlowen wrote:
EX traps at level 100-110 deal over 1000 damage per hit.


Do you mean each hit or the sum of hitting several enemies each tick? Looking at the Burn EX video, you see a level 83 only dealing 260 damage to level 20 enemies, so it's hard for me to believe a level 110 will be dealing more than 400.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-10-15 11:02, panzer_unit wrote:

One could argue that with our abysmal ATP right now Protransers are a combat support role too. It's best if our attacks assist stronger classes on offense and defense (SE / knockdown / launch / blow away) rather than maximizing our own DPS since it's only 3/4 that of the most appropriate Forte.

I see the lower Skill cap basically as a means of forcing Protranser to favor guns (and deal with energy limitations, which are no longer present for melee) for their most competitive form of damage output. In terms of PA I'll try to stick to the ones where there's the least growth in the last 10 levels and see if that paints a specific picture.



On the plus side sleep traps may become worthwhile in AoI.

It's funny because Transer ATP in PSU right now made me think melee with heavy weapons (sword, spear, axe, saber), and in the expansion, they are now reduced to LESS than Wartechers? (who are the worst of the melee classes currently).

Even with increased ATP, they still have less than fF, FiG, fG, AF, and WT. And with only level 30 skills (and critical hits now out of the picture I wonder just what Sega is thinking with this job...

*gib level 40 skills plz*

[Pillan]

On 2007-10-15 11:02, panzer_unit wrote:
I see the lower Skill cap basically as a means of forcing Protranser to favor guns (and deal with energy limitations, which are no longer present for melee) for their most competitive form of damage output. In terms of PA I'll try to stick to the ones where there's the least growth in the last 10 levels and see if that paints a specific picture.


Actually, I’d say the lower skill cap is to stop it from being overpowered. 40 bullets doesn’t hurt since PT has the same ATA as fF, making the extra 10 bullet levels still result in less real damage/time than GT. The lower skill cap was necessary to keep PT from having the full extent of fF’s melee power along with all of these ranged weapons and EX traps. Besides, thanks to Just/Timed Attack, the level 30 skills will result in higher numbers than the 40 bullets anyway.

The goal is to make PT suffer in its potential for being so versatile. It’s the same problem WT has as well.

[Rizen]

Protransers have far more available to them than any class in the expansion. Why complain?

In my opinion, Protransers don't need 40 skills. I was surprised we got 40 bullets, which is well more than enough for what we need. Protranser's focus was meant to be around Traps, not for just melee or just for ranged as many people who play Protranser recently think. All of Protranser's weapons are based around crowd control and status effects. Limiting yourself on just one of three spectrums of Protranser is gimping youself. All in all, if we ever get 40 skills, it would be nice. If not, I'm not complaining.

But I will say this though, with lv 40 bullets and S ranks now available, Protransers will be the strongest bow users.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-10-15 12:22, Pillan wrote:
Actually, I’d say the lower skill cap is to stop it from being overpowered. 40 bullets doesn’t hurt since PT has the same ATA as fF, making the extra 10 bullet levels still result in less real damage/time than GT. The lower skill cap was necessary to keep PT from having the full extent of fF’s melee power along with all of these ranged weapons and EX traps. Besides, thanks to Just/Timed Attack, the level 30 skills will result in higher numbers than the 40 bullets anyway.

The goal is to make PT suffer in its potential for being so versatile. It’s the same problem WT has as well.


Good point about ATA, though I'm used to zeroes being quite rare on any kind of accurate attack. Hopefully they stay that way. Judging by how things play right now, I'd say PT's overwhelming disadvantage as a gunner is going to be PP capacity and regeneration. No breaks to cost or boosts to regen. ATP mod is close enough not to make a difference and ATA isn't a huge issue except on our least accurate attacks or the most evasive enemies... for now.

Looking at the comparison with Fighgunner, our ATP's pretty close... 110% vs 126%. If PT had lv40 skills it would almost be a no-brainer to choose PT over FG and trade a bit of base ATP for far stronger options when it comes to range and traps. Even 10 skill levels aren't _necessarily_ a huge difference... you can get a better or worse deal depending on the skill's base ATP% (the higher the better for PT) and per-level increases from 30 to 40 (the lower the better) ... something like Gravity Break gaining 2% ATP from 30 to 40 would only work out to a 5% damage boost. Not enough for me to cry about.

[Kion]

On 2007-10-15 10:31, SolomonGrundy wrote:

1. EX traps require that you stay on the trap palette
2. level 30 melee, NOT level 40
3. level 40 bullets = SE




Level 40 bullets != SE. Bullets don't get an SE boost from 30-31, only element, so i don't see how that logic holds.

The having to stay on the trap pallet for EX sounds like a drag. Even though it does do alot of damage on it's own, i'd want to pull out my sword for a few free hits of gravity break while a freeze EX trap is owning every enemy in the room. i can imagine some PT planting an EX trap and then standing around in the back of the party with no weapon equipped looking like a free loader. A "*whistling*" macro should be required for those situations.

And level 30 skills is enough. PT is more of a tactical class than anything. Traps and weapons for close range support and SE and big guns for ranged support. Level 30 skills still allows PT to do juggling, along with decent damage with critcles hitting high damage here and there. While level 40 bullets lets PT keep up with the damage of fGg and stay in a fairly safe location still able to move around the party.

With the insane ATP mods on gravity and jarroba, EX taps, and that fG gweapons are going to be completely broken (lol SE3 on lasers), there's really no room to complain for what PT is getting.

[panzer_unit]

I'd prefer to do the alt-m dance right in the middle of the trap effect... or "@s90OMG YOU GUYS ARE BURNING WOAH" with the dumbass alt-n dance.

Protranser: it's all about how well you talk trash during your EX trap explosion.

[AC9breaker]

On 2007-10-15 13:18, panzer_unit wrote:
Protranser: it's all about how well you talk trash during your EX trap explosion.



I concur.

[SolomonGrundy]

Actually, I’d say the lower skill cap is to stop it from being overpowered.

How do you figure? If FiG is not over powered with SE3 crossbows and level 40 skills, how is a PT with lower HP, ATP, DFP and crits being removed from the equation.

or do you think that S rank melee weapons will let PTs bridge the gap?

(Because S rank ranged weapons have stats that are only incrementally better. For example: +50 ATP, +20 ATA, +70 PP for the 10* grenade launcher.
And until S rank grinder boards are released, the PP and ATP gains are somewhat meaningless.)

[panzer_unit]

That's for regular "brand name" S-ranks. The special Kubara S-rank weapons (Svaltus Sword, Bil De Axe) are pretty damned incredible for stats... monsterous ATP and PP capacities. PP will still be important since their PA's aren't exactly hit-spam fare like Twin Sabers / Twin Daggers.

Also Laser Cannons in AOI got an absurd power boost. I don't think there's any ranged weapon that can even pretend to compare to level 40 laser skills.

[Rizen]

Lets focus the subject on PT and not compare to other classes.

And in the future, I don't believe PT will be able to use higher S rank weapons (guns maybe). That could also be a balancing factor for giving S ranks.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2007-10-15 14:23 ]</font>

[Niloklives]

where are you getting that infor from? theres no such thing as an "S2 rare" as far as we know. how can you make such blind speculation?

even if that WERE there case, they still can use stronger versions of many of their weapons than the more fighter oriented classes and can use better versions of some of theur guns than a few hybrids as well their lower stats will be slightly offset by that alone.

I followed the entire thread and I'm STILL not sure how this turned into a debate of the level of gimpness PT flaunts. The class was fun and playable before, it's more fun and exceedingly more playable now. this class easily go the biggest share of the upgrade pie, let it go. if you enjoyed the class before, you're likely not complaining about the class now. If you hated the class before, and you don't like it now, let it go, and if you like the class and you still want more, you're probably one of the same people who wanted S rank claws and lvl 30 support for WTs. the classes are much better balanced than they were before. its fine, leave it alone.

Shit, how many of you guys have even played with all the new toys and upgrades to see how it all works out? even -I- haven't been able to look at everything, so this entire discussion is mainly based on hearsay and conjecture.

Tje topic of this thread is EX traps. if you have something to say about EX traps, say it, otherwise, lets let the topic die and if you really must continue this insipid debate, do it in a new thread.

[Rizen]

On 2007-10-15 15:22, NIloklives wrote:
where are you getting that infor from? theres no such thing as an "S2 rare" as far as we know. how can you make such blind speculation?

I never said anything about S2 rare. When I say higher S ranks, I am referring to later weapons that will be 12+. They could very easily adjust the requirements high enough so that PTs can not reach them.

I do not make blind speculation, I make well educated guess based on information gathered and experienced. In the past, I have been able to hit ALOT of things on the head just by guessing. Don't believe me? Read some of my older threads.


Shit, how many of you guys have even played with all the new toys and upgrades to see how it all works out? even -I- haven't been able to look at everything, so this entire discussion is mainly based on hearsay and conjecture.
I will admit, I haven't tried everything yet in AoI, but I am in the process of doing so. I did, however, play PT ever since they were released in NA and have followed them very closely ever since. I'm not saying that I am 100% qualified to make these "conjectures", but I am qualified to make predictions.

Also, quite a few of these people who have posted here have played PT thoroughly and know what they are talking about.


Tje topic of this thread is EX traps. if you have something to say about EX traps, say it, otherwise, lets let the topic die and if you really must continue this insipid debate, do it in a new thread.
I don't mind the discussion. Its PT related. I do mind the comparison of one class to another.

[SolomonGrundy]

this class easily go the biggest share of the upgrade pie

They got: Access to S ranks, "trap vision", and exclusive EX trap use.
They did lose a step when it comes to melee though.

back on topic though. Since G traps have SE level3, EX traps seem to have SE3, can anyone comment on how long the stun from Stun EX traps lasts?

[Rizen]

When you start using Just Attack, you will realized that PT hasn't lost a step in melee. I guess thats something you have to wait and see.

And from my knowledge, there is no Stun EX Trap. If there is, isn't available yet. There are some EX traps in offline data that I don't know about.

[SolomonGrundy]

everyone keeps saying Just Attack like higher ATP higher level skill jobs cannot to it.

[Rizen]

Why are you so obsessed with comparing PT to other classes? PT nor any other class is on the same parallel.

Reason we keep saying Just Attack is because you keep making it seem like PTs ability to melee is reduced since they don't get lv 40 Skills. We are trying to say that there are other ways to keep up with damage dealing than just having higher PA skill levels. Right now in AoI, I am a lv 42 Protranser 1 Human with Rising Strike 16 and I happily do 320-400+ damage on enemies and around 130-250 on higher defense/shield mobs each hit of Rising Strike with Just Attack.

If you looking for lv 40 Skill class and a high heavy hitting damaging class, you are sadly thinking about the wrong class.

[Zabrio]

On 2007-10-15 10:15, Rizen wrote:
Hmm...maybe I should be a bit more clear on refreshing Status Effects, but then again, some Status Effects apply differently. For example, with Paralysis, Silence, Freeze, Sleep, and Daze, all of them get reapplied if you get hit. As for Burn, Virus, and Poison, I believe I haven't seem them be reapplied if it is already on your or the enemy until the duration is played out. At least this is what I noticed from using Bows and Rifles.

After reading some comments about the duration and hits, I watched the videos over again, and I think that hits are determined by the position of the enemy. I think that the AoE comes from spread out pyres and not just a big circle of damage. Two reason I came up with this is: 1) when I saw enemies moving through the AoE of EX Traps, I noticed that they took more damage and 2) I thought about De Ragan's breath. Anyone who has been hit by both of De Ragan's breaths know that one hits you once and the other hits you multiple times.

A little philosophy there on EX Traps, need to do more testing. Not sure how to go about them though.



On a side note, Trap's Prices have been changed.

Normal Traps:
Damage Traps - 50
Burning Traps - 75
Freeze Traps - 60
Poison Traps - 70
Confusion Traps - 60
Sleep Traps - 60
Virus Traps - 80
Shock Traps - 60
Silence Traps - 60
De Ragon's breath (fireworks) - 50

G Traps:
Damage G Traps - 300
Burning G Traps - 450
Freeze G Traps - 350
Poison G Traps - 400
Confusion G Traps - 350
Sleep G Traps - 350
Virus G Traps - 500
Shock G Traps - 350
Silence G Traps - 350

EX Traps:
Burning EX Traps - 600
Freeze EX Traps - 10 Bronze Casino Coins

I think that buying traps will be a bit more pleasurable now.


fixed http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Rizen]

Is it really De Ragan's Breath?

Edit: I will go with you on this one. I wasn't around long enough to get De Ragan's Breath on NA.

Edit2: Just got finished asking on IRC if it was De Ragan's Breath and they said its not the same one. They said its call Rising Firework.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2007-10-15 19:45 ]</font>

[Niloklives]

On 2007-10-15 16:45, SolomonGrundy wrote:

this class easily go the biggest share of the upgrade pie

They got: Access to S ranks, "trap vision", and exclusive EX trap use.
They did lose a step when it comes to melee though.

back on topic though. Since G traps have SE level3, EX traps seem to have SE3, can anyone comment on how long the stun from Stun EX traps lasts?



you forgot their massive ATP boost. they didn't "lose" a step in melee, they didn't take another step forward...but the now roughly 40% atp boost(as I understand it), their melee game is just slightly underpar compared to the other melee oriented classes. were they given lvl 40 skills it would have been another balance issue considering they can use heavy weapons. it would mean they could do damage on par with fortefighters while being able to act as a fortegunner when needed...it's a bit much, but on the flip side, at least they get the ata bonuses that come with lvl 40 bullets. that will up their hit rates quite a bit.

so Rizen, with these new constraints, they have stats high enough now to be able to equip all S ranks available to their class. with a lvl 80 female human PT able to equip all S rank ranged up to 12* already and sitting at 600 atp before the AoI patch, it pretty much means that with lvl 200 and class lvl 20 on the horizon, we'd be talking about some seriously high requirements to not be able to use these upcoming weapons.

in any case I've said quite plainly that there are veteran PTs out there. I know panzer quite well and am aware of hisability. but PTs have been made much more powerful in the expansion, and while he seems satisfied with the changes, there are those who want more, in most cases, I'm up fr letting people have what they want, and I would raise a fuss like this, but the reality is the class may now be broken as it is and they want to make it stronger. it's madness.

[CelestialBlade]

Question about SEs in general, related to traps....

In AoI, can SE3 still overwrite SE4? I like the idea of traps, but it's annoying when I've already inflicted SE4 Burn on everything and someone runs in with a G Trap and overwrites it. It's something that's needed fixing for a while.

[amtalx]

I don't think they are broken. They still suffer from weak stat mods. They just don't have super-gimp status like the PSU v1 days. The fact remains that PTs will never outdamage another class with their weaponry. Someone else can do it better...always. PTs will always miss more, and do less damage with a fG weapon than I do, and thats fine by me. Their ability to change roles is what makes them useful.

[Niloklives]

I'm saying they're norderline..just cause they can't kill the fastest doesn't mean they're in any way gimped. they've got versatility through the roof and two exclusive abilities. plus unlike v1 they've actually got ATP ...the reality is PTs got a major upgrade and giving them anymore would be nuts at this point

[panzer_unit]

All I want, really, is for the game system changes and level caps to work out so I've got good reasons to use guns, melee, and traps as a Protranser. Right now I'm guessing melee for main damage output, EX traps for specific targets, and guns mainly for status effects.

God I've got no clue how I'm going to balance out my PA's, I'm going to want a lot more prism skills. I guess if I can just disk the non-protranser skills I've got I'll have space for most of it.

[Niloklives]

the disk system will fix a lot of the disarray.

[panzer_unit]

It's still going to be tight unless you're putting specific elements on disk as well.

Ideally I'd have full elements for bow, handgun, shotgun, and laser. That's 24 already... letting me squeeze 2 skills for grenade and each melee weapon I can use. That's pretty tight.

I can do something like dropping all my Light element bullets (unless I'm going to HIVE clearly) to free some more space. I wouldn't be surprised though if dark monsters are a good bit more widespread in AOI.

[Niloklives]

yeah but you can likely drop your ground bullets in most places as well as your lightning. that can easily cut your 24 down to 16 if you kick out a couple light bullets as well. you don't really need all six bullets for 4 different gun types at all times.

[panzer_unit]

Like hell I don't, NIl! *desperately clutches element bullets*

Seriously though I do use a pretty wide variety of bullet types. I'll change up depending on enemy types, enemy elements, or even to better go with what a teammate's shooting. The ONE element I'd be willing to give the toss to in general is Light... never gets element bonuses outside of Clyez, meanwhile Earth does 5% more damage always and shuts up casters better (no healing or debuffs).

EDIT: probably I'm going to end up swapping skills depending on what I want to level up, or to specialize for a particular world. Unless it costs a ton of money to swap skills in and out it's exactly the same as grabbing a correct set of melee weapons.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-10-16 07:57 ]</font>

[Niloklives]

or you can beat up the casters before they get a chance to cast...just a thought

[SolomonGrundy]

you forgot their massive ATP boost. they didn't "lose" a step in melee, they didn't take another step forward...but the now roughly 40% atp boost(as I understand it), their melee game is just slightly underpar compared to the other melee oriented classes.

while I am happy they got an ATP boost, so did every other job. And while other melee classes got "+10" to thier melee ability, PT did not. This means 'relatively' they lost ground. They did gain ground vs Guntechers in the ATP realm, but guntechers, more than any other job, relies on DoT for damage, rather than straight ATP.

[panzer_unit]

Sol, we went from like 80% ATP to 110%. That's a 30% modifier gain. Fighgunner and Fortegunner only got 10% each, right? Fighgunner's going from almost 50% stronger (116/80) to a fairly insignificant lead (126/110) ... if PT didn't lose out on skill caps we'd be dead-even if not ahead of FG (grinded S-rank spears, swords, axes vs base stats advantage) as the #2 damaging melee class.

I don't see any ground being "lost" there.

[Rizen]

On 2007-10-16 03:56, NIloklives wrote:
so Rizen, with these new constraints, they have stats high enough now to be able to equip all S ranks available to their class. with a lvl 80 female human PT able to equip all S rank ranged up to 12* already and sitting at 600 atp before the AoI patch, it pretty much means that with lvl 200 and class lvl 20 on the horizon, we'd be talking about some seriously high requirements to not be able to use these upcoming weapons.

I see your point here, but if things continue to play out the way they have before, we probably won't be seeing lv 200 class 20 any time soon. The AoI release has the level cap set at lv 110 and the class level cap at 15. I believe that is enough for PT to use all 12 S ranks. It could take a while for level cap to increase and even 13* weapons to be release. In the past, PTs had to wait for level caps to go up to use A ranks and every raise lead to more A ranks to be used. Maybe I should have been a bit more clear when I said make the requirements high enough that PTs can't use.

As for the ATP bonus, I'm happy about it.

[amtalx]

On 2007-10-16 11:53, panzer_unit wrote:
Sol, we went from like 80% ATP to 110%. That's a 30% modifier gain. Fighgunner and Fortegunner only got 10% each, right?



If my sources are correct all classes got +15% except for PT, which got +30%.

[SolomonGrundy]

Sol, we went from like 80% ATP to 110%. That's a 30% modifier gain. Fighgunner and Fortegunner only got 10% each, right? Fighgunner's going from almost 50% stronger (116/80) to a fairly insignificant lead (126/110) ... if PT didn't lose out on skill caps we'd be dead-even if not ahead of FG (grinded S-rank spears, swords, axes vs base stats advantage) as the #2 damaging melee class.

But they didn't get the bump to 40 skills. And other jobs DID get the bump in skills. Then adding AF to the mix further complicates the melee picture. Skill level is becoming just as important as atp with the modification to elemental damage.

Now, do I love the ATP bump for use with weapons like shotgun, and pistol? Ab-so-fucking-lutely. However I admit to being thrown into some confusion over level 30 skills 'thang'

[panzer_unit]

Skills are all over the goddamned place in terms of how close lv30 and lv40 will be for damage. Pick the right ones and you won't notice a big disadvantage.

[SolomonGrundy]

so you know all the level 40 modifiers now? if so, I'm dying to know them.

[Rizen]

Its only 10% man. -_- Dont have a cow over it.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-10-16 13:21, Rizen wrote:
Its only 10% man. -_- Dont have a cow over it.



I have no idea if it is. It could be less, it could be more. I don't know. Ceratinly I'd expect it to be more for a skill like gravity break.

[HFlowen]

Gravity break gains 20% atp from 30 to 40.

The more interesting thing about levels 30 to 40 is that skills that usually have static ATA rates actually increase.

[panzer_unit]

... well they'd better get something for going to lv40, because going from 400% ATP to 420% is craptacular. Your OMG BIG NUMBER only gets ~5% bigger. All the stats are on the JP wiki, but I always get the link for that from PSUPedia, which is down.

Otherwise I'd have posted a list of "favorable" PT/WT skills already. Protransers and Wartechers are on their most solid ground (damage wise) sticking to skills that have high base ATP modifiers and low growth.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-10-16 14:13 ]</font>

[HFlowen]

There are some better examples of ATP growth to 40.

Anga Jabroga goes from 330% to 410%. That's kind of to be expected though, it had crazy leveling rates to begin with,

[panzer_unit]

I guess I'll have to kill myself with Boma Duranga 40 instead of throwing myself under the dragon's feet with Jabroga lol.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-10-16 14:33, panzer_unit wrote:
I guess I'll have to kill myself with Boma Duranga 40 instead of throwing myself under the dragon's feet with Jabroga lol.



guess you will http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Pillan]

On 2007-10-16 14:33, panzer_unit wrote:
I guess I'll have to kill myself with Boma Duranga 40 instead of throwing myself under the dragon's feet with Jabroga lol.


It's what? 400% x 8 minus the berserk penalty in the same time as 330% x 1.5 x 10, right?

I'd say Jabronga 30 still wins.

[panzer_unit]

I thought Duranga hit 390% at lv30. Hopefully it's 410~420 at lv40.

Grenades have a much higher rate of fire than Jabroga... I think I'll watch about 6 fly over my head for every axe strike I can pull off. On the other hand I _am_ going to blow through all my 'mates using Duranga while there's a chance I don't with Jabroga. Depends on what I'm hitting and how.

[HFlowen]

Boma Duranga 30 is 350% atp

level 40 is 400% atp

[panzer_unit]

Ah, thanks. That's some smexy ATP growth too.

Maybe it's wrong to consider shelving a move based on Fortefighter doing a ridiculous amount more damage... probably it's best to compare the moves I've got as they are and disk the ones that don't work as well as others for me as a PT.

[HFlowen]

I keep getting this info from the psu wiki by the way. (http://psu.fei-yen.jp/wiki/html/)

In case you wanted to just look stuff up yourself.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-10-17 08:59, HFlowen wrote:
I keep getting this info from the psu wiki by the way. (http://psu.fei-yen.jp/wiki/html/)

In case you wanted to just look stuff up yourself.



that's great, but I don't speak Kanji. Google translator didn't cut it either.

[panzer_unit]

wow did they ever boost the hell out of melee skill damage... the numbers look like most level 40 skills will be from 200%~300% base damage

Bogga Danga ... 1% ATP per level
Bogga Robado ... 1% ATP per level w/ crazy base damage boost (one of the best for lv30 damage vs lv40)
Bogga Zubba ... 3% ATP per level

Anga Redda ... 2% ATP per level
Anga Durega ... 3% ATP per level ending up at some ridiculous 300%+
Anga Jabroga ... 5, 6, 7, 8% per level each tier, yeah 410% max

Gravity Strike ... 1% per level, max 160%
Rising Strike ... 1% per level, max 220% (one of the best lv30/lv40 comparisons)
Spinning Strike ... 2, 2, 1, 4% per level (note the interesting dip for classes with lv30 skill cap, we barely get a damage boost vs lv20 cap and then lv40 cap blows all of us away)

Spinning Break ... 1% per level to 215%
Tornado Break ... 1% per level to 180%
Gravity Break ... 2% per level to 420%
(all sword skills seem pretty good for lv30 cap, like we're not missing anything exciting)

[Carlo210]

These Ex Traps are good, but think about this for a second. 600meseta for an ex burn trap that does aoe damage of around 250-300 every 2 seconds (and more damage later on). 500 meseta for a photon charge to use after spamming the heck out of an aoe/multitarget PA.
The Ex traps are definately awesome and have moments in which they shine (watch the youtube videos posted in the OP), but I'm just saying that this kinda of all-out aoe damage isn't exactly a breakthrough.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Carlo210 on 2007-10-18 11:13 ]</font>

[Pillan]

I believe it’s 250-300 every half second for 8 seconds. And, personally, I’m glad you can’t do anything else while an EX trap is going off because that would be as broken as those fTs who choose to lag themselves to double cast the button hold spells simultaneously.

But I’d argue G traps are still more useful just because I can get the SE I need in an instant and then switch to a higher damage skill (unless there are more than 4 targets, where a trap that hits 6 targets max and lasts long enough for more enemies to walk into it would be more ideal). The two classes I could see making a lot more use of EX traps are fG and GT, but they don’t get them…

[panzer_unit]

The two classes of EX trap that exist are perfect.

Freeze EX - having your targets constantly re-freezing for 8 seconds lets your entire team wail on them for ages without fear of reprisal from what they're hitting or anything wandering through the area. Forget DOT's, these are what I'm going to be packing on teams in AOI. I spell DOT like this: "that Fortefighter over there"

Burn EX - extra ticks of burn from re-applying the status over 8 seconds of detonation, and the ability to carry 10, make these sound like a sweet deal for soloing. Large flammable monster? *booooooom* + kick = problem solved.

Virus? Regular virus traps are generally good enough for me, they'll outperform Virus G except under almost perfect conditions for the G's. An EX version would be pretty ridiculous.

I'd like to see a Damage EX trap... obsolete all those 6-second incapacitation statuses with 8 seconds straight of being launched into the air with plenty of damage behind it (and no getting creamed like you would using PA's for the same thing, sometimes a monster goes straight into an un-interruptible counter attack when you do something cheesy like that)

[Rizen]

Good news guys! I just found out that we can synth all traps now! That includes EX traps! XD

I will get back to you on the materials to synth them.

Also, a note about Freeze Trap EX...you can get a stack free everyday if you wanted. If you consider the fact that it costs 10 bronze to buy and you get 1 silver each day, its pretty much a lazy mans to getting it. XD

[panzer_unit]

But you've gotta stop off at the casino to grab more. Isn't that a pain? It's not like other traps where you can spam off a stack every mission and restock at the lobby NPC.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-10-18 13:52 ]</font>

[Pillan]

Well, you can always force your friends to synth them and carry them for you while you’re playing. (Like a certain someone I know said he’d do…)

[Rizen]

True, and its a 400 meseta teleport from NPC...so not 100% free unless you got a friend there.


Boards and Ingredients:
Normal Trap Board [10 uses(?)] (10 meseta)
Trans Acid x1 (50 meseta)
{N} Berry x1 (50 meseta)/{N} Truffle (NA)
Unit Price: ~101 meseta per

Trap G Board [10 uses(?)] (100 meseta)
Metho Acid x1 (100 meseta)
{N} Berry x1 (50 meseta)/{N} Truffle (NA)
Unit Price: ~160 meseta per Trap

Trap EX Board [10 uses] (300 meseta)
Ether Acid x1 (200 meseta)
{N} Berry x1 (50 meseta)/{N} Truffle (NA)
Unit Price: ~280 meseta per Trap

(NA) means Not Available at NPC
~ means About
(?) means I didn't try yet. XD

Type of Berry/Truffle needed:
Burn= Hot Berry
Freeze= Cold Berry

I will post more info when I am outside a mission.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2007-10-18 14:10 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

lol normal traps are more expensive to synth than buy.

[Rizen]

I laughed at that too.

To go on with my list:

Type of Berry/Truffle needed:
Damage = Bitter Berry
Poison = Poison Truffle
Confusion = Moatoob Truffle
Sleep = Sweet Berry
Virus = Rotten Truffle
Shock = Stamina Berry
Silence = Mad Truffle

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2007-10-18 15:22 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

It took a couple of seconds before I realized "hey I could just pick the berries on missions". Duh. One of my characters has a stack of Trans Acid from doing low-rank missions as well.

[biggabertha]

Damage = Bitter Berry
Burn= Hot Berry
Freeze= Cold Berry
Poison = Poison Truffle
Confusion = Moatoob Truffle
Sleep = Sweet Berry
Virus = Rotten Truffle
Shock = Stamina Berry
Silence = Mad Truffle

I knew getting eighteen stacks of each one of these berries was going to be worth it in some way or another! BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!! With eight stacks of acids wrapped up I'm SO going to save money on traps!

...

Unless traps have a less than 100% success rate then I'm going to go nuts. At least this way, it's possible to make an extremely cheap pure ranged PM. Not as cheap as say, De Ragan traps but hey, you can only really do that once a year, right? I wonder what you need to synth some of them.... Which berry is left over now? Hustle Berry?

[AC9breaker]

Hustle berries are the shit. You use them to make the all buff consumable items. Poison truffles as well.

[panzer_unit]

Yeah but I want to be able to make Hustle Traps... you know the ones that look like an innocent game of dice in a dark alley?

[Rizen]

Good news! Stun EX traps have made it to light! They work like other EX traps, but I believe it also push back enemies a bit more than the others while stunning them for a short time.

I will upload a video when I have it compressed and uploaded.

Edit: Not sure why it turned out so dark but here it is!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MlZe6l7mxI

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2007-10-29 12:39 ]</font>

[Carlo210]

How much did those cost?

[Rizen]

I made a unit price formula on my first post. It is not available for purchase at NPC but it will probably be 600 like the other 2.

Trap EX Board [10 uses] (300 meseta)
Ether Acid x1 (200 meseta)
{N} Berry x1 (50 meseta) || {N} Truffle (NA)
=================================
Unit Price: ~280 meseta per Trap
=================================

[AC9breaker]

Thanks for all the info Riz. <(^o^)>

[Carlo210]

Rizen, synthing traps will only work for so long. Once you use them all, you're gonna have to resort to buying them from the lobby.

[HFlowen]

I'd like to know how EX trap damage is calculated. If you have an idea that is.

[Rizen]

On 2007-11-11 13:32, Carlo210 wrote:
Rizen, synthing traps will only work for so long. Once you use them all, you're gonna have to resort to buying them from the lobby.
Thats why you carry extra synth materials in Presents and use Room stops when needed!


On 2007-11-11 13:48, HFlowen wrote:
I'd like to know how EX trap damage is calculated. If you have an idea that is.
No idea. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif But I roughly remember that a 110/15 PT does about 250-360 dmg per tick. I will have to do more testing.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2007-11-11 13:57 ]</font>

[Carlo210]

Do the traps make up for their low ATP (which is only a 120% modifier, compared to AF's 138%ish and FF's 165%ish)? Not to mention PT only gets level 30 skills.

[Rizen]

Well more than enough. And I don't not like to compare classes. Each class has their own purpose.

Protranser's is traps and versatility. We may "only" get lv 30 skills, but thats far more than what we need to do what we have to do.

[Carlo210]

True, I was just wondering. The only difference between PT and FF is gun availability, Ex Traps, Skill Cap, and ATP. PTs get guns and Ex Traps while FF get better skils and a 45% higher ATP modifier. Otherwise, they have the same melee weapons.
I was just wondering how it balanced out.

[panzer_unit]

PT's look like they should primarily focus on providing ranged support for other fighters, mainly because they've got great weapon classes for doing that. They'll be able to melee well enough if that's a role that needs filling, but unlike all other hybrid fighter classes that seems pretty clearly meant to be a secondary role.

[Pillan]

I'd argue it's as clear as it is in AT's case. To me, it seems like PT's primary ability is as a trap master and both melee and ranged damage are subcategories added on because of the low trap limit. I bet a PT could get away with just meleeing until dealing with a flying mob if they wanted to and the team would have a faster run clear time than the same team with a PT who focused on ranged damage/SEs.

I’m not saying not to use guns, but I am saying I doubt it’s a necessity in most cases.

[Carlo210]

And, because of JA and the new pp regen, a PT would be better off meleeing. Try using level 40 bullets with no reduction in pp consumption and no bonus to pp regen. You'll get dry really quick - quick enough to burn through your photon charges.

[Zael]

Not shotguns.

[Carlo210]

Shotguns run out slower than other guns, but they aren't an exception in any way shape or form.

[Zael]

Yes they are. Even with HPC on my Guntecher, I still don't run out of PCs playing missions with shotgun spamming. Shotguns last long and they recharge fast enough to the point where you don't have to worry about PP usage wth them. Shotguns are an exception to your "you'll dry out fast enough to burn out your PCs" statement.

[Carlo210]

Ah, true.

Hm, they may not be the melee replacers that they used to be thanks to the new melee system.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-11-11 18:00, Pillan wrote:
I'd argue it's as clear as it is in AT's case. To me, it seems like PT's primary ability is as a trap master and both melee and ranged damage are subcategories added on because of the low trap limit. I bet a PT could get away with just meleeing until dealing with a flying mob if they wanted to and the team would have a faster run clear time than the same team with a PT who focused on ranged damage/SEs.

I'm thinking that if your team came across a Kog or something, the PT would do best to pull out a grenade launcher and keep the thing (and secondary targets nearby) knocked down/burning so it's not interrupting everyone else's PA combos. Sure you could use an Freeze EX trap too, I'd save mine for those crazy situations with three Kogs or whatever.

For smaller targets, using a laser could make sure that everyone else gets the best out of their PA target limits.

That's supposing you don't have a Fortegunner doing the same thing, in which case you can switch over to melee no problem.