So... the acrofighter?

[Elley]

What is their niche exactly? I am wanting to try something new (other than fighgunner). They specialize in one handed melee and attack fast. Is that it? Why would one choose acrofigher over acrotecher? Also, would a beast be ok to play for acrotecher? What would be the most optimal race?

Thanks!

[Xaeris]

You would choose an acrofighter over an acrotecher if your primary interest were melee. AF has a 40 striking cap and a less restrictive weapon selection (including slicers) compared to AT's 20 striking cap and extremely narrow selection. Plus, AF is better with bullets, having access to the same ranged weapons and the ability to use them at a 30 bullet cap. Additionally, AF has the ability to use DoT traps (burn, poison, virus) whereas AT gets all the other addling traps.

All in all, I wouldn't say they have a niche...their job boils down to stabbing things, just like the other fighters, but they get to do it with a certain variety of weapons that appeal to some people.

As for AT's best race...yeah, that's gonna be the subject of some fights in the future. Personally, I'd say human, but the core of the job isn't particuarly reliant on any stat, and the rest of it is stifled by a 20 striking cap so it wouldn't really express itself. You'd be fine in choosing based on aesthetic.

[SolomonGrundy]

AF only get SE3 access is via traps and pistols. That's one difference. It's also the only class to get S rank shadoogs, which do additional damage while you are melee-ing.

No twin swords though, oddly, since originally I think it got them a an S rank level during the beta.

good candidates for solid power S, or a skill save unit.

[Neith]

On 2007-10-25 00:59, SolomonGrundy wrote:
No twin swords though, oddly, since originally I think it got them a an S rank level during the beta.


Yeah, the class got changed a little. It lost S-Rank Twin Sabers (now has them upto A-Rank), and gained a couple of weapon types (I think it was Twin Claws, and a couple of others, though it was a while ago so I can't really remember)

[CelestialBlade]

On 2007-10-25 00:59, SolomonGrundy wrote:
AF only get SE3 access is via traps and pistols. That's one difference. It's also the only class to get S rank shadoogs, which do additional damage while you are melee-ing.



Guntechers get S-rank Shadoogs too.

[Guildenstern]

I'm going to try Newman Acrofighter http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif It looks like it'll be a lot of fun to try! HP drain fans + super evasion = a blast.

AF looks like one of those classes where no matter what you pick, you'll be good at something. So just have fun with it!

[Rizen]

Look in my sig for my video section and look at the clips I posted there. Most of them are when I was a low level Acrofighter and I was trying out slicers etc.

[razkal]

I'm choosing Acrotekker though and heres my view on races for acros:

Acros get 5% bonus for being human.

So you end up having:

HP: C EVP: B
ATP: C END: A
DFP: B TAP: B
ATA: C MST: B

AT lv 10 stat mods:
HP: 110%
ATP: 96%
ATA: 140%
TP: 130%
DFP: 100%
EVP: 210%
MST: 180%
STA: 100%


AF lv 10 stat mods:
HP: 124%
ATP: 124%
ATA: 130%
TP: 136%
DFP: 140%
EVP: 230%
MST: 100%
STA: 120%

Female Acrofighter stats:

100/10 Human Newman Beast Cast

HP 2364 2106 2615 2470

ATP 838 726 943 871

ATA 424 436 339 469

TP 276 298 201 175

DFP 223 196 219 236

EVP 780 800 685 572

MST 202 304 134 117

STA 12 12 12 12



With a 5% bonus, great TP, EVP and DFP ; which class can do better as an acro? Newmans will have less ATP/HP, needed for up close melee/guns and beasts/cast will not have enough TP to use shadoogs/madoogs effectively.

I'd put newman/beast in second place depending on if you want tek or melee damage. Wouldn't even try the classes as a cast cause they have no TP.

[Carlo210]

5% differences make hardly any difference.

[SolomonGrundy]

I thought AF was 12/14 for END?

[razkal]

Got the specs from someone here so I/they could be wrong, not sure. 5% may not make a difference to you but it does make the humes even more well rounded, add a hard power charge and you are all set.

[Pillan]

Those appear to be the old AF stats. You can see the current ones here (http://psu.fei-yen.jp/wiki/html/A5CDA5C3A5C8A5EFA1BCA5AFA5E2A1BCA5C92FC0EFC6AEA5BF A5A4A5D72FA5B9A5C6A1BCA5BFA5B9.html#l96957e7) and the AT stats are right below.

Also, I'd say it's fairly obvious that it's hard to make AF and AT suck regardless of race simply because it's a class that humans are supposed to excel in.

[razkal]

Thanks with the updated info. I agree with you Pillan, but I would definitely not pick a cast for the role. All other 3 would work just fine in my eyes.

[SolomonGrundy]

Anyone notice Human females get 15 endurance. This ties with fG endurance...nice. though I kinda wish males got 13 http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[razkal]

You were right Solomon. Some females get 15/14 end at AF job level 15. My TP stats were way wrong on my previous post so disregard it completely. These are from the jap psu wiki Pillan gave us.

Acrotecher Lvl 110/ Job Lvl 15


Human F Newman M/F Beast M
HP 2325 2143 2071 2643
ATP 888 807 769 1038
ATA 548 585 564 459
TP 1579 1662 1704 1101
DFP 215 182 190 205
EVP 836 827 858 704
MST 474 661 714 302
STA 12 10 12 10

Acrofighter Lvl 110/ job Lvl 15

Human Newman Beast
M F M F M F
HP 2773 2685 2476 2393 3053 2970
ATP 1174 1122 1021 972 1313 1264
ATA 532 511 546 526 428 408
TP 1603 1659 1747 1790 1157 1270
DFP 283 294 249 259 280 292
EVP 876 912 902 936 768 801
MST 250 274 382 413 174 182
STA 12 15 12 14 12 14


Darn, it's so hard to try and align stuff here. It's the best I could do.

[Pillan]

On 2007-10-25 12:07, razkal wrote:
I agree with you Pillan, but I would definitely not pick a cast for the role. All other 3 would work just fine in my eyes.


I’d say Cast is on par with Newman for a couple apparently not so obvious reasons:

First, AF has high HP and DFP, which are often overlooked because the EVP mod is 70% higher. However, if everyone took the time to analyze how EVP works on classes that have high stats in all three (like say, WT), you’d realize the only race that occasionally has any advantage in the number of hits taken before dying is Beast because their HP is outside of the normal defensive stat ratio. Human might be as well off as Beast due to the bonus though. Second you have to remember that the 730 TP advantage Newman has over Cast is offset by a weapon with an average firing rate of 1 shot per second. Taking into account that the average skill has around a 200% modifier, hits twice per second, and hits 2 targets, the 196 ATP difference becomes 1568 ATP and then that goes straight into a 1.5x critical of Just Attack, giving them a 324 damage/second advantage over Newman, ignoring the probably incalculable marginal accuracy difference. So, yeah, human and Beast have a clear advantage at the class, but I can easily argue Cast is no worse off than Newman, if not better.

Then AT has already been confirmed to get a higher output Just Attacking than using attack techs even as Newman, so the more ATP you have the better. That and of the techs it excels in, only Resta and Giresta require TP at all. It has a level 20 skill cap paired with a 150% ATA mod, so the accuracy differences are no longer negligible as they were in the AF case (i.e., 20 skills have around the same ATA mods as bullets). Defense wise, it’s more polarized toward Newman, like fT, but the magnitude of the polarization looks too small for it to be a clear Newman EVP > Cast HP + DFP, though Newman HP + MST > Cast HP + MST is obviously true. So I’d say it gives human a clear lead and the other three trade off damage for ability to use Resta more effectively and spam techs on the 2 single target melee resistant enemies in the game that can't be killed faster with Megid.

Anyway, that’s my long way of saying don’t rule Casts out unless you have a good idea of what the numbers actually mean.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-10-25 15:30 ]</font>

[MrNomad]

Ya, besides humans are a boring race! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Kalvin01]

How insightful, numbers and logics alike. It's nice to know that humans will actually get an upperhand at something even though I never really had much regard for statistics in the first place. In my opinion, as long as you have fun and enjoy your class whatever your race may be, you're more than fine in the game. Games were made for that purpose anyway. You certainly don't want to spoil it by making it into a job. >_>

Well anyway - woot for humans! BTW, I keep hearing that crea weapons are a lot more valuable in AoI. Wouldn't having such weapons make melee-ing that much more effective for both humans and newmans?

[razkal]

Pillan I completely understand your view and I appreciate your break down, but my question still remains. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

You and I are just swapping 3rd and 4th place with newman/cast.

It is obvious that cast will be good in the melee/ranger area and of course they can take a hit (not so much on the technic side.) My original question is how effective will cast really be as acros seeing as they have the lowest TP. To me Shadoogs and Madoogs are a necessary item on every acros palette, so I would like to know how effective casts are at using them.

I guess I won't find out til the expansion. That being said I do have 4 female chars ( one of each race) so I'll be able to make the most out of these classes anyway. Any one else excited about the expansion announcement? Less than 25 days til my real life disappears!!!!!

[Pillan]

On 2007-10-26 06:42, razkal wrote:
It is obvious that cast will be good in the melee/ranger area and of course they can take a hit (not so much on the technic side.) My original question is how effective will cast really be as acros seeing as they have the lowest TP. To me Shadoogs and Madoogs are a necessary item on every acros palette, so I would like to know how effective casts are at using them.


The answer is actually right in front of you. Cast AF has 730 TP less than Newman AF, so the Shadoog will be doing 146-219 damage per bullet less as a Cast, depending on the element. They make up for it by doing 470-705 damage/second more with their melee weapons, depending on element. Actually, if the Acro-classes do get a 10% speed bonus to skills, then Cast AF damage from a Shadoog + melee weapon will exactly equal human AF damage of the same gender (obviously, human male > Cast female). And, of course, this depends completely on the user relying on Shadoogs. If you’re not equipping one, it breaks back down into the normal Beast > Cast > human > Newman deviation, though human is extremely close to Cast in this case.

As far as Madoogs, well, there’s a 703 TP difference between Cast and Newman. This difference doesn’t come up at all if you’re using a support tech on the Madoog, such as a buff or debuff. I’ll estimate the average tech as 150% TP that hits 3 targets every 1.5 seconds, so the Cast is losing around 422-607 damage/second, depending on element. And, of course, you can always make that damage up by just meleeing. (Obviously, a Cast can’t keep up with a human meleeing and using a Shadoog in this case.) So this one really depends purely on what you’re doing with the weapons.

Anyway, I really want to say that there is no clear best or clear worst just because these are the only 2 classes that use all the character stats in almost equal proportions and then human gets a ridiculous bonus so that they’re a bit above or on-par with everyone else.


On 2007-10-26 06:42, razkal wrote:
Any one else excited about the expansion announcement? Less than 25 days til my real life disappears!!!!!


You mean the 1up cup didn’t already kill that? But, yeah, I’m pretty sure everyone is.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-10-26 13:15 ]</font>