The term "god"

[DurakkenX]

I've been thinking the term god is incorrectly used in the modern world...

A "god" in terms of mythology and almost every religion up until the modern day does not mean omnipotent, creator, or omniscient. There are only 2 things that stand out about every god...

#1 Has some supernatural power over nature.
#2 Part of the supreme ruling (Royalty/Nobility) class in the spiritual world.

Gods are hardly ever responsible for "creating" the world and usually there is a preceding group like in greek/roman myths there are the Titans and in many other mythologies the gods were created of the land and not creators of it. In some others there are beings that are there, but aren't called gods that create the world as well.

So given this, "God" in the modern world really isn't an accurate term for the christian god. The more accurate term is "Chaos", "nothingness", or even a "Titan". And likewise Satan/Lucifer and the other ruling angels are more accurately described as gods.

[AlexCraig]

Well, it also depends on the religion or belief. I know this is going very far out on a limb here, but in The Legend of Zelda it was the goddesses (gods in ALTTP) who created the world. Granted, that is a video game, but still *shruggs*

[DurakkenX]

#1. that's in modern times.
#2. they didn't create the world the altered it.

[AlexCraig]

A Link To The Past Instruction Manual Page 3:
The God of Power dyed the mountains red with fire and created land. The God of Wisdom created science and wizardry and brought order to nature. And the God of Courage, through justice and vigor, created life - the animals that crawl on the land and the birds that soar in the sky.
Sounds like creating the world to me.

As for modern times, who gives. Creation is creation, and the creators are the creators. Like I said, it all depends on the religion or belief.

[DurakkenX]

it matters that it's modern because the term has taken on the attributes of a creator rather than what it originally meant. Terms used in modern times to explain something would be different than they would be previously. For example I wouldn't call Uranus a god, but most would because there are only 2 levels of hierarchy in most peoples' view "god" and "spirit" just about everything is just lumped in those categories so in most situations in modern times a spiritual being that is of some nobility will be called a god.

[ABDUR101]

You can't even begin to touch on this subject because it changes so drastically based on religion/beleif/context.

You're using a very broad stroke to try and make your point, when there's far too many points to be made and evaluated. You're basically using a big enough brush so you don't have to make much of an arguement on your part.

[DurakkenX]

point out a religion outside of judeo christian where an equivilant term is used for creator or for god that include "omnicient" "omnipresent" and "creator"

None that I know and I know a lot. As far as I know "god" isn't even used in the original text either, but rather "Yahweh" which means I am what I am.

[AlexCraig]

Well that sure is a pious view. You couldn't possibly know EVERY single religion in the world. There are too many.

[FOAtHeart]

Does this even matter?

[omegapirate2k]

Did you guys know that God is Dog backwards?

Something to think about, right there.

[Sgt_Shligger]

Also, God isn't a god, he's God. That's his name (or at least what we call him.)

[ABDUR101]

On 2007-10-29 13:59, DurakkenX wrote:
point out a religion outside of judeo christian where an equivilant term is used for creator or for god that include "omnicient" "omnipresent" and "creator"

None that I know and I know a lot. As far as I know "god" isn't even used in the original text either, but rather "Yahweh" which means I am what I am.


You get a cascade effect, because you have religious doctrines and teachings that state clear back to Adam that there was only one God, and that there have been Prophets and Messengers to give the message, but most of their messages were altered to suit the people at the time.

Again, you cannot make such a claim, because I doubt you have anywhere near as much religious studies as I have, I don't think you even comprehend how vast and infinite world religions are.

You claiming to 'know alot' doesn't really say much.

Go study religions, cross-reference them, find connections between each one that links their beleifs together, now go do that for roughly eight years straight; then have afew universities interested in you.

Personally to me, it seems like you've come to your own conclusion but haven't spent enough time looking at specific religions(nor enough of them, seems like you merely went the way of a broad brush stroke and said came up with "here's a lot of religions that have gods and dieties of all types", and "Here's christianity that says there's only one God".

Aswell, you're not taking into account the crossing of one beleif system into another for integration purposes. (i.e. christianity taking pagan beleifs so as to make it's integration easier to new masses)

Aswell as mis-translations of texts, on purpose alterations of holy texts and teachings, etc etc.

The term "God" itself, as I said, is based on context in and of itself. You can't use a sweeping statement that "God is used incorrectly in modern day", as if there is a pure definition of what a "God" even is.

I don't think you've put much thought into it at all actually. Again, you need to bring out something much finer to create your arguement with than the mop you used in your opening post. Not to mention that most people would dedicate as much time to prove their original idea wrong and offer counter-points to their own arguement, as opposed to merely stating "I'm right, prove me wrong!"

[DurakkenX]

That being said I've yet to see any argument against why what i'm saying is wrong.

God when speaking of Japanese mythology/religion is speaking more on what we would call nature spirits
God when talking in the sense of Egyptian, Greek, Roman, and a number of other religions is wrong as it only indicates as a supernatural being of some apparent nobility.

As I said in every religion and mythology I know of and have read up on "God" as term to call the perfect, creator god of Judeo-christian beliefs is not an accurate term.

Arguing "that's a broad comment" or "you prolly haven't done a lot of research" is not a counter argument. So, as I said give a counter argument if your gonna dismiss it. Now since you claim to have studied a lot Abdur Coming up with a counter argument should be easy, but you haven't so since your so knowledgable perhaps there is none meaning I'm right, or you jsut aren't as knowing as you say.

[Sgt_Shligger]

On 2007-10-29 15:18, DurakkenX wrote:
That being said I've yet to see any argument against why what i'm saying is wrong.

God when speaking of Japanese mythology/religion is speaking more on what we would call nature spirits
God when talking in the sense of Egyptian, Greek, Roman, and a number of other religions is wrong as it only indicates as a supernatural being of some apparent nobility.

As I said in every religion and mythology I know of and have read up on "God" as term to call the perfect, creator god of Judeo-christian beliefs is not an accurate term.

Arguing "that's a broad comment" or "you prolly haven't done a lot of research" is not a counter argument. So, as I said give a counter argument if your gonna dismiss it. Now since you claim to have studied a lot Abdur Coming up with a counter argument should be easy, but you haven't so since your so knowledgable perhaps there is none meaning I'm right, or you jsut aren't as knowing as you say.

[ABDUR101]

Go read my posts again, I already made a counter-arguement to you in general. You're asking for something that for all intents and purposes has already been there since Adam, merely because there's no recorded history that dates back to Adam doesn't mean it wasn't there at some point.

You're merely using judeo-christian as a focal point, when infact there has been a procession of religions that have followed the same beleifs dated since Adam. Christianity, Judaism, Islam, these are of the same lineage based on beleifs.(Insert point I was making of cross-referencing religions and their text to show interconnectivity and cascade).

There have even been Pharoahs who spoke of monotheism as a beleif as opposed to the standard Gods and Goddess usually attributed to the region.

Aswell, you're trying to discuss a topic such as this on a video game forum who's members are usually in their teens? Do you not find the humor in that aswell? Are you attempting to appear smarter than the average bear here or what? Go to a religious forum and start a discussion on this subject matter, where people of far greater knowledge will point out quite quickly the same thing I did. You're using broad strokes to make a sweeping statement, when all you have to do is use abit of speculation and think abit further than what wikipedia tells you, and you'll be able to deduce that it is by no means an extreme postulation that there have been countless religions over the course of human history that have held monotheistic beleifs. Whether they are accounted for or not doesn't much matter.

The last 2,000 years of human existance have been a blink in our overall timescale, and written history only goes so far back. Welcome to reality, check your luggage before stepping off.

[Dragwind]

Yeah...I can't argue with that Abdur. The subject is far too broad and these stupid small detail varies from reigon to reigon, religon to religon. I wouldn't lose sleep about it, its not the only thing masses of people mix up anyhow.

[mizukage]

I didn't bother reading the 2 huge pages of mythology, but I prefer the term "deity" rather than God. More over, there are tons of deities, yet God only refers to one entity in the Holy Bible.

Edited: By the way, I am not Christian.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mizukage on 2007-10-29 16:28 ]</font>

[EphekZ]

On 2007-10-29 14:53, Sgt_Shligger wrote:
Also, God isn't a god, he's God. That's his name (or at least what we call him.)



This pretty much the only needed counter-claim to Durraken's.

If his name was wajajajajaja, People of christian/jewish/islam faith would still follow wajajajajajaja.

[Sgt_Shligger]

On 2007-10-29 16:26, EphekZ wrote:

On 2007-10-29 14:53, Sgt_Shligger wrote:
Also, God isn't a god, he's God. That's his name (or at least what we call him.)



This pretty much the only needed counter-claim to Durraken's.

If his name was wajajajajaja, People of christian/jewish/islam faith would still follow wajajajajajaja.



Thank you very much. The Bible never describes God as a god. He is what he is.

[Sord]

Vocabularly changes from region to region and culture to culture, as well as the itme period. The term "God" is no exception. It can mean one thing to one person and something completely difrent to someone else. A good RL example that's happened, a foreign student (austrailian I think, been a long time) asked the teacher for a "rubber." Our teacher freaked and thought the kid meant a condom, but he was just asking for an eraser.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sord on 2007-10-29 18:00 ]</font>

[Shadowpawn]

On 2007-10-29 12:42, DurakkenX wrote:
. And likewise Satan/Lucifer....



Satan and Lucifer are not the same, despite what most people think. That was a mistranslation, Lucifer means "morning star" and does not refer to the deity known as Satan.

[Split]

On 2007-10-29 14:16, KodiaX987 wrote:

On 2007-10-29 13:40, ABDUR101 wrote:
You can't even begin to touch on this subject because it changes so drastically based on religion/beleif/context.

You're using a very broad stroke to try and make your point, when there's far too many points to be made and evaluated. You're basically using a big enough brush so you don't have to make much of an arguement on your part.



Thread over. Somebody lock this.

yeah true, but if you want my two cents, in the future everyone will be atheists and instead of saying oh my god or god damnit or my god, the word "god" will just be replaced with science

[DizzyDi]

I may be wrong but Lucifer is Satan's name as Satan simply means adversary.

[Shadowpawn]

On 2007-10-29 19:07, DizzyDi wrote:
I may be wrong but Lucifer is Satan's name as Satan simply means adversary.



That's what must people think. I'm not saying it's definite but some scholar believe the translation of Lucifer was misapplied to Satan. It's true that Satan was one of the archangels in heaven and the same may be said for Lucifer but the Bible never directly states the two are the same(save for the King James version, which is the cause for people calling Satan Lucifer.) These same people believe the closest thing to a name Satan is Baal.

Like I said, it's not definite and open to interpretation.

[Shadowpawn]

On 2007-10-29 19:06, Split wrote:

On 2007-10-29 14:16, KodiaX987 wrote:

On 2007-10-29 13:40, ABDUR101 wrote:
You can't even begin to touch on this subject because it changes so drastically based on religion/beleif/context.

You're using a very broad stroke to try and make your point, when there's far too many points to be made and evaluated. You're basically using a big enough brush so you don't have to make much of an arguement on your part.



Thread over. Somebody lock this.

yeah true, but if you want my two cents, in the future everyone will be atheists and instead of saying oh my god or god damnit or my god, the word "god" will just be replaced with science



I hope not, I wouldn't want a world full of atheists.

[mizukage]

On 2007-10-29 19:06, Split wrote:
yeah true, but if you want my two cents, in the future everyone will be atheists and instead of saying oh my god or god damnit or my god, the word "god" "God" will just be replaced with science



I don't think you want to be an atheist, because there are other meanings to being an atheist... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_cool.gif

The fact about science is that the term "God" is connected to science.

[EphekZ]

On 2007-10-29 19:06, Split wrote:

On 2007-10-29 14:16, KodiaX987 wrote:

On 2007-10-29 13:40, ABDUR101 wrote:
You can't even begin to touch on this subject because it changes so drastically based on religion/beleif/context.

You're using a very broad stroke to try and make your point, when there's far too many points to be made and evaluated. You're basically using a big enough brush so you don't have to make much of an arguement on your part.



Thread over. Somebody lock this.

yeah true, but if you want my two cents, in the future everyone will be atheists and instead of saying oh my god or god damnit or my god, the word "god" will just be replaced with science



No it won't. Keep in mind, I'm not religious, or atheist really, but me and a somewhat friend of mine(who is religious) had a discussion like this a while back. He said take a look at the modern people, when people see something remarkable or of the sort, the first thing they say is "oh my G-d". I simply replied, "unfortunately, you can't apply that today since the phrase "Oh my G-d" itself has become a product of modern pop culture. my point, people will continue to say this because they don't say it referring to their god, they say it referring to..other people, if you will.

[Eihwaz]

If there is a God, I'm sure he frowns upon pseudo-intellectuals that post on video game message boards. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[EphekZ]

On 2007-10-29 21:27, Eihwaz wrote:
If there is a God, I'm sure he frowns upon pseudo-intellectuals that post on video game message boards. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif



http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[mizukage]

On 2007-10-29 21:27, Eihwaz wrote:
If there is a God, I'm sure he frowns upon pseudo-intellectuals that post on video game message boards. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif



http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif Damn right!!!

[TetsuyaHikari]

Hmmm..well, as far as I'm concerned, there's not really an absolute to this type of discussion. There are so many different religions that transfer the term "God" into a different meaning.

Christianity..even that religion itself has altered so many words and translations over thousands of years that there's nothing SOLID that we can follow in text these days.

I can't prove or disprove that this "God" exists, however..I can live my life based on my own beliefs. I'm a bit of a pragmatist in these types of situations. I've talked with TONS of people who said this "God" was the creator of everything before us and he controls everything that happens, but..I didn't see this take place, neither did they.

I believe more in defining things through logic and science instead of saying, "Oh, this happened because God wanted it to", and be satisfied with just that. Many many years ago, people used to think that lightning came down from the sky because a guy with a big beard was sitting on a cloud, throwing down bolts (i.e. Zeus).

Years later, we was able to explain with science which they didn't have at the time..why the lightning was coming down. People tend to use a "God" as a means of explaining the unknown. It's the best way some people know how to cope with something and it irritates me that they can just accept it as that and move on.

I don't have anything against people who believe in their "God" or whatever, but...when people start saying "This was done by God" and "That was done by God", saying every little (good) thing was done by "him"..it gets irritating after a while.

A MAJORITY of the time, you'll only hear people say, "Thank God" or something good about him when something good happens. If something bad happens, MOST of the time, they won't blame this, "God" of theirs because he's perfect and never makes any sort of mistakes.

You're going down the highway and a drunk driver slams into the driver's side of your vehicle going at 110 MPH, crushing you instantly without a chance of survival.

I have a few words to ask you before you die.

"Where's your God now?"

Sometimes people put their beliefs in the wrong things at the wrong times. God is like the Santa Claus for adults. People think if they act all "nice" and whatnot, they will be rewarded, because this "God" of theirs is watching over EVERYONE, so if you get in a car accident..don't worry!

If you believe in God, you'll stay alive!

I'm not going for insults here, but..some people need to wake up and smell the coffee. Some things just aren't as easy as we try to make them out to be.

Anyway, I apologize if I offended anyone with my post. I guess I stretched my right to express my opinion a little http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Eihwaz]

The lack of intelligence in this thread is of Biblical proportions.

I'm not a religious person, but I'm not nearly arrogant enough to say "There is no God!" I mean, I just love people who preach from in front of their cozy little computer desk, vomiting forth whatever uninformed blurb that comes to their mind, creating thought-free discussions that devolve into little more than smug one-upping.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Eihwaz on 2007-10-30 00:30 ]</font>

[Sekani]

On 2007-10-30 00:16, Eihwaz wrote:
The lack of intelligence in this thread is of Biblical proportions.

I'm not a religious person, but I'm not nearly arrogant enough to say "There is no God!" I mean, I just love people who preach from in front of their cozy little computer desk, vomiting forth whatever uninformed blurb that comes to their mind, creating thought-free discussions that devolve into little more than smug one-upping.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Eihwaz on 2007-10-30 00:30 ]</font>

You just won this thread twice. Impressive.

Personally I despise religious propaganda, whether it be Christian, atheist, or "other" in nature. It's the ultimate sign of ignorance under the facade of the ultimate truth.

As to the original topic... what's your point?

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

On 2007-10-29 15:18, DurakkenX wrote: meaning I'm right, or you jsut aren't as knowing as you say.


We're not going to do these again. Flamebaiting BS topics. Your thinly veiled intention of being right and not even accepting responses with that non-applicable mindset in tow isn't good manners. You've been disciplined for behavior and you're back to it.

This is an open enough debate and won't end well. Someone always wants to "be right" and not share/learn from other responses/takes/opinions, doubly so in the context of geeky internet word offs when you found too much time on your hands.

Philosophy classes, go check them out. God being proven to exist isn't anything new to the world or what he is or what entails his creating power. These theories and written works by philosophers throughout the years are openly debated today, sure. Not on the prime real estate of video game hobby forums. This again. Isn't where you should go to discuss things well enough. but your intention is clear again with the attention getting "I'm right, you're wrong." First day of the class, professor straight up says, "nobody likes the know it alls." They're really the ones that don't know jack.

If I was not yet already learning about these things as most probably wouldn't here, I'm certainly not going to go learn it on the internet from the game forum guru that can't accept responses of any kind.

Plenty has been said here, going to lock this up to avoid further inevitable conflict.