Good Fortetecher?

[Rashiid]

inb4'ACROTECHER HAS LVL 40 GO ASK THEM TO HEAL!'ppl

[creativehope]

After reading forum after forum of being a fortetecher I have started to take my Teching abilities into question and right now I am riddled with doubt. SO I decided to ask the pso-world community "what does it take to be a good fortetecher?" I know a that quite a few things make a decent fortetecher but what makes a good one. After a while of thinking this is what I ha compiled as a to do list "in order of priority" that should be done by a techer before, in, and after combat
Techer check list
Before combat
1)Buff
2)Giresta

During combat
1)Buff (all in need)
2)Debuff
3)Heal all injured beyond 50%
4)Revererser all s.effects
5)Heal all that have been reversered
6)Giresta the incapacitated
7)Heal those revived
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_cool.gifrebuff those who need it
9)S.effect all enemies in range
10)Nuke

After combat
1)Heal
2)Buff

and that just about the gist of what I know. While I would like to do all these things I simply cant due to technic reasons like my giresta isnt fully lvled and my debuffs arent lvled at all so there goes that and I do miss buffing opportunities during combat. I am not sure about my other shortcomings. So my questions are.......

1) what are my number 1 requirements as a techer
2) Are debuffs a money maker or breaker
3) Not that I take shortcuts but are there some things that I can go without s of now.

I guess those are my biggest concerns. any decent input on this topic will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you

[creativehope]

lol well acrotecher isnt here now. besides just because acrotechers support is better doesnt mean that I cant do it too

[CelestialBlade]

I've found that my fT's role greatly depends on what kind of party I'm with.

If you're the only fT, you get to be busy. In my opinion, priority should be keeping everyone alive and buffed, then resort to nuking and/or debuffing. In a good party you'll be nuking 90% of the time anyway.

If there's multiple fTs in the party, perhaps you could work out splitting the duties. One person plays a supportive role in buffing/debuffing, the other lets loose with the nukes, but both of you cover healing/reviving.

That's just my opinion though, the most important thing is that you're having fun.

[creativehope]

Well I do have fun, I just dont want to be a liability to the party. I have been on this game for a long time, about 3 days after it came out actually, but I have a lot of fun with my friends but just for the sake of being a good attribute to the party. thats all. besides I plan to make a more friends and also meet a specific someone although I am not sure he's been on lately and well i would like to make a good first impression

[Remedy]

You've got the measure of a good FT. Most people here don't. *shrug*

Unfortunately, in AotI, that list will apply to ATs and FTs will become dumbed-down nuking idiots. =/

[CelestialBlade]

On 2007-10-30 09:34, creativehope wrote:
Well I do have fun, I just dont want to be a liability to the party. I have been on this game for a long time, about 3 days after it came out actually, but I have a lot of fun with my friends but just for the sake of being a good attribute to the party. thats all. besides I plan to make a more friends and also meet a specific someone although I am not sure he's been on lately and well i would like to make a good first impression

Keep everyone healed, try and buff people when their buffs run out as opposed to only at the beginning and end of missions, debuff on dangerous enemies (not on every single thing), and you're going to make a lot of friends.

[BlackHat]

Tech Slot 1: Diga/Foie/Barta/
Tech slot 2: any Gi-tech
Tech slot 3: reverser/ra-tech
Tech slot 4: Resta

Rod setup I usually use. Works rather well for keeping people alive and attacking.

[creativehope]

well my rod setups are okay. So far I just have every rod set as a pure element. krud I forgot to mention that my zonde techs are also low, the highest (razonde) being 24 but that the only one above lvl 21 and I also got rid of a debuff, cant remember which one. it sucks only having 36 skill slots

[Remedy]

On 2007-10-30 09:49, creativehope wrote:
well my rod setups are okay. So far I just have every rod set as a pure element.You're doing it wrong, then, little one. <3

[BlackHat]

Yes it does. I skipped the debuffs for my FT.

[creativehope]

On 2007-10-30 09:51, Remedy wrote:

On 2007-10-30 09:49, creativehope wrote:
well my rod setups are okay. So far I just have every rod set as a pure element.You're doing it wrong, then, little one. <3


Please explain if you would

[Kamiense]

I have a set up of two elemental rods, a buff rod, and a debuff rod. Plus a wand for Resta/Reverser. I've had no complaints about my fTing, so I don't see the reason why you can't play how you want.

Sorry, I didn't see this utter crap when I was writing.


On 2007-10-30 09:54, Remedy wrote:
Rod 1: Shifta/Deband/Zodial/Retier
Rod 2: Jellen/Zalure/Zoldeel/Giresta
Rod 3: <attack tech>/Resta/<attack tech>/Reverser
Rod 4: <attack tech>/Resta/<attack tech>/Reverser
Rod 5: <attack tech>/Resta/<attack tech>/Reverser
Rod 6: <attack tech>/Resta/<attack tech>/Reverser

Like that. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



Who the fuck would have 6 rods? Plus 12% elemental DOES help.

Oh, hi S rank Bow and Cards, oh, you're good at killing Onma and you can cuase status effects?

A force that only uses techs is COMPLETELY USELESS. We have other weapons for a reason. Stop acting like techs are all we have.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kamiense on 2007-10-30 09:59 ]</font>

[amtalx]

Heal/Buff/Debuff and throw in some meteorites and fireballs in between. 'nuff said. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Remedy]

Rod 1: Shifta/Deband/Zodial/Retier
Rod 2: Jellen/Zalure/Zoldeel/Giresta
Rod 3: <attack tech>/Resta/<attack tech>/Reverser
Rod 4: <attack tech>/Resta/<attack tech>/Reverser
Rod 5: <attack tech>/Resta/<attack tech>/Reverser
Rod 6: <attack tech>/Resta/<attack tech>/Reverser

Like that. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[creativehope]

oops maybe I should have said also that my buffs are all on one rod, so are my debuffs and my healing techs are also one rod for incresed health but if this is a bad setup then I will try some of the above suggestions

[Remedy]

You should never be more than a switch of a side of your rod away from Resta, my dear. :3

[BlackHat]

On 2007-10-30 09:54, Remedy wrote:
Rod 1: Shifta/Deband/Zodial/Retier
Rod 2: Jellen/Zalure/Zoldeel/Giresta
Rod 3: <attack tech>/Resta/<attack tech>/Reverser
Rod 4: <attack tech>/Resta/<attack tech>/Reverser
Rod 5: <attack tech>/Resta/<attack tech>/Reverser
Rod 6: <attack tech>/Resta/<attack tech>/Reverser

Like that. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



Slot 1: Pure rod
Slot 2: Rod <attack tech>/Resta/<attack tech>/Reverser
Slot 3: Pure rod
Slot 4: Buff Rod
Slot 5: Wand Diga/Foi/barta etc and Resta
Slot 6: Bow

Thats the setup I use for my FT.

Bow for range, Wand for that little bit of extra speed.

[Remedy]

On 2007-10-30 09:54, Kamiense wrote:
Who the fuck would have 6 rods? Plus 12% elemental DOES help.

Oh, hi S rank Bow and Cards, oh, you're good at killing Onma and you can cuase status effects?What, you mean the Hanmateric, Mira-kikami, and Magical Wand in my inventory that I slot into my palette WHEN IT'S NECESSARY?

I wasn't aware that you weren't allowed to carry extra weapons depending on your situation. My god!

Edit: And 12% elemental only helps when you're facing scores of enemies of the element it opposes. In a mixed mission, very much like the one we have now in the Club, elemental weapons are a joke. Plus, I usually use spells for utility that don't match the element I'm facing (Gizonde on hordes of Ageeta to shock them, for example), meaning that elements are useless to me. durrrrr

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Remedy on 2007-10-30 10:06 ]</font>

[Kamiense]

On 2007-10-30 10:04, Remedy wrote:

On 2007-10-30 09:54, Kamiense wrote:
Who the fuck would have 6 rods? Plus 12% elemental DOES help.

Oh, hi S rank Bow and Cards, oh, you're good at killing Onma and you can cuase status effects?What, you mean the Hanmateric, Mira-kikami, and Magical Wand in my inventory that I slot into my palette WHEN IT'S NECESSARY?

I wasn't aware that you weren't allowed to carry extra weapons depending on your situation. My god!



Then why not when trying to explain to someone what a good fortetecher is, don't mention only rods! It's simple logic if you think about it. Plus, if a course is full of tech resistant things are in the course, wouldn't you try and help people by saying there are options?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kamiense on 2007-10-30 10:07 ]</font>

[creativehope]

I see
So It wouldnt do me any good to have 1 healing rod 2 healing wands a buff rod, debuff rod and one attack rod for a given situation. and I also switch off between rods and bows of the same elemnt, minus an electricity bow

and this whole time I thought I had a good setup too, I learnred something new today

[Remedy]

On 2007-10-30 10:07, Kamiense wrote:
Then why not when trying to explain to someone what a good fortetecher is, don't mention only rods! It's simple logic if you think about it. Plus, if a course is full of tech resistant things are in the course, wouldn't you try and help people by saying there are options?She wanted opinions for her main palette. I gave her my main palette. If you want my FULL carrying of equipment:

Granarodoc +5 (all four buffs)
Granarodoc +5 (all three debuffs and Giresta)
Halarod (Damubarta/Resta/Giresta/Reverser)
Halarod (Gizonde/Resta/Nosuzonde/Reverser)
Halarod (Megiverse/Resta/Gifoie/Reverser)
Halarod (Gidiga/Resta/Diga/Reverser)
Hanmateric +3 (Varies)
Mira-kikami (Ice Card)
Magical Wand (Foie/Resta)

There, better?

Edit: The course is full of TECH-resistant mobs. Not STATUS-resistant mobs. Gi- techs do that quite handily at 21+, and debuffs stick regardless. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Remedy on 2007-10-30 10:12 ]</font>

[Kamiense]

On 2007-10-30 10:07, creativehope wrote:
I see
So It wouldnt do me any good to have 1 healing rod 2 healing wands a buff rod, debuff rod and one attack rod for a given situation. and I also switch off between rods and bows of the same elemnt, minus an electricity bow

and this whole time I thought I had a good setup too, I learnred something new today



Hey, if you think you had a good setup and it worked, go for it! This game should be about fun and stress relieving anyway, not about who's the most efficient out there. If people have partied with you and no one's complained, keep it. You could try to improve it, but don't go with what people say here as law. I know you weren't but that goes for anyone reading this message.

[panzer_unit]

if your rods are all identical models, can't you switch immediately? I remember that being true for wands... I had mine set up on pure elements and don't remember any lag getting to resta.

Personally, I prefer a techer who's quick on the debuffs... at very least the yellow one (then red, then blue, in order of importance to me) I can heal myself no problem though saving money is nice, but debuffs are a different story. I've got to waste a full palette slot and switch on and off of a different weapon class to do mine, and it's only SE2 at best.

[Xaeris]

There's nothing wrong with your setup, especially if you're become accustomed to switching to your Resta slot in a flash. The main benefit of placing Resta/Reverser on every wand/rod is saving time on the switch. If you don't forsee anyone dying in the time it takes you to perform the swap, then a pure setup is ideal, assuming you're attacking with opposite elements (e.g, no point to a pure ice rod in Hive).

As a wartecher, I don't get a choice about slot changing; if I'm using a melee weapon and want to heal, I have to switch, no compromises. I've never had anyone die in the time it took me to change slots. Now, in the time it took Resta to load on a bad day is a different story, but if you're on the PC, that shouldn't be an issue.

[Remedy]

I'm on PC and I still even have hiccups when it comes to weapon switching - primarily against bosses. It's not a matter of my PC being bad, either. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Many times I've tried to switch to my buff rod to rebuff someone that died and it takes a second to load up the buff spells.

[Jarek]

On 2007-10-30 10:13, panzer_unit wrote:
if your rods are all identical models, can't you switch immediately? I remember that being true for wands... I had mine set up on pure elements and don't remember any lag getting to resta.

Yes, that's usually the case.

If we wanna talk setups, then mine is usually:
rod-buff
wand-debuff or Bow-on bosses
rod-mixed attack techs, maybe resta
rod or card+wand-elemental
rod-resta/reverser/regrant/giresta
rod or card+wand-elemental

I've used that setup for a long time and it feels 'natural' to me..if I try to mix things up then I get all out of whack. No one's ever complained to me, although if they had I would likely just blow it off.
My main advice is don't let people scare you into thinking you are only good as support. Debuffs barely make a difference, so don't feel the need to use all 3 on every single spawn.

[Tekershee]

All I have is about 4-5 wands, for the common elements like fire/ground/light (resta etc)

Then switch between those.

This may also seem lazy but all I do is buff, heal and throw random flashy spells about o.o

No-one really dies, everyones got Hp, everyones got buffs, it all seems to work fine :/

[creativehope]

okay well so far it seems that all i need is buffs, debuffs and resta to start with and t ensure that the party stays alive. easy enough almost. I also thought that the 12% increase in techs would help with the support damage a little bit because the fortefighters and fighgunners need all the frontline help they can get or so I would like to think

[Remedy]

On 2007-10-30 10:29, Tekershee wrote:
This may also seem lazy but all I do is buff, heal and throw random flashy spells about o.oAdd on debuffing and that's all I did for about 30 levels in PSO:BB since I was so bitter with Foneys being so useless. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Broodstar1337]

My palette is as follows

3 Attack/Debuff Rods (Currently switching between Fire, Ice, Lightning, and Ground 12%-ers depending on the mission)
Wand/Madoog Combo for Buffs
Wand/Madoog Combo for Heals (Currently both equipped with Resta and Reverser. Wand will probably switch to light-based attack once I get Regrants.)
Ice Bow

[Reipard]

Debuffing is a worthy way to play. You can't exactly have time to tag for exp (nor will they give you time to) by playing the way everyone wants you to play (IE- focusing only on healing and not nuking) http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Reipard on 2007-10-30 10:58 ]</font>

[Zorak000]

my setup:

slot 1: primary element attack rod(dominate element of the run)
slot 2: secondary element wand + card
slot 3: debuff + resta rod OR tertiary element rod (depends on my mood/run)
slot 4: healing rod
slot 5: buff rod
slot 6: bow

in case of HIVE:

slot 1: regrant/resta/reverser/giresta
slot 2: diga?/foie? + light cards?
slot 3: debuffs
slot 4: buffs
slot 5: light bow
slot 6: ???

[Guildenstern]

Umm, mine is set up like this:
Fan + Cometarac with Resta/Reverser
Fan + Cometarac with Zalure and Zoldeel
Howrod with Foie/Rafoie/Gifoie/Damfoie
Halarod with Barta/Rabarta/Gibarta/Dambarta
Howrod with Diga/Radiga/Gidiga/Nosdiga
Granarodoc with Shifta/Retier/Deband/Zodial
And then I carry around with me some Magical Wands with Megiverse/Ramegid, Razonde/Gizonde-- situational spells I swap into my palatte when I need them.

I don't find it necessary to gimp the elemental percentages on my rods with Resta as I never have problems switching to my Resta wand when I need it. Also the people I play with are very good and don't need my constant attention. I've put Resta on my nuking rods only for 1Up Cup-- because I am lazy. I probably won't ever do that again. XD

So it really all depends on your playstyle if you have Resta equipped on all your rods or not. Just do whatever makes you feel more comfortable. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Fresh]

Im a techer and every party im in has never complained about my techer skills all my attacks are level 21+ alot are at 30 right along with all my buffs and heal spells. For the most part I heal then buff whoever isn't buffed and thats it then i start attacking like everyone else... throw a couple heals when people are getting damaged. For the most part i don't debuff if your strong enough the monsters will die b4 you can debuff them anyways.... so thats about it not hard to be a techer you just need to pay attention to hurt players and who is/isn't buffed

I keep scapes, photon charges, trimates, sol's, and cosmo charges.... these are to help me and when i see someone running around like a idiot using x attack because they used all of the pp up and were too cheap to buy a few charges

My Pallet
Halarod- gi spells
howrod- base spells (diga, foie, etc)
howrod- ra spells or dam spells (depends how im feeling)
howrod- Ultimate Tech's
howrod- Buffs
ulteri- Element depents on the monsters or howrod- light spells (resta, giresta, regrant, reverser)

when i want to be cool and run around ill pull out my sacred shi-kikami's i love those thing and then my majimra with resta and whatever spell element most of the monsters in the level are.

the last slot switches depending on what runs im doing if im in the hive i have the light spells out if not the bow is out and ill pull that rod out if someone dies.... Every rod has resta on it I think that is a must because it takes to long to switch to a rod and then cast resta if someone is getting hit hard.......


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Fresh on 2007-10-30 12:08 ]</font>

[MSAksion]

A Good FT is;

-is One that the team appreciates in an unspoken thank you.
-Can Buff on the Run from spawn to spawn.
-Can REbuff the team during a fight
-Can DEBUFF when a huge squad or a difficult monster appears before anyone commences attack.
-Has a diverse array of spells to choose from any time any enemy. Not just Diga and Damubarta.
-Can hurt entire squads of monsters from a vantage point relative to the team and monsters.
-Can heal as soon as a teammate is status affected or hurt badly.
-Can Deal with any monster single handedly without being baby-sat by a hunter/ranger.
-Can supplement Ranger duties with Longbow and Card fan.
-Is not afraid to be in the middle of a squabble to launch attacks and Buff Debuffs while under attack.
-is one who thinks of others instead of their Wallets. FT is expensive in scape dolls and recharges.

[Remedy]

On 2007-10-30 11:29, MSAksion wrote:
-Can Deal with any monster single handedly without being baby-sat by a hunter/ranger.Only one I can't confidently say that doesn't apply to me, heh. I still have trouble soloing stronger mobs, but that's because my armor is woefully bad. =/

Edit: rofl. Worded that badly, lol.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Remedy on 2007-10-30 11:45 ]</font>

[RedCoKid]

On 2007-10-30 11:29, MSAksion wrote:
A Good FT is;

-is One that the team appreciates in an unspoken thank you.
Yeah, you'll know you were good when they act happy to see you the next time. This can be said of any number of things. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_innocent.gif

[Cathbar]

That's the kind of stuff that I dislike, personally.

If I'm on a mission with a party, I have as much right as the frontliners to get EXP. During a mob scurmish, I'm not going to stop the only chance I have to gain levels just to buff a group of people when they don't really need it.

This isn't to say that I don't buff or heal when it's needed (and sometimes when it isn't). I just want to use my abilities the best I can, which is NOT just to make sure the others in my group are "boo-boo" free. I like to think of myself as a distracter more then a portable medical facility, and in this way, I support my team.

My line up is:

Magicalwand: Gifoie/Gizonde
Howrod: Buff spells
Howrod: Rafoie/Rabarta/Radiga/Razonde
Halarod: Damfoie/Dambarta/Damdiga/Regrants
Magicalwand: Resta/Reverser
Majimra: Ramegid/Dammegid Ageha-kikami: ice

I also have a bow in inventory when I need to use it.

[Remedy]

On 2007-10-30 11:48, Cathbar wrote:
If I'm on a mission with a party, I have as much right as the frontliners to get EXP.Yes, you do. Debuffs tag. Did you have a point, or something?

[Tsundere]

A good techer can adapt to any situation, and not just be a nurse to the fighters and gunners. Also, attack and heal techs should go on wands. Support techs should go on rods.

[Kietrinia]

A good Fortetecher is one that everyone loves and one that manages to keep alive to continue providing support.

Here's a list of my priorities in context to the original post.

Before/Between Battle Heal team to full
(re)Buff teammates
Prep attack wand for initial strike (have a Dam-TECH or Gi-TECH ready for when the mob is nice and grouped)During Battle Heal/Giresta teammates
Rebuff teammates as needed
This also means I pounce any CAST teammate of mine who's calling their SUV. I try to get them rebuffed (starting with Shifa and Zodial to buff SUV damage) while they're calling their SUV.
Deal damage to the mobs
If I have the ability and the HP, I try to cast an AoE TECH on a mob who's about to pounce on one of my teammates who's in trouble. See if I can distract them for a lil bit to let my teammate get away.
Debuff the mobs
Be a positive personality for everyone! It's a game after all!

As far as weapons goes, here's what I keep in my palette.. Creasabra + Rayratore
Gotta crack open objects with minimal PP use, as well as when I need to knock an enemy down with Rising Strike.
Granarodoc +10
Buffing stick. Gotta have a huge PP reactor when you keep rebuffing people using level 30 buffs. ^-^;
Kikamic + Magical Wand +4 (want +10)
Heal teammates while dishing out some damage to frustrate mobs as I heal.
Howrod +10
Damage stick, try to keep it as a single element if I can. But with the Neudaiz mission, I keep both my Ice and Fire attacks linked to it so I can swap. I know I lose a lil damage, but it's cheaper than a second damage wand and lets me do elemental damage of different elements much faster.
Granarodoc +6
Debuffing stick, but it's also where I keep my Giresta (I don't debuff much, so why let a perfectly good staff go to waste?)
Kohibumiteri
Gotta have a bow for those annoying airborne enemies, as well as for when I find a good snipe spot to pick on mobs with. ^-^v

Really, it's not easy to define how to be a "good [class_name_here]" in PSU. Really, just play in a way that works to your class' strengths, but allows you and those you team with to have fun. It's a game! Never forget that! ^-^

[CyarVictor]

I hear you Cathbar. There is really no need to debuffs unless a techer needs to tag for exp. I have yet to see any diference with a debuff on a mob. Well, I should say that the only useful debuff is the attack down. The def/eva down has little impact while being a fFighter/forteGunner. Techers in our parties always buff, but we let them nuke. We do like it when they heal s.effects, but we'd much rather pop a trimate than to wait for them to come to us. A fortetecher does have every right to attack just as any other class. You may call them nuking fools, but in my opinion, they do a good deal of damage that helps make a run faster, brings down a bigger creature easier with less damage/death inflicted upon the team.

[Fresh]

On 2007-10-30 11:57, Tsundere wrote:
A good techer can adapt to any situation, and not just be a nurse to the fighters and gunners. Also, attack and heal techs should go on wands. Support techs should go on rods.



Are you a techer? have you ever been one? it doesn't matter what weapon you put heal spells on i have nothin but rods unless i want to play around with my cards. When im in a party the only thing people die from is megid unless we get split up in 2 different rooms. If your saying they should be on wand because they cast faster thats what you have me / quick or har / quick for....

[Remedy]

Not to mention the fact that I usually land Resta with my rod BEFORE people with Resta on wands because I react faster AND because they have to switch weapons; I don't, because I keep Resta on every weapon but my Buff rod.

[creativehope]

So as long as the party is happy to see me for my skills when i arrive is a token to my reliability as a techer I get that.

Also what if I get a case of the "huge mob heal me syndrome," I'm sure most techers come aross it, when you are buffing the members of the party (or any number of activities that requires your undivided attention) there is one individual that decides that its a good idea to take on the mob by himself which is a considerable distance away from the group, he gets really hurt and screams out a "HEAL ME!!" from across the area but yet instead of leaving the fray for a small moment to receive this very vital resta he's been hoping for, he instead continues to spam Pa's while taking heavy damage faster than I can get to him.
The only reason I ask this is because I have just experienced this about 2 mins ago during deadly brilliance. Of course he died and I revived him, so not uch of a harm or foul but he did put a lot of others in a really bad situation where the lvl 57 fighgnner could have died making sure that I lived long enough to cast giresta. and he proceeded to blam e me tellnig me that I was a bad techer, now while I dont believe him I do think that there was better way I could have handled it like waiting to cast my buffs or something, I was told that since he wanted to be selfish that I should have booted him, but I really dont believe in booting anyone. I've only done it once and i felt ad after doing it. So now am wondering if there was a better way to handle the situation or am I just putting too much pressure on myself as a techer?

Sorry for the rant

[Sasamichan]

On 2007-10-30 09:54, Remedy wrote:
Rod 1: Shifta/Deband/Zodial/Retier
Rod 2: Jellen/Zalure/Zoldeel/Giresta
Rod 3: <attack tech>/Resta/<attack tech>/Reverser
Rod 4: <attack tech>/Resta/<attack tech>/Reverser
Rod 5: <attack tech>/Resta/<attack tech>/Reverser
Rod 6: <attack tech>/Resta/<attack tech>/Reverser

Like that. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



That works if you are worried about them taking long to load, otherwise you are gimping yourself. Every bit helps, even if it does 20 more damage. Thats like Fighters using neutral weapons.

[Remedy]

Anyone that does that doesn't get healed, and gets scolded (gently) when (s)he dies. :3

Of course, they then get a fresh layer of buffs and a pat on the head and sent back out there to do it again, heh.

[Sasamichan]

Anyone that relies on a fT's Resta is a n00b.

[Tsundere]

On 2007-10-30 12:05, Fresh wrote:

On 2007-10-30 11:57, Tsundere wrote:
A good techer can adapt to any situation, and not just be a nurse to the fighters and gunners. Also, attack and heal techs should go on wands. Support techs should go on rods.



Are you a techer? have you ever been one? it doesn't matter what weapon you put heal spells on i have nothin but rods unless i want to play around with my cards. When im in a party the only thing people die from is megid unless we get split up in 2 different rooms. If your saying they should be on wand because they cast faster thats what you have me / quick or har / quick for....



I don't see why you are focusing on resta so much. Honestly, a techer shouldn't even have to heal. People should be smart enough to bring mates and use them when they need to. That includes the techer as well.

[JAFO22000]

A good FT doesn't need a thread asking what a good FT is.

A good FT doesn't need to reply to said thread in order to justify their worth.

A good FT doesn't use Gizonde on Ageeta...(I mean, c'mon!)

[Sasamichan]

On 2007-10-30 12:23, JAFO22000 wrote:

A good FT doesn't use Gizonde on Ageeta...(I mean, c'mon!)



Maybe when a Bot is around. (Bonus mission 1)

[Fresh]

On 2007-10-30 12:21, Tsundere wrote:

On 2007-10-30 12:05, Fresh wrote:

On 2007-10-30 11:57, Tsundere wrote:
A good techer can adapt to any situation, and not just be a nurse to the fighters and gunners. Also, attack and heal techs should go on wands. Support techs should go on rods.



Are you a techer? have you ever been one? it doesn't matter what weapon you put heal spells on i have nothin but rods unless i want to play around with my cards. When im in a party the only thing people die from is megid unless we get split up in 2 different rooms. If your saying they should be on wand because they cast faster thats what you have me / quick or har / quick for....



I don't see why you are focusing on resta so much. Honestly, a techer shouldn't even have to heal. People should be smart enough to bring mates and use them when they need to. That includes the techer as well.



im not focused on resta there are 3 other slots on a rod to attack with and if you used your head when someone gets frozen or paralized they cant do anything about being attacked or healing themselves and if you have to take time to switch through all your weapons to get to the rod or wand that has heal on it they will already be dead jarba's dambarta kills fast.

[Tsundere]

On 2007-10-30 12:26, Fresh wrote:

On 2007-10-30 12:21, Tsundere wrote:

On 2007-10-30 12:05, Fresh wrote:

On 2007-10-30 11:57, Tsundere wrote:
A good techer can adapt to any situation, and not just be a nurse to the fighters and gunners. Also, attack and heal techs should go on wands. Support techs should go on rods.



Are you a techer? have you ever been one? it doesn't matter what weapon you put heal spells on i have nothin but rods unless i want to play around with my cards. When im in a party the only thing people die from is megid unless we get split up in 2 different rooms. If your saying they should be on wand because they cast faster thats what you have me / quick or har / quick for....



I don't see why you are focusing on resta so much. Honestly, a techer shouldn't even have to heal. People should be smart enough to bring mates and use them when they need to. That includes the techer as well.



im not focused on resta there are 3 other slots on a rod to attack with and if you used your head when someone gets frozen or paralized they cant do anything about being attacked or healing themselves and if you have to take time to switch through all your weapons to get to the rod or wand that has heal on it they will already be dead jarba's dambarta kills fast.



Sol Atomizers. They aren't just for fighters and gunners, you know.

[Cathbar]

Yes, you do. Debuffs tag. Did you have a point, or something?

I don't use Debuffs (check my line up again).

My point was for all the people out there who think FTs are only exceptable on a team if they constantly heal, raise player stats, lower enemy stats, and bring others back from being KO'd.

I was responding to a post which I had ead wrong. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Remedy]

On 2007-10-30 12:23, JAFO22000 wrote:
A good FT doesn't use Gizonde on Ageeta...(I mean, c'mon!)A good FT supports her party. Shocking your enemies to prevent their attacks from interrupting her FF's PAs is support.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Inazuma]

the best way to play an FT in a party would be to help the team as much as possible. everyone can agree w/ that, i think. however, im not saying to just be a heal slave. sometimes you can help the party more by NOT using support techs.

buff techs and giresta are great, and you should try to keep em on everyone at all times. but dont use resta/reverser for every little thing.
i try to mostly use resta/reverser to save someone's life, or to save time.

someone getting poisoned very often? ignore it, its no big deal. just keep attacking.

someone stunned? reverser them to save time.

FTs who constantly heal every little bit of damage anyone takes are really slowing down the party. FT's should be mainly focused on killing monsters, only using support techs at a time when its truly more beneficial than attacking.

debuffs are great for tagging monsters for exp if you find yourself w/ a strong party in an easy mission. thats about it. if ST makes a difficult mission, the debuffs MITE actually be useful for weakening the monsters. if you dont have a problem getting exp, and you are fighting easy monsters, dont waste everyones time by using debuffs.

there are some high level FTs who equip resta/reverser to every weapon. its important that we take the time to teach them about elemental boost. it mite take a split-second more time to cast resta, but they will be doing more damage, plus have an easier time telling which wep is which in their pallete. for the times you really need a quick heal, use mates!

and not just mates, other items can be useful, even to an FT. star atoms for quickly healing someone when resta mite be too slow, or you cant afford to stop running. same thing for sol atoms, moon x. just b/c you have all these great support techs, doesnt make these items worthless to you. there have been countless times ive quickly saved ppl or myself by using items, instead of support techs. and ppl really appriciate an FT that also uses items.

to sum up everything i said for those who dont want to read it all:
FT should focus on killing monsters. support techs should be used in a situation where they are more helpful than attacking.

[Remedy]

On 2007-10-30 12:40, Cathbar wrote:
I don't use Debuffs (check my line up again).Then don't complain that support doesn't grant XP.

[majan]

the support problem with fortetechers is that if someone is frozen with 130 hp left,theyll get reverser'ed before they are healed.this scenario never fails to get someone killed.this just is a crappy habit that some people are guilty of but whatever,deaths dont count anymore so its not a huge deal.also,its rather annoying when tecchers do not buff for an unspecified reason.I play both as melee and a fortetecher so Im not sitting here on some high horse saying this.fortetechers benefit from buffs just as much as anyone else,so they sure as hell shouldnt be exempt from deserving them especially when theyre the ones that dish it out.everyones got tehir own style,but no buffing is just kinda foolish.moving on.

to me,a good techer will heal those in need,buff accordingly(remember,angry fortetechers,that buffs help you too.)and nuke away.to ask a fortetecher to cater to your every single little need i.e debuff every enemy on the screen and heal everyone thats missing even 1 hp is ridiculous.in many parties Ive taken notice of,most if not all of the mosnters are dead by the time the fortetecher is done doing the repertoire of debuffing and status effecting and all that bullshit.techers are given immensely powerful attacks for a reason.yes,techers should be support,and the ones that dont are selfish and you probably shouldnt be partying with them,unles you enjoy complaining about it.of course where some enemy mobs are ridiculously tough then yeah take the second to throw the debuff.heck,some styles of fortetecher dont nuke a whole lot and are cool with just buffing debuffing and healing,maybe using bows.that's cool,its their style.my advice is:stay away from the asshole fortetechers who are selfish and annoying,and dont criticize peoples play style if it isnt hurting yours.if a techer has you himself and everyone else buffed and healed,dont worry about a damn thing.hes playing the way he wants,and Im sure its for a reason.worry about your own style of play and not getting yourself killed while cursing out the force because you havnt had zodial for 30 seconds.

a priority list for me?
1-keep everybody healthy to the best of your ability.this means heal,but if hes on the other side of the map and you simply dont have a chance to get over there then theres nothin you can do.
2-buff......do it when you and the party both have the chance.dont run around in the midst of battle casting buffs because all you do is prolong hte process of killing the mob and leave yourself extremely vulnerable.FT is not a class that can tank damage just to dish out the buffs 30 seconds sooner.all in all,buffing helps everybody in the party.including yourself.period.
3-debuff briefly and where needed,but otherwise,nuke away.fortetechers are immensely capable DPS'ers.take advantage of this.

that's my style,but I know a lot of forces that are just as content as I am playing a totally different way.but as long as everybody is healthy and the partys chuggin along nicely,I dont see a reason to flame fortetechers at all.those that deserve the flaming are the ones that you are guilty for inviting to your party,and continuing to play with despite their shitty antics.majan's advice?watch who you party up with,and worry more about your own style of play.maybe you are doing something ass-backwards while the force forgot to zalure that last olgomon on the screen.we'd have a lot less flaming across classes and races if everybody just worried about themselves and the way they play.these flamewars dont make the game fun for anybody when everybody is second guessing what they do because theyre waiting for some asshole to comment on their style of playing.

it'sone thing if the person is just completley assinine,then say your peice and if he doesnt change it up,dont party with them.its that simple.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: majan on 2007-10-30 12:48 ]</font>

[creativehope]

On 2007-10-30 12:23, JAFO22000 wrote:
A good FT doesn't need a thread asking what a good FT is.

A good FT doesn't need to reply to said thread in order to justify their worth.

A good FT doesn't use Gizonde on Ageeta...(I mean, c'mon!)



So what you are saying is that my wanting to get other peoples opinions on what a god fortetecher is to them is the first sign of a bad one, when i had stated in the beginning that the only reason i asked this question in the first place was because there have been many forums about how terrible some techers are. So seeing as how I am a bad techer for asking this question, I am going to ask you to join me in the bad techer circle by asking you your opinion on what makes a good techer. if you can point out what makes me bad then surely you can give me pointers =)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: creativehope on 2007-10-30 12:50 ]</font>

[Cathbar]

I'm not. I'm saying I want to use my OTHER techs. And, as I said before, sorry for the misunderstanding. I really hate arguing

[Fresh]

Ok you sound like a idiot "sol atomizers aren't for fighters and gunner blah blah blah" you must have never seen level 30 resta it can heal a very long distance where a damn sol atomizer could never heal maybe you party with noobs that don't have a thing called higher percent armor.... It works...... I left my thought for whoever started this post good luck

[Fresh]

On 2007-10-30 12:48, creativehope wrote:

On 2007-10-30 12:23, JAFO22000 wrote:
A good FT doesn't need a thread asking what a good FT is.

A good FT doesn't need to reply to said thread in order to justify their worth.

A good FT doesn't use Gizonde on Ageeta...(I mean, c'mon!)



So what you are saying is that my wanting to get other peoples opinions on what a god fortetecher is to them is the first sign of a bad one, when i had stated in the beginning that the only reason i asked this question in the first place was because there have been many forums about how terrible some techers are. So seeing as how I am a bad techer for asking this question, I am going to ask you to join me in the bad techer circle by asking you your opinion on what makes a good techer. if you can point out what makes me bad then surely you can give me pointers =)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: creativehope on 2007-10-30 12:50 ]</font>


LMAO right on!!!!!

[JAFO22000]

On 2007-10-30 12:44, Remedy wrote:

On 2007-10-30 12:23, JAFO22000 wrote:
A good FT doesn't use Gizonde on Ageeta...(I mean, c'mon!)A good FT supports her party. Shocking your enemies to prevent their attacks from interrupting her FF's PAs is support.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif



Ageetas aren't hard to kill. Ageetas don't do much damage.

You wasting 2-3 Gizonde casts trying to shock a group of 5 Ageetas is time consuming and counter-productive. You could be using Gifoie and getting rid of the little pests....

Do you debuff them before you try to shock them????

[majan]

you shouldnt really bring up ageetas and olgomons because they take reduced damage from techs.the difference of using gizonde and the proper element gifoie makes much less a difference against ageetas and olgomons,especially when you are surroudned by teammates that smack them all up in a heartbeat anyway.though I agree it isnt really very efficient (though in some circumstances,some elements are better tahn the opposing one--for status effect reasons) against ageetas with other party members crankin pa's on them,it makes futile difference.

[Bloodhinge1]

i have played as all job types and being a good one of any of these all depends on your ability to read the situation that the part is in. for instance if its a nasty fight against hard hitting enemies cast resta is your best bet allowing the fighting classes to kill the enemy. however if you run into a large group of light enemies you may just want to nuke and then heal after everythings dead allowing the party to move faster. buffs are alaways a good thing but buffing mid fight costs time try to get them at funnel points such as doors and party gates. Lastly, in no way shape or form is it a techers duty to track down someone for healing if they have strayed from the group they are responsible for themselves. (your group needs you more then that 1 individual does).

[creativehope]

I really didnt want this to be a flame war, all I wanted was honest opinions and a little insight on what a good techer may be. I have my own ideas of what a good techer is and a lot of people I have met disagree so I wanted to see what the pso-w community thought seeing as how these are the only formus I trust to give an honest opinion with as little flak as possible. So for the sake of a collective thought from the community lets not start any flaming

[JAFO22000]

[b]On 2007-10-30 12:48, creativehope

So seeing as how I am a bad techer for asking this question, I am going to ask you to join me in the bad techer circle by asking you your opinion on what makes a good techer. if you can point out what makes me bad then surely you can give me pointers =)


A good techer helps their party out dependant on the situation, just like any other class. Healing and support should be your main focus, but not your ONLY focus. Nuking can be just as helpful. Let me explain using examples from the current 1up mission on Neudaiz:

-Keeping a group of Ollakas frozen and in one general area by using Dambarta is more helpful than trying to debuff all of them. Debuffing will allow your party members to do slightly more damage, but is it worth it? Ollakas tend to run around and get seperated. Keeping them in one place helps out your hunters and rangers greatly. You will also be contributing to the damage. See a group of Ollaka? Try to keep them corralled together with dambarta. If you try to debuff them, they will run hither and yon and everyone in your party will have to chase them all down.

-Using Gifoie, Damfoie or Rafoie on a group of Ageeta to help kill them faster is better than debuffing them. In a party of like leveled people, by the time you cast all three debuffs, the Ageetas will be dead anyway! They are too small to warrant debuffs. Why waste your time? Nuke and help your team get it over with!

-In rooms where there are buffed Olgohmons of fire and ice together, think to yourself "Gosh, a hunter could get in trouble if they were to get frozen, then swarmed. Plus, those buffed fire Olgohmon's foie is REALLY dangerous! Perhaps I should keep a closer eye on everyone and make sure people are healed!". Not a thought you'd have with Ageetas, for example, as they are weak and stupid and die easily, but when in a room with particularly dangerous creatures, keep an eye on everyone! Try to stay equidistant from everyone so you can get to anyone if help is needed. When you press your button to cast, you can't move your character, right? Why not glance down to the bottom left of your screen to get a status on everyone? If someone needs resta/reverser, go find them and help them out. I do this with EVERY cast on particularly harder missions or at times when there is a lot of damage/status effects happening. It's a habit for me to do so, actually. Even when using my alt FF, I find myself glancing down there. A FT should know their party the best. Even in a PuG, you will find out rather quickly which people will need the most healing, which get caught on fire the most and which can take care of themselves. It's not hard.

-Kagajabari: What to do? How about DEBUFFING! Yes, all three debuffs help against creatures with a large amount of HP (I'm also looking at you, Tengogh!). Not so good against smaller creatures, but helpful when EVERYONE is attacking the same thing. Sure, Zalure may only add 20 extra points per bullet or axe hit, but multiply that by 3 other people in your party, then by the number of hits each person will give to it and it really adds up and is worth it.

In the end, you can't really teach someone to be a good techer. Sure, I can give you hints and tips, but it's really a learning experience. I have never leveled a spell unnaturally and thusly have learned how to use each one efficiently and in the best manner I can find. There is a time and place for Ra- Techs, Gi- Techs and Dam- Techs. Position on the enemies and amount of enemies is key.

But again, Grasshopper, one cannot learn the ways of the force by simply asking "What do you do?" How do you know that other FT is good? Are you just going to take what they say at face value? For example, if someone said to you "I like using Gizonde on Ageetas!" would it make you a better FT if you started using Gizonde on Ageetas, or are you just doing what someone else suggests?

Find your own way. Do your own thing. EXPERIMENT with different techs at different times. Bottom line, if your party is happy with you then why change what you're doing??

FIN!

[creativehope]

On 2007-10-30 13:21, JAFO22000 wrote:

[b]On 2007-10-30 12:48, creativehope

So seeing as how I am a bad techer for asking this question, I am going to ask you to join me in the bad techer circle by asking you your opinion on what makes a good techer. if you can point out what makes me bad then surely you can give me pointers =)


A good techer helps their party out dependant on the situation, just like any other class. Healing and support should be your main focus, but not your ONLY focus. Nuking can be just as helpful. Let me explain using examples from the current 1up mission on Neudaiz:

-Keeping a group of Ollakas frozen and in one general area by using Dambarta is more helpful than trying to debuff all of them. Debuffing will allow your party members to do slightly more damage, but is it worth it? Ollakas tend to run around and get seperated. Keeping them in one place helps out your hunters and rangers greatly. You will also be contributing to the damage. See a group of Ollaka? Try to keep them corralled together with dambarta. If you try to debuff them, they will run hither and yon and everyone in your party will have to chase them all down.

-Using Gifoie, Damfoie or Rafoie on a group of Ageeta to help kill them faster is better than debuffing them. In a party of like leveled people, by the time you cast all three debuffs, the Ageetas will be dead anyway! They are too small to warrant debuffs. Why waste your time? Nuke and help your team get it over with!

-In rooms where there are buffed Olgohmons of fire and ice together, think to yourself "Gosh, a hunter could get in trouble if they were to get frozen, then swarmed. Plus, those buffed fire Olgohmon's foie is REALLY dangerous! Perhaps I should keep a closer eye on everyone and make sure people are healed!". Not a thought you'd have with Ageetas, for example, as they are weak and stupid and die easily, but when in a room with particularly dangerous creatures, keep an eye on everyone! Try to stay equidistant from everyone so you can get to anyone if help is needed. When you press your button to cast, you can't move your character, right? Why not glance down to the bottom left of your screen to get a status on everyone? If someone needs resta/reverser, go find them and help them out. I do this with EVERY cast on particularly harder missions or at times when there is a lot of damage/status effects happening. It's a habit for me to do so, actually. Even when using my alt FF, I find myself glancing down there. A FT should know their party the best. Even in a PuG, you will find out rather quickly which people will need the most healing, which get caught on fire the most and which can take care of themselves. It's not hard.

-Kagajabari: What to do? How about DEBUFFING! Yes, all three debuffs help against creatures with a large amount of HP (I'm also looking at you, Tengogh!). Not so good against smaller creatures, but helpful when EVERYONE is attacking the same thing. Sure, Zalure may only add 20 extra points per bullet or axe hit, but multiply that by 3 other people in your party, then by the number of hits each person will give to it and it really adds up and is worth it.

In the end, you can't really teach someone to be a good techer. Sure, I can give you hints and tips, but it's really a learning experience. I have never leveled a spell unnaturally and thusly have learned how to use each one efficiently and in the best manner I can find. There is a time and place for Ra- Techs, Gi- Techs and Dam- Techs. Position on the enemies and amount of enemies is key.

But again, Grasshopper, one cannot learn the ways of the force by simply asking "What do you do?" How do you know that other FT is good? Are you just going to take what they say at face value? For example, if someone said to you "I like using Gizonde on Ageetas!" would it make you a better FT if you started using Gizonde on Ageetas, or are you just doing what someone else suggests?

Find your own way. Do your own thing. EXPERIMENT with different techs at different times. Bottom line, if your party is happy with you then why change what you're doing??

FIN!



There, now was that so hard? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif
Thank you for the insight though it is really appreciated.
I do have my own style of play but at the same time it never hurts to get opinions from other who have the same experiences. Now while using gizonde on an ageeta isnt you style of play doesnt mean that someone else doesnt see potential, plus who said that I would just blindly do what everyone says without giving it thought, I find everyones opinions and reasons behind them interesting, and well a collective opinion covers more bases than a single unchallenged one

[Dj_SkyEpic]

Alright I'll tell you how I play and maybe you can get a few ideas from it. I'll give out some pointers at the same time.


My little guide on how to be a better ForteTecher
Pretty long so skim down to see how long it is first xD
---------------------------------------------------
Setup

Here's my weapon palette: going as ->,v, ^>,and ^v respectively.
Also notice how each link is similar to one another.
It's best to get used to your type of pattern so that when you switch on the fly, you'll be able to know which technic you are going to cast without hesitating to click.

As of my pattern:
1.it's always following the element down the list.
2.single attack "->", AoE attack "v", ranged ra attack "^>", straight-ahead attack "^v."

Support Rods:

Buff Rod:
Shifta,Deband,zodial,Retier

Debuff Rod:
Resta,Jellen, zalure, zodeel

Attack Rods:

Fire rod:
Foie,Gifoie,Rafoie, Damfoie

Ice rod:
Barta,Gibarta,Rabarta, Dambarta

Lightening rod:
Zonde,Gizonde,Razonde,Noszonde

Earth rod:
Diga, Gidiga, Radiga, Nosdiga

Dark Rod:
Megid, Megiverse, Ramegid, Nosmegid/or Damegid

Light Rod:
Resta, Regrant, Giresta, Retier
*Highlight since this is the only attack of this rod.
*All the other links are to increase the potential damage.
*Resta is right beside Regrant, so you'll be fast at healing yourself.

Wands

Heal Wand:
Resta, Reverser

Attack Wand:
This one varies depending on location and enemies, but my main are always this.
Diga, Gidiga

---------------------------------------------
Palette :
Anyways, yes. I carry all of those. I link the most powerful weapon towards the area's main enemy element weakness (aka I also carry a 9th rod (my psycho for example) to take advantage of that position.)

Here's how my palette most of the time looks like:

Buff Rod
Debuff Rod / Bow
Attack rod
Attack rod
Attack Wand
Heal Wand

----------------------------------------------
Partying priorities:



Status Effects:
The first status effect that hinders other players from attacking should be your main priority to remove . Pretty much a "stop what you're doing and help him/her."

Frozen:
Check health first before reversing. Low health = Heal first. Why? Because countless times when reversing a low hp'd player, they die by another attack. So it's best to heal first according to their health status.

Buffing:
I don't tell people to wait and get buffs. I'm more of a "keep going, why the hell are you standing there for?" kind of person.

Here's what you look for:

Timing:
Each buff is about 5 minutes long. So each 5 minutes you should begin to switch to your buff rod if you want to keep your party well supported in this area.

Death/Nano/Suv:
Go for it and give them support buffs after they've completed nano/suving/being revived. You don't want them to be the one that's holding down the party for not giving out their fullest potential.

Blocks:
If timing is not your thing, then at least buff during block periods. The beginning of blocks, middle or towards the end of each one. It all depends on the speed of the party or the will for the fT to do his/her job.

As for me, I buff at the beginning of party at most while people are fighting. I like to buff at the last set of spawns before boss portals only because I don't like wasting time and wait around boss ports for that job.

Healing:
I heal when people are about 70% health or when the mobs in the area seem rough.

Loading times:
Can't heal or reverse because it wont load? Use star atmoizer or Sol atomizer. Always have those linked to your consumable slots.

Rough spots about healing:
Just got out of a freeze and don't know if you should resta or use trimates? Well, I would use a trimate. There are possibilities that you will get smacked and killed afterwards. So don't take chances if your health is low.
---------------------------------------------------
Attacking

Enemy priorities:
1.Enemies surrounding you = Use Gi or aoe techs
2.Few enemies ahead of you = use Ra or dam techs
3.An enemy ahead of you = use Single techs
4.As the enemy number dwendles to nothing, make sure you switch around accordingly, don't just spam one skill over and over. You have more linked Techs than that that are more powerful.

Debuffing
Depending on party, if you are facing a giant mob or creatures that are hard to attack, too powerful to face, or just plain annoying, then you should try to debuff them. Especially the Bots and Big mobs. Other than that, if your party needs them at some places then give them debuffs if so desired.
---------------------------------------------------

I guess that's about it. Enjoy reading, or... skipping towards the end. ;]

By the way, at most I use the wand more than the rod only because they seem to die faster than rod speeds. There are a lot of PP limits so of course having rods there is also still good.

[l0c0dantes]

Wow, all your page long posts seem like a lot of work.

I heal when they are hurt, Buff when they ask and nuke when in doubt >_>

[Zorak000]

On 2007-10-30 12:49, Fresh wrote:
Ok you sound like a idiot "sol atomizers aren't for fighters and gunner blah blah blah" you must have never seen level 30 resta it can heal a very long distance where a damn sol atomizer could never heal maybe you party with noobs that don't have a thing called higher percent armor.... It works...... I left my thought for whoever started this post good luck



Durr... Sol atomizers are "reverser-in-a-can" not "resta-in-a-can". you were thinking about Star atomizers... lol

[Mystil]

On 2007-10-30 09:35, Remedy wrote:
You've got the measure of a good FT. Most people here don't. *shrug*

Unfortunately, in AotI, that list will apply to ATs and FTs will become dumbed-down nuking idiots. =/


I suggest you stick with FT a little ways into AoI first before jumping on the AT bandwagon.

[Zael]

From my experiences, the better FTs are usually the ones who played Force on PSO.

[Remedy]

On 2007-10-30 15:13, Zael wrote:
From my experiences, the better FTs are usually the ones who played Force on PSO.Yeah, for the most part. It's usually fairly obvious, especially when I ask them.

[ymene]

Every good techer needs a gi-senba.

[Sasamichan]

On 2007-10-30 15:30, ymene wrote:
Every good techer needs a gi-senba.



QFT

[ThEoRy]

On 2007-10-30 09:35, Remedy wrote:
You've got the measure of a good FT. Most people here don't. *shrug*

Unfortunately, in AotI, that list will apply to ATs and FTs will become dumbed-down nuking idiots. =/


No, I most certainly will not. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Alrac]

well I'm a neuman FT and my pallet look like this

(attack spell, resta, diffent element attack, debuff for taging)
(attack spell, resta, diffent element attack, debuff for taging)
(elemental rod when facing weak critters)
cards ; (,attack, giresta) wand
cards ; (diga/foie, resta) wand for damage.
( buff rod)

for single big enemies i found that diga/foie does more that people doing 30~50 extra damge
50*3= 150 diga = 900 hmmmmm

i stop using revser cause it take up a slot, but have sol to unfreeze people, and for any other stat effect i just keep them healed.

i also prefer jellen as a deff, the only one i use. people take less damge so i don't have to resta as much so i can nuke more.

as for bows i equip them when ned them aka boss battles, olamaga


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alrac on 2007-10-31 04:40 ]</font>

[Kinako78]

My techer is still just a force, currently, but here's her current setup, as well as I can remember:

rod with all buffs
rod with Resta, Reverser, and two Gi techs
rod with other 4 Gi techs
saber and handgun
bow

I think that's it. Need to fill up that last slot sometime.

[Umberger]

I use:

1: Attack Rod - Whatever element is useful
2: Attack Rod - Same as #1
3: Attack Rod - Different element
4: Attack Rod - Same as #2
5: Light Rod - Resta/Reverser/Regrant/Retier
6: Buff Rod

I have an Ageha-Kikami, two Roksaris, and a Magical Wand in my inventory when appropriate. As long as you're using the right element as an Attack Force, or keeping things debuffed/your party healthy as a Support Force, you're fine. Most of the time, people will use Trimates before I would even be able to use Resta if it was on the same Rod...I really don't think it's that big of a deal to have Resta on every slot. It's becoming more of a casual free heal than a necessity.

Point is, as long as creatures are dying, and your party isn't, you're a good Fortetecher. This game doesn't require that much thinking/skill/planning, just do the basic stuff you need to get by and you'll be fine.

[Sasamichan]

On 2007-10-30 16:42, Umberger wrote:
I use:

1: Attack Rod - Whatever element is useful
2: Attack Rod - Same as #1
3: Attack Rod - Different element
4: Attack Rod - Same as #2
5: Light Rod - Resta/Reverser/Regrant/Retier
6: Buff Rod

I have an Ageha-Kikami, two Roksaris, and a Magical Wand in my inventory when appropriate. As long as you're using the right element as an Attack Force, or keeping things debuffed/your party healthy as a Support Force, you're fine. Most of the time, people will use Trimates before I would even be able to use Resta if it was on the same Rod...I really don't think it's that big of a deal to have Resta on every slot. It's becoming more of a casual free heal than a necessity.

Point is, as long as creatures are dying, and your party isn't, you're a good Fortetecher. This game doesn't require that much thinking/skill/planning, just do the basic stuff you need to get by and you'll be fine.



Best post ever.

[Kalvin01]

My pallete changes depending on the mission. I carry 7 rods altogether (One for each element and Buffs) and 4 wands. I only carry so much because I'm too lazy to edit rods. As a FOmar any little bit helps. For the wands I have 1 Attack wand depending on the mission but its usually a Diga wand. A cometarac for heals since it has more PP and 2 extra wands that I do edit because I play as a WT also. Anyway as a fT, this is usually what I have equipped:

1- Buff Rod
2- Pure Attack Rod (First element depending on the mission)
3- Heal Rod -> Resta/Reverser/Giresta/Regrants
4- Pure Attack Rod (Second element depending on the mission)
5- Varies - Dark bow; debuff Rod for Robot missions, Diga Wand/Rod or Foie Wand
6- Varies - Usually empty but if I Slot 5 is occupied, I equip this slot with what's necessary

Few notables on how I play personally:
- I always always buff after someone Nano's or SUV's or dies. No question about it.
- Notice I don't usually carry a debuff rod. That is because I link Jellen, Zalure, and Zodeel on my Fire, Ice, and Lightning rods, respectively. I usually carry both my fire and ice rod so Jellen and Zalure is available. I rarely debuff because I reserve it for when the big mobs spawn. I would usually have debuff wars with mobs that buff themselves often (i.e. Polavohra and those NPC mobs in GoF and Endrum). When I'm in robot land, however, I WILL carry a debuff rod because the only element to use there is Lightning and you need all 3 debuffs when your among Fighters and Gunners. But if I'm with more than one gunner who will use Killershot it's almost unnecessary since they die too quickly.
- I heal the party members anytime I can, even if its one person. I usually Resta first before Reverser-ing depending on the status effect and how much HP they have left. If its over 80% it's safe to reverser first. Also, I always carry my heal rod/wand in between my two pure attack rods. That way I'm only a slot away from either side. I usually never have problems with resta loads unless it's the beginning of the block. But in the case that it doesn't load on time, I will use a Star and Sol Atomizer that I always keep on my consumables pallete. Also, if I'm in the middle of casting a tech that takes a while and theres a member needing of a heal that is in range, I will use a Star Atomizer. Don't want to take any chances with switching to the Heal Rod AND then casting it.

My playstyle as a fT is pretty specific so I'm sorry if it looked/sounded a bit complicated(or even boring) but this is how I've been playing PSU since release. I've never picked up PSO before so this game would be my first in the series. Although, I have been playing the Healer class in all my past MMOs and this is no different. I know in my own mind that I know what I'm doing and I do it pretty well according to people I've played with.

Edit: Added a few more things... XD
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kalvin01 on 2007-10-30 18:03 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kalvin01 on 2007-10-30 18:06 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kalvin01 on 2007-10-30 18:09 ]</font>

[Dragwind]

Varies a ton on the situation and playstyle, but yeah. Definitely should support AND attack imo.

As a fT, probably not take supporting into the highest priority, but yeah. Take elemental damage, tech AoE type, and cane/rod speed into consideration during missions too.

[MelanyKoura]

How I see it, just set up your stuff in a way you're comfortable with it. As long as no one complains, you're good.

--Staves--

All buffs
Base spells (Foie, Barta, Zonde, Diga)
Gi-Spells (or Dam-spells, this is a multitasker)
Ra-spells

--Wand--
Resta, Reverser (paired with a kikami. Forgot which)
Resta, Giresta (switch out with the above wand when needed)

And a bow to top it off. Got no complaints, got no suggestions. How I see it, everyone liked how I did my job. If someone got hurt bad, I pull out the wand and start healing. I like to consider myself more like a White Mage since I enjoy healing and buffing more than anything else and seem to do so very quickly.

Not saying I'm a professional Fortetecher, I just know I'm doing a good job.

Once more, just set up things in a manner that YOU are comfortable with. Though some of the setups above may be good, I'm still sticking with, set up the spells how you want it. Afterall, you're playing your character your way, not anyone elses. Just do what comes natural and as long as no one complains, you're fine.

[creativehope]

So by the end of the day its about comfort in my pallete and support of the team. and a situational approach to things, not a systematic approach, these are things that we can agree on I take it?

[Omega_Weltall]

On 2007-10-30 20:10, creativehope wrote:
So by the end of the day its about comfort in my pallete and support of the team. and a situational approach to things, not a systematic approach, these are things that we can agree on I take it?


Ya pretty much. It just irks me when people only want you to be a heal bot when you have other abilities such as nukeing (yes spells hurt, ALOT), and playing a limited ranger's role with bows and cards. YES If someone's hurt by all means, heal them cause you'er the only one with resta (unless there's a Guntecher or WarTecher then they have it to but yours is MUCH better) I've played Cleric on EQ for a long time and know how to play healer (kinda sick of it too). Sometimes if someone is only minutely injured i'd still throw out a resta in case some one else gets hit mid cast. There have been many times when I buffed on the run and before I can swich to my attack rods there's 1 mob left, WEEE I'll level in no time at this rate http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif! Ah anyway I'm ramleing again. But yea, just be mindful of the situation, and dont blind everyone with Dambarta (thank god mine's only lv 14) I also play FiGunner and FortGunner and its a pain when a 21+ DamBarta blocks your screen.

[waluigi1]

So...are Pure nuke/healing fT's bad? Like if one doesn't use buffs or debuffs much at all?
Also kinda an opinion question...Should Wartechers be expected to heal other people a lot?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: waluigi1 on 2007-10-30 21:06 ]</font>

[Omega_Weltall]

i wouldint say BAD but... ya its not a good idea NOT to use buffs or debuffs, especialy if youer the only force in the party. Or atleast use rentier for your self if ya gonna just purely nuke.

[waluigi1]

Well back when I was a fT on PS2, I never used Debuffs cause it was just too much to have and try to lvl...

[milka]

I wonder.. everyone asks for the FT to give support... keep healing.. buffing... whatever..

But what about the other classes? dont you make you mad when they do nothing to help... easy use Star or Sol to keep going... Or just use the buff itens in crazy places?!?! instead of just asking for buff and heal...

And plus.. FT are like forced to have good lv buff and heal.. but what about theirs PA and Wps?? you keep buffing and healing ppl that do damage around 100-200.. wth???!?!? I rather just buff me and use my attack magic 1k-2k!!!

Again.. I'm just a support techers for those who deserves... friends and no scrubers...

[Gen2000]

Point is, as long as creatures are dying, and your party isn't, you're a good Fortetecher. This game doesn't require that much thinking/skill/planning, just do the basic stuff you need to get by and you'll be fine.

Yeah it's not that complicated, just use proper element to help speed up kills, buff people, debuff large mobs, and keep party alive. People mainly just care that you're keeping them alive and buffing the most anyways but I have more respect for the FOs that try to add as much damage as they can for the few times they get a chance to sneak an attack in to help speed up kills while supporting too.


But what about the other classes? dont you make you mad when they do nothing to help... easy use Star or Sol to keep going... Or just use the buff itens in crazy places?!?! instead of just asking for buff and heal...

I use Star/Sol on any other player that needs it, FO or not. Do I get mad when they don't do the same for me? A little but I come to expect that from most of the players in this community. A good thing is the people I party with most with has a similiar playstyle like me and use Stars/Sols just as much as I do (you can't complain about the lack of it since 90% of the players skip over it during missions, they even sell Sols in NPC shops).

[Neith]

On 2007-10-30 18:38, Dragwind wrote:
As a fT, probably not take supporting into the highest priority, but yeah. Take elemental damage, tech AoE type, and cane/rod speed into consideration during missions too.



Eh, I disagree there. You should be supporting primarily, at least until aT is released in AoI (and even then, that doesn't let you just turn into a Diga spamming machine, you should if anything, support the aT when things hot up). Support first, then only when support isn't required, nuke. Resta whenever someone gets to 60% or so HP, regardless if you think they'll pop mates. Reverser people of dangerous statuses (Poison usually doesn't hurt enough to qualify as dangerous). Use Sols/Stars for fast recovery- Resta/Reverser isn't always quick enough.

Buff at the start of a mission, and as soon as buffs run out (or even just before). Debuff enemies depending on how they should be handled. Ageetas are pathetic, and only need Zalure so they can be killed faster. Enemies like Kamatoze should ideally be fully debuffed.

With the way the game is currently, fT is the main Force class, therefore for now, the entire burden of support is on you, so use it. As a fT, you are expected to assist the party- and assist does not mean spam Diga/Dambarta like a zombie. You will be expected to Resta and Reverser, and buff/debuff. You are the best at it, so do it. I know it sounds annoying that Hunters expect this of you, but Hunters repay the favour (if they're any good) by keeping crowds of monsters controlled.

One thing I've also noticed with 1Up is the large amount of fT's with Lv1-10 buffs. I think it's because of the Pumpkinhead, and people newer to the game just wanting to use it. I know Lv1 buffs help, but I may as well pop an Agtaride for a better boost.

As you can probably tell, bad fTs are one of the things that annoy me the most in PSU. I'm not a great fT, but at least I know why I have support techs.

Oh yeah, my pallette:
Magical Wand: (Resta/Reverser)
Granarodoc: (Shifta/Deband/Zodial/Retier)
Granarodoc: (Jellen/Zalure/Zoldeel/Resta)
Howrod: (Foie/Gifoie/Rafoie/Damfoie)
Halarod: (Diga/Radiga/Gidiga/Nosdiga)
Howrod: (Dambarta/Rabarta/Gibarta, and Deband for the 12% boost)

I also carry another Magical Wand with two attack techs, mainly for EX missions, a Cometarac with Resta/Reverser, a Kikami, a Hanmateric, and a Howrod that I use other attack techs on (mainly either all lightning, or dark), and I bring these onto my pallette when I need them.

It's not a hard class to play, you just need some decent armour, and a bit of common sense.

[drizzle]

lol, it'll take longer to kill ageetas if you waste time casting Zalure on them http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif
A Zalured small monster dies in maybe 1 or 2 hits less than normal. With big hitters like Dus Majarra it may not even make a difference at all. Common sense says, don't even bother.

As for the rest... maybe. Jellen/Zoldeel is usually a waste of time. Zalure on big monsters, if it would stick on the first try, which it usually won't if you want it to, maybe. Just forget about debuffs and kill, it's almost always faster http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif



Oh yeah, good FT =

1) Try to stay alive http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif
2) Keep party alive
3) Keep party operating at peak efficiency (buffs, reverser)
4) Blow stuff up


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: drizzle on 2007-10-31 06:03 ]</font>

[perfectminute]

On 2007-10-30 09:54, Kamiense wrote:



Who the fuck would have 6 rods? Plus 12% elemental DOES help.

Oh, hi S rank Bow and Cards, oh, you're good at killing Onma and you can cuase status effects?

A force that only uses techs is COMPLETELY USELESS. We have other weapons for a reason. Stop acting like techs are all we have.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kamiense on 2007-10-30 09:59 ]</font>
[/quote]

That about the stupidist thing I've ever heard. Last I checked FT have alot more TP then atp or ata... And their is such a thing as switching weapons on your pallete. Dam techs also have the same SE as cards and bows.

While you probably should have an elemental rod for nuking, you ought to change it for every mission, so only have 1 or 2 pure rods at a time. The rest should be buffs, debuffs, and other element techs.

[Kamiense]

On 2007-10-31 06:17, perfectminute wrote:

On 2007-10-30 09:54, Kamiense wrote:

Who the fuck would have 6 rods? Plus 12% elemental DOES help.

Oh, hi S rank Bow and Cards, oh, you're good at killing Onma and you can cuase status effects?

A force that only uses techs is COMPLETELY USELESS. We have other weapons for a reason. Stop acting like techs are all we have.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kamiense on 2007-10-30 09:59 ]</font>


That about the stupidist thing I've ever heard. Last I checked FT have alot more TP then atp or ata... And their is such a thing as switching weapons on your pallete. Dam techs also have the same SE as cards and bows.

While you probably should have an elemental rod for nuking, you ought to change it for every mission, so only have 1 or 2 pure rods at a time. The rest should be buffs, debuffs, and other element techs.



*clap* Bravo, you didn't read the other post to see what I was talking about. Congratulations. Last time I checked, Fortetechers have other weapons for a reason.

Who wouldn't change rods for each mission, that's just ignorant. Please think before bringing up old drama.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kamiense on 2007-10-31 06:24 ]</font>

[Konstanse_Xx]

I think as a Wartecher, I'm kinda experiencing the future for fT's.

I support(very well from all the thanks I get I guess) when I'm the only techer in party, and whenever I'm all good I go in to melee, they know that if I'm attacking to not pester me to heal.

I heal/buff(dont nuke anymore cause the only thing I use magic on is to suppress Ollakas).

A good fT to me isn't one who follows a strict formula imo, as long as the person helps the team then they're great in my book. whther it be nuking, debuffing, trapping, smashing, w/e. >_>

[milka]

Video of a good Techer :3

http://en.netlog.com/go/videos/videoid=461696

[Neith]

On 2007-10-31 05:56, drizzle wrote:
Just forget about debuffs and kill, it's almost always faster http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif


http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

For soloing, yes. For partying, no. If you're not debuffing, it's slower. Considering it takes what, 1 second to cast Zalure on a spawn of Ageeta anyway.Now consider that Ageeta in particular are tech-resistant, and think about what you could have done in that 1-2 seconds. Gifoie maybe? You'll do pathetic damage. Foie? You're only getting an EXP tag, and only helping with one target.

Debuffs are very, very potent, so it seems stupid for a fT to not use them. True, Twin Mayalee can cover Zalure- if you have a competent Ranger who will use it. Jellen is covered by Yak Maga, but again, most people will just take Zagenga and be happier they're hitting big numbers. Zoldeel is covered by the first Ult Shotgun PA, but I barely see anyone use it. Having said that, most RA's on Uni2 just pull out elemental bullets and go for big numbers anyway, rather than doing their job. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

The only times I don't debuff as a fT is if I know it's too dangerous. For example, running into a group of buffed Fire Olgohmons is probably not a great idea, but i will still debuff them if they're not trying to kill me. Only other time would be in EX missions, where nuking does come first. If you're not debuffing, you're making your party's time harder. The way I see if, if you have these techs, you should be using them, unless they suck, which debuffs don't.

[CelestialBlade]

On 2007-10-31 06:17, perfectminute wrote:

On 2007-10-30 09:54, Kamiense wrote:

Who the fuck would have 6 rods? Plus 12% elemental DOES help.

Oh, hi S rank Bow and Cards, oh, you're good at killing Onma and you can cuase status effects?

A force that only uses techs is COMPLETELY USELESS. We have other weapons for a reason. Stop acting like techs are all we have.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kamiense on 2007-10-30 09:59 ]</font>


That about the stupidist thing I've ever heard. Last I checked FT have alot more TP then atp or ata... And their is such a thing as switching weapons on your pallete. Dam techs also have the same SE as cards and bows.

While you probably should have an elemental rod for nuking, you ought to change it for every mission, so only have 1 or 2 pure rods at a time. The rest should be buffs, debuffs, and other element techs.



Yeah, because you can totally hit Onmagoug with Diga and Dambarta.

[Reipard]

I think tagging should take first priority. Support can come second. That is, unless the party would actually like to have consideration for its members and let people tag before flattening the entire enemy group. That rarely happens, but it's not necessarily the fault of the party. It is the result of the poorly thought out experience system.

If you do nothing but support and only bother to start tagging when everyone is nice and healed and ~everything is AOK~ then you're going to level incredibly slowly, fall behind and be useless.

In PSO my FO had to literally run ahead of the party just so she could get surrounded to cast Zalure and then default to supporting. Now with everything/everyone else faster that's even harder to accomplish but much more necessary since all casting is so much slower.

[drizzle]

On 2007-10-31 06:37, UrikoBB3 wrote:

On 2007-10-31 05:56, drizzle wrote:
Just forget about debuffs and kill, it's almost always faster http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif


http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

For soloing, yes. For partying, no. If you're not debuffing, it's slower. Considering it takes what, 1 second to cast Zalure on a spawn of Ageeta anyway.Now consider that Ageeta in particular are tech-resistant, and think about what you could have done in that 1-2 seconds. Gifoie maybe? You'll do pathetic damage. Foie? You're only getting an EXP tag, and only helping with one target.

Debuffs are very, very potent, so it seems stupid for a fT to not use them. True, Twin Mayalee can cover Zalure- if you have a competent Ranger who will use it. Jellen is covered by Yak Maga, but again, most people will just take Zagenga and be happier they're hitting big numbers. Zoldeel is covered by the first Ult Shotgun PA, but I barely see anyone use it. Having said that, most RA's on Uni2 just pull out elemental bullets and go for big numbers anyway, rather than doing their job. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

The only times I don't debuff as a fT is if I know it's too dangerous. For example, running into a group of buffed Fire Olgohmons is probably not a great idea, but i will still debuff them if they're not trying to kill me. Only other time would be in EX missions, where nuking does come first. If you're not debuffing, you're making your party's time harder. The way I see if, if you have these techs, you should be using them, unless they suck, which debuffs don't.



http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

A level 100 Ageeta has ~5907 (from psupedia) HP. Let's say a Majarra spammer does 500 damage a hit. He'll probably do more, but for the sake of this argument... it'll take 12 hits to kill the ageeta.
This aggeeta has 285 DFP. Zaluring it (-20% DFP) reduces this DFP by 57, which is 14 more damage per hit.
Now this majarra spammer hits for 514 a hit. And it still takes 12 hits to kill the Ageeta, and your zalure was completely wasted. Your rafoie could have killed it faster, see?

This is a weak monster. On average monsters you need 1, maybe 2 hits less when it's zalured.

A level 100 Olgohomon has 8860 HP, 357 DFP. At 500 per hit it'll take 18 hits normally, and 18 when -20% zalured. Again, no difference. With -25% Zalure it would take 1 hit less -- barely. But since your hunters are probably hitting harder than 500, no difference again.

A 100 Kamatoze has 31504 HP, and 428 DFP. 64 hits @ 500 a hit normally, and 61 hits when zalured. 3 x 500 is roughly the damage a single foie does to it, with the added bonus of a chance of setting it on fire with Burn Lv4. Not to mention that it often takes 2 or more casts to make debuffs stick on a big monster, and some time to run up to it.

Not so potent anymore, is it http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

As for jellen, only on the more dangerous stuff, but even then you're probably better off with Resta. Resta doesn't care if you took 500 or 550 damage, you're going back to full health, and armor does a good enough job of reducing damage anyway!

Zoldeel has in most cases an effect very similar to zalure, making only a very small difference in hit rate. It's only really worth it on monsters with very high EVP.

[Remedy]

On 2007-10-31 06:38, Typheros wrote:
Yeah, because you can totally hit Onmagoug with Diga and Dambarta.*watches Nosuzonde fly though the air and hit Onmagoug*

Well what do you know.

Edit: In case some idiot takes this to mean that I don't whip my Hanmateric out against Onmagoug, it doesn't. I'm proving a point. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Remedy on 2007-10-31 07:28 ]</font>

[JAFO22000]

On 2007-10-30 16:33, Alrac wrote:

for single big enemies i found that diga/foie does more that people doing 30~50 extra damge
50*3= 150 diga = 900 hmmmmm



Wow! That is some great math there!

But, just suppose for a second that the other three hunter/ranger types in your party JUUUSSSSTT MIGHT hit these big enemies more than once between your diga shots and let's see....

50*3=150 extra/hit (after zalure)

150 extra/hit * 12 hits/diga = 1800 extra/diga

...and you only have to debuff ONCE, then you can start casting diga. Just imagine the party as a whole doing 1800 more damage for each shot of diga you cast....hmmmmmmm....

[CelestialBlade]

On 2007-10-31 07:27, Remedy wrote:

On 2007-10-31 06:38, Typheros wrote:
Yeah, because you can totally hit Onmagoug with Diga and Dambarta.
*watches Nosuzonde fly though the air and hit Onmagoug*

Not everyone has the frags for it/wants to spend frags on it. Just seems easier to carry a Bow around. I know you weren't arguing against that, just saying.

[Omega_Weltall]

I just always saw Ft as being the Wizard or Black Mage (DD and DoT spells) of PSU, and when AoI comes out AcroTecher the Cleric or White Mage (support and healing spells) especialy since AT is gonna have decent attack abilities compared to FT. But untill AOI FT fulfills both roles the best (Well WarTechers are prety close to a Cleric but is 2nd in TP to FT and .. well... as a GunTecher also, their Resta is a joke http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif )

[Sasamichan]

On 2007-10-31 07:27, Remedy wrote:
]*watches Nosuzonde fly though the air and hit Onmagoug*



Whats a Nosuzonde?

[CelestialBlade]

On 2007-10-31 10:20, Sasamichan wrote:

On 2007-10-31 07:27, Remedy wrote:
]*watches Nosuzonde fly though the air and hit Onmagoug*

Whats a Nosuzonde?

It's when a Zonde comes out of your nose.

Or maybe one of those wapanese things. I can't decide.

[Neith]

On 2007-10-31 07:20, drizzle wrote:
Now this majarra spammer hits for 514 a hit. And it still takes 12 hits to kill the Ageeta, and your zalure was completely wasted. Your rafoie could have killed it faster, see?

Then take into account when people start missing, and tons of other factors. Point is, the Ageeta (maybe not with Majarra, whatever) will be easier for the team especially if low leveled? if its stats are weakened down. You're here to assist the party, and by nuking everything you're just trying to be a damage dealer. Sorry, while you may not debuff smaller mobs, I don't see why I shouldn't. It helps the team out more, it gets an EXP tag for me, and considering the mixed-spawn nature of PSU mobs, you're likely to affect monsters which definately need the debuffs too.


This is a weak monster. On average monsters you need 1, maybe 2 hits less when it's zalured.

Exactly, you're still making things easier. Therefore, Zalure is helpful. Whether it only takes one ot two more hits, your primary role as a fT is to support in a team. I know Zalure doesn't make a massive difference, but the point is, it does make SOME difference. You're basing this assuming that everything hits (Hello Zoldeel, more support for you there).


A 100 Kamatoze has 31504 HP, and 428 DFP. 64 hits @ 500 a hit normally, and 61 hits when zalured. 3 x 500 is roughly the damage a single foie does to it, with the added bonus of a chance of setting it on fire with Burn Lv4. Not to mention that it often takes 2 or more casts to make debuffs stick on a big monster, and some time to run up to it.

I've played fF for ages, and I know how annoying it is when a FO doesn't debuff. Zalure is the least important, but you should still be casting it.


As for jellen, only on the more dangerous stuff, but even then you're probably better off with Resta.

You want to spam Resta everytime someone takes damage? Fine. I'd rather Jellen the mobs, then not worry about having to Resta everytime someone gets hit. Jellen works wonders, if you don't use that then ugh. I have no hope for fTs if they don't Jellen at the least.


Resta doesn't care if you took 500 or 550 damage, you're going back to full health, and armor does a good enough job of reducing damage anyway!

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif You're kidding, right? Unless you're packing 50% armours (in which case, give me some), S2 monsters (see 'Hive/Bil De Vear etc') pack a hell of a punch when they're not Jellened. With Jellen you cast it once, and negate the need to babysit your team, casting the occasional Resta after a few hits. Without Jellen, you won't even get a chance to nuke without someone needing help.

I'm not going to sit here and argue the toss over something as stupid as this. I'll keep playing fT with people who have an idea what they're doing, and how to help the party. You have access to techs that weaken enemies, yet you don't use them. I find that stupid, but if its how you play, go for it.

God help me when Acrotecher is released, may as well start banning fT's from joining parties if they don't even debuff in regular games http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

I give up.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: UrikoBB3 on 2007-10-31 10:52 ]</font>

[Cracka_J]

On 2007-10-31 06:59, Reipard wrote:
I think tagging should take first priority. Support can come second. That is, unless the party would actually like to have consideration for its members and let people tag before flattening the entire enemy group. That rarely happens, but it's not necessarily the fault of the party. It is the result of the poorly thought out experience system.

If you do nothing but support and only bother to start tagging when everyone is nice and healed and ~everything is AOK~ then you're going to level incredibly slowly, fall behind and be useless.


I think you hit on a big one there that a lot of FT players don't get. FF's now have godly damage with the new pa's, and if you're not tagging quickly, you will miss out on a lot of the xp. However, you can still tag everything and do it quick enough so you can get back to assisting and watching out for the party. Debuffs will do this for you, and for those who don't already know THEY COUNT AS A HIT/TAG. So, you can better yourself without looking selfish, and help the team if you start spamming these out at every mob.

Most of the stuff already posted is great advice for FT players looking to get better. Also, there are many different ways and styles to play the class. Personally, I play support. However I don't think the class should be limited to just that. Other classes are supplied with items for a reason, they should not have to rely on you just because you are a FT. Remember kids, how you play the game is up to you. Don't let someone else persuade or force you into a playstyle you don't enjoy just because they believe it's right. Just take the advice and come up with a style that suits you best. And really, that's the best way to ENJOY playing a FT.

[drizzle]

I don't know how much clearer I can be. Missing has no relevance to how effective zalure is. 12 hits is 12 hits (note: hits, not attacks). It does NOT help the team out more, it doesn't do a darn thing except waste the nurse's time that he could spend dealing damage instead. In the examples I showed you, Zalure does not bring the time to kill the target down in any way and in fact it takes longer because the techer isn't attacking.

I did say jellen is occasionally useful. Just not on most things.

[Reipard]

It brings down the time to kill the target significantly when combined with a Shifta.

Zalure, Zoldeel, Jellen- it doesn't matter which debuff you use. Just use whatever you think actually benefits the team.

[Xaeris]

Then take into account when people start missing, and tons of other factors. Point is, the Ageeta (maybe not with Majarra, whatever) will be easier for the team especially if low leveled? if its stats are weakened down. You're here to assist the party, and by nuking everything you're just trying to be a damage dealer. Sorry, while you may not debuff smaller mobs, I don't see why I shouldn't. It helps the team out more, it gets an EXP tag for me, and considering the mixed-spawn nature of PSU mobs, you're likely to affect monsters which definately need the debuffs too.

If you want to cast your debuff techs, knock yourself out. But please stop kidding yourself. It wouldn't matter if Zalure increased damage by 10k; if the enemy still dies in the same amount of hits it would have without it, then it did not do anything. It's ridiculous to fault someone for recognizing that and opting to do something that does have an effect.


It brings down the time to kill the target significantly when combined with a Shifta.

This is funny, because they actually work against each other. Shifta (ideally) reduces the amount of hits required to kill an enemy. Zalure sees more of its potential as the amount of hits required to kill the enemy rises. That isn't to say you'd rather have Deband on the enemy instead, but it does say that as your attack power increases, Zalure becomes more and more inconsequential.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Xaeris on 2007-10-31 11:20 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

For my money, Zoldeel is the best debuff. Gravity Break does monsterous damage but accuracy is right on the edge... zoldeel it's pretty solid. You can just assume that casting it is worth at least one 2000hp that would have whiffed otherwise. Against large monsters with knockback / knockdown / stun type hits, any lucky blocking your team DOES get doesn't just put off that resta you need to cast for a couple more seconds... they can also throw out a counter attack faster (DPS) and possibly get the monster off its feet before it hits again (more damage avoided)

No, it doesn't make an enormous statistical difference in any one place but I think the combined effects of Zoldeel are > all other debuffs.

[BigBadWolf]

Carry extra traps for Rangers in your party to use during Neudaiz Mission.

[Rizen]

On 2007-10-31 06:28, milka wrote:
Video of a good Techer :3

http://en.netlog.com/go/videos/videoid=461696


Nicely done. I can say that was the perfect mix of what a Fortetecher should do in any given situation. Didn't spend too much time nuking and didn't spent too much time supporting. Also, you used what was necessary for the situation. I'm very impressed. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Ryoki]

On 2007-10-30 09:59, Remedy wrote:
You should never be more than a switch of a side of your rod away from Resta, my dear. :3


I felt like this in PSO, but healing seems easier than it did then. Resta takes a bit of pp per cast.
Although I know what you are getting at, and you have more experience than I do.

I do know, though, that...

Diga techs are generally strong, and do not require a percent boost

This also applies to Foie, I'de say.

Barta, especially, could be helped by that elemental percent. It could add more sting to it, and, if you use the same type of rod to switch to to heal, it loads faster. (EX. Crea doubles of different elements just change color when switched to another element, whereas a different weapon would require more loading.)

That's just my opinion from what I know, though.

(Regrants in HIVE with resta+reverser+giresta would be cool http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif. 12% elemental boost.)


However, from the noticable differences in playstyle and my past playing as a humar, I can tell that for smaller mobs, Debuffs are pretty pointless. In PSO, jellen saved me many times, but in PSU, smaller enemies don't do a whole lot.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ryoki on 2007-10-31 12:24 ]</font>

[milka]

On 2007-10-31 12:17, Rizen wrote:

On 2007-10-31 06:28, milka wrote:
Video of a good Techer :3

http://en.netlog.com/go/videos/videoid=461696


Nicely done. I can say that was the perfect mix of what a Fortetecher should do in any given situation. Didn't spend too much time nuking and didn't spent too much time supporting. Also, you used what was necessary for the situation. I'm very impressed. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif



Thank you n_n;

[ShynForce]

IMO As long as you heal your party when needed cure SE and make sure the party is buffed at all time you should be able to play anyway you want. My setup is as follows

Rod1 Diga,NosDiga,GiDiga,RaDiga
Rod2 Dambarta,Rabarta,Zalure,Barta
Rod3 Foie,DamFoie,Rafoie,Jellen
Rod4 Shifta,Deband,Retier,Zodial
Bow with Dark Element for lv4 Infect
Wand with Resta,Reverser and Ice Card,Fire,Ground

I only heal with my wands i carry 2 other wands just in case my first wand runs out wands cast fast even faster with Me/Quick never have a problem healing my party and i can enjoy killing stuff with extra boost with having same element on my Rod.

[waluigi1]

It seems most of the opinions of fT here say it should be focused on support above all else...but where is the rule that says fT can't be an offensive class?

[TranceZiggy]

On 2007-10-30 09:35, Remedy wrote:
You've got the measure of a good FT. Most people here don't. *shrug*

Unfortunately, in AotI, that list will apply to ATs and FTs will become dumbed-down nuking idiots. =/



It'll be like PSO Rafoie all over again n.n

[erickarim]

ima nuke head http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif probably one of the worst ones. wont debuff because its mathematicaly impractical. yes it has is advantages but really. a death monster is the best monster. heals/reverser do come easy from me. but if your hit and theres a monster or two left. heal will come when they are death.

being a fortetecher gives me the possibility to be one of the main damage dealers.

none of the mixed classes can out damage me in 90% of the situations. period. fg? il outdamage most of the times, but its evident im doing more damage. and ff ? can i outdamage ff ?? yup i can. just pile me up enough monsters and il outdamage ultimate ff's (25/75 him doing more more damage http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif ).


nuking idiot yes. i am the one nuking idiot that out damages most of the classes and keeps you alive and buffed. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif




ps.- ofcourse this variates on planets. me not that hot on neu-ll. me super hot on par-moat

[Pillan]

Are you sure your output is that high?

Techers, especially Newman techers, are notorious for confusing big numbers with high output. They see their Diga does 2000 damage but don’t realize a Fortegunner with a crossbow gets the same damage in the time it takes for you to cast Diga and reposition yourself for the next cast nor that the Wartecher gets more damage out of Rising Strike in the time without considering the repositioning if he’s got more than 20% element. Don’t get me wrong: techers do have an incredibly high potential output on the Gi- and Dam- series, but how often do you get more than 3 enemies trapped in Dambarta? And, when you do, how long before the hunter knocks them out of it?

So, in a party, the likelihood that the fT is actually doing more damage than anyone else is inversely proportional to the number of hunters within that party. If you’re playing with 2 or more hunters, you’re most likely the lowest contributor in terms of damage, but you can easily be the highest in terms of support.

[erickarim]

yup thats the key. high enemy count + aoe spells and keeping dps high.

knowing the map. stepping ahead with preemptive dambarta is the way to go for fire enemies. 600-1300 damage per tick on 3-8 enemies. my gi spells damage for 1200-1500 per hit. and i love to get in the middle of things and go hades on them.

if one of my teamates knocks back or launches enemies i pull out regrants. witch is the most annoying thing there is in psu. and ask them politely not to launch things. tight mob is the way to high dps. ( an all around rule ).

yeah a loot forte fighters means my dps drops. but like i said. learn to play offensively. and compliment each other. if a mele is needed help him deal damage, if a gunner is rocking. support him rock. but if theres a mob. 4 -10 or susceptible monster. witch its very very often. il kick it harder that anyone.

hehe ohh yeah bosses > me most of the time http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif




ps.- those damage numbers are not crits. are numbers of a 95 lvl, max skills, sori tech charged, 9* (10) user.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-11-02 12:36, erickarim wrote:
my gi spells damage for 1200-1500 per hit.

How quickly are you hitting with those Gi? It's not a fast tech. For comparison's sake you can have fighers cranking out 600 x2 targets x7 hits in a really short span of time with Majarra... a ridiculously short time... then 1200x3 for the finisher. Are you getting 1, 1.5, or 2 techs cast in the same time?

I'm not saying Ft's don't do great damage, I want to know how it compares with state-of-the-art fighter damage.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-11-02 13:29 ]</font>

[erickarim]

maj is 2x3-2x4-4x1

first strikes is 800x2x3= 4800 second is 800x4x2 = 6400 and finaly 1600 x 4 = 6400 for a total 17600 total damage if all hits. this takes them 6-7 seconds.

and its best case scenario.

best case scenario for me would be. ( magical wand (6) + pure element )

6x1400 = 8400 every 2-2.5 seconds.


best case scenario is tight. but since gi spells cover more ground that maj. and my spell always hits ( compared to maj witch mises a loot ). thats when i gain the upper hand.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: erickarim on 2007-11-02 13:48 ]</font>

[BigBadWolf]

On 2007-11-01 22:50, waluigi1 wrote:
It seems most of the opinions of fT here say it should be focused on support above all else...but where is the rule that says fT can't be an offensive class?



This is because pre-AoI FT is the main support class, we deal great damage, but not as much as melee. That's why there's major focus on support over damage.

Clearly though, a good Fortetecher is one that does both good healing and good damage, and at least debuffs with Zoldeel. Even in AoI and Acrotecher we will still be heavy into support techs.
A Newman FT already heals for full hp with less than level 30 resta, level 31+ has the same range as 21+ so it's a non issue. Same thing with Reverser. The only thing AT would be better at is buffboting, and that's great for FT's because who really wants to chase around players all day trying to buff? Unless AT is broken, FT will definitely be outdamaging them with our level 40 techs, so the role of FTs being both good damage dealing and support will remain unchanged.