Why don't people want you doing high damage with Slicers?

[Agnostic187]

I'm only asking this really for people that do not want people using Slicers in their party because they are, "too Powerful."

Are they THAT overpowered that you cannot do any damage? Or do they like the runs being slower than normal?

[Mystil]

*Thinks back to the days of Black King Bar in PSO*.

Because overpowered weapons will kill things so fast that others will not be able to get hits in.

[Sev]

Maybe they are just that overpowered. What I'm wondering is, will there be a change for Swords to hit more targets now that Whip is doing it. I guess not because then it would actually be fun to use...

[Rizen]

Yes they are. Basically, the way Slicers were when AoI released was on the status of "Kill Stealing". 1 Person using a Slicer could very easily wipe out an entire room in seconds, leaving teammates nothing to tag who are still behind.

So basically, people using Slicers have to be considerate of their teammates.

[Remedy]

I'd at least like to get a single tech of before a 110/15 Beast FF clears out AN ENTIRE FUCKING ROOM.

[Rashiid]

It ruins the fun for everyone else.

[Sev]

So is it like Dreamcast Version 1 Spread Needle? That was awful.

[Reipard]

You have demonstrated that you have no idea how game balance works. You demonstrated the same thing the first time you brought this up in the update thread either.

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-15 16:32, Sev wrote:
So is it like Dreamcast Version 1 Spread Needle? That was awful.From what I've heard, it's that bad if not worse.

[HFlowen]

On 2007-11-15 16:32, Sev wrote:
So is it like Dreamcast Version 1 Spread Needle? That was awful.

Pretty much what I was thinking.

[Agnostic187]

Oh wow, good thing I didn't start with a rant on how players should be better to deal damage, I didn't know they meant they were THAT overpowered, Jesus Christ -_-

[Rizen]

On 2007-11-15 16:33, Remedy wrote:

On 2007-11-15 16:32, Sev wrote:
So is it like Dreamcast Version 1 Spread Needle? That was awful.From what I've heard, it's that bad if not worse.


Same level I'd say.

[Sev]

That's pretty awful. I'll be glad to see it nerfed then... I lost so much EXP to Spread Needles... Silly Hunter wanting to melee stuff. :|

[Remedy]

I don't remember v1 Needles that much, sadly. D: I do remember "oh fuck not another" but... meh. I had Gizonde, that was good enough for me. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Powder Keg]

Has anyone personally seen them in action yet? Were they really going to be the next SPREAD NEEDLE +99?

If so, I'm glad they got nerfed because killing things way too fast really would take the fun out of the game.

[Mystil]

LOL Spread needles were so bad that any gun type weapon capable of hitting 4 targets at once was frowned upon. Little memory refreshing; Spread Needle was all you needed. Once you get the ATA, you can breeze through even RUINS. And plus it made enemies flinch. You never had to mate/resta yourself LOL.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mystil on 2007-11-15 16:39 ]</font>

[Pillan]

The first PA is 360% ATP on the first move followed by 400% x 2 on the second move at level 40. Then that's multiplied by 1.5 for Just Attack and multiplied by 1.1 to 1.38 depending on your element after the nerf. And don't forget that all of that damage is applied to an infinite number of targets.

Kind of easy to see why that could be slightly overpowered. I don't understand why they thought giving a hunter a laser cannon that was stronger than Barta could ever be balanced. Much less one that has twice the modifier of a laser cannon.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-11-15 16:39 ]</font>

[Flamingo99]

On 2007-11-15 16:31, Remedy wrote:
I'd at least like to get a single tech of before a 110/15 Beast FF clears out AN ENTIRE FUCKING ROOM.



I lol'd pretty hard....

I remember Spread Needles being hated in PSO for this very reason...

[Egg99]

From what I understand, it's a situation along the same lines as what BKB with hacking was in PSO... that is to say, obscene damage in a matter of seconds.

I'm assuming this translates to 90% of non-slicer people not even being able to tag some things. I could be wrong though. Maybe most people are just scared of big numbers?

[Powder Keg]

Yeah, in Dreamcast PSO Needles were pretty bad, even without percentages, but a lot of nerds liked to hack them to hell and back being able to clear a room in seconds. I used to love stealing them and selling them when they died. (the hacked ones)

In GC, they got a significant nerf, and weren't really that bad at all. The ATP was lowered on them, and they only had the range of a mechgun.

Slicers sound like a lot of fun, though. Who the hell gave them that kind of ATP% on the PAs though? That sounds ridiculous.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Artea on 2007-11-15 16:45 ]</font>

[Skuda]

I may have to take advantage of this slicer overpower for soloing. That way I'm not imposing on my friends, yet still reaping the slicer goodness benefit.

I also totally understand the need for nerfing, and hope it will be implemented soon. I likes me some balance.

[Lamak]

Slicers should be nerfed, it's basically: Infinite, AoE, Pierce, Melee, Fortefighter, Just Attack rape.

[Agnostic187]

As long as you can do over 1k damage with them after nerf, they'll be good enough.

[Lamak]

If you can hit infinite enemies with one move, the move should be weak. Example: Line Techs.

[KRKcl17]

Considering it's already getting nerfed in PSU JP, I don't think we really have much to talk about here.
It was clear that ONE PERSON could clear out a whole room with 1 or 2 full PA's. It would be, as previously mentioned, about as bad as Spread Needle +99. >_>

[spoiler-box] IMO, it's for the better. [/spoiler-box]

[Remedy]

On 2007-11-15 17:05, Lamak wrote:
If you can use the PA through a Wand, Madoog, or Rod, the move should be weak. Example: Techs. Fixed.

[Mangekyou]

Reminds me of the Lavis Cannon of PSOBB... Good times...

Now remember everybody hated me for having one, it pwned everything.
But what does the slicer do? Same as PSO? I'm curious, I havn't been around here long (Offline PSU)

[Blu3_Balla]

Yay!!! Im Getting A slicer ASAP!!!!! Yall Better Debuff....... ;]

[Mangekyou]

On 2007-11-15 17:17, Blu3_Balla wrote:
Yay!!! Im Getting A slicer ASAP!!!!! Yall Better Debuff....... ;]



Yeah.. you WOULD want to steal XP from everybody.

[Kismet]

Because of this thread, slicers just sound SO much more awesome now. I can't WAIT to drive people insane with annoyingly quick kills that'll result in anger, kicking, or combo! Woo-hoo! Here comes the Dickhead Brigade! *Insert stereotypical yet creepy dark laugh here*

[Dragwind]

Ha, looks like I'll only be soloing with these myself.

[Jao]

how far away can you be with a slicer to hit a monster?

[Aviendha]

On 2007-11-15 17:12, Mangekyou wrote:
Reminds me of the Lavis Cannon of PSOBB... Good times...

Now remember everybody hated me for having one, it pwned everything.
But what does the slicer do? Same as PSO? I'm curious, I havn't been around here long (Offline PSU)


This is a 36% 8* slicer on a lvl 103 char with mystery class, class lvl, and PA lvl against lvl 110 Boomas.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=w8mlJaLJMZA
What it does is win.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Aviendha on 2007-11-15 18:52 ]</font>

[Rasputin]

Big numbers make me happy. At the same time, broken things make me sad. Nerf 'em soon SEGA.

[The_Montalvo]

...

[PALRAPPYS]

That's just unfair.

And Boomas only have Aprrox. 5,500 hp? That's cake to finish off. Why so low?

[KRKcl17]

Lololol.

[Agnostic187]

Thats so beautiful.

[OLDmanPS]

well its only good if your team wants to bust a run out quick to get to the next area for that reason i wont mind. but id like to hit somthing once before its dead. and Artea has a point it would take the fun outta the game, cause all the slicer is is a suped up lazer cannon and i couldnt stand people with those either.......SEGA GET IT LINE MAKE GOOD WEAPONS NOT NOOB WEAPONS

[-Tidus_415-]

On 2007-11-15 19:05, Agnostic187 wrote:
Thats bullshit.



*Fixed

[Gunslinger-08]

On 2007-11-15 18:50, Aviendha wrote:

On 2007-11-15 17:12, Mangekyou wrote:
Reminds me of the Lavis Cannon of PSOBB... Good times...

Now remember everybody hated me for having one, it pwned everything.
But what does the slicer do? Same as PSO? I'm curious, I havn't been around here long (Offline PSU)


This is a 36% 8* slicer on a lvl 103 char with mystery class, class lvl, and PA lvl against lvl 110 Boomas.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=w8mlJaLJMZA
What it does is win.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Aviendha on 2007-11-15 18:52 ]</font>


I wonder how many character will be running around using absolutely nothing but a slicer?

[XenithFlare]

Everyone should have at least one slicer PA maxed within a week. =p

[Mystil]

On 2007-11-15 16:45, Artea wrote:
In GC, they got a significant nerf, and weren't really that bad at all. The ATP was lowered on them, and they only had the range of a mechgun.

And only rangers could use them.

[Broodstar1337]

On 2007-11-15 19:51, Gunslinger-08 wrote:

On 2007-11-15 18:50, Aviendha wrote:

On 2007-11-15 17:12, Mangekyou wrote:
Reminds me of the Lavis Cannon of PSOBB... Good times...

Now remember everybody hated me for having one, it pwned everything.
But what does the slicer do? Same as PSO? I'm curious, I havn't been around here long (Offline PSU)


This is a 36% 8* slicer on a lvl 103 char with mystery class, class lvl, and PA lvl against lvl 110 Boomas.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=w8mlJaLJMZA
What it does is win.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Aviendha on 2007-11-15 18:52 ]</font>


I wonder how many character will be running around using absolutely nothing but a slicer?



Basically all the assholes, which is pretty much everybody.

[pikachief]

On 2007-11-15 22:48, Broodstar1337 wrote:

On 2007-11-15 19:51, Gunslinger-08 wrote:

On 2007-11-15 18:50, Aviendha wrote:

On 2007-11-15 17:12, Mangekyou wrote:
Reminds me of the Lavis Cannon of PSOBB... Good times...

Now remember everybody hated me for having one, it pwned everything.
But what does the slicer do? Same as PSO? I'm curious, I havn't been around here long (Offline PSU)


This is a 36% 8* slicer on a lvl 103 char with mystery class, class lvl, and PA lvl against lvl 110 Boomas.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=w8mlJaLJMZA
What it does is win.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Aviendha on 2007-11-15 18:52 ]</font>


I wonder how many character will be running around using absolutely nothing but a slicer?



Basically all the assholes, which is pretty much everybody.



so now im an asshole cuz i like the way the weapon attacks? dont judge us all by a weapon now http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif first i get called a noob for liking double sabers now im an azz for liking slicers >.>

next i'll be called stupid for liking shadoogs http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Rizen]

I guess I'm not everybody.

[Carlo210]

I'll be using them.

Tough love. They get nerfed later on anyways, so no reason to be so edgy and annoying about how OP they are.

[GuardianElite]

On 2007-11-15 22:48, Broodstar1337 wrote:

On 2007-11-15 19:51, Gunslinger-08 wrote:

On 2007-11-15 18:50, Aviendha wrote:

On 2007-11-15 17:12, Mangekyou wrote:
Reminds me of the Lavis Cannon of PSOBB... Good times...

Now remember everybody hated me for having one, it pwned everything.
But what does the slicer do? Same as PSO? I'm curious, I havn't been around here long (Offline PSU)


This is a 36% 8* slicer on a lvl 103 char with mystery class, class lvl, and PA lvl against lvl 110 Boomas.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=w8mlJaLJMZA
What it does is win.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Aviendha on 2007-11-15 18:52 ]</font>


I wonder how many character will be running around using absolutely nothing but a slicer?



Basically all the assholes, which is pretty much everybody.



heh i guess im an asshole. Well sounds fun to rare hunt with. We could of used them in 1 up lol



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: GuardianElite on 2007-11-15 23:39 ]</font>

[Miyoko]

On 2007-11-15 22:51, pikachief wrote:

so now im an asshole cuz i like the way the weapon attacks? dont judge us all by a weapon now http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif first i get called a noob for liking double sabers now im an azz for liking slicers >.>

next i'll be called stupid for liking shadoogs http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif



Maybe if you weren't such a stupid noob asshole to begin with, it wouldn't be a problem! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

PS. I'm kidding. Nobody bust a nut, now. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[pikachief]

On 2007-11-15 23:39, Miyoko wrote:

On 2007-11-15 22:51, pikachief wrote:

so now im an asshole cuz i like the way the weapon attacks? dont judge us all by a weapon now http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif first i get called a noob for liking double sabers now im an azz for liking slicers >.>

next i'll be called stupid for liking shadoogs http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif



Maybe if you weren't such a stupid noob asshole to begin with, it wouldn't be a problem! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

PS. I'm kidding. Nobody bust a nut, now. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



lol i wouldnt care even if u werent http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[XDeathX]

That machinegun glitch might as well not be fixed. Hell, the slicer would make it OBSOLETE.

[Tsavo]

ugh, I remember the days of the ver.1 spread needle. I had one on my Hucast and with it became Mr. Broken. It was cool for maybe 5 minutes. Its good to know that ST is at least looking at the past and learning from its mistakes when it comes to game balance.

We are all doomed.

[ElessarMagnus]

You are all f*cking hipocrits , as soon as something comes along that knocks you off your top killer pedestal you go crying kicking and screaming to sega to nerf it because you're not top dog anymore, melee types are supossed to deal insane amounts of damage, have high amounts of HP and be freaking tanks because we fight face to face with enemies being literally clawed to death , we don't fight mid or long range like the other types we, are damage sponges and the only way that you won't get a hit on enemies before we killed them is if you are scratching your ass at the back of the map, and who has had any problem leveling up or getting enough xp so far during this past year for you to suddenly cry foul .

[McLaughlin]

That was a long sentence.

[ElessarMagnus]

True none the less and the idea was conveyed.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ElessarMagnus on 2007-11-16 04:31 ]</font>

[DarkShadowX]

On 2007-11-16 04:12, ElessarMagnus wrote:
You are all f*cking hipocrits , as soon as something comes along that knocks you off your top killer pedestal you go crying kicking and screaming to sega to nerf it because you're not top dog anymore, melee types are supossed to deal insane amounts of damage, have high amounts of HP and be freaking tanks because we fight face to face with enemies being literally clawed to death , we don't fight mid or long range like the other types we, are damage sponges and the only way that you won't get a hit on enemies before we killed them is if you are scratching your ass at the back of the map, and who has had any problem leveling up or getting enough xp so far during this past year for you to suddenly cry foul .



I'm an upcoming Acrofighter who plans on using Slicers myself, but I have to disagree with you. Slicers needed a nerf. Yes, fighters should deal good damage, be a tank, etc. But IMO that applies to CLOSE-RANGE combat. Slicers pretty much screwed that over by allowing for a wep that has a Photon Art that can deal insane amounts of damage that hardly ever misses and could hit almost an infinite amount of enemies at LONG-RANGE. Thats pretty much unfair to everyone else that they can't kill, much less tag anything before said FF or AF w/ Slicer goes and kills everything pretty much hogging all the EXP for themselves.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DarkShadowX on 2007-11-16 04:33 ]</font>

[Mystil]

On 2007-11-16 04:12, ElessarMagnus wrote:
You are all f*cking hipocrits , as soon as something comes along that knocks you off your top killer pedestal you go crying kicking and screaming to sega to nerf it because you're not top dog anymore, melee types are supossed to deal insane amounts of damage, have high amounts of HP and be freaking tanks because we fight face to face with enemies being literally clawed to death , we don't fight mid or long range like the other types we, are damage sponges and the only way that you won't get a hit on enemies before we killed them is if you are scratching your ass at the back of the map, and who has had any problem leveling up or getting enough xp so far during this past year for you to suddenly cry foul .



Ahahahahaha...go tell that to fortetechers. Fortefighters are NOT SUPPOSED TO DO DAMAGE. We're just walking defltrides.

[amtalx]

Well, just watched a quick vid of Slicer damage...that is some BULLSHIT. 2500 damage to unlimited targets is just plain retarded. Unfortuntely, I've come to expect this from ST. Does anyone know how well the nerf addresses this?

[DarkShadowX]

On 2007-11-16 05:14, amtalx wrote:
Well, just watched a quick vid of Slicer damage...that is some BULLSHIT. 2500 damage to unlimited targets is just plain retarded. Unfortuntely, I've come to expect this from ST. Does anyone know how well the nerf addresses this?



If I recall, the nerf lowers the ATA of said PA as well as the ATP% of it too. Tho I believe the ATP% affects only the first part of the combo, which is the part that hits infinite enemies I think.

[Sir]

On 2007-11-16 04:12, ElessarMagnus wrote:
You are all f*cking hipocrits , as soon as something comes along that knocks you off your top killer pedestal you go crying kicking and screaming to sega to nerf it because you're not top dog anymore, melee types are supossed to deal insane amounts of damage, have high amounts of HP and be freaking tanks because we fight face to face with enemies being literally clawed to death , we don't fight mid or long range like the other types we, are damage sponges and the only way that you won't get a hit on enemies before we killed them is if you are scratching your ass at the back of the map, and who has had any problem leveling up or getting enough xp so far during this past year for you to suddenly cry foul .



I actually have to agree with your incredibly long sentence. A GOOD hunter isn't going to just sit there throwing the slicer if they've got some low levels with them. The slicer Kill stealers is just a new problem that were going to have to learn to kick from the party.

[Xencia]

Well,if I recall correctly,they nerfed the base stats of all slicer weapons,made it recover less pp per normal strike,made the normal PA cost more,and lowered normal PA combo 1 atp by about 80%.

[Xencia]

And personally,I hope they nerf it some more,and keep on doing it. I really don't care how strong it is,it's the weapon I've always loved,and I wouldn't hate being the only slicer user again. It really would be PSO all over again for me^_^.

[Stixx]

Well, they shouldn't nerf it too much. Just enough to make it so people would consider using other weapons.

Keep in mind that it's a one handed weapon and only has 2 combos >.>

[Nyreal]

This doesn't really apply to me. I play solo, late at night. So really, when I'm leveling my Acrofighter, it'll just be a nice way to make him really strong really fast.

[amtalx]

On 2007-11-16 05:24, DarkShadowX wrote:

On 2007-11-16 05:14, amtalx wrote:
Well, just watched a quick vid of Slicer damage...that is some BULLSHIT. 2500 damage to unlimited targets is just plain retarded. Unfortuntely, I've come to expect this from ST. Does anyone know how well the nerf addresses this?



If I recall, the nerf lowers the ATA of said PA as well as the ATP% of it too. Tho I believe the ATP% affects only the first part of the combo, which is the part that hits infinite enemies I think.



Maybe it was just the user, but it was the last hit that was dealing the most damage. I was ok with the first strike. I guess I'll have to look into it more.

EDIT: Nevermind, just took another look. All strikes are ridiculous http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif I guess I'll just have to wait and see if all other classes will remain obsolete after the nerf.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: amtalx on 2007-11-16 05:46 ]</font>

[Gen2000]

Oh noes, Fortefighters can solo any level they want now we can't have that!

But seriously Slicer needed the nerf, it's dumb and basically make any melee not using the Slicer gimped just by weapon selection. This is already sort of a problem now with Majarra in PSUv1. At least Majarra puts you into the heat of battle and there is a (small) risk that you could die. With Slicer you just stand back and watch 1k-3ks pop up without any sort of risk. Imagine 6 Fortefighters doing the same at once...yeah good game.

PSOv.1 days of Spread Needle was indeed ridiculous. I remember running around in Ruins with that and a Power Mag, being serverly underleveled for the area and owning the hell out of it when I shouldn't have been able to otherwise.

[Nyreal]

I think I'm going to abuse slicers, though... At least for a little while. I need to level and alt somehow. XD

[amtalx]

I guess the good this is ST is listening. I really wonder if they actually PLAY the games they release sometimes though... I do it for a living and the first thing I would is say "WTF? The dev needs to fix this NOW."

[Morganna]

I can accept the current nerf because they're still the One True Weapon even after that.

But there needs to always be an option of easy, convenient power for those of us who are not the leetest of the leet.

Of course, there's always those jerks that cry about any sort of convenience and call it "overpowered" and needs to be "nerfed." Because EVERYTHING has to be challenging. EVERYTHING. Nope, god forbid anything powerful ever be easy and convenient.

[Mangekyou]

On 2007-11-15 22:51, pikachief wrote:

On 2007-11-15 22:48, Broodstar1337 wrote:

On 2007-11-15 19:51, Gunslinger-08 wrote:

On 2007-11-15 18:50, Aviendha wrote:

On 2007-11-15 17:12, Mangekyou wrote:
Reminds me of the Lavis Cannon of PSOBB... Good times...

Now remember everybody hated me for having one, it pwned everything.
But what does the slicer do? Same as PSO? I'm curious, I havn't been around here long (Offline PSU)


This is a 36% 8* slicer on a lvl 103 char with mystery class, class lvl, and PA lvl against lvl 110 Boomas.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=w8mlJaLJMZA
What it does is win.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Aviendha on 2007-11-15 18:52 ]</font>


I wonder how many character will be running around using absolutely nothing but a slicer?



Basically all the assholes, which is pretty much everybody.



so now im an asshole cuz i like the way the weapon attacks? dont judge us all by a weapon now http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif first i get called a noob for liking double sabers now im an azz for liking slicers >.>

next i'll be called stupid for liking shadoogs http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif


AHAHAHAHA NOTICE HOW I STARTED ALL THAT http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mangekyou on 2007-11-16 13:57 ]</font>

[Xaeris]

Nope, god forbid anything powerful ever be easy and convenient.

Er...well, yeah, actually.

[Morganna]

On 2007-11-16 14:11, Xaeris wrote:

Nope, god forbid anything powerful ever be easy and convenient.

Er...well, yeah, actually.



Why? Do you like having to limit yourself to skilled people? I, for one, like the idea that I can shanghai anyone from my friends list who is capable of aiming a slicer, rather than having to rule out people because either they're too stupid, or because they're too skilled, powerful and important, and thus have more important things to do than to help me farm a crea double (as an example).

Nobody should have to buddy up with the elite few of the game in order to be the best.

[Kinako78]

Man, this is so not fair. I'd love to use a slicer and I'd still be considerate of lower level teammates that need exp, so why should I be punished just because I want to use one?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kinako78 on 2007-11-16 15:36 ]</font>

[Jao]

It seems ST favors Hunters

[Saner]

Slicers that do high damage is a good thing. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Saner]

if people want it nerfed then they might as well play Final Fantasy 11,

boomerangs in that game are so useless, they are only used for pulling mobs.

[Kylie]

Hm, I can't wait to try it out... probably best that they nerfed it.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kylie on 2007-11-16 15:59 ]</font>

[Miyoko]

On 2007-11-16 15:39, Jao wrote:
It seems ST favors Hunters


I'd have to agree, right now. But, their favoritism seems to bounce back and forth between Hunters and Rangers. I wouldn't be surprised to see Sega humping rangers again in the future.

Forces, however, will never get loving from Sega. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Jao]

so does the slicer pa out dmg the dus majarra?

[McLaughlin]

On 2007-11-16 15:39, Jao wrote:
It seems ST favors Hunters



I laughed.

[pikachief]

On 2007-11-16 16:03, Jao wrote:
so does the slicer pa out dmg the dus majarra?



u can do 2000's to multiple enemies at one from a distance XD

[Xaeris]

On 2007-11-16 15:11, Morganna wrote:

On 2007-11-16 14:11, Xaeris wrote:

Nope, god forbid anything powerful ever be easy and convenient.

Er...well, yeah, actually.



Why? Do you like having to limit yourself to skilled people? I, for one, like the idea that I can shanghai anyone from my friends list who is capable of aiming a slicer, rather than having to rule out people because either they're too stupid, or because they're too skilled, powerful and important, and thus have more important things to do than to help me farm a crea double (as an example).

Nobody should have to buddy up with the elite few of the game in order to be the best.



I don't limit myself to the company of skilled people. I limit myself to the company of competent people, and I don't mind doing so one bit. I simply dislike any existence of an I-win button that spares people the sheer and utter horror of actually playing the game.

And, no offense, but your last statement is...questionable. If your goal is in fact to be the best in a team based game, then, yeah you're gonna need some friends that are up there in the ranks. There's no way around that in this game, or any other. I mean, do you think my university basketball intramural team should be able to beat the '92 Bulls because you shouldn't need the best team to be the best?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Xaeris on 2007-11-16 18:20 ]</font>

[halcyonstar]

Might as well remove every other class from the game. In all honesty my friend Inazuma put it best to me: It takes him 27 mins to complete a mission solo as a FT where as it takes a AcroFighter 9 mins. Thats just way too broken.

[Xaeris]

Edit: I goofed.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Xaeris on 2007-11-16 18:19 ]</font>

[-Tidus_415-]

If slicers start getting out of hand in my parties (to a point where I cant even hit anything) then you're getting the boot. No exceptions.

[pikachief]

On 2007-11-16 18:17, -Tidus_415- wrote:
If slicers start getting out of hand in my parties (to a point where I cant even hit anything) then you're getting the boot. No exceptions.



so if im using my favorite weapon and i jsut happen to be killing everything, i'll be booted for liking my weapon? well that sux good things i usally just play with friends >.>

[amtalx]

On 2007-11-16 17:23, Obsidian_Knight wrote:

On 2007-11-16 15:39, Jao wrote:
It seems ST favors Hunters



I laughed.



I laughed at you laughing.

[-Tidus_415-]

Theres 2 Slicer PA's. Use the PA Frag one and then its no problem. But if you wanna be a douche and use the store brought PA then thats fucked up. Nobody better even use the "But im leveling it up" Excuse because as overpowered as that shit is you can level it up solo.

[Morganna]

I'm a firm believer in Slicer Supremacy.

[Jao]

I read the psu website and it seems they want the slicer to stay that way.

It said:Chikki Kyoren-jin will be available from the Skill Photon Art vendors. This Photon Art has an amazing damage potential, ripping through any enemies that stand in your path

[Agnostic187]

On 2007-11-16 18:22, -Tidus_415- wrote:
Theres 2 Slicer PA's. Use the PA Frag one and then its no problem. But if you wanna be a douche and use the store brought PA then thats fucked up. Nobody better even use the "But im leveling it up" Excuse because as overpowered as that shit is you can level it up solo.



So its fucked up that they want to use the PA they want that does good damage? Does it make you feel weak not being able to deal damage, as you watch somebody else vastly overpower you?

[Jao]

Guys dont for get that there might be some type of force spell or gun pa that might just blow away the slicer pa in the future=/

[bahk]

On 2007-11-16 21:24, Agnostic187 wrote:

On 2007-11-16 18:22, -Tidus_415- wrote:
Theres 2 Slicer PA's. Use the PA Frag one and then its no problem. But if you wanna be a douche and use the store brought PA then thats fucked up. Nobody better even use the "But im leveling it up" Excuse because as overpowered as that shit is you can level it up solo.



So its fucked up that they want to use the PA they want that does good damage? Does it make you feel weak not being able to deal damage, as you watch somebody else vastly overpower you?



I think it's more of a problem with nobody being able to hit anything unless they use slicers. Is it wrong to want to be able to play without being forced to use one?

[Reipard]

So its fucked up that they want to use the PA they want that does good damage? Does it make you feel weak not being able to deal damage, as you watch somebody else vastly overpower you?

The more you post the more I wonder if you really have any idea at all what you're talking about.

[-Tidus_415-]

On 2007-11-16 21:24, Agnostic187 wrote:

On 2007-11-16 18:22, -Tidus_415- wrote:
Theres 2 Slicer PA's. Use the PA Frag one and then its no problem. But if you wanna be a douche and use the store brought PA then thats fucked up. Nobody better even use the "But im leveling it up" Excuse because as overpowered as that shit is you can level it up solo.



So its fucked up that they want to use the PA they want that does good damage? Does it make you feel weak not being able to deal damage, as you watch somebody else vastly overpower you?



I did not mention ANYWHERE about being outdamaged. I CLEARLY said it's a problem only because you wont be able to hit anything. By the time you do then you'll most likely have only tagged 1 enemy out of like 5...? Now imagine 2-3 slicers. Might as well afk the whole run and let them clear the whole damn mission. You damn sure arent touching shit unless you got a slicer and if you do get one then it's just a race to who can hit everything 1st.

[pikachief]

On 2007-11-16 23:29, -Tidus_415- wrote:

On 2007-11-16 21:24, Agnostic187 wrote:

On 2007-11-16 18:22, -Tidus_415- wrote:
Theres 2 Slicer PA's. Use the PA Frag one and then its no problem. But if you wanna be a douche and use the store brought PA then thats fucked up. Nobody better even use the "But im leveling it up" Excuse because as overpowered as that shit is you can level it up solo.



So its fucked up that they want to use the PA they want that does good damage? Does it make you feel weak not being able to deal damage, as you watch somebody else vastly overpower you?



I did not mention ANYWHERE about being outdamaged. I CLEARLY said it's a problem only because you wont be able to hit anything. By the time you do then you'll most likely have only tagged 1 enemy out of like 5...? Now imagine 2-3 slicers. Might as well afk the whole run and let them clear the whole damn mission. You damn sure arent touching shit unless you got a slicer and if you do get one then it's just a race to who can hit everything 1st.



i would use the PA even if it had 1% atp. i just think its fun. the PA frag one i dont think is fun.

so im using it for the purpose of having funn not for killing. will u still boot me? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[-Tidus_415-]

Well if its for fun and you're not abusing it to kill everything then yeah its ok.

[Nyreal]

Just solo if you're that powerful.

It's not like the whining will be worth it... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Nai_Calus]

People don't like Chikki because it's fucking OBNOXIOUS.

I own one slicer. I use it for n00bing up C runs to hunt Resist units. I will not use it in parties.

And after tonight, I will ban the fucking thing from all future open parties I make. I didn't realise as a Fighgunner, with my crossbows that shoot quickly and hit three enemies at once, just how truly obnoxious that thing was. Tonight, however, I went out as an AT since I was in a support mood. Wound up in a party full of Chikki spammers.

Twin Handguns should not have to be an AT's primary fucking weapon.

After three runs in which I was able to tag approximately 1/5th of the enemies, I left, went back to FI, and went and joined a party with a slicer ban, and had a fabulous time for the rest of the evening without having to deal with the bullshit 'oh fuck gotta tag it before it dieeeeeees' crap you get from a party full of Chikki users.

There is no justification for that thrice-damned PA. It needs to be about half as powerful as it is now, which would lower it to the point of being useful, but not being so assholish that, yep, half the freaking server bans it from their parties.

Fuck. Chikki.

[Blu3_Balla]

Im glad I run w/ a group so i dont have 2 worry about ppl whining about wat i use 2 kill...We'll use our slicers and clear runs faster, get more rare [B]'s, and earn more $, while yall play nice and make sure everyone n the party hits everything, cuz people would rather slowly beat runs 2 lvl right?

[Sekani]

On 2007-11-16 13:43, Morganna wrote:

Of course, there's always those jerks that cry about any sort of convenience and call it "overpowered" and needs to be "nerfed." Because EVERYTHING has to be challenging. EVERYTHING. Nope, god forbid anything powerful ever be easy and convenient.


Easy and convenient is boring. Besides, this game is easy enough to where it takes almost no effort to not be a total failure, so there's really no excuse.


On 2007-11-16 18:19, pikachief wrote:

so if im using my favorite weapon and i jsut happen to be killing everything, i'll be booted for liking my weapon? well that sux good things i usally just play with friends >.>


We'll see how long they stay your friends when they can't tag any enemies because you're wiping them all out before they're done spawning. *Boot*

[Kismet]

On 2007-11-17 07:31, Ian-KunX wrote:
People don't like Chikki because it's fucking OBNOXIOUS.

I own one slicer. I use it for n00bing up C runs to hunt Resist units. I will not use it in parties.

And after tonight, I will ban the fucking thing from all future open parties I make. I didn't realise as a Fighgunner, with my crossbows that shoot quickly and hit three enemies at once, just how truly obnoxious that thing was. Tonight, however, I went out as an AT since I was in a support mood. Wound up in a party full of Chikki spammers.

Twin Handguns should not have to be an AT's primary fucking weapon.

After three runs in which I was able to tag approximately 1/5th of the enemies, I left, went back to FI, and went and joined a party with a slicer ban, and had a fabulous time for the rest of the evening without having to deal with the bullshit 'oh fuck gotta tag it before it dieeeeeees' crap you get from a party full of Chikki users.

There is no justification for that thrice-damned PA. It needs to be about half as powerful as it is now, which would lower it to the point of being useful, but not being so assholish that, yep, half the freaking server bans it from their parties.

Fuck. Chikki.



*Counts how many times you said fuck(ing) and giggles*

Just kidding.

I think that's a good idea, though. If you don't want people spoiling the even-nes of the EXP gain, then ban slicer use in the party. =3

Then again... maybe all those who don't like it should just learn to kill faster? I mean, I know it's the fact that they're doing it that makes it wrong because it's obnoxious, but one has to learn to hold one's own, y'know?

[-Rune-]

Alright, time for my two cents. Personally I always loved slicers in the past, you coul use them or almost every situation *especially in mines *drool**

Anywho, I dont agree tht everyonoe should be labeled an asshole for using one in a party. I also think alot of people are contradict themselves in this subject. If you take a look at our trading boards more time than not you'll see people trading to get something stronger, or as strong as they can get with uber %'s like 40+.

So what's the difference of having another strong weapon? Stop looking at the negatives of the weapon anyway, when we get more missions and event set up like 1up wouldn't you want people having a neutralizer to some of the crazy time challenges that ST can produce?

Just sounds silly that people are complaining something's too strong, should we nerf axes now as well because of just attack? o_O;;

[Sekani]

On 2007-11-17 08:32, -Rune- wrote:
Just sounds silly that people are complaining something's too strong, should we nerf axes now as well because of just attack? o_O;;


Actually Just Attack should be toned down quite a bit in my opinion, but that's another topic.

[Kinako78]

On 2007-11-16 18:22, -Tidus_415- wrote:
Theres 2 Slicer PA's. Use the PA Frag one and then its no problem. But if you wanna be a douche and use the store brought PA then thats fucked up. Nobody better even use the "But im leveling it up" Excuse because as overpowered as that shit is you can level it up solo.



What about the "I'm still saving up for the PA Frag one." excuse? Did you ever think of that?

Edit: And I can't speak for everyone else, but I already said that I'd be considerate of my teammates, even when using a slicer.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kinako78 on 2007-11-17 09:13 ]</font>

[SirenV]

If its damage is confirmed to be adjusted in the Japanese version, then we will receive it too, so why waste all this energy nonsensically debating?

[AlphaDragoon]

Slicers, especially Chikki, NEED a nerf. That's pretty much indisputable. It's one thing to be able to do massive damage...but it's another entirely to be able to CLEAR A ROOM BEFORE ANYONE ELSE CAN GET A HIT, unless that person is also using said cheesy PA.

That's worse than Majarra. MUCH worse.

[Kinako78]

You're right. I'm sorry, Siren. I just get sick of the negative attitude some players give about certain things in this game. I'm already concerned about possibly being booted out of a party just cause I'm not perfect at using JA.

[RemiusTA]

Slicers were made my hackers and kept in the final game.

Thats basically what its like.

[Xencia]

I wouldn't mind even not using a PA at all,except for the fact that the female animation is so bad for it. I've loved slicers in every Phantasy Star game that's had them,and even though it's a bit different in each iteration,I've kept loving them.

I will be be getting and using both PAs for it,just may only be using the store PA on high hp things that you don't wanna get close to,Kogs and such. I'll be using the frag PA for my normal use one,and if that's still too strong,I'll just alternate a normal Just strike combo for pp regen,with an un-Justed frag PA combo.

Really it's quite annoying,I've loved them for too long to give them up. Wish they'd just nerf it to a slightly underpowered state and move on,a "Ranged Melee" weapon SHOULD be underpowered.

[Kinako78]

That's really how I feel about Slicers, Xencia. I've loved them since PS4 and I was excited about them returning in AoI and I don't want to give them up just cause of some naysayers. But yeah, Slicers were never meant to be a super powerful weapon, so its attack power should be lowered a bit.

[Morganna]

sigh...

Is it to the point where in an online game, we get anything REALLY good and now we'll have to have it in the back of our head that "Maybe the makers were too stupid to balance their own game so then they'll rob us of what they have given?" That's what some of you people seem to be hoping for.

As for slicer bans, I think it would be better to require slicer wielders to stand away and let the other members tag first and THEN unleash on the enemy, just like one might do while helping lowbies level. It would be overall faster that way, wouldn't it?

[Turambar]

As it stands, Slicer damage is over powered and needs a reduction in it's effectiveness. You really can't argue against that. (Without making a very dumb argument at any rate)

With that said, yes, ideally it would be best if people don't over react and boot anyone that uses the PA. As well as people who use that PA be considerate of the rest of the party. But we all know about ideals in regards to people and online games....



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Turambar on 2007-11-17 11:13 ]</font>

[Kinako78]

That's what I'd rather do, but since almost everyone else wants to whine about it, I guess I'll have to settle for a compromise that pleases them.

[Jao]

is the slicer overpowered or is it the pa that is overpowered?

[pikachief]

On 2007-11-17 11:14, Jao wrote:
is the slicer overpowered or is it the pa that is overpowered?



its just the PA >.>

[stukasa]

On 2007-11-16 15:36, Kinako78 wrote:
Man, this is so not fair. I'd love to use a slicer and I'd still be considerate of lower level teammates that need exp, so why should I be punished just because I want to use one?
I know how you feel, Kinako. I was really looking forward to using slicers too, but I also want to be considerate to my teammates. I hope the nerf reduces slicers to an acceptable level. Until then, all good things in moderation! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[pikachief]

On 2007-11-17 11:22, stukasa wrote:

On 2007-11-16 15:36, Kinako78 wrote:
Man, this is so not fair. I'd love to use a slicer and I'd still be considerate of lower level teammates that need exp, so why should I be punished just because I want to use one?
I know how you feel, Kinako. I was really looking forward to using slicers too, but I also want to be considerate to my teammates. I hope the nerf reduces slicers to an acceptable level. Until then, all good things in moderation! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



it still feels really strong, since i can kill any enemy i've faced so far with a full JA'ed combo :/ (sometimes 2)

but its not completely overpowered now, still really strong but now ZOMGWTFLOLBBQ strong >.>

[MrNomad]

They should've just made it a ranger's weapon with elemental pas if you ask me http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif But seriously, It needs to be nerfed. I dont care what crap you think about it, it needs a nerf. "But Nomad! We wanna do big numbarz! Its not fair for ST to..." I dont care, you have the JA system you morons! All they need to do is nerf the fucking weapon's ATA and ATP by a good amount, and thats it. So what if you like the damn weapon? There's no excuse as to why it should be this godly overpowered weapon that even a caveman can use and be unbeatable. having a 6 person party makes the game easy enough, lets not have them spamming the n00b weapon and make the game any less entertaining. "But its entertaining to me.." Well its not entertaining to everyone else, which makes you the minority, which means your opinion doesnt count! (hence, why ST is nerfing the weapon) http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[amtalx]

On 2007-11-17 11:24, pikachief wrote:
it still feels really strong, since i can kill any enemy i've faced so far with a full JA'ed combo :/ (sometimes 2)


I'm glad ST dropped the ball...again.

[Nai_Calus]

On 2007-11-17 08:04, Kismet wrote:

Then again... maybe all those who don't like it should just learn to kill faster? I mean, I know it's the fact that they're doing it that makes it wrong because it's obnoxious, but one has to learn to hold one's own, y'know?



You really have no idea, do you? There's no 'kill faster', Chikki is the fucking hacked DC Spread Needle of PSU. I had to resort to using nothing but my Evil Twins in order to tag anything, as it was the only weapon I had with enough range and speed to be able to tag anything.

Made the mistake of stopping to renew buffs? Whoops, it all died. Made the mistake of not being in the room three seconds before the entire rest of the party? Whoops, it all died. *Was* in the room before everyone else? Yay, I tagged two enemies out of seven before it ALL FUCKING DIED.

There was one other person in the party who originally wasn't using Chikki, he was actually strategically using PAs that weren't fucking Chikki. For the first half of the first block, anyway. At which point he gave up and pulled out a slicer because, wow, people in level up parties want exp.

Slicers are ranged weapons. Chikki has a retardedly long range, apparently has no target limit, and a retarded ATP modifier that the so-called 'nerf' they're planning on it won't fucking help with. Yeah, great, 80% ATP mod down off the first combo. It's still gonna be 280% modifier for the first part, and the second is still gonna be 400%. Words cannot express how much that does not help. There's no 'killing faster' when everything in a room dies before you can even get within range.

Oh hey, on the bright side at least it didn't fucking matter that the Force wasn't Forcing! Hooray I don't need Resta! Oh wait, what the fucking hell am I a FO here for then?

Yeah. No. Fuck that shit.

[amtalx]

Yea, the nerf was only for the first hit...which is the only hit you can't JA. The rest of the hits are completely untouched. Y'know, the ones that deal shitloads of damage and keep their 1.5x modifier. If they don't nerf it again, and actually nerf it this time, I'm flying to Japan to kick every member of ST in the junk repeatedly until they do. I hope they are catching as much shit from JP players, since they don't really listen to us.

[Mystil]

On 2007-11-17 17:56, Ian-KunX wrote:
<snip>


And this guy players in the JP servers..

Things do not look well for us on the western side.

Oh well, it was a good run as a fortefighter in parties. I might be doing a lot of soloing >_>..

[Morganna]

On 2007-11-17 13:17, MrNomad wrote:
They should've just made it a ranger's weapon with elemental pas if you ask me http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif But seriously, It needs to be nerfed. I dont care what crap you think about it, it needs a nerf. "But Nomad! We wanna do big numbarz! Its not fair for ST to..." I dont care, you have the JA system you morons! All they need to do is nerf the fucking weapon's ATA and ATP by a good amount, and thats it. So what if you like the damn weapon? There's no excuse as to why it should be this godly overpowered weapon that even a caveman can use and be unbeatable. having a 6 person party makes the game easy enough, lets not have them spamming the n00b weapon and make the game any less entertaining. "But its entertaining to me.." Well its not entertaining to everyone else, which makes you the minority, which means your opinion doesnt count! (hence, why ST is nerfing the weapon) http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



Right is right, even if only the minority believes it. Wrong is wrong, even if the majority believes it. One is entitled to their opinion, though Sega was not wrong to give us a means of easy, convenient power.

I can accept nerfs, as long as it remains the clearly best weapon. Otherwise Sega will be appeasing the skill elitists who want to force everyone to use inferior weapons, and sneer maliciously at those who go for the best gear.

[MrNomad]

On 2007-11-17 21:30, Morganna wrote:

On 2007-11-17 13:17, MrNomad wrote:
They should've just made it a ranger's weapon with elemental pas if you ask me http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif But seriously, It needs to be nerfed. I dont care what crap you think about it, it needs a nerf. "But Nomad! We wanna do big numbarz! Its not fair for ST to..." I dont care, you have the JA system you morons! All they need to do is nerf the fucking weapon's ATA and ATP by a good amount, and thats it. So what if you like the damn weapon? There's no excuse as to why it should be this godly overpowered weapon that even a caveman can use and be unbeatable. having a 6 person party makes the game easy enough, lets not have them spamming the n00b weapon and make the game any less entertaining. "But its entertaining to me.." Well its not entertaining to everyone else, which makes you the minority, which means your opinion doesnt count! (hence, why ST is nerfing the weapon) http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



Right is right, even if only the minority believes it. Wrong is wrong, even if the majority believes it. One is entitled to their opinion, though Sega was not wrong to give us a means of easy, convenient power.

I can accept nerfs, as long as it remains the clearly best weapon. Otherwise Sega will be appeasing the skill elitists who want to force everyone to use inferior weapons, and sneer maliciously at those who go for the best gear.

Yes, because we shouldn't balance out an overpowered weapon and make it so a player can use any other weapon and be as good http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Morganna]

Is this to imply that Sega made a mistake, that it was incapable of testing the Slicer for itself BEFORE setting it in stone?

Also, the original argument was more along the lines of thinking it's bad for noobs to have any sort of meaningful power, which I believe hearkens back to the days of that game with the AWP. The "let the other people have a chance" one is a valid counter to Slicer Supremacy. The "ZOMG be inferior like the rest of us because only skill should matter, and the only way to test skill is to be chained to inferior weaponry" one is not.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Morganna on 2007-11-17 22:51 ]</font>

[amtalx]

On 2007-11-17 22:49, Morganna wrote:
Is this to imply that Sega made a mistake, that it was incapable of testing the Slicer for itself BEFORE setting it in stone?



EXACTLY. I do that kind of work for a living. I've worked with a number of developers (Konami, Namco, SquareEnix, etc.) and none of them would let that kind of shit get past the first QA cycle. ST sucks at testing. Period.



Also, the original argument was more along the lines of thinking it's bad for noobs to have any sort of meaningful power, which I believe hearkens back to the days of that game with the AWP. The "let the other people have a chance" one is a valid counter to Slicer Supremacy. The "ZOMG be inferior like the rest of us because only skill should matter, and the only way to test skill is to be chained to inferior weaponry" one is not.


So basically we need an overpowered weapon so the people that suck can appear not to suck so much? This weapon only punishes the talented players who can actually use a variety of weapons in a creative and effective manner. Also, keep in mind that a game like Counterstrike is a competitive game whereas PSU is cooperative ONLY. You're focus should be to contribute to the team. You are not being a team player by raping every enemy before others can land a hit.

[Morganna]

So basically, I cannot take a game company's moves at face value, that I have to second guess everything good, because, according to some, they don't know how to make their own game.

Also, I do not want to be able to "rape mobs before others can defeat them." I have said before that I can accept nerfs as long as slicers are still the wholly superior choice.

Why do I feel this way? Because I do not want to live in a world where my worth as a human being is determined by whether I'm "talented" or if I "suck." All human beings are of the highest worth, even if they do not appear to be contributing to society. God forbid a person's loved ones do not live up to such standards...would one mistreat them by speaking in an uncivil tone for "sucking?"

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Morganna on 2007-11-18 10:25 ]</font>

[Sekani]

On 2007-11-18 10:21, Morganna wrote:
Why do I feel this way? Because I do not want to live in a world where my worth as a human being is determined by whether I'm "talented" or if I "suck." All human beings are of the highest worth, even if they do not appear to be contributing to society. God forbid a person's loved ones do not live up to such standards...would one mistreat them by speaking in an uncivil tone for "sucking?"

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Morganna on 2007-11-18 10:25 ]</font>

What the fuck does this have to do with anything being discussed here?

On an aside, your whole "ONE TRUE WEAPON" crusade is by far the most inane, ridiculous, and just flat out stupid thing I have seen on these forums in quite some time. A noob with a slicer is still a noob, no amount of nerfing or un-nerfing will ever change that. Have fun soloing for the rest of your PSU existence.

[McLaughlin]

On 2007-11-18 10:21, Morganna wrote:
Why do I feel this way? Because I do not want to live in a world where my worth as a human being is determined by whether I'm "talented" or if I "suck." All human beings are of the highest worth, even if they do not appear to be contributing to society. God forbid a person's loved ones do not live up to such standards...would one mistreat them by speaking in an uncivil tone for "sucking?"

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Morganna on 2007-11-18 10:25 ]</font>


That's a completely redundant tangent.

Why should the Slicer be the only weapon anyone uses? That's just as idiotic. In a game built on variety, you want a singular weapon to reign supreme over all else? That's just stupid. Have fun Slicer-ing by yourself, because you'll be booted from every other party.

[Reipard]

Morganna, I thought you had a lot more common sense than you are displaying in this thread.

This is an online action RPG with a heavy emphasis on variety. When you take the skills and reflexes out of the equation and let one weapon completely overshadow the others regardless of wielder, it destroys the variety in the game without question. There is absolutely no benefit whatsoever to there being a 'best' weapon type. It is not in the best interest of players, nor the game itself. All it does is make the people who chose the 'inferior'weapon types suffer the same sort of stigma you're claiming people would suffer for 'sucking'.

[Morganna]

I do have common sense.

What I don't have is patience for the whole "lol sega's gonna take away your fun weapon because they don't know how to program their own game, IN YOUR FACE NOOBS" gloating like MrNomad displayed.

Moreover, I have no patience for the "achievement is everything" mentality, where the world is divided into those who are skilled, and those who are unskilled, with the skilled ones mistreating the unskilled by thinking less of them. If you high and mighty "skilled" types did not boast of yourselves and scorn the "mediocre," I might have more sympathy for the idea that Sega is wrong about slicers.

In my defense, I plan to start and level up a female newman fortetecher, even if she turns out to be wholly worthless in comparison to hunters. Why? Style. Look at my sig. That said, my main is going acrofighter and will be all LOL SLICERS to help fund my alts.

As for my abilities...well, it's hard to say. I can put out some good damage with crimson + crimson line + level 17 rising strike. Given that I more or less leeched off of higher level players almost the entire way to 64, I will not delude myself into thinking I'm anything great. Though I do my best not to be carried anymore...I'm level 64 now, after all.

[Sekani]

On 2007-11-18 12:57, Morganna wrote:
Moreover, I have no patience for the "achievement is everything" mentality, where the world is divided into those who are skilled, and those who are unskilled, with the skilled ones mistreating the unskilled by thinking less of them. If you high and mighty "skilled" types did not boast of yourselves and scorn the "mediocre," I might have more sympathy for the idea that Sega is wrong about slicers.

Solution: stop being mediocre. What you call "skill" is not some innate ability that only a select few beings are allowed to possess; it's attainable by all who wish to attain it. I have no sympathy for those who choose to remain "mediocre" out of sheer laziness. They deserve to be trounced by those with the drive to improve themselves. This applies to both the game and to whatever pointless real-world example you're trying to apply here.

Just cut the bullshit already; we all know you're just some pathetic noob who's frothing at the mouth at the chance to outdamage everyone else in the game with your "ONE TRUE WEAPON" despite the time they've put in to earn their status, and you're trying to cover up your selfishness with this ridiculous moral crap you're so fond of spitting out. You don't get something for nothing, kid. Deal with it.

[Reipard]

I do have common sense.

Then please show some :.


What I don't have is patience for the whole "lol sega's gonna take away your fun weapon because they don't know how to program their own game, IN YOUR FACE NOOBS" gloating like MrNomad displayed.

Moreover, I have no patience for the "achievement is everything" mentality, where the world is divided into those who are skilled, and those who are unskilled, with the skilled ones mistreating the unskilled by thinking less of them. If you high and mighty "skilled" types did not boast of yourselves and scorn the "mediocre," I might have more sympathy for the idea that Sega is wrong about slicers.

Skill is going to come into play as a factor of how you are in an online action RPG dependant on reflexes and quick thinking. Whether you like it or not, skill will determine who is and is not good at the game to a degree. This game, however, is not Monster Hunter. Stats do tend to throw more weight into how well somebody fares.

You seem to think there is some sort of cultural gap or something between 'skilled' and 'unskilled' but that is honestly one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. It is not some helpless condition to suck at PSU- there is nothing stopping people from getting better at the game.

'Skill' has nothing to do with the kind of character you're playing and what you use. It shouldn't. A skilled player can use a Newman Fortefighter w/ a pair of Knuckles and be just fine and dandy. A skilled player can work around Protranser's low stats and perform admirably in a party whether they're using an axe or a grenade launcher.

You are what you use and more importantly, how you use it. That is the kind of variety that keeps PSU afloat; the kind of variety where anyone can use anything and still be just fine as long as they're willing to let their skill make up for any racial, class, weapon or PA drawbacks. And that's even more extreme than PSU takes it, considering the game is very balanced enough to allow any level of skill to do just fine.

Having any one weapon become the superior weapon completely defeats that purpose. It pools all of the focus onto that one weapon and creates a negative and unfair stigma against anyone that dares to choose their own playstyle. I don't care why or how the Slicer PA got overpowered nor do I care that it ever was in the first place. If it needs fixing lest it ruins the balance of the game, then it needs fixing.

[Morganna]

You are quite right in saying that all people can be skilled.

But it is unneccesary to feel contempt and superiority towards those who are mediocre, whether intentionally or not. And it is uncharitable of you to assume that I am intentionally mediocre, when you have not even seen me play. I make no judgements about your skill, do not judge mine.

Truth be told, I can live without the slicer. If Sega took it away tommorow, I would be slightly disappointed, but life would still go on.

While one of the reasons I spoke of maintaining slicer supremacy is because I am tired of attitudes like yours, the other reason is a bit more understandable:

It seems that in every endeavor I have taken, there has always been some flaw, some deception on the part of those who are in charge of whatever it is. In this case, if you people are right, I am not able to take Sega's actions at face value, because they could be "wrong" about what they put in the game. That seems a bit odd to me, seeing as it is their own game and they can come to the conclusion themself about the slicer, but if you're right, I will never be able to trust Sega again. And that is a bad feeling.

Also, why did you ignore what I said about the fonewearl? Does that sound like a hardcore Slicer-only position to you?

[Sekani]

On 2007-11-18 13:32, Morganna wrote:
You are quite right in saying that all people can be skilled.

But it is unneccesary to feel contempt and superiority towards those who are mediocre, whether intentionally or not.
WHY? What about mediocrity is there to be respected or rewarded?


It seems that in every endeavor I have taken, there has always been some flaw, some deception on the part of those who are in charge of whatever it is. In this case, if you people are right, I am not able to take Sega's actions at face value, because they could be "wrong" about what they put in the game. That seems a bit odd to me, seeing as it is their own game and they can come to the conclusion themself about the slicer, but if you're right, I will never be able to trust Sega again. And that is a bad feeling.
Playtest error. Mistakes happen on updates for online games, and quite frequently. I can't recall any game that hasn't had some kind of very controversial patch or update that was eventually corrected later. What this has to do with your faith in humanity I'll never know.



Also, why did you ignore what I said about the fonewearl? Does that sound like a hardcore Slicer-only position to you?


*shrug*

[Reipard]

But it is unneccesary to feel contempt and superiority towards those who are mediocre, whether intentionally or not. And it is uncharitable of you to assume that I am intentionally mediocre, when you have not even seen me play. I make no judgements about your skill, do not judge mine.

I make no judgements about your skill. Everything we know about your skill is the judgement you have put forth on the forum about your own skill this day. If you say you are mediocre and I have not seen otherwise, then I have no choice but to believe you.



Truth be told, I can live without the slicer. If Sega took it away tommorow, I would be slightly disappointed, but life would still go on.

Nobody is advocating taking the Slicer away for any reason.


While one of the reasons I spoke of maintaining slicer supremacy is because I am tired of attitudes like yours, the other reason is a bit more understandable:

It seems that in every endeavor I have taken, there has always been some flaw, some deception on the part of those who are in charge of whatever it is. In this case, if you people are right, I am not able to take Sega's actions at face value, because they could be "wrong" about what they put in the game. That seems a bit odd to me, seeing as it is their own game and they can come to the conclusion themself about the slicer, but if you're right, I will never be able to trust Sega again. And that is a bad feeling.

For one, this is an argument about the reduction of effectiveness of a particular weapon skill that turned out to be more powerful than Sega had anticipated. Your insistance on jumping onto a morality soapbox in your every post in an argument such a this is why I keep asking you to display some common sense.


Also, why did you ignore what I said about the fonewearl? Does that sound like a hardcore Slicer-only position to you?

You can use your Slicer FOney all you want- but the PA still needs to be nerfed to hell http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif. It may not be nerfed on these shores for a while, so feel free to take advantage of it. Just be conscious that the other people in your party might want exp too and it should be all good.

[Morganna]

The skill judgement thing was directed to Sekani. You seem basically sane, but he seems to be all about thumping his chest about how uber he is and how mediocre people are subhuman.

In any case, Sekani...I never said that mediocrity should be rewarded. But, neither should skill. If you want a reward just for being skilled, then you are shamefully indulging in boasting.

Moreover, about mediocrity, all I am saying is that you need to ditch the damn attitude and acknowledge that they are of the same human worth as you, which means DO NOT SPEAK ILL OF THEM. To speak ill of another is to treat them as subhuman, and to treat another as subhuman is the same evil that led to slavery.

[Nyreal]

On 2007-11-18 10:21, Morganna wrote:
Why do I feel this way? Because I do not want to live in a world where my worth as a human being is determined by whether I'm "talented" or if I "suck." All human beings are of the highest worth, even if they do not appear to be contributing to society. God forbid a person's loved ones do not live up to such standards...would one mistreat them by speaking in an uncivil tone for "sucking?"

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Morganna on 2007-11-18 10:25 ]</font>


People are not created equal, and your worth as a human is determined by whether or not you have talent and skills or not. If you aren't talented and you have no skills, you will be considered as a worthless human being.

Sorry for injecting some reality into your idealism.

[Morganna]

On 2007-11-18 13:54, Nyreal wrote:

People are not created equal, and your worth as a human is determined by whether or not you have talent and skills or not. If you aren't talented and you have no skills, you will be considered as a worthless human being.

Sorry for injecting some reality into your idealism.



In other words, you love slavery, oppression, and tyranny, and you hate freedom, peace, and human dignity.

[McLaughlin]

On 2007-11-18 13:54, Morganna wrote:
The skill judgement thing was directed to Sekani. You seem basically sane, but he seems to be all about thumping his chest about how uber he is and how mediocre people are subhuman.

In any case, Sekani...I never said that mediocrity should be rewarded. But, neither should skill. If you want a reward just for being skilled, then you are shamefully indulging in boasting.

Moreover, about mediocrity, all I am saying is that you need to ditch the damn attitude and acknowledge that they are of the same human worth as you, which means DO NOT SPEAK ILL OF THEM. To speak ill of another is to treat them as subhuman, and to treat another as subhuman is the same evil that led to slavery.



Why the hell should someone who half-asses their way through life be treated the same as someone who busts their balls and strives to succeed? Anyone who has any skill has worked hard to earn it, and they should be acknowledged as such.

And personally, how I judge someone's skill in an ORPG does not reflect my opinions of them in real life. My friends suck at Halo, but they're great people regardless. To assume that I think of someone as less than myself because they are lacking skill in a video game is insulting to myself and my friends. Furthermore, should they happen to work at whatever it is they aren't excelling at, and they DO improve, then they will have earned my respect in that regard. Because they WORKED for it, like I did.

Stop the baseless insinuations, because I can assure you I have more character than you give me credit for.

EDIT: And also, when you told me to check out your sig, I did. Signatures cannot exceed 5 lines. Your signature is 6 lines, not including the image.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Obsidian_Knight on 2007-11-18 14:24 ]</font>

[Nyreal]

On 2007-11-18 13:56, Morganna wrote:
[quote

In other words, you love slavery, oppression, and tyranny, and you hate freedom, peace, and human dignity.



It's considered bad argumentation to place words in your opponent's mouth, my friend.

And no, I really don't need to acknowledge that people are equal to me simply because they're human. It's what you do with your humanity that gives you worth and purpose. Simply believing that existence earns you the right to be considered useful is foolish, at best. And I don't believe that I deserve fair treatment either if I cannot do anything with my life.

But anyway, on topic, this game is very easy. It's not too difficult to keep up with a Fortefighter and simply tag everything that you see. The Nos-technics are useful for this, as would strafing with Twin Handguns or a Mechgun for a Ranger.

[Morganna]

On 2007-11-18 14:23, Obsidian_Knight wrote:

Why the hell should someone who half-asses their way through life be treated the same as someone who busts their balls and strives to succeed? Anyone who has any skill has worked hard to earn it, and they should be acknowledged as such.

And personally, how I judge someone's skill in an ORPG does not reflect my opinions of them in real life. My friends suck at Halo, but they're great people regardless. To assume that I think of someone as less than myself because they are lacking skill in a video game is insulting to myself and my friends. Furthermore, should they happen to work at whatever it is they aren't excelling at, and they DO improve, then they will have earned my respect in that regard. Because they WORKED for it, like I did.

Stop the baseless insinuations, because I can assure you I have more character than you give me credit for.

EDIT: And also, when you told me to check out your sig, I did. Signatures cannot exceed 5 lines. Your signature is 6 lines, not including the image.



Actually, I approve of this post. You actually explain yourself fully rather than the rah rah chest thumping from before, from another poster.

In any case, my plan for the next couple of days is to solo and level up better skills. Why? Because if I group, I'll inevitably end up relying on the other people to do the lions share of the work. And the other skill is one that doesn't toss the enemy in the air. I also plan to actually use Atgaride.

Sure, I'm not uber, but I certainly don't intend to stay mediocre like I have been. But the most important thing is, it was my decision alone to take this route.

[Randomness]

On 2007-11-18 14:24, Nyreal wrote:

On 2007-11-18 13:56, Morganna wrote:
[quote

In other words, you love slavery, oppression, and tyranny, and you hate freedom, peace, and human dignity.



It's considered bad argumentation to place words in your opponent's mouth, my friend.


Not to mention the whole ad hominem part.

[Sekani]

On 2007-11-18 13:54, Morganna wrote:
The skill judgement thing was directed to Sekani. You seem basically sane, but he seems to be all about thumping his chest about how uber he is and how mediocre people are subhuman.

In any case, Sekani...I never said that mediocrity should be rewarded. But, neither should skill. If you want a reward just for being skilled, then you are shamefully indulging in boasting.

Moreover, about mediocrity, all I am saying is that you need to ditch the damn attitude and acknowledge that they are of the same human worth as you, which means DO NOT SPEAK ILL OF THEM. To speak ill of another is to treat them as subhuman, and to treat another as subhuman is the same evil that led to slavery.


Holy fucking misquote Batman, where the hell did I say or even imply any of that nonsense?

As for my attitude, that's not me being somehow disrespectful of humanity in general. That's just my natural reaction to YOU and ONLY YOU because your logic is quite frankly some of the most baseless, idiotic, and inane drivel I have ever had the displeasure of reading.

But that problem is easily solvable by departing from this thread. Good day.

[Skuda]

Flaming will get you no where, folks.