So Rangers are now officially support. [Archive]

panzer_unit

Nov 16, 2007, 01:44 PM

On 2007-11-16 10:32, amtalx wrote:
Yea. I can only hope that at some point ST sees it fit to give rangers and forces some kind of JA. Giving the "Strong Attack" to only one class is some high holy horseshyt. The PSO system was much better...except that force did no damage in Ultimate. So yea, JA for rangers and boosted techs for forces. Fix'd.

Or make monsters kick the hunters asses hard enough that fighters deserve boosted damage, and need a lot of support.

Which PSO system was much better... the one where various ranged weapons were horrifically broken? If someone's doing too much damage, it should at least be the guy who's got to take time running to the target.

tailz

Nov 16, 2007, 01:46 PM

speaking of which... i never saw confirmations on rifles at 31... do they stay SE4 or go to SE5?

either way, being able to do massive damage while spreading SE4 in the process is more than enough...
i dont even have great equipment, but i do 570-620s per hit with phantom line / phantom(4) / agtaride(LV2 buff)... plus a little more if i ever use a mega/power instead of a bullet save, which is rare

amtalx

Nov 16, 2007, 01:56 PM

On 2007-11-16 10:44, panzer_unit wrote:

Which PSO system was much better... the one where various ranged weapons were horrifically broken? If someone's doing too much damage, it should at least be the guy who's got to take time running to the target.

The part of PSO that I liked was the Normal, Hard, and Special attacks, not really the weapons per se. Most of all, Hard attacks had lower ATA so there was actually a drawback to using them.

The Baranz Launcher was one of my favorite weapons but using a Hard attack on the first hit of the combo was almost a guaranteed miss. Now its just critical city with no balance. It even gives back PP (WTF IS THAT ALL ABOUT).

I agree that fighter classes need a boost. They shouldn't have been so close in DPS to the other classes to begin with. However, they shouldn't be dealing so much damage that support isn't even necessary. Burn is pointless when everything dies in 4 seconds from JA/PA spams. It's basicially down to having an AT buff and 5 fighters go to town, haha. Maybe throw in a ranger to bring down Onma so the fighters can JA/PA spam....maybe.

jayster

Nov 16, 2007, 01:59 PM

I dont mind forteGunner being a support class, but If I can't find parties because I'm a forteGunner. I'll be selling all my weapons and become a fortefighter.

CelestialBlade

Nov 16, 2007, 02:00 PM

At least Guntecher is one hell of a good support class now.

Golto

Nov 16, 2007, 02:05 PM

The nice atp boost doesn't make my cast FtG support. lvl 30 twinhandgun bullets are doing 500 each w/ buff item. I expect that to jump to close to 550 at lvl 31.

panzer_unit

Nov 16, 2007, 02:17 PM

Damn you for making me want to leave work and start playing to check all this out RIGHT NAO.

This is pretty common JP game re-balancing. "Oh, fighters aren't good enough... well lets up their ATP, boost their skills by varying shades of 'a lot', and throw in some criticals on top of that." Maybe they turned up one too many variables at once.

In theory at least, heavily fighter-sided class balance can work alright as long as Sega steps up to the plate on mission challenge. All they've got to do is stack the deck hard enough that fighters really need the support gunners and techers can provide... any large group of monsters capable of popping fighter-stopping attacks (stagger / juggle / stun / freeze / death), you need someone on hand with some ranged effects to make an opening for your brutes.

This is all ignoring what slicers can do of course. Supposing in future they're just toned down to be on par with a pretty nasty gun that works too. After all, Fortegunners just got the bread and butter parts of Rising Strike, Buten, Majarra, etc.

amtalx

Nov 16, 2007, 02:20 PM

On 2007-11-16 11:05, Golto wrote:
The nice atp boost doesn't make my cast FtG support. lvl 30 twinhandgun bullets are doing 500 each w/ buff item. I expect that to jump to close to 550 at lvl 31.

That's all well and good, but every class got a similar ATP boost. The 100 damage increase for Twin Handungs pales in comparison to the 1000s fighters get for multi-hit PAs using JA.

ThEoRy

Nov 16, 2007, 02:20 PM

On 2007-11-16 10:56, amtalx wrote:
It's basicially down to having an AT buff and 5 fighters go to town, haha. Maybe throw in a ranger to bring down Onma so the fighters can JA/PA spam....maybe.

Yeah, sure, just leave me out of the equation entirely.. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Hiro_Kurisake

Nov 16, 2007, 02:25 PM

I dont like how they did that with melee... makes my Fo Main char cry ;.;
But at least my melee based char wont suck as much as he does now XD Somehow i suck at melee... It confuses me to this day that i cannot succesfully spam pa's like a 'professional' lvl 100

amtalx

Nov 16, 2007, 02:26 PM

On 2007-11-16 11:20, ThEoRy wrote:

On 2007-11-16 10:56, amtalx wrote:
It's basicially down to having an AT buff and 5 fighters go to town, haha. Maybe throw in a ranger to bring down Onma so the fighters can JA/PA spam....maybe.

Yeah, sure, just leave me out of the equation entirely.. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Notice how there is no fG in there either http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif Unless you were talking about the Onma situation, then yea, you're screwed http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

kissablepimp

Nov 16, 2007, 02:28 PM

On 2007-11-16 10:35, Shiryuu wrote:

On 2007-11-16 10:31, kissablepimp wrote:
We still rule we can don't enough damage to keep our selfs alive so don't cout us rangers out yet plus our new SUV's in AOTI.

But rangers =/= Casts... :/

yes cast ranger sorry about that http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

buzyb77

Nov 16, 2007, 02:32 PM

On 2007-11-16 10:51, tailz wrote:
[quote]On 2007-11-16 10:37, oooWaveooo wrote:
i just hope us techers get a big boost. you know i'll be running those madoogs

On 2007-11-16 10:20, Trinitaria wrote:

Forte Techer 10

HP 1364----->1364
ATP 362----->427
ATA 207----->207
TP 1477----->1742
DFP 86----->101
EVP 716----->716
MST 767----->903
STA 12----->12

female newman at 100

I'd Like to See the Male newman version of that...

amtalx

Nov 16, 2007, 02:38 PM

On 2007-11-16 11:17, panzer_unit wrote:

This is pretty common JP game re-balancing. "Oh, fighters aren't good enough... well lets up their ATP, boost their skills by varying shades of 'a lot', and throw in some criticals on top of that." Maybe they turned up one too many variables at once.

I think it would be fantastic if the enemies had some kind of defense against fighters, aside from stopping PA blows with their face. If ST added enemies with Frozen Shooters or ridiculously annoying juggle moves, something that required rangers to support with their new awesome, yet uselss, stagger ability.

Saito S

Nov 16, 2007, 04:39 PM

Hmm... don't forgot about this though: (taken from the list of AoI related changes taking place soon, as listed here (http://www.phantasystaruniverse.com/community_quests.php?item=20071113a).

Changes to Status Inflicting Attacks: Inflicting negative status will be easier for players and enemies. Using different status attacks will be a more effective strategy then before.

Not ONLY will inflicting status effects against enemies be more useful (and that's something Hunter types still can't do, for the most part), but we will have to worry more about status effects inflicted by enemies. This coupled with the previously revealed improvements to enemy A.I. (causing them to actually USE potentially status-inflicting special attacks more often, and not just get close and hack away), will mean that the support from Ranger types (both inflicting status effects of their own and stopping enemy attacks with carefully timed bullet strikes) and Force types (both using Resta/Reverser and, again, helping interrupt enemy attacks with offensive techs) will be all the more important.

In fact, speaking as someone who has both a Fortefighter and a Guntecher, I really hope enemies start inflicting status effects a LOT more. I want to see status effects being tossed out left and right on both sides. Running headlong into a large mob as a melee type without good backup should get you frozen/burned/shocked/stunned (etc etc) to death in short order. This would provide a good point of balance to all the huge damage boosts melee types are getting. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Flwl3ssCowboy

Nov 16, 2007, 04:42 PM

On 2007-11-16 11:38, amtalx wrote:

On 2007-11-16 11:17, panzer_unit wrote:

This is pretty common JP game re-balancing. "Oh, fighters aren't good enough... well lets up their ATP, boost their skills by varying shades of 'a lot', and throw in some criticals on top of that." Maybe they turned up one too many variables at once.

I think it would be fantastic if the enemies had some kind of defense against fighters, aside from stopping PA blows with their face. If ST added enemies with Frozen Shooters or ridiculously annoying juggle moves, something that required rangers to support with their new awesome, yet uselss, stagger ability.

Well then Hunters are screwed in a party without rangers.

Yusaku_Kudou

Nov 16, 2007, 05:07 PM

With enemies using SE attacks more often, I feel that rangers will still be out in great numbers. Also... did they fix the machinegun glitch? Can anybody report on that? I really hope they took it out.

panzer_unit

Nov 16, 2007, 05:10 PM

On 2007-11-16 13:42, Flwl3ssCowboy wrote:
Well then Hunters are screwed in a party without rangers.

Good old lv20 handgun skills. It's on the low end of effectiveness, but should work to some degree.

GuardianPoe

Nov 16, 2007, 05:14 PM

On 2007-11-16 14:07, Yusaku_Kudou wrote:
Also... did they fix the machinegun glitch? Can anybody report on that? I really hope they took it out.

"Changes To First Person View And Goggle Activation: This adjustment will cause a delay when switching between normal camera, first-person and goggle viewing modes."

From the update page on the official site. From what I heard regarding how the glitch worked, I assume this fix is to address it.

Yusaku_Kudou

Nov 16, 2007, 05:18 PM

Yeah, I read the update, but I'm waiting for somebody to confirm it first-hand.

Sev

Nov 16, 2007, 05:19 PM

So... Why do people want me to get hurt more often?

Just Attack is still giving me trouble with certain weapons... (Sword, surprise surprise...) I really don't want to get hit harder or set on fire/frozen/poisoned/stunned/slept/shocked more often because someone thinks there job is becoming useless... I mean I could see if it were a bunch of melee classes harping about how they don't need support, but it's more support saying that we melee don't need it. Stop making my decisions for me, I like Ranged attacks and Technics in my party. I dislike extra pain though.

Hath_Wrobo

Nov 16, 2007, 06:15 PM

Isn't all classes technically support? In a party, everyone supports each other. Saying that rangers are now support means they are unable to solo, which is far from the truth.

Let's also overlook the fact that because of the decrease in Large enemy END, it is now 10x easier to SE. I think that affects rangers the most, doesn't it? Rangers are for the most part, mid to long range attackers, of course Hunters will do more damage because they are in the front lines. I really don't see the problem here. If more damage was added to Ranger's attacks, then Hunters would be the ones complaining.

Fure_Rakune

Nov 16, 2007, 06:21 PM

Guntecher is such a joy to play now.
I can heal for more than 300, and its damn beautiful.
Ive got my buffs and debuffs back, coupled with my bullets I am now a pretty potent guardian.

Hath_Wrobo

Nov 16, 2007, 06:22 PM

On 2007-11-16 15:21, Fure_Rakune wrote:
Guntecher is such a joy to play now.
I can heal for more than 300, and its damn beautiful.
Ive got my buffs and debuffs back, coupled with my bullets I am now a pretty potent guardian.

Just wait till the expansion, giresta lvl 21 will be better than resta for us http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Sinue_v2

Nov 16, 2007, 06:31 PM

Guntechers went from broke to broke. Before, they were basically just a bit weaker normal rangers (but still very powerful in their own right with bows, x-bows, and shotguns) with the ability to heal a bit in a pinch. Now, they're a support powerhouse w/ lvl 30 techs, increased status effect ability, as well as a decent variety of traps capable of taking down some of the most powerful enemies singlehandedly almost effortlessly.

Their only downside is that they are still restricted to 6 slots on the pallet. Of course, these slots should only be taken up by Wand/Xbow combos and shotguns, w/ 1 Rifle or Bow.

[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2007-11-16 15:36 ]

CelestialBlade

Nov 16, 2007, 06:33 PM

GOD I love my Guntecher so much right now. Being a Newearl, her Resta is pretty disgusting now. We're VERY good support players now.

Soukosa

Nov 16, 2007, 06:47 PM

On 2007-11-16 15:33, Typheros wrote:
GOD I love my Guntecher so much right now. Being a Newearl, her Resta is pretty disgusting now. We're VERY good support players now.

Indeed. GT is much nicer after Illminus. I often finding myself as being the person that supports the whole party with heals and buffs, all the while still able to spread out SEs and damage. I personally find it easier to support on a GT than on an FT http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Offensive techs are alot more useful as well. Offensive techs + S grade shadoog will help alot with those ranged resistant enemies (penetrating beam with supposedly SE4 that fires at a decent rate while casting techs).

GeekRuler

Nov 16, 2007, 07:07 PM

I'd like the time in this post to state that Protransers will get both spectrums of fighting and the ability to use the very spiffy EX traps. :3

For all I care there can be a battle about this and I'm stuck in the middle totally fine with what I'm getting in AoI.

(really sux for the rest of you http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif)

CelestialBlade

Nov 16, 2007, 08:04 PM

On 2007-11-16 15:47, Soukosa wrote:

On 2007-11-16 15:33, Typheros wrote:
GOD I love my Guntecher so much right now. Being a Newearl, her Resta is pretty disgusting now. We're VERY good support players now.

Indeed. GT is much nicer after Illminus. I often finding myself as being the person that supports the whole party with heals and buffs, all the while still able to spread out SEs and damage. I personally find it easier to support on a GT than on an FT http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Offensive techs are alot more useful as well. Offensive techs + S grade shadoog will help alot with those ranged resistant enemies (penetrating beam with supposedly SE4 that fires at a decent rate while casting techs).

Yeah, that's always what I wanted my Guntecher to be, a master of all things support. I'm currently getting her buffs to 21, then gonna work on debuffs, Resta, and Giresta. I would rank Guntechers second only to Acrotechers in terms of support, because we have the same level buffs as fTs BUT we're much better at spreading SEs, we're pretty much THE best SE class. Offensive AND defensive support? Hel yeh.

RAmarls are BACK, baby.

pikachief

Nov 16, 2007, 08:26 PM

lol yea i've always gottne the most kills!

i would be told to put away my shotgun sometimes or my Xbow http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

they got mad at me for taking all the killing hits! XD

cant wait to show them my slicer http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

amtalx

Nov 16, 2007, 09:35 PM

On 2007-11-16 13:42, Flwl3ssCowboy wrote:

On 2007-11-16 11:38, amtalx wrote:

On 2007-11-16 11:17, panzer_unit wrote:

This is pretty common JP game re-balancing. "Oh, fighters aren't good enough... well lets up their ATP, boost their skills by varying shades of 'a lot', and throw in some criticals on top of that." Maybe they turned up one too many variables at once.

I think it would be fantastic if the enemies had some kind of defense against fighters, aside from stopping PA blows with their face. If ST added enemies with Frozen Shooters or ridiculously annoying juggle moves, something that required rangers to support with their new awesome, yet uselss, stagger ability.

Well then Hunters are screwed in a party without rangers.

I think every party should be screwed without at least someone that can do force/hunter/ranger work. As it stands now, hunters don't need rangers and having a force is nice, but not necessary. Forces and rangers need tanks. See the disconnect here?

On a different topic, I think the enemy STA nerf is cool. It's pointless now since everything dies so fast. DoTs are part of why rangers are awesome, but when creatures die before 1 tick of Burn can go off what's the point? We will need higher Lvl monsters before enemy HP is high enough for SE to matter again.

Elley

Nov 16, 2007, 10:39 PM

fF can solo S2 missions. fF can hit consistantly for 2k dmg. Isn't there something wrong with this picture? Why don't we all just play fF then?

Hath_Wrobo

Nov 16, 2007, 10:46 PM

On 2007-11-16 19:39, Elley wrote:
fF can solo S2 missions. fF can hit consistantly for 2k dmg. Isn't there something wrong with this picture? Why don't we all just play fF then?

So you're saying, that a class that uses attacks at mostly mid to long range, should have almost equal damage to classes which attack at close range? What would then be the point of fF? There has to be a balance.

Does everyone remember the old fighting games? Where usually characters that were slower were more powerful, and that very fast characters were relatively weak in comparison? It's because there has to be a balance. Try to picture to characters doing the same exact damage, same speed of striking, but one is ranged while the other is melee. There would be no reason to be the melee class.

[ This Message was edited by: Hath_Wrobo on 2007-11-16 19:46 ]

pikachief

Nov 16, 2007, 10:47 PM

On 2007-11-16 19:39, Elley wrote:
fF can solo S2 missions. fF can hit consistantly for 2k dmg. Isn't there something wrong with this picture? Why don't we all just play fF then?

cuz i can easily solo S2's of dulk fakis on my gunner..... maybe your just not a good player and need your JA >.>

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif loljk ^.^

i still will always think gunners are the best and will never be able to lvl up fortefighter cuz i think they suck to much to be played as http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

of course thats just my opinion though http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

CelestialBlade

Nov 16, 2007, 10:57 PM

Gunners of any type can pretty easily solo missions. I still have an easier time soloing with gunners than melee.

Elley

Nov 16, 2007, 10:57 PM

On 2007-11-16 19:46, Hath_Wrobo wrote:

On 2007-11-16 19:39, Elley wrote:
fF can solo S2 missions. fF can hit consistantly for 2k dmg. Isn't there something wrong with this picture? Why don't we all just play fF then?

So you're saying, that a class that uses attacks at mostly mid to long range, should have almost equal damage to classes which attack at close range? What would then be the point of fF? There has to be a balance.

Does everyone remember the old fighting games? Where usually characters that were slower were more powerful, and that very fast characters were relatively weak in comparison? It's because there has to be a balance. Try to picture to characters doing the same exact damage, same speed of striking, but one is ranged while the other is melee. There would be no reason to be the melee class.

[ This Message was edited by: Hath_Wrobo on 2007-11-16 19:46 ]

We don't have to be EQUAL to fF, but good god, at least give us some sort of mechanic to increase critical chances. It's not just the retarded amount of extra damage they do, but they also get to have more fun doing said damage with timed button presses. Meanwhile I will just be spamming "x" like always with zero added functionality or entertainment. What they did wasn't "balancing" it was "overpowering". There is a gross difference.

Mystil

Nov 17, 2007, 12:06 AM

Uhm, last I checked, Just Attack isn't Fortefighter only.

Proff

Nov 17, 2007, 12:06 AM

On 2007-11-16 14:14, GuardianPoe wrote:

On 2007-11-16 14:07, Yusaku_Kudou wrote:
Also... did they fix the machinegun glitch? Can anybody report on that? I really hope they took it out.

"Changes To First Person View And Goggle Activation: This adjustment will cause a delay when switching between normal camera, first-person and goggle viewing modes."

From the update page on the official site. From what I heard regarding how the glitch worked, I assume this fix is to address it.

While it never worked on the PS2 version, it is indeed removed from the PC version.

Sgt_Shligger

Nov 17, 2007, 12:30 AM

On 2007-11-16 19:46, Hath_Wrobo wrote:

On 2007-11-16 19:39, Elley wrote:
fF can solo S2 missions. fF can hit consistantly for 2k dmg. Isn't there something wrong with this picture? Why don't we all just play fF then?

So you're saying, that a class that uses attacks at mostly mid to long range, should have almost equal damage to classes which attack at close range? What would then be the point of fF? There has to be a balance.

Does everyone remember the old fighting games? Where usually characters that were slower were more powerful, and that very fast characters were relatively weak in comparison? It's because there has to be a balance. Try to picture to characters doing the same exact damage, same speed of striking, but one is ranged while the other is melee. There would be no reason to be the melee class.

Basically reiterating what Elley said. The balance between range and melee is still out of whack. The problem is that a melee fighter's damage is so high that attacking at range is pointless. If you can kill an enemy at range and not get hit while the melee guy can kill the enemy before he can FIGHT BACK then you have a problem.

Darkly

Nov 17, 2007, 01:17 AM

It seems ST can never succesfully please the crowd. Just look to jp, if the game is too easy i'm sure they will change the system AGAIN.

Ideally though, i think fighters deserve this boost, yet i see no reason why gunners shouldn't get hard attacks - that have to be timed like JA, and techers get a damage boost also. Fighters should be the damage dealers, gunners and techers should be competent, but have their other abilities to balance it out.

It would be nice if ST do make harder enemies, fighters should take heavy damage and get SE'd a lot, that way FG can use shock and silence etc. to help out fighters - instead of only ever use burn or virus on large enemies. This leaves techers who can now focus on looking after the party and then dealing damage. I like this this system, rangers supporting combat, techers supporting the players and everything works if you got a nice party set up.

Yet all that would be pointless if they don't make monsters any harder.

Yusaku_Kudou

Nov 17, 2007, 01:38 AM

I guess it's pretty nice if a hunter can solo an S2. Rangers have been doing this for a long time.

amtalx

Nov 17, 2007, 02:13 AM

On 2007-11-16 19:57, Elley wrote:

We don't have to be EQUAL to fF, but good god, at least give us some sort of mechanic to increase critical chances. It's not just the retarded amount of extra damage they do, but they also get to have more fun doing said damage with timed button presses. Meanwhile I will just be spamming "x" like always with zero added functionality or entertainment. What they did wasn't "balancing" it was "overpowering". There is a gross difference.

QFT

The other "support" classes need to have something to support. Right now, fighters support themselves. Fighter DPS is so grossly disproportionate to the other classes abilities, they are no longer necessary. Why have all these classes if only a handful of them can server a purpose? I can only hope that higher rank missions will drive HP high enough to make SE viable again.

[ This Message was edited by: amtalx on 2007-11-16 23:13 ]

Sev

Nov 17, 2007, 02:16 AM

I do wanna object that Fighters can critical at will here... Maybe I'm just not good at the game, but it's not like I always land my JA... Can you imagine a Ranger or Force equivalent JA?

Tap... Tap... Tap... Crit... Crit... Crit...

Mine is more like...

Tap...... Tap (DAMMIT!).... Tap.... Tap (FFS!)

It's also weapon dependent too. Getting a crit on some PA's is almost not worth the effect... Getting a crit on regular sword attacks doesn't seem to be worth anything. There's also the fact that you'd be getting a JA equivalent, along with inflicting higher SE's, as well as being out of range for attacks. I don't know what Hunters you're playing with, most likely capped out ones... But I know that my fF still feels pain.

Arcturus

Nov 17, 2007, 02:28 AM

In other news, ST nerfed the PP regen of Rangers after giving Hunters quasi-superpowers.
http://pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=159743&forum=11

Yusaku_Kudou

Nov 17, 2007, 02:46 AM

On 2007-11-16 23:28, Arcturus wrote:
In other news, ST nerfed the PP regen of Rangers after giving Hunters quasi-superpowers.
http://pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=159743&forum=11

I am SO glad I sold my Hard / Power Charge, which I only used with fortegunner. This would have made FG unbearable.

pikachief

Nov 17, 2007, 02:51 AM

On 2007-11-16 23:46, Yusaku_Kudou wrote:

On 2007-11-16 23:28, Arcturus wrote:
In other news, ST nerfed the PP regen of Rangers after giving Hunters quasi-superpowers.
http://pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=159743&forum=11

I am SO glad I sold my Hard / Power Charge, which I only used with fortegunner. This would have made FG unbearable.

i have always laughed at, and will continue to alwyas laugh at, gunners with power charges! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

I would like to quote a friend ho uses one!

"Its ok, i only use about 6 photon charges a run, its not that bad."

Katryn

Nov 17, 2007, 03:24 AM

I will say here what I say in every post about "Will I still be useful". The usefulness of a character has Nothing to do with (99% of the time) the race / class combo, and Everything to do with the player. Therefore, regardless of your class of choice, you should really have nothing to fear.

Arcturus

Nov 17, 2007, 04:08 PM

On 2007-11-17 00:24, Katryn wrote:
I will say here what I say in every post about "Will I still be useful". The usefulness of a character has Nothing to do with (99% of the time) the race / class combo, and Everything to do with the player. Therefore, regardless of your class of choice, you should really have nothing to fear.

Uh... yes it does have to do with race/class. Sure, the player being willing to help out is essential, but almost all players provide that. A level 100 Beast fF is gonna be a lot more useful than a level 20 Newman fG.

[ This Message was edited by: Arcturus on 2007-11-17 13:09 ]

physic

Nov 17, 2007, 04:57 PM

1 just attack is every class and can be used by rangers who forte gunner has like 3rd highest atp, and level 20 skills, acess to spears daggers and sabers, so yeah you can use it to for pretty good dmg.

2 realize that the elemental nerf is a 2 way street, being that even the best armor isnt going to protect you much, ad the fact FF had thier evade dropped to almost nothing, coupled with big dif in how much you get bad status, defense is now really bad sure FF deals a lot but they take even more.

3 good luck dealing with frozen or para status, oh yeah guess what sol atomizers arent available by npc any more, sooo yeah your prolly gonna need people hitting the mobs.

4. burn and virus was too dominant, there were a number of enemies who there was no little good way to fight em without it. guess what you also have ice silence confuse and para, use more bullets.

5.check your mods, you ll find many ranger abandoned weapons are now more hax, 230% attack on lasers 220 something on grenades 180% on shotgun. maybe you should use dif weapons for more dmg. btw level 2 effects can work on big mobs with less chance, but hmmm 5 bullets, maybe less is more. just counter, does wonders with shotguns btw. pure critical on 5 bullets and no delay hmmmm.

play the class and see if your really useless before you swear you are

Miyoko

Nov 17, 2007, 05:14 PM

On 2007-11-17 13:57, physic wrote:
1 just attack is every class and can be used by rangers who forte gunner has like 3rd highest atp, and level 20 skills, acess to spears daggers and sabers, so yeah you can use it to for pretty good dmg.

2 realize that the elemental nerf is a 2 way street, being that even the best armor isnt going to protect you much, ad the fact FF had thier evade dropped to almost nothing, coupled with big dif in how much you get bad status, defense is now really bad sure FF deals a lot but they take even more.

3 good luck dealing with frozen or para status, oh yeah guess what sol atomizers arent available by npc any more, sooo yeah your prolly gonna need people hitting the mobs.

4. burn and virus was too dominant, there were a number of enemies who there was no little good way to fight em without it. guess what you also have ice silence confuse and para, use more bullets.

5.check your mods, you ll find many ranger abandoned weapons are now more hax, 230% attack on lasers 220 something on grenades 180% on shotgun. maybe you should use dif weapons for more dmg. btw level 2 effects can work on big mobs with less chance, but hmmm 5 bullets, maybe less is more. just counter, does wonders with shotguns btw. pure critical on 5 bullets and no delay hmmmm.

play the class and see if your really useless before you swear you are

Just Counter doesn't work on Techs and Guns... You get the little graphic circle thingy, but it doesn't make guns or techs crit.

Sychosis

Nov 17, 2007, 05:17 PM

On 2007-11-17 13:57, physic wrote:
1 just attack is every class and can be used by rangers who forte gunner has like 3rd highest atp, and level 20 skills, acess to spears daggers and sabers, so yeah you can use it to for pretty good dmg.

2 realize that the elemental nerf is a 2 way street, being that even the best armor isnt going to protect you much, ad the fact FF had thier evade dropped to almost nothing, coupled with big dif in how much you get bad status, defense is now really bad sure FF deals a lot but they take even more.

3 good luck dealing with frozen or para status, oh yeah guess what sol atomizers arent available by npc any more, sooo yeah your prolly gonna need people hitting the mobs.

4. burn and virus was too dominant, there were a number of enemies who there was no little good way to fight em without it. guess what you also have ice silence confuse and para, use more bullets.

5.check your mods, you ll find many ranger abandoned weapons are now more hax, 230% attack on lasers 220 something on grenades 180% on shotgun. maybe you should use dif weapons for more dmg. btw level 2 effects can work on big mobs with less chance, but hmmm 5 bullets, maybe less is more. just counter, does wonders with shotguns btw. pure critical on 5 bullets and no delay hmmmm.

play the class and see if your really useless before you swear you are

1. For that much, why not just go Fortefighter? When you have to ask yourself this, there is a balance issue.

2. The same can be said for shotgun users and Gi/Dam/Megiverse/Regrant TECHNIC users. Only those do no deal OMGWTF damage for getting facepwned moreso than a fighter.

3. Sols not being available is an error. Half the PM devices are gone too.

4. But now they are next to worthless. Going from overpowered to underpowered doesn't fix anything.

5. For the 30% more damage shotguns do, every melee weapon got an 80%+ boost in already superior damage. Also, JC doesn't guarantee criticals unless you JC with, surprise surprise, melee weapons.

Xaeris

Nov 17, 2007, 05:19 PM

It's a shame if 3 is really an error. 'Cause it actually makes sense.

amtalx

Nov 17, 2007, 05:22 PM

On 2007-11-17 14:19, Xaeris wrote:
It's a shame if 3 is really an error. 'Cause it actually makes sense.

It only makes sense if enemies are alive long enough to stick an SE...which they are not.

Rizen

Nov 17, 2007, 05:26 PM

On 2007-11-17 14:14, Miyoko wrote:
Just Counter doesn't work on Techs and Guns... You get the little graphic circle thingy, but it doesn't make guns or techs crit.

True, but what you don't see is that you are able to cast Techs or use a bullet immediately after Just Counter. Very helpful if you want to speed cast or shoot.

pikachief

Nov 17, 2007, 05:29 PM

ok this is what i got from what elly is syaing

"ZOMG RANGERS ARENT THE STRONGEST CLASS ANYMORE! THEY MUST BE SUPPORT! ATTENTION EVERYONE RANGERS ARENT THE BEST SO THAT MUST MEAN THEY'RE THE WORST! STOP PLAY AS THEM!"

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

thats what your saying rihgt elly?

[ This Message was edited by: pikachief on 2007-11-17 14:32 ]

Zarode

Nov 17, 2007, 05:31 PM

k, stop playing gunner then. I'd appreciate the drop in prices.

amtalx

Nov 17, 2007, 05:37 PM

On 2007-11-17 14:29, pikachief wrote:
ok this is what i got from what elly is syaing

"ZOMG RANGERS ARENT THE STRONGEST CLASS ANYMORE! THEY MUST BE SUPPORT! ATTENTION EVERYONE RANGERS ARENT THE BEST SO THAT MUST MEAN THEY'RE THE WORST! STOP PLAY AS THEM!"

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

The problem is there shouldn't be a strongest class to begin with. Fighters should be damage dealers, gunners should supplement with long range consistent damage, stagger to help the fighters, and SE for high HP and melee/tech resistant enemies, forces support with buffs/debuffs, state maintenance and nuke for even more damage. That only works if enemies are alive long enough for the supporters to support. ST has made sure that's not the case anymore.

physic

Nov 17, 2007, 07:22 PM

if you take huge damage and have no choice but to eat ae, yet you dont do way more dmg whats the point.

As far as using just attack on forte, uhhh why did you think they gave you level 20 skills if your never supposed to use them.

the increase in % on shotcuns coupled with the increase in atp has a cast doing 500 per bullet across 5 bullets thats 2.5 k, a shot.

Fortegunner was overpowered, now its not as powerful as a FF that makes sense to me. also keep in mind FF has to run to mobs, and attack a few, before i reach a mob, ranger has already shot it for 500-800 damage 3 times. or used shotty to do 1500 to 3 mobs. frozen or shocked 3 mobs in the process.

Ive soloed on FF, its better than before, but your still in a battle with running out of mates or healing items if your fighting a level of similar level. go try to solo true darkness S2, you ll take a fair amount of damage. eat a 800-1100 foie after getting ae frozen.

Miyoko

Nov 18, 2007, 12:59 PM

On 2007-11-17 14:26, Rizen wrote:

On 2007-11-17 14:14, Miyoko wrote:
Just Counter doesn't work on Techs and Guns... You get the little graphic circle thingy, but it doesn't make guns or techs crit.

True, but what you don't see is that you are able to cast Techs or use a bullet immediately after Just Counter. Very helpful if you want to speed cast or shoot.

It's always been like that... Being hit resets the firing/casting rate timer. It's ALWAYS been like this, and it's has nothing to do with Just Counter. :/ I know, because I did it all the time with Rods and shotguns.

amtalx

Nov 19, 2007, 12:48 AM

On 2007-11-17 16:22, physic wrote:
if you take huge damage and have no choice but to eat ae, yet you dont do way more dmg whats the point.

Enemies have to live long enough to get to you before they can deal damage. Not the case anymore.

As far as using just attack on forte, uhhh why did you think they gave you level 20 skills if your never supposed to use them.

I do use my melee skills.

the increase in % on shotcuns coupled with the increase in atp has a cast doing 500 per bullet across 5 bullets thats 2.5 k, a shot.

That's great. You know how much damage that amounts to? ONE HIT ON A SINGLE TARGET FROM A SLICER.

Fortegunner was overpowered, now its not as powerful as a FF that makes sense to me. also keep in mind FF has to run to mobs, and attack a few, before i reach a mob, ranger has already shot it for 500-800 damage 3 times. or used shotty to do 1500 to 3 mobs. frozen or shocked 3 mobs in the process.

I know, fF should be more powerful than fG. But not orders of magnitude stronger. The DPS difference is between 600-700% for any other class at first glance. Thats fuckiing ridiculous.

Ive soloed on FF, its better than before, but your still in a battle with running out of mates or healing items if your fighting a level of similar level. go try to solo true darkness S2, you ll take a fair amount of damage. eat a 800-1100 foie after getting ae frozen.

Ummm, you're a fighter. You are supposed to take damage. Wy don't we just imbue your weapons with 100% Killer Shot so you don't have to use any healing items anymore eh?