Acrotech vs Wartech

[Eo50]

I have a level 49 beast, and I am going to switch her over to either Acrotech or Wartech, but I am not sure which to go with. Granted I've already reached lvl 9 Fortefighter at this point in time. I just don't know which of the two to pick because being a fortefighter and mowing things down continously with wicked sword skills gets a little dull quick.

[StkDrowsy]

ummm......ur gon abe ed at levelings spells....trust me, if u thought meele was annoying dont even think about some spells, but why not acrofigher? mybe?

[Rizen]

Acrotecher is more for Support while Wartecher is Offense.

Technic wise, Acrotecher is the better choce. They have lv 40 Support and 30 Offensive with a higher TP modifier while Wartecher only has lv 20 Support and Lv 30 Offensive with a moderate TP modifier.

Offensive wise, Wartecher is the better choice. They have lv 30 Skills with a broader weapon selection of weapons meant for high damage and higher ATP and better defense modifier. Acrotecher only has lv 20 Skills with a decent TP moderate ATP modifier. On the other hand, Acrotecher does have higher ATA and EVP than Wartecher, but that doesn't account for too much.

In the end, choose what works for you. Just don't let anyone ever tell you that an Acrotecher is better for melee than a Wartecher because even with lv 40 buffs, Wartecher will always top an Acrotecher in melee.

[Pillan]

Wartecher deals more melee damage than Acrotecher and has better melee weapons choices while Acrotecher deals more tech damage than Wartecher, has slightly better ranged weapon choices, and has level 40 support. Wartecher also has better overall surviability, making it more suited for close-range combat.

So choose based on which sounds more apealing to you.

[SolomonGrundy]

Beast are far more suited stat wise to Wartecher. The better HP/ATP/DFP plays to thier strengths. Also with WTs getting S rank fists and claws is going to be a big boost for Beast WTs (great ATA).

AT's play more to TP/ATA/EVP/MST

The downside is that R mags have so-so accuracy - couple that with Beast 'worst in class' accuracy I worry that it'll be 0,0,0 on higher difficulty...I'd cross them off the list.

9* whips might be a fit. Especially if you can get your hands on a Solid / Knight or Cati Hit. (heck, Tero / Hit will help big time.

[Kimil]

Either way you'll be fine, ATs tend to do more DPS with melee weps than their Attack Techs, so Beasts make decent ones.

[Kelvie]

If you don't want to throw away your melee PAs, I would suggest you to become a Wartecher since they got a way better melee weapons selection.

[LTrav2k]

I'd have to agree that offensively wartecher will serve you better. The higher cap on skills helps accuracy a good deal in most cases while in melee combat, and you can always increase the stat swing further with debuffs. Everyone above has already said it, WT provides better survivability and a better melee weapon selection for you to stick closer to the FF goodness you're accustomed to.

[mll]

On 2007-11-25 19:01, Pillan wrote:
Wartecher deals more melee damage than Acrotecher and has better melee weapons choices while Acrotecher deals more tech damage than Wartecher, has slightly better ranged weapon choices, and has level 40 support. Wartecher also has better overall surviability, making it more suited for close-range combat.

So choose based on which sounds more apealing to you.



I'd take Wartechers ranged weapons over acrotechers. Its just a twin handguns vs. longbow choice right?
Twin handguns and cards are much the same except for being able to go in to 1st person and a longbow is better for that. I'd say the s-rank cards would just cover the atp difference.

[StKkilo]

or stay FF??? wartecher and acro = pointless with worhtless damage and no need too have one in a party. stay FF or die.

[Pillan]

On 2007-11-26 07:41, mll wrote:
I'd take Wartechers ranged weapons over acrotechers. Its just a twin handguns vs. longbow choice right?
Twin handguns and cards are much the same except for being able to go in to 1st person and a longbow is better for that. I'd say the s-rank cards would just cover the atp difference.


Cards do a lot more damage than twin handguns and S cards won't make up for the ATP difference. AT trades bows for twin handguns and machineguns. Machineguns have that nice ability to stun-lock medium mobs now and twin handguns do two or three times the damage of bows at the same level unless the mob has rediculous DFP (aside from the range difference). Plus there's the ATA difference which is actually noticable even with cards due to the low mod, but I'm not sure if it's enough to even out the damage.

So it's more of a utility thing than a damage thing. Between handguns and cards, WT can do about as much or more ranged damage than AT can and more melee damage. All AT really has over WT in terms of output is tech damage.

[mll]

Forgot about mechguns, they would be a nice weapon to have.
"Its more of a utility thing than a damage thing" sums up the differences between the two classes quite well actually

[Eo50]

Yeah, I just tried out both AT and WT, and I like the WT more but since I played a FF first I am prone to charging in too fast and forgetting that I can buff and heal myself. When I went AT I couldn't use my Rabol Rappy no more either (the best armor I have on hand). The Tech-Mag on the side for heals and some elemental spells (for the lack of weaponry with said element) is probably my top fave and has replaced most my guns (one spot is recieved for mag/wand for buffs though). My palette is in the suck right now, and I only own one whip (I'm currently in love with how the whip works, but the dmg is a bit depressing but bareable).

But in the long run, I'll stay WT because I'm running friends constantly through that new 5 block mission at the AMF Metro and one of them is a bit short on the IQ side so he always forgets to heal himself (baka). Glad the other one is at least smart enough to know which direction to go into and to heal himself...

[Pandorasbox]

For those they favor heavy weapons (or more melee oriented) with techs as their playstyle Wartecher is a good choice. For those who like quick attacks and fast casting techs jumping in and out of battle AT is more suited to them. Although AT is a more tech heavy class than WT. Many FT have migrated from that to AT since the playstyle is better (and so are stats and choices).

[SolomonGrundy]

regarding ranged weapon choices.

the modifier on twin handguns may be better at level 20 than bows, but but bows have far higher ATA, *and* the kubara versions have high ATA still.

going from WT to AT does increase your base ATA significantly, though.

perhaps pillan would be so good as to calculate actual ATA values for machine gun, card, bow, and twin handgun at bullet level 20, and at 100/10 for both AT and WT for a female beast.

[angemaru]

On 2007-11-25 19:53, SolomonGrundy wrote:
Beast are far more suited stat wise to Wartecher. The better HP/ATP/DFP plays to thier strengths. Also with WTs getting S rank fists and claws is going to be a big boost for Beast WTs (great ATA).


WT are getting S-rank Fists and claws ??

when ?

[Zael]

On 2007-11-26 09:09, StKkilo wrote:
or stay FF??? wartecher and acro = pointless with worhtless damage and no need too have one in a party. stay FF or die.


This has got to be the stupidest possible post on this topic, not including possible replies to my post.

A party of all FFs lacks support, nor a way to deal with flying and single-target, melee-resistant enemies effiently. Your slicers won't be doing shit to De Lol Re, Jarbas, Zoonas, etc. compared to what an AT could be doing to them, while keeping the other fighters at level 31+ buffs.

[Konstanse_Xx]

On 2007-11-27 22:36, Zael wrote:

On 2007-11-26 09:09, StKkilo wrote:
or stay FF??? wartecher and acro = pointless with worhtless damage and no need too have one in a party. stay FF or die.


This has got to be the stupidest possible post on this topic, not including possible replies to my post.

A party of all FFs lacks support, nor a way to deal with flying and single-target, melee-resistant enemies effiently. Your slicers won't be doing shit to De Lol Re, Jarbas, Zoonas, etc. compared to what an AT could be doing to them, while keeping the other fighters at level 31+ buffs.


True that, it's a funny because as a friend told me "flying monsters = haet", at least for him.

I remember duoing with an FF for a few runs of Awakened Serpent S, we had the Vanda map each time. I used the Earth whip against them, was only hitting for minuscule damage, but guess what? Vandas couldn't do crap to the FF while he poured onto the group with Majarra. Also who cares if the buffs/Resta are only level 20, they were re-applied each and every time the MOMENT his ran out, and who the hell says "I don't want your free Resta because it's level 20."

Acrotecher and Wartecher pump out awesome damage now, anyone who thinks they're 'worthless' has no idea how ANY of the classes work.

[-Asheth-]

Before this turns into a class war I will jump in a state facts that matter before it get out of hand.

I am a Acrotecher now use to be a WT but I am human male so Acro classes are best for me IMO. Anyway, Techs AT wins AT melee is ok not great now to someone that sees a big numbers with there AT they probably are comparing them to before JA. With that being said Pillian has said before and I have seen with my own eyes that a WT with a Whip> A acrotecher with whip by a substantial amount. But like that said it depends on what you like for play style if you were FF you probably will lean more toward WT if you played FT you would lean more to AT.

[Broodstar1337]

I play a Newman Male Acrotecher and my playing style would probably have me more suited to run with Wartecher. But I'm not planning on making any jumps anytime soon.

AT still does decent melee damage and Attack Technics aren't completely useless in their own right. While Wartecher might play faster support with lvl 20 support techs, I still play stronger support with a higher support tech cap. WT's have stronger melee and I have faster melee. There are tradeoffs here and there, but I really don't give a shit.

[Pillan]

On 2007-11-28 04:40, -Asheth- wrote:
With that being said Pillian has said before and I have seen with my own eyes that a WT with a Whip> A acrotecher with whip by a substantial amount.


My whip damage dropped to like 760 or so on the second combo as Caseal 110/AT 10. So around a 25% power drop, which will probably decrease to around a 20% power drop once I hit AT 15.

But, yeah, even if the whip isn't useful in a situation, I can still break 3000 Just Attacking Spinning Strike as an AT and 1000 Just Attacking the first move of Hikai (which covers the 3 main damage situations). Not as nice as the numbers a WT sees, much less an fF, but not exactly bad either, especially considering your support power and range.

EDIT:

Apparently that was a lower level AT damage. At AT 10, my whip is getting 860s.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-11-28 07:48 ]</font>

[MT7218]

On 2007-11-28 03:35, Konstanse_Xx wrote:

On 2007-11-27 22:36, Zael wrote:

On 2007-11-26 09:09, StKkilo wrote:
or stay FF??? wartecher and acro = pointless with worhtless damage and no need too have one in a party. stay FF or die.


This has got to be the stupidest possible post on this topic, not including possible replies to my post.

A party of all FFs lacks support, nor a way to deal with flying and single-target, melee-resistant enemies effiently. Your slicers won't be doing shit to De Lol Re, Jarbas, Zoonas, etc. compared to what an AT could be doing to them, while keeping the other fighters at level 31+ buffs.


True that, it's a funny because as a friend told me "flying monsters = haet", at least for him.

I remember duoing with an FF for a few runs of Awakened Serpent S, we had the Vanda map each time. I used the Earth whip against them, was only hitting for minuscule damage, but guess what? Vandas couldn't do crap to the FF while he poured onto the group with Majarra. Also who cares if the buffs/Resta are only level 20, they were re-applied each and every time the MOMENT his ran out, and who the hell says "I don't want your free Resta because it's level 20."

Acrotecher and Wartecher pump out awesome damage now, anyone who thinks they're 'worthless' has no idea how ANY of the classes work.



Keep in mind the mindset of the PSU community. You MUST idealize your DPS 9001% of the time or you will be considered the weakest, most slackassed noob in the game. God forbid there should be deviation in the playstyles in PSU, trading off offensive power to be able to do other things better.

And to be in before someone takes it the wrong way: I'm being sarcastic.

Also, to add something useful and revlant to the topic: Beast WTs also get a good boost when getting S fists. Gudda Hon, the 11* fist, and it's Kubara version, Gudda Honc, is Beast only. (Sucks for me, as I play a Newman WT. GG Sonic Team, encourage the racsism made by stats and DPS even more. x.x)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MT7218 on 2007-11-28 15:47 ]</font>

[SolomonGrundy]

Apparently that was a lower level AT damage. At AT 10, my whip is getting 860s.

Humans get a significant boost to the AT class, which may be enough to close the gap. Also, ATs get S rank whips, which have more ATP and PP than lower ranks (and thus should further close the gap).

Final note: I'd feel VERY comfortable using a solid power S with an AT, something I'd not be comfortable doing with a WT.

[Zael]

Agreed. SPS on my AT is pretty awesome.

[Pillan]

On 2007-11-28 15:46, SolomonGrundy wrote:
Humans get a significant boost to the AT class, which may be enough to close the gap. Also, ATs get S rank whips, which have more ATP and PP than lower ranks (and thus should further close the gap).


Not quite enough to close the gap, but it is enough for anyone not to care. Sure human male gets 2 more ATP than Caseal (which adds around 2 damage with Just Attack Spinning Strike), but this is probably the first and only case where the ATP gain is more BS than the ATA loss.

But, yeah, if the human is using a Shadoog and it's actually hitting things and has an element mod on par with your melee weapon element, they're probably doing more damage than the Cast. I'd just wonder how they managed to fit the Shadoog in the 6 pallet spaces though.

[Zael]

Rather have more ATP and TP than more ATA :/ Sorry but Humans win at AT imo.

And attacks techs are still worth using in certain occasions. I still use Diga, Foie, and Ra-techs occasionally.

[Pillan]

On 2007-11-29 01:21, Zael wrote:
Rather have more ATP and TP than more ATA :/ Sorry but Humans win at AT imo.


It's a lot more TP for slightly less melee and ranged output. The only case where humans have more ATP is human male versus Cast female, but, as I stated, it's literally 2-3 damage more with a 50% saber and Spinning Strike. Anyway, I was hoping the Acro-race wars were done, so let's just leave it at this.

[MrNomad]

On 2007-11-29 07:48, Pillan wrote:

On 2007-11-29 01:21, Zael wrote:
Rather have more ATP and TP than more ATA :/ Sorry but Humans win at AT imo.


It's a lot more TP for slightly less melee and ranged output. The only case where humans have more ATP is human male versus Cast female, but, as I stated, it's literally 2-3 damage more with a 50% saber and Spinning Strike. Anyway, I was hoping the Acro-race wars were done, so let's just leave it at this.

To put in plain english, the difference is NOT SIGNIFICANT TO BRAG ABOUT. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-11-28 16:46, Pillan wrote:

On 2007-11-28 15:46, SolomonGrundy wrote:
Humans get a significant boost to the AT class, which may be enough to close the gap. Also, ATs get S rank whips, which have more ATP and PP than lower ranks (and thus should further close the gap).


Not quite enough to close the gap, but it is enough for anyone not to care. Sure human male gets 2 more ATP than Caseal (which adds around 2 damage with Just Attack Spinning Strike), but this is probably the first and only case where the ATP gain is more BS than the ATA loss.

But, yeah, if the human is using a Shadoog and it's actually hitting things and has an element mod on par with your melee weapon element, they're probably doing more damage than the Cast. I'd just wonder how they managed to fit the Shadoog in the 6 pallet spaces though.



If one has issues hitting things as an ATA, I pity them. the job has a very high ATA modifier.

[Kylie]

Do you want to be a support person or an attack person. I decided I wanted my beast to be attack-oriented, so I went with WT. I love it, too. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Great attack, mediocre spells, and good enough resta.

[Pillan]

On 2007-11-29 10:59, SolomonGrundy wrote:
If one has issues hitting things as an ATA, I pity them. the job has a very high ATA modifier.


If that was in reference to the higher output of Casts comment, then it's pretty much more ATP + more ATA = more damage always. If it was in reference to the Shadoog comment, I was talking about physically missing because of the 3 second intervals between the blasts and enemies being tossed around by skills within the same interval.

But, yeah, no one actually has an accuracy issue and the differences are so small that no one should really care.

[LS_Aksion]

I play a Beast WT & im just LOVING the job http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif
Even with a beast low Acc, never slowed this beast down to care lol

im not saying that WT is superior but i gotta apprecieat a teamate who uses AcroTecher for its insane quickness.
Twin Dulies pew-pew! quiclky Buff team & Enemies in a snap!

[Chaosgyro]

I'm dual classing my human between WT and AF. At first I thought about using AT as a secondary because of all the tech crossover, but the difference in playstyle wouldn't have been great enough to warrant levelling two classes. Heck, if WT got dual pistols I'd probably just scrap AF in favor of sometimes using a 1h/Shadoog palette on my WT. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[ori-chan]

Personally i see it as all preference.

I'm a FT/AT- so my techs are all pretty much 27-30 with all support over 31. I played as a WT a bit before the expansion and i swapped a little bit ago.

I prefer the AT speed with weapons and the lvl 40 buffs. Even as a newman i can sit on the front lines with a dagger or whip and deal some serious dammage while healing with the madoog. On the side note it only takes me 2 seconds to buff while i can do that in the middle of everything else while casting the occasional Gi-tech.

Wartechers are great also with a more broader weapon selection and higher meelee hits. Personally out of experience with both, i think AT has more potential than WT. Then again this also depends on the user. I've tried both as a human and a newman. Though for beasts and the cast..i'd probrably prefer WT for the sake that their Tp is quite low. As for me and my newman main, AT all the way.

[Pengfishh]

How well off are Cast Wartechers? I have been considering switching between Acrofighter and Wartecher (played Figunner and Fortefighter in vanilla, figured I'd take on two other classes here) but Wartecher is iffy for me, ya know, being a Cast and all. I'd love to play a support role; buffing or debuffing, being Resta-et-ux-Reverserbot, that sort, but I'm unsure how effective dear Elsis will be.

Those who know better, enlighten me! And I wrote up a proposed palette because I'm a big nerd. Critique that as well, would you please?

T-Mag - Dagger A (Resta, Reverser)
T-Mag - Dagger B(Resta, Reverser)
Card - Whip
Card - Whip
T-Mag - Wand (Shifta, Deband - Retier, Zodial)
Twin Daggers

[-Asheth-]

The new missions are very easy anyone who thinks AT is broken do True Darkness S2 with 3 or 4 friends. That mission right now is the only real test in the game. But gives you an idea of where you will be on the later missions when difficulty increases.

[MELGRIN]

On 2007-11-27 22:36, Zael wrote:

On 2007-11-26 09:09, StKkilo wrote:
or stay FF??? wartecher and acro = pointless with worhtless damage and no need too have one in a party. stay FF or die.


This has got to be the stupidest possible post on this topic, not including possible replies to my post.

A party of all FFs lacks support, nor a way to deal with flying and single-target, melee-resistant enemies effiently. Your slicers won't be doing shit to De Lol Re, Jarbas, Zoonas, etc. compared to what an AT could be doing to them, while keeping the other fighters at level 31+ buffs.



did i say that she should be in a party with all FF? and i wasnt aware that slicer was the only weapon a FF could use. wow good try

[Konstanse_Xx]

On 2007-12-03 06:43, MELGRIN wrote:

On 2007-11-27 22:36, Zael wrote:

On 2007-11-26 09:09, StKkilo wrote:
or stay FF??? wartecher and acro = pointless with worhtless damage and no need too have one in a party. stay FF or die.


This has got to be the stupidest possible post on this topic, not including possible replies to my post.

A party of all FFs lacks support, nor a way to deal with flying and single-target, melee-resistant enemies effiently. Your slicers won't be doing shit to De Lol Re, Jarbas, Zoonas, etc. compared to what an AT could be doing to them, while keeping the other fighters at level 31+ buffs.



did i say that she should be in a party with all FF? and i wasnt aware that slicer was the only weapon a FF could use. wow good try


Name a mission then that a WT cannot do easily. You stated that WT and AT(or if I wanted to be picky, you said "acro" so you're technically including Acrofighter too) are worthless and have pointless damage. It's a similar situation against De Rol Le when he's off the raft and flying about, all FFs have is a handgun and maybe a Slicer if he gets close enough. A Wartecher will be using Throwing Blades, a Bow, Spells, as well as a Handgun too. Same with Dimma, you have a Handgun when the WT has a Bow and Noszonde among other things to use at him while he flies about.

There is not a mission that a WT cannot be prepared for(I will not speak for AT because I haven't played them and don't plan to).

[Pillan]

On 2007-12-02 19:10, Pengfishh wrote:
How well off are Cast Wartechers? I have been considering switching between Acrofighter and Wartecher (played Figunner and Fortefighter in vanilla, figured I'd take on two other classes here) but Wartecher is iffy for me, ya know, being a Cast and all. I'd love to play a support role; buffing or debuffing, being Resta-et-ux-Reverserbot, that sort, but I'm unsure how effective dear Elsis will be.

Those who know better, enlighten me! And I wrote up a proposed palette because I'm a big nerd. Critique that as well, would you please?

T-Mag - Dagger A (Resta, Reverser)
T-Mag - Dagger B(Resta, Reverser)
Card - Whip
Card - Whip
T-Mag - Wand (Shifta, Deband - Retier, Zodial)
Twin Daggers



Personally, I don’t like playing Cast WT all that much because you’ll struggle trying to heal past 1000 with level 20 spells and you also have to deal with the reduced range. (Pre-AoI level 20 support had a larger range. And, yes, a Guntecher can heal around 1.5x as much as a Wartecher.) Of course, you can do it, but it just bothers me that it can only do so much.

Really, there’s no wrong way to do a Wartecher pallet, so that one’s fine. I’d probably replace the cards with Shadoogs since you really won’t use the offhand outside of flying mobs and bosses. Also I wouldn't double up on weapons unless you're expecting multiple enemy element types. I like to have 5 different melee weapons (3 single hand and 2 two hand) ready at any time.

[Pengfishh]

I'll give it a whirl when I get in the better position to AFK-level techs. Being a walking Dimate isn't so bad, and I could always replace buffs with debuffs considering the level 20 cap. Thanks for the informed response there, Pillan.