AotI: Ambitions Protranser gameplay thread

[panzer_unit]

I'm going to shout out for help with a new PT class thread, since a lot has changed for this job in comparison with others, along with effects and PA's of the weapon classes it uses.

Overall class strengths/weaknesses impression:

One of the main strengths of the class is having a Fortefighter's S-rank melee weapon selection (well, most of it) along with the heavy firearms of Fortegunner. I don't think this was as big a deal in PSU, grenades were pretty handy when you wanted to keep a couple large monsters pinned but lasers and shotguns were raw DPS weapons and more or less had to fight for a place on the palette along with your melee gear. Shotguns and lasers are now the same kind of ranged crowd control (for smaller targets obviously) that made grenades so awesome, along with benefiting from much lower status resistance. These weapons can account for serious damage as well, up to 2~3000 per attack depending on available targets etc... especially with the way co-ordinated fire from multiple gunners adds up so well.

While Protranser is really no match for melee damage output with a Fortefighter's huge ATP and skill cap advantage, they're not far behind the Fighter hybrids for stats... the main difference is a disadvantage on PA level cap.

Equipment selection:

Traps - it's why we're here. Protransers can use all types of trap including powerful EX types, and deal extra damage compared to other jobs on detonation.
Trap - 700? dmg + SE1
Trap G - 600x4 dmg + SE3
Trap EX - 250x... lots... dmg + SE3

Shotgun - a powerful and versatile gun. Can hold crowds of monsters back while delivering statuses, can deal massive (for a gun) damage and rapid SE at point blank. Very useful special skills debuff ATA/EVP and cause the Charm status.
(lv30 - 350x5 per shot)

Laser - more powerful than shotgun but less versatile. Much better per-hit damage and SE and the beam can penetrates enemy ranks to attack targets gathered around an ally, but the shots are more expensive and damage can't be concentrated on a single target. Special skills are of much more situational use.
(lv30 - 500 per hit? linear AOE)

Grenade - special weapon for killing large monsters. Like melee attacks, these can hit multiple target points on a single creature. Grenades blow away small/medium targets and knock down or at least cause a stagger for most large ones. Regular elements can inflict damage and freeze SE's quite well on large monsters. The special skills are automatic freeze, and heavy damage in exchange for HP
(lv30 - 500x4 per attack)

Bow - works well as a large monster or boss-killing tool, where the higher SE level, range, and defense penetration prove helpful. Normally even a handgun will outdamage and outstatus a bow.
(lv30 - 800 per attack)

Handgun & Saber - everyone else gets handguns as a left-hand option. Nobody else JUST gets handguns as a left-hand option except Fortefighter. They're not tremendously powerful, but the low PP consumption, stagger now, and high SE level make a very effective tag-team with Saber PAs for quick crowd control against dangerous melee opponents (rising strike), or heavy single/multi target damage (spinning/gravity strike).
(lv30 handgun - 450 per attack
rising strike - 1000x4, 1500x4
spinning strike - 1500x2, 2500x2
gravity strike - IDK)

Axe - axes are slow and weak on the regular attack but recharge enormous amounts of PP, especially on criticals... and their PA attacks are devastating for damage output and knockbacks.
(anga redda - 1500x4, 1500x4, 4500x2
anga dugrega - 2000x2, 2500x2, 3000x4
anga jabroga - 2500x10)

Knuckles - fast and highly accurate weapons, featuring high hit counts, damage modifiers, and plenty of crowd control from launch or knockback. Like Axes they've got some nice PP regen. Chaining the normal attack combo is enough to allow one or two moves from your PA.
(bogga danga - 800x6, 1200x4, 2000x6
bogga zubba - 1500x8
bogga robado - 1300x4, 1100x4, 1500x8 @ lv21)

Sword - swords hit 3 targets in an arc on their basic melee attack, allowing for high damage output and fast PP recharge. Their PA combinations are quick and consist of powerful single attacks for area sweeps, single- and multi-target damage.
(tornado break - 1000x4, 1100x4, 1200x4
spinning break - 1200x4, 1800x2, 1500x4
gravity break - 3000x2, 2500x2, 3500x2)

Spear - spears are a fast and accurate melee weapon. Regular attacks hit 2 targets in a line. PA attacks are nicely varied, energy-efficient, and deal significant multi-hit damage.
(dus daggas - IDK
dus robado - IDK
dus majjara - IDK)

Gameplay (needs input):

gunning vs fighting - I mostly shoot. In order to level all those bullets, I'm always looking for an excuse to shoot things.
Incapacitation effects (freeze, sleep, shock, silence) are quickly becoming my forte since they can be followed up with melee damage that pretty much puts damaging statuses to shame.
On pure guns offense against something, proper element and/or damaging statuses are probably more effective. The shooting itself provides enough stagger or knockdown for team support.

saving time/money with traps - see Rizen's post following this for the lowdown on trap synthesis.
Virus and Virus G traps are great for free damage when solo, but your own attacks with almost anything will beat them out for damage rate.
Burn EX I don't use much any more. Raw EX trap damage can be useful, and the burn status adds even more, but the same as Virus traps your own weapon output is far higher than DOT statuses. Using Freeze and Stun EX to stop enemy attacks and create an opportunity for your own works far better.
Detonating 2 EX traps of any sort against a couple of large targets makes for some significant damage output as well.

managing palettes - it helps to focus on a small number of traps in any given run to free up room for other consumables.
Shotgun and Laser are best when paired on your palette because of the criss-cross AOE's. When targets are arranged badly for one, they're perfect for the other.
Bow and Handgun, I see little reason to have both on the palette at once. IMO handgun is superior in normal circumstances once you have SE3.
Melee weapons - choose based on access to useful PA's for the circumstances. Knuckles and Axes are capable of maintaining their PP without forcing you to use too many regular attacks... while Sword, Spear, and Saber tend to burn out.

helping your team - remember that Protransers are biased towards gunning now. Top-tier fighter hybrids have more to offer for melee damage, and less in terms of ranged support. When things are going really quickly in a large team you might want to pass on cycling weapons for every group of enemies in favor of laser, shotgun, or your favorite melee weapon.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-01-10 08:11 ]</font>

[Rizen]

Nice to see a PT getting started. We needed one. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Right now, Im kinda busy, but I can pull some money saving numbers from my other post to contribute

Instead of buying traps, why not make them? They are very cheap and efficient.

Shop Prices

Normal Traps:
Damage Traps - 50
Burning Traps - 75
Freeze Traps - 60
Poison Traps - 70
Confusion Traps - 60
Sleep Traps - 60
Virus Traps - 80
Shock Traps - 60
Silence Traps - 60
(Fireworks?) - 50

G Traps:
Damage G Traps - 300
Burning G Traps - 450
Freeze G Traps - 350
Poison G Traps - 400
Confusion G Traps - 350
Sleep G Traps - 350
Virus G Traps - 500
Shock G Traps - 350
Silence G Traps - 350

EX Traps:
Burning EX Traps - 600
Freeze EX Traps - 600 or 10 Bronze Casino Coins

Trap Synthesis:

Normal Trap Board [10 uses(?)] (10 meseta)
Trans Acid x1 (50 meseta)
{N} Berry x1 (50 meseta) || {N} Truffle (NA)
=================================
Unit Price: ~101 meseta per Trap
=================================

Trap G Board [5 uses(?)] (100 meseta)
Metho Acid x1 (100 meseta)
{N} Berry x1 (50 meseta) || {N} Truffle (NA)
=================================
Unit Price: ~160 meseta per Trap
=================================

Trap EX Board [10 uses] (300 meseta)
Ether Acid x1 (200 meseta)
{N} Berry x1 (50 meseta) || {N} Truffle (NA)
=================================
Unit Price: ~280 meseta per Trap
=================================

(NA) means Not Available at NPC
~ means About
(?) means I didn't try yet. XD
{N} means certain name

Type of Berry/Truffle needed:
Burn= Hot Berry
Freeze= Cold Berry
Damage = Bitter Berry
Poison = Poison Truffle
Confusion = Moatoob Truffle
Sleep = Sweet Berry
Virus = Rotten Truffle
Shock = Stamina Berry
Silence = Mad Truffle

The lowdown on EX Traps
Exclusive to Protransers.
Detonated like a G Trap.
Can Set off two at a time.
Causes Area of Effect damage for 8 seconds.
Can not switch out of Ex Trap or the effect goes away.
Damage occurs about every half a second.
Can hit multiple targets of an enemy.
Each hit applies associated Status Effect(?).
Stacks in 10s.
Damage increases with level.

[panzer_unit]

My palette for most of Dual Sentinel S2 last night:

trimate
antimate
sol atomizer
moon atomizer x
virus G (hello stateria) - would be Freeze EX in a party with lots more fighters
photon charge

Dark Axe (jabroga, VERY effective on Stateria & Ragnus)
Bow (fire, burnin mizura and polas)
Earth Axe (redda, polas & volfus)
Handgun (ice, freezin' Jarbas) + Dark Saber (spinning strike owns Golmoros)
Shotgun (ice, badira/volfu killer)
Laser (phantasm, badira/volfu/mizura killer)

From fighting a lot of Polahorvas and Stateria recently: never underestimate a PA that gets off to a strong start compared to those that have epic final hits. Sometimes the first move (two if you're lucky) is all the PA you're going to get a chance to do.

[amtalx]

I'm seriously looking into Protranser now that ST elbow-dropped the easy button for AoI. It seems like one of the only classes left that requires some strategy to be effective. My fG days have earned me a full complement of leveled bullets usable by Protransers, so thats not an issue. Any recommendations for melee skills?

[panzer_unit]

Hmm.

I've been using my axes a LOT recently. They're very good with the new gameplay and PA stats:
Anga Dugrega ***** (strong utility to start, and a MASSIVE finishing move),
Anga Redda **** (steadier damage output, levels like crazy),
Anga Jabroga *** (situational, awesome though)

Sabers are your only one-handed melee weapon. You need to be good with them.
Rising Strike **** (fast and useful),
Spinning Strike **** (OMG POWER),
Gravity Strike *** (fantastic in ideal circumstances)

Knuckles:
Bogga Zubba **** (PT's best launcher move),
Bogga Robado *** (good power, 1x4 hit starter, sorta expensive),
Bogga Danga ** (you'll love or hate this for the odd moves it has)

Swords:
Tornado Break ***** (a must-have IMO),
Gravity Break ** (it's slow to JA the first move, which is the one you really want to put power into),
Spinning Break *** (very quick PA with a strong final hit, low typical output for the cost though)

Spears: don't have any PA's for this on me.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-11-27 11:40 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

I was doing Grove S2 with some friends last night... Anga Jabroga is AWESOME against newman techers and the blue caster robots. They can't knock you out of it, and you'll catch a couple for hideous damage. No getting blown up by exploding bots either.

On the other hand those brown bots were like "OMG MUST STOP PANZER UNIT" and use their physical attack (with juggle and stun) about 10x more often than I've ever seen them attempt it before.

Note about EX traps: they'll only affect 2 large targets at a time. I was dropping Freeze EX on the three stateria at the end of Sleeping Warriors, 2 would get icecubed and those pretty streams of damage numbers while one was free to mess up the fighters. Same deal with Burn EX against the many triple-spawns of Drua Gohra in Tunnel Recapture.

EDIT: looks like the 2-large-target EX trap thing has been fixed. You can shut down all three svaltuses at the end of Sleeping Warriors if you feel like it FTW.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-12-06 12:09 ]</font>

[amtalx]

On 2007-11-30 07:27, panzer_unit wrote:
Note about EX traps: they'll only affect 2 large targets at a time. I was dropping Freeze EX on the three stateria at the end of Sleeping Warriors, 2 would get icecubed and those pretty streams of damage numbers while one was free to mess up the fighters. Same deal with Burn EX against the many triple-spawns of Drua Gohra in Tunnel Recapture.



I call bullshyt on that. That sucks.

[panzer_unit]

On the one hand, yeah.

On the other, why can't I shock large monsters with my bow so they never get a chance to attack? How come instant kill doesn't work on bosses? A freeze EX trap (with a handful of fighters handy) is basically a free ride against anything up to and including 2 minibosses... if ST wants to draw the line at the super-rare three-miniboss fights and say "ok this is supposed to be some work" they can go ahead IMO.

[amtalx]

I say take the silly target limit off of EX traps and give us Lvl 150 enemies. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif It's bad when I can doze off amidst a mob of Lvl 100 creatures and not worry about dying (happened last night).

[panzer_unit]

... they'd need to nerf the traps again once character levels caught up. May as well make 'em work "right" from the start.

Sega needs to dump MORE enemies into missions instead of bumping the game back down to sandpapering through a couple guys at a time. If they're not going to run us out of mates, they should go for photon charges.

[InfiniDragon]

I just switched over to PT, absolutely loving the class.

I typically use my Sword as a main offense, with Shotgun for status effects, Nades for large targets, Bow for long range and Laser for crowds, though I will often just use a Burn EX if there's a lot of them.

On PAs, I think Grav Break is a nice choice as far as Swords go. Tornado is good but we have a zillion other options for crowds, and Spinning is tough to hit smaller targets with. As for the timing on the JA, I find the second hit of the normal attack is a really easy leadoff into Grav JA, with a non-JA 2nd hit (since the second is slow like tortoise to JA).

[amtalx]

I wouldn't have a problem with enemy levels exceeding whatever the final player character cap is. Meaning Lvl 250 creatures and Lvl 200 PCs would be cool. If fighting enemies that are close to our level at 200 is anything like fighting ~100 enemies now...this is going to suck. As far as I'm concerned there should ALWAYS be at lease a few missions where the enemy level exceeds the current cap. If Lvl 70 players can roll into a mission with 90+ creatures, why can't a Lvl 100 have a mission with 120+? Why do all the mid-levled characters get to have all the fun?

[panzer_unit]

BTW I edited in what I think my average damage is for a lot of attacks. The problem is that they may or may not factor in the same amount of shifta, the levels aren't all exactly 30 for bullets, etc.

Any contributions from other PT's at about 100/10 protransers with level 30-ish skills would be appreciated.

[biggabertha]

I'm a male, human Protranser at job Lv. 11, character Lv. 103 with around 1000 ATP and 330 ATA, my damage doesn't come close to the figures you've got there but that's probably due to my equipment. (Except for the Axe damage for Anga Redda is the same, I'm using an Ank Pikor 28% Dark (0) against Adahna Deghana in Grove of Fanatics S and the last hit of the combo in a Just attack hits for 4000 on both hits.)

All of my elemental Shotgun bullets (and Barada Maga) and all of my Longbow bullets (save for Reisei-Sou and Raisei-Sou) are at Lv. 30 but I deal around about the same damage as you've got down there {maybe +/- 50 damage on the Shotgun with Shigga Bines (1)}.

Err.... With my Gur Bazga (0), Lv. 26 Boma Riga bullet, I can hit De Ragan S2 for around 550 per hit but I hit Jarbas with Boma Banga Lv. 25 for around 400-450 each. My elemental Handgun bullets are all between Lv. 22 and Lv. 27 and against the right element, they deal around 300 per shot with my Viper (0). Mayalee Hit Lv. 26 hits for around 280 a hit I think...

Plasma Prism Lv. 16 hits electric enemies in Labs S2 for 300-400 damage in my Meteor Cannon (0) and Mayalee Prism Lv. 18 hits for around the same when I used it against the Badira there.

I'd have to get back to you on the exact figures though, I haven't payed that much attention to the numbers except for Anga Redda just because I've never dealt over 2000 before! Let alone 4000!!!

My Burn EX traps hit for 233 on non-ranged resistant enemies and I could swear that my Virus Gs physically hit Lv. 80+ Vanda Merhas for 435 damage a hit but again, I'd have to check that. I know I've scored around 600 a hit with Damage Gs though, I just can't remember where... but this was before the patch and I may have just remembered what I wanted to remember... n.n;;;;;

[panzer_unit]

The biggest per-hit trap damage I've ever noticed was regular Virus trap on a Svaltus while soloing neudaiz relics a while (like quite a while) ago... which was the 700. I wonder what regular damage traps do now?

The numbers I put down aren't exact in terms of laboratory conditions, they're just what I see when I'm playing. Setting up laboratory conditions and doing rigorous testing is too much work. I've never got less than SE2 shifta going from Agatride, but my melee numbers are probably based on SE3 shifta, because I melee a lot more when there's a techer on the team... they'll do range damage, heal, and provide a bigger attack buff... I'll steamroll stuff with my axe/saber/knuckles/etc and make sure everything's knocked down or dead.

[LS_Aksion]

1st things' 1st, Yo Jagd! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif
Gotta love the EX Fire traps, causes a show of Firestorm-Fireworks & world of Slow-down for PS2 users DOH xDD

[AC9breaker]

Man I can't wait to get back into the game. I don't see any drawbacks to being PT. Back in vanilla psu we had inferior stats, and horrible PP consumption. Just attack solves our PP consumption and although our starts are not the best, they're not something that could easily be shrugged off when you think about the versatility of a Protranser. I was actually wondering though has anyone tried seriously using an HPC arm unit as a protranser lately? I was wondering on its effectiveness in comparison to other +atp units on PT.

[panzer_unit]

It depends on what weapons you're using... HPC would kick ass if you stuck to shotguns and knuckles for maximum effect. Shotguns just take a while to tap out. You'd burn charges but not THAT badly. Knuckles are pretty solid for PP regain, I think you would break even by cycling through the full normal attack combo (~30PP regain) and then the first move of Bogga Robado (~30PP spend)

Using higher-burn weapons a lot, it's probably not worthwhile. I pop charges as it is on just about everything else.

Right now I'm equipping Tero/Hit, 'cause it's the biggest arm unit I've got ATM.

[HFlowen]

I used to use an HPC several months ago. The PP drain was pretty tough, but i can't imagine what it would be like with things likes gravity break.

After that I tried using an SPS when the duel in the ruins mission came out. I started seeing my grenade miss about half the time on the de ragnus, so i gave that up.

Now I use a serafi senba + solid/knight. All good. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HFlowen on 2007-12-04 08:13 ]</font>

[InfiniDragon]

I was wondering about the Ultimate Bullet PAs, any particularly good ones I should pick up that help out a PT? I was considering the Shotgun PA, but I figured I'd ask here first.

[IsoDonk]

Hello!

So far, some pretty good advice although I really disagree with the 'bad rating' for Bogga Danga - for me it makes the knuckles into a really mobile weapon and the third PA 'sproing' is really handy for veering off and blowing a few dangerous enemies away at short notice. Also if you're focusing on one enemy, Danga is a great way of making sure that you can keep up with them with the constant forward movements.

I have the Ultimate Shotgun PA - Barada Maga, the EVP/ATA debuff one. The damage on it isn't great and it's very expensive compared to your normal shotgun bullets, and at the moment to be honest it isn't really that useful with the speed everything is dying http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

I found it a great help ten levels ago just pre-expansion though, so hopefully when we get some harder missions it will come into its own.

My ultimate PA roster consists of Barada Maga, Boma Duranga and Dus Majarra. I'd quite like Gravity Break but those three serve me well (other than the aforementioned Maga problem). Boma Duranga is immense if you have a healer in your party - it destroys dragons and most other multi-hit enemies in no time at all.

[panzer_unit]

I like Bogga Danga a lot too, you can do some really awesome stuff with it... but you don't get a lot of situations to set up that awesome final move for max damage, and the first move's generally a lot less damaging than Bogga Robado now.

For frag PA's I've got -
Barada Maga (***** for hard missions, PT is cutting it really close for ATA on a lot of attacks now)
Barada Chamga (***** for supporting fighters)
Spinning Strike (**** awesome damage under a lot of circumstances)
Bogga Robado (**** knuckles are a great weapon type, this PA has strong and cheap single-target damage to start and goes into some nice crowd control)
Boma Duranga (*** hard to use without support, I mostly have it for soloing with Fortegunner where I don't want to melee bullet resistant targets. Dealing only half damage knocks the reflected damage down to something I can handle solo. Mostly I use burn or virus grenades, the damage modifiers on elemental attacks are pretty awesome.)
Phantasm Prism (*** it's probably better than any individual elemental laser PA, the Sleep SE goes off a lot and immobilizes mobs to make grouping monsters in the AOE a little easier. Still trying to get mine to 31 for SE3)
Anga Jabroga (*** pretty situational now that both axe PA's beat the pants off it for damage on 1-2 targets)
Gravity Break (*** I don't know how much I like this one any more, it's a lot like Bogga Robado but faster... the 70% ATA really hurts though)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-12-06 07:44 ]</font>

[SolRiver]

On 2007-11-30 07:27, panzer_unit wrote:
Note about EX traps: they'll only affect 2 large targets at a time. I was dropping Freeze EX on the three stateria at the end of Sleeping Warriors, 2 would get icecubed and those pretty streams of damage numbers while one was free to mess up the fighters. Same deal with Burn EX against the many triple-spawns of Drua Gohra in Tunnel Recapture.



I didn't find this exactly true. 3 Large monsters can defintely be effected by Ex trap, however the ex trap got a limit of how many they can hit. Both Drua Gohra and Stateria had more hit spots than most other large monsters such as Bil De Vear and Gainozeros alike.

According to your information, I am assuming that EX trap have a max of 6 hit spot AoE. I don't really know as I really don't see 6 monsters spawn at a time ever. I do know however, is that I can effect 3 Dilnazen with freeze EX at the same time.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolRiver on 2007-12-06 08:57 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

Dilnazens are big, but they're not BIG like multi-target. They might be affected differently.

Actually, I think I froze 3 stateria last night with an EX. I'll have to confirm that some time... the limitation may have been fixed in the ninja update last week that gave axe its awesome first-attack knockdown.

[IsoDonk]

I have hit three Svaltus with a Freeze Trap EX - only tried it a couple of times, but it seemed to work ok. They kept breaking out of the freeze really quickly and were getting consistently re-frozen.

It might have something to do with the amount of hit spots an enemy has - and their proximity to the centre of the trap. I don't know if the traps are 'intelligent' enough to spread their load across more enemies or if they spend their time damaging whatever is closest rather than whatever is most useful.

[SolRiver]

Tested the freeze ex traps today, the result being that it can only hit 5 targets at once. As for the target priority, I think it outer > inner; not sure, would need to test more to know.

[panzer_unit]

I pumped my Ensei-sou skill to 31 a couple nights ago for the element and 5% ATP boost. With buffs last night I was dealing 995 damage per hit to De Rol Le with my Longboc+9... awesome. Slow rate of fire or not, people go WTF when they see a 1500HP critical on a flying target.

Has anyone got Chousei-sou at a good level? What's the damage like compared to elemental bow now that element seems to count for a lot less?

EDIT: according to JP wiki the damage mod didn't get boosted. Chousei's got the same ATP as Fire, Earth, and Dark.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-12-07 08:11 ]</font>

[SolRiver]

According to JP wiki

lv40 Chousei-sou: 210% atp 120% ata, longer range, slower fire rate
lv40 fire: 195% atp, 72% ata, 38% fire, burn lv4

The elemental are still superior aside de rol le fight due to range.

I was planning to get chousei just to try it out, but I have a feeling that I will regret it... So, I am holding back for now, maybe an AotI PA will come out to finally give bow a good PA frag usage.

I remember them saying that elemental damage still do close to the same damage as before at high level; they just changed that if you have same element as target, your damage won't be reduced as much.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolRiver on 2007-12-07 08:31 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

I think Chousei-sou's range would help with a lot of bosses, which is probably my major use for bows... Magas, Onma, Dimmo, airborne dragons. You wouldn't have to move AT ALL to keep pegging those things as they fly around doing their thing. Would it make up for the lower rate of fire? Maybe. For what it's worth, the JP wiki seems to say that element skills for bow reload slower at lv11 and lv21.

I was regretting using Phantasm Prism for laser when all the element shots got their AOI mods but it's really pretty good even compared to a full set of element skills. The combination of an immobilizing SE + strong damage mod + ATA advantage might make up for some damage versus elemental skills, and I've only got to level one skill instead of 6.

[biggabertha]

I've got Chousei-SOu and running it parrallel with Reisei-Sou for range under Lv. 10 (my wartecher), Chousei-Sou roughly has three steps of extra range. These three steps are steps if you hold the strafing button (L1 for PS2) but my character is the tallest he can be so it may be a bit different with smaller characters. Either way, now with Wartecher's Lv. 20 bullets, I'll try seeing the range difference at Lv. 11 and if it goes up anymore after that.

(I've also noticed how the damage for Chousei-Sou has increased by 20% for the attack modifier, I've been recording all the stat modifiers for all of the PA fragment PAs that I have from Lv. 1. I ought to submit them sometime when I get them to a decent level)

[SolRiver]

I think I will get a solid power S before I get chousei-sou... That is one of the only pa that allow huge cut on ATA.

[60Hz]

Was wondering about the JA, JC bonus for PTs... i remember reading someone say that PT crits are higher than the other classes, not chances but the actual damage. If this is true are our JA/C giving us a bigger bonus? I haven't had the time to do some tests... was just wondering...

[panzer_unit]

Our crits are 150% damage same as always... the boosted critical rate still counts for a lot when shooting though (e.g. bow for 1500 :] )

[biggabertha]

This feels like some sort of complaint but I thought I'd share it with you all anyway but does anyone feel that Protransers have become slightly less special now? We deal a LOT more damage now with everything, we can take some solid hits moreso than we could before and we've got access to a highly effective means of crowd suppression through our traps. Not only that, we've also got all of our weapons at S rank level which will surely attract several new players to the class.

Missions that used to take me an hour to solo now only takes me twenty minutes or half an hour, I feel somewhat "too powerful" now with PAs such as Anga Dugrega, Plasma Prism, Burning Hit or even Rising Strike. Lay a Freeze EX trap down against a tightly packed mass of large enemies and all of a sudden, your party is using their most powerful PAs without any interruption just because the enemies are being re-frozen over and over again.

Have Protransers now become an easy class to play with instead of the hard determination (Shotgun-toting Protranser) playstyle we used to have to adopt to? Or am I just getting too old and whiney about it? Maybe I should go Dus Majillion a few things to clear my head...

[panzer_unit]

Protranser's definitely ahead of the curve for classes now... decent stats, 2 jobs' worth of S ranks, exclusive traps and trap vision. It solos missions like a dream.

If anything makes it exclusive, it's the weapon classes. There's not a lot of "bread and butter" equipment that every other job leans on. PT has all of knuckle, spear, and saber among commonly-used weapons. No mags, no mechs / crossbows / cards / twin handguns... no daggers / slicers. There aren't a lot of players who are comfortable just using the heavy support gear we carry.

[InfiniDragon]

I love all the heavy gear myself. All of it just has a time and a place to be used (saber/sword/shotty for general combat, nades for large targets, laser cannons for status craziness, etc.), so you feel ready to handle any situation with it. Only thing I don't like about us getting heavy weps is that it includes spears, and that includes PT into the "Dus Haxarra" crowd. But, I personally don't even use that PA, and I do just fine.

[SolomonGrundy]

there are problems with PT.

Shotguns and grnenades love ATA, and PTs ATA, while not bad for a fighting type, could use some beefing up as a gunner type.

(on the flipside, PTs have a 1.2 modifier to ATP at job level 15, and Fortegunner's have a 1.3 modifier, and GT's only a 1.07 mod)

On the Melee side, the ATP is pretty lacking, you can make up for this by using a cati power, or HPC, but see above with the need for ATA. Your best bet right now seems to be solid/knight.

Defensively, PTs are still a mess. lower DFP than ranger types (.9 modifier compared to 1.00 for Fortegunners), lower EVP than every job but fortefighter, they really depend on good % armor, and thier own HP to keep them out of trouble. not being able to use Stormline does not help either. MST is non-caster

(on the flip side, they have a better HP modifier fortegunner, thich is nice)

Post AoI, as pre AoI, they are extremely part friendly. When it comes to soloing though, I tend to use Acrofighter, for it's speed/slicer cheese/improved base stats (and access to Stormline)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-12-18 10:08 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-12-14 10:18, SolomonGrundy wrote:
there are problems with PT.

Shotguns and grnenades love ATA, and PTs ATA, while not bad for a fighting type, could use some beefing up as a gunner type.
...
On the Melee side, the ATP is pretty lacking, you can make up for this by using a cati power, or HPC, but see above with the need for ATA. Your best bet right now seems to be solid/knight.

Defensively, PTs are still a mess.

In perspective for soloing or doing their jobs effectively, I think PT has fine stats for S-rank missions right now. I can feel the bite of low ATA if I use Longboc (my boss-killer bow) instead of Hanmateric (my status-effect bow) for regular mission targets... it'll blow bubbles for a while now and again. On shotgun and grenades, missing isn't a big problem at all. If it ever is, the Barada Maga shotgun PA has SICK stats now. With lots of room to grow still, mine's got 140+% ATP and 110+% ATA. So normal gun damage, ZOMG double the ATA of normal bullets, and ATA/EVP debuff up to SE3 on top of that.

In competition with other jobs for effectiveness... Protranser's always been an end-game class. They take more time investment before matching other jobs. That was just rank 10 and level 30 PA's in PSU... S-rank weapons weren't sufficiently obtainable before, and 9*+10 were a match for stats anyhow. Now, I think you've got to take their S-rank weapon access into account. 11* or better equipment will close the statistical gaps with Fighgunner and Guntecher on major tools of the trade like knuckles, spears, swords, lasers, and shotguns.

Defense? I forgot to equip a line shield for 3 days and didn't notice. HP's the only stat that makes a big difference IMO.

[Jarek]

Here's a random question about burn EX traps.
I've been playing offline lately, and yesterday I busted out a burn EX. Then I noticed that the enemies I used it on kept taking the trap's damage, but were not taking any burn damage, since the burn status kept reapplying before the enemies actually..burned.
Have they always been like this, and I'm just too dense to have noticed? I thought it was trap damage + they kept burning throughout the duration of the trap and after the trap has ended. But after yesterday I guess it's just trap damage + burn damage after trap has finished.

Unless offline is different.

[panzer_unit]

It's like that online too... the burn status keeps getting re-applied, meaning it never has time to actually inflict damage. It's incredibly handy for Freeze EX traps however. Your team can hit the enemies as hard as they want and the things just keep icing over.

[SolRiver]

On 2007-12-14 11:54, panzer_unit wrote:
Defense? I forgot to equip a line shield for 3 days and didn't notice. HP's the only stat that makes a big difference IMO.



lol, I did the same thing just awhile ago... except I was a female newman fortetecher, and I still didn't notice a difference being in S rank mission on a minimum level (found out only after I was shopping around and thinking what unit I should put on my armor).

Maybe newman get hit so hard, that it doesn't really matter either way.

[Jarek]

On 2007-12-14 12:26, panzer_unit wrote:
It's like that online too... the burn status keeps getting re-applied, meaning it never has time to actually inflict damage. It's incredibly handy for Freeze EX traps however. Your team can hit the enemies as hard as they want and the things just keep icing over.


I see..that kind of makes me wonder how much value a Burn EX really has. DPS wise, would it be faster to just drop a Burn G, then switch to a weapon and wail away? I guess it really depends..if you could drop 2 Burn EX and consistently hit the max number of targets, that would put out a lot of hurt.
About the Freeze EX, yeah. I can definitely see those being useful to a party. This brings me to another question though. Offline actually has Stun trap EX, and yeah, they keep reapplying stun. But would stun really have any advantage over freeze? I've been trying to think of a situation where it would, but I can't really come up with any.

[biggabertha]

I don't think stun can be "knocked out of" at all and relies completely on a timer of something like four or five, maybe even six seconds. Burn EX pushes enemies out of it's hit zone which allows other enemies to come into the hit zone so this'd work the same for Stun EX. You stun everything in the initial blast zone, put the Stun EX between you and other moving creatures and then you get all the creatures that can be stunned, stunned.

Freeze EX though, relies on everything staying inside of the blast zone but since you just get re-frozen the moment you burst out of freeze, you can't push enemies out of the area. This is most annoying when there are four mini-bosses altogether and your trap is only hitting three of them.

[biggabertha]

Sorry..

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: biggabertha on 2007-12-15 07:31 ]</font>

[biggabertha]

Sorry...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: biggabertha on 2007-12-15 07:31 ]</font>

[IsoDonk]

Just in case anyone hadn't noticed, [B] Stun Trap EX is now available from the synth shop on the colony.

1x Stamina Berry
1x Ether Acid

Still not as good as Freeze Traps though. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[soolayah]

Freeze Trap Ex's are also available readymade now. 8D

[Aviendha]

On 2007-12-14 11:54, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-12-14 10:18, SolomonGrundy wrote:
there are problems with PT.

Shotguns and grnenades love ATA, and PTs ATA, while not bad for a fighting type, could use some beefing up as a gunner type.
...
On the Melee side, the ATP is pretty lacking, you can make up for this by using a cati power, or HPC, but see above with the need for ATA. Your best bet right now seems to be solid/knight.

Defensively, PTs are still a mess.

In perspective for soloing or doing their jobs effectively, I think PT has fine stats for S-rank missions right now. I can feel the bite of low ATA if I use Longboc (my boss-killer bow) instead of Hanmateric (my status-effect bow) for regular mission targets... it'll blow bubbles for a while now and again. On shotgun and grenades, missing isn't a big problem at all. If it ever is, the Barada Maga shotgun PA has SICK stats now. With lots of room to grow still, mine's got 140+% ATP and 110+% ATA. So normal gun damage, ZOMG double the ATA of normal bullets, and ATA/EVP debuff up to SE3 on top of that.

In competition with other jobs for effectiveness... Protranser's always been an end-game class. They take more time investment before matching other jobs. That was just rank 10 and level 30 PA's in PSU... S-rank weapons weren't sufficiently obtainable before, and 9*+10 were a match for stats anyhow. Now, I think you've got to take their S-rank weapon access into account. 11* or better equipment will close the statistical gaps with Fighgunner and Guntecher on major tools of the trade like knuckles, spears, swords, lasers, and shotguns.

Defense? I forgot to equip a line shield for 3 days and didn't notice. HP's the only stat that makes a big difference IMO.


PT has enough ATA/DEF because everyone is way overleveled. Barada Maga is going to be much more important once we get missions that are actually challenging. The versatility of PT isn't a huge benefit right now either because everything dies so fast. Once SE starts to matter again though, PT versatility will be very nice.

[Xencia]

And the addition of easily available Freeze EX changes EVERYTHING. Just did a couple missions...it made me just the crowd control expert. Any annoying enemy at all is just no problem now,1 application of Freeze EX and the party can go berserk on em with no fear of retaliation for a while. Still have Burn EX for the fun of massive number spam on big crowds,but Freeze adds a whole new dimension to the rest. Add in Mayalee Prism and Grenade corner lock and my PT was just great for crowd control options. Freeze made it alot funner,and having a much bigger EX trap reserve makes me feel alot less worried about running out. Stun EX will just increase my CC reserve when they add them to the merchant.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Xencia on 2007-12-15 15:30 ]</font>

[biggabertha]

It's also nice to know that Freeze EXs are available to Vanilla players as well. I was very happy with them when my friend got a hold of 10 of them for me to try out and I used them only in the rarest of occurrences where things were very dangerous such as groups of Gaozarans flinging their Foie left right and centre.

Now, who else wants to see how insane Damage EX traps could be?

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-12-15 13:50, Aviendha wrote:
The versatility of PT isn't a huge benefit right now either because everything dies so fast. Once SE starts to matter again though, PT versatility will be very nice.


Try running solo/duo on missions, there are plenty of opportunities to get an advantage out of that flexibility. In general I find bow / shotgun / laser / grenade much more effective for dealing with really large fights on my own, melee's rough enough just going one-on-one with targets before considering additional damage and interruption from getting blind-sided. Nothing takes on 3 drua gohras as easily as a high-level DOT grenade.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-12-18 09:33, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-12-15 13:50, Aviendha wrote:
The versatility of PT isn't a huge benefit right now either because everything dies so fast. Once SE starts to matter again though, PT versatility will be very nice.


Try running solo/duo on missions, there are plenty of opportunities to get an advantage out of that flexibility. In general I find bow / shotgun / laser / grenade much more effective for dealing with really large fights on my own, melee's rough enough just going one-on-one with targets before considering additional damage and interruption from getting blind-sided. Nothing takes on 3 drua gohras as easily as a high-level DOT grenade.



Any Beast Form
Several of the SUVs (I'm thinking of the stun SUV, but the DFP down works too)

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

How often do you run into 3+ Drua Gohra?

side note: that sucks about the burn not actually burning , due to reapplication. What a waste. Freeze and stun are still pretty great though.

And with regard to S rank weapons - only the melee ones seem to help, the S rank ranged weapons don't solve ATA issues. Also the EVP down shotgun is wonderful, but the elemental advantage of shotguns is now pretty high, right? Has anyone done any number crunching to see what the damage difference is?

Finally - Armor does make a difference.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-12-18 10:06, SolomonGrundy wrote:
Any Beast Form
Several of the SUVs (I'm thinking of the stun SUV, but the DFP down works too)

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

How often do you run into 3+ Drua Gohra?
...
And with regard to S rank weapons - only the melee ones seem to help, the S rank ranged weapons don't solve ATA issues. Also the EVP down shotgun is wonderful, but the elemental advantage of shotguns is now pretty high, right? Has anyone done any number crunching to see what the damage difference is?


Nobody likes a smartass :| Well, ok maybe some people. Point taken. A lot of PT's are human/newman... they only get their tanks and summons at level 200. Allegedly.

I run into 3+ Drua lots... or 3 Gainzeroses... or 3 Svaltuses or 3 Grinna Bete. Even more often you'll get 2 larget targets with a couple small guys running interference with the sole purpose in life being pwning you with tech attacks whenever you stand still, or screwing up your PAs so that the big guy can get up and hit you with something ridiculous. Grenades give you all the knockdown of melee, and keep enough reach that you can run whenever you see trouble coming. Probably you've also got a shot still hanging in the air, that will trip some of your attackers and buy time to launch another attack.

The differences between 9* and 11* for both shotguns and lasers are ~55 ATA. That's not putting us ahead of Guntecher, but it wouldn't be fair since we get ATP advantage from both class and weapon rank.

Unless you intend to get ALL your shotgun bullets to 31+, you might just want to start working on Barada Maga. Especially true since you'll want the SE from Barada Maga anyway.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-12-18 11:01 ]</font>

[Aviendha]

Sure, SE is handy solo, I was talking about party play, where burn/infection are almost pointless. Freeze/Shock is probably the only SE I would bother trying to inflict with Shotty/Laser in a party, but that's what Freeze/Stun EX traps are for. =P So for now elemental advantage ftw. Speaking of lasers, why isn't anyone using them now that they rock?

[panzer_unit]

Infection's been pointless on teams for a long time. I'd say it's a toss-up between element advantage and incapacitation for bullet SE's on a team, neither is going to make an enormous difference. Really all that matters is the weapon type giving you the right AOE for staggering as many targets as possible.

A lot of Fortegunners probably didn't bother with lasers when they sucked, and now that they've got such a skill gap between shotgun & grenade vs laser maybe they're not really inclined to level new bullets from scratch or they're doing it solo until they hit 21+ with full ATA and everything. I'm glad I had a decently leveled Phantasm Prism to start with in AOI.

If there's one skill I wish I'd pushed a lot harder now, it's Barada Maga. It's perfect for running in teams where monsters are dropping like flies. It does real shotgun damage, and the SE sticks immedately (even on mini-bosses) with an ok effect on both offense and defense over a creature's short sad life. Freeze and Shock don't proc fast enough or really matter much when you've got gunners, whippers, and super-damage melee PA's all going off. With Maga at least there's a chance that you're responsible for some of the evades or 3k damage melee hits you see.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-12-18 13:26 ]</font>

[biggabertha]

Barada Maga's incredibly awesome in a lot of situations. By trying to make sure every single enemy gets hit by a Zoldeel effect levels this bullet so well, I've got it to Lv. 32 from Lv. 30 by just playing in a few team games spread over a week. It levels SO much faster after you get it to Lv. 31 and gets a nice attack and accuracy boost. It's my favourite Shotgun PA because it actually has a drawback; the cost.

Barada Chamga's pretty awesome too, nothing like drawing five or so enemies away from the Force, switching to a Freeze G/EX or a Silence G trap to hold them all in place while the Force goes insane with Arcane Explosion Ultima Gi TECHNICs or Regrants if it's a Freeze EX.

I love being a support role in parties but when there's a Hunter deficiency in the party, it's easy to switch to the melee weapons and use whichever Lv. 30 PA that I have to thwack the enemy/enemies. I suppose the only problem with our role now is to get so many Laser CAnnon bullets to Lv. 40.... x.x Guess it's time to switch to Fortegunner and equip a Giga/Bullet Save..

[panzer_unit]

Fortegunner + bullet save is fun. Don't forget getting your grenades to level 40. They cap at 290% ATP or something ridiculous like that now. I've got Banga at lv32 for burn, Duranga chewing through the mid-levels. I'm torn between picking up Riga or Maga for freezing large targets as a Fortegunner.

I picked up Chamga on shotgun recently... charm doesn't go off very often even though it says SE4 :[ I'll work on it anyway once I've got Riga, Inga, and Maga to 31.

EDIT: PHANTASM PRISM YOU ARE SLOWLY KILLING ME. Level 29-point-something-high... next time you ding I'll still one level to go before the SE kicks up. Grr grr grr.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-12-20 07:30 ]</font>

[Aviendha]

I've been getting interested in PT again recently and I never got it to 10 before anyway, so I'm leveling the class up on my Human Male alt that could become my main. I decided to revive this thread instead of creating a new one since this thread was pretty good. I have lotsa questions so I'll divide it into sections.

*Melee*
Axe - I wish I hadn't deleted my FF alt without moving his PAs...>_<, b/c I really don't want to chug through Dugrega again. Redda goes fast though. Still, can someone give me a couple good examples of when I will want either of these two over Majarra? I really want Jabroga too, but the cost is pretty high, so I'll probably wait on that.

Spear - Give me a good reason to buy a PA not named Majarra.

Knux - I have Ikk Hikk, which I love on AF, but its just painfully slow without that speed boost. I do like the high ATA mod though, and my low EVA means I don't block out of it much, so I'll proabably continue to use this anyway. Zubba is just too slow on the knockdown for me, I prefer Rising Strike for my knockdown. Danga is good but rarely do you have the ideal setup for the full combo, so I'll pass on that. Is Robado worth it?

*Range*
Grenade - I've got Boma Megiga, what else is handy? Boma Banga?

Shotty - Shock or Freeze, which is more often useful? And how does Maga 31+ compare to elemental 31+? If its similar I may just buy that. How is the damage mod on Chamga as well? Only 25 frags for a very unique PA, I can't pass that up. =D

Laser - Phantasm 31+ damage is similar to elemental 31+ damage, right? I'm working on Plasma Prism now, but I'm thinking maybe Freeze would be better for holding them in place for more lazer pwnage, any thoughts on that?

Bow - I have Ice and Dark at nearly 30 and fire at 8 or so, but I doubt I'll use these on much besides bosses...how slow is Chousei compared to elemental? 10% slower? 50% slower?

Handgun - The damage for Mayalee hit posted earlier seemed similar to elemental at 21+, and it does two hits, right? Also, how long until my handgun outdamages my bow?


*Traps*
When is Stun EX better than Freeze EX? Burn EX or Burn G?

Any other trap combos that rock? Freeze EX + Jabroga is awesome, and I imagine you can do a lot of other setups with Freeze EX as well, any favorites? Or combos with other traps?

Thanks for reading my tl;dr

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Aviendha on 2008-01-09 08:01 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-01-09 07:51, Aviendha wrote:
*Melee*
Axe - I wish I hadn't deleted my FF alt without moving his PAs...>_<, b/c I really don't want to chug through Dugrega again. Redda goes fast though. Still, can someone give me a couple good examples of when I will want either of these two over Majarra?
...
Knux - I have Ikk Hikk, which I love on AF, but its just painfully slow without that speed boost.
Zubba is just too slow on the knockdown for me, I prefer Rising Strike for my knockdown.
Danga is good but rarely do you have the ideal setup for the full combo, so I'll pass on that.
Is Robado worth it?

*Range*
Grenade - I've got Boma Megiga, what else is handy? Boma Banga?

Shotty - Shock or Freeze, which is more often useful? And how does Maga 31+ compare to elemental 31+? If its similar I may just buy that. How is the damage mod on Chamga as well? Only 25 frags for a very unique PA, I can't pass that up. =D

Laser - Phantasm 31+ damage is similar to elemental 31+ damage, right? I'm working on Plasma Prism now, but I'm thinking maybe Freeze would be better for holding them in place for more lazer pwnage, any thoughts on that?

Handgun - The damage for Mayalee hit posted earlier seemed similar to elemental at 21+, and it does two hits, right? Also, how long until my handgun outdamages my bow?

*Traps*
When is Stun EX better than Freeze EX? Burn EX or Burn G?

Any other trap combos that rock? Freeze EX + Jabroga is awesome, and I imagine you can do a lot of other setups with Freeze EX as well, any favorites? Or combos with other traps?

Thanks for reading my tl;dr


Axe:
Redda - it's good because it levels up fast and does more damage than Dugrega if you're going to get interrupted before the last hit.

Dugrega - you need to level this up again. No question.

Jabroga - this PA's great for taking on large slow monsters and anything that tends to whack you and interrupt your PA. You can spend your time winding up outside their reach and then pop in to do some insane damage with little risk. Normally the PA setup time is what kills its usability, but Protransers have traps and grenades that will force an opening for you.

Knux... I love knuckles. Get you some Rabol Gant and some high-grind gloves for it.
Ikk Hikk - I've got it but I'm only getting ideas now about actually getting use out of it. Seems like Knuckle's version of Anga Jabroga, complete with huge benefits from using an EX trap to freeze your targets in a tight group for more ownage.

Zubba - actually an amazing PA. Once you get started on one or two monsters with it, they're doomed to get comboed and PA'd and tossed over and over until they die.

Robado - has an easier start with a really good fast 1x4 hit. It's indispensible just for that, you need this move.
The second move of the PA is slow and immobile with just a 2-target juggle at the end, it really makes the final move tough to pull off to maximum effect. IMO the full combo is not worthwhile.

Danga - opens with 2x3 hits for the same total damage as 1x4 on Robado, but harder to pull off. Unlike Robado the combo moves are awesome. The second hit is faster, stronger, and knockdown/knockback. It's worth using every time you get the chance to attack, which makes the PA quite damaging on regular use but goes through PP faster. For the last move all you need is to brawl your way into a decent crowd of monsters with the first 2 moves and you're positioned to hit with both the cartwheel + jump for some huge damage.

Grenade and Laser - the way these gain stats, you're best to pick one PA and level it all the way. Megiga's fine, you can't really screw up with any grenade. Phantasm's fine for laser, the ATA's handy. Freeze would be fine too, missing more and doing less damage but cheaper and with a slightly better SE.

Shotty - I leveled ice to 31 and I'm doing lightning now... eventually I'll get around to all the elements. Ice is the best SE skill though, when it goes off the SE stops EVERYTHING. Shock's really really good for busting through navals and stuff in Mot tho since you get defense and element together.

Handgun - I haven't tried Mayalee hit, but I do have Penetrating. It levels like insane and once your ATA doesn't suck it ends up doing ridiculous damage against groups of animals while leaving your hand free for a saber. For damage vs bow... once your ATP's about equal to whatever bow you're using you'll probably see handgun doing damage faster (it fires twice as frequently). Bows can't be beat when it comes to flying bosses though.

Traps -
Stun EX are better on teams where people can hit frequently enough to break freeze at bad times and let monsters get some moves out or jump out of the trap range.

Freeze EX are better solo since it stops monsters mid-attack, since you'll need to restock over the course of a few runs, and because traps don't push the targets away a little with each tick (which can screw with the PA's like Ick Hic and Jabroga that are perfect for busting up a bunch of frozen monsters)

G-rank freeze etc traps... not worth the time and space just to save some meseta on a lower-quality move.

Virus G is a possible tag-team partner with Freeze EX, but I'd only consider it against the Stateria fight at the end of Sleeping Warriors or something where the targets have a ton of HP and resistances.

[biggabertha]

panzer_unit's answered a lot of your questions already so I'll try and fill in for the parts he didn't answer.

Barada Chamga's not like your conventional Shotgun Bullet Art. Each bullet will only hit one target so it's damage potential isn't as good as any of the other bullets. It does however, have the same attack percent modifier as the weaker elemental bullets and 10% more accuracy than all of the elemental bullets.

Barada Maga also has the same attack modifier as the weaker elemental bullets but boasts 60% more accuracy than Barada Chamga at Lv. 40 for twice the PP cost.


Dus Daggas and Dus Robado look much better than Dus Majarra. Dus Robado is an excellent partner to either Dus Daggas or Dus Majarra if you pair two Spears/Lances on your palette each with seperate PAs so you can switch between them for utility's sake.

Mayalee Hit costs far too much to be used for damage purposes, it's best use I've found, is for topping up your HP while using your Saber but otherwise, I recommend you either get Penetrating Hit, Burning Hit or Frozen Hit for damage.

Chousei-Sou isn't terribly slower per shot than the other Longbow bullets but because Longbows are slow anyway, they seem even slower for the damage it churns out. If say, normal Longbow bolts fire fifty five shots in sixty seconds, then Chousei-Sou will fire approximately thirty five in sixty seconds. I may be exaggerating a little for Chousei-Sou but I haven't used it past Lv. 8 and I'm waiting for the EU release of the expansion to run it side by side with my main character.

Bear in mind though, Chousei-Sou has the same, if not slightly longer range than that of a Rifle and gained an extra 20% attack after the 1UP Event update.


Finally, unless money's an issue, you might as well stick with Burn EXs instead of carrying around Burn Gs because:
You can carry ten Burn EXs
Each Burn EX can inflict the burn status to six targets then you can just switch out of them for the same effect as a Burn G
Standing in a sea of flames always provokes some maniacal laughter somewhere.... >.>;;;

[Aviendha]

On 2008-01-09 13:09, biggabertha wrote:
panzer_unit's answered a lot of your questions already so I'll try and fill in for the parts he didn't answer.

Barada Chamga's not like your conventional Shotgun Bullet Art. Each bullet will only hit one target so it's damage potential isn't as good as any of the other bullets. It does however, have the same attack percent modifier as the weaker elemental bullets and 10% more accuracy than all of the elemental bullets.

Barada Maga also has the same attack modifier as the weaker elemental bullets but boasts 60% more accuracy than Barada Chamga at Lv. 40 for twice the PP cost.


Dus Daggas and Dus Robado look much better than Dus Majarra. Dus Robado is an excellent partner to either Dus Daggas or Dus Majarra if you pair two Spears/Lances on your palette each with seperate PAs so you can switch between them for utility's sake.

Mayalee Hit costs far too much to be used for damage purposes, it's best use I've found, is for topping up your HP while using your Saber but otherwise, I recommend you either get Penetrating Hit, Burning Hit or Frozen Hit for damage.

Chousei-Sou isn't terribly slower per shot than the other Longbow bullets but because Longbows are slow anyway, they seem even slower for the damage it churns out. If say, normal Longbow bolts fire fifty five shots in sixty seconds, then Chousei-Sou will fire approximately thirty five in sixty seconds. I may be exaggerating a little for Chousei-Sou but I haven't used it past Lv. 8 and I'm waiting for the EU release of the expansion to run it side by side with my main character.

Bear in mind though, Chousei-Sou has the same, if not slightly longer range than that of a Rifle and gained an extra 20% attack after the 1UP Event update.


Finally, unless money's an issue, you might as well stick with Burn EXs instead of carrying around Burn Gs because:
You can carry ten Burn EXs
Each Burn EX can inflict the burn status to six targets then you can just switch out of them for the same effect as a Burn G
Standing in a sea of flames always provokes some maniacal laughter somewhere.... >.>;;;

Each bullet only hits one target? WTF? You mean I need to hit 5 enemies with it for all 5 shots to count, or do normal shotgun bullets hax multiple targets per bullet or something?

Also, I'm loving Freeze Prism and Barada Riga so far but I really can't bring myself to use my level 1 Axe skills. I'll just wait until I get Jabroga, I guess. Thanks for all the advice, both of you.

[biggabertha]

That's right, every Shotgun bullet aside from Barada Chamga can hit two targets potentially giving you ten hits rather than just five from a Lv. 21+ bullet. This is what makes Barada Chamga "bad" amongst the Shotgun bullets because Shotguns are primarily used for damage and Barada Chamga doesn't deal potentially as much damage to multiple creatures (where you really want it to hit as many things as possible so things chase after you). It is more accurate and the landing rate for it is quite high, it even lands on Gaozarans but you'd better start running in curves...

You'll get Anga Redda leveled up in no time if you carry a few axes with you, Anga Dugrega takes ages to level no doubt but it is the best PA for tackling (literally) enemies susceptible to knockback (medium, large or otherwise). Anga Jabroga will crush your soul when you get interrupted at the last possible moment (when you're soaring through the sky and just before impact with the ground, someone/something hits you/does a stomp and knocks you out of it).

[panzer_unit]

I jumped into a Grinna Bete stomp with Jabroga last night. Yes, that sucked.

BTW I got Bogga Robado to lv21 a little while ago... overall the move is almost identical to Gravity Break. High 1-target damage -> 2-rarget juggle -> 2-target knockback.

The first attack is great compared to Gravity Break. You can spam it much more rapidly for similar damage, and Knuckles can maintain their energy much more easily in the long run.

On the rest of the PA I think Gravity Break wins. You can immediately fire the juggle hit and JA the stronger knockback attack before Robado even gets to its last move... which is potentially more powerful, but so far I haven't found a situation where I can make use of it after that slow middle move.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-01-10 08:30 ]</font>

[Aviendha]

On 2008-01-10 01:01, biggabertha wrote:
That's right, every Shotgun bullet aside from Barada Chamga can hit two targets potentially giving you ten hits rather than just five from a Lv. 21+ bullet. This is what makes Barada Chamga "bad" amongst the Shotgun bullets because Shotguns are primarily used for damage and Barada Chamga doesn't deal potentially as much damage to multiple creatures (where you really want it to hit as many things as possible so things chase after you). It is more accurate and the landing rate for it is quite high, it even lands on Gaozarans but you'd better start running in curves...

You'll get Anga Redda leveled up in no time if you carry a few axes with you, Anga Dugrega takes ages to level no doubt but it is the best PA for tackling (literally) enemies susceptible to knockback (medium, large or otherwise). Anga Jabroga will crush your soul when you get interrupted at the last possible moment (when you're soaring through the sky and just before impact with the ground, someone/something hits you/does a stomp and knocks you out of it).


Interesting about shotgun bullets. Now the only Frag arts I want immediately are Barada Maga, Phantasm Prism, and Jabroga. I'm probably going to pass on Knux, I've gotten Robado and Danga to 21+ before, neither is often in the ideal situation to get all the hits, and Zubba and Ikk Hikk are frustratingly slow without Acro bonus. I also don't have room on my palette for everything, something I'm sure PT always has issues with. Saber/Pistol, Axe, Spear, Grenade, Laser, Shotty, and Bow makes 7, though I do only use bow for bosses.

[Kurai_Inago]

Good News everyone (If this hasn't been reported before) But with today's update, EX Stun Traps are now available ready made from stores.

[IsoDonk]

Is there a new EX Trap board available in the synth shop on the colony?

[IsoDonk]

I'll answer that one myself: No, there isn't. Boo.

[biggabertha]

It's such a god send having three sets of EX traps at your fingertips in each run, especially since I'm still on PSU: Vanilla. These Stun EX traps would be so useful for things that are immune to being frozen but other than Carriguines and Piggy (Gol Dova, spelling?), I can't really think of anything that merits their extreme use but one thing I interestingly found was that they've rarely been a "dud" trap for me like the Burn or the Freeze ones.

[BahnKnakyu]

Having 2x PTs in your team is now one of the better team setups, as one can use a debilitating trap (i.e. Stun EX) and the other can back it up with Burn EX. I was in a run with 3x PTs and it was lol-city.

[biggabertha]

I cannot imagine the carnage that would be twelve EX traps laid down on any number of creatures. I think only bosses would survive the entire onslaught of damage but that has to be one of the most satisfying scenes to see.

I can see how a pair of Stun EXs and a pair of Burn EXs can cause some serious harm to enemies, besides, it's always nice to stand in the middle of a sea of flames!

[Neith]

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/urikobb3/ProtranserEXRape_01.jpg
That's with 3 Protransers. I blame Gol Dolva's huge amount of targetable parts.

I jumped on the PT bandwagon lately, and I gotta say, once I got into the higher job levels, its such a fun class. Nothing more magic than dropping a Stun EX, followed by a Burn EX, and watching the resulting carnage http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif Alternatively, against things like Svaltus, Freeze G ->Virus G ->Freeze EX, or something to that effect.

I still have a lot to learn about the class, but it really surprised me- I expected to hate it, and only tried it at all because it was one of the few classes I hadn't.

Certainly saved my Cast from being deleted anyway.

[panzer_unit]

Wait... you can cycle through traps without cancelling the detonations of EX traps already on the go?

I've been leaning on traps really hard in the event missions. Duoing the mission with a low level friend is an awful chore without 'em, and comes close to cakewalk with... the difference in trimates used is incredible.

2 Burn EX for each SEED-Vitace. These guys are bullet resistant AND interrupt you pretty much nonstop when trying to melee. Any kind of free damage is enormously helpful.
1 Virus G + Freeze EX pair for the three Svaltus spawn (Dragon route)
2 Burn EX for Gol Dolva, mmm BBQ (block 4 Dragon route)
1 Freeze EX to stop that nasty group of buffed Gohmon (block 4 Adenha/Dimmo route)
1 Freeze EX for buffed Bils/Darbelans (block 3 Fakis route)
1 Freeze EX for buffed fire Gohmons (block 4 Fakis route)

[Neith]

On 2008-01-16 07:56, panzer_unit wrote:
Wait... you can cycle through traps without cancelling the detonations of EX traps already on the go?


Nah, once you switch to another trap, the damage from the 1st EX cancels out. What I mean is, use the EX for the Stun SE (since Burn flinches enemies back a lot). While the mobs are stunned, fire EX burns and damages. It's handy for me because a lot of my bullets are still fairly low level.