BSOD is back =/

[Angelz0r]

I got bsoded today. For of those who dont know what it is. The Black Screen Of Death. I thought sonic team fixed this flaw -_-

[Guntz348]

bsod been had been back. sorry to say it but its something that can never truely be fixed. any electronic deivce runnin any type of program can theotretically crash at anytime. if the designers know what they are doin the chances are really low tho. what does that tell you bout ST?

[Octavian]

Eh, it tells us they dont know what they're doing.

[Angelz0r]

Exactly man. It just tells us that sonic team is a bunch of lazy bastards =/

[Munki]

wow. Maybe I am missing sarcasm here... (hard to read). But if these posts are serious...

You people (collectively all around, not just you guys specifically) should lay off Sonic Team. I mean c'mon. You play their game ALOT, and no matter WHAT you do, a game is gonna have bugs. I work in software, and that is just a fact in the buisness. I have worked on titles that have shipped with crash bugs in them... cuz you CANT catch 'em all.

All I ever seem to see is Sonic Team Sucks this Sonic Team Sucks that.

If Sonic Team is so bad/lazy why do you support their product/products? I think PSO is a FREAKING amazing game, it was one of the first of its kind on console. In my opinion PSO is one of the best games I have played in a LOOOOOOONG time. It was amazing on DC, it is STILL amazing on GCN. I have devoted a large chunk of my life to this game since it was releaseed.

So you know what?

LONG LIVE SONIC TEAM. LAZY? NAY, THEY ARE GODS!!!

Okay, maybe I am exagerating, but Sonic Team is a GREAT development house. So cut them some slack, and go play this amazing gem that they decided to put out.

BTW, BSOD is not exactly common nowadays... so I guess sonic team DOES know what their doing, huh?

[TheWiLL]

Yo isn't FSOD or BSOD happens mostly at Vega...because the servers doesn't like more than 100 people in a lobby?

[DirewolfX]

I would just like to echo Munki's sentiments. If you don't know what you're talking about, then STFU.

[PentUpAnger]

On 2003-01-08 01:19, TheWiLL wrote:
Yo isn't FSOD or BSOD happens mostly at Vega...because the servers doesn't like more than 100 people in a lobby?



I play in Vega all the time... I have only FSODed once in Antares 8 :

[neko-chan]

On 2003-01-07 23:52, Munki wrote:
LONG LIVE SONIC TEAM. LAZY? NAY, THEY ARE GODS!!!


Yes: ass gods.

Most of the BSODs are caused either by:
- changing color of lobby chairs (as Baru stated)
- bug when connecting over PPPoE protocol.

Now, since DSL is the most popular broadband connection right now, and since PPPoE is the most common protocol for DSL connections, your assumption, other than immature, makes no sense. Sonic Team is a fair good games developer, but it strongly sucks when it comes to the online side of gaming.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: neko-chan on 2003-01-08 05:03 ]</font>

[Gastlichu]

Telling someone to stop bashing the developers of a game is a waste of time http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif That's just human nature. In EQ people talk crap about Verant, here about ST, but still we all love the game lol.

Some of my friends have had FSOD, I think I did one time, but I disconected the cable and it got me disconected and nothing happened. ;o

[neko-chan]

It's not about bashing. It's pointing out their mistakes. Mistakes like those affects people who bought their products. Sonic Team is a company which members are humans, not gods as someone said. Humans = Mistakes. I don't have problems admitting mines, I don't see why I can't point out Sonic Team's ones. Expecially if those mistakes affect me.

Now, if I'm going to make an on-line game, at least I have to be competent regarding protocols, servers, etc... This one we're playing is the third version of PSO. They had two full years to refine and improve the first release. And those two years were not enough to fix the PPPoE thing? I mean: DC PSO didn't even support this protocol. Then they released a GCN version claiming it supported PPPoE. THEN they released, but in Japan only, thanks, a fourth version without the PPPoE bugs. They fixed it in one month or so. To me, it looks like the PPPoE problems were not impossible to fix. This makes sense to you?

Still, I don't understand why I get random BSODs, after two years of this game is out. Not to mention duping, etc...

They make mistakes, Can't you agree with me?

[Gastlichu]

I completely agree. But also I don't know or never heard of a beta test for PSO in the US. If they did have a beta test well then they did a really bad job on it, if they didn't then I guess we are playing a beta test with the difference that they are charging us http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif lol.


Edit: Also one thing that bugs me is that unlike all other MMORPGS there is a team just for that game, compared to PSO where there is not a PSO dessignated team. That could also make any changes/updates slower. =





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gastlichu on 2003-01-08 15:19 ]</font>

[Munki]

Neko-chan, I can agree with what you are saying, (which is why I said calling em gods in my post was exagerating a bit), and of course they make mistakes. But I would say that for many people, they are just flaming as opposed to pointing out flaws...



On 2003-01-07 23:35, Julius wrote:
Eh, it tells us they dont know what they're doing.



That is not exactly a true statement, nor is it pointing out flaws. We can all agree that games will have crash bugs. ST really pionereed the CONSOLE online expirience (or at least succesfully did so... xband *shudder*), and they are bound to have lots of problems. They don't have a dedicated PSO team, and that is a shame. But still, I think Sonic Team has done an admirable job, and that many of these people bashing them forget the fact that the reason they care is because ST made a damn good game in the first place.

I can't agree with some of the stuff that ST has done past development (i.e. lack of quests, online pricing scheme, battling dupes, etc.), but the game itself is great. Your gonna get BSOD. That is an unfortunate problem with development of an online game, its not easy to stop up all the 'holes'.

I just hope they have something in mind to combat future NOL's n stuff.

[Barubary6]

If Sonic Team hired me, I'd fix the PPPoE bug in 2 days at most without having to give out new disks. And I would fix online duping (which the majority of duping is). I'm not being overconfident here - I am an expert at PSO's client and protocol.

Due to the nature of the patch system, it is not possible for Sonic Team to modify their .cpp files and recompile a new client. Only a few bytes can be changed. They need a reverse engineer in order to do this, even with the source code.

Sonic Team probably does not have the money to hire someone extra like me full-time to monitor their servers. It's far more important for them to make Sega profitable - to keep Sonic Team alive - than to ensure perfection on the servers.

-- Barubary

[ChronoTrigga_Lost]

On 2003-01-08 16:43, Barubary6 wrote:
If Sonic Team hired me, I'd fix the PPPoE bug in 2 days at most without having to give out new disks. And I would fix online duping (which the majority of duping is). I'm not being overconfident here - I am an expert at PSO's client and protocol.

Due to the nature of the patch system, it is not possible for Sonic Team to modify their .cpp files and recompile a new client. Only a few bytes can be changed. They need a reverse engineer in order to do this, even with the source code.

Sonic Team probably does not have the money to hire someone extra like me full-time to monitor their servers. It's far more important for them to make Sega profitable - to keep Sonic Team alive - than to ensure perfection on the servers.

-- Barubary



true dat...

I'm sure all video game companies want to make money from their games. It's just the people who actually do the art, creation and so forth who actually care about the game. Ya know...people who actually create the characters in the game, and design them. It's just the big corporate bastards who don't give a flarn.

[neko-chan]

My point is that ST is not that "great" developer, at least for what it concerns the online side of gaming.

Why? Mostly because of PPPoE.

Think about it. PPPoE is the most common protocol for DSL users.

I heard many of you lucky guys living in the USA have cable modems and speed light connections. But here in Europe, and in Japan as well, the most common, accessible, affordable and expecially available Internet connection is DSL. Most of DSL connections are on PPPoE. So, when I say they're not that great developers, I think I say the thruth. Because they forgot/were unable/whatever to make the game stable and enjoyable for the majority of gamers.

It's like, let's say, if a PC developer release a game compatible with many APIs but DirectX. This makes no sense: DirectX is almost the standard.

Regarding ST as pioneer of online console experience, if my memory serves me well I remember a modem and an online game released by Sega for the Saturn console, back in 1993/94.

ST is a great games developer, sure. You can feel this just by playing PSO: a deep game that even after two years I'm playing it, I'm still discovering new things. It's a product of a huge and creative developing concept. But when it comes to the online side of it, all ST attempts led to failure.

Sure, I could shut up and buy a router. But I play console games for a reason: because I want to avoid all those tweaking problems those affect PC games.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: neko-chan on 2003-01-09 05:08 ]</font>

[AnimalMother]

Black Screen of Death my ass, Microsoft should sue Sega for copyright infringement. BSOD stands for Blue Screen of Death. In either case I guess its time to get fired up about losing all my kick ass rappy slaying gear, and, or the character I just slaved over for 100+ hours. OORAH!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AnimalMother on 2003-01-09 02:29 ]</font>

[Munki]

On 2003-01-09 01:47, neko-chan wrote:
Regarding ST as pioneer of online console experience, if my memory serves me well I remember a modem and an online game released by Sega for the Saturn console, back in 1993/94.


just to point out that I am NOT an idiot on the subject of video game history neko-chan...

I had said;


ST really pionereed the CONSOLE online expirience (or at least succesfully did so... xband *shudder*)


xband was the VERY unsucessful modem released for the SG and SS. On another note, Nintendo also unsucessfully tried to launch an online network for the NES. I believe it was tested out in Minnesota (I could be wrong on location tho), and it never worked out. They also did some online crud witht he famicon in japan as well I believe... having to do with stocks management on the NES.

Anyway, the rest of this I can agree with. ST overlooked some aspects of dealing with broadband, and they also have some issues / kinks to work out of their 'system' (pricing, cheating, etc).

But at least we can both agree that ST makes great games. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Or at least has the ability to make great games (as they have released some stinkers)

[Jack]

On 2003-01-08 16:43, Barubary6 wrote:
If Sonic Team hired me, I'd fix the PPPoE bug in 2 days at most without having to give out new disks. And I would fix online duping (which the majority of duping is). I'm not being overconfident here - I am an expert at PSO's client and protocol.

Due to the nature of the patch system, it is not possible for Sonic Team to modify their .cpp files and recompile a new client. Only a few bytes can be changed. They need a reverse engineer in order to do this, even with the source code.

Sonic Team probably does not have the money to hire someone extra like me full-time to monitor their servers. It's far more important for them to make Sega profitable - to keep Sonic Team alive - than to ensure perfection on the servers.

-- Barubary

Then why not contact ST and tell them what they need to do? You seem happy to find all these ways to make the game work properly, why not put it into action?

[Elixer]

yes if you think you have a way to fix it maybe you can explain to them how to do call them and maybe they will let you help

[saffaya]

Sonic Team probably does not have the money to hire someone extra like me full-time to monitor their servers. It's far more important for them to make Sega profitable - to keep Sonic Team alive - than to ensure perfection on the servers.

-- Barubary

So sonic Team can't hire a single person more ?
Even for assuring a smooth and correct operation of their online game ?
That seems very unlikely.
(considering ST game sales like SA2 on the GC for example)

More to the point, they simply don't care.
It's not that they can't, it is that they don't want to hire someone competent for that matter.

You already proposed your services long ago to them if I recall correctly.

[neko-chan]

Do you guys really think that this dumbass

http://www.grospixels.homelinux.com/essai/site/images/sagsonic/naka.jpg


knows something about networking?

>_>

<_<

Bah.

As for me, I cancelled HL and trashed PSO. See you on well coded online games.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: neko-chan on 2003-02-06 13:54 ]</font>

[Guntz348]

ST released a product that they knew to be flawed. With the JP players they knew there was PPPoE bugs that would cause FSOD problems so they made a V1.1 disc and gave it to them. They knew about this before the US version was released, they knowing put out software that had a lot of bugs in it. Most people, myself included, didn't know about these bugs until they had allready bought the game, experienced the problems, found the bugs and then researched how to fix them. What we found was that people were struggling with these problems since the JP release and ST knew they were there. I would have been pissed if the release got pushed back but I think I'd rather have an actual 'finished' product and have waited the extra little bit of time.