I'm beginning to see why nobody likes Acrotechers. [Archive]

Broodstar1337

Dec 9, 2007, 04:11 PM

Just ditched a party of randoms (go fucking figure). Party was half Acrotecher and the other half I don't give a fuck about. I was one of the ATs there and I had my shit squared away. Y'all say you want an AT that doesn't just twirl the fucking whip around constantly and will buff and heal when the party needs it. You want it and I deliver. As much as I hate people being whiny bitches about ATs requiring maxed out buffs and will put the whip away to tend to the party, that's exactly what I do.

Maybe I don't hate hearing about it anymore. In fact, maybe I sympathize with you wholeheartedly.

The party was running White Beasts and we got to one of at least 100 rooms with the ice traps that hover around the room and freeze whoever gets touched. I get hit by the trap and I freeze for a good minute. I see EVERYBODY wailing on the last standing Ubakrada until it dies, then everyone runs into the next block.

Now obviously I'm a little butthurt over this. Two active ATs won't use the resources at their disposal to achieve party success. Why the fuck are you an AT if you don't have any desire to lift a finger for the party? I can understand not having your buffs maxed out, but when people ignore the players that can't fight back, that's when there's a problem!

I remember back during the two weeks that I played on the JP servers and the same shit happened. The party ran off and I was frozen. But I never unfroze. I just died. I'm lucky that didn't happen this time around, but the point is that this shouldn't be happening in the first place! I can't scream for help in Japanese. I can scream for help in American. That shouldn't be necessary!

Hell, even a Fortefighter can pop a Sol Atomizer! Do they? No. It's not in the job description for a Hunter to lift a finger for their fellow man once in awhile. It is however in teching classes, ESPECIALLY FUCKING ACROTECHER!

These ATs... they're not ATs. They're scum.

EDIT: Removed link to porn.

[ This Message was edited by: Broodstar1337 on 2007-12-09 13:14 ]

Umberger

Dec 9, 2007, 04:18 PM

I don't like ATs because I've yet to see a single one that actively uses attack TECHNICS, even though they have the second highest TP modifier and a level 30 cap.

thunder-ray

Dec 9, 2007, 04:22 PM

The only part about the post you made that i disagree with is FF. Just like you guys we play support in are own way i as in myself dont have a problem with running over and using a sol on you. The way i see it is im a FF i cant use techs that means who ever is the techer its my job to keep the techer alive at all costs. The same thing can happen to me i ether get sleeped or frozen and it would be my own benfit if i make sure the techer is able to heal me from SE and heal my hp. If that FF that was in your party didnt use a sol then he wasent doing his job at all.

Sekani

Dec 9, 2007, 05:31 PM

Eventually you'll all learn that acrotecher is not a support class.

Shadow_Wing

Dec 9, 2007, 06:12 PM

On 2007-12-09 14:31, Sekani wrote:
Eventually you'll all learn that acrotecher is not a support class.

<< wrong.

Anyways I'm a CAST AT, me, atk techs? lawl.

CelestialBlade

Dec 9, 2007, 06:33 PM

It's not just AT. I did something very weird today and joined a random party in White Beast. My GT got frozen and everyone just ran off, confident that none of them needed my help. Nobody wanted to wait on buffs either, and several members just up and ran off on their own.

And as a result? Most of them died. Several times.

Hey, if people don't want support, fuck em. I buff/heal the people who actually want and appreciate it. I do my best to keep the party healthy and powerful but if you show me you really don't care for it, I'm not gonna break my back for you. Yell at me all you want afterwards, I'll be sure and let you know why I didn't buff you.

Support classes in general have been dealing with this for a very long time, people think they're THE SHIT and don't need no support. This is why I wish this game had some sort of death penalty, I'd be laughing so much.

Raine_Loire

Dec 9, 2007, 07:53 PM

Well, I think you're making a mistake by saying such and such a job SHOULD do this or SHOULD do that. Any job can do whatever they want- within the limitations of their job, of course. HOWEVER- if you are playing in a team, shouldn't you act like a team player? Yeah, that means at least reversering and restaing or for non techers using a sol atomizer or a star once in a while.

Broodstar, did you call someone over? I mean maybe they didn't realize you were frozen, just thought you were AFK, and since freeze doesn't last THAT long, maybe they felt it would wear off by the time they got to you. On top of that, as a team player, as long as you are out of danger, you shouldn't expect people to walk away from the enemy to unfreeze you when it's a timed effect anyway.

I fully believe that people should play how they want. Everyone, not just me, lol. And it's every team members job to support to the best of their abilities... which is why I solo when I'm not playing with Laguna. I've found few few few people who support the techer. O.o

Dragwind

Dec 9, 2007, 08:40 PM

Well, I for one certain have all my support techs at 31 and I do use my attach techs for the very reason they're very good. I do use melee, but sparingly when needed. /bragwhine

Darkly

Dec 9, 2007, 09:29 PM

Wait a minute, PSU is a TEAM GAME?!

Sekani

Dec 9, 2007, 09:36 PM

On 2007-12-09 15:12, Shadow_Wing wrote:

On 2007-12-09 14:31, Sekani wrote:
Eventually you'll all learn that acrotecher is not a support class.

<< wrong.

Until it becomes the accepted community standard for acrotechers to buff and heal people instead of spamming whips and Spinning Strike, it is not a support class. I almost feel like I should get an I told you so (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=159500&forum=20&start=0) or something.

Zorafim

Dec 9, 2007, 10:03 PM

That's kinda like saying White Mage is a nuker, or Black Mage is a meleer. It's fairly obvious the class was designed for support.

McLaughlin

Dec 9, 2007, 10:05 PM

On 2007-12-09 13:11, Broodstar1337 wrote:
I can't scream for help in Japanese. I can scream for help in American English. That shouldn't be necessary!

I never thought anyone would ever be that arrogant.

Zorafim

Dec 9, 2007, 10:08 PM

"I'm from America, I don't speak english!"

Shadow_Wing

Dec 9, 2007, 10:48 PM

On 2007-12-09 18:36, Sekani wrote:

On 2007-12-09 15:12, Shadow_Wing wrote:

On 2007-12-09 14:31, Sekani wrote:
Eventually you'll all learn that acrotecher is not a support class.

<< wrong.

Until it becomes the accepted community standard for acrotechers to buff and heal people instead of spamming whips and Spinning Strike, it is not a support class. I almost feel like I should get an I told you so (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=159500&forum=20&start=0) or something.

Just cause the community doesn't play it right, doesn't mean it's the correct way to play a class.

Anyways I'd give it a few months till people finally figure out how to play this class.

Sord

Dec 9, 2007, 11:13 PM

"I don't understand a word you just said. Try speaking American, it's the only language I understand."

Broodstar1337

Dec 10, 2007, 12:08 AM

On 2007-12-09 19:05, Obsidian_Knight wrote:

On 2007-12-09 13:11, Broodstar1337 wrote:
I can't scream for help in Japanese. I can scream for help in American English. That shouldn't be necessary!

I never thought anyone would ever be that arrogant.

Ugh...

You know how Englishmen like to joke about how their English is actually English and American English isn't English? Yeah...

As for the guys complaining about how I took out pornographic links, if you really felt like looking at Goatse, it's all over Encyclopedia Dramatica. Search for "at least 100" and "butthurt" and you'll see why I had to make some hasty edits...

Mystil

Dec 10, 2007, 12:22 AM

That's not just ATs.. that's the problem as a whole. Get a sleep/resist. It really is the only way to avoid that in a random party..

Better yet, get all the /resist. It sucks having to use them because other body slots will be better(soon anyway), but sols and reverser and resta.. that's thrown out the window.

thunder-ray

Dec 10, 2007, 01:52 AM

In some way i can see how AT is a support class since it has supports lvl 40 and FT is now a attack techer class is kinda like balance in away since back before At came out the only class with the best support was FT. But with what someone says about all classes supporting each other even if your not a techer makes since. I mean the way i see it is the techer has resta and reverser i wana make sure that hes not frozen or sleep that way he can do his support job by keeping me alive its a pain having to get killed to many and having to buy more scape dolls since dolls are pretty high on price if would be only smart to make sure the techer is able to heal me at all times so if i get sleeped or frozen he can just walk over and cast a reverser on me i hope. ><

Raine_Loire

Dec 10, 2007, 02:32 AM

... of course now I am starting to wonder...

If you can't communicate with a party in Japanese, why would you go party on the Japanese servers? How is that being a good team player?

Broodstar1337

Dec 10, 2007, 09:59 AM

On 2007-12-09 23:32, Raine_Loire wrote:
... of course now I am starting to wonder...

If you can't communicate with a party in Japanese, why would you go party on the Japanese servers? How is that being a good team player?

Because importers aren't on all the time and I'm sure as hell not going to solo everything.

With that said, communication shouldn't be needed. There are visual cues that let others know certain players are in a tight spot. Symbols that indicate status effects. LITTLE TO NO HEALTH! The language barrier is no excuse to play like ass.

Now, for certain instances like 1up, I can see where we can run into problems if we're not all on the same page.

Mystil

Dec 10, 2007, 11:25 AM

I've come to the understanding that people will read/see what they want to see. Kinda like how I could be talking to someone in FFXI and they'll flat out ignore me in a party. The letters are in big enough font and you can't miss it. I really hated trying to talk to people in that game. Then there is the horror stories of tanks getting silenced/paralyzed and having to say silena/paralyna please over and over in the chat box, but the healing paying them no mind.

Anduril

Dec 10, 2007, 02:17 PM

Deciding to take a break from still filling in the role of buffer/healer as an fT despite the fact that there is always an AT in the parties I join, I decided to go AF with my Main. And it was there that I came to find that I still do all the healing/supporting despite the ATs being everywhere. I ran out of Sols and Moons in a single mission because I was running to Cure/Revive everyone while any AT was just wailing on monsters with their whip. And if you even ask for one of them to help out they bitch about it, saying that they'll miss out on all the EXP...

Shadow_Wing

Dec 10, 2007, 04:05 PM

On 2007-12-10 08:25, Mystil wrote:
I've come to the understanding that people will read/see what they want to see. Kinda like how I could be talking to someone in FFXI and they'll flat out ignore me in a party. The letters are in big enough font and you can't miss it. I really hated trying to talk to people in that game. Then there is the horror stories of tanks getting silenced/paralyzed and having to say silena/paralyna please over and over in the chat box, but the healing paying them no mind.

Then there are those, like myself, who play the support role well and doesn't slow the team down, who take up a class cause of it being what it is, rather than what it is not.

Though I admit, there are far too many whippers and not enough non-whippers who support or not when it comes to ATs <<;

Chaosgyro

Dec 10, 2007, 04:45 PM

Maybe there's something wrong with me, but I don't like whips. I've tried them on my WT, and while the chance of inflicting shock or somesuch is nice...I'd rather just kill them dead with a boot(en) to the face.

Powder Keg

Dec 10, 2007, 04:54 PM

People who play any class can be whatever the fuck they want to be.

How's that?

Shadow_Wing

Dec 10, 2007, 06:56 PM

On 2007-12-10 13:54, Artea wrote:
People who play any class can be whatever the fuck they want to be.

How's that?

Pretty much on the most part you just have to realize this. I don't really mind ATs that suck, cause lets face it, they're people and well people are just that, just people. It's really their choice to play the class however which way they want to, specially something as well versed as AT is, however, it doesn't necessarily mean they're playing it right or well.

It's the people that make overly generic statements about certain classes that really get me, specially if they're completely wrong.

And anyways, who says I can't complain about people who butcher a class I like XD.

Edit: This is the main problem with combined classes that incorporate more than just one specialization, a lot of people I tend to find can't handle being able to cope with. This is something I've seen again and again with games that handle combined classes. People have to kind of take into consideration both aspects of the said class to make good use of it, otherwise they're playing it wrong; but alas the biggest problem with combined classes is that they're quite complicated to play, when it comes down to the nuts and bolts of how it's played well, and thus a lot of people suck at it.

[ This Message was edited by: Shadow_Wing on 2007-12-10 16:01 ]

McLaughlin

Dec 10, 2007, 07:26 PM

On 2007-12-10 08:25, Mystil wrote:
I've come to the understanding that people will read/see what they want to see. Kinda like how I could be talking to someone in FFXI and they'll flat out ignore me in a party. The letters are in big enough font and you can't miss it. I really hated trying to talk to people in that game. Then there is the horror stories of tanks getting silenced/paralyzed and having to say silena/paralyna please over and over in the chat box, but the healing paying them no mind.

When I get Petrified, I tend to already have enough hate to keep the mob on me until it wears (assuming it hits me. I'm pretty good at avoiding it.)

When I get Silenced, I just start dropping real low, and the WHM/SM/RDM/whoever usually catches on pretty quickly. It seems a lot of them hate healing. Even though they're WHM (RDM and SMN I can sympathize with).

Zorafim

Dec 10, 2007, 08:21 PM

On 2007-12-10 13:54, Artea wrote:
People who play any class can be whatever the fuck they want to be.

How's that?

Have fun being a meleeing white mage!

MrNomad

Dec 10, 2007, 08:41 PM

On 2007-12-10 13:54, Artea wrote:
People who play any class can be whatever the fuck they want to be.

And I can boot them if they aren't any help http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Person A: I'll play however I want! It's my 10$/month and I can do whatever I want with it!

Person B: I like how you think! I'm gonna hack your account and take your items, because it's my 10$/month and I'll do whatever I want!!

P A: O O

Chaosgyro

Dec 10, 2007, 08:44 PM

Edit: This is the main problem with combined classes that incorporate more than just one specialization, a lot of people I tend to find can't handle being able to cope with. This is something I've seen again and again with games that handle combined classes. People have to kind of take into consideration both aspects of the said class to make good use of it, otherwise they're playing it wrong; but alas the biggest problem with combined classes is that they're quite complicated to play, when it comes down to the nuts and bolts of how it's played well, and thus a lot of people suck at it.

That's pretty much the reason I've always hated that holy grail of super broken-ness: the Fighter-Mage. Sure, it sounds like it's the best thing since sliced bread. You'd think that suddenly mobs would bow down before your greatness as you can pwn them 8 different ways while munching some KFC. However, once you think about it you're always half sucking. While you're doing your melee thing you aren't casting, and while you're casting you aren't doing your melee thing. No game that has tried to conjure the avatar of this god has ever succeeded, and I'm beginning to think it's because it can't be done.

Whenever a person picks a hybrid class it's because one half appeals to them and they like an ability or two from the other side. Effectively doing two different things at once is not only difficult, it's nigh impossible. Hence...the AT. 99% of players surely looked at it and thought, "melee=good, whips=good melee, and I get twin pistols to boot...hey, I'm a fighgunner with resta!".

P.S. despite my war-mage hate I play wartecher...some people never learn (that's ok, I already knew I was doing it wrong anyway)

thunder-ray

Dec 10, 2007, 09:06 PM

hybrid classes period are more like a class that can do 2 thing rather then one job like fortefighter. being any hybrid class period in my view can be diffcult if you dont no how to use it well. When i made my cast a WT i sucked for lawhile untill i lvled my techs up a bit and the class lvl so i can be more usefull in a party rather the a liabitily and get killed alot. Whenever ive ever tried a hybrid class i alway look at what there options are fo me my main is a fortefighter, fightgunner and a wartecher. Fortefighter as we all know is pure melee with no other options or side job what so ever, fightgunner pretty much has the option to do support fire with twin handguns and machine guns and given the bullet lvl being boosted im looking forward to max out my bullets and last is wartecher. I find this class for me to be a little diffcult since it involes using magic when i first started it was hard for me to use the class well but after i practice with it more i got better at it and i didnt suck as bad. (next)

thunder-ray

Dec 10, 2007, 09:14 PM

To make things clear on what i stated on my last thread is your gonna suck on any class when you first try it because it might be your first time trying the class and your used to doing one class that you own at. For hybrid classes in my opinion after trying one i can see how some of them can be hard since its the first time trying them you kinda have to get the feel of the class before you get real good at it for some they learnt how to master it fast cuz they might have played to main classes and know how to use them properly. Fightgunner had to be the easiest class ive mastersed quickly since it only has the option to use guns, however i can imagine being a AT can be a little diffcult if you dont have a certain style to preform the class well, or you havent lvl your buffs that much. Too end my secound thread i dont think AT sucks its just the person trying to learn how to use the class isnt used to using the class since the class is fairly new.

F-Gattaca

Dec 10, 2007, 09:48 PM

On 2007-12-10 17:21, Zorafim wrote:

On 2007-12-10 13:54, Artea wrote:
People who play any class can be whatever the fuck they want to be.

How's that?

Have fun being a meleeing white mage!

People did that in PSO too, didn't they? They could get away with it for a while, up until Ultimate, right?

Weren't Crea Doubles a Force-only weapon back in the day?

Mystil

Dec 10, 2007, 11:30 PM

On 2007-12-10 17:44, Chaosgyro wrote:

Edit: This is the main problem with combined classes that incorporate more than just one specialization, a lot of people I tend to find can't handle being able to cope with. This is something I've seen again and again with games that handle combined classes. People have to kind of take into consideration both aspects of the said class to make good use of it, otherwise they're playing it wrong; but alas the biggest problem with combined classes is that they're quite complicated to play, when it comes down to the nuts and bolts of how it's played well, and thus a lot of people suck at it.

That's pretty much the reason I've always hated that holy grail of super broken-ness: the Fighter-Mage. Sure, it sounds like it's the best thing since sliced bread. You'd think that suddenly mobs would bow down before your greatness as you can pwn them 8 different ways while munching some KFC. However, once you think about it you're always half sucking. While you're doing your melee thing you aren't casting, and while you're casting you aren't doing your melee thing. No game that has tried to conjure the avatar of this god has ever succeeded, and I'm beginning to think it's because it can't be done.

Whenever a person picks a hybrid class it's because one half appeals to them and they like an ability or two from the other side. Effectively doing two different things at once is not only difficult, it's nigh impossible. Hence...the AT. 99% of players surely looked at it and thought, "melee=good, whips=good melee, and I get twin pistols to boot...hey, I'm a fighgunner with resta!".

P.S. despite my war-mage hate I play wartecher...some people never learn (that's ok, I already knew I was doing it wrong anyway)

This made a ton of sense. You just described my current delimma with AT(because I wanna switch to it).

[ This Message was edited by: Mystil on 2007-12-10 20:38 ]

Soukosa

Dec 11, 2007, 12:04 AM

On 2007-12-09 19:48, Shadow_Wing wrote:
Just cause the community doesn't play it right, doesn't mean it's the correct way to play a class.

Anyways I'd give it a few months till people finally figure out how to play this class.

There's a proper way to play a job type now? Oh shi... I guess I must be playing my AT completely wrong then http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif Whacking stuff with melee and such since you know... they get a 4 S grade melee weapons. Oh yes, AT isn't supposed to melee despite that! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

If AT was only meant to be a support bitch, it'd just have S grade whips and madoogs with lv 40 support techs. But you know what? It doesn't. It is a job highly skewed to helping the party with support but that's hardly the only thing they're capable of doing.

Broodstar1337

Dec 11, 2007, 12:17 AM

On 2007-12-10 21:04, Soukosa wrote:

On 2007-12-09 19:48, Shadow_Wing wrote:
Just cause the community doesn't play it right, doesn't mean it's the correct way to play a class.

Anyways I'd give it a few months till people finally figure out how to play this class.

There's a proper way to play a job type now? Oh shi... I guess I must be playing my AT completely wrong then http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif Whacking stuff with melee and such since you know... they get a 4 S grade melee weapons. Oh yes, AT isn't supposed to melee despite that! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

If AT was only meant to be a support bitch, it'd just have S grade whips and madoogs with lv 40 support techs. But you know what? It doesn't. It is a job highly skewed to helping the party with support but that's hardly the only thing they're capable of doing.

ATs can take on a whole bunch of roles. They're half-decent meleers. They're adequate at ranged attacks. Their magic is very strong. Yeah, you can do it all as an AT. So how about "doing it all" and helping out your party with at the very least, a heal once in awhile?

My gripe isn't that ATs don't reduce themselves to buff slaves or white mages, oh no. My gripe is that ATs don't capitalize on their best abilities! You can do your ribbon dance a whole hell of a lot better if you're a Wartecher. However, the people that do realize this are good enough to at least throw down a Resta once in a blue moon.

Shadow_Wing

Dec 11, 2007, 12:28 AM

On 2007-12-10 21:04, Soukosa wrote:

On 2007-12-09 19:48, Shadow_Wing wrote:
Just cause the community doesn't play it right, doesn't mean it's the correct way to play a class.

Anyways I'd give it a few months till people finally figure out how to play this class.

There's a proper way to play a job type now? Oh shi... I guess I must be playing my AT completely wrong then http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif Whacking stuff with melee and such since you know... they get a 4 S grade melee weapons. Oh yes, AT isn't supposed to melee despite that! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

If AT was only meant to be a support bitch, it'd just have S grade whips and madoogs with lv 40 support techs. But you know what? It doesn't. It is a job highly skewed to helping the party with support but that's hardly the only thing they're capable of doing.

You might want to see my AT in action before u make assumptions on what I'm trying to get across, cause I don't feel like ranting the same point over and over and over and over and over and over again.

My pallet for argument sake though:
Shadoog/Saber
Shadoog/Dagger
Shadoog/Whip
Madoog/Wand
Madoog/Wand
Twin Handguns

Pretty sure this isn't a pallet of a "support bitch"

[ This Message was edited by: Shadow_Wing on 2007-12-10 21:50 ]

CelestialBlade

Dec 11, 2007, 08:02 AM

On 2007-12-10 21:28, Shadow_Wing wrote:

On 2007-12-10 21:04, Soukosa wrote:

On 2007-12-09 19:48, Shadow_Wing wrote:
Just cause the community doesn't play it right, doesn't mean it's the correct way to play a class.

Anyways I'd give it a few months till people finally figure out how to play this class.

There's a proper way to play a job type now? Oh shi... I guess I must be playing my AT completely wrong then http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif Whacking stuff with melee and such since you know... they get a 4 S grade melee weapons. Oh yes, AT isn't supposed to melee despite that! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

If AT was only meant to be a support bitch, it'd just have S grade whips and madoogs with lv 40 support techs. But you know what? It doesn't. It is a job highly skewed to helping the party with support but that's hardly the only thing they're capable of doing.

You might want to see my AT in action before u make assumptions on what I'm trying to get across, cause I don't feel like ranting the same point over and over and over and over and over and over again.

My pallet for argument sake though:
Shadoog/Saber
Shadoog/Dagger
Shadoog/Whip
Madoog/Wand
Madoog/Wand
Twin Handguns

Pretty sure this isn't a pallet of a "support bitch"

But you're my support bitch ;P I mean uh what

To anyone who thinks ATs should do nothing but support, how long do you think it takes to buff? Just buff, heal when needed, and the rest of the time, YOU CAN GO ON OFFENSE D: Gasp. Any good AT should be able to balance support and offense easily. GTs do the same thing.

ljkkjlcm9

Dec 11, 2007, 09:00 AM

I have cards and handguns on my AT palette as well, because my AT switches to AF, and they share those weapons...
something like
Madoog/Whip
Madoog/Saber
Madoog/Dagger
Card/Wand
Handgun/Wand
Madoog/Wand(buff set)

all Madoogs except buff set have giresta. The other spell would be the gi-element of the area, when I get them leveled. AKA, if i get surrounded, I cast say, gidiga, and push them back a bit. The other wands have giresta, and either megid, ramegid, or diga. It keeps me at range with my ranged weapons. But every weapon pair has giresta except for the buff set.

THE JACKEL

Schubalts

Dec 11, 2007, 05:27 PM

thunder-ray

Dec 12, 2007, 05:23 AM

there is no proper way to play any class people can play their classes however way they want to play it. AT doesnt have to play support all the time thats the whole reason why they made it as they can use melee weapons for more options to the players playing style.

SolomonGrundy

Dec 12, 2007, 07:23 PM

if you want a party that appreciates support, or is more likely to provide and desire support, play in smaller parties. When it comes to partiers of 6, the difficulty meter has been set to low zero

I send up a message announcing rebuff. I wait a few secs, then buff. Whomever is there, great. I will rebuff when facing enemies like worms/svaltus because I think it helps. I won't reverser fFs who make zero effort to avoid the barta in the first place though.

I debuff a lot because I'm leveling them.

Shadow_Wing

Dec 12, 2007, 07:29 PM

Even then, duo makes this game easy lol, only challenge I get is from Hive S2 now a days =S

Esufer

Dec 13, 2007, 10:11 AM

You don't like getting frozen?
Buy a Freeze / Resist.

Broodstar1337

Dec 13, 2007, 10:53 AM

phantasy star universe (xbox 360 version)
esufer - level 85 - cast - male - acrotecher (10)

Whatever gets you out of doing your job, right?

Esufer

Dec 13, 2007, 11:19 AM

On 2007-12-13 07:53, Broodstar1337 wrote:
phantasy star universe (xbox 360 version)
esufer - level 85 - cast - male - acrotecher (10)

Whatever gets you out of doing your job, right?

I think I'm gonna need major surgery after that devastating comeback. Play the class how you want, if people are being asses about playing it, don't moan about them, just do your job as you're doing it and hope they follow your example.

Broodstar1337

Dec 13, 2007, 01:06 PM

On 2007-12-13 08:19, Esufer wrote:

On 2007-12-13 07:53, Broodstar1337 wrote:
phantasy star universe (xbox 360 version)
esufer - level 85 - cast - male - acrotecher (10)

Whatever gets you out of doing your job, right?

I think I'm gonna need major surgery after that devastating comeback. Play the class how you want, if people are being asses about playing it, don't moan about them, just do your job as you're doing it and hope they follow your example.

What the fuck do you think I've been doing? Rather than inspire others to do something, instead my efforts ended up making other techers think they don't have to play the field. Techers support. That's their best function. The guys who really want to capitalize on the whip should at least play Wartecher, but even they will use Resta and Reverser.

And telling me to buy a Resist unit or put up with forces that don't support is snobbish at best. For starters, I don't have that kind of money on me, nor do I have the time to solo missions over and over to get an armor unit that's merely situational at best. It's easier for a Force to play support than it is to grab a damn boss drop.

Schubalts

Dec 13, 2007, 02:20 PM

On 2007-12-13 10:06, Broodstar1337 wrote:

On 2007-12-13 08:19, Esufer wrote:

On 2007-12-13 07:53, Broodstar1337 wrote:
phantasy star universe (xbox 360 version)
esufer - level 85 - cast - male - acrotecher (10)

Whatever gets you out of doing your job, right?

I think I'm gonna need major surgery after that devastating comeback. Play the class how you want, if people are being asses about playing it, don't moan about them, just do your job as you're doing it and hope they follow your example.

What the fuck do you think I've been doing? Rather than inspire others to do something, instead my efforts ended up making other techers think they don't have to play the field. Techers support. That's their best function. The guys who really want to capitalize on the whip should at least play Wartecher, but even they will use Resta and Reverser.

And telling me to buy a Resist unit or put up with forces that don't support is snobbish at best. For starters, I don't have that kind of money on me, nor do I have the time to solo missions over and over to get an armor unit that's merely situational at best. It's easier for a Force to play support than it is to grab a damn boss drop.

This discussion has happened multiple times all over this forum: Until there is a type that can ONLY use support techs, nobody HAS to use them.

Jakosifer

Dec 13, 2007, 04:51 PM

You're right, no-one HAS to use them, but a SUPPORT BASED CLASS should ya know....Use it to benefit their team. Ya know, cuz although they may be playing the class for "Fun" and "How they want to", their "Fun" in general can ruin it for who they may be partying with. lol, this reminds me of the lolmeleeforces who refused to buff in PSO...-_-;

If you play a class that has support....USE IT. Especially one thats geared the best for it.

Schubalts

Dec 13, 2007, 07:00 PM

That's like saying that every one who can use a saber should use it. Or that everyone who can use shotguns should use them. Support techs are a PART of Acrotechers appeal to people.

What about the Fortetechers that only used support techs and ranged weapons? Should THEY have all been using attack techs just because Fortetecher had the highest TP and tech caps? Should everybody with access to spears go around spamming Majarra on everything, even if they prefer Daggas or Robado over it? Should everybody with a rifle use Killer Shot? Ooh ooh, what about Figunners? Should every Figunner use double sabers, too?

Come up with something better than "you have it, you must use it".

Jakosifer

Dec 13, 2007, 08:16 PM

Weapons =/= Latent Abilities, I couldn't care less about what weapons people use (lol @ Killer Shot and Double Sabers btw), I care about contribution to the TEAM. If you're solo, do whatever the hell you please. But if you're in a team, at least make an effort to ya know..BE A HELP instead of simply getting in the way. I don't care if an AT has their techs capped or even at level 1, as long as they make an effort to at least help the team get by, I find that quite admirable. Instead of spreading enemies all over the place with Whip PA's and letting people stay frozen/sleep for an hour while they jack it to their character doing Vishi Grudda.

Then again I'm forgetting that no-one on PSU knows the definition of Teamwork so my point is moot. Soloing is much less frustrating than being in a party full of selfish ass people with no group coordination anyway. Carry on.

[ This Message was edited by: Jakomay_07 on 2007-12-13 17:18 ]

Shadow_Wing

Dec 13, 2007, 08:39 PM

Well ok, as I stated before, you can play a class however you like but it doesn't mean it's right.

With that said, an AT who doesn't buff is what? A gimp wartecher? A gimp Fortetecher? Why play a class that is actually based around their support abilities as something isn't support? Which I also might add, a large amount of damage comes from our buffs, and in this case both party as well as yourself. In addition to that, choosing a class based purely on their weapon choice is kinda moot, S class whips are nothing special, a WT wield them many times better than we do anyways.

Sure you people can flaunt around your attitude of "Just cause they have it doesn't nessarily mean they should use it" but at the same time this implies you'll allow that Fortefighter to use a handgun full time, a Fortetecher use a bow or a saber all the time, ect.

All in all, it all comes back to this:
"You can play a class however you like but it doesn't mean it's right."

Chaosgyro

Dec 13, 2007, 11:34 PM

Actually, I disagree. You CAN'T play a class however you fucking well please. Some ways just suck, pure and simple. Can't deal with it? Go /wrist and cry a goddamn river. A Fortefighter using nothing but handguns won't make it past C rank missions. It's the same with a Fortetecher trying to beat on things with a saber all day long.

You asshats can sit in your tinfoil towers all day crying about how it's your precious $10 a month, but it's just window dressing on snobbery, selfishness, and blatant, willful idiocy.

Case closed.

Lyric

Dec 14, 2007, 12:33 AM

I treat my AT job the exact same way I treated my GT job: Assisted the party first, dealt damage last. Which is how it should be, and hopefully people will realize that soon. It's fine to play the way you want, but when you're on a team you should help out where you can, when you can.

Sekani

Dec 14, 2007, 02:49 AM

On 2007-12-13 20:34, Chaosgyro wrote:
Actually, I disagree. You CAN'T play a class however you fucking well please. Some ways just suck, pure and simple. Can't deal with it? Go /wrist and cry a goddamn river. A Fortefighter using nothing but handguns won't make it past C rank missions. It's the same with a Fortetecher trying to beat on things with a saber all day long.

Doesn't matter what you like. Both methods kill enemies. Hell, these days pretty much just staring at an enemy creature will kill it.

If the party's survival somehow depended on proper support then maybe I'd agree with you, but unless you're just a pathetic PSU player you can clear missions with (almost) your bare hands. Support techs don't matter that much.

Zorafim

Dec 14, 2007, 02:50 AM

This is kind of my argument.

"It's my $10 a month."

"It's our $50 a month."

It's bad enough when non-ATs do it, but you could expect that since their support tech levels aren't very high. But I see no reason not to have a full team buffed if you choose a job, THE job, that's based on support.
It's not like it's hard, I've tried it. I have more trouble taking down a Pannon than buffing the party.

Anduril

Dec 14, 2007, 03:03 AM

I've come to a breakdown. ATs if you want to use whips, go for it. But please, PLEASE, at least equip a TECH-mag with Resta and Reverser, even if they are at a crappily low level, even if you don't buff. Resta and Reverser are beneficial to all, especially when it comes to finishing a mission efficiently.

Dealer

Dec 14, 2007, 03:04 AM

If you're an acrotecher, get the buffs and debuffs - and get them to 31. Get resta and reverser with the crazy range too. If you aren't, you should be a wartecher, guntecher, or fortetecher instead. It really is that simple.

I agree with the 3 posts by Jakomay, Shadowwing, and ChaosGyro.

AT really is a buffing / support class. You should work at maxing your damage output for when everything is buffed and debuffed, but only then. To say you don't use them as an AT IS labelling yourself as misinformed on the classes, because you give up other stats for that sole purpose.

Obviously the best party has one AT with 31+ buffs doing main support, and 5 damage dealing characters. If the mission is difficult then a FT, WT, or GT can help with the heals and reversers nicely. And I really mean help - because any of those options does more damage than an AT. To ask the second support character to stop attacking to heal or buff more than you as an AT is really slowing the team down. It also reflects really poorly on you because buffing and healing should only take 20-30% of one players time, and you SHOULD be the most equipped to do it.

[ This Message was edited by: Dealer on 2007-12-14 00:07 ]

Chaosgyro

Dec 14, 2007, 03:27 AM

On 2007-12-13 23:49, Sekani wrote:

On 2007-12-13 20:34, Chaosgyro wrote:
Actually, I disagree. You CAN'T play a class however you fucking well please. Some ways just suck, pure and simple. Can't deal with it? Go /wrist and cry a goddamn river. A Fortefighter using nothing but handguns won't make it past C rank missions. It's the same with a Fortetecher trying to beat on things with a saber all day long.

Doesn't matter what you like. Both methods kill enemies. Hell, these days pretty much just staring at an enemy creature will kill it.

If the party's survival somehow depended on proper support then maybe I'd agree with you, but unless you're just a pathetic PSU player you can clear missions with (almost) your bare hands. Support techs don't matter that much.

Ah yes..the old "PSU is easymode" copout.

From the comfort of our message board windows I'm oh-so-inclined to agree with you. This game is a cake-walk, I don't need anyone but my trusty slicer blah blah.

However, get in game and suddenly reality sets in. No materr what, there comes a few moments when you're a split second too slow and suddenly you're lying on the floor frozen or paralyzed.

Guess what? No amount of yelling "I can't die, PSU is EZmodinglol!" is going to save your ass. Your only hope is a timely resta and reverser from the AT. But..oh damn, he's off whipping an ollaka in a corner stroking himself to how awesome he is. Hope you don't mind buying a full round of scapes every mission, because it's really a toss up as to whether that guy would toss you a moon or tell you to stop faking - no one dies in PSU easymode while the Grudda machine is going.

Guildenstern

Dec 14, 2007, 06:50 AM

On 2007-12-10 17:21, Zorafim wrote:

On 2007-12-10 13:54, Artea wrote:
People who play any class can be whatever the fuck they want to be.

How's that?

Have fun being a meleeing white mage!

This isn't FFXI. Stop comparing the two. There's no similiarity between the classes of this game and that game. AT is not a White Mage. It's not going to become a White Mage even if you repeat it. AT has a LOT more options for dealing damage than a White Mage will ever have in a million years. Trying to shove AT into the 'healer class' box will not work.

I rarely party with strangers, and I -am- the AT in some circumstances (when I'm not on FT), and if people can't learn to multitask well enough to both tag and keep people alive and buffed at the same time, they need to retake AT class.

...Also the idiot melee'ers in random parties need to learn that charging directly into certain groups of mobs with a PA that doesn't juggle or flinch will get you killed right quickly. Don't expect the healer to wade in there after your dumb butt. >_>; If you can't manage not to die in the time it takes me to finish one whip combo and/or debuff cast to tag all the mobs, you fail at melee classes.

RemiusTA

Dec 14, 2007, 08:14 AM

AT has a LOT more options for dealing damage than a White Mage will ever have in a million years.

But unfortunally less than any other class in this game

Sekani

Dec 14, 2007, 09:39 AM

On 2007-12-14 00:27, Chaosgyro wrote:

Guess what? No amount of yelling "I can't die, PSU is EZmodinglol!" is going to save your ass. Your only hope is a timely resta and reverser from the AT. But..oh damn, he's off whipping an ollaka in a corner stroking himself to how awesome he is. Hope you don't mind buying a full round of scapes every mission, because it's really a toss up as to whether that guy would toss you a moon or tell you to stop faking - no one dies in PSU easymode while the Grudda machine is going.

Nope, definitely wouldn't want to waste that oh-so-rare and oh-so-valuable Scape Doll, now would I? I mean, it's not like something bad will happen if I die, like the whole party loses an S-rank or something.

The "easymode defense" isn't a copout, it's the truth. But if you're too much of an elitist hard-ass to admit it, nothing I can do about that.

Rayokarna

Dec 14, 2007, 09:39 AM

Im not one to care if an AT supports or not, I have loads of Scapes, Buff items, Healing items and traps. What I want them to do is to pull them away from the stupid whip, and use some offecnive Techs.

Most random ATs(quite a few, cause my connection jerks up when Im with AOI players and I DC when a Whip or a Slicer is doing big damage) just use the whip on anything they see. I was doing True Darkness and everybody agreed in the party not to use Whips or a Slicer cause I'll DC.

There were two ATs in this party and as soon as it was half way through the first block, the pull out there whips on an enemy. But this wasn't any enemy, it was one of the flying, melee resistant enemies. WTF. The continued to spam there Whips until I eventually DCed. I was like WTF, does no-one stick to there word.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif just use something else insted of that damn whip sometimes.

Schubalts

Dec 14, 2007, 09:55 AM

On 2007-12-14 05:14, RemiusTA wrote:

AT has a LOT more options for dealing damage than a White Mage will ever have in a million years.

But unfortunally less than any other class in this game

Melee, guns and techs. The hell are you talking about? Oh, right, they're a hybrid class. There is no way anybody can be dumb enough to seriously say that a hybrid class is bad at something just because a specialized class can do it better. The POINT is that they CAN use melee, and they CAN use guns, and they CAN use techs. Only Wartecher, and to a much lesser extent, Guntecher and Fortetecher, can use all three kinds of weapons.

Support is nowhere NEAR the only thing Acrotechers can do. You can't beat a mission without maxed out buffs? You shouldn't be in that mission, or you should play smarter in that mission.

And I brought up weapon types because nobody seems to give a damn about what ANYBODY does; unless that person can use techs, that is! It's retarded to only expect one set of classes(or one class: ever see anyone bitch about Wartechers, Guntechers, or today's Fortetechers not being nurses and buffbots?) to HAVE to use ONE of their abilities. It IS the same thing as expecting every Fortefighter to be swinging a spear, sword or axe, or Fortegunner to be using a rifle or grenade launcher, for example.

It. Is. One. Part. Of. The. Class. Not the only part.

thunder-ray

Dec 14, 2007, 01:24 PM

i have no problem with a AT that wants to use his whips and melee mobs since it is a new class alot of people are gonna wana try something new since it is cool to see a force that has the option to do melee. I see no probelm what so ever with a AT using whips most the time when their in my party. However i dont care for whips to much. They do low dmg and i cant get the feel of just doing low dmg and casting SE most the time im spamming it. I would mostly use a wand equiped with attack techs and a mag equiped with resta and reverser. Why? because the stats of a AT isnt that great even though they can take a little more damage then a fortetecher could. I also prefer to use resta on fortefighters at all times or other classes that can take more hits then i can, cuz it benfits them as it does me the more hp they have the better for me to use tech dmg and save the whole party money on scape dolls since their quite costly these days. This is just what i would do i since its my own playing style.

thunder-ray

Dec 14, 2007, 01:28 PM

Just like everybody else has their own playing style as well i dont get mad or upset if they dont wana play support. Some people might wana try something different and make use of the option of melee in AT. But for me because i dont care for whips to much i would make use of my support techs like giresta buffs and maybe debuffs (of course there no point in using debuffs if i have lvl 30 attack techs) since those would be usefull not only to the party but me as well. ive always since the pso days favored resta and anti but now since reverser is the anti now would prefer reverser and resta on my mag since its cheaper to use techs then my healing mates since they can be costly at times. To make sure i make my post clear thats just the way i would do it not saying im better then anyone else or something as long as your helping me kill the monster i dont care if you wana use whips go for it its not my place to tell another player what he/she should use its his right to use whatever he wants to use.

[ This Message was edited by: thunder-ray on 2007-12-14 10:34 ]

thunder-ray

Dec 14, 2007, 01:34 PM

Zorafim

Dec 14, 2007, 05:01 PM

On 2007-12-14 03:50, Guildenstern wrote:This isn't FFXI. Stop comparing the two.

I wasn't. There are other games besides FFXI that have white mages, even if that's not what they're called. Healers in RPGs normally have some option besides healing that they can do. Sure, they can hit on things with their hammers or what have you, but it's fairly obvious that the guy with the giant sword is going to heavily overpower you.

Yes, healers can do damage. After all, in the enormous amount of time you spend not buffing or healing, due to their being no need, what else are you going to do? But if you're going to focus on doing damage, why bother with the weakest offensive class in the game? You could easily pick a class that's actually pretty good at it, and preform much better overall. Or, you could do your job, and boost everyone else's damage by that same amount, as well as keep them alive and healthy, without spending too much effort.

Shadow_Wing

Dec 14, 2007, 05:19 PM

Never did understand why we got mechguns....

Broodstar1337

Dec 14, 2007, 06:42 PM

On 2007-12-14 14:19, Shadow_Wing wrote:
Never did understand why we got mechguns....

Same reason why we got whips and shadoogs. Because they're a hell of a support weapon and inflict status effects very well.

Broodstar1337

Dec 16, 2007, 12:10 PM

Finished a Lightning Beasts run a couple minutes ago. Ended up booting an ingrate for demanding buffs and not even having the courtesy to thank me afterward. We were at one of the parts in the level where a flight of stairs takes us two stories below where we were before. The guy I booted was a fortegunner and lobbed grenades down at everybody. Everyone else is pretty much meleeing the ever-holy piss out of the enemies and my buffs were running out. So I rebuff everyone except the guy that's out of range.

Granted, I use grinded 3* wands and madoogs to handle buffs, so I have enough PP to go around. I can certainly afford to throw around buffs. 280 PP total down the shitter for every party buff. When we get to a point where it takes over a half hour to get through a mission, you can't waste PP like that.

I didn't even get as much of a thank you. Normally, this doesn't even irk me, since I just buff the party without them even saying a word. But if you can step away from the game for five seconds to ask for buffs, you can take five more seconds to thank the guy who buffed you. Didn't happen, and as a result, I had to put a motherfucker in his place.

Shiro_Ryuu

Dec 16, 2007, 04:00 PM

I was wanting a class for my female newman alt that can do both melee and attack techs. I went AT w/ her, and I really loved the speed of both melee and attack magic, but I felt a bit weak. I did do what I can to support the team, using buffs, healing, but I didn't really like the weak melee, so I just went back to Wartecher with her and I'm loving it, its more like the HUnewearl/Red Mage type class I wanted.

Aviva

Dec 19, 2007, 03:18 AM

On 2007-12-09 14:31, Sekani wrote:
Eventually you'll all learn that acrotecher is not a support class.

only class with lvl 40 support spells sounds pretty....oh whats that word...SUPPORT class to me...hmmm

thunder-ray

Dec 19, 2007, 07:15 AM

Yeah they are the support claas since they have lvl 40 support spells. However alot of AT dont play support that much cuz they want to spam whips and make use of their other options rather then make sure that the party is not sleeped or frozen. Its kinda sad that I see more support effort from WT and GT then from our AT class thats suppose to do support. In the end when you look at it in a certain way AT's dont really have to do support if they dont want its really the choose of the player that uses the class even if his classes main job is support.

Reipard

Dec 19, 2007, 10:01 AM

AT's dont really have to do support if they dont want its really the choose of the player that uses the class even if his classes main job is support.

'Course they don't HAVE to.

Guntechers can ignore their class' focus and use nothing but Sabers and single daggers too. They'll still suck at being a Guntecher though.

panzer_unit

Dec 19, 2007, 10:25 AM

On 2007-12-14 06:55, Schubalts wrote:
Melee, guns and techs. The hell are you talking about? Oh, right, they're a hybrid class. There is no way anybody can be dumb enough to seriously say that a hybrid class is bad at something just because a specialized class can do it better.
...
And I brought up weapon types because nobody seems to give a damn about what ANYBODY does; unless that person can use techs, that is! It's retarded to only expect one set of classes(or one class: ever see anyone bitch about Wartechers, Guntechers, or today's Fortetechers not being nurses and buffbots?) to HAVE to use ONE of their abilities.

What about when a specialized class' off suit is better than your hybrid's "versatility"? Fortefighter gets lv20 bullets and enough ATP to put their handgun somewhere on par with everything AT has for range. Fortegunner and melee, same deal. They're good attack techers, but I don't know what that counts for compared to FT any more.

It's true that people bitch out ATs to use their support techs and ignore all the rest of their abilities. You can do support work with more than support techs... an Acrotecher has a lot of abilities that can be used to help teammates deal more damage or prevent them from taking hits. Maybe teammates would recognize them better if more AT's could be troubled to pull 'em out; defensive SE's, stagger-locking, etc. Instead a lot of 'em are trying to be damage MVP's with Spinning Strike which is lol. My grandma hits harder.

[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-12-20 07:24 ]

thunder-ray

Dec 20, 2007, 01:52 AM

Yeah, when it comes down to it it really is all about teamwork. AT just play a big role as the support since they have reverser and sol can be cosly when you run out of sols to heal the team. At the same time other classes have their own role to play to make running missions easier if each player helps each other out. It makes running missions alot better if all the players in a party support each other. Like i said before each class plays a big role in a party. FF are the hp tanks, fortegunners support the fighters with SE or to hit enemys that the fighters cant hit and the techers are the ones that support all of the classes by healing and using reverser to rid us of SE. When you really look at it all classes support each other in a certain way.

Schubalts

Dec 20, 2007, 04:14 PM

On 2007-12-19 07:25, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-12-14 06:55, Schubalts wrote:
Melee, guns and techs. The hell are you talking about? Oh, right, they're a hybrid class. There is no way anybody can be dumb enough to seriously say that a hybrid class is bad at something just because a specialized class can do it better.
...
And I brought up weapon types because nobody seems to give a damn about what ANYBODY does; unless that person can use techs, that is! It's retarded to only expect one set of classes(or one class: ever see anyone bitch about Wartechers, Guntechers, or today's Fortetechers not being nurses and buffbots?) to HAVE to use ONE of their abilities.

What about when a specialized class' off suit is better than your hybrid's "versatility"? Fortefighter gets lv20 bullets and enough ATP to put their handgun somewhere on par with everything AT has for range. Fortegunner and melee, same deal. They're good attack techers, but I don't know what that counts for compared to FT any more.

It's true that people bitch out ATs to use their support techs and ignore all the rest of their abilities. You can do support work with more than support techs... an Acrotecher has a lot of abilities that can be used to help teammates deal more damage or prevent them from taking hits. Maybe teammates would recognize them better if more AT's could be troubled to pull 'em out; defensive SE's, stagger-locking, etc. Instead a lot of 'em are trying to be damage MVP's with Spinning Strike which is lol. My grandma hits harder.

[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-12-20 07:24 ]

How many people who bitch about Acrotechers think of anything other than support techs as support? The melee Acrotechers people bitch at for using whips are using defensive and offensive SEs by shocking, silencing, infecting, and stunning entire groups of monsters at once. And the ones who favor guns over melee; they're laying down SEs, too.

As for a specialist outshining Acrotechers in something, let me ask one question: Can a Fortefighter or Fortegunner use any techs at all? Can a Fortetecher survive fighting with a melee weapon for long? That is what versatility is: having a weapon for every situation.

I just think that people need to stop bringing mentalities from MMOs with very specific character classes to PSU. There is no camping in PSU, there is no downtime spent resting between monster spawns, there are no Black Mages/Wizards/Elementalists who can't do anything but blow things up, there are no White Mages/Clerics/Priests/Acolytes who can't do anything but heal or buff people.

panzer_unit

Dec 20, 2007, 05:42 PM

On 2007-12-20 13:14, Schubalts wrote:
How many people who bitch about Acrotechers think of anything other than support techs as support? The melee Acrotechers people bitch at for using whips are using defensive and offensive SEs by shocking, silencing, infecting, and stunning entire groups of monsters at once. And the ones who favor guns over melee; they're laying down SEs, too.

As for a specialist outshining Acrotechers in something, let me ask one question: Can a Fortefighter or Fortegunner use any techs at all? Can a Fortetecher survive fighting with a melee weapon for long? That is what versatility is: having a weapon for every situation.

While the actual game difficulty makes class differences academic... there's still a sense of how each relates in terms of its expected role.

AT's versatility* does not amount to a relative advantage in strength compared to specialized jobs the way the fighter/gunner classes are balanced. What it does is make sure they've got a full set of options against everything solo (high-level buffs even out the strength disadvantage compared to 'rides) and a wide variety of physical ways to keep mobs off their teammates backs or pinned down for offensive guys to deal their optimal damage.

e.g. is the AT whipping Earth Vandas with Lightning because it does more damage, or with Earth because it shuts them up? How are these guys choosing what to shoot and what SE to apply... is it what's most damaging or what's most helpful?

On the same note, gunners are crowd control. Nobody needs it and they do crap damage compared to fighters, but that doesn't change the fact that gunners are really good at stopping crowds of monsters with guns. One can only hope what a class is good at will have some practical application sometime besides the abilities that are also good at tagging a number of targets before your fighter goes over 9000 with the power-move on Chikki and kills everything.

* (except possibly attack techs, but I've never seen an AT use them except just spamming one to level it up. AT and WT have roughly the same offensive tech power so I'd expect that they can upstage non-techers with it in the right situations.)

SolomonGrundy

Dec 20, 2007, 05:43 PM

I did not want to whine about this in general, but I guess this is the proper forum for it.

with the FT improvement to tech damage, there is now no real second place techer (for tech damage). ++TP, +rod TP, 31+ techs, and +20% damage w rods, mean that ATs do perhaps 60% of the damage with techs that FTs do.

So if I want to buff and use a whip, because that's all I got, then leave me be, I just got the (relative) nerf.

/wrist

PS: I use sol atmoizers, not reverser.

Shadow_Wing

Dec 20, 2007, 06:15 PM

AT is a hybrid support class, specializing in supportive techs while having the ability to deal some pretty decent overall damage. I consider these types offensive support classes in the how they are able to dish out damage while having the ability to use traditional support techniques (and in this case "technique" is used in both literal and figurative forms).

How I've always seen em and how it should be played as.

Needless to say support is as convoluted term here, due to the nature of the game and it varies a lot from person to person. Take for example this:

panzer_unit stated that silencing a group of poo flingers is a useful supportive technique. Where is I consider stun locking a more useful support technique in those cases and usually use proper elements due to the fact that a dead mob is the best kind of mob.

Me personally get complimented a lot on my style of game play where I don't really necessarily use SEs unless it really requires it, and anyways gunners do a much better job of it than whips. There are times to do things and other times it's better to do another thing, it's why there are a lot of bad ATs out there since they don't realize when the proper time to use anything.

beatrixkiddo

Dec 20, 2007, 10:56 PM

The best is when you play as a nurse as I do when I play GT (run to reverser/resta people, etc), and get frozen/sleep'd while saving someone... and they run off http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Broodstar1337

Dec 20, 2007, 10:57 PM

On 2007-12-20 19:56, beatrixkiddo wrote:
The best is when you play as a nurse as I do when I play GT (run to reverser/resta people, etc), and get frozen/sleep'd while saving someone... and they run off http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Story of my life. Unfortunately.

Shiro_Ryuu

Dec 20, 2007, 11:28 PM

I agree with Panzer that silencing Vandas is the best way to take them down because, well, they can't do ANYTHING at all when Silenced. I was fighting a silenced vanda one time, I walked up to him, did nothing, and you know what the vanda did? Nothing, absolutely NOTHING. Shocking them would be useless, and if anything, make them even more dangerous [although they don't even use melee at all].

Shadow_Wing

Dec 20, 2007, 11:55 PM

On 2007-12-20 20:28, Shiroryuu wrote:
I agree with Panzer that silencing Vandas is the best way to take them down because, well, they can't do ANYTHING at all when Silenced. I was fighting a silenced vanda one time, I walked up to him, did nothing, and you know what the vanda did? Nothing, absolutely NOTHING. Shocking them would be useless, and if anything, make them even more dangerous [although they don't even use melee at all].

Actually there's only one kind of mob more dangerous shocked than silenced, and those are those yohmei robots. Makes them spam spells a bit more often than usual. And actually maneuvering is the best way to deal with Vandas, they have a very predictable AI and well it's easy to out maneuver their diga.

And I don't like relying on the Whip SE rate, it's ok I guess, but when I'm in melee range of a group of things, I rather not rely on an "ok" SE applier. Then again I don't use whips all that much to begin with lol.

[ This Message was edited by: Shadow_Wing on 2007-12-20 20:57 ]

Broodstar1337

Dec 21, 2007, 12:06 AM

panzer_unit

Dec 21, 2007, 10:51 AM

On 2007-12-20 15:15, Shadow_Wing wrote:
AT is a hybrid support class, specializing in supportive techs while having the ability to deal some pretty decent overall damage.
...
panzer_unit stated that silencing a group of poo flingers is a useful supportive technique. Where is I consider stun locking a more useful support technique in those cases and usually use proper elements due to the fact that a dead mob is the best kind of mob.

See, the damage is something I disagree with. Pick a teammate at random: unless you're cranking out lv40 Megisar for yourself and ignoring everyone else, they are almost certainly more damaging than your AT unless attack techs are competitive with what everyone else is doing (again: never seen an AT using attack techs for real, just leveling 'em).

Hence suggesting that AT's learn to use all their equipment in support of overall party DPS instead of concerning themselves with their own maximum damage output. Your loss is less than the net gain.

Sometimes it's not even a tradeoff, just a matter of being smart about what you're doing. Suppose you've got a dam-tech spamming FT or a gunner opening a can with grenades or laser on some targets: take half a second and reposition so you push your target INTO that AOE with your mechgun or PA knockback, instead of just sending them off in whatever direction you're pointed when you decide to start shooting. It's not a big deal on your end AT ALL but that choice could amount to like 3k more damage being done over the next couple seconds.

SolomonGrundy

Dec 21, 2007, 01:46 PM

but why can't I be allowed to do decent tech damage and NOT be a fortetecher. I still don't get the PP redcution a FT does, not the UBAR TP rods, I jsut don't want to use a gi tech that hits for 800 (max), and watch a FT sit right next to be using the same gi tech and hit for 1400 (max).

that just sucks.

Broodstar1337

Dec 21, 2007, 03:10 PM

On 2007-12-21 10:46, SolomonGrundy wrote:
but why can't I be allowed to do decent tech damage and NOT be a fortetecher. I still don't get the PP redcution a FT does, not the UBAR TP rods, I jsut don't want to use a gi tech that hits for 800 (max), and watch a FT sit right next to be using the same gi tech and hit for 1400 (max).

that just sucks.

You hit faster. You'll probably end up doing more damage because of sheer speed alone.

panzer_unit

Dec 21, 2007, 03:56 PM

On 2007-12-21 10:46, SolomonGrundy wrote:
but why can't I be allowed to do decent tech damage and NOT be a fortetecher.
How bad can it be? You've got the same TP almost and a 10% speed buff that stacks with /quick units. Just cast a lot, right? At least you're not a Wartecher.

TetsuyaHikari

Dec 21, 2007, 05:11 PM

Well, I just started an AT not too terribly long ago and I can understand the points you are making, but..it's nothing to get your panties in a wad over, honestly.

Things like this are going to happen. You just have to make the best out of the situations you do actually have control in and provide the help that you can. I've been frozen and put to sleep before while on my AT and there would be times where I would just sit there and have to wait till it wears off or I die.

You can't just go around saying, "What the fuck is your problem?! I'm support damnit!" and get all upset over it. Fact is..guys who leave a support character behind like that couldn't care less what you had to say if they were willingly choosing to leave you frozen or asleep.

I can understand how you would say, "AT is support" because of the level 40 support techs, but..by your logic, that's also saying, "Protranser MUST use traps!" because they have access to the EX versions.

The support techs are there for the type, sure..but by no means are they obligated to buying them or trading the frags for ANY of them. If this was something they HAD to do, then they wouldn't have a choice in the matter.

Anyway, I'm not getting upset with you or anything of the sort..I agree with some of your points, but I do believe you shouldn't get so upset over it. If it becomes that much of a problem, maybe you should just switch to a different type.

Shadow_Wing

Dec 21, 2007, 06:19 PM

On 2007-12-21 07:51, panzer_unit wrote:
Stuff

But in another case, sure yea they can assist in SE application but whips are a lousy candidate to use em with, not only are you in melee range, and in potential damage range, they're really keep you prone to damage. Why I use stun locking than relying on SE application. Whip SE may look good on paper but really it's pretty lametastic SE applier.

Rayokarna

Dec 21, 2007, 09:16 PM

I think we can all agree that AT is not based on just support but leans that way in terms of playing style.

The biggest issues here is the fact AT dont use everything they have to be effective. All is needed is a litttle wake up call into what they can do. One of the biggest things are is there lack of usage when it comes to attack techs. AT seem to complain that ever since the Rod buff, there attack tech have been rendered useless. You may not have the pure damage there but at least you have attack techs at all and not just that, you have them to lvl 30 and with a crapload of TP to back it up and the casting speed enhancement. All ATs need to do is pull their head from their ass and look to see what is available. If this case of 'Whip Fever' sticks to the AT name, we wont see the game style of ATs changge until the Masterclasses are released(if they decide to change).

Balanced Pallet in my view

Tech-MAG/Wand (4 offencive techs)
Twin Handguns
Twin Dagger
Card/Saber
R-Mag/Whip
Tech-Mag/Wand (4 support techs)

With a set up like that, a AT is ready for anything. but most of them stay with the Whip and use mates to heal themselves.

Sorry if I come off a little hostile, Im just trying to get my point across.

TetsuyaHikari

Dec 22, 2007, 05:35 AM

Hahaha. Everyone comes off as hostile on PSO-World when they try to get their point across http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Want to hear what my setup is? (If I can remember it correctly, that is >.>)

Card/Wand (Resta/Reverser)
Tech-Mag/Wand (buffs)
Tech-Mag/Wand (debuffs/Giresta)
Tech-Mag/Wand (Gi attack techs)
Tech-Mag/Wand (Megiverse/Giresta)
Tech-Mag/Wand (Foie, Barta, Diga, Zonde)

Hey! I even remembered the order they are in on my palette, lol.

But yeah, that's my setup, so..I went all for support so I could build up to SE4 and I'm going to stick with the Card instead of the Whip, honestly. My thoughts when picking AT were, "This seems like a great support type. I can get a Whip with it too, but..I'll leave the melee to someone else" since I wouldn't be too terribly strong anyway, lol.

I just wanted the Card to tag enemies while I heal and cure status ailments. Other than that, yeah..I'm full-blown support with my AT. I hardly ever use my attack techs. I just wanted them all set to something so one wouldn't be left on my photon art list, not linked to something http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

SolomonGrundy

Dec 28, 2007, 01:50 AM

I've been playing more Wartecher, and I can see how this competes with AT now. Although I won't be breaking any records for melee damage (I'm a female newman), I can deal it with a variety of weapons, most of which are more fun than single saber/dagger. And the stats on WT are SO good - well, ATA isn't wonderful, but a Solid/Knight gets the job done.

Now that techs have been nerfed for non FTs it's hard for me to get into dealing tech damage now, though, which is a bummer.

Reipard

Dec 28, 2007, 07:28 AM

Techs have been nerfed for non-FTs? Some more information please?

Shadow_Wing

Dec 28, 2007, 02:31 PM

It's not a nerf, it was a buff made to rods <<; I really wish that people wouldn't use the word nerf so freely.

Reipard

Dec 28, 2007, 09:12 PM

Oh. That's not a nerf to anything.

Ranubis89

Dec 30, 2007, 11:28 PM

Heh im a beast acrotecher I am level 100. Sure my buffs arent maxed but giresta is almost maxed and all i usually do is zalure and jellen then run around and heal my comrades

DraginHikari

Dec 31, 2007, 11:33 PM

You're always going to have people who overuse something to the point where it becomes obixious. The whole arugement over AT and Whips bring me back to the days where I would get kicked out of parties for being a Figunner and having even one double saber in my inventory, when Tornado Dance came out it got worse for awhile again. Even though I hardly ever had my double saber out period.

I know quite a few ATs and for the most part all of them handle there class very well all around, but I have seen random ATs that just seem to do is whips. But I've also seen all the other classes people the most dumb things you could possiblely think of. The point is these always exist....

Hehe, on the plus side though, all this gripe over the Acro classes I don't get kicked out of party for just being a Figunner anymore.

SolomonGrundy

Jan 4, 2008, 03:51 AM

On 2007-12-28 18:12, Reipard wrote:
Oh. That's not a nerf to anything.

sure it is, if all tech damage was increased by 300% *except* zonde, zonde would suck (more than it already does now).

So if you buff rods (and they were buffed considerably), you effecively nerf other tech weapons (all 2 of them)

Reipard

Jan 4, 2008, 08:01 AM

sure it is, if all tech damage was increased by 300% *except* zonde, zonde would suck (more than it already does now).

So if you buff rods (and they were buffed considerably), you effecively nerf other tech weapons (all 2 of them)

I don't consider that a nerf, especially since the other two tech weapons aren't any worse off in terms of pure damage and you never had any other options for damage as an Acrotecher to begin with.

Your overall casting speed still makes up for anything an FT can do, trust me.

Chaosgyro

Jan 4, 2008, 10:48 AM

The other guy getting better than you doesn't mean you suddenly got worse. It just means the other guy got better. (funny how that works eh?)

panzer_unit

Jan 4, 2008, 02:56 PM

On 2008-01-04 00:51, SolomonGrundy wrote:
sure it is, if all tech damage was increased by 300% *except* zonde, zonde would suck (more than it already does now).

So if you buff rods (and they were buffed considerably), you effecively nerf other tech weapons (all 2 of them)

... so it's impossible to fix anything that wasn't powerful enough to begin with? All the guys whoring dominant classes/weapons/PA's have a legitimate reason to go BAWWWW whenever someone else gets a boost?

Shadow_Wing

Jan 4, 2008, 05:45 PM

No it's called relative perspective not a nerf. A nerf is where the game developers decide to reduce something, like how they rebalanced elemental %, that is a nerf. Relative perspective on the other hand is when something gets a buff while other similar items don't get the same treatment. It may or may not fix things, but not a nerf in any sense of the word.

Chaosgyro

Jan 4, 2008, 10:37 PM

Is anyone else glad that someone coined the 'nerf' phrase so long ago? Between that, 'buff', and 'debuff' we save ourselves a lot of time and effort. I'd hate needing to run around saying 'well my weapons were reduced in their relative power last update so please affect me with a positive status effect...I hope I don't run into any monsters with negatively impacting status effects this mission'.

Powder Keg

Jan 5, 2008, 05:20 AM

Has everyone gotten the hint yet that most people actually do know that AT is geared towards support, and that they're just bitching about the bitching? I love the random assumption that everyone doesn't know the class is geared towards support. The point to get across has been that telling people what they should do is laughable.

Artea is currently an Acrotecher. His buffs are lvl3, not 4. I use them when everyone else has the same or lower levels. And I'll be damned if I'm sitting in a buff party for hours upon hours doing absolutely nothing. Most people AFK level them with a turbo controller, and I'm surprised no one bitched about that being cheating (I personally don't think it is and don't give a shit, but I'm surprised nonetheless)

Did you bump into an Acrotecher who doesn't use buffs at all? Did you bump into a Protranser that doesn't use traps? And here's one for good measure....do you bump into rangers who don't use silence-related PAs on magic-using enemies (because I actually end up doing that a lot with Jusei-Shiki with good results!!!) UWAAAAHHHHH, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH! .....get over it and move on.

I also laugh at any idiot who claims they'll boot someone for something so petty. I've never ran into anyone who booted someone unless they were playing like an absolute idiot, or just being a dick/AFK'ing too long inside of the mission. Either none of you actually have had the balls to do something like that, or are the only people in the world who think this way (which is a positive note)