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Vantamiath
Jan 13, 2003, 06:49 PM
Seen this thread 4,453,145 times? Ok, lets see it for the 4,453,146th time.

I've noticed on PSOW that any open legit gets thrashed for not liking dupes/dupers.

I made this thread to ask why...

I'm an open legit, which seems to be just as serious nowadays as being a virgin. I see threads on duping being widespread, and the most common answer is "its to late now...complain elsewhere...etc"

Wanna know something? Its my mother fu#@ing right to complain. I pay money to play this game, and I get downsized for barking about people who neglect the contract rules.

Who's the fucking victim here? It seems people have more sympathy for cheaters then legits...WHY?!
Legits are the ones who are most often called noobs, because their Yamatos dont seem to do 1800+ damage.

My most loved answer is people who like to say, "Does it affect you? no so stfu and move on"

I got news...cheating affects everyone. But in reality this isnt the dupers COMPLETE fault, ST has some blame in this...but seriously why F!#! a great game like PSO?

I guess this thread is a plead to any cheaters to reconsiter, even if you think that BKB is a godsend.

now comes the best part...

FLAME ME!!! MOCK MY OPINIONS ABOUT BEING ANTI-CHEATING!!! I LOVE A GOOD ROAST!! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_beer.gif

ABDUR101
Jan 13, 2003, 07:03 PM
On 2003-01-13 15:49, iHATEpsoCHEATERS wrote:
FLAME ME!!! MOCK MY OPINIONS ABOUT BEING ANTI-CHEATING!!! I LOVE A GOOD ROAST!! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_beer.gif


No flame baiting, it's just as bad as flaming. First verbal warning.


And I'll accept as many dupes as I want. I bought the game, I pay for my HL, it's my business. If you don't want to play with someone just because they accept dupes, then thats fine, by all means I'm sure they'll get over it.

And I never see any threads by dupers saying "Man, people need to stop being legit.".

I make an equal trade, if I have an item that someone else wants and they have something I want, I don't care if I'm trading a dupe that someone gave me or if I'm trading a weapon or item I found for a dupe that was made five minutes before the trade.

Why? Because I trade for the items I want, not the hours it took to find them.

Once I give someone a weapon, even if it took 100 hours to find, it's only value is the item itself.

I'll move this to Rants though.

Vantamiath
Jan 13, 2003, 07:26 PM
I love opinions, they get people nowhere and lead to pointless arguments.

I actually agree with your statements, I just dont like the lack of originality in PSO with dupes widespread. I dont think the game is that "fresh" when everyone is using the same items..meh

I guess my only real problem with dupes is that MOST people use them excessivly and generally dont care about others when the level/play, but I agree with you, no matter how many hours it took to find that item, it's still the same item duped...

There is a difference however, in how the item is used.

ABDUR101
Jan 13, 2003, 07:41 PM
On 2003-01-13 16:26, iHATEpsoCHEATERS wrote:
I love opinions, they get people nowhere and lead to pointless arguments.

You should get used to opinions, because you just gave one yourself. Thats all anyone will ever give you on a forum, considering human interaction is the point entirely. You will get varied opinions, whether you agree with them or not doesn't make any difference.

Opinions being given aren't the problem, the problem is the people who can't accept someone else's opinion and viewpoint.



I actually agree with your statements, I just dont like the lack of originality in PSO with dupes widespread. I dont think the game is that "fresh" when everyone is using the same items..meh

Eventually we're all going to be using Rappy Wings, Guilty Lights and everything else on the spectrum.

I enjoy the game for the interaction, others may enjoy it for any number of reasons.



I guess my only real problem with dupes is that MOST people use them excessivly and generally dont care about others when the level/play, but I agree with you, no matter how many hours it took to find that item, it's still the same item duped...

There is a difference however, in how the item is used.

If I found an uber rare that was killing enemies faster and doing more damage than you could ever hope to at the time, would it still be an issue even though I found it?

I find alot of nice stuff, and if I wanted to I could kill enemies before other players could get the chance. Whether the weapon I use is duped or found makes no difference.

It's the player behind the weapon who isn't being a team player and letting everyone in on the fun that must annoy you, not the powerful "duped" item.

People all have different ways of playing the game. If you get into a game and don't like how it's being played, all you have to do is leave and meet someone else.

Discussing something like this is pointless, just enjoy the game. The good with the bad. If you keep letting what annoys you glint in your eye, you'll just go blind and won't be able to enjoy the game for what it really is.

Vantamiath
Jan 13, 2003, 07:46 PM
Yes...but it's the duped item that makes the player want to use it excessivly. Like you said, if you wanted to you could kill before anyone could hit, but that would be "rude".

Are you trying to say that people who use BKB's and DOUBLE CANNONS only hit enimies once then let other get exp?

Noooooooooooooooooooooo.

Sapphire87
Jan 13, 2003, 07:51 PM
The DC PSO was ruined primarily due to destructive cheats (eg. PKing, NOLing, FSOD, RSOD). I think the general consensus is that duping (although it ruins the PSO economy) is tolerated to a degree since it doesn't directly affect your character in a negative fashion. In other words, you won't lose levels or items or your character as a result. My personal feeling is that I don't like the idea that duping exists either in PSO, but as long as I don't accept dups, I'll have nothing to feel guilty about. If the person playing with me wants to use a duped weapon, it has no affect on me. I will not judge that person simply based on the weapon he or she uses. It's nothing but 1's and 0's in a virtual computer world anyway. The personality behind the character is more important to me. One can be legit and still be a jerk. People who use destructive codes, however, is an entirely different matter. These types I avoid entirely. Just pray that PSO GC doesn't sink to that level.

ABDUR101
Jan 13, 2003, 08:04 PM
On 2003-01-13 16:46, iHATEpsoCHEATERS wrote:
Yes...but it's the duped item that makes the player want to use it excessivly. Like you said, if you wanted to you could kill before anyone could hit, but that would be "rude".

Exactly, thus it's the player, not the weapon they are using. And I find alot of nifty rares, but anyone can get carried away and kill everything. Thus it's not the duped weapons that are causing it all the time.

If your arguement is that duped items make people want to kill everything, then ouch. =



Are you trying to say that people who use BKB's and DOUBLE CANNONS only hit enimies once then let other get exp?

Noooooooooooooooooooooo.

I've played with a ton of people who have uber rares like that and will hit an enemy only afew times and then let others tag it to get the exp.

They are also the players who help lower lvls attack difficulties and bosses that they normally would'nt be able to. I've had alot of players who use duped items use powerful weapons to wittle away at a boss so I could survive and get the exp and items that were dropped.

On the flip side, I've seen people who found their own nice rares and killed everything in sight as fast as possible, as I tried to quickly tag everything with a handgun-type to get the exp.


Ultimately, having a duped or found item has very little play in what you are trying to argue. It all comes down to the individual player and how they act with others.

Yurika
Jan 14, 2003, 01:33 PM
I've got nothing against people accepting dupes because you can't tell it's a dupe and the person trading it to you is not being unreasonable in their trade (but, the very nature of people who dupe crap is that they want things they don't have = everything you have they don't -> they never actually trade a damn thing, and want way more than the item is worth, or way less than the item is worth, so whatever). Like, if I was trading for a twin brand (one of the only weapons I actually want in the game) and it wasn't costing me an arm and a leg, I could give a crap less if it's a dupe or not. I just want a fair trade. If some jackass comes up to me and tries to pass off a double cannon on me for crap he doesn't have, forget it. Double cannons are worth monomates.

Up until today, I wanted to believe that only stupid double cannons were being duped, but since everyone and their frigging brother has a damn dark weapon now, there definently is rampant duping. Unless I missed out on the orgy of parasite gene flow while I was hunting xmas rappies last night or something. Maybe the fami-girls were handing them out for free.

And then I'll do something stupid, like look on the gamefaqs message board to see if I can find myself a DB armor for a reasonable trade, and there's nothing but rejects with lists of basically every stupid item there is in the game, and tons of posts after it with people trading them the things missing on their list (and lots of things) for dark flows, or dark bridges, etc. Being as how the bastards are trading off more than 1 of the same dark weapon and recieving tons of things, like yas9k + xmas presents + lv200 pow mags or whatever for one of the stupid things, I get really mad. I could care less about your dumb duped weapon, but when you're trading off ten of them which are obviously dupes, asking for ten times what they're worth, it's just bullshit. It makes me feel that trading is not bloody worth it since I'll probably have to trade off tons of my hard-earned weapons or armors or materials or whatever for the one or two items I can't seem to get or want (like a twin brand or a DB armor), and most likely it's just some ass who's got five more of the same duped item in his bank, laughing at me that he's completing his set of red weapons or whatever at no actual cost, going on to trade out copies of my old items to other people for other crap, making a giant pyramid scheme, where legits are the losers.

I mean, if you're going to dupe, don't be so damn blatant about it. Or dupe something useful like scape dolls and sol atomizers since the stupid store doesn't sell scapes anymore and sols are a pain to come by.

$#(^&$%()# stupid game. <sarcasm> Someone dupe me another heart of devil so I don't have to sit online for another five hours before I get a santa rappy again tonight. >_< </sarcasm>

Vantamiath
Jan 14, 2003, 07:05 PM
It starts with duping, and ends with FLOWENing.

Yurika
Jan 15, 2003, 04:25 PM
Heh, for real. That AR is due out eventually. Since they've hacked out the NES games on Animal crossing and caused a great stir, I don't doubt it will be released 'eventually' now. At least NOL has a neater looking costume in that epII online quest. *sigh*

^_^ For a sec, I was like.. FLOWENing? what? I wouldn't mind being RICOed, maybe. ^_^

Deathscythealpha
Jan 15, 2003, 04:58 PM
The only thing i bothered about dupes with is that people have already started messing around with the game and putting users off before us PAL peeps even get there. Its like going to a party but finding that someone has already puked in the punch.

People can take the dupes if they want, i have no problem with that and wont hold it against them, but i just want to get down to the game and find my stuff properly. Ok people say that its just the same as a true found weapon, its just code, but when i played Ver 1 and had a couple of dupes, i found that the weapons seemed hollow to be, there being no real challenge to find them. I was exstatic the day i found my own Twin Brand and when i found my own Agito, but when i go and played with this duped weapon (i cant rememer what it was now) the feeling just wasnt there.

I jut hope Action Replay and Gameshark dont get released till later on, at least four monthes after march so us PAL players can have a chance to play the game properly.

gunome
Jan 17, 2003, 06:45 PM
im just glad the percentages cant be altered like in DC so at least you can have the same wep that doesnt slaughter everything, but its still bunk.

i know you paid ur money abdur, but you paid your money and entered a contract to agree to STs terms of use which includes not creating/using illegal items. this IS still a game and games have purposes. this games purpose is to level up and acquire items to help you level up faster. some of these items cant be acquire without lelveling up, but if you have the best wep, not only do you have to stop getting items to level up you'll level up the fastest you possibly can. if you didnt want to play by the rules you shouldnt be playing.

i like to play this game becuae it can be challenging,and you need to exert effort but you get to actually see the results of your efforts when you finally find that rare to help you get thru the mines, or just the levels getting easier as you get stronger. there are many aspects that makes PSO interesting and duping takes away from many of those.

Vantamiath
Jan 17, 2003, 09:55 PM
On 2003-01-17 15:45, gunome wrote:

i know you paid ur money abdur, but you paid your money and entered a contract to agree to STs terms of use which includes not creating/using illegal items.

.................................................. ..

if you didnt want to play by the rules you shouldnt be playing.


Can I get an amen?

Raist
Jan 18, 2003, 04:24 PM
On 2003-01-17 18:55, iHATEpsoCHEATERS wrote:


On 2003-01-17 15:45, gunome wrote:

i know you paid ur money abdur, but you paid your money and entered a contract to agree to STs terms of use which includes not creating/using illegal items.

.................................................. ..

if you didnt want to play by the rules you shouldnt be playing.


Can I get an amen?


amen, halleluia, and praise jeebus http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_beer.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Raist on 2003-01-18 13:25 ]</font>

Alielle
Jan 18, 2003, 04:37 PM
On 2003-01-18 13:24, Raist wrote:


On 2003-01-17 18:55, iHATEpsoCHEATERS wrote:


On 2003-01-17 15:45, gunome wrote:

i know you paid ur money abdur, but you paid your money and entered a contract to agree to STs terms of use which includes not creating/using illegal items.

.................................................. ..

if you didnt want to play by the rules you shouldnt be playing.


Can I get an amen?


amen, halleluia, and praise jeebus http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_beer.gif



Double that. I won't be an ass about duping, but that doesn't mean I'll condone it.

ABDUR101
Jan 18, 2003, 04:46 PM
On 2003-01-17 15:45, gunome wrote:
i know you paid ur money abdur, but you paid your money and entered a contract to agree to STs terms of use which includes not creating/using illegal items.


And this is when I say I just don't care. Dupes are in the PSO economy, I'm not going to say "oooo, don't use dupes, someone duped that, it's bad, it's bad". I'm not going to sift through the history of every PSO player and their past trades just to confirm if the one item they are giving me is a dupe or not.

I said I don't care if I'm given a dupe or not. If anyone else wants to make a hassle over dupes, that's fine. Personally, if it's a fair trade item-wise, I'm not even going to think twice.

More power to anyone who does though, it's entirely their choice to play the game as they see fit.

..Ameen.

Munki
Jan 18, 2003, 05:42 PM
Sega has yet to enforce such rules yet. And they probably never will.

I am not a fan of using dupes, but I will not keep others from using theirs. I think all Abdur is trying to say is that you shouldn't worry bout the items... it's how you play, and what you do with those that you play with.

I keep myself legit, and that is a source of pride for me. I have stopped freakin out about trading, even though I may be getting dupes when I trade. As long as I am not duping the item I trade, then I feel my item I get in return is just as legit... since I had to earn it 'the hard way'.

But even though I do all of the above, I still have many friends that use dupes. In games with me, even. At first they were uncomfertable, as it seems MOST legits get on dupers cases and make @$$es of themselves... but once we cleared the air, and they realized if they were just polite, and respected my desire to stay legit, then we all got along fine.

Anyway, to wrap things up. I totally agree with Abdur. I myself prefer to stay legit... but as long as PEOPLE are cool and not rude, I could care less if they use legits or not. That's all.

Raist
Jan 18, 2003, 06:51 PM
I believe the original point of this thread was to pose the question of why people who dont like dupes get more shit from people on this site than people who like/accept dupes.
Since people who either like or dont care about dupes make up the majority now, those who say they dont like dupes usually get the shit flamed out of them, at least thats the way it seems here, take this thread for example, even the mods are speaking out against anti-dupers apparently.
I dont exaclty know how this thread turned into a direct attack on abdur, i think your playing style is just fine and i wish all the people who openly used dupes played like you do but the sad truth is most of them don't, they will accept any item offered to them in most cases, knowing very well that it is duped, they could just care less.
Anyway the original point of this thread seems to have been cut to ribbons, but it was a legitamate point, duping seems to be more acceptable than anti-duping now a days and that truelly truelly sucks.

Edit: and by anti-duping i dont mean the idiots in game who yell "Dupe! Dupe!" whenever you whip out a good rare, i mean on this site when people make threads about not likeing duping or how to stop duping and people just make posts about how they should "shut up and enjoy the game" or "its too late to do anything about it so who cares".

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Raist on 2003-01-18 15:55 ]</font>

ABDUR101
Jan 18, 2003, 08:50 PM
I'm a person, and a mod. I'm not going to hold back my opinion.

The thing that gets annoying are "We really need to stop these dupers". After you see so many threads like that, it gets very, very old.

By no means are mods advocating people to attack and flame people who are legit, obviously. But it's sort of like saying "We really need to stop people from jay-walking". How can you make an effort to stop something that you have no control over?

Legits play their way, people who use dupes play their way, dupers do whatever. Does it matter?

Everyone will be respected if they give others respect.

Raist
Jan 18, 2003, 09:11 PM
On 2003-01-18 17:50, ABDUR101 wrote:
I'm a person, and a mod. I'm not going to hold back my opinion.

As you shouldn't.


The thing that gets annoying are "We really need to stop these dupers". After you see so many threads like that, it gets very, very old.

I know it gets old and i know there isn't much we can do about it short of appealing to people's concionses(sp?). But these people are getting flamed more and more for having that opinion, and that just isn't right.


By no means are mods advocating people to attack and flame people who are legit, obviously. But it's sort of like saying "We really need to stop people from jay-walking". How can you make an effort to stop something that you have no control over?

If we stop complaining about duping all together it will just become more acceptable, newcomers to the game may see duping and not realize how it can destroy the game, and this secion of the forums is for complaining anyway so hey, good deal.


Everyone will be respected if they give others respect.

If that were true with everyone, online play would be much more fun, but thats never gonna happen. But thats not the fault of legits, people who use dupes, or dupers themselves, thats just people in general.

ABDUR101
Jan 18, 2003, 09:48 PM
On 2003-01-18 18:11, Raist wrote:
If we stop complaining about duping all together it will just become more acceptable, newcomers to the game may see duping and not realize how it can destroy the game, and this secion of the forums is for complaining anyway so hey, good deal.


No, by all means you can complain all you want.

What's pointless is posting threads "We really need to stop duping", because eventually it comes down to "oh, well if people did'nt accept dupes then the dupers would'nt do it". Obviously, no one really knows if the item they are being given is a dupe or not.

That's why alot of people just don't care either way. It's ok to not agree with duping, but you have to atleast tolerate it because it does happen.

Keyword: Tolerate.

Tolerate those who use dupes and those who are legit. It's a fair trade. Look, there's a repeat of what I just said, "respect others to be respected". And if that doesn't work, be the bigger man or woman and don't lower to someone's level if they have to go out of their way and attack you for how you play.

We all payed for the game, play it as you wish.

Raist
Jan 18, 2003, 09:53 PM
On 2003-01-18 18:48, ABDUR101 wrote:


On 2003-01-18 18:11, Raist wrote:
If we stop complaining about duping all together it will just become more acceptable, newcomers to the game may see duping and not realize how it can destroy the game, and this secion of the forums is for complaining anyway so hey, good deal.


No, by all means you can complain all you want.

What's pointless is posting threads "We really need to stop duping", because eventually it comes down to "oh, well if people did'nt accept dupes then the dupers would'nt do it". Obviously, no one really knows if the item they are being given is a dupe or not.

That's why alot of people just don't care either way. It's ok to not agree with duping, but you have to atleast tolerate it because it does happen.

Keyword: Tolerate.

Tolerate those who use dupes and those who are legit. It's a fair trade. Look, there's a repeat of what I just said, "respect others to be respected". And if that doesn't work, be the bigger man or woman and don't lower to someone's level if they have to go out of their way and attack you for how you play.

We all payed for the game, play it as you wish.

Well put! Tolerance is deffinitley something that is needed more and more for the people on both sides of the duping debate, but thats just another thing we have no control over.

Vantamiath
Jan 19, 2003, 01:11 PM
No see, what happens is the cheaters find out playing with dupes isnt fun, so they quit these bad ways, but by then nobody will play the game anymore.

Think of duping like marijuana, a gateway drug/cheat. Once people let duping become a "harmless" cheat, the cheaters will then thrive to make something more serious, and because 9/10 players wont care, until they realize the game is crumbling and is no longer fun.

With cheating on any online RPG you find yourself with a huge loss of time, and mainly $$$.

So basically you are telling me Abdur that I must respect the people who are ruining this game.

ABDUR101
Jan 19, 2003, 02:51 PM
On 2003-01-19 10:11, iHATEpsoCHEATERS wrote:
so basically you are telling me Abdur that I must respect the people who are ruining this game.


To me, the only thing that ruins this game are people who try and tell others how to play. If you don't like how someone plays, then don't play with them.

It's an online rpg, you have to tolerate everyone. You don't get the option of telling others how to play, you're taking part in the online community just as much as them. If you don't like how a group of people are playing, then that's a personal issue that you have to deal with.

Again, I don't care if you agree or disagree with how someone plays the game, but you can't do anything except tolerate it.

Vantamiath
Jan 19, 2003, 04:34 PM
but you can't do anything except tolerate it.


You know that's not true. If everyone TRULY wanted to get rid of duping they could, not by killing the method, but by killing the user. All it takes is someones guild number, and no matter how you defend this, its possible.

Just like it would be easy for me to not tolerate legits, I could get a corruption code and end their days of PSO.

But thats not possible, is it abdur?

ABDUR101
Jan 19, 2003, 05:34 PM
On 2003-01-19 13:34, iHATEpsoCHEATERS wrote:
You know that's not true. If everyone TRULY wanted to get rid of duping they could, not by killing the method, but by killing the user. All it takes is someones guild number, and no matter how you defend this, its possible.

Just like it would be easy for me to not tolerate legits, I could get a corruption code and end their days of PSO.

But thats not possible, is it abdur?


..in your effort to "out-perform" the arguement, you created a scenario in which your method is 100x worse than duping.

The method you just brought up incorporates PK'ing. Congratulations on proving my point. If you can't tolerate something and are willing to goto such extremes as to PK someone, then why are you even playing the game?

Ness
Jan 19, 2003, 06:19 PM
People cheat becuase they need attention and the only way they can get it is by resorting to negative manners. That's why there was PKing and shit. Also people wanted the rares. The toher reaons is that cheatters are pussies that can't find or trade for thier rares.

Castoth
Jan 19, 2003, 06:35 PM
It's strange. I openly traded for uniques in Diablo II without much of a second thought, even though there were tons of dupes and Pindlebot-ed items out there so I probably wasn't staying legit. I didn't really care though. PSO, on the other hand, I'm extremely paranoid of trading and worried that any levels I gain with my characters would be nullified by others saying I didn't earn them legitly (using non-duped weapons). Might be due to the different atmosphere of both games though. In Diablo II, the majority of the population didn't give a damn about dupes or other minor hacks (like Maphack) so it felt like I was doing nothing wrong. However, in PSO, there are many out there that would assault you and consider you the scum of the earth if you played with dupes online or cheated in any form. I find it easier to play with both types of people by staying legit and avoiding trading for the most part.

Vantamiath
Jan 20, 2003, 06:07 PM
On 2003-01-19 14:34, ABDUR101 wrote:

The method you just brought up incorporates PK'ing. Congratulations on proving my point. If you can't tolerate something and are willing to goto such extremes as to PK someone, then why are you even playing the game?


Extemes? hahahaha! You think a cheater thinks PKing is/was an extreme? F#ck that, they thought that was a daily part of the game.

As for "out-performing" your argument, I feel I have done JUST that. Because even though people have to take "Extremes" (ie to actually care) it is possible to help/ruin PSO.

ABDUR101
Jan 20, 2003, 06:50 PM
On 2003-01-20 15:07, iHATEpsoCHEATERS wrote:
Extemes? hahahaha! You think a cheater thinks PKing is/was an extreme? F#ck that, they thought that was a daily part of the game.

We're not talking about cheating and hacking into the game to make malicious code, we're talking about users merely making dupes, and those who use dupes. Making and using dupes is a far cry from releasing a pk code into the community.

Let's see, users using duped weapons/duping the hell out of weapons, or users pk'ing others repeatedly in-game....hmmmmmmmm.

It doesn't take alot of sense to know which is worse. Frankly I'm glad that my worst "fear" is someone using a *gasp* dupe in one of the games I join.



As for "out-performing" your argument, I feel I have done JUST that. Because even though people have to take "Extremes" (ie to actually care) it is possible to help/ruin PSO.

...no, I think you missed the arguement somewhere along the lines. Go back and re-read what I've said. No where did your arguement contest mine.

You've actually proven my point. You can't tolerate the dupers, so in your intolerance you want to incorporate pk'ing so you can "take care of" people who dupe.

Let's try and think ahead as to what will happen if PK is thrown into the GC PSO community.

Pleasant thoughts? Not quite.

Vantamiath
Jan 20, 2003, 06:59 PM
I want to PK dupers? Maybe in your 500000+ post count you lost track with reality. You're obviously not paying attention to a word Im saying. But I'll same some more just to give you a bigger headache.

ABDUR what you fail to realize is that it starts small, then grows...(Gets out crayons) Ok, the venemous plant starts small, harmless right? Accept it as harmless and it grows, and before you know it, your ass is being digested.

Point and Conclusion?

Tolerate duping and pretty soon something a little more serious will be out there. You wont like it very much, but still tolerate it. Until you reach the point where GC pso becomes DC PSO v1.1.

And all of this starts with the ignorance of being helpless to change these ways. If I convinced you not to cheat, then you convinced another...pretty soon PSO would be played in its INTENDED way.

Pleasent thoughts? F#*( YES

ABDUR101
Jan 20, 2003, 08:13 PM
On 2003-01-20 15:59, iHATEpsoCHEATERS wrote:
I want to PK dupers? Maybe in your 500000+ post count you lost track with reality.

I'm not quite up there in the post counts...although I have had afew thousand deleted. o_O



You're obviously not paying attention to a word Im saying. But I'll same some more just to give you a bigger headache.

Aww, give me a headache haha. Cute. =)

And I quote...


You know that's not true. If everyone TRULY wanted to get rid of duping they could, not by killing the method, but by killing the user. All it takes is someones guild number, and no matter how you defend this, its possible.

Just like it would be easy for me to not tolerate legits, I could get a corruption code and end their days of PSO.

..so..are you referring to PK or an actual character corruption code?



ABDUR what you fail to realize is that it starts small, then grows...(Gets out crayons) Ok, the venemous plant starts small, harmless right? Accept it as harmless and it grows, and before you know it, your ass is being digested.

...and you already proved this to be true because of your...intolerance.

I like teh crayons. =B

We've already gone over this scenario though, sorry.



Point and Conclusion?

Tolerate duping and pretty soon something a little more serious will be out there. You wont like it very much, but still tolerate it. Until you reach the point where GC pso becomes DC PSO v1.1.

Yeah, you said something about a corruption code. I quoted you above.

Of course the game will decline, every game does to an extent. But the defining factor of how long you enjoy the game is your tolerance to the adverse things that go on in the game.

I played Vers 1 for a long time after PK'ers and NOL'ers were around, to me, duping is the smallest care in the world. And if it gets to pk'ing and NOL'ing again, well thats too bad, but it will be put up with as long as I want to play.



And all of this starts with the ignorance of being helpless to change these ways. If I convinced you not to cheat, then you convinced another...pretty soon PSO would be played in its INTENDED way.

Me using and accepting dupes(i.e. not caring) is a far cry from cheating the game and harming other characters.

And it's not a matter of ignorance, it's a matter of tolerating whats happening and accepting that it will eventually happen in one form or another.

Vantamiath
Jan 20, 2003, 09:30 PM
Ok, first I'll draw this in pencil; then fill it in with crayons to take you through this step by step.

Nice job quoting me, but any fool can quote, not every fool understands what they're quoting. The term "kill the user" and "all you need is their guild card number" is the process you undergo when calling 1-800-USA-Sega. Sorry, next time I will put 1+1 together for you, as its the process I have used on over 5 cheaters on the DC version, and soon will do again. You'd be surprised that ST actually does something.

And hearing the whole BS about it will come in "one form or another" is the weakest argument I've ever heard. New codes dont come, people seek and create them. You keep saying that duping is harmless compared to character kill, so I guess you do know 1-1. What I was TRYING to tell you over a 10+ post romp was that it starts small then becomes something greater. NOW, put on your READING glasses...

Cheating STARTS with something "harmless" such as duping, and the ONLY REASON it gets worse, is because most people "tolerate" it (ie YOU) and say, "who gives a rats ass? Its gonna happen anyway." Next thing you know PSO turns down the shitter.

And do you think Sonic Team will rescue USA ships with all the cheating? No, because they'll realize almost everyone cheats and or tolerates it, so spending money to prevent it is useless.

Abdur no matter how you try to defend yourself, contract wise, you're always going to be the one at fault. So even if you knab me with a few funny lines, you're the one in violation.

Now if I had your card I could USER KILL YOU (Remember kids that means through ST, just call 1-800-USA-SEGA!)

Point and Conclusion?

If people would abide by the contract, it wouldnt matter if their were 200+ cheat devices available, because people would know cheating and or carrying illegal items is in violation.

Its ok ABDUR, speak all these principals to me about tolerance, but you're preaching to the choir, because you wont respect the biggest grandaddy of them all.

(Gets out crayons...Draws Sonic Team Logo)

Balthor
Jan 20, 2003, 10:16 PM
What a fucking retarted topic. Comparing Marijuana to dupes?

I now seen how stupid people can get.

ABDUR101
Jan 20, 2003, 10:36 PM
On 2003-01-20 18:30, iHATEpsoCHEATERS wrote:
Ok, first I'll draw this in pencil; then fill it in with crayons to take you through this step by step.

...I like markers better. Crisper lines and all that. =



And hearing the whole BS about it will come in "one form or another" is the weakest argument I've ever heard. New codes dont come, people seek and create them. You keep saying that duping is harmless compared to character kill, so I guess you do know 1-1. What I was TRYING to tell you over a 10+ post romp was that it starts small then becomes something greater. NOW, put on your READING glasses...

I always wear glasses. =B

And no, accepting what will eventually happen to the game is not the weakest arguement ever, it's being realistic.

Thanks for giving me 10 more posts though.



Cheating STARTS with something "harmless" such as duping, and the ONLY REASON it gets worse, is because most people "tolerate" it (ie YOU) and say, "who gives a rats ass? Its gonna happen anyway." Next thing you know PSO turns down the shitter.

Back to the point of being realistic and realising that eventually the game will decline if it isn't maintained. Realise that the game being maintained isn't in our hands. The ultimate deciding factor on what happens is with *holds up ST logo*



And do you think Sonic Team will rescue USA ships with all the cheating? No, because they'll realize almost everyone cheats and or tolerates it, so spending money to prevent it is useless.

Exactly. So you might as well start tolerating it and not letting it bother you, otherwise you might have an ulcer by the time your PSO days are through. =o



Abdur no matter how you try to defend yourself, contract wise, you're always going to be the one at fault. So even if you knab me with a few funny lines, you're the one in violation.

I'm not defending myself, what is there to defend? And how mayhap am I at fault again? ooooooo, I use dupes...oooooooo =O

I guess if that makes me at fault and in violation, I'm guilty as sin. But then, I already said I did'nt care either way, so. =)



Now if I had your card I could USER KILL YOU (Remember kids that means through ST, just call 1-800-USA-SEGA!)

Yes, I promote this. Everyone call ST. Let them know your concerns/comments. That's why they have a number.



Point and Conclusion?

...again?



If people would abide by the contract, it wouldnt matter if their were 200+ cheat devices available, because people would know cheating and or carrying illegal items is in violation.

..it's not a matter of knowing cheating is wrong, it's a matter of people not caring. You should try it sometime, you might be able to relax and enjoy the game alittle more.



Its ok ABDUR, speak all these principals to me about tolerance, but you're preaching to the choir, because you wont respect the biggest grandaddy of them all.

(Gets out crayons...Draws Sonic Team Logo)

Preaching to the choir. Woohoo!

Honestly, I don't care. The game is released, it's been picked through by so many people, inside and out.

If me not caring if I get dupes in an item-based trade is not showing respect to ST, then trust me, I won't be losing any sleep over it.

I don't promote duping, nor cheating, but if there are dupes in circulation and since you can't readily tell if an item is a dupe or not, I'm not going to pick my noodle and worry about it. If I get a dupe, then so be it. If you classify that as me not showing respect to ST, then oh well. =)

Either way, there's no point to continue replying here, you're set in your ways, and I don't care enough about the whole ordeal to keep replying. I'll keep accepting dupes if they are given in a trade and you'll keep disapproving. That's fine, you are entitled to your viewpoint, but then here comes the whole tolerance spiel again. If you aren't tolerant to how others feel on the subject, I doubt anyone is going to care how you feel either.

Either way, play the game and have fun, it doesn't matter how you play. =)

*pulls out his finger paints and doodles all over the walls*

Vantamiath
Jan 21, 2003, 02:34 PM
You didnt quote my funny moments, damn you abdur!

Your right, we both have viewpoints, heres what they are;

YOURS

-"tolerates" duping and legits because its for the well-being of PSO. Yet you dont respect the people who made the game. hmmm *ungratefull bastard cough*

-You feel ST should ride in on a white stallion and do something about cheating, I got news for ya, their not gonna. So keep on loving how great PSO is, just look down the road though and you got a reincatnation of PSO for DC.

MINE

-Respects the ST contract, and abides by it. Tries the help ST from any form of cheating, but is bad mouthed for actually giving a damn.

-Cheating starts small, then its nasty. But I'm sure when we get FLOWENing Abdur will "tolerate" it just like duping....(fuck no)

-Trying to help overall experience of PSO by telling others and playing the WAY the game was ment to be played.


Jordan fades back...Ohhhh in his eye!

ABDUR101
Jan 21, 2003, 05:40 PM
On 2003-01-21 11:34, iHATEpsoCHEATERS wrote:
-"tolerates" duping and legits because its for the well-being of PSO. Yet you dont respect the people who made the game. hmmm *ungratefull bastard cough*

*passes you a Halls for your sore throat*

My paragraph below will pretty much sum it all up nicely. =)



-You feel ST should ride in on a white stallion and do something about cheating, I got news for ya, their not gonna. So keep on loving how great PSO is, just look down the road though and you got a reincatnation of PSO for DC.

...hey look, he just proved my point. =D

If ST doesn't care...guess what...*pssssst* Neither do I!

I enjoyed playing on the DC version well into all the PK and NOL'ing issues. Why? Because I did'nt let it bother me. I enjoyed the game and thats all there was to it.



-Respects the ST contract, and abides by it. Tries the help ST from any form of cheating, but is bad mouthed for actually giving a damn.

pffft, play the victim. This was a discussion, if you feel I bad mouthed you then oh well.

Oh God, one moment.

*pulls out massive case*

*opens massive case*

*takes out World's Smallest Violin and begins playing*



-Cheating starts small, then its nasty. But I'm sure when we get FLOWENing Abdur will "tolerate" it just like duping....(fuck no)

Cheating started small on DC Ver 1 and I played clear up till after Vers 2 was released. I don't have to defend myself against someone such as yourself, there's nothing to prove. =)



-Trying to help overall experience of PSO by telling others and playing the WAY the game was ment to be played.

Keep the little light alive!

*watches as tidal wave slams down on a single man on a beach*

...

*keeps hitting high notes with World's Smallest Violin as he walks out of thread*

gunome
Jan 21, 2003, 07:59 PM
i remember when i came to a point of realization, that none of this is real and no matter how much effort and time you spent working on your character, detecting and avoiding cheaters, its all Nothing and should be treated as so. one day, just like dreamcast, the servers will close, or you may just get bored, who knows.....some circumstance will cause this game to go away and then what? whose gunna sit and argue with you about whether or not cheaters caused the downfall...downfall of what?? some zeros and ones on your memory card. you're thinking like pso is going to be here forever, and you'll be playing always....this isnt the start of a new civilization and if we dont start shaping up then chaos and anarchy will be rampant in the streets, women and children arent safe and everything we know will end. its a game, and all these people getting you angry should only cause you to realize there are more important things, just pull the plug and it all disappears....

jello44
Jan 22, 2003, 01:23 AM
Yeah, there are so many topics about "dupers" who bitch about legits, right, is that why I always see people bitching in the trade forum?

Anyway, if ST wanted to, they could have done something by now, but it seems likes they honestly do not give a fuck, and well I accept that, because it's not news, it's pretty old.

I totally agree with Abdur, if I want to accept a dupe, then I'm going to take it. It is MY game, and no one has the right to tell me that I'm wrong for playing a game the way I want. Shit, you don't hear me saying that you have to accept dupes do you?

To be honest, I don't NEED anything, because I have a good slew of weapons that I found/traded for, and well, being level 160+, you can kick major ass with a regular old Calabur.

isamu2k3
Jan 22, 2003, 02:38 AM
I just think legit'rs are kinda....jealous
They will play for hours on end and not find a single rare item thats worth a dam....when i can go online for 10 mins and trade for a sweet rare..dooped or not its an item that i dont have...and that makes me happy....

i think abdur and iHatePSOcheaters both have their points....

ya it duz start small and grow...but sitting back and letting it happen sux....i guess u would have to have a real LOVE for the game to single handedly try and make changes for the better...

dont get me wrong i love this game...one of my favs
(longest running game that i still play)
but.....dooping is pretty harmless...dont get worried till the real hacking starts!

rememeber the duping happens b/c there is a fault in the game(glitch)....meh why not exploit it?

mmmm by the way dooping gets you no where....u still have to find that uber rare in the first place to make copies.....if u know how to and do doop it duz u nothing if your best weapon is a kaladbolg..lol

neways i just think some legitr's are jealous that they dont have that "uber" item

and ppl do play this game diff ways that suit their needs...it is THEIR game neways....i play to get as much shtuff as possible and i have fun doing it...plus i love the barter system we now have...I can spend hours just trading....its fun. well for me neways...and maybe thats not ur bowl of cereal...u know wut i dont care b/c im playing my game that i bought..if u dont like then eat it...cuz ur not paying my HL, my game cost, or my BBA...i did w/my hard earned money..so ima play this game ne way i want to...cuz it pleases ME! and thats all that matters!

SO suck it up....pso's have come and gone...this is just another one outa the lot...when its gone i'll miss it....but hopefully there will be another one to keep me occupied...but untill then ima tear up as much sheit as i can in my current pso experience! (any way i see fit)

Raist
Jan 22, 2003, 11:12 AM
On 2003-01-21 23:38, isamu2k3 wrote:
I just think legit'rs are kinda....jealous
They will play for hours on end and not find a single rare item thats worth a dam....when i can go online for 10 mins and trade for a sweet rare..dooped or not its an item that i dont have...and that makes me happy....

hmmmm, thats the biggest load of bull i do believe i've ever seen. What's to stop we legits from just giving in and getting all those uber rares from dupers, pretty much just our mourals. If we were really jealous we would just do the same as you. And, much to your disbelief i'm sure, good rares can be found without duping *swings around Oritiagito*.


mmmm by the way dooping gets you no where....u still have to find that uber rare in the first place to make copies.....if u know how to and do doop it duz u nothing if your best weapon is a kaladbolg..lol

jesus, have you been online?! everybody who wants one, can pretty much have any of the "uber" rares they want from other dupers. Only one person needs to get the rare, if that person dupes, everybody who wants it has the rare.


and ppl do play this game diff ways that suit their needs...it is THEIR game neways....i play to get as much shtuff as possible and i have fun doing it...plus i love the barter system we now have...I can spend hours just trading....its fun. well for me neways...and maybe thats not ur bowl of cereal...u know wut i dont care b/c im playing my game that i bought..if u dont like then eat it...cuz ur not paying my HL, my game cost, or my BBA...i did w/my hard earned money..so ima play this game ne way i want to...cuz it pleases ME! and thats all that matters!

another argument i just hate, allright, you pay your HL, you bought the game, and you bought the BBA. hmmm, so did pretty much every NOLer, PKer, FSODer, BSODer, etc etc. of ver. 2, just because the paid for the game doesn't mean they can disobey the rules of it. Your argument might as well be defending them as well.

I see where your coming from though, you are paying money for this, you should be able to do what you like, but every single player pays that same money, what anyone online does effects everyone else, if its for the negative and against the rules, why should we put up with it.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Raist on 2003-01-22 08:15 ]</font>

Vantamiath
Jan 22, 2003, 02:01 PM
There's more cheaters then legits-FACT

Cheaters are in violation of the ST contract-FACT

Cheaters fail to realize the future of PSO-FACT

Legits/cheaters words fall on deaf ears-FACT

"Tolerating" is another term for "Idontgivearatsass"-FACT

*Calls 1-800-USA-SEGA*

pixelate
Jan 22, 2003, 02:30 PM
On 2003-01-22 11:01, iHATEpsoCHEATERS wrote:
Cheaters fail to realize the future of PSO-FACT


-Opinion

KodiaX987
Jan 22, 2003, 02:34 PM
Hey guys! Sega has appointed me treasurer of the state.

From now on, for obvious reasons, the new currency for PSO will be the Peseta! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Vantamiath
Jan 22, 2003, 05:42 PM
On 2003-01-22 11:34, KodiaX987 wrote:
Hey guys! Sega has appointed me treasurer of the state.

From now on, for obvious reasons, the new currency for PSO will be the Peseta! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/spam.gif

gunome
Jan 22, 2003, 07:44 PM
legits are not jealous of anyone i think, if anything im actually happy when someone else finds a badass rare, cause i know it wasnt duped, they put effort into obtaining it, and it makes me want to play more to find something as equally badass. and i have found lots of rares maybe not "uber" rares like lavis etc blah blah blah, but ive found good enough amount of good enough stuff to get me through the game and help me find that uber.
rares arent the only thing that intersets legits. to me tearing up an area with a 4 man team pefectly in sync, force doing their job etc, is jus as much fun as finding a rare. LOL i think a good game is rarer than most of the rares now lol but what miffs me though is that when i do find that lavis (and i will, its just a matter of doing an area enough":P) its not gunna mean shit to anyone, including me, because not only could i get a better one in 2 seconds, i could get a wep thats twice as powerfull in about one second. boo to that.
o if anything, dupers are the jealous. the main thing i see is people trying to convince others that their dupe is legit. the reason people dupe is to get one of whatever they are duping cause they dont have it and want one. if you dont care about duping and accept and condone it, why lie about it. cause the second u open ur mouth legits will know ur lying.
this is off topic but another stupid duper/liar class of people are those that set thier language to JP and pretend to know how talk in JP (with a name like ShitonmyFuck lol). i never seen more jealousy in my life than that. i think its cause the majority of US PSo population is under 18 so there is ALOT of immaturity in this game.

isamu2k3
Jan 22, 2003, 11:02 PM
I'm curious.....how many "legiter's" did the TP trick to get a rare enemy just so they can get the rare item it drops......?? i know of a bunch of self proclaimed "legit" players that have abused that to the fullest...and they still beleive they are legit..

u know what .....the tp trick might as well be the same thing as duping.....

TP trick is a glitch in the pso system.....
Duping process is a glicth in the pso system.....

Both will get u rares and possibly SAME rares w/the tp trick if u do it enuff in the same area...

Duping and the TP trick are both glitches that have been exploited...........

So i say if ne one that claims to be legit and has done the TP trick are doing basically the same thing as doopers......exploiting a glitch or flaw in the game to your benefit.

Raist
Jan 22, 2003, 11:28 PM
On 2003-01-22 20:02, isamu2k3 wrote:
I'm curious.....how many "legiter's" did the TP trick to get a rare enemy just so they can get the rare item it drops......?? i know of a bunch of self proclaimed "legit" players that have abused that to the fullest...and they still beleive they are legit..

u know what .....the tp trick might as well be the same thing as duping.....

TP trick is a glitch in the pso system.....
Duping process is a glicth in the pso system.....

Both will get u rares and possibly SAME rares w/the tp trick if u do it enuff in the same area...

Duping and the TP trick are both glitches that have been exploited...........

So i say if ne one that claims to be legit and has done the TP trick are doing basically the same thing as doopers......exploiting a glitch or flaw in the game to your benefit.

damn, and i here i thought i was legit...oh wait. Ok there is a world of difference here, for one, the tp trick takes an extreme ammount of effort and patience, believe me, i mowed through 27 pal rappies before i got my LEGIT 1975 Agito, it took weeks. The duping trick takes upwards of what...5 minutes. Enemies reseting isn't a glitch! With duping you can make exact copies of anything, with the tp trick you can get very few uber rares, and as i mentioned before, it takes weeks to get anything worth the time and effort. With the tp trick you can't get any of the really uber rares because most of them such as all the dark weapons, the double cannon, and the bkb require the mixing of items. Nice effort in defending cheaters though.

Edit: actually, come to think of it, it took over a month so even saying weeks was an understatement ^_^



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Raist on 2003-01-22 20:59 ]</font>

Vantamiath
Jan 23, 2003, 08:03 PM
Isamu that is the most rediculous comparisen Ive ever seen in my life. (Oh wait I forgot, my comparison of mary jane and duping was much worse)