PSU: behind the numbers: unveiling the truth about Assault C

[Talise]

Ever since I started, I always thought of Assault Crush as... garbage. Well, after AotI came out I thought things might have changed, so I gave ppl benefit of the doubt. After hearing over and over about how good this PA is supposed to be, I couldn't take it anymore. I've tried this PA since AotI, and it really hasn't changed. To prove/disprove my opinion, I conducted my own experiment.
In this lidde run thru, I'm on my lvl 94 AF 15, using Twin Harisen Fans 20% light at Linear Line A(lvl30 monsters). On average I do 250 normal and 400 with just attack. To maximize the effect of each PA, every part of the combo is recorded using Just Attack. Both assault Crush and Rising Crush are at lvl 30, pp cost 20 and 18 respectively. The results of this test are, with the numbers averaged and rounded:
Assault Crush
Combo 1: 900 dmg, 1 target 2 hits(1800)
Combo 2: 750 dmg, 1 target 2 hits(1500)
Combo 3: 700 dmg, 2 targets 4 hits(5600)
Rising Crush
Combo 1: 700 dmg, 2 targets 2 hits(2800)
Combo 2: 750 dmg, 2 targets 3 hits(4500)
Combo 3: 850 dmg, 2 targets 3 hits(5100)

the total damage for Assault Crush on 2 targets:8900
the total damage for Rising Crush on 2 targets: 12400
the total damage for Assault Crush on 1 target: 6100
the total damage for Rising Crush on 1 target: 6200
*As the numbers have been rounded, Assault Crush really does the same damage as Rising Crush on a single target.
Now let's talk actual skill use. The "advantage" of Assault Crush is that it's so fast, you will be able to execute the full combo without getting hit, for the most part. HOWEVER, the fact that you back up before you attack for the 3rd combo means there are times when you MIGHT NOT hit with the full combo. Now rising Crush doesn't execute as fast, BUT it launches enemies in the air, how would they counter attack you??? Also take into account that each combo does more than 1 hit that means even though it's not fast you have the ability to change angles, locking the first pair of enemies and launching another pair of enemies, then returning to the previous with the second combo. Finally, the 3rd combo of Assault Crush launches enemies, while Risin Crush blows them away.
Review: Rising Crush= Better/same damage, enemy locking, less pp cost
Assault Crush=Higher execution speed, higher pp cost.

Rising Crush will always win in my book.

After thought: I would like to point out that because the 1st and 2nd combo only hits 1 target, it's a pain to lvl and the PA is really not all that great without the 3rd combo neither.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Talise on 2008-02-03 23:34 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Talise on 2008-02-03 23:49 ]</font>

[Silver_Wyrm]

I like them both for different situations, I really like plowing into a group of enemies with assault, and when they go up in the air I turn and do it again, if its only 2 enemies I'd use rising, if 1...I'd use entirely different weapons more suited for single targets >.>

[Talise]

lol, yes, the point of the single target calculation is to show that even against 1 enemy, Rising Crush would not lose out to Assault Crush.

[Silver_Wyrm]

I wish the first 2 parts of assault didn't suck so much though http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[SolRiver]

Assault crush are actually best used with just the first 2 combo... and a luxury of last combo.

1, 2 strafe, 1, 2, strafe. Smooth and deadly. You can easily finish a single target faster.

sO... a matter of choice!

If you care for pp and are a human/newman; try out the creas, excellent pp gain.

....... Ok, I prefer rising crush too... so what? =(

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolRiver on 2008-02-04 00:22 ]</font>

[icewyrm]

When i first saw this, I read it as "assault crotch".

[Silver_Wyrm]

rather than spam away pp on first two hits of assault I'd rather just JA a bogga robado part 1 >.> 4 quick hits, more damage, less pp

[ljkkjlcm9]

I'll take hurricane cross over both anyday

THE JACKEL

[Talise]

*ahem* regardless of whether the ultimate PAs are better, the subject was...that Assault Crush is not worth using. With that said, I luv Splendor Crush, and since Hurricane Cross came out Splendor Crush got crushed from my life,...forever

[Silver_Wyrm]

On 2008-02-04 03:00, Talise wrote:
*ahem* regardless of whether the ultimate PAs are better, the subject was...that Assault Crush is not worth using.

I find its las part very useful, mayhaps its outdamaged by other things, but its great for juggling enemies without sending them flying *away* from you

[Talise]

=0 cancel out on the last combo of Rising Crush, problem solved http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif. This was a problem on Firebreak and that's exactly what I did. Also, the 3rd combo of Assault Crush launches enemies upward, so it doesn't hit small enemies with the full combo which is why it has the multi-hit effect on larger enemy groups. This is probably why ppl like this part of the combo, I guess...
Also, I appreciate the concern about launching enemies away. There are many instances where it's prefered to launch them away so that you do not get overwhelmed, and also instances where it's preferred to keep enemies grouped up for centralized damage. In most of the latter case, canceling out on the last part of a PA combo will keep this from happening, but everyone has their own play style and is free to pick a PA that doesn't blow enemies away =D. (=0 use cross hurricane!)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Talise on 2008-02-04 07:29 ]</font>

[Doh42]

My opinion is the complete opposite of Talise, and thus, I decided I should share.

For me, Rising Crush is absurdly slow and immobile. It's good to take robots, for instance, because of the "no explosion if you're knocked up/down" rule, and it can juggle more than 2 enemies if you turn around during the PA. However, your own movement is extremely limited. Let's say you're soloing a dangerous map, like Fire Break, with those buffed-up mage monsters. Starting Rising crush on one side is probably very good to prevent two (or three) of them from acting at all. The remaining ones however, will probably one-shot you before you ever regain control of your character.

Those exact enemies (barta or foie version both) are the reason why I switched to assault crush. The first two steps of Assault are very fast, perfect for hit-and-run tactics, and once you get the third step, it covers so much ground, not to mention juggling all the enemies in your path. So I pay more PP for a move that allows me not to get hit? Alright, I'm in.

Also, do you really need to study the numbers to decide which PA to use over another? With the current difficulty of the game, I figured people would use PA that fits their character, look pretty or generally enjoy rather than those to push the big numbaz... Oh wait, who am I kidding...

P.S.2. Assault crush might do lower damage per full-round of execution, but wouldn't "damage per second" be better in some occasions than "damage per PP"?

[Talise]

it takes like 1.5 seconds to execute. Why dun you tell me a heavy weapons PA that you use that doesn't take that long to execute. Better damage, less pp=more efficient, you're trying to push DPS. Also the damage is almost twice that of Assault Crush I dun really think it's gonna lose out that much on DPS. 2 extra pp per use also is costly considering that's 6 pp per combo, having normally about 300 pp on a weapon. You can pretty much spam Rising Crush all the time, and use up less charges. This might not be as big a deal now but it was before AotI

[Doh42]

Just wanted to point out:
Rising takes 5 seconds (00:21 to 00:26), assault takes 4 (00:32 to 00:35). None of them take 1.5 seconds.

Time them yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQMoAawHwmU

[MrNomad]

Assult crush isn't soo bad, but it comes with a lot of problems to me.

1: Fast pp drainage. Because the first 2 hits are used only to get to the 3rd you spend more pp just whiffing the move than you do actually hitting any enemy, and 20 pp each combo can drain your twins fast, and twins already have an average to low pp cap on them.

2:lower damage. the first two hits only hit one target each. Yeah they are alittle faster than other attacks, but they aren't strong, and only being able to target one enemy with both combos doesn't help much either.

The good parts? If you can avoid being hit with the first 2 hits and get the 3rd hit out, you get a nice 3 hitter to 3 targets that cause launch up as well. The damage on the last hit is good, the only problem is it isn't the strongest and you'll end up draining more pp for less damage with this pa. If you wanna get the most out of this pa I suggest either being fF (universal pp consumption is lowered for each skill as fF) or get a Giga skill save. There are other skill unit saves being put in game so look out for those too!

[Silver_Wyrm]

theres other jugglers (like rising crush I think it was?) but assault gives good mobility to avoid casters attacks from sides etc

[Starrz]

lol @ comparing total damages.

Assault Crush beats Rising Crush Silly because you'll get more combos out faster, which is the real meaning of more damage.

[Talise]

On 2008-02-04 08:14, Doh42 wrote:
Just wanted to point out:
Rising takes 5 seconds (00:21 to 00:26), assault takes 4 (00:32 to 00:35). None of them take 1.5 seconds.

Time them yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQMoAawHwmU


I said like 1.5, that means, about, and you were talking about the time it takes to get out of 1 execution, which means 1 combo, and w/e the real execution time was, they're pretty close. Again, no PA takes half a second to execute, they are all about at least 1 second, so I dun really see the problem with getting stuck in execution. I know it IS an immobile PA for the most part which is your turn off towards this PA. Every PA have strong points and disadvantages though, but I would rather use a dagger PA or something for that and keep rising crush on my twins.

[Midicronica]

Assault Crush will always have a place in my heart. It's still one of my favorite PAs, but for now the VIIF PA, Cross Hurricane, is still be whored.

[Talise]

On 2008-02-04 08:14, Doh42 wrote:
Just wanted to point out:
Rising takes 5 seconds (00:21 to 00:26), assault takes 4 (00:32 to 00:35). None of them take 1.5 seconds.

Time them yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQMoAawHwmU


On 2008-02-04 22:00, Starrz wrote:
lol @ comparing total damages.

Assault Crush beats Rising Crush Silly because you'll get more combos out faster, which is the real meaning of more damage.


Hey look, Doh42 did my work for me =D.
Assault Crush=4 seconds, Rising Crush=5 seconds.
Assault Crush dmg=8900, Rising Crush dmg=12400.
Let's multiple Assault Crush by 5 and Rising by 4.
Assault Crush dmg over 20 seconds=44500
Rising Crush dmg over 20 secons=49600
Assault Crush dmg over 40 seconds=89000
Rising Crush dmg over 40 seconds=99200
Keep calculating and the difference increases.
Anything else you'd like to say about DPS?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Talise on 2008-02-04 22:11 ]</font>

[Starrz]

Except Assault Crush takes 3 seconds.

[Talise]

You're right, I didn't look carefully enough, I just took the number off the post. I have double checked the video now. In this case:
Over 15 seconds, Assault Crush=44500, Rising Crush=37200
Over 30 seconds, Assault Crush=89000, Rising Crush=74400