Melee FoMar

[3---Hit---U]

Hey, I made a melee FoMar today, and I was wondering what weapons I should hunt. I currently use a *POWER MAG* so don't tell me things such as a Battle Verge or something. My IDs I have are:

Purplenum: Almost in Hard
Yellowboze: Almost in VH but I can play with friends
Skyly: Hard
Whitill: Ultimate

Thanks in advance! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[TheStoicOne]

while we're on the subject I've been wondering why people make poweer mags for fomars if they want to go melee? Why not just use the materials and make the normal mag to max out his stats?

[3---Hit---U]

My Fo is level 9... kthxbai http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[TheStoicOne]

I meant higher level fomars. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

[3---Hit---U]

Umm..

I've made a Mage FoMar before.


It was level 4 when I deleted it.

[Nai_Calus]

Because maxing tends to take a combination of things. Mats, units, Mags. Also bear in mind that most maxing plans are for maxing all your stats at L200.

If you do something fucking retarded like eating 250 Power Mats in lieu of a POW/DEX mag you've severely fucked yourself over - For example, one of the common methods of maxing a FOmar at L200 before EpIV involved a mere 45 Power mats, with 45 power on the Mag and a God/Power and God/Ability. If you used a shitton of Power mats you were fucked for doing that.

Furthermore, a 'higher level FOmar' is... A Force. As a Force, he has plenty of MST merely in and of himself. (And assuming you used that maxing method I mentioned above, you'd have eaten 61 Mind mats in preparation on top of that.) What you *do* need to boost at most working levels is... Your ATP. And your DEX. What's the best way to do this? Why, a POW/DEX mag, of course. A 5/145/50/0 Rati gives you a whopping 290 ATP and 25 ATA. You know how many Power mats you'd need to eat for 290 ATP? That's right, 145. Good luck *ever* maxing then...

On the subject of weapons, then.

You don't say if you're on or offline, so you may have greater difficulty in hunting some things.

Personally I find it almost impossible to go wrong with a combination of a Partisan-type, Double Saber-type and a Handgun or Rifle-type. It covers pretty much every situation, and the ones it doesn't cover are often handled best by some quick Rafoie/Gizonde/Rabarta.

For levelling up and getting to Ult as a baby FOmar via melee, a Soul Eater(Beat up Kireek for this, it's really easy), a Double Saber(1/22 drop rate of Hard Barba ray for all IDs) and whatever Handguns you can use as you level up.

Once you're all nice and situated in Ult and your characters are all nice and levelled up you can do some hardcore hunting. Right around in the mid-120s you start hitting ATP requirements and really getting into your element as a melee FOmar. My usual ult-level melee FOmar recs are a Soul Banish, an S-rank Twin and a Red Handgun or Holy Ray.

You're probably better off, with your ID spread, going for a Holy Ray - It's a rifle, so it has greater range, and drops from Dal Ra Lie in Ult for YELLOWBOZE. Red Handgun drops in WHITILL and YELLOWBOZE for you, but the drop rates are worse.

Soul Banish... Either your SKYLY or your PINKAL can find it, but the PINKAL drop is nearly impossible due to a lack of Sinow Spiegells. I don't know if you have regular Ep1&2 or Plus - The SKYLY Banish drop is from Delbiters. If you have regular, Seabed runs. If you have Plus, do Tower runs, more Delbiters faster.

S-Rank Twin... Well, you have GC, so that might be a bit difficult. It's only from C-mode online. There are three ways to get around this that I'm aware of, none of which can be discussed here - Other servers and two different forms of outright cheating. Common offline-only alternatives are using something like a Red Saber, Charge Vulcans with Hit or sticking with a stock Double Saber.

You can also use slicers, but you're not going to be able to get Rainbow Baton without a REDRIA...

[TheStoicOne]

thanks for clearing that up, and the thought crossed my mind, I'll continue making my pow sato http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

so wait, I Was thinking abit after your post, I went over what you said and so youre saying end game fomars should generally be geared towards Techs more? but melee (assuming their stats are maxxed) isnt a waste ?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TheStoicOne on 2008-03-09 15:50 ]</font>

[Eihwaz]

A Soul Banish would work quite well, but I had a lot of luck with my own melee FOmar by making a Rainbow Baton with lots of Hit % (in my case, 40%). As mentioned, you won't be able to find the essential magic rock Iristia without Redria. If you do, then it's merely an issue of doing lots of runs of Forest of Sorrow. Bringer's Rifle is also pretty good while you're waiting to hit 680 MST to use that Holy Ray, but it's much rarer...

If you don't mind using an item that you can't get through normal means, Red Ring is a really solid shield, and it adds 20 ATA over your max. Considering that FOmars have the lowest ATA in the entire game, this is quite...enticing. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[TsukasaDCX]

Mechguns
Mechguns are a FOmar's best friend

[Nai_Calus]

The guy wants to be a melee FOmar, not a twelth-rate Ranger. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Mechguns should only be used if you can't get a decent *melee* weapon for single-target use. >3

And no, no, it's not that end-game should be geared for techs. Just that in the end a FOmar doesn't need that much ATP added to him since his L200 base ATP stat isn't that far off his max. (Needs 249 ATP to max at that point - Very easily gotten)

For practical Ult levels, especially if you play online,(L125ish up, generally) melee is more or less a FOmar's most effective means of combat - Offline it's not so much of an issue with low tech resists, and a casting FOmar is plenty effective, but online you're better off meleeing. For which you generally want good weapons and a Pow/Dex Mag(And probably a God/Arm or two as well, depending on how far you are from your max ATA). Though, for FOmars, I would also have a high MIND Mag as well for tech learning, or the times when you feel like being a casting force. (Or for just general support whoring if you're online)

[TsukasaDCX]

Awww but mechguns
the mechguns
the mechguns
so sweeeeeet
Gotta love 'em

[Nai_Calus]

Let's see. Slow? Check. Bad recovery time? Check. Only hit one enemy? Check. Not melee? Check.

What's to like about 'em? >_> Only mech in the game worth using is Yas9kM. >_>

[KojiroAK]

@Ian-KunX

You can kill many Enemies with Mechguns without to worry that they hit you.
You don't have to run around for hours just to get a good position of the enemies before you attack.

Normal -> Hard -> Hard
If enemy to near; then move;
else Normal -> Hard -> Hard
fi

Single hit Melee Weapons,
run around till enemies at god position, Normal -> Hard, move.

Multi hit melee weapons
run around till enemies at god position, Normal -> Hard, evade, Normal -> Hard, evade.

At least in single mode, maybe you don't have to concern that much about being gang raped by mobs when you move in to them in multi mode.

O.k. in Difficulties V.Hard and below it doesn't that much bother, but in Ultimate single mode you don't want move in to the enemies as far as possible.

Oh, and Mechguns + God/Battle are pretty fast.
(if not to say pure ownage)
And the recovery time doesn't cause problems if you don't try to melee with Mechguns at all.

[Splash]

On 2008-03-11 21:27, KojiroAK wrote:
You can kill many Enemies with Mechguns without to worry that they hit you.
You don't have to run around for hours just to get a good position of the enemies before you attack.
Mechguns =/= Melee, by definition.

Also, mechguns are for the weak who are too afraid to go close-ranged combat.


At least in single mode, maybe you don't have to concern that much about being gang raped by mobs when you move in to them in multi mode.
Why exactly are you surrounded by monsters in the first place then?


O.k. in Difficulties V.Hard and below it doesn't that much bother, but in Ultimate single mode you don't want move in to the enemies as far as possible.
How about learn to dodge instead rather than just stand and shoot 9 bullets?


Oh, and Mechguns + God/Battle are pretty fast.
(if not to say pure ownage)
Lolz.


And the recovery time doesn't cause problems if you don't try to melee with Mechguns at all.

Mechgun is not meleeing.

[cashizslick]

My fomar uses the following gear:

Lvl 144

Plantain Huge Fan, 35hit
Bringers Rifle
Double Saber, 60hit
Charge Slicer, 50hit
Demonic Fork, 0%, only for megid pierce.

Mag is 5/145/0/0

Fomar is just a humar who quit being a hunter.

[Eihwaz]

On 2008-03-12 08:27, cashizslick wrote:
My fomar uses the following gear:

Lvl 144

Plantain Huge Fan, 35hit
Bringers Rifle
Double Saber, 60hit
Charge Slicer, 50hit
Demonic Fork, 0%, only for megid pierce.

There are better Partisans than Plantain Huge Fan, and Holy Ray is superior to Bringer's Rifle, and more common. You could, however, theoretically use Bringer's Rifle a lot sooner than Holy Ray...but I digress.



Mag is 5/145/0/0

I hope you typoed this, because giving a FOmar a Mag with no DEX is a pretty bad idea. >_>



Fomar is just a humar who quit being a hunter.

I disagree.

HUmar is the jack-of-all-trades kinda guy. He can do a little bit of everything. He doesn't have the crazy ATP or HP of a HUcast, the MST of a HUnewearl, or the ATA/EVP of a HUcaseal, but he's more balanced.

FOmars, paradoxically, have terribly low ATA, ATP, DFP, and HP, yet can still melee well. They can also support or go for pure techs, if need be.

[SStrikerR]

about the 5/145/0/0 mag...err that only equals 150 dude, and mags can go up to 200. save that last 50 for dex.

[cashizslick]

Yeah thats definately a typo on the mag.

Meant to type 5/145/50/0.

@ Eihwaz,

The only partisian better than the PHF is the Soul Bannish, and untill I find a soul bannish with more ata than my 35h PHF I will not change weapons.

AtA is really important for the fomar, I would much rather have 35h on a PHF than 0 hit on a SBanish.

Fomar's ATA sucks. As such, he is better off meleeing with close range weapons . . . . lvl 30 SD and JZ help greatly with this. Ultimate ruins does not pose too much of a threat.

Also, how is the Holy ray better than the Brifle? The B rifle has a better special, and on PSOBB you can add hit% to it . . . .

[Eihwaz]

On 2008-03-13 12:16, cashizslick wrote:
Also, how is the Holy ray better than the Brifle? The B rifle has a better special, and on PSOBB you can add hit% to it . . . .


Holy Ray is far, far more common, has more stable ATP (which makes up for the slightly higher ATP that Bringer's Rifle provides), has more base ATA, and it doesn't lower your EVP. The main disadvantage of Holy Ray is waiting to get the required 680 MST to equip it. This is, naturally, less of a problem for FOrces than for other classes.

If you're lucky enough to have a Bringer's Rifle, it's a pretty solid weapon. However, its rarity makes it less useful overall than the more common Holy Ray (which I would argue is "better", anyway).

[cashizslick]

How does EVP matter when you are standing a mile away from your target, sniping it with a rifle?

[Nai_Calus]

Stuff doesn't always hold still?

I only ever even notice EVP on RAmarls. >_>; And only if I'm meleeing with one at a reasonable level(Used to do it sometimes with my GC RAmarl). Which is quite possibly the most boring thing in PSO period. The enemies can barely hit you, and you almost never miss. Zzzzz

Bringer's Rifle has a better special, but getting it to hit with a FOmar is a whole 'nother pile of socks. Mind you, OP is offline so for him it doesn't much *matter*, since stuff has such wussy stats offline anyway. (Unless you do multiplayer with yourself and leave one char sitting around...)

And while Plantain Huge Fan may be an improvement over a Soul Eater, there is still the pesky issue of that thing known as 'Oh, no Gallon's Shop, I can't get the Magic Water I need for it'. XD;

And I never had trouble hitting anywhere but Seabed, online, and that was with no Hit % whatsoever. >_>

Though, I must admit that I didn't even bother with putting a special on my S-rank Twin. Wasn't like I was ever going to hit with it. (Of course, I never used special attacks except on Rangers anyway.)

[redtide]

If you play Blue Burst, it is an entirely different story with the Bringer's Rifle. Other FOs may use something like Slicer of Fanatic for demon's purposes, but due to the FOmar's horrid ATA, you're best sticking to Bringer's Rifle. It has very nice ATA to begin with, and up to 50% hit (if you can hunt yourself a few dozen PCs to spend on it) it will hit just about as often as it needs to. As for other weapons, depending on *where* you play Blue Burst... Asteron Belt is going to be (by far) the best choice for your multi-hit close-range weapon. It, too, can have hit%, and should be easier to obtain than Soul Banish (especially one with hit%), but all of those weapons (PHF, Soul Banish, and Asteron Belt) are excellent choices.

One thing you should really look into is a pair of nice Charge mechs and an Excalibur. Although the ATA sucks, you can still do NHS to combo-kill most grunts, and you can still pile tons of damage with Lv30 shifta and zalure by using your mechs on tougher targets, even if you only use the special while they're frozen. Excalibur adds 930 to 950 ATP, and nearly 1000 ATP on a weapon will break any target's defense no matter what character you use it with, with only normal and heavy attacks. FOmar's FO SDJZ and his high solo ATP (better than almost all of the androids while solo) really make these two weapons shine, even if he's blind as a bat.

[Splash]

Like Blue Burst really matters in the first place. The game is so unbalanced, it makes the GC originated weapons look like a joke. Excalibur is "lolz overpowered", making Double Saber worthless on a Force.

[3---Hit---U]

I just got my "baby fomar" into hard after a long and unrelentless battle with falz, only to be ended as my double saber slashed right into his fleshy stomach. He then fell over on my and made me level up. Wow. Now for what REALLY happened. I went up and hit him around 10 times with my Delsaber's Buster :|

[Magus_84]

*********WALL OF TEXT WARNING**********

DANGER DANGER DANGER

PLEASE DO NOT ARGUE IF YOU'RE TOO LAZY TO READ THE ENTIRE THING

Kthx,

-The management



***************************************

Mechguns, generally are better for damage than any other single-target weapon. Once you've got sufficient base ATP (700+), the ATA to hit with them (a high dex mag or lower dex mag and arm units, combined with hit on the mechguns) and preferably boosted LCK. This is due to how the ATP system works. On each hit, you're taking your ATP + the weapon's ATP + any bonuses. In a combo, with three hits (which most of the often-recommended "good" Fomar weapons are), that's basically using your ATP score three times.

Compare this to mechs. A slightly lower ATP score with three times the number of hits will quickly outstrip a three-hit combo weapon, unless the three-hit combo weapon is doing more than 3x the damage of the mechs per hit. Which it won't be once you have a decent base ATP score.

The lag time after the combo isn't really a problem, since you'll generally kill whatever you're aiming at. Fomar with max ATA/ATP/LCK and using his J/Z can combo-kill most grunts, online with mechs, without using specials. Since you're likely offline, it'll be far easier to kill stuff.

The biggest selling point for them, though? 50 hit mechs are buyable from the shop. Compare the ATA of Double Saber vs Gatlings (using Gatlings since they're buyable sooner). Vulcans are buyable in the shops at level 151, but you can have all your Fomar's stats maxed before that point if this isn't your first character and you're smart about mat plans.

Double Saber has 30 base ATA, compared to the Gatling's 9. At Fomar max ATA, that's 193 ATA vs 174. Then you add in that 50 hit Gatlings are buyable from the shop. So the total comes to 193 vs 224. You'd have to find a 30 hit Double Saber to come close to those 50 hit Gatlings you just bought, and 30 hit Double Sabers don't exactly grow on trees.

Then there's the damage aspect. Using level 60 stats (about when you'll be able to equip Double Saber naturally with no ATP boosts)...you end up with 463 modified ATP, combining Fomar's ATP with a fully ground Double Saber. Compare this to the Gatling's 34 ATP when fully ground. That's 275 modified ATP. Using PSO-W's own damage calculator, we can run some numbers.

Against a Very Hard Booma, offline, with level 15 Shifta and Zalure. Far, far below what you'd be fighting when this is an issue, and far below Fomar's cap. I'm doing this to prove a point.

Double Saber:

Normal/Normal Crit/Heavy/Heavy Crit

70 105 133 199

Gatlings:

Normal/Normal Crit/Heavy/Heavy Crit

36 55 69 104

Now. How many times do Double Sabers hit per combo? Let's assume a NNH, with no criticals.

70 x 2 + 70 x 1 + 133 x 3= 609 damage in a combo. This assumes that you safely hit with all three attacks. (Which admittedly, favors the Double Saber, as it's much easier to hit with all three attacks on mechs than it is with a Double Saber).

Now. How many times do Mechguns hit per combo? Let's assume a NNH, with no criticals.

36 x 6 + 69 x 3= 216 + 207 = 423 damage in a combo.

Double Saber wins in damage at level 60. This ignores the higher ATA on the Gatlings (which favors the Double Saber) and the likelihood of safely being able to get off all the attacks (which also favors the Double Saber). Even so, for something with almost 6 times the base ATP, you'd expect more of a damage difference over the combo than around the 1/3rd it came out to.

The above is a great reason to use a Double Saber through Normal-Very hard, if you happen to pick one up. But like techs...high base ATP weapons with limited combos tend to lose out as the level grind goes on.

Now. Let's try this again, at 100. This time, let's assume a mag's being used (the standard I go for when advising people is 5/115/80/0 for pre-150 meleeing). That mag could've reasonably been made by level 60, if this isn't your first character. By 100, it should definitely be made. Fomar's ATP at 100 with the mentioned mag is 610. Double Saber makes it 832. Gatlings make it 644.

Your ATA's higher, so we can likely use a more risky combo now. With the listed mag, you could have maxed ATA by 100, assuming you get a God/Arm or two Elf/Arms. Since God/Arm's pipeable from Very Hard, I wouldn't say that's so farfetched. With the Double Saber, that's 193 ATA. With the Gatlings, that's 222. Let's try NHH. This is where mechgun's higher ATA comes into play.

Since your level's higher, let's also throw in a stronger enemy. Ultimate Bartle, offline. Level 20 S/Z this time.

Double Saber:

Normal/Normal Crit/Heavy/Heavy Crit

134 201 254 381

134 x 2 + 254 x 1 + 254 x 3= 1284 damage in a combo.

Gatlings:

Normal/Normal Crit/Heavy/Heavy Crit

100 151 190 285

100 x 6 + 190 x 3= 1170 damage in a combo

In 40 levels, the damage difference per combo dropped from 186 to 114. Numerical difference doesn't look like that much, does it? But look at what that difference is in the percentage of the combo. Goes from around a 33% difference to around an 11% difference. Surely the more astute readers out there can see where this is going. Also, I'd like to point out that assuming the same combo on both still favors the Double Saber, as the mechs' 29 ATA advantage would help them hit with that middle Heavy a lot more.

Let's continue on to 140, when you can reasonably have all the important stats maxed on your Fomar. (Important, in this case, meaning ATA/ATP/LCK). Fomar would have 1002 ATP, 163 ATA and 100 LCK. He'd end up with 1224 base ATP with the Double Saber vs 1036 with the mechs. Let's go against that same poor Bartle. 'm assuming level 28 S/Z, as that's about the upper limit of tech you'd be able to "reasonably" find by 140, or boost up to with Wizard/Techs or higher variations of that unit series.

With maxed LCK, I'm also going to introduce criticals, as at 100 LCK you tend to get a critical about once every 4 hits, on average. I'll be nice and assume that the Double Saber's crit is on a Heavy attack. Still the same NHH combo.

Double Saber:

Normal/Normal Crit/Heavy/Heavy Crit

256 384 484 726

256 x 2 + 726 x 1 + 484 x 3= 2690 damage in a combo.

Gatlings:

Normal/Normal Crit/Heavy/Heavy Crit

222 333 420 631

222 x 3 + 420 x 2 +631 x 1 + 420 x 2 +631 x 1= 3680 damage in a combo

By this point, the mech is outdamaging the Double Saber by about a thousand points per combo. It's also ranged, meaning you don't have to get so close, and faster to fire. Let's not forget that those 50% hit Gatlings that are shop-buyable by level 100 can also come with a nifty little special called Charge.

Which, by 140, would be ridiculously easy to pay for. On average, expect it to increase your damage from a Heavy attack by about 50%. Even without Charge, Double Saber loses handily in a combo sequence geared towards it. With Charge, it's utterly no contest. Not bad for a shop bought item.


Now, what's the point of all this, you say? Mechguns get better with levels, and once you're at about 120 or so, with a mag and at least some of your mats used, they're going to start outdoing your other available options.

If you're the type who cares more for "style" than substance, then by all means, feel free to use whatever you like. But once you're past a certain point (ie: ready to face the stuff in Ultimate that actually fights back), playing Darth Maul isn't nearly as safe as it is in the gentle embrace of Very Hard Forest. Especially with Fomar's game-lowest HP from levels 85-190, you're not going to want to play around with your enemies too much. The distance and damage of mechguns tend to make them a far safer, far more effective weapon after about 120.

Again, though. You're offline, and no one's likely to see or care what it is you're using. Mainly posting this to point out that the math of the game related to stats changes drastically over the level range from 1-140. ATP is additive, not multiplicative. The damage difference between Double Sabers and mechs is weighted in favor of Double Saber when your base ATP is small, but swings around to make mechs the king after you've got the base ATP to back them up.

Most "melee" purists (the fanboys of the beatsticks) take umbrage at calling a Fomar a "melee" Fomar, yet having them use guns. Proof in this topic, as mech users are called "cowardly". I prefer "able to perform math".

By the time physical damage starts outstripping your techs (once you're above level 100 and playing in Ultimate), the advantages mechs have become far more apparent. Before that point (when you haven't used your mats and you're just occasionally smacking something around in Ult Forest and below), the Double Saber's a fine choice.

However. When you're facing something like an Ill Gill or Gibbles, running in to melee is not a smart choice. The smart fall back on mechguns at this point. The masochistic keep using Double Sabers for their single-target damage. Or Red Sabers. Or fake Agitos. Or Angry Fists. The masochistic and dim use Soul Banish, a multi-target weapon, on everything. Even the single targets.

Other choices that compliment Fomar attacking are pretty similar to that mentioned above.

At the beginning of my online Fomar career, I used a Red Handgun with hit that I'd piped with my offline Ramar.

My "endgame" equips from when I stopped playing around 192 were:

Soul Banish with hit for large groups of grunts.
L&K Combat with hit for killing single enemies and mowing down small groups.
Holy Ray with hit for sniping things in Tower, or getting a first shot in on a distant enemy.

Noticing a pattern? Hit% is a godsend on a Fomar, which is another point in mech's favor. I was a J/Z whore online til my friends and I ended up hunting and finding these.

Along with a sphered Angry Fist with hit (<3 Rappies) for those times I couldn't get off a full mech combo (like on Pouilly Slimes or Deldepths). This was online, in Ultimate.

If you're offline or not in Ultimate, your mileage will vary. IanKun's advice was excellent until he started bashing mechs, and not mechanically incorrect after that. So go with his.

Those who want to burn me in effigy for this post, feel free to. I probably won't be replying for a while. PSU's down, and I'm bored..but I'm not bored enough to engage in an ongoing pointless argument for a nearly dead game with people I won't be able to play with. :/

[Splash]

Hey, it's Sage. o.O Hmm, I won't debate on most of the parts since they are facts that can't be debated out anyways. Of course, all his examples are assuming that each attack of the mechgun hits, which fluctuates how much damage a combo will do. Couple of more points...


On 2008-03-22 17:53, Magus_84 wrote:
If you're the type who cares more for "style" than substance, then by all means, feel free to use whatever you like. But once you're past a certain point (ie: ready to face the stuff in Ultimate that actually fights back), playing Darth Maul isn't nearly as safe as it is in the gentle embrace of Very Hard Forest. Especially with Fomar's game-lowest HP from levels 85-190, you're not going to want to play around with your enemies too much. The distance and damage of mechguns tend to make them a far safer, far more effective weapon after about 120.
Yes true, with respect to using weapons to deal damage. On the other hand, they also have attack techniques as an alternative battle style which, while they are not as effective as using mechguns, is still something to take note of.


Again, though. You're offline, and no one's likely to see or care what it is you're using. Mainly posting this to point out that the math of the game related to stats changes drastically over the level range from 1-140. ATP is additive, not multiplicative. The damage difference between Double Sabers and mechs is weighted in favor of Double Saber when your base ATP is small, but swings around to make mechs the king after you've got the base ATP to back them up.
And ATA for accuracy.


Most "melee" purists (the fanboys of the beatsticks) take umbrage at calling a Fomar a "melee" Fomar, yet having them use guns. Proof in this topic, as mech users are called "cowardly". I prefer "able to perform math".
"Melee", by default, is one that uses a weapon that goes up against a monster in a close-range fight. A FOmar which just uses guns for fighting is not "meleeing". However, a FOmar which utilizes a combination of close-combat weapons and guns would be. In perspective, no character is really a fully "melee" character.


Noticing a pattern? Hit% is a godsend on a Fomar, which is another point in mech's favor. I was a J/Z whore online til my friends and I ended up hunting and finding these.
Which is clearly why Holy Ray is more advantageful than a Bringer's Rifle, since Holy Ray can have an opportunity to get Hit on it.

[NeFlo]

This is top notch FOmar gear:
http://www.freewebs.com/azurepsochars/fomar.htm

Techniques and weapons need only be used appropriately in their ideal situations. Also, using only close range weapons is silly.

[NegaTsukasa]

On 2008-03-09 18:02, TsukasaDCX wrote:
Mechguns
Mechguns are a FOmar's best friend


Woot for Samba Maracas! lol
I like the effect they make. especialy for my current mech.

[DoubleJG]

I say it depends on the situation when it comes to which rifle is better between Holy Ray and Bringer's Rifle.

In standard situations (like Forest runs), H.Ray is probably the better of the two, while Bringer's Rifle is the way to go when running Towers due to its Demon special. What can I say.. I'm a fan of taking things down in 3-5 hits with a gun from afar =)

[NegaTsukasa]

I personaly dont think a fomar can be pure meele. its is quite impossible.

Though, I'm a Multi Skill FOmar. I even everything out as much as possible with my skills, status, and weapons. I use 3 weapon types of every category for different proceeders or situations in battle.

I have 3 rods, 3 swords, and 3 guns.
each one gives off a different effect and edge I need in battle or a certian one.
perhaps you can take some of these items to consideration if you ever get them.

Rods
Psycho Wand (my baby) - attack and primarly for magic boosts.
Striker of Chao- pure attack
Demonic Fork - penetration
______
Swords
G-Assissins Sabers- Multi Strike
S-Rank Scyth- sweeper
Evil Curst- single heavy strike
______
Guns
Red Hand Gun- single shooter/ mid range
Samba Maracas- Multi strike /close range
Bringer Rifle- Power shooter/ Long range
________
those are the weapons I use.
and just as a plus, the armor I use is the Aura Feild.
A great A+ Force armor to use.

My slots are
God/ability
Perfect/Resist
God/Battle
Cure/Paralysis
__________
my mag is also very well evened out in status while keeping ATK a tad higher. I also have another mag on standbye with a more dominate stat incase I want to switch up my advantage a little.

current Sheild- Regen Gear ADV. (switches sheilds every once in a while)
___________________________
It took me about little over 3 1/2 years of semi heck to get where I'm at now with these items (especialy the super rare ones and such).
(last recent and last obtainables were S rank Scyth and Evil curst.)
so maybe what I have are not reachable for you yet if your planning on being a advanced weilder in different styles and possibly a meele FOmar. though you might have some of these items.

The weapons and items I have, at least have suited me very well for meele, ranged, DEF, and magic advantages for a long while. And am comfortable with them. plus I'm suprisingly very strong with what I got.

I see no pure meele, or have seen no pure meele force ever. Though I've seen attempts.

Alote of the items I have are truly effective for a FOmar or partial meele one. Even if the stats look Ironic at the start on some.
This is all I have to share.

hope some of this helps for choices to take for your character.
good luck with pursuing your Meele stature. lol



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NegaTsukasa on 2008-04-06 22:16 ]</font>

[cashizslick]

Hmm.

That wall of text about using mech guns on a fomar . . . how much hit are you assuming the mechs have? You advise buying them from the shops where 50h is the maximum.

Fomar has low ass ata - 50h shop-mechs are not going to be very effective as the special will miss frequently.

[NeFlo]

On 2008-04-06 21:16, DoubleJG3288 wrote:
I say it depends on the situation when it comes to which rifle is better between Holy Ray and Bringer's Rifle.

In standard situations (like Forest runs), H.Ray is probably the better of the two, while Bringer's Rifle is the way to go when running Towers due to its Demon special. What can I say.. I'm a fan of taking things down in 3-5 hits with a gun from afar =)
Holy Ray is the better choice, because FOmar does not have the ATA to use Bringer's Rifle reliably.



On 2008-04-06 22:11, NegaTsukasa wrote:
I personaly dont think a fomar can be pure meele. its is quite impossible.
On 2008-04-04 01:18, NeFlo wrote:Techniques and weapons need only be used appropriately in their ideal situations. Also, using only close range weapons is silly.
Techniques are not for spamming in a party, they are for utility. Generally, Rabarta is to freeze, Gizonde is to lock Vol Opt, Gifoie is to stun, Megid is for quicker kills, and one of the simple techs or Grants is for sniping. Rafoie is really an offline or fallback solo tech. Support techs are there for their own purpose, as well as for tagging.



On 2008-04-06 22:11, NegaTsukasa wrote:
*long, weird list of preferred weapons and their explanation*
I would go through and analyze each weapon individually, but there's really no point. I'll simply re-post this list of much better alternatives:
On 2008-04-04 01:18, NeFlo wrote:This is top notch FOmar gear:
http://www.freewebs.com/azurepsochars/fomar.htm


On 2008-04-07 08:47, cashizslick wrote:That wall of text about using mech guns on a fomar . . . how much hit are you assuming the mechs have? You advise buying them from the shops where 50h is the maximum.
The 80h M&A60 Vise that is obtainable from Nol Roulette is one of the best options you have, though the other mechguns from that series (Justice/Combat) are somewhat usable for their heavy attack damage, provided they have 70% or more Hit. I prefer Charge Vulcan, but mine is not shop bought; 50h will really not be sufficient in more intense situations.

[cashizslick]

On 2008-04-07 10:05, NeFlo wrote:

On 2008-04-07 08:47, cashizslick wrote:That wall of text about using mech guns on a fomar . . . how much hit are you assuming the mechs have? You advise buying them from the shops where 50h is the maximum.
The 80h M&A60 Vise that is obtainable from Nol Roulette is one of the best options you have, though the other mechguns from that series (Justice/Combat) are somewhat usable for their heavy attack damage, provided they have 70% or more Hit. I prefer Charge Vulcan, but mine is not shop bought; 50h will really not be sufficient in more intense situations.



Exactly my point. Magus listed 50h as a viable weapon for a fomar. . . good luck hitting anything besides the sil dragon with the special while playing online.

[NegaTsukasa]

On 2008-04-04 01:18, NeFlo wrote:
This is top notch FOmar gear:
http://www.freewebs.com/azurepsochars/fomar.htm

Techniques and weapons need only be used appropriately in their ideal situations. Also, using only close range weapons is silly.


I've tried that weapon and slot comination befor, and I hated it. It didn't do me well with the situations I get into. some of the weapons I have equiped with me now are on that list. but the entire "what too equipe list" I see has some battle loop holes in it, and I don't follow with it.
this is a narrow approach of just being a FOMAR FOmar with nothing but things to help your magic and barely make you capable of physiclay striking at all.
It is a good set though for another who wishes to approach this statur of equiptions.

perhaps its just the person I am, plus how I fight and what I'm used to and have been used to.
I know what I'm weak against, so I help myself to what I NEED to make me stronger.

the top notch Fomar gear I cannot agree with all that much. though it is properly and closely analyzed. there is just too many loop holes that can leave a Fomar in a "oh crap I wish I had that weapon, armor, or slot item now." situation wich can hurt them in the long run.

most of the weapons I see also on that list are multi strike ranged weapons for swords. those disks can take too long of breaks, plus move you foward per hit. which is not somehting you need when aiming from afar trying to get away from the enemy. FOmars have great DEF and resistences though. which is why I use the Regen Gear ADV. cus I block alote of attacks with my High DEF, which ups my HP if I was hurt befor and recorvers it per strike block.

I like the mech guns which back up the slicer effect. But the mech guns have to long of a break of you being vulnerable per hit unlike single fast shots with shorter pauses.

the scyth I like. its fast moving all together.
the resta merge is ok, though when you get to a high enough level your resta can pretty much heal all of your HP and others around you with out it. plus I dont think that sheild has a solid enough defense comared to others you can get. Attribute Wall is a good one as well. but not GOOD GOOD in my opinion.
the resistances it can pull off are amazing. though, the sacrifice is it only gives you 10% more defense.
the rods are ok though alonge with the armor.

that's all I have to say. I try not too be too indepth. XP
this is just my outlook. I would say these items are wonderful in general. but alote of them and that combo just isn't for me.






<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NegaTsukasa on 2008-04-07 15:48 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NegaTsukasa on 2008-04-07 15:55 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NegaTsukasa on 2008-04-07 15:56 ]</font>

[AlexCraig]

I say let them play how they want to play. There shouldn't be any specific guidelines for how to make a melee FOmar.

[NegaTsukasa]

On 2008-04-07 15:46, AlexCraig wrote:
I say let them play how they want to play. There shouldn't be any specific guidelines for how to make a melee FOmar.


True. The best to do is hone in on your weaknesses.
I showed what I equiped and how I hone in on certian things in the game in an earlier post on here. everyone is going to be a critic over a like or dislike of a character combination like I was with the top notch FOmar gear.
though stats of items do bring up good stats. Its all dependant on wether it suits the user. and since we ar eall different in how we play, there really is no all around perfect combination ( some Facts do remain powerful though). just suggestions.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NegaTsukasa on 2008-04-07 16:02 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NegaTsukasa on 2008-04-07 16:03 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NegaTsukasa on 2008-04-07 22:14 ]</font>

[redtide]

That list of "top-notch" FOmar gear includes everything that you listed, with the exception of the following:

The "Swords" S-Rank Scythe (inferior to Soul Banish), G-Assassin's Sabers (inferior to a Mechgun and/or Soul Banish), and Evil Curst (...).

Also, the "Guns" Red Handgun (inferior to Holy Ray), Bringer's Rifle (inferior to Demon's Raygun and Holy Ray), and Samba Maracas (inferior to any high hit mech, particularly Charge/Berserk Vulcan and M&A60 Vise).

EDIT: In Blue Burst, Bringer's Rifle generally outclasses Holy Ray due to adding hit%, which caps at 50%. Also, Asteron Belt replaces Soul Banish, and Excalibur+Glide Divine keep you from having to WORK to play effectively. Also, even if you disagree with everything I am saying, I'll now ask why you would recommend G-Assassin's Sabers over something like S-Rank Twin (not that either are utterly brilliant choices).



That being said, imagine 100% hit on each of those "optimal" weapons. Those would, by far, be the most effective weapons available to a FOmar in such a situation. Every other single-target weapon is inferior to the Charge Vulcan in any given situation with that much hit%, and that alone rules out almost every other option for FOmar. The other useful pieces of equipment include the Charge Diska and Soul Banish, along with the other utility pieces of equipment, which can still accomplish something that the Charge Vulcan cannot. However, something like Red Handgun is certainly not "top-notch" gear. Rarity is not an issue in terms of absolutes.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: redtide on 2008-04-08 21:02 ]</font>

[Splash]

The point of the Bringer's Rifle is for the long rifle range it gives. Demon's Raygun is almost near pointless on a FOmar unless it has an insane amount of hit to make up for the lack of ATA. A 50 hit will still miss a lot with the special. Holy Ray is better than both either way.

S-rank Twin requires a rediculously high ATP requirement in order for it to be used. G-Assassin Sabers falls short about 100 ATP or so but it can be used at a very low level, thus makes it a suitable close range weapon for a long period time until FOmar can actually use a S-rank Twin.

As awesome as 100% hit might be on a weapon it is extremely unlikely one will get that much. 50hit Charge Vulcan that is shop bought will ultimately be the "best" single-target weapon until a weapon with more hit will suffice.

[cashizslick]

Double Saber > G-assassin Sabers.

[NegaTsukasa]

On 2008-04-08 20:50, redtide wrote:
That list of "top-notch" FOmar gear includes everything that you listed, with the exception of the following:

The "Swords" S-Rank Scythe (inferior to Soul Banish), G-Assassin's Sabers (inferior to a Mechgun and/or Soul Banish), and Evil Curst (...).

Also, the "Guns" Red Handgun (inferior to Holy Ray), Bringer's Rifle (inferior to Demon's Raygun and Holy Ray), and Samba Maracas (inferior to any high hit mech, particularly Charge/Berserk Vulcan and M&A60 Vise).

EDIT: In Blue Burst, Bringer's Rifle generally outclasses Holy Ray due to adding hit%, which caps at 50%. Also, Asteron Belt replaces Soul Banish, and Excalibur+Glide Divine keep you from having to WORK to play effectively. Also, even if you disagree with everything I am saying, I'll now ask why you would recommend G-Assassin's Sabers over something like S-Rank Twin (not that either are utterly brilliant choices).



That being said, imagine 100% hit on each of those "optimal" weapons. Those would, by far, be the most effective weapons available to a FOmar in such a situation. Every other single-target weapon is inferior to the Charge Vulcan in any given situation with that much hit%, and that alone rules out almost every other option for FOmar. The other useful pieces of equipment include the Charge Diska and Soul Banish, along with the other utility pieces of equipment, which can still accomplish something that the Charge Vulcan cannot. However, something like Red Handgun is certainly not "top-notch" gear. Rarity is not an issue in terms of absolutes.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: redtide on 2008-04-08 21:02 ]</font>

yes. The Fomar gear is all good. and your right, there are exceptions or add on's that can be optional too or with the gear. perhaps upgrades as well and
not just what is given. I tried to make that straiht in some one elses head I pm'd back. obviously what I said up top above my previous post here was a huge miss-interpritation. I could have said what you just said instead. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif I was irritable and not thinking real clearely that day I typed it.
I actually have some of the items the gear set has listed and they are adept. but I just add more too it and re arrange a little on it.
the gear is something a Fomar should look into.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NegaTsukasa on 2008-04-09 14:59 ]</font>

[Magus_84]

Sorry, hadn't looked at this topic for a while.

50 hit Charge Vulcans are bad for Charge use, with Fomar's ATA. But even NNH combos with them are significantly more damaging than most other options, with the safety of not being directly in melee range. You can even use NHH combos on lower-EVP enemies or frozen ones, with the ability to occasionally use the special on Bosses.

Since Fomar can eventually combo-kill (kill in one combo) more than half the enemies in the game without using any sacrificial special, it's not as if Charge is "needed". Sacrificials are the way to get the most damage, obviously. And thus, higher hit is always better. But the 50 hit mech-types from the shops aren't a bad starting point.

If you're on BB, this becomes even more apparent, as Smartlink helps greatly.

[jmanshaman]

I'm actually not a fan of double-sabers with my melee FoMarl (which is pretty similar). It seemed too weak for me even at level 75. I bumped up to a Grass Assassin's Sabers, which attacks a little slower but does more damage and is better IMO.

But then again, I could/can be wrong. Won't be the first time

[redtide]

On 2008-04-08 21:49, Splash wrote:
The point of the Bringer's Rifle is for the long rifle range it gives. Demon's Raygun is almost near pointless on a FOmar unless it has an insane amount of hit to make up for the lack of ATA. A 50 hit will still miss a lot with the special. Holy Ray is better than both either way.

S-rank Twin requires a rediculously high ATP requirement in order for it to be used. G-Assassin Sabers falls short about 100 ATP or so but it can be used at a very low level, thus makes it a suitable close range weapon for a long period time until FOmar can actually use a S-rank Twin.

As awesome as 100% hit might be on a weapon it is extremely unlikely one will get that much. 50hit Charge Vulcan that is shop bought will ultimately be the "best" single-target weapon until a weapon with more hit will suffice.



What are you trying to say?

Obviously Holy Ray is better. My point was that Demon's Raygun would be more effective for using the Demon's special. Both of those weapons combined render the Bringer's Rifle completely useless, even if you only use Holy Ray. Also, since extremely high hit Demon's Rayguns exist, it should be noted that they *could* be used well.

Also, 800 ATP is not ridiculous. A long time? Don't make me laugh. Lv160 is not even a quarter of the way to 200, and I had 800 ATP before Lv110 (about 1/25th the EXP required for 200).

Finally, since Nol Roulette can be used to obtain 9-star mechguns with up to 80% hit, any of those would be the best "poor" option for any melee FOmar, depending on your views, but that is another story. Of course, this "poor" is merely the kind that have no access to incredibly rare items, not the kind who are simply struggling with completing the game on Ultimate for the first time.

[Splash]

On 2008-04-09 21:19, redtide wrote:
What are you trying to say?

Obviously Holy Ray is better. My point was that Demon's Raygun would be more effective for using the Demon's special. Both of those weapons combined render the Bringer's Rifle completely useless, even if you only use Holy Ray. Also, since extremely high hit Demon's Rayguns exist, it should be noted that they *could* be used well.
My point is that a Demon's Raygun with less than a certain amount of hit is still just as inferior as a Bringer's Rifle, with respect to how accurate the special would place. Even with 50% hit, the special will still miss a lot, thus the special factor can be neglected completely. The only exception is if the Demon's Raygun had a respectable amount of hit so that the special is able to be used effectively (meaning it is reliable). If it is just used for Normal and hard attacks, there are far more ranged weapons that can be beat it. 80 hit IS possible, just unlikely that you would find a Raygun that has 70 hit percent untekked and will have the Demon special.

Furthermore, I also said that the point of Bringer's Rifle is for the long range. Demon's Raygun lack this range, making it for a poor weapon to be used for range. Bringer's Rifle is a good alternative for Holy Ray, if one can't find a Holy Ray with hit.


Also, 800 ATP is not ridiculous. A long time? Don't make me laugh. Lv160 is not even a quarter of the way to 200, and I had 800 ATP before Lv110 (about 1/25th the EXP required for 200).
The only way to actually have at least 800 ATP on a FOmar under Lv110 would be either:

a) Overly high POW mag (i.e. 5/169/36/0)
b) Standard POW mag (i.e. 5/145/50/0) with ATP boost units or Power mats used

"A" is a pathetic choice since FOmar has insanely low ATA and extra DEX would boost it significantly.
"B" is pathetic because the slot armor could be used for other useful units and using mats just for the sake of using a weapon is pointless also.

I'll admit that it is not hard to get 800 ATP, but between Lv10 and Lv120, it is a long road and with a low ATP requirement, G-Assassin Sabers is a highly suitable close range weapon for a FOmar to use between these levels.


Finally, since Nol Roulette can be used to obtain 9-star mechguns with up to 80% hit, any of those would be the best "poor" option for any melee FOmar, depending on your views, but that is another story. Of course, this "poor" is merely the kind that have no access to incredibly rare items, not the kind who are simply struggling with completing the game on Ultimate for the first time.
And the chances for a 80 hit mechgun obtainable from Roulette is just as hard to get, especially when you have limited amount of coins. Charge Vulcan with 50 hit that can be obtained from the shop is far easier to obtain and acts as a good alternative for weapons with lack of hit.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Splash on 2008-04-09 22:47 ]</font>

[Nitro Vordex]

the only thing I really see wrong with these arguments, is that they assume you have all of this uber stuff.

If you're stuck on weapons, items, or anything of the like, go hunting, or use what you've got.

redtide, I'd really like to know why you bothered to compare G-assassins Sabers with mechguns. The combo for the G-Assassins sabers is quite useful to stun an enemy(or even paralyze), or get in a quick hit and retreat to attack again. those things got me through Very Hard.

As for these outrageous 50%> hit things, jeez. I haven't found any hit things over 50%.

The vulcans, in my opinion, are debatable. Sure, the power is good and all, but the accuracy, coupled with someone starting in Ultimate, it's just not worth it. They'll miss most of the time, and get smacked down almost at the same rate. I use both ideas of attacking, using Techs and weapons. I have a Summit Moon I use to increase MST, along with a God/Mind, with the rest as Angel/Mind++ (Since my luck in finding stuff usually blows hardcore, haven't found anything since my Lavis Cannon). It gets the job done. S/D/J/Z are always great to use, especially with the extra boost with S/D. The weapons I use:

Surpressed Gun: I say this thing was totally worth it, it's the gun I mostly use. no special, but good accuracy, and good for attacking or stalling until I can switch or use techs.

Summit Moon: To increase my tech power. I've made many loopholes by increasing MST with weapons, and it's obviously nothing new, but still great. I can cast with no problem with this, as I do good enough damage.

Angry Fist: Mostly if I just want to speed cast. Sometimes good for monsters, but have to only use first two attacks, usually NH.

I think I have another weapon, but I can't remember at this time.

The mag I use for my FO is 38/60/58/58 (Or something very close to that, I know the POW DEX and MIND are right). Before you go sayin' that mag is a waste, lemme explain.

I was still learning about the game, I didn't have all of the guides to mag farm and waste, what, 6 hours feeding a mag? Nor did I have 6 hours, as I did mostly Multi with my brother, and more recently my mom. I did not care if it was above 100, and I did not know how to change the PBs. Now I know.

I still don't care. I'll play the way I learned. It got me far enough.

tl;dr version: Use what you have, if you want melee, go for something that's built for it. Don't worry over things like 70% omg Hit. If you need it, it will come eventually. If you get too confused by everyone else's posts, then play the way you learned, or play now.

Have fun.http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[AlexCraig]

Nitro, you've made me proud! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Weeaboolits]

Nitro, the OP wants to MELEE on his FOmar, not use techs.

[3---Hit---U]

My FoMar is level 34 or 35 now, is in hard at ruins, can get to vh if i feel like it and uses:

Grass Assassin Sabers
Masters Repeaters (upgraded to 30 h% gatlings when he can use them)
Sould Eater
Diska of Liberator

Armor:
4 slot some frame >_>

2 Elf arm +
1 General power++
1 Angel mind +

[Splash]

On 2008-04-09 23:38, Nitro_Vordex wrote:
the only thing I really see wrong with these arguments, is that they assume you have all of this uber stuff.
Uber =/= hard to get. Charge Vulcan (or mechgun series) with 50 hit can be bought from the shop which outranks most other single-strike weapons.


redtide, I'd really like to know why you bothered to compare G-assassins Sabers with mechguns. The combo for the G-Assassins sabers is quite useful to stun an enemy(or even paralyze), or get in a quick hit and retreat to attack again. those things got me through Very Hard.
G-Assassin Sabers is naturally not comparable to a Mechgun anyways, in terms of the function of each. G-Assassin Sabers is a clear melee weapon which is sufficient in lower levels; mechgun do not.


As for these outrageous 50%> hit things, jeez. I haven't found any hit things over 50%.
Your luck, not the others.


The vulcans, in my opinion, are debatable. Sure, the power is good and all, but the accuracy, coupled with someone starting in Ultimate, it's just not worth it. They'll miss most of the time, and get smacked down almost at the same rate.
Vulcan itself is useless. Vulcan with hit (specifically at least 50%) is awesome.


I use both ideas of attacking, using Techs and weapons. I have a Summit Moon I use to increase MST, along with a God/Mind, with the rest as Angel/Mind++ (Since my luck in finding stuff usually blows hardcore, haven't found anything since my Lavis Cannon). It gets the job done. S/D/J/Z are always great to use, especially with the extra boost with S/D.
Mind units are useless. The difference in damage output on techs is very little that it doesn't even matter.


The weapons I use:

Surpressed Gun: I say this thing was totally worth it, it's the gun I mostly use. no special, but good accuracy, and good for attacking or stalling until I can switch or use techs.
With hit, it surpasses any normal Rayguns. A decent choice, but not the best.


Summit Moon: To increase my tech power. I've made many loopholes by increasing MST with weapons, and it's obviously nothing new, but still great. I can cast with no problem with this, as I do good enough damage.
FOmars have no natural boost for simple techs so Summit Moon is just merely boosting back up what it lacks. A better alternative would be a wand that would boost Gi-techs so it does more damage. Sorcerer's Cane is a good choice for this.


Angry Fist: Mostly if I just want to speed cast. Sometimes good for monsters, but have to only use first two attacks, usually NH.
Weak melee weapon, there are far better alternatives, although being barehanded is indeed a benefit for speed casting.