JP PC/PS2 update for March 27 (Master types released!) [Archive] - Page 4

Inazuma

Mar 28, 2008, 06:41 PM

from the wiki:
(btw there is some info missing)

foie
- gains 2% a level
- SE stays at lv 4
- 19 pp

deega
- gains 2% a level
- SE stays at lv 4
- 19 pp

barta
- gains 1% a level
- SE increases to lv 3

zonde
- gains 1% a level
- SE increases to lv 3
- 26 pp

megido
- gains 1% a level
- SE increases to lv 4
- 48 pp

rabarta
- gains 1% a level
- SE increases to lv 4
- 38 pp

razonde
- gains 1% a level
- SE increases to lv 4
- 38 pp

radeega
- gains 1% a level
- 38 pp

ramegido
- gains 1% a level
- SE stays at lv 3
- 38 pp

damufoie
- gains 2% a level
- SE stays at lv 3
- 31 pp

damubarta
- gains 2% a level
- SE stays at lv 4
- 28 pp

damudeega
- gains 2% a level
- SE stays at lv 4
- 28 pp

damumegido
- gains 2% a level
- SE stays at lv 3
- 31 pp

gifoie
- gains 2% a level
- SE stays at lv 3
- 52 pp

gibarta
- gains 2% a level
- SE increases to lv 4
- 52 pp

gizonde
- gains 2% a level
- SE increases to lv 4
- 52 pp

gideega
- gains 2% a level
- 52 pp

nosuzonde
- gains 3% a level
- SE stays at lv 3
- 55 pp

nosumegido
- gains 3% a level
- SE stays at lv 3
- 55 pp

regrants
- gains 3% a level
- 21 pp

megiverse
- gains 2% a level
- SE stays at lv 3
- 42 pp

and one last bit of info for the ATs:
giresta's HP regen increases to lv 4 at lv 41

LeMan_Bayon

Mar 28, 2008, 07:05 PM

Very nice. What part of the wiki did you get it from? On the technique page I still only see the old values. And thse Gi spell costs are pretty high now!

Telina

Mar 28, 2008, 08:23 PM

heeey........it looks like that te tech/save my buddy gave me as a gift will be pretty sweet later on.....or if i can save up more for a red/force....or maybe i'll just pretend i'm a spell-wielding gattling...gun...techer...thing.....o.O excitement caused mah head to stop.

gamewarp

Mar 28, 2008, 08:54 PM

On 2008-03-28 17:05, LeMan_Bayon wrote:
What part of the wiki did you get it from? On the technique page I still only see the old values.suimasen.sakura.ne.jp (http://suimasen.sakura.ne.jp/aaaphp/index.php?DB%2F%A5%D5%A5%A9%A5%C8%A5%F3%A5%A2%A1%B C%A5%C4%2F%A5%C6%A5%AF%A5%CB%A5%C3%A5%AF)

Dein

Mar 29, 2008, 12:12 AM

I was finally able to get back onto the uploader again and found a funny image related to the Master Classes.

http://moemi.mithra.to/~psu/uploader/src/psu13542.jpg
It's an edited (fake) picture about upcoming changes to the master classes. Despite that some of the changes wouldn't be bad at all. Handguns and Knuckles added to FM, Grenade Launchers added to GM, and Handguns with lvl 30 support tech cap added to MF. There's something about A to S as well but I can't read what it would be exactly.

EspioKaos

Mar 29, 2008, 12:24 AM

On 2008-03-28 22:12, Dein wrote:
There's something about A to S as well but I can't read what it would be exactly.

"The S-only restriction is changed to allow A-S equipment." But yeah, like you said, fake. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

suchalush13

Mar 29, 2008, 01:14 AM

i have a question: if you are a fighmaster can you use the storm line?

LeMan_Bayon

Mar 29, 2008, 02:21 AM

On 2008-03-28 23:14, suchalush13 wrote:
i have a question: if you are a fighmaster can you use the storm line?

No, they can't.

POST VIDEOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
And here is a video of some fighmaster speed tests. This will have to hold you over until someone makes a better one and has more PA's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CudksoGpj-s

Freshellent

Mar 29, 2008, 02:30 AM

Thanks for the vid man. I'm glad to see sword actually move with some speed. I get the "scifi/fantasy" vibe that I expected from it. Big weapons in games should almost always move unaturally quick IMO.

FOnewearl-Lina

Mar 29, 2008, 02:51 AM

Jabroga don't travel as far on a FM as it does on a FF... FM ain't got no air!

RadiantLegend

Mar 29, 2008, 02:55 AM

ZOMFG!!!

Are you sure that wasnt on fast forward?

~JAW DROPS~

edit: jabroga(fF) on ps2 aint got no air either.

[ This Message was edited by: Ragolismine on 2008-03-29 00:57 ]

Xaeris

Mar 29, 2008, 03:05 AM

Holy **** @ Redda.

RemiusTA

Mar 29, 2008, 09:03 AM

Holy **** dude

That speed can outdamage Fortefighter anyday. Redda is retarded fast, and jarbroken has to be at like half the warmup time.

All we need to see now is Masterforce changes

[ This Message was edited by: RemiusTA on 2008-03-29 07:04 ]

EspioKaos

Mar 29, 2008, 10:37 AM

Thanks for the video, LeMan; I've added it to the initial post.

Telina

Mar 29, 2008, 12:22 PM

wooo, congrats to this topic for overtaking the SS and movie thread in sheer size http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

I can't wait to see how broken-fast the masterforce is with a har/quick on @_@

Jarek

Mar 29, 2008, 12:55 PM

On 2008-03-28 16:41, Inazuma wrote:
from the wiki:
*snip*

Ah, thanks for that.
I laughed at regrant additional 30%. They must seriously want us to be suicidal.

Can probably have all my offensive techs to 40 by the time we get these..14/23 attack techs are over 31 already.

Zorafim

Mar 29, 2008, 01:12 PM

On 2008-03-29 00:21, LeMan_Bayon wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CudksoGpj-s

I change my mind. I wanna be a fighmaster now.

chicken105

Mar 29, 2008, 01:45 PM

i wana see gravity break and tornado dance on FM D:

SStrikerR

Mar 29, 2008, 03:43 PM

I might stay fighgunner for a while after this update...for one, I dont have any S rank armors, second, I dont have any S rank swords, and third, that fighgunner update is too sweet to pass up. And I think the expert classes got their updates so people could solo with them easier, and master classes ONLY got weapons of their kind so you'd be forced to play with others to make the best outta them. Although I must say I fear a jabroga-wielding fighmaster with jabroga at 50. 50k damage anyone? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

AlphaMinotaux

Mar 29, 2008, 05:01 PM

So would we get this update in like 3 months? like around the same time line that we got mag?

Sol_B4dguy

Mar 29, 2008, 06:21 PM

Whoo, just need an S armor and I can jump into Fighmaster!

Caboose is ALL set for Gunmaster. Can't wait to spam lasers like no tomorrow.

SStrikerR

Mar 29, 2008, 06:25 PM

On 2008-03-29 15:01, AlphaMinotaux wrote:
So would we get this update in like 3 months? like around the same time line that we got mag?

In a few months, yes, we will get it, unless there's a rollback.

777 post in this thread http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

edit: someone's post got deleted so now im 776 http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif

[ This Message was edited by: Ryan113 on 2008-03-29 18:39 ]

Chaobo99

Mar 29, 2008, 07:28 PM

lol how fast does Master Techer cast all 4 pf his silly lv.10 buffs with har/quick and wand/madoog combo xD

Golto

Mar 29, 2008, 08:32 PM

I think we will be getting these master types sooner than 3 months from now. There isn't much left for us to get after MAG since we get these big events in longer intervals than JPN pc/ps2 we get some stuff sooner.

SStrikerR

Mar 29, 2008, 08:40 PM

On 2008-03-29 18:32, Golto wrote:
I think we will be getting these master types sooner than 3 months from now. There isn't much left for us to get after MAG since we get these big events in longer intervals than JPN pc/ps2 we get some stuff sooner.

All depends on if sega screws up/needs a rollback/whatever by that time or not, because that will delay them.

chicken105

Mar 29, 2008, 09:07 PM

What are we missing? Besides that bil de malen mission, HSM (before event).

Kamica

Mar 29, 2008, 09:13 PM

You guys have been waiting for it. Wait no longer, it's here!

Masterforce vs. Fortetecher

YouTube Verison:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fUkLYc1vr8

High Quality Version:
http://www.phantasystarmonthly.com/techcomp.avi

[ This Message was edited by: Kamica on 2008-03-29 19:31 ]

Poncho_Jr

Mar 29, 2008, 09:18 PM

Ohhhhh my Gawd!!!!!
And that's ONLY on a Rod!!!!
I'm a Madoog/Wand user man mehself... so that'd be pretty fwiggin quick.
Now add Masterforce+Madoog+Level 41 Gi-TECHs=????

EspioKaos

Mar 29, 2008, 09:37 PM

On 2008-03-29 19:13, Kamica wrote:
You guys have been waiting for it. Wait no longer, it's here!

Masterforce vs. Fortetecher

YouTube Verison:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fUkLYc1vr8

High Quality Version:
http://www.phantasystarmonthly.com/techcomp.avi

Very impressive! (Also, added to the first post.)

The_Brimada

Mar 29, 2008, 09:41 PM

That is pretty damn fast.

str898mustang

Mar 29, 2008, 09:50 PM

O.O definately going masterforce!

Mikura

Mar 29, 2008, 10:09 PM

Hmm, the speed increase looks like it'll make up for the lower stats compared to the Forte classes...I suppose I'll give them a try when they're released. Looks promising so far.

RemiusTA

Mar 29, 2008, 10:56 PM

Okay, everyone who argued against my point can now kindly bend over

I actually didnt expect masterforce to be that fast. Masterforce STANDARD speed is faster than Fortetecher Har/Quick.

Madoog speed must be retarded.

chicken105

Mar 29, 2008, 11:02 PM

now that's a diga machinegun! nosdiga machinegun would be even better! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

NDW

Mar 30, 2008, 12:43 AM

On 2008-03-29 21:02, chicken105 wrote:
now that's a diga machinegun! nosdiga machinegun would be even better! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Speaking of Diga and guns, reminds me of when I thought of a shotgun that could shoot it out and I called it the "Shigga Diga". I bet other people have thought of this too http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif.

Kairi_Li

Mar 30, 2008, 03:30 AM

Kietrinia

Mar 30, 2008, 09:07 AM

..o.o

I think I'm sold http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

Arika

Mar 30, 2008, 09:12 AM

lol, this thread is indeed popular http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif , 52 pages

FireHero

Mar 30, 2008, 12:32 PM

well i realy dont see what would make these classes worth the hassel cause one you would need to have a good set of armour and wepons befor you start and the extra use of pp for abit of speed sounds fair but there not even a full pallet of diffrant wepon types i mean thay might be ok in the end but if thats what thay are am not inpressed (Twin sabers all the way)

Andy1423

Mar 31, 2008, 09:53 AM

well i realy dont see what would make these classes worth the hassel cause one you would need to have a good set of armour and wepons

UMMM SPEED. DPS matters kid. Who the hell cares if you can hit the creature 4 times before they can even get to you. As far as weapons go, you don't need amazing weaponry. Just start collecting good weapons and make them permanet on your pallet til you have more. Work on your skills in the mean time, you can level them up to 50! Make's a huge difference on the weapon your currently using.

[ This Message was edited by: Andy1423 on 2008-03-31 08:01 ]

Zorafim

Mar 31, 2008, 12:18 PM

Now, what does the PP penalty look like? Is it like using a power charge? If so, I guess I'm going to have to upgrade my skill save. I really do like saving my PP, you know...
Also, this may cause a problem with lances. At least, it'll make me have to switch over to yohmeis, or something of the sort. From what I gather from them, lances are best used for quick DpS in exchange for a poor PP usage (at least, post expansion). Now, the DpS will increase with the speed boost, but so will the poor PP usage. I suppose a good stratagy for myself would be to have to be to use both a tenora and yohmei lance, start off with the tenora for damage, then switch to the yohmei for more general use...
This should help axes and swords, though. The problem with them was always their incredibly slow normal attack speed. This made it difficult to get PP back from them. With this speed boost, their attack speed really isn't that bad, so they can get back PP pretty quickly now. Especially considering how much axes get back per JA, and how many targets sword can hit.
Double Sabers have pretty good PP usage, so it doesn't look like I'll have to worry much about them dieing out on me. I'd more have to worry about finding the situation in which I'd use them, though with PAs are useful as spiral and tornado, I'm sure I can find a place...

Oops, did I start rambling again? Anyway, the limitations on these classes are starting to make sense considering the attack speed. As a fortefighter, I only use handguns against bosses and some flying enemies, seeing how melee weapons work well even against melee resistant enemies. It's a shame I'll have to switch classes for hunting certain rares, seeing how it's just not feasible to try to attack de rol le or onmagoug with just melee weapons, but at least I'll be able to use my fighgunner outfit more often.

pikachief

Mar 31, 2008, 12:26 PM

But zorafirm i think spiral is one of the more effective Double Saber PAs.... it has a more straight forward concentrated attack and it will not your enemies back, yes, but not as much as gravity dance or tornado dance. i stopped using gravity dance cuz id get in the center of enemies, do really good damage, but them spread them all out so i couldn't do it just as effectively again :/

The main thing i wanted to see speed boosts on was axes, swords, and absolute dance. The first Part of the PA ruins it completely. Its really strong and all, but the first part takes so long to get done with it just isnt helpful in most situations. Im hoping fighmaster will fix this problem :/

Haruhila

Mar 31, 2008, 12:33 PM

Only 4 weapons for Fighmaster? I find that kinda underwhelming, especially since out of all of those I'm only good with Axes and Doublesabers. Would have been nice if fist weapons were kept in.

Zorafim

Mar 31, 2008, 12:37 PM

On 2008-03-31 10:26, pikachief wrote:
But zorafirm i think spiral is one of the more effective Double Saber PAs....

Didn't I say that...?

And why do people keep on thinking there's an r in my name?

panzer_unit

Mar 31, 2008, 01:19 PM

On 2008-03-31 10:33, Haruhila wrote:
Only 4 weapons for Fighmaster? I find that kinda underwhelming, especially since out of all of those I'm only good with Axes and Doublesabers. Would have been nice if fist weapons were kept in.

Between Fighmaster, Acrofighter, and Acrotecher (ForteWhipper, remember?) every melee weapon has at least one job that can use 'em with a speed boost... although AF only has A-ranks for its twin weapons.

That's kinda cool.

It's too bad Protranser still has poor stats/speed/PP usage ... they sort of fit in with the "perfect team" jobs (masters & acros) for being the only guys with EX traps, and I guess their stats aren't TOO bad compared to Master types (good HP, EVP, STA) but they've got to look awfully goofy in combat being the only ones with no speed boost.

amtalx

Mar 31, 2008, 02:10 PM

Seeing Gunmasters fire Laser Cannons like a kid with Tourette's has definetly sapped my desire to go PT, but I'll probably do it anyway. I fear the EX traps are going to get less and less useful as we get more classes and ST contiues thier refusal of giving us harder enemies.

pikachief

Mar 31, 2008, 02:41 PM

On 2008-03-31 10:37, Zorafim wrote:

On 2008-03-31 10:26, pikachief wrote:
But zorafirm i think spiral is one of the more effective Double Saber PAs....

Didn't I say that...?

And why do people keep on thinking there's an r in my name?

sorry i think it was cuz u and a character named zorafirm i was thinking of that >.>

and u said Spiral and Tornado. i saw tornado so i assumed u were being sarcastic lol

also now i feel like an idiot for selling my 2 svaltus swords, agito repca, 50% electric moatoob sword and my kan yu >.<

TIME TO START HUNTING AGAIN! lol ._.

[ This Message was edited by: pikachief on 2008-03-31 12:42 ]

biggabertha

Mar 31, 2008, 05:16 PM

Tenora LongSwords can't be used by Fighmasters... At least not with the current limitations. Knowing how many people will whine about this, it won't be long before things are changed around.

panzer_unit

Apr 1, 2008, 08:50 AM

On 2008-03-31 15:16, biggabertha wrote:
Tenora LongSwords can't be used by Fighmasters... At least not with the current limitations. Knowing how many people will whine about this, it won't be long before things are changed around.

Yeah 'cause using a sword that doesn't even have enough battery for 3 Tornado Break combos is awesome.

Trust me, there's going to be a HUGE rush on Svaltus Swords when Fighmaster comes out.

Zorafim

Apr 1, 2008, 03:01 PM

On 2008-03-31 12:41, pikachief wrote:
and u said Spiral and Tornado. i saw tornado so i assumed u were being sarcastic lol

I've been dieing to use tornado while soloing as a fortefighter, or a PA like it. There are so many enemies that are significantly more dangerous than others in a mission, and a PA like this would help me tremendously.

As for the extra R, one of my sigs, made by another member, added that r to my name in the sig for some reason. I guess people look at sig names more than forum names, causing confusion.

[ This Message was edited by: Zorafim on 2008-04-01 13:02 ]

Shiro_Ryuu

Apr 1, 2008, 10:12 PM

On 2008-04-01 06:50, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2008-03-31 15:16, biggabertha wrote:
Tenora LongSwords can't be used by Fighmasters... At least not with the current limitations. Knowing how many people will whine about this, it won't be long before things are changed around.

Yeah 'cause using a sword that doesn't even have enough battery for 3 Tornado Break combos is awesome.

Trust me, there's going to be a HUGE rush on Svaltus Swords when Fighmaster comes out.

I'm already wanting one badly, but its mostly cuz it looks cool.

Dein

Apr 2, 2008, 12:05 AM

Alright, the JP wiki finally got some info up about several striking PAs past lvl 40, this'll only be for the initial combo for some of these skills as it takes some time for them to figure out the atp modifiers for the other parts of some PAs. Anyway, I'll start with some of the more used PAs:

Dus Majarra lvl 41-50: Atp 186%~195% Acc 83%~92%
Absolute Dance 41-50: Atp 431%~440% Acc 91%~100%
Tornado Dance 41-50: Atp 262%~280% Acc 77%~95% The PP usage (46 for FM) doesn't go up for TD past 40.
Gravity Break 41-50: Atp 422%~440% Acc 81%~90%
Ank Jabroga 41-50: Atp 411%~420% Acc 86%~95% The PP usage for FM actually goes down to 65 past 40 but...

Every other PA is keeping their normal growth trends for the first combo at least, but I can't honestly say I've seen any large, or noticeable, growths in the other parts of the combos for Absolute Dance or Dus Majarra and they're both lvl 45 at least for me now. I honestly expected that Jabroga though would continue its trend of ATP growth ...but yay more acc? This info really hurts any argument that FM can out damage fF in my eyes and I was honestly beginning to think that with a little work a FM could outpace a fF if the PAs had good growth past 40. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

bLOODSAW

Apr 2, 2008, 01:02 AM

oh god jabroga's leveling rate past 40 is terribly dissapointing....

Yeah after seeing those numbers on the pa growth past 41 that just made FM a little... ok a LOT less appealing that i previously thought...

As for gunmaster? I think ill love it as long as i can eventually get my hands on the s rank bullet pp save unit.

Masterforce has me a little torn... Unless it has an ZOMGWTFSAMMICH amazing tp modifier or the tp% growth for 41+ techs is utterly amazing, im not sure if i wanna be one...

Plus from a video i saw, it seems a fortetcher with a har quick casts a little faster than a MF without one. And my gripe with MF is the whole "pp useage suffering" thing... I mean a MF with a har quick sounds... kinda scary (to other people's framerates XD) in terms of nuking the ever loving shit out of enemies with crazy high level spells, but i feel that if i dont have a pp save unit on, then im going to burn through pp so fast my head will spin. But that means if i equip a pp save unit... no quick unit...

Eh maybe the s rank pp save unit will help so i can keep my head slot open for the quick unit...

[ This Message was edited by: bLOODSAW on 2008-04-01 23:04 ]

panzer_unit

Apr 2, 2008, 08:09 AM

On 2008-04-01 22:05, Dein wrote:
Every other PA is keeping their normal growth trends for the first combo at least, but I can't honestly say I've seen any large, or noticeable, growths in the other parts of the combos for Absolute Dance or Dus Majarra and they're both lvl 45 at least for me now. I honestly expected that Jabroga though would continue its trend of ATP growth ...but yay more acc? This info really hurts any argument that FM can out damage fF in my eyes and I was honestly beginning to think that with a little work a FM could outpace a fF if the PAs had good growth past 40. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

Watch something obscure like Dus Daggas get a lucky break on growth and become the definitive FM skill :

Dus Daggas: Oh! From behind! > Everyone

Intetresting about what you've seen so far though. I see FM's speed boost as an advantage that goes beyond simply boosting the number of hits you're cranking out, if it helps land complete combos uninterrupted that's a huge advantage.

Shiro_Ryuu

Apr 2, 2008, 08:38 AM

Wow, Anga Jabroga's growth rate isn't so hot, but I'm sure I'll be fine with it. Fighmaster still has the speed boost, a high speed Jabroga is definitely no laughing matter.

FOnewearl-Lina

Apr 2, 2008, 09:24 AM

On 2008-04-01 22:05, Dein wrote:
This info really hurts any argument that FM can out damage fF in my eyes and I was honestly beginning to think that with a little work a FM could outpace a fF if the PAs had good growth past 40. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

You're thinking too hard, FM is already more than capable of outperforming fF in most situations.

amtalx

Apr 2, 2008, 09:30 AM

On 2008-04-01 23:02, bLOODSAW wrote:
oh god jabroga's leveling rate past 40 is terribly dissapointing....

Expecting more hax from Jabroga is a bit greedy don't you think? I would gladly accept a few less points per hit for a turbo button, which is the only real downside to Jabroga to begin with.

Dein

Apr 2, 2008, 09:39 AM

On 2008-04-02 06:09, panzer_unit wrote:
Intetresting about what you've seen so far though. I see FM's speed boost as an advantage that goes beyond simply boosting the number of hits you're cranking out, if it helps land complete combos uninterrupted that's a huge advantage.

Actually, the chance your combo will be uninterrupted is low already thanks to the unbelievably low evade stat on FM. Unfortunately, when you couple this with low defense and HP, you get a class that is far too easily killed.

panzer_unit

Apr 2, 2008, 10:03 AM

On 2008-04-02 07:39, Dein wrote:

On 2008-04-02 06:09, panzer_unit wrote:
Intetresting about what you've seen so far though. I see FM's speed boost as an advantage that goes beyond simply boosting the number of hits you're cranking out, if it helps land complete combos uninterrupted that's a huge advantage.

Actually, the chance your combo will be uninterrupted is low already thanks to the unbelievably low evade stat on FM. Unfortunately, when you couple this with low defense and HP, you get a class that is far too easily killed.

I mean without being hit, especially against stuff that will hit and send you flying :

Andy1423

Apr 2, 2008, 10:15 AM

I don't know. I mean there are certain weapons with special abilites i.e. HP steal. On a ForteFighter these advantages are harder to gain since the speed is relitivly slow. However, these types of special attributes would be amplified when pairing with very fast attk speed. All of a sudden a mild extra effect becomes very robust one, thus giving yet another advantage to the MASTER class.

Unenterupted attacks are just the tip of the iceburg. Plus, don't forget that theres probably MasterFighter only armor or class specific items in the works.

[ This Message was edited by: Andy1423 on 2008-04-02 08:18 ]

Zorafim

Apr 2, 2008, 12:14 PM

On 2008-04-02 06:09, panzer_unit wrote:
Watch something obscure like Dus Daggas get a lucky break on growth and become the definitive FM skill

Yes please.

Dein

Apr 2, 2008, 01:51 PM

On 2008-04-02 07:24, FOnewearl-Lina wrote:

On 2008-04-01 22:05, Dein wrote:
This info really hurts any argument that FM can out damage fF in my eyes and I was honestly beginning to think that with a little work a FM could outpace a fF if the PAs had good growth past 40. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

You're thinking too hard, FM is already more than capable of outperforming fF in most situations.

So if I stop thinking then the problems with FM will just go away? This statement is making my brain hurt trying to make any sense out of it.

I don't know. I mean there are certain weapons with special abilites i.e. HP steal. On a ForteFighter these advantages are harder to gain since the speed is relitivly slow. However, these types of special attributes would be amplified when pairing with very fast attk speed. All of a sudden a mild extra effect becomes very robust one, thus giving yet another advantage to the MASTER class.

Unenterupted attacks are just the tip of the iceburg. Plus, don't forget that theres probably MasterFighter only armor or class specific items in the works.

Actually, there are no S rank Axes, Spears, Swords, or Doublesabers that have any special ability added onto them, let alone HP steal, that we can obtain or even know of at the moment. I believe so far the only weapons that steal HP anyway are Nei Claw and Sange and those are B and A ranked weapons. Speaking of master class only gear is getting pretty ahead of things considering ST still hasn't released a lot of 12 star weapons and armors that have been in the game data since V1 but I wouldn't be surprised if there is gear like that in the distant future.

ljkkjlcm9

Apr 2, 2008, 02:01 PM

The sweet death doublesaber causes the sleep SE... so your statement about none of them having a special ability is incorrect

THE JACKEL

panzer_unit

Apr 2, 2008, 02:29 PM

Agito Repca causes SE2 jealousy. SE4 at high grind levels.

Inazuma

Apr 2, 2008, 02:57 PM

this one is for you dein (^_^)
http://www.mithra.to/~psu/uploader/src/psu13675.jpg

XDeathX

Apr 2, 2008, 03:05 PM

On 2008-04-02 07:30, amtalx wrote:

On 2008-04-01 23:02, bLOODSAW wrote:
oh god jabroga's leveling rate past 40 is terribly dissapointing....

Expecting more hax from Jabroga is a bit greedy don't you think? I would gladly accept a few less points per hit for a turbo button, which is the only real downside to Jabroga to begin with.

You act as if this game was made by a different group of developers. Since when do PAs have terrible leveling rates. Since when do event drops not be affected by the games increased drop rate (Love Inferno). Since when does anything change in the game?

I expected Jabroga to be as powerful as the FFs Jabroga if not more powerful because ITS SEGA!

So what does greed have to do with anything especially since this is not the old PSU when things were hard and unexpected. Youre just letting SEGA walk all over you by accepting everything they throw at ya and when they do the unexpected, people are just greedy? Well, if they are, blame SEGA. When you are given everything on a silver platter, what do ye expect. Its not greed, its SEGA!

majan

Apr 2, 2008, 04:00 PM

when and where did the master class information get released?Ive been searching all over the forum and I cant seem to find any info. could someone post me with a link please?

EspioKaos

Apr 2, 2008, 04:01 PM

http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=172448&forum=20&819

majan

Apr 2, 2008, 04:03 PM

fabbalus. thanks.

JAFO22000

Apr 2, 2008, 04:20 PM

Master classes can't buy S-rank weapons in NPC shops.....just sayin'!

Randomness

Apr 2, 2008, 04:38 PM

No, but theres cheap S ranks in all of those categories anyways.

FOnewearl-Lina

Apr 2, 2008, 05:28 PM

On 2008-04-02 11:51, Dein wrote:
So if I stop thinking then the problems with FM will just go away? This statement is making my brain hurt trying to make any sense out of it.
That's cause you're still thinking too hard; Whining about loss of Base ATP and low stat gains past PA40 when your weapon and arm unit should be making up just about half of your total ATP, it's perfectly balanced the way it is.
If you're that worried about the damage you do, get yourself a 50% axe and a repca, grind them up to 10, and you're set. Open with Jabroga and close with TBreak and you'll still be killing faster than a fF, spam Tornado Dance on long desolate maps and you'll be halfway across the map before anyone can even hope to catch up.

On 2008-04-02 12:57, Inazuma wrote:
this one is for you dein (^_^)
http://www.mithra.to/~psu/uploader/src/psu13675.jpg

Memories of TAing as a fF during muryou days come flooding back, ahhh those were the days. Then they nerfed chikki...

On 2008-04-02 12:29, panzer_unit wrote:
Agito Repca causes SE2 jealousy. SE4 at high grind levels.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/FoLina/PSU/1024/psu20080130_034120_003x.jpg
And max grind is SE5, no? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

chicken105

Apr 2, 2008, 05:28 PM

so wait, jerewbajarabajabroken only goes up 1% per lvl past 40? btw, what color are the photon in the photon art. like green->blue->purple->red->yellow?

EDIT: I WANT THAT REPCA! Highest so far out of my 8 agitos are a 8/10 14% ice. So... if that one is 14% let's hope there will be another 14% made! *waits till MAG*

[ This Message was edited by: chicken105 on 2008-04-02 15:30 ]

Umberger

Apr 2, 2008, 05:37 PM

On 2008-04-02 15:28, chicken105 wrote:
so wait, jerewbajarabajabroken only goes up 1% per lvl past 40? btw, what color are the photon in the photon art. like green->blue->purple->red->yellow?

I believe in the beta level 41+ PAs were closer to a whitish color.

chicken105

Apr 2, 2008, 05:41 PM

well yea. like a color of the flashing star on 13*+ items right?

Umberger

Apr 2, 2008, 06:13 PM

On 2008-04-02 15:41, chicken105 wrote:
well yea. like a color of the flashing star on 13*+ items right?

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f369/Akukame/image00001556.jpg

Credit for the pic goes to Itsuki-chan.

EDIT: Eh, on second thought I guess it is kinda more yellowish...goldish...I dunno. =p

[ This Message was edited by: Umberger on 2008-04-02 16:13 ]

chicken105

Apr 2, 2008, 06:14 PM

thanks. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif red is still better IMO >_>

Reginaldo

Apr 2, 2008, 07:09 PM

I love the color for 41+.

Dein

Apr 2, 2008, 09:00 PM

On 2008-04-02 15:28, FOnewearl-Lina wrote:

On 2008-04-02 11:51, Dein wrote:
So if I stop thinking then the problems with FM will just go away? This statement is making my brain hurt trying to make any sense out of it.
That's cause you're still thinking too hard; Whining about loss of Base ATP and low stat gains past PA40 when your weapon and arm unit should be making up just about half of your total ATP, it's perfectly balanced the way it is.
If you're that worried about the damage you do, get yourself a 50% axe and a repca, grind them up to 10, and you're set. Open with Jabroga and close with TBreak and you'll still be killing faster than a fF, spam Tornado Dance on long desolate maps and you'll be halfway across the map before anyone can even hope to catch up.

What I'm arguing is that as a FM, if you use an attack boosting unit you've got to deal with the extra PP you spend when you're attacking and that 30% extra PP cost can add up fast if you don't pace yourself, basically slowing down the biggest source of a fighter's damage. Meanwhile, a fF can use their PAs more often without needing to resort to normal attacks to refill their PP while using the same attack boosting units. I really feel that right now in a tough mission a FM will have a harder time than a fF and even a FI.

I had forgotten about Sweet Death having sleep and didn't know Agito Repca had a SE so now I'm curious about what it is. Still, at the moment there isn't a weapon with HP steal in the categories of weapons a FM can use unless that happens to be what Agito has. Also, I've seen pics of people doing TA on the White Beast w/e and clearing in 5 mins on S but do they state what grade of clear they got? I was never fond of that mission but I remember that you could skip a lot of enemies if you wanted to clear it in a few minutes.

Umberger

Apr 2, 2008, 09:04 PM

On 2008-04-02 19:00, Dein wrote:[...]and didn't know Agito Repca had a SE so now I'm curious about what it is.

It doesn't.

Dein

Apr 2, 2008, 09:24 PM

On 2008-04-02 19:04, Umberger wrote:

On 2008-04-02 19:00, Dein wrote:[...]and didn't know Agito Repca had a SE so now I'm curious about what it is.

It doesn't.

Rofl, I see now what I misread. Ah well, reading comprehension ftw. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

FOnewearl-Lina

Apr 2, 2008, 09:27 PM

On 2008-04-02 19:00, Dein wrote:
I had forgotten about Sweet Death having sleep and didn't know Agito Repca had a SE so now I'm curious about what it is.
No no, jealousy is a real life SE, not an in game SE.

Also, I've seen pics of people doing TA on the White Beast w/e and clearing in 5 mins on S but do they state what grade of clear they got? I was never fond of that mission but I remember that you could skip a lot of enemies if you wanted to clear it in a few minutes.
You basically skip all the side rooms and end up with a B-A grade clear. Of course ppl doing them will even waste their time fishing for a good map layout so they can skip as much as possible.

XDeathX

Apr 2, 2008, 10:21 PM

On 2008-04-02 13:05, XDeathX wrote:

On 2008-04-02 07:30, amtalx wrote:

On 2008-04-01 23:02, bLOODSAW wrote:
oh god jabroga's leveling rate past 40 is terribly dissapointing....

Expecting more hax from Jabroga is a bit greedy don't you think? I would gladly accept a few less points per hit for a turbo button, which is the only real downside to Jabroga to begin with.

You act as if this game was made by a different group of developers. Since when do PAs have terrible leveling rates. Since when do event drops not be affected by the games increased drop rate (Love Inferno). Since when does anything change in the game?

I expected Jabroga to be as powerful as the FFs Jabroga if not more powerful because ITS SEGA!

So what does greed have to do with anything especially since this is not the old PSU when things were hard and unexpected. Youre just letting SEGA walk all over you by accepting everything they throw at ya and when they do the unexpected, people are just greedy? Well, if they are, blame SEGA. When you are given everything on a silver platter, what do ye expect. Its not greed, its SEGA!

Zorafim

Apr 2, 2008, 10:28 PM

Do you want someone to respond to that, or...?

XDeathX

Apr 2, 2008, 11:01 PM

Kamica

Apr 2, 2008, 11:24 PM

On 2008-04-02 20:28, Zorafim wrote:
Do you want someone to respond to that, or...?

I remember when the guy quoted himself in the maximum attack G topicfive times. I finally decided to request a mod to make him stop XD

XDeathX

Apr 2, 2008, 11:35 PM

On 2008-04-02 21:24, Kamica wrote:

On 2008-04-02 20:28, Zorafim wrote:
Do you want someone to respond to that, or...?

I remember when the guy quoted himself in the maximum attack G topic. I finally decided to request a mod to make him stop XD

And he did nothing so you wasted your time and thanks for not answering my question in that thread.

[ This Message was edited by: XDeathX on 2008-04-02 21:36 ]

cheapgunner

Apr 3, 2008, 12:16 AM

On 2008-04-02 21:01, XDeathX wrote:

On 2008-04-02 15:28, FOnewearl-Lina wrote:

On 2008-04-02 11:51, Dein wrote:
So if I stop thinking then the problems with FM will just go away? This statement is making my brain hurt trying to make any sense out of it.
That's cause you're still thinking too hard; Whining about loss of Base ATP and low stat gains past PA40 when your weapon and arm unit should be making up just about half of your total ATP, it's perfectly balanced the way it is.
If you're that worried about the damage you do, get yourself a 50% axe and a repca, grind them up to 10, and you're set. Open with Jabroga and close with TBreak and you'll still be killing faster than a fF, spam Tornado Dance on long desolate maps and you'll be halfway across the map before anyone can even hope to catch up.

No its not balance, its disgraceful and an insult to Jabroga. 10% difference is nothing compared to its usual increase and not worth trying to get to 50.

Plz just STFU XDeathX. Ungrateful ppl like you need to go play some pokemon game or something. I can't believe your whining when ST gives you fighters some of the most broken pa's in the game like jabroga, majurra and AD and still find room to complain. A 10% difference might mean scrap to you, but to someone of good eyes, it is enough of a difference to max out jabroga anyways. I'm a gunner, so I know the value of maxing out pa's that have an overall small gain %.

Dein

Apr 3, 2008, 02:03 AM

On 2008-04-02 22:16, cheapgunner wrote:
Plz just STFU XDeathX. Ungrateful ppl like you need to go play some pokemon game or something. I can't believe your whining when ST gives you fighters some of the most broken pa's in the game like jabroga, majurra and AD and still find room to complain. A 10% difference might mean scrap to you, but to someone of good eyes, it is enough of a difference to max out jabroga anyways. I'm a gunner, so I know the value of maxing out pa's that have an overall small gain %.

While I agree the guy did a lot of unneeded quotes of his post he's right that 10% alone doesn't justify what Fighmaster has to sacrifice to gain it.

Either way, I'm hoping that there are some changes to the master classes in the near future. Guess we'll see in a month or so if anything happens, at least I hope we'll see something that soon.

Arika

Apr 3, 2008, 02:16 AM

I think they will have a Twin-master that capable to use : twin saber twin dagger twin claw and knuckle.

FOnewearl-Lina

Apr 3, 2008, 05:44 AM

On 2008-04-03 00:16, Arika wrote:
I think they will have a Twin-master that capable to use : twin saber twin dagger twin claw and knuckle.

Acromaster maybe? btw stop stalking me just to spy on my friends, it's not very polite... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

icewyrm

Apr 3, 2008, 06:04 AM

On 2008-04-03 00:03, Dein wrote:
While I agree the guy did a lot of unneeded quotes of his post he's right that 10% alone doesn't justify what Fighmaster has to sacrifice to gain it.

It's worth it for the speed alone, let alone the increase in PA cap.

XDeathX

Apr 3, 2008, 08:14 AM

On 2008-04-02 22:16, cheapgunner wrote:

On 2008-04-02 21:01, XDeathX wrote:

On 2008-04-02 15:28, FOnewearl-Lina wrote:

On 2008-04-02 11:51, Dein wrote:
So if I stop thinking then the problems with FM will just go away? This statement is making my brain hurt trying to make any sense out of it.
That's cause you're still thinking too hard; Whining about loss of Base ATP and low stat gains past PA40 when your weapon and arm unit should be making up just about half of your total ATP, it's perfectly balanced the way it is.
If you're that worried about the damage you do, get yourself a 50% axe and a repca, grind them up to 10, and you're set. Open with Jabroga and close with TBreak and you'll still be killing faster than a fF, spam Tornado Dance on long desolate maps and you'll be halfway across the map before anyone can even hope to catch up.

No its not balance, its disgraceful and an insult to Jabroga. 10% difference is nothing compared to its usual increase and not worth trying to get to 50.

Plz just STFU XDeathX. Ungrateful ppl like you need to go play some pokemon game or something. I can't believe your whining when ST gives you fighters some of the most broken pa's in the game like jabroga, majurra and AD and still find room to complain. A 10% difference might mean scrap to you, but to someone of good eyes, it is enough of a difference to max out jabroga anyways. I'm a gunner, so I know the value of maxing out pa's that have an overall small gain %.

no you STFU, youre the only clown here that accept this BS. You go through 10 levels of this thing and gain only 10% instead of the normal %. And I did not mention the other PAs. You need to shuttup and stop letting SEGA use you as a doormat. Your accepting whatever thy throw at you. So stop bitching and whining about my opinion and accept the fact that they screwed Jabroga.

TheFonz

Apr 3, 2008, 08:27 AM

On 2008-04-03 06:14, XDeathX wrote:

no you STFU, youre the only clown here that accept this BS. You go through 10 levels of this thing and gain only 10% instead of the normal %. And I did not mention the other PAs. You need to shuttup and stop letting SEGA use you as a doormat. Your accepting whatever thy throw at you. So stop bitching and whining about my opinion and accept the fact that they screwed Jabroga.

I've got this real crazy idea where you stop crying and wait patiently until you actually experience the class for yourself and make judgements thereafter. By all means, theorise FM's but don't start claiming the end of the world as a fact without experiencing the full story...

Reply:

On 2008-04-03 08:07, XDeathX wrote:

I didn't even say anyrhing about FM. What FM have to do with this? This is about Jabroga, so go cry to someone else.

Jesus Christ you're a fool. Fighmaster is the only class to have 41+ Jabroga - it has everything to do with FM.

[ This Message was edited by: TheFonz on 2008-04-04 06:38 ]

daniel_drago

Apr 3, 2008, 08:31 AM

On 2008-04-03 06:14, XDeathX wrote:

On 2008-04-02 22:16, cheapgunner wrote:

On 2008-04-02 21:01, XDeathX wrote:

On 2008-04-02 15:28, FOnewearl-Lina wrote:

On 2008-04-02 11:51, Dein wrote:
So if I stop thinking then the problems with FM will just go away? This statement is making my brain hurt trying to make any sense out of it.
That's cause you're still thinking too hard; Whining about loss of Base ATP and low stat gains past PA40 when your weapon and arm unit should be making up just about half of your total ATP, it's perfectly balanced the way it is.
If you're that worried about the damage you do, get yourself a 50% axe and a repca, grind them up to 10, and you're set. Open with Jabroga and close with TBreak and you'll still be killing faster than a fF, spam Tornado Dance on long desolate maps and you'll be halfway across the map before anyone can even hope to catch up.

No its not balance, its disgraceful and an insult to Jabroga. 10% difference is nothing compared to its usual increase and not worth trying to get to 50.

Plz just STFU XDeathX. Ungrateful ppl like you need to go play some pokemon game or something. I can't believe your whining when ST gives you fighters some of the most broken pa's in the game like jabroga, majurra and AD and still find room to complain. A 10% difference might mean scrap to you, but to someone of good eyes, it is enough of a difference to max out jabroga anyways. I'm a gunner, so I know the value of maxing out pa's that have an overall small gain %.

no you STFU, youre the only clown here that accept this BS. You go through 10 levels of this thing and gain only 10% instead of the normal %. And I did not mention the other PAs. You need to shuttup and stop letting SEGA use you as a doormat. Your accepting whatever thy throw at you. So stop bitching and whining about my opinion and accept the fact that they screwed Jabroga.

awww man im gona have so much fun flamin ur ass.
Right well where to start.

~no you STFU, youre the only clown here that accept this BS - No i accept the it as well you want to know why? I've stated this somewhere most liekly in this thread. SEGA/ST MADE THE GAME they do what THEY want accept this fact and move on.

~You go through 10 levels of this thing and gain only 10% instead of the normal % - Jabroga is damaing enough as it is one reason i can seem them not continuing it and have what 9% per level would be because Boma durenga would become a wee bit under powered for wht its worth

~And I did not mention the other PAs - no one said you did he's just backing up his comment with undeniable truth.

~You need to shuttup and stop letting SEGA use you as a doormat. Your accepting whatever thy throw at you - YES you know why he accepts it because he most likely undertsands that the developers choose what happens NOT US!

~So stop bitching and whining about my opinion and accept the fact that they screwed Jabroga - HAHAHAHAHAH ...NO lol I like to whine and bitch about people opinions its so much fun

And with that good day I might go back to my college work now, or possibly not.

YEY FOR TROLLING.

chu-chu-chu

Apr 3, 2008, 08:35 AM

i don't liek how sega makes us make trade-offs for things. it wuld be ALOT better i someothing was waaaay better in everyway, you know!

>.>

daniel_drago

Apr 3, 2008, 08:39 AM

On 2008-04-03 06:35, chu-chu-chu wrote:
i don't liek how sega makes us make trade-offs for things. it wuld be ALOT better i someothing was waaaay better in everyway, you know!

>.>

yes it would be however there trying to keep these classes from amking everything else obsolete.

If masterclasses became 'God' then ST/sega might asell remove the rest of the classes and just let you start off as a masterclass and remove all c-a rank weapons from the game or but them as S isntead....see why its would be a very silly thing to do making them 'God'

panzer_unit

Apr 3, 2008, 08:53 AM

On 2008-04-02 19:00, Dein wrote:
What I'm arguing is that as a FM, if you use an attack boosting unit you've got to deal with the extra PP you spend when you're attacking and that 30% extra PP cost can add up fast if you don't pace yourself, basically slowing down the biggest source of a fighter's damage. Meanwhile, a fF can use their PAs more often without needing to resort to normal attacks to refill their PP while using the same attack boosting units. I really feel that right now in a tough mission a FM will have a harder time than a fF and even a FI.

... I agree but I think that's appropriate for Master-type jobs; they're supposed to work in a team to cover their limitations, one of which is energy efficiency.

My Fortefighter (w/ skill) save can carry a stack of charges and just enough weapons to fill the palette, it'll solo any mission using PA's really hard without supply problems. With 5 more people on the team doing almost as much damage, it's not an advantage at all. EVERYONE is spamming their best attacks nonstop without problems.

XDeathX

Apr 3, 2008, 10:07 AM

On 2008-04-03 06:27, TheFonz wrote:

On 2008-04-03 06:14, XDeathX wrote:

no you STFU, youre the only clown here that accept this BS. You go through 10 levels of this thing and gain only 10% instead of the normal %. And I did not mention the other PAs. You need to shuttup and stop letting SEGA use you as a doormat. Your accepting whatever thy throw at you. So stop bitching and whining about my opinion and accept the fact that they screwed Jabroga.

I've got this real crazy idea where you stop crying and wait patiently until you actually experience the class for yourself and make judgements thereafter. By all means, theorise FM's but don't start claiming the end of the world as a fact without experiencing the full story...

I didn't even say anyrhing about FM. What FM have to do with this? This is about Jabroga, so go cry to someone else.

[ This Message was edited by: XDeathX on 2008-04-03 08:08 ]

XDeathX

Apr 3, 2008, 10:10 AM

On 2008-04-03 06:31, daniel_drago wrote:

On 2008-04-03 06:14, XDeathX wrote:

On 2008-04-02 22:16, cheapgunner wrote:

On 2008-04-02 21:01, XDeathX wrote:

On 2008-04-02 15:28, FOnewearl-Lina wrote:

On 2008-04-02 11:51, Dein wrote:
So if I stop thinking then the problems with FM will just go away? This statement is making my brain hurt trying to make any sense out of it.
That's cause you're still thinking too hard; Whining about loss of Base ATP and low stat gains past PA40 when your weapon and arm unit should be making up just about half of your total ATP, it's perfectly balanced the way it is.
If you're that worried about the damage you do, get yourself a 50% axe and a repca, grind them up to 10, and you're set. Open with Jabroga and close with TBreak and you'll still be killing faster than a fF, spam Tornado Dance on long desolate maps and you'll be halfway across the map before anyone can even hope to catch up.

No its not balance, its disgraceful and an insult to Jabroga. 10% difference is nothing compared to its usual increase and not worth trying to get to 50.

Plz just STFU XDeathX. Ungrateful ppl like you need to go play some pokemon game or something. I can't believe your whining when ST gives you fighters some of the most broken pa's in the game like jabroga, majurra and AD and still find room to complain. A 10% difference might mean scrap to you, but to someone of good eyes, it is enough of a difference to max out jabroga anyways. I'm a gunner, so I know the value of maxing out pa's that have an overall small gain %.

no you STFU, youre the only clown here that accept this BS. You go through 10 levels of this thing and gain only 10% instead of the normal %. And I did not mention the other PAs. You need to shuttup and stop letting SEGA use you as a doormat. Your accepting whatever thy throw at you. So stop bitching and whining about my opinion and accept the fact that they screwed Jabroga.

awww man im gona have so much fun flamin ur ass.
Right well where to start.

~no you STFU, youre the only clown here that accept this BS - No i accept the it as well you want to know why? I've stated this somewhere most liekly in this thread. SEGA/ST MADE THE GAME they do what THEY want accept this fact and move on.

~You go through 10 levels of this thing and gain only 10% instead of the normal % - Jabroga is damaing enough as it is one reason i can seem them not continuing it and have what 9% per level would be because Boma durenga would become a wee bit under powered for wht its worth

~And I did not mention the other PAs - no one said you did he's just backing up his comment with undeniable truth.

~You need to shuttup and stop letting SEGA use you as a doormat. Your accepting whatever thy throw at you - YES you know why he accepts it because he most likely undertsands that the developers choose what happens NOT US!

~So stop bitching and whining about my opinion and accept the fact that they screwed Jabroga - HAHAHAHAHAH ...NO lol I like to whine and bitch about people opinions its so much fun

And with that good day I might go back to my college work now, or possibly not.

YEY FOR TROLLING.

You call that a flame? That was a joke. I needed the laugh anyway. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

daniel_drago

Apr 3, 2008, 10:39 AM

On 2008-04-03 08:10, XDeathX wrote:

On 2008-04-03 06:31, daniel_drago wrote:

On 2008-04-03 06:14, XDeathX wrote:

On 2008-04-02 22:16, cheapgunner wrote:

On 2008-04-02 21:01, XDeathX wrote:

On 2008-04-02 15:28, FOnewearl-Lina wrote:

On 2008-04-02 11:51, Dein wrote:
So if I stop thinking then the problems with FM will just go away? This statement is making my brain hurt trying to make any sense out of it.
That's cause you're still thinking too hard; Whining about loss of Base ATP and low stat gains past PA40 when your weapon and arm unit should be making up just about half of your total ATP, it's perfectly balanced the way it is.
If you're that worried about the damage you do, get yourself a 50% axe and a repca, grind them up to 10, and you're set. Open with Jabroga and close with TBreak and you'll still be killing faster than a fF, spam Tornado Dance on long desolate maps and you'll be halfway across the map before anyone can even hope to catch up.

No its not balance, its disgraceful and an insult to Jabroga. 10% difference is nothing compared to its usual increase and not worth trying to get to 50.

Plz just STFU XDeathX. Ungrateful ppl like you need to go play some pokemon game or something. I can't believe your whining when ST gives you fighters some of the most broken pa's in the game like jabroga, majurra and AD and still find room to complain. A 10% difference might mean scrap to you, but to someone of good eyes, it is enough of a difference to max out jabroga anyways. I'm a gunner, so I know the value of maxing out pa's that have an overall small gain %.

no you STFU, youre the only clown here that accept this BS. You go through 10 levels of this thing and gain only 10% instead of the normal %. And I did not mention the other PAs. You need to shuttup and stop letting SEGA use you as a doormat. Your accepting whatever thy throw at you. So stop bitching and whining about my opinion and accept the fact that they screwed Jabroga.

awww man im gona have so much fun flamin ur ass.
Right well where to start.

~no you STFU, youre the only clown here that accept this BS - No i accept the it as well you want to know why? I've stated this somewhere most liekly in this thread. SEGA/ST MADE THE GAME they do what THEY want accept this fact and move on.

~You go through 10 levels of this thing and gain only 10% instead of the normal % - Jabroga is damaing enough as it is one reason i can seem them not continuing it and have what 9% per level would be because Boma durenga would become a wee bit under powered for wht its worth

~And I did not mention the other PAs - no one said you did he's just backing up his comment with undeniable truth.

~You need to shuttup and stop letting SEGA use you as a doormat. Your accepting whatever thy throw at you - YES you know why he accepts it because he most likely undertsands that the developers choose what happens NOT US!

~So stop bitching and whining about my opinion and accept the fact that they screwed Jabroga - HAHAHAHAHAH ...NO lol I like to whine and bitch about people opinions its so much fun

And with that good day I might go back to my college work now, or possibly not.

YEY FOR TROLLING.

You call that a flame? That was a joke. I needed the laugh anyway. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

P.s. noticed how im stalkin you on the forums. Good day.

panzer_unit

Apr 3, 2008, 12:20 PM

On 2008-04-03 08:39, daniel_drago wrote:

On 2008-04-03 08:10, XDeathX wrote:

On 2008-04-03 06:31, daniel_drago wrote:

On 2008-04-03 06:14, XDeathX wrote:

On 2008-04-02 22:16, cheapgunner wrote:

On 2008-04-02 21:01, XDeathX wrote:

On 2008-04-02 15:28, FOnewearl-Lina wrote:

On 2008-04-02 11:51, Dein wrote:
So if I stop thinking then the problems with FM will just go away? This statement is making my brain hurt trying to make any sense out of it.
That's cause you're still thinking too hard; Whining about loss of Base ATP and low stat gains past PA40 when your weapon and arm unit should be making up just about half of your total ATP, it's perfectly balanced the way it is.
If you're that worried about the damage you do, get yourself a 50% axe and a repca, grind them up to 10, and you're set. Open with Jabroga and close with TBreak and you'll still be killing faster than a fF, spam Tornado Dance on long desolate maps and you'll be halfway across the map before anyone can even hope to catch up.

No its not balance, its disgraceful and an insult to Jabroga. 10% difference is nothing compared to its usual increase and not worth trying to get to 50.

Plz just STFU XDeathX. Ungrateful ppl like you need to go play some pokemon game or something. I can't believe your whining when ST gives you fighters some of the most broken pa's in the game like jabroga, majurra and AD and still find room to complain. A 10% difference might mean scrap to you, but to someone of good eyes, it is enough of a difference to max out jabroga anyways. I'm a gunner, so I know the value of maxing out pa's that have an overall small gain %.

no you STFU, youre the only clown here that accept this BS. You go through 10 levels of this thing and gain only 10% instead of the normal %. And I did not mention the other PAs. You need to shuttup and stop letting SEGA use you as a doormat. Your accepting whatever thy throw at you. So stop bitching and whining about my opinion and accept the fact that they screwed Jabroga.

awww man im gona have so much fun flamin ur ass.
Right well where to start.

~no you STFU, youre the only clown here that accept this BS - No i accept the it as well you want to know why? I've stated this somewhere most liekly in this thread. SEGA/ST MADE THE GAME they do what THEY want accept this fact and move on.

~You go through 10 levels of this thing and gain only 10% instead of the normal % - Jabroga is damaing enough as it is one reason i can seem them not continuing it and have what 9% per level would be because Boma durenga would become a wee bit under powered for wht its worth

~And I did not mention the other PAs - no one said you did he's just backing up his comment with undeniable truth.

~You need to shuttup and stop letting SEGA use you as a doormat. Your accepting whatever thy throw at you - YES you know why he accepts it because he most likely undertsands that the developers choose what happens NOT US!

~So stop bitching and whining about my opinion and accept the fact that they screwed Jabroga - HAHAHAHAHAH ...NO lol I like to whine and bitch about people opinions its so much fun

And with that good day I might go back to my college work now, or possibly not.

YEY FOR TROLLING.

You call that a flame? That was a joke. I needed the laugh anyway. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

P.s. noticed how im stalkin you on the forums. Good day.

get a room

daniel_drago

Apr 3, 2008, 12:25 PM

On 2008-04-03 10:20, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2008-04-03 08:39, daniel_drago wrote:

On 2008-04-03 08:10, XDeathX wrote:

On 2008-04-03 06:31, daniel_drago wrote:

On 2008-04-03 06:14, XDeathX wrote:

On 2008-04-02 22:16, cheapgunner wrote:

On 2008-04-02 21:01, XDeathX wrote:

On 2008-04-02 15:28, FOnewearl-Lina wrote:

On 2008-04-02 11:51, Dein wrote:
So if I stop thinking then the problems with FM will just go away? This statement is making my brain hurt trying to make any sense out of it.
That's cause you're still thinking too hard; Whining about loss of Base ATP and low stat gains past PA40 when your weapon and arm unit should be making up just about half of your total ATP, it's perfectly balanced the way it is.
If you're that worried about the damage you do, get yourself a 50% axe and a repca, grind them up to 10, and you're set. Open with Jabroga and close with TBreak and you'll still be killing faster than a fF, spam Tornado Dance on long desolate maps and you'll be halfway across the map before anyone can even hope to catch up.

No its not balance, its disgraceful and an insult to Jabroga. 10% difference is nothing compared to its usual increase and not worth trying to get to 50.

Plz just STFU XDeathX. Ungrateful ppl like you need to go play some pokemon game or something. I can't believe your whining when ST gives you fighters some of the most broken pa's in the game like jabroga, majurra and AD and still find room to complain. A 10% difference might mean scrap to you, but to someone of good eyes, it is enough of a difference to max out jabroga anyways. I'm a gunner, so I know the value of maxing out pa's that have an overall small gain %.

no you STFU, youre the only clown here that accept this BS. You go through 10 levels of this thing and gain only 10% instead of the normal %. And I did not mention the other PAs. You need to shuttup and stop letting SEGA use you as a doormat. Your accepting whatever thy throw at you. So stop bitching and whining about my opinion and accept the fact that they screwed Jabroga.

awww man im gona have so much fun flamin ur ass.
Right well where to start.

~no you STFU, youre the only clown here that accept this BS - No i accept the it as well you want to know why? I've stated this somewhere most liekly in this thread. SEGA/ST MADE THE GAME they do what THEY want accept this fact and move on.

~You go through 10 levels of this thing and gain only 10% instead of the normal % - Jabroga is damaing enough as it is one reason i can seem them not continuing it and have what 9% per level would be because Boma durenga would become a wee bit under powered for wht its worth

~And I did not mention the other PAs - no one said you did he's just backing up his comment with undeniable truth.

~You need to shuttup and stop letting SEGA use you as a doormat. Your accepting whatever thy throw at you - YES you know why he accepts it because he most likely undertsands that the developers choose what happens NOT US!

~So stop bitching and whining about my opinion and accept the fact that they screwed Jabroga - HAHAHAHAHAH ...NO lol I like to whine and bitch about people opinions its so much fun

And with that good day I might go back to my college work now, or possibly not.

YEY FOR TROLLING.

You call that a flame? That was a joke. I needed the laugh anyway. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

P.s. noticed how im stalkin you on the forums. Good day.

get a room

Panzer_unit i love you I've not seen a post from you in a long time http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif oh and no i do not wish to share a room with him.

Zorafim

Apr 3, 2008, 02:57 PM

On 2008-04-03 10:25, daniel_drago wrote:

On 2008-04-03 10:20, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2008-04-03 08:39, daniel_drago wrote:

On 2008-04-03 08:10, XDeathX wrote:

On 2008-04-03 06:31, daniel_drago wrote:

On 2008-04-03 06:14, XDeathX wrote:

On 2008-04-02 22:16, cheapgunner wrote:

On 2008-04-02 21:01, XDeathX wrote:

On 2008-04-02 15:28, FOnewearl-Lina wrote:

On 2008-04-02 11:51, Dein wrote:
So if I stop thinking then the problems with FM will just go away? This statement is making my brain hurt trying to make any sense out of it.
That's cause you're still thinking too hard; Whining about loss of Base ATP and low stat gains past PA40 when your weapon and arm unit should be making up just about half of your total ATP, it's perfectly balanced the way it is.
If you're that worried about the damage you do, get yourself a 50% axe and a repca, grind them up to 10, and you're set. Open with Jabroga and close with TBreak and you'll still be killing faster than a fF, spam Tornado Dance on long desolate maps and you'll be halfway across the map before anyone can even hope to catch up.

No its not balance, its disgraceful and an insult to Jabroga. 10% difference is nothing compared to its usual increase and not worth trying to get to 50.

Plz just STFU XDeathX. Ungrateful ppl like you need to go play some pokemon game or something. I can't believe your whining when ST gives you fighters some of the most broken pa's in the game like jabroga, majurra and AD and still find room to complain. A 10% difference might mean scrap to you, but to someone of good eyes, it is enough of a difference to max out jabroga anyways. I'm a gunner, so I know the value of maxing out pa's that have an overall small gain %.

no you STFU, youre the only clown here that accept this BS. You go through 10 levels of this thing and gain only 10% instead of the normal %. And I did not mention the other PAs. You need to shuttup and stop letting SEGA use you as a doormat. Your accepting whatever thy throw at you. So stop bitching and whining about my opinion and accept the fact that they screwed Jabroga.

awww man im gona have so much fun flamin ur ass.
Right well where to start.

~no you STFU, youre the only clown here that accept this BS - No i accept the it as well you want to know why? I've stated this somewhere most liekly in this thread. SEGA/ST MADE THE GAME they do what THEY want accept this fact and move on.

~You go through 10 levels of this thing and gain only 10% instead of the normal % - Jabroga is damaing enough as it is one reason i can seem them not continuing it and have what 9% per level would be because Boma durenga would become a wee bit under powered for wht its worth

~And I did not mention the other PAs - no one said you did he's just backing up his comment with undeniable truth.

~You need to shuttup and stop letting SEGA use you as a doormat. Your accepting whatever thy throw at you - YES you know why he accepts it because he most likely undertsands that the developers choose what happens NOT US!

~So stop bitching and whining about my opinion and accept the fact that they screwed Jabroga - HAHAHAHAHAH ...NO lol I like to whine and bitch about people opinions its so much fun

And with that good day I might go back to my college work now, or possibly not.

YEY FOR TROLLING.

You call that a flame? That was a joke. I needed the laugh anyway. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

P.s. noticed how im stalkin you on the forums. Good day.

get a room

Panzer_unit i love you I've not seen a post from you in a long time http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif oh and no i do not wish to share a room with him.

I can make unnecesarily large quotes too. Am I cool now?

chu-chu-chu

Apr 3, 2008, 02:58 PM

Yes!

ZeldaSerenade

Apr 3, 2008, 03:12 PM

My main concern is, what are GunMasters going to do against bosses without GLs? I guess just pop them in the head with rifles.

Zorafim

Apr 3, 2008, 03:15 PM

http://www.mithra.to/~psu/uploader/src/psu13647.jpg

Close enough? Rifles work too.

Zorak000

Apr 3, 2008, 03:17 PM

ORLY? 8 shots? hmmm... interesting...

RemiusTA

Apr 3, 2008, 03:23 PM

On 2008-04-01 22:05, Dein wrote:
Alright, the JP wiki finally got some info up about several striking PAs past lvl 40, this'll only be for the initial combo for some of these skills as it takes some time for them to figure out the atp modifiers for the other parts of some PAs. Anyway, I'll start with some of the more used PAs:

Dus Majarra lvl 41-50: Atp 186%~195% Acc 83%~92%
Absolute Dance 41-50: Atp 431%~440% Acc 91%~100%
Tornado Dance 41-50: Atp 262%~280% Acc 77%~95% The PP usage (46 for FM) doesn't go up for TD past 40.
Gravity Break 41-50: Atp 422%~440% Acc 81%~90%
Ank Jabroga 41-50: Atp 411%~420% Acc 86%~95% The PP usage for FM actually goes down to 65 past 40 but...

Every other PA is keeping their normal growth trends for the first combo at least, but I can't honestly say I've seen any large, or noticeable, growths in the other parts of the combos for Absolute Dance or Dus Majarra and they're both lvl 45 at least for me now. I honestly expected that Jabroga though would continue its trend of ATP growth ...but yay more acc? This info really hurts any argument that FM can out damage fF in my eyes and I was honestly beginning to think that with a little work a FM could outpace a fF if the PAs had good growth past 40. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

I...really dont see why. FM already can outdamage Ff.

And besides, some of you people need to learn the difference between having higher Damage NUMBERS and just plain outdamaging something.

For instance, a Fortetecher who does 2300 damage on 4 targets deals less damage than a Masterforce who does 2000 on 5 targets. Likewise, a Fortefighter who does a total of 10k damage in six seconds is completely outdamaged by a Fighmaster who can do 9.5k in three.

this applies to pretty much all of the master classes.

I could have SWORN we cleared this bullshit up pages and pages ago, why the hell are people still complaining and nitpicking at things that make no difference?

Jarboga doesnt need a 10% increase at 41+ when it automatically gets a retarded speed boost that would make a lv 30 Jarboga stand up to a lv40 one. You cant use 41+ jarbroken on a Ff, so what on earth are we arguing about?

Same goes with Absolute Dance and the other PAs. Just take it as the 41+ boost being almost a 400% increase in speed and be quiet about it already...

Zorafim

Apr 3, 2008, 03:37 PM

The 10%+ increase in accuracy is actually kind of interesting, actually. Plus the lowering of PP cost for some PAs can help as well.

chicken105

Apr 3, 2008, 05:07 PM

DPS is FM > FF. If you have good weapons. Speed increase ftw. It's not all about BIG NUMBERS!

bLOODSAW

Apr 3, 2008, 05:25 PM

whoah havent looked at the forums in a few days i see a lot has went on in this thread since i last posted... O.O

I was thinking to myself at work today (my job's kinda boring... it involves taxes so if that helps give you an idea >.>) about jabroga only getting 9% total from 41 to 50. I previously stated that i found this "dissapointing". I must say from what i was thinking today, i changed my mind. Not only do i not care about that anymore, but i thought to myself "Uh... 9% boost is meh... but that speed boost is gonna make the dps go sky high with this pa anyway"

So in conlusion, i formally say that i essentially have completely changed my mind about jabroga on fighmasters. Shit, as far as im concerned, they could have made it so the accuracy goes up and NOT the attack power. I think my previous post (at least the part about FM jabroga) was a bit hasty and i wasnt taking the speed boost into consideration. As someone who made a human and vowed that i would max out every class, (and no im not leveling the basics to 20 as far as im concerned theyre maxed at 10 bc theyre stats dont go up again after that.) i will enjoy fighmaster greatly as well as the other 2 new classes no matter what the downsides are. Besides, jabroga for me will be limited to bosses once i level it proper as i find dugrega to be a lot more fun to use.

I found it humorous that what i was thinking about today ended up being essentially what RemiusTA just posted lol.

XDeathX

Apr 3, 2008, 06:35 PM

On 2008-04-03 13:23, RemiusTA wrote:

On 2008-04-01 22:05, Dein wrote:
Alright, the JP wiki finally got some info up about several striking PAs past lvl 40, this'll only be for the initial combo for some of these skills as it takes some time for them to figure out the atp modifiers for the other parts of some PAs. Anyway, I'll start with some of the more used PAs:

Dus Majarra lvl 41-50: Atp 186%~195% Acc 83%~92%
Absolute Dance 41-50: Atp 431%~440% Acc 91%~100%
Tornado Dance 41-50: Atp 262%~280% Acc 77%~95% The PP usage (46 for FM) doesn't go up for TD past 40.
Gravity Break 41-50: Atp 422%~440% Acc 81%~90%
Ank Jabroga 41-50: Atp 411%~420% Acc 86%~95% The PP usage for FM actually goes down to 65 past 40 but...

Every other PA is keeping their normal growth trends for the first combo at least, but I can't honestly say I've seen any large, or noticeable, growths in the other parts of the combos for Absolute Dance or Dus Majarra and they're both lvl 45 at least for me now. I honestly expected that Jabroga though would continue its trend of ATP growth ...but yay more acc? This info really hurts any argument that FM can out damage fF in my eyes and I was honestly beginning to think that with a little work a FM could outpace a fF if the PAs had good growth past 40. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

I...really dont see why. FM already can outdamage Ff.

And besides, some of you people need to learn the difference between having higher Damage NUMBERS and just plain outdamaging something.

For instance, a Fortetecher who does 2300 damage on 4 targets deals less damage than a Masterforce who does 2000 on 5 targets. Likewise, a Fortefighter who does a total of 10k damage in six seconds is completely outdamaged by a Fighmaster who can do 9.5k in three.

this applies to pretty much all of the master classes.

I could have SWORN we cleared this bullshit up pages and pages ago, why the hell are people still complaining and nitpicking at things that make no difference?

Jarboga doesnt need a 10% increase at 41+ when it automatically gets a retarded speed boost that would make a lv 30 Jarboga stand up to a lv40 one. You cant use 41+ jarbroken on a Ff, so what on earth are we arguing about?

Same goes with Absolute Dance and the other PAs. Just take it as the 41+ boost being almost a 400% increase in speed and be quiet about it already...

Its all abouthaving a sense of accomplishment and being nicely rewarded when having it at 50, not dmg. Right now its pointless so I do not give a shit about leveling it up that high.

[ This Message was edited by: XDeathX on 2008-04-03 16:39 ]

Shiro_Ryuu

Apr 3, 2008, 07:33 PM

LadyTails

Apr 3, 2008, 07:48 PM

awsome uber techs >.< yummy i guess

Dein

Apr 3, 2008, 08:18 PM

On 2008-04-03 13:23, RemiusTA wrote:
I...really dont see why. FM already can outdamage Ff.

And besides, some of you people need to learn the difference between having higher Damage NUMBERS and just plain outdamaging something.

For instance, a Fortetecher who does 2300 damage on 4 targets deals less damage than a Masterforce who does 2000 on 5 targets. Likewise, a Fortefighter who does a total of 10k damage in six seconds is completely outdamaged by a Fighmaster who can do 9.5k in three.

this applies to pretty much all of the master classes.

I could have SWORN we cleared this bullshit up pages and pages ago, why the hell are people still complaining and nitpicking at things that make no difference?

Jarboga doesnt need a 10% increase at 41+ when it automatically gets a retarded speed boost that would make a lv 30 Jarboga stand up to a lv40 one. You cant use 41+ jarbroken on a Ff, so what on earth are we arguing about?

Same goes with Absolute Dance and the other PAs. Just take it as the 41+ boost being almost a 400% increase in speed and be quiet about it already...

You didn't read my last argument did you? In a setting where it really mattered (like soloing or doing a low member run of a mission with tough higher level enemies) FM won't do as well as fF. The speed boost you keep bringing up is a mixed blessing when you consider the extra PP costs in this situation. A FM has to choose between gaining atp and dealing with the PP penalty, or using a skill save unit to allow them to use their skills more often while a fF doesn't have to make such a decision. Basically I'm arguing about the overall speed difference between these classes when it comes down to using PAs. A FM without a unit to reduce PP costs will use 50% more each PA use than a fF and that can really add up if they're using their skills often meaning a fF can use their PAs twice as often as a FM without having to resort to normal attacks to restore PP. Of course you can argue that a FM can spam Photon Charges, grind up S ranks, and bring a lot of extra weapons but those arguments can be applied to fF too.

In short, the speed bonus that FM enjoys doesn't mean they are overall completely faster than a fF due to the negatives FM has to overcome. Also, I know how good extra hits can be for damage but I was never arguing about MF. Though my brother used to complain that Ra- techs only hit 1 target on multi target enemies so I don't see that boost as terribly helpful unless you're dealing with a lot of large groups, unless they changed that recently.

icewyrm

Apr 3, 2008, 08:27 PM

If FM is worse than FF, than don't use it. Whats the problem?

[ This Message was edited by: icewyrm on 2008-04-03 18:27 ]

Dein

Apr 3, 2008, 09:20 PM

On 2008-04-03 18:27, icewyrm wrote:
If FM is worse than FF, than don't use it. Whats the problem?

[ This Message was edited by: icewyrm on 2008-04-03 18:27 ]

Considering the class needs lvl 10 fF and lvl 10 FI to unlock it's disappointing to see that it does so poorly. It feels more like a novelty class than anything right now and that's poor design on ST's part.

Shiro_Ryuu

Apr 3, 2008, 09:37 PM

Man, you guys have to realize that if Fighmaster had any more than it does now, it'd be broken. It's good the way it is.

The_Brimada

Apr 3, 2008, 09:51 PM

On 2008-04-02 16:13, Umberger wrote:

On 2008-04-02 15:41, chicken105 wrote:
well yea. like a color of the flashing star on 13*+ items right?

[spoiler-box]http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f369/Akukame/image00001556.jpg [/spoiler-box]

Credit for the pic goes to Itsuki-chan.

EDIT: Eh, on second thought I guess it is kinda more yellowish...goldish...I dunno. =p

Hmmm... seems the color of the PAs does indeed follow the pattern of the basic weapon types from PSO as one of my friends suspected http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

Dein

Apr 3, 2008, 10:24 PM

On 2008-04-03 19:37, Shiroryuu wrote:
Man, you guys have to realize that if Fighmaster had any more than it does now, it'd be broken. It's good the way it is.

...Right. Being restricted to one class of weapons completely defeats that argument.

Umberger

Apr 3, 2008, 10:32 PM

On 2008-04-03 19:20, Dein wrote:

Considering the class needs lvl 10 fF and lvl 10 FI to unlock it's disappointing to see that it does so poorly. It feels more like a novelty class than anything right now and that's poor design on ST's part.

Well, if the AotI beta last year is any indicator of things to come, maybe the master types will eventually get a level 30 cap? I remember there was a bug with Force that sent it to 30, and I think it makes sense that basic types would stop gaining at 10, advanced at 20, master at 30...at the lower levels of advanced, a capped basic type has higher "crucial" stats...maybe the same will go for advanced->master (to a more extreme degree)? Ah well, I can hope. =p

And if not, well at least Masterforces will have the speed boost and flashy PAs.

Dein

Apr 3, 2008, 10:50 PM

On 2008-04-03 20:32, Umberger wrote:

On 2008-04-03 19:20, Dein wrote:

Considering the class needs lvl 10 fF and lvl 10 FI to unlock it's disappointing to see that it does so poorly. It feels more like a novelty class than anything right now and that's poor design on ST's part.

Well, if the AotI beta last year is any indicator of things to come, maybe the master types will eventually get a level 30 cap? I remember there was a bug with Force that sent it to 30, and I think it makes sense that basic types would stop gaining at 10, advanced at 20, master at 30...at the lower levels of advanced, a capped basic type has higher "crucial" stats...maybe the same will go for advanced->master (to a more extreme degree)? Ah well, I can hope. =p

And if not, well at least Masterforces will have the speed boost and flashy PAs.

Yeah that might end up being the case. Right now though the master types gain less than 1% in their stats every type level, with a level or two having slightly higher growth here and there. Pics of the stat gains for hitting level 20 on these classes show a much higher gain though so ST could have lvl 20+ for the master types be extremely fast growth while the experts don't gain anything past 20. But chances are, the JP servers won't see a lvl 25 type cap for several more months at best... I'd much rather see some changes sooner rather than later if possible.

Kamica

Apr 4, 2008, 09:40 AM

Dein, you only see bad in the master classes because its the opposite of your interests. This was how I used to feel in regards to MasterForce. I now realize that MF can be good, but I will never play as one.

Why is FighMaster not relevant to your interests? Your gear is not good enough.
If your equipment is without strong elemental percents, then you won't be able to take advantage of the speed boost. The master classes are strictly for people who have the best of the best gear. No matter how you look at it, a person with 50% gear will NEVER clear rooms faster as a Fortefighter.

FighMaster takes damage too quickly? Again. The class is strictly for people who have top end gear. Wear armor with high elemental percents and you will soon find yourself taking little damage.

Have you tried tornadoing across rooms yet? That trick and the speed boosts should theoretically get you enough of a boost to take care of at least one spawn before the others arrive.

panzer_unit

Apr 4, 2008, 10:19 AM

On 2008-04-03 18:18, Dein wrote:
You didn't read my last argument did you? In a setting where it really mattered (like soloing or doing a low member run of a mission with tough higher level enemies) FM won't do as well as fF.

It's from the weapon restrictions and everything it seems the intention of master types is high performance teamwork... what they might or might not do solo is like offroading in an F1 race car. WTG if it works AT ALL.

Shiro_Ryuu

Apr 4, 2008, 10:25 AM

On 2008-04-03 20:24, Dein wrote:

On 2008-04-03 19:37, Shiroryuu wrote:
Man, you guys have to realize that if Fighmaster had any more than it does now, it'd be broken. It's good the way it is.

...Right. Being restricted to one class of weapons completely defeats that argument.

Well, it's a Master class, so what did you expect?

Dein

Apr 4, 2008, 12:51 PM

On 2008-04-04 07:40, Kamica wrote:
Dein, you only see bad in the master classes because its the opposite of your interests. This was how I used to feel in regards to MasterForce. I now realize that MF can be good, but I will never play as one.

Why is FighMaster not relevant to your interests? Your gear is not good enough.
If your equipment is without strong elemental percents, then you won't be able to take advantage of the speed boost. The master classes are strictly for people who have the best of the best gear. No matter how you look at it, a person with 50% gear will NEVER clear rooms faster as a Fortefighter.

FighMaster takes damage too quickly? Again. The class is strictly for people who have top end gear. Wear armor with high elemental percents and you will soon find yourself taking little damage.

Have you tried tornadoing across rooms yet? That trick and the speed boosts should theoretically get you enough of a boost to take care of at least one spawn before the others arrive.

...Do you understand what you're trying to argue? A fF can equip everything a FM can outside of Doublesabers so how can you honestly say the same 50% armors and weapons would benefit FM more than fF when FM has lower DEF, ATP, and so on.

It's from the weapon restrictions and everything it seems the intention of master types is high performance teamwork... what they might or might not do solo is like offroading in an F1 race car. WTG if it works AT ALL.

PSU doesn't really seem team focused though. Sure there are a few missions that require a group but this game doesn't have very defined roles aside from dealing damage and buff/heal. You won't really notice any downsides to these classes in a 4-6 person party but that still doesn't mean they're necessarily better than other classes either.

Well, it's a Master class, so what did you expect?
For it to live up to its name and at least be stronger than the classes that were required to unlock it.

Kamica

Apr 4, 2008, 01:20 PM

On 2008-04-04 10:51, Dein wrote:

On 2008-04-04 07:40, Kamica wrote:
Dein, you only see bad in the master classes because its the opposite of your interests. This was how I used to feel in regards to MasterForce. I now realize that MF can be good, but I will never play as one.

Why is FighMaster not relevant to your interests? Your gear is not good enough.
If your equipment is without strong elemental percents, then you won't be able to take advantage of the speed boost. The master classes are strictly for people who have the best of the best gear. No matter how you look at it, a person with 50% gear will NEVER clear rooms faster as a Fortefighter.

FighMaster takes damage too quickly? Again. The class is strictly for people who have top end gear. Wear armor with high elemental percents and you will soon find yourself taking little damage.

Have you tried tornadoing across rooms yet? That trick and the speed boosts should theoretically get you enough of a boost to take care of at least one spawn before the others arrive.

...Do you understand what you're trying to argue? A fF can equip everything a FM can outside of Doublesabers so how can you honestly say the same 50% armors and weapons would benefit FM more than fF when FM has lower DEF, ATP, and so on.

The speed boost from speeding across rooms

The speed boost from attacking

Armors and weapons will make the attacking/defending stat differences meaningless upon switching classes.

Basically, what it comes down to is that the stats in this game mean nothing. Therefore the boosts that FM gets are if anything, broken.

Seriously, go around and observe what other JP players are using. You will tend to see the average player as an expert classes. A person who has the high end equipment is the master class.

Lina and Midori could vouch on this pattern. It happens this way because it makes SENSE. I don't get why you are not seeing it yet.

[ This Message was edited by: Kamica on 2008-04-04 11:20 ]

Aries2384

Apr 4, 2008, 01:26 PM

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gifrooool: Master Force casting speeds... mmmmm....
:longer drooool: FM Axe and spear speeds.....laaaaaaaa

Dein

Apr 4, 2008, 02:01 PM

On 2008-04-04 11:20, Kamica wrote:
The speed boost from speeding across rooms

The speed boost from attacking

Armors and weapons will make the attacking/defending stat differences meaningless upon switching classes.

Basically, what it comes down to is that the stats in this game mean nothing. Therefore the boosts that FM gets are if anything, broken.

Seriously, go around and observe what other JP players are using. You will tend to see the average player as an expert classes. A person who has the high end equipment is the master class.

Lina and Midori could vouch on this pattern. It happens this way because it makes SENSE. I don't get why you are not seeing it yet.

[ This Message was edited by: Kamica on 2008-04-04 11:20 ]

I've already talked about the speed boost and what I think of it so reread some of my posts if you want to argue about that. As for the the argument about Tornado Dance you do realize that FI and fF have Slicers and ranged weapons to allow them to attack from a distance meaning they don't have to travel as far to be able to hit an enemy right? I've used TD on FM and it didn't really seem to be so fast that I could just get across a room so fast that no one could catch up to me.

I'll say it again since you don't seem to have read my last post. That same high end gear that a FM can use, aside from Doublesabers, a fF could use to a greater effect. As for the issue about stats not mattering I remember some people like Lina a few months ago were saying Fighgunner sucked compared to fF and the ATP difference was being used as one of their reasons. I guess stats don't matter when you're trying to justify these classes?

Kamica

Apr 4, 2008, 02:13 PM

I've already talked about the speed boost and what I think of it so reread some of my posts if you want to argue about that.

too lazy

for the the argument about Tornado Dance you do realize that FI and fF have Slicers and ranged weapons to allow them to attack from a distance meaning they don't have to travel as far to be able to hit an enemy right?

Slicers do not help empty hallways and required backtracking

I've used TD on FM and it didn't really seem to be so fast that I could just get across a room so fast that no one could catch up to me.

You're wrong

That same high end gear that a FM can use, aside from Doublesabers, a fF could use to a greater effect.

Explain how

As for the issue about stats not mattering I remember some people like Lina a few months ago were saying Fighgunner sucked compared to fF and the ATP difference was being used as one of their reasons. I guess stats don't matter when you're trying to justify these classes?

You can't seriously use a previous event as an example. The game is constantly changing. The PAs we use most, the weapons we use most, the classes we use most, and the missions we play most depend on how Sonic Team tweaks the game. Stats are a thing of the past. Get with the present.

[ This Message was edited by: Kamica on 2008-04-04 12:14 ]

Inazuma

Apr 4, 2008, 02:29 PM

ive played w/ a very skilled fighmaster before. he could travel twice as fast as everyone else b/c of tornado dance. when he got close enough to monsters he would start his attack w/ jarbroga, followed up w/ either spear or sword. by the time the rest of the party could even catch up to him, he had already killed some monsters or at least done some serious damage. i have never seen a melee player do as well as him before.

your entitled to your opinion dein, but i think you need to be looking at more than strictly base stats here. the 10 extra skills levels mite make up for the atp loss, but the speed pushes it much further. id estimate that the master types are around 30%-50% stronger overall than the fortes.

panzer_unit

Apr 4, 2008, 02:52 PM

On 2008-04-04 10:51, Dein wrote:

It's from the weapon restrictions and everything it seems the intention of master types is high performance teamwork... what they might or might not do solo is like offroading in an F1 race car. WTG if it works AT ALL.

PSU doesn't really seem team focused though. Sure there are a few missions that require a group but this game doesn't have very defined roles aside from dealing damage and buff/heal. You won't really notice any downsides to these classes in a 4-6 person party but that still doesn't mean they're necessarily better than other classes either.

With a team to cover any noticable down-sides, I'd say attacking 30% faster with the same equipment I'd use anyway seems significantly better to me. It would take a huge stat loss before that didn't work out to be a gain overall.

FOnewearl-Lina

Apr 4, 2008, 08:57 PM

On 2008-04-04 11:20, Kamica wrote:
Seriously, go around and observe what other JP players are using. You will tend to see the average player as an expert classes. A person who has the high end equipment is the master class.

Lina and Midori could vouch on this pattern. It happens this way because it makes SENSE. I don't get why you are not seeing it yet.

I don't get it either.

On 2008-04-04 12:29, Inazuma wrote:
ive played w/ a very skilled fighmaster before. he could travel twice as fast as everyone else b/c of tornado dance. when he got close enough to monsters he would start his attack w/ jarbroga, followed up w/ either spear or sword. by the time the rest of the party could even catch up to him, he had already killed some monsters or at least done some serious damage. i have never seen a melee player do as well as him before.

your entitled to your opinion dein, but i think you need to be looking at more than strictly base stats here. the 10 extra skills levels mite make up for the atp loss, but the speed pushes it much further. id estimate that the master types are around 30%-50% stronger overall than the fortes.

Basically what I said in my previous posts.