Best Melee photon arts for pure damage, for a Wartecher?

[DRO]

I just capped my majarra and im almost done with the knucles..think its called dus robado or something like that.....what other pa's cause the best damage?

[Cz]

twin claw - Rensan something where you hit one target and do massive damage. For that PA, you can buy at NPC's store. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_hamster.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cz on 2008-03-25 23:10 ]</font>

[Umberger]

Dus Robado is a great AoE PA. Ikk Hikk is pretty strong/good if you can deal with the speed, or lack thereof.

[Jakosifer]

Renzan Seidan-ga (Twin Claw 30k PA, kicks ass)

Spinning Strike (Very good for single targets while you need to have a left hand weapon, 50 frags)

Hikai Shuha-zan (The 1hand weapon version of Majarra, great move if you master how to control it, only 25 frags)

Vivi Danga (Wartechers/Acrotechers compliment to a Fortefighters/Protransers Angry Jabroni, great boss PA..Forgot how many frags)


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jakomay_07 on 2008-03-25 23:15 ]</font>

[DRO]

what weapon is the hikai shuha-zan for?
and for the twin claws, i have the one where you swim kinda like a dolphin...IMO it sucks....does the other one do a lot more damage?
I have Ikk hikk...I am lvling it now...I dont really like it...too slow...

[Starrz]

Bogga Zubba

[vfloresjr24]

Spinning Strike!!! Start drop kicking mofos for the hell of it. Have you dropped kicked a polty before? I have, its fun. =)

[EphekZ]

Fortefighter.

[Umberger]

On 2008-03-25 23:45, DRO wrote:
what weapon is the hikai shuha-zan for?
and for the twin claws, i have the one where you swim kinda like a dolphin...IMO it sucks....does the other one do a lot more damage?
I have Ikk hikk...I am lvling it now...I dont really like it...too slow...



Single dagger.

That PA isn't really meant for general use from what I've seen. Renzan however, is a very solid PA with some pretty nice damage.

Bogga Zubba is a great alternative.

[Germie]

The dolphin swim attack is actually really good when you learn how to aim it.. with the PA 28 and my Beast FF level 77 the last part hits for 4100+ W/ Megistaride

[CelestialBlade]

The dolphin one is a good PA, but damage-wise it cannot even hope to compete with Renzan. Tons of hits and the last hit has an ATP mod of well over 400%, plus it hits 3 hitboxes. One of the best, and most overlooked, PAs in the game.

[mll]

Try Hikai, the ultimate single dagger, just turn left or right at the end of the first combo if you want to use the second part. Renzan or Rensen for the twin claws are both good too.

[Zael]

Hikai Shuha-zan
Renzan Seiden-ga
Bogga Zubba

[th0rnz]

I have to go with Hikai Shuha-Zan being up near the top of the list too, and this is for my fighgunner.

I love using X-bow with lvl 21+ bullets along with a 30%+ element single dagger with hikai on it, total domination of everything.

[panzer_unit]

Ikk Hikk... the knuckle's Jabroga. More like 3 Jabrogas in a row, if anything lets you do crank through the PA for that long.

2x4 hits @ 300~400%
3x3 hits @ 300+%
4x2 hits @ 400+%

[Hrith]

On 2008-03-26 05:56, Typheros wrote:
The dolphin one is a good PA, but damage-wise it cannot even hope to compete with Renzan. Tons of hits and the last hit has an ATP mod of well over 400%, plus it hits 3 hitboxes. One of the best, and most overlooked, PAs in the game.You do realise Seidan's last hit is MUCH weaker than Chuei's or Senshou's? >_>

Seidan's last hit does 455% damage (Lv30 skill, since we're talking about Wartecher) to three targets, but because of the incredibly crappy range, you rarely hit three targets at all with that last hit.

Chuei's last hit does 520% damage to four targets, with better range than Seidan's last hit. So 65% more damage, one more target, more range, yeah, Seidan's last hit sure is great >_>

Senshou's last hit does 405% damage to two targets, three times, for a total of six hits. Senshou's last hit has the best range of all, since it's only two targets, it's very easy to achieve the maximum number of hits, and Senshou has by far the best ATA, which both twin claws and Wartecher atrociously need.


Next...
Renzan Seidan-ga = 11 hits
Bukuu Rensen-ga = 15 hits
Rensan Senshou-ga = 16 hits
Chuei Jitotsushin = 22 hits

Where did you get "tons of hits"? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

Renzan Seidan-ga is the worst twin claw PA by a large amount, only n00bs which have never used the other three properly still use Seidan.

Renzan Seidan-ga's redeeming aspect is that it deals good damage to one target if you only use the first part, but Bogga Robado does the same thing with the exact same damage, muuuuuuch more ATA and much more range.




The damage PAs for a Wartecher are Bogga Zubba, Dus Majarra, Hikai Shuha-zan, Ikk Hikk (although of very limited use), Vivi Danga (bosses), Assault Crush and Hishou Jinren-zan.
If you want damage, forget about anything else.

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-03-26 10:09, Hrith wrote:
Renzan Seidan-ga is the worst twin claw PA by a large amount, only n00bs which have never used the other three properly still use Seidan.

Renzan Seidan-ga's redeeming aspect is that it deals good damage to one target if you only use the first part, but Bogga Robado does the same thing with the exact same damage, muuuuuuch more ATA and much more range.


Renzan's among the best PA for pumping out damage to one target, and can quickly follow up with some high ATP% multi-target hits and crowd control... making it merely damaging, reliable, and useful in situations where it's not among the very best for damage output.

Don't get faked out by Bogga Robado, it sucks outside of the first move unless you're maybe standing on an exploding Freeze EX trap so there's some chance you get to the 3rd move without interruption or everything knocked out of range.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-03-26 10:47 ]</font>

[Germie]

Last one on Chuie Jitotsushin hits for 570% and 4 boxes the first 2 parts of it hit at 250%

[Hrith]

On 2008-03-26 10:43, panzer_unit wrote:
Renzan's among the best PA for pumping out damage to one target, and can quickly follow up with some high ATP% multi-target hits and crowd control... making it merely damaging, reliable, and useful in situations where it's not among the very best for damage output.

Don't get faked out by Bogga Robado, it sucks outside of the first move unless you're maybe standing on an exploding Freeze EX trap so there's some chance you get to the 3rd move without interruption or everything knocked out of range.No, no, no and no.

Do you even play melee classes?

Bogga Robado does the exact same thing, with much more range, much more ATA and a much more powerful last move.


Renzan Seidan-ga is just total crap, like Splendor Crush and Bogga Danga.

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-03-26 12:46, Hrith wrote:
No, no, no and no.

Do you even play melee classes?

Bogga Robado does the exact same thing, with much more range, much more ATA and a much more powerful last move.

Renzan Seidan-ga is just total crap, like Splendor Crush and Bogga Danga.

lol nice counter-argument... just keep telling the same fairytale until everyone gets tired of trying to set you straight and shuts up? It sometimes works for my son. It's a lot less pathetic coming from an eight-year-old tho.

Bogga Robado also does 4 hits to 1 target, but you dash forward once and after that it's immobile, you can't even turn. Renzan moves forward between every move and will continue to face your locked-on target the entire time. It's much easier to land full hits on a moving target.

... in both cases the initial move is the real value compared to other Photon Arts, but everything else being equal the PA who's follow-up attacks fail the least is the better of the two.
Bogga Robado's second move has a lower damage mod than the first, cranks out one no-effect punch and only gets around to the one with juggle after a long pause. Renzan has a quick 2-target launch to counter incoming attackers, and almost immediately follows that with knockdown on the second hit of the move to prevent victims from flying out of reach.

Bogga Robado's final move has a lot of damage potential, but it's preceeded by a juggle that knocks your original targets out of range, a long period of immobility so you can't get anything attacking anyone else, and worse yet the move packs knockback on every hit so even when it does connect it's often for only 2 hits before the target is blown out of range. Even Ikk Hikk is more reliable. Renzan's last attack isn't fantastic by any standards, but it's a hell of a lot better than that... the final attack will at least hit targets from the second move and it's quick in case you're hitting something that can counterattack and interrupt you.

PS: lol @ trying to pull Bogga Danga into this... it's faster, more damaging, more reliable, and even less draining. Easily the overall best PA for knuckles.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-03-26 13:58 ]</font>

[Sekani]

Follow Hrith's advice if you want to do the most potential damage. Follow Panzer's advice if you want to do more damage over time.

Of course if you're playing wartecher, obviously massive damage isn't your biggest concern, so you can safely ignore them both.

[DRO]

I bought the pa for the twin claws renzan seidan-ga (sp)...and it is awesome...i also have spinning strike..i like it .....thanks...now.....whats the best photon art for the twin sabers...and I never used a whip before...does it do alot of damage? Im a wt....but i really only use techs for heals and buffs....so i want to be able to deal maximum damage...

[Mewnie]

Fishy claw is painfully slow to execute. I can bust out a couple full, JA'd Renzans in that time.


I'm partial to Gravity Break for swords. It's not SUPERAWESOME, but it's crunchy, and that sells it for me :3

edit:



and I never used a whip before...does it do alot of damage?


Vivi Danga, the frag PA, looks promising. I've only gotten it to lvl 9, but I like it better that Grudda.

Both level insanely fast though.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mewnie on 2008-03-27 00:03 ]</font>

[mll]

For the twin sabers assault crush and cross hurricane are good. Cross Hurricane is quite prone to being interrupted but if you can get out the full combo its one of the stronger pa's.
Assault Crush is a lot safer and easier to use. If you like twin sabers they're both worth getting.
I prefer Vivi Danga for the whip both of the pa's do pretty much the same thing, Visshi Grudda is marginally easier to get all the targets in range but Vivi Danga is stronger.

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-03-27 00:01, Mewnie wrote:
I'm partial to Gravity Break for swords. It's not SUPERAWESOME, but it's crunchy, and that sells it for me :3


Gravity Break is an awesome PA combo (it's got heavy single target damage and then fast multi-target crowd control) but Swords are pretty slow to JA the first move of a PA combo... I've stopped using it in favor of Renzan/Robado which can quickly critical the best part of the move ever since the expansion hit.

With other Sword PAs I usually use the first move as a throw-away in order to get to more powerful combo hits (with criticals) faster... it's no big deal for Tornado Break or Spinning Break, but hurts gravity pretty bad for PP consumption and damage output until it gets changed in April at least.

[mll]

Gravity Break is getting changed? Excellent, its one of my favorite combos. What are they changing

[panzer_unit]

Sword PA's all got extra targets.

Gravity Break hits 1x2, 2x1, 3x1 ... the last hit has a HUGE damage mod even compared to the others, so in a multi-target situation you might do something like spamming out the PA just to get a critical on the last move.

Spinnig Break hits 2x2, 4x1, 4x2 ... I'm not sure what you're gonna get out of having 4 targets on the last move honestly.

Tornado Break hits 4x1, 5x1, 6x1 ... same old job, better at it.

[mll]

Seems strange to change tornado break, it was already one of if not the best aoe pa. Hell I won't be complaining though.
Speaking of Gravity Break and Wartechers though, I wouldn't recommend it, I like it a lot but its accuracy along with wartechers accuracy is a bit too problematic. Particularly when we have access to S rank Renzan and Robado.

[panzer_unit]

Well, at least Tornado Break ends up on par with whips for target count on the last move. I like that. Probably makes a right mess of dragons and gol dolva too.

[Hrith]

On 2008-03-26 13:56, panzer_unit wrote:
Bogga Robado also does 4 hits to 1 target, but you dash forward once and after that it's immobile, you can't even turn.Not less than Seidan, so you don't have a point.


Renzan moves forward between every move and will continue to face your locked-on target the entire time.Why use the incredibly crappy 2nd and 3rd part of Seidan, though?


It's much easier to land full hits on a moving target.I rarely use that as an argument, but if you cannot land all hits of Bogga Robado, then it's your fault, just get better.


in both cases the initial move is the real value compared to other Photon Arts, but everything else being equal the PA who's follow-up attacks fail the least is the better of the two.Exactly, and the first part of Bogga Robado is tons better than the first part of Renzan Seidan-ga.


Bogga Robado's second move has a lower damage mod than the first, cranks out one no-effect punch and only gets around to the one with juggle after a long pause.A "long pause" I've never been canceled of (well, enough to notice), so again, you're wrong.


Renzan has a quick 2-target launch to counter incoming attackers, and almost immediately follows that with knockdown on the second hit of the move to prevent victims from flying out of reach.As much as I agree that Seidan's juggle + knockdown on its second part is awesome, you forgot to mention how crappy the range and radius of that attack are, especially compared to Bogga Robado.


Bogga Robado's final move has a lot of damage potential, but it's preceeded by a juggle that knocks your original targets out of range, a long period of immobility so you can't get anything attacking anyone else, and worse yet the move packs knockback on every hit so even when it does connect it's often for only 2 hits before the target is blown out of range.Are you really such a terrible player, or are you making up stuff because you have no argument?

I have never sent monsters out of range of the third part with the second part.
The third part of Bogga Robado is fast enough to land the 4 hits (to two targets) waaaaaay before they're knocked back, the more you talk of Bogga Robado, the more it is apparent you have never used it.


lol @ trying to pull Bogga Danga into this... it's faster, more damaging, more reliable, and even less draining. Easily the overall best PA for knuckles.Bogga Danga is THE worst skill in the game (I refuse to debate over Splendor Crush or Renzan Seidan-ga being worse, they all equally suck), I already proved that numerous times, if you refuse to listen, well it's your problem, you're more than welcome to using crappy PAs and being an awful player.


So there, I proved you wrong on all accounts, again. It is very obvious that you know nothing about skills in this game, so next time just be quiet, it'll save you the ridicule.

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-03-27 13:02, Hrith wrote:

On 2008-03-26 13:56, panzer_unit wrote:
Bogga Robado also does 4 hits to 1 target, but you dash forward once and after that it's immobile, you can't even turn.Not less than Seidan
... and the first part of Bogga Robado is tons better than the first part of Renzan Seidan-ga.
... As much as I agree that Seidan's juggle + knockdown on its second part is awesome, you forgot to mention how crappy the range and radius of that attack are, especially compared to Bogga Robado.
... I have never sent monsters out of range of the third part with the second part.
... The third part of Bogga Robado is fast enough to land the 4 hits (to two targets) waaaaaay before they're knocked back.


Renzan has better stats on the first move... same damage, less cost, more ATA%. You can turn more freely and it moves farther forward during the combo.

I've tossed Vahra & Gohmon entirely out of reach on the second move of Robado, failing that they need to be toe-to-toe in order to take maximum damage. That pause makes it much more situational to execute against Polahorva and Ukbrada which should be perfect targets since they're 2 targets and get flipped over by juggle hits rather than knockback.

I've never had problems with Renzan's reach because I can move sufficently... Robado's reach is no better - it's certainly not Dus Robado or Tornado Break - and the relative immobility consistently produces crap results with the part that could be doing some awesome damage. Basically you've got to be swarmed by opponents despite firing a slow PA with weak crowd control.

I guess polties don't roll well?

Looking straight down on my character a vanda's almost got to be pretty much touching before I land 4 hits on it. That might be PS2-specific behaviour, but it's more likely make-believe on your part since every other fighter I talked to while leveling Robado also described the last move as "extremely situational" at best.


Bogga Danga is THE worst skill in the game I already proved that numerous times, if you refuse to listen, well it's your problem

Oh yeah and I remember your "proof" too. Even you couldn't fudge the numbers enough to make Danga look less damaging (the difference is greater post-AOI) and you vanished immediately after. In addition to raw output it's more reliable for hit counts and can be used more flexibly.
I guess being awesome makes an attack worse in Hrith Fairyland... that explains a lot of your opinions.

[TUSCAN]

boy it's tough to read some of the arguments on this board. you are both right and both wrong.

hrith - it seems when you are right about something you take waaay too much joy in the feeling, stop thinking and get very cocky. Robado does knock enemies a little too far away with the second part. not always, but alot. and Danga is not the worst pa in the game. the thing about Danga is it starts weak and builds power as you move through the combos, finishing with a very strong and very versatile attack.

panzer - paralysis by analysis. by comparing every part of every PA you wind up going after the wrong ones in search of that super strong third part.

you both need to remember 90% of the time you only need to do the first hit of any 3 part PA, save for the obvious stuff like majarra. knockback moves are only really good for soloing. take bruce for example. if you use knockback the mission becomes waaaay longer and waaay harder. in order to maximize time and PP, fighters need to use the fastest, cheapest most damaging first PA. I use Robado all the time and rarely use even the second part. if I use the second part slicers and bullets miss as they pop up into the air. most second parts are weaker and slower, which wind up being a waste of PP. for the damage done on a second part you're better off coming out of the PA, getting a little PP back with a quick swing and JA another strong first part. this is the only reason Danga doesn't get used. the first part is good, but most of the time we're fighting mid sized mobs who move fairly quickly, so the PA's we choose should maximize fast single target damage, hence Robado. pick a monster, get in fast, get out fast, next monster. Danga is great for large mobs, but we have Zubba and Ikk Hikk, and Jabroga, and Majarra, ect, so it's like the fat girl PA. nobody loves a fat girl, but OH how a fat girl can love! and if you're really heart set on the pop-up from the second part, just use Zubba! it's remarkably good for general use and very strong. side note: Zubba seems to be the best PA for light enemies. great in white beast and against gohmon.

so don't spend too much time arguing over PA's because odds are something will get nerfed or boosted and make all arguments void. nobody would use Robado at all if it didn't get a boost for AOI. also, we're all wrong because of slicers! really not worth being rude over. I would like to mention, though, that in our competent bruce party the Renzan user has switched to Robado after our demonstration. only time it's used beyond the first part is on that last Bil spawn because I've got them all stunned and burnt. as soon as they're stunned I switch to Robado because I can out do the trap with the PA. same with the first Dru Gohra spawn, 'cept I use Zubba on them.

[Sekani]

On 2008-03-27 16:02, TUSCAN wrote:
hrith - it seems when you are right about something you take waaay too much joy in the feeling, stop thinking and get very cocky.

Funny thing about Hrith--the cockier he sounds, the more misinformed he is. Most of the time anyway.

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-03-27 16:02, TUSCAN wrote:
panzer - paralysis by analysis. by comparing every part of every PA you wind up going after the wrong ones in search of that super strong third part.

you both need to remember 90% of the time you only need to do the first hit of any 3 part PA, save for the obvious stuff like majarra.

That's been mentioned, it's the only reason Robado's on the menu at all as far as knuckle skills go. The first move is really good for bashing single targets. But when your job's got access to another move that's equal for the best part and has better utility on the rest of the PA...

I've got both Dugrega and Danga on my palette in Bruce's Dungeon. Sometimes you need to put a hard stop to Vandas blowing fire on your team (mostly stupid Bruce) more than you need to leave everything "just so" for the Chikki squad. Dugrega's good because it's so damn fast on the knockback, Danga because I can spam non-disruptive hits instead of sending crap flying on the first move every time.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-03-28 07:08 ]</font>

[TUSCAN]

yeah, it was mentioned. my point is you are wasting your time trying to max out utility, not to mention team time by using the wrong PA's and (judging from your posts) going way too far into PA's waaay too often. this game does not reward versatility and utility as you (and I used to) believe. look at the master classes. using dugrega in bruce on a vanda is a perfect example of this. any vanda in that mission does not live long enough that you should worry about fire, and and spawn of more than a couple should be trapped (except for the ones after the two gates in the second block). utility is fine, just don't forget the best way to avoid vanda fire and bil de spins is by making the monster dead as fast as possible.

this is all just for the sake of discussion. when I do bruce I do it for speed, so that's my main focus with posts like these. I really don't want to be a part of some of the caustic discussions that these posts devolve into!

[biggabertha]

Bogga Robado's awesome for dealing loads of spammable damage to just one target and if you need to continue the combo, it's difficult to deal damage to the maximum number of targets initially but I've found that the difference is in the settings you're playing on. PS2 seems to always "lag out" so you hit with the last combo around 50-60% of the time. When I switched over to my laptop with Frame Skip 0, I could always land the last hit so there's something up with the system (kind of like how Anga Dugrega sometimes misses for PS2 users because having frame skip 1 shortens a lot of our PA lengths).

Looking at Wartecher weapons though, I'm sure that both of the fragment Twin Dagger PAs and the more expensive store Twin Dagger PA are very powerful and are excellent damage dealers coupled with some team support. Cross Hurricane seems to be pretty powerful too from what I've seen of it, Assault Crush is probably up there too with Rising Crush somewhere behind. Splendour Crush seems to be all flash and a lot of people whom have used it told me it doesn't connect very well/doesn't deal as much as the other Twin Swords PAs.

Bogga Zubba's probably your best bet for dealing loads of damage in the shortest amount of time though. It's almost like a mini-boss killer or large creature killer that's not resistant to melee. I wouldn't use it on Bil de Vears though...

I'm too partial for Gravity Break to ignore it, I just love slamming the LongSword down so hard!

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-03-28 08:49, TUSCAN wrote:
yeah, it was mentioned. my point is you are wasting your time trying to max out utility, not to mention team time by using the wrong PA's and (judging from your posts) going way too far into PA's waaay too often.
...
using dugrega in bruce on a vanda is a perfect example of this. any vanda in that mission does not live long enough that you should worry about fire, and and spawn of more than a couple should be trapped (except for the ones after the two gates in the second block)

this is all just for the sake of discussion. when I do bruce I do it for speed, so that's my main focus with posts like these. I really don't want to be a part of some of the caustic discussions that these posts devolve into!


What exactly are you judging from? For wanting to avoid caustic arguments you're going pretty far out of your way to be critical of how I play based on a couple of off-topic (this is about moves for WT damage output, right?) comments.

I like smooth bruce runs as much as everyone else. Yeah you don't have to work very hard, tag along with all the other awesome fighters and throw slicers/majarra around... watch the PT freeze or stun every hard fight into cakewalk. Half the Bruce teams I'm on are just like that. The rest are pretty much the opposite and hell yes as any fighter-type you need to know how to use ALL your skills well to avoid blowing it on occasion.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-03-28 10:28 ]</font>

[TUSCAN]

haha it's a trap!! although I base my judgements off of general observations over a period of time, I should know better than to enter these discussions. I think that prolly sounded quite a bit more coarse than I intended.

[Mewnie]

gogo strawman arguements! http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y46/MagpieMouse/MewnPSU/emot-awesome.gif

All I know is team Jagd kicks much butt and is hella fun :3

[Hrith]

On 2008-03-27 14:32, panzer_unit wrote:
I've never had problems with Renzan's reach because I can move sufficently... Robado's reach is no betterYou do realise you're fighting facts? I mean, there's no end to how ridiculous you want to get.


Looking straight down on my character a vanda's almost got to be pretty much touching before I land 4 hits on it. That might be PS2-specific behaviour, but it's more likely make-believe on your part since every other fighter I talked to while leveling Robado also described the last move as "extremely situational" at best.If "every other fighter" you have talked to says that, it confirms that over 50% of the melee players in this game are nubs, and it accounts for your low standards in PA efficiency.

I usually use Bogga Robado on monsters like Vanda Merha/Orga because it keeps them off their feet quite well, and I deal all eight hits of the final part everytime there are at least two of them, so you and your "every other fighter" just suck at using it.


On 2008-03-27 14:32, panzer_unit wrote:
Oh yeah and I remember your "proof" too. Even you couldn't fudge the numbers enough to make Danga look less damaging (the difference is greater post-AOI) and you vanished immediately after. In addition to raw output it's more reliable for hit counts and can be used more flexibly.looool, what a moron, I actually proved that Bogga Danga is crap, and you try to come back like you have not even learned your lesson.

And no, the AoI changes favoured Bogga Robado, because the only decently powerful hit on Bogga Danga is the third, which never hits 6 times.

Both moves have 16 hits, but Bogga Robado has better damage overall and will easily land all 16 hits, unlike Bogga Danga.

The fun of proving n00bs like you wrong wears out fast, so I don't stay long in topics where the posters are too retarded to face facts.


On 2008-03-27 16:02, TUSCAN wrote:
hrith - it seems when you are right about something you take waaay too much joy in the feeling, stop thinking and get very cocky.You just have no idea. Don't apply your psychology to me.


On 2008-03-27 16:19, Sekani wrote:
Funny thing about Hrith--the cockier he sounds, the more misinformed he is. Most of the time anyway.Funny coming from someone who does not have 1% of my knowledge about this game.


I've never been proven wrong once, but people with oversized egos cannot accept thet their beloved PAs are actually crap, so they make up arguments to hide from the truth. It's their problem, in the end, I have facts for me, I do not care past that.


The OP wanted to know which PAs do the most damage as a Wartecher, and they are: Bogga Zubba, Dus Majarra, Hikai Shuha-zan, Ikk Hikk (although of very limited use), Vivi Danga (bosses), Assault Crush and Hishou Jinren-zan.

There is nothing more to it.

[mll]

@ Hrith
Would the difference between the absolute strongest pa in any given situation really be that different from the weakest pa of a similar use?
Also while your here I remember you saying that spinning strike is outdamaged against a single target by hikai, could you elaborate. I was just thinking of picking it up, i thought a single target pa with silence on a shadoog would be useful against gaozorans etc.
But if hikai is better i'll skip it.

[TUSCAN]

do not argue with an idiot. he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

[mll]

Am I arguing?
To be honest I just wanted to know what the numbers on spinning strike are like.
I don't like the look of it enough for that to sell it to me and a number of people have said something similar in terms of its damage output.
Whatever else you want to say about hrith you can't deny he's done his homework in terms of numbers.

[Talise]

I kinda agree. Whatever Hrith might be wrong about, when it comes to damage, Hrith's usually right...I think

[Sekani]

On 2008-03-29 06:00, Hrith wrote:
Funny coming from someone who does not have 1% of my knowledge about this game.


I've never been proven wrong once, but people with oversized egos cannot accept thet their beloved PAs are actually crap, so they make up arguments to hide from the truth. It's their problem, in the end, I have facts for me, I do not care past that.


None of this is true.

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-03-29 06:00, Hrith wrote:
You do realise you're fighting facts? I mean, there's no end to how ridiculous you want to get.

It's amazing what counts as 'fact' in your world. Robado doesn't have a whole lot of range and worse yet it plants your character in one spot for the whole thing.


I usually use Bogga Robado on monsters like Vanda Merha/Orga because it keeps them off their feet quite well, and I deal all eight hits of the final part everytime there are at least two of them, so you and your "every other fighter" just suck at using it.

If you want to give the enemies the absolute maximum amount of time to deal damage with Damfoie and as many chances as possible to interrupt your PA with an evade, go ahead. Bogga Zubba launches 'em much faster if you're worried about actually keeping enemies off their feet, and probably comes close for damage over time @ 280% ATP on every hit.
Bogga Danga also hits with crowd control faster, and moves your character a much greater distance which helps a bit with preventing pile-ons.

The only WORSE knuckle move you could choose against a bunch of damfoie-using vanda is Ikk Hikk.


AoI changes favoured Bogga Robado, because the only decently powerful hit on Bogga Danga is the third, which never hits 6 times.

Both moves have 16 hits, but Bogga Robado has better damage overall and will easily land all 16 hits, unlike Bogga Danga.

I don't have problems with Danga's last move if I've got a decent number of targets. It's a given against 3-target enemies especially it follows knockdown and blow-away hits to stop them attacking, and any large crowd of enemies up close. Unlike Robado you can still get a good deal of damage done even if the target arrangement isn't perfect, it's not hamstrung by nailing you in place and prone to beating its own targets out of reach (with frameskip/PS2/lag at least)

Here are the lv30 damage mods from the japanese wiki;
Danga - 6x180 (better total), 4x250 (better total), 6x380 (better total)
Robado - 4x220, 4x220, 8x280


The fun of proving n00bs like you wrong wears out fast, so I don't stay long in topics where the posters are too retarded to face facts.

You should learn the meaning of words like 'proof' and 'fact' since you use them a lot despite offering nothing of the sort...
"Robado always works perfectly for me so you and half the fighters out there are nubs lololol", where in reality Hrith's just making up whatever lies he can to continue trolling a thread and insulting everyone.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-03-31 10:00 ]</font>

[shotsfired]

oh my goodness, I feel like I am in a high school right now. would you all just shut up with the arguing! just give opinions of what you think, and move on.

see, 3 personally love ikk hikk, although I am sure that is not the best PA for certain situations, I just love seeing big numbers.

danga for whip.

I also enjoy rensan.

that's it. no whining, bitching, or a " who's got a bigger dik " shoutiing match. just my 2 cents. have fun as a WT.

[MrNomad]

On 2008-03-31 09:47, shotsfired wrote:
oh my goodness, I feel like I am in a high school right now. would you all just shut up with the arguing! just give opinions of what you think, and move on.

see, 3 personally love ikk hikk, although I am sure that is not the best PA for certain situations, I just love seeing big numbers.

danga for whip.

I also enjoy rensan.

that's it. no whining, bitching, or a " who's got a bigger dik " shoutiing match. just my 2 cents. have fun as a WT.

If you dont like the arguments flying around then dont get in the middle of it. Believe it or not this is how most people show their opinions >.>

[danny_o]

On 2008-03-31 10:11, MrNomad wrote:

On 2008-03-31 09:47, shotsfired wrote:


that's it. no whining, bitching, or a " who's got a bigger dik " shoutiing match. just my 2 cents. have fun as a WT.

If you dont like the arguments flying around then dont get in the middle of it. Believe it or not this is how most people show their opinions >.>



...most ten year olds? Opinions are purely subjective, so their significance is quite small. They can be helpful when the opinion offered acknowledges the relevance of opinions in general, or they can descend into shouting matches. You can't get a "degree" in PSU, you can only "know a lot of stuff". Chimps that disagree with each other start to fling feces. But chimps can't type, so maybe we shouldn't act like chimps! (See, I don't tell you to stop acting like a chimp, merely make the suggestion.)

The OP asked for which Photon Arts caused the best damage, not which Photon Arts should get people laughed at for using.

Anyway, I like renzan, but I usually use the first move exclusively unless I am fighting something large, like Drua Gora or Grinna Beetts(sp?) with more than one hit-box.

Vivi-Danga is quite fun as well, but the second part that has the big damage can be difficult to time. It takes a few swings to get it "warmed up" and then you hit the monsters, so you can get interrupted or have your target wander off. But with a 38% lightning Vish against lvl 100 Navals, my level 85 WT can hit four or five of the little buggers for 1300~1400 damage.

Against bosses that aren't Maggas and maybe Degana, it's very useful. You could smack the second form of Fakis quite easily, too.

[Talise]

On 2008-03-31 10:41, danny_o wrote:
But chimps can't type, so maybe we shouldn't act like chimps! (See, I don't tell you to stop acting like a chimp, merely make the suggestion.)

That's just the same thing as sayin maybe you should stop acting like a chimp. The only real difference from you "telling him" is you added a maybe in it -_-. I'm tired of people implying things and not "saying it outright" so they can argue later that they never said this and this after they're proven wrong...
Playing around with words doesn't make you smart or better, it's just a way to avoid dealing with the real situation.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Talise on 2008-03-31 23:32 ]</font>

[BahnKnakyu]

lol Keg :/

[Katrina]

There's a lot of good recommendations in this thread. If I had to recommend one, I'd have to go with Renzan as a personal favorite.

We have S rank Twin Claws, and as the higher star claws are released the Att. potential will also progressively get stronger. Our A rank restricted weapons are already capped for the most part (barring the future releases of a few or future class adjustments).

The % for Renzan from 21-30 is very nice, with the damage potential capping at 455% for the last hit at 30. (lvl 21-30) 211 - 220%, 251 - 260%, 437 - 455%

[danny_o]

Renzan is also just 17pp, easy to spam after doing an entire JA'd regular attack combo. You can use one set of claws the whole run.

[dc534]

I dont even see many fF using their claws, have claws gone the way of the wind.

[Jakosifer]

^ ^ ^ FF's have Chikki, Majarra and Jabroga to hold them over! http://i26.tinypic.com/331zorq.jpg

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-04-01 22:43, dc534 wrote:
I dont even see many fF using their claws, have claws gone the way of the wind.


Fuka-misaki is only ice, Yamata-misaki is only dark. I think a lot of people are using other S-ranks that allow some some element selection.

Knuckles are the same deal, the 10* is ice and the 11* is beast only... if it weren't for Gant having a HUGE set bonus I don't know if you'd see many non-beasts using those because showing off some rares is a lot more appealing.

Once a decent number of good 12*'s (or highly grinded Kubaras) are floating around, it'll be a different story and you'll see people using 'em again... unless they've got more of the same restrictions.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-04-02 08:19 ]</font>

[Eleina]

On 2008-03-29 06:00, Hrith wrote:
I've never been proven wrong once, but people with oversized egos cannot accept thet their beloved PAs are actually crap, so they make up arguments to hide from the truth.Never been proven wrong? The number of times you've been proven wrong is higher than the number of "pvp in psu" topics over the forums...

As for this topic...
Sword: Not to be touched
Knuckles: Ikk hikk and zubba
Spear: Majjara
Twin sabers: Assault crush
Twin daggers: Not really useful
Twin claws: Renzan (despite what hrith says) is by far the best, the others aren't really great
Saber: Not useful (use renzan instead)
Dagger: Either pa finds uses damage wise (but will be outclassed by majarra)
Claw: No...just no...
Whip: Vivi danga not for bosses (because ikk hikk is better) but for big crowds




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Eleina on 2008-04-02 08:18 ]</font>

[RadiantLegend]

Lv them all and decide with one works for you.

[BahnKnakyu]

Saber: Spinning strike. It's a good 1v1 option and the insane amount of damage it does + ATA bonus at later levels is too good to pass up. I use this as my Jarba/Bildesnax/single target boss killer.

[dc534]

I am suprised that nobody has mentioned the whip, lvl 30 pa's plus the whip equals a more controled form of boma durenga, without the whole death effect. I just wish that they would have given us s-rank whips as well as the other s-ranks we get to use.

[mvffin]

agreed, whips are good dmg. Vivi Danga + decent % whip = 2k+ dmg per hit on the second part. I've done over 2500 with a dark tien on white beast with low hp. = )

I don't mind not having S-rank whips. Now, once the 11* and 12* whips come out over here.... GIB INCAP WHIP