Throwing water at the Olympic Torch. isn't that kinda exces

[Saner]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080407/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_olympics

lol. they would of hit the torch with water if they
were wearing thet Ghostbusters-like super soaker
cannon pack. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

but ya, I dunno why they are harsh to China. Isn't
China a peaceful country that is fair to all classes?

[Dhylec]

'Fair' is relative. ;]

[ABDUR101]

My thought on it is this; stop alienating China and maybe China will be more open to reform. What message are those assholes sending to the chinese nation? All they are shown in China are abunch of pricks dousing the flame because the olympics are to be held there; they aren't told on the news the reasoning behind it.

Aswell, aren't the olympics a reason for all nations to come together and have some friendly competition, share and experience each others culture, etc. Why be a prick about it, if you have a problem with where the olympics are being held, shove your high horse up your ass and get over it, go write madly in your little LJ/Blog and stop interrupting something that could lead to something better.

Hell, we recently had a nice cultural exchange with China, we had a symphony go over and play; and they gave a standing ovation.

China just needs to lay off the lead paint abit and we'll be a-ok. And if the Chinese aren't ok with how they live or are treated between their classes, I guess they'll do something about it like Americans had to, and the Protestants before them.

[McLaughlin]

They're doing it to shame Chine over their apparent Human Rights issues at the moment.

China also controls the media there, so it's likely being portrayed to the ignorant as unprovoked hatred. However, they aren't just doing this because they don't like where it's being held. China as a nation has been growing, and the Olympics is their entry in the developed world. There are obvious problems within China right now, and some people the only way to bring them to light, and to get China to change is to shame them into doing so.

I'm not sure what the best course of action here is, but I don't believe letting Chine just go on their merry way is going to solve anything. If there's no pressure, they won't have any need to change.

[Sekani]

Some prominent American politicians have gone so far as to call for boycotts of the Olympic Games, which is pretty ridiculous.

The Olympics don't deserve to be used as a soapbox for foreign policy issues. Unfortunately the lure of a stage this large is hard to ignore.

[ABDUR101]

Every nation has its problems, but you don't step in, bandage the problems and then say "Ok! Have fun and hope you figure out how to fix the next problem!"(Ala the middle east). China is growing, the rest of the world has to deal with it like it did when America grew, and every nation before. Lets face it, if America wants something or has a policy, odds are no one is going to step in and say "Hey, you can't do this because blahblahblah", because everyone wants to be buddy-buddy with America. Who wants to be China's friend? No one, so China growing and progressing in power is an issue; other nations want it suppressed abit.

I don't think shaming China is 'shaming China', its shaming the douchebags who make a mockery of something like the olympics by trying to douse the damn flame just because they don't like China, its shaming them and everyone else into looking like assholes to the Chinese people. Hello, opposite effect.

I agree with Sekani, everyone needs to address the shit in proper form, time and place and not mar something that has brought us all together. China most likely had to go through some pretty stringent hoops to hold the olympic games, which shows effort on their part that they WANT to be a part of world events.

[McLaughlin]

They clearly don't want the world to know about what's going on behind their wall though. Which is part of the problem. Beyond that though, I can't really add much more. I'm ignorant on this subject.

[CelestialBlade]

We all know China treats their people like shit, but what sickens me about this issue is how protesters are taking this out on the athletes, too. It's not fair to them at all, they just want to compete and put years and years of training on display. Protest the government of China, not the athletes.

[Sekani]

Despite what I say about keeping politics and the Olympics seperate, a little research leads me to believe that the IOC just loves stirring shit up. I base this mainly on some of the choices they've made for host cities in the past. Since host cities are chosen several years in advance this could all be a bit of a coincidence, but still, this kinda makes you think....

The 1916 Summer Olympics were scheduled to be held in Berlin, and ended up being cancelled because of World War I.

The 1936 Summer Olympics were held in Berlin under Hitler's rule. The 1940 Olympics were awarded to Tokyo, but cancelled because of World War II.

During the Cold War, even though both sides participated in the 1980 Winter Games in Lake Placid, New York (Miracle on Ice), there were massive boycotts of both the 1980 Summer Games in Moscow and the 1984 Summer Games in Los Angeles.

Even weirder is how even though governments can make all the political statements they want, the athletes representing them are swiftly rebuked (as in the infamous black power salute at the 1968 Games).

And now, in 2008, here we go again. What drama will come this time?

[ABDUR101]

On 2008-04-07 14:59, Sekani wrote:
And now, in 2008, here we go again. What drama will come this time?


We're due for another world war. =D

[Shadowpawn]

On 2008-04-07 13:36, Obsidian_Knight wrote:
They clearly don't want the world to know about what's going on behind their wall though. Which is part of the problem.



Honestly, who would? I'm pretty sure American, the EU and other nations don't detail every thing that happens behind the veil. That's a natural thing to want to suppress some information. However, I am not condoning what the Chinese are doing or have done. I'm saying this is not the place to go about bring this issue to light. It will only cause more strife.


On 2008-04-07 12:47, ABDUR101 wrote:

I guess they'll do something about it like Americans had to, and the Protestants before them.



Well there's that whole Wikileaks thing.

[KodiaX987]

On 2008-04-07 12:47, ABDUR101 wrote:
the olympics a reason for all nations to come together and have some friendly competition

HAHAHA, OH WOW!

[ABDUR101]

On 2008-04-07 20:25, KodiaX987 wrote:
HAHAHA, OH WOW!


Canadians don't count. Be a good neighbor and keep quiet, lest we annex for ice-cubes. >=O

[Fleur-de-Lis]

On 2008-04-07 12:24, Saner wrote:
Isn't China a peaceful country that is fair to all classes?
All communist nations start out that way, and it lasts a month or two, generally. Then human weakness kicks back in and things go back to business as usual.

But China does suppress, imprison, and torture all dissidents equally, and I believe that qualifies as 'fair', yes?

[Saner]

maybe the torch should be encased inside an obelisk? it would be waterproof.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3153/2396986280_4590355463.jpg

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Saner on 2008-04-08 03:23 ]</font>

[Freeze]

On 2008-04-07 20:28, ABDUR101 wrote:

On 2008-04-07 20:25, KodiaX987 wrote:
HAHAHA, OH WOW!


Canadians don't count. Be a good neighbor and keep quiet, lest we annex for ice-cubes. >=O



Watch it or we'll start throwing doughtnuts. Maybe a pie to the face.

[Kylie]

I saw someone on TV last night that said it's rediculous because the Olympic Games are for the athletes of the world and not the country it's in. I pretty much agree with that, and people should protest China and its policies in another way and respect the games.

[Weeaboolits]

Fairly asinine method of protest. "Hey, I don't like how your country treats you, I'm going to ruin the greatest moment of your life!"

Stupid bastards.

[Sinue_v2]

The Olympics don't deserve to be used as a soapbox for foreign policy issues. Unfortunately the lure of a stage this large is hard to ignore.

That's just the nature of the beast. The Olympics are a world gathering event, so it's expected that issues going on in the world will be brought to prominence during the games - especially concerning the countries the games are hosted in. Because the eyes of the world are focused on the games, there's always someone who boycotts or protests the games, or portions of the games to get their message across. At least thus far it hasn't come down to terrorism, which also has a long history of following the Olympics, such as the 1972 attack in Munich in which Palestinian terrorists held members of the Israeli team hostage, and eventually killed them. Or the 1996 Olympic bombing in Atlanta as a protest against "Global Socialism".

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Yeah, sometimes, the Olympics have been used for political purposes. Like, the 1964 Olympics for instance, which took place in Tokyo. Japan was in a time of post-war recovery, and they wanted to show the rest of the world that they were a good country. Now in the 2008 Beijing Olympics, China is trying to do the same.

[Alielle]

On 2008-04-07 12:47, ABDUR101 wrote:
Hell, we recently had a nice cultural exchange with China, we had a symphony go over and play; and they gave a standing ovation.


Don't you mean North Korea (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/27/world/asia/27symphony.html?ex=1361768400&en=e6f9c095cdc76a54&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss)?

[Dangerous55]

On 2008-04-08 18:52, Shiroryuu wrote:
Now in the 2008 Beijing Olympics, China is trying to do the same.



Have no illusions people. In the next few decades don't be suprised if China is at war with the Western world.

You know why gas is so expensive? It ain't Iraq, it is China. They're buying natural resources up like crazy, building the technology of their military up, etc.

Not that any of this is 'wrong'. It is just that when there are 2 ideaologically opposed countries(I'm lumping the English speaking world into one "country"), limited natural resources and many hot spots in the geo-political...stuff happens.

Have the Olympics there, just don't believe China is a benevolent democracy seeking properity and equal rights for everyone.

Compared to China we ARE the democratic bemevolent people we tell ourselves we are.

[ABDUR101]

On 2008-04-08 20:25, Alielle wrote:
Don't you mean North Korea (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/27/world/asia/27symphony.html?ex=1361768400&en=e6f9c095cdc76a54&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss)?


No, I meant China. Unfortunately I was wrong!

[Saner]

more news

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20080409/wl_time/chinasviewoftheolympictorchwar

[Randomness]

Please don't tell me I'm seeing the word "war" in that.

[Alielle]

I'd be careful about politicizing the Olympics itself, but the torch relay has a questionable history, and I wouldn't be sad to see it go. The tradition began with Hitler's approval in the 1936 Berlin Games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936_Berlin_Games), and was used as a propaganda tool (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7330949.stm) for the Nazi party. I think that's a good enough reason to abolish the theatrics of it altogether, especially with the near-propaganda level (http://torchrelay.beijing2008.cn/en/journey/sanfrancisco/news/n214297943.shtml) that China is taking it. They already had to reroute it in SF for "security purposes" (really to avoid coverage of nonviolent protesters) so that none of the general public knew where to go watch it - which tells me it's past being used for its supposed intended purpose and is only gonna serve as a platform to further push China's PR agenda. This should've been obvious from the beginnings of the protests and I'm sure they knew it was coming.

I'm really interested in seeing what happens when they run it through Tibet in June. -_-



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alielle on 2008-04-09 23:41 ]</font>

[Saner]

China has stopped terrorists from planning on kidnapping the atheletes!!

this is becoming madness! I've heard nothing like this in the previous
Olympics!

[Dragwind]

On 2008-04-07 13:13, Sekani wrote:
Some prominent American politicians have gone so far as to call for boycotts of the Olympic Games, which is pretty ridiculous.

The Olympics don't deserve to be used as a soapbox for foreign policy issues. Unfortunately the lure of a stage this large is hard to ignore.



Couldn't agree with this more. Its moreso the politicians that argue verbally about such economic troubles and disagreement about government, while you have other activist groups who seemingly find other problems to join in on.

It seems some people have forgotten the meaning of the Olympics being possibly one of the few things our world has to unite and enjoy, instead of find a spotlight to get their beliefs out on.

As I heard in an outraged radio broadcast from a Chinese American in San Francisco- Don't let the governments quarries in either country impact your views on the peoples beliefs.


I for one, hope we have a splendid matchup of skill and performance this year.

[Wings]

Hell, I've been to China and if you like military officers on every block, watching you with sub machine guns in their arms, then those here who say "China is a good country" should move there. China has no intent on making conditions better for it's citizens, it's just building itself up and up untill the entire world can't stop them from what ever they want to do.

Althought I dislike that the athletes will be affected in negative ways if a boycott happens, sometimes things need to be said and done when we're facing practically the next Nazi germany or Soviet Russia.

[Mewnie]

Has appeasement ever worked?


Beuller?


Beuller?


Trying to douse the torch is pushing it, but I support those who protest peacefully. Keep the awareness of China's abysmal track record in the spotlight.