This is what happens when you digitalize a database using so

[KodiaX987]

This morning, I go to my local mini-hospital for my monthly allergy shot. Normally, all our files were stored in a folder marked with our name, which contained everything relevant to what they were doing to us. However, today, they have but a small sheet in a plastic protector. When the nurse calls for me, she has no clue who I am.

She apologizes and says it's because they have turned the manual database into a digital one on computers. And that files that are placed into the electronic database take 24 hours to become available.

Wait, what?

Spoken from a programmer: This is impossible. The instant you stick something into a database, it becomes available. Right away. You have no reason to "freeze" a piece of data at all, especially in a DB that's to be used by only the employees.

The nurse says she'll go fetch my documents on paper so that she can have an idea what to do with me.

It turns out that, rather than punching the information into the DB as they should have, they instead scanned every file into picture form.

So what do they do if they want to know something about me? They print everything all over again! Back to square one, motherfuckers!

The nurse found the electronic DB unnecessarily complex and slow, but warned that she wasn't much of a computer person in the first place. I didn't have the heart to tell her how actually right she was.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KodiaX987 on 2008-04-08 07:12 ]</font>

[SabZero]

Well, they may have a system where they synchronize the records over night, hence the 24h waiting period.

But yeah - either do the IT thing right, or never mind!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SabZero on 2008-04-08 07:18 ]</font>

[xeku]

wtf?
Wow...that's amazing...lol!
I've heard people joke about doing something bizarre like this (small businesses and old records)...but to actually do it? Oh, hell..

What a joke...what do they do, destroy the newly printed records after the appointment?
Small number of patients I suppose?
I mean, there is no way this would be cheaper than hiring some data entry monkeys, otherwise.

How about updating records...lol!
Oh wait, scan a new form?!

Heh, this made my day.
Holy shit, you can't make this stuff up...

[panzer_unit]

You guys do realize that scanning forms as images is 100% accurate, where data-entry monkeys and OCR routines ALWAYS fuck something up... which is the last thing you want when talking about important shit like medical history, criminal records, etc.

If the nurse wasn't untrained (or untrainable... elderly office people are impossible to get into new PAPER procedures never mind computer) she'd use client software like some Java app that takes an afternoon to code to get the image from the database on her computer screen, then read it from there.

[rogue_robot]

Yes, panzer_unit, but scanning forms as images means that to modify one small piece, you have to re-scan the entire page. Additionally, either the database's manager, button monkeys, or an OCR within the database app are going to have to add text data to the images anyway, because a database search by file contents on raw images using text strings as the search parameter is guaranteed epic fail (unless the same OCR you just said always fucks something up is run on each entry in the database - which, of course, only slows things down further).

[KodiaX987]

To tell the truth, I'm not even sure why they did it, because none of the nurses appear prepared for that sorta thing, and even though all the computers in the facility got changed for fresh new ones, nobody turns them on.

I suppose that in the ideal scenario, the files should be made available on the hospital's internal network, so all the nurse has to do is sit down and pull up your file on her screen, because there's a computer in every examination room. But they don't even do that; they just print as they go in the center office instead.

[xeku]

On 2008-04-08 15:24, KodiaX987 wrote:
To tell the truth, I'm not even sure why they did it, because none of the nurses appear prepared for that sorta thing, and even though all the computers in the facility got changed for fresh new ones, nobody turns them on.

I suppose that in the ideal scenario, the files should be made available on the hospital's internal network, so all the nurse has to do is sit down and pull up your file on her screen, because there's a computer in every examination room. But they don't even do that; they just print as they go in the center office instead.




Oh hell, lol...
Now I feel guilty for laughing...this is sad, really.

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-04-08 14:16, rogue_robot wrote:
Yes, panzer_unit, but scanning forms as images means that to modify one small piece, you have to re-scan the entire page.

Oh yeah, I forgot that the ability to manipulate image files hasn't been invented yet.


Additionally, either the database's manager, button monkeys, or an OCR within the database app are going to have to add text data to the images anyway

Yeah but less info to type is less chance to cock up, especially if you keep it down to what a data-monkey would understand. A savvy system could even implement soundalikes and wildcard searches for text search criteria ... it beats typos, and it's mandatory given the retarded trend of creatively spelling kids' names.

These systems are highschool stuff. The biggest stumbling blocks are user adoption.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-04-09 07:19 ]</font>

[rogue_robot]

Simply manipulating the image files assumes the original was neat and tidy to begin with (maybe if it was typed, but not everyone's handwriting is so clean).

Won't argue with the "creative spelling" issue, though - although there's really not much you can do with that.



EDIT: Besides, who does the editing on the image file, anyway - someone who magically won't fuck it up? Still plenty of room for human error there. It just isn't something you can escape so easily.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: rogue_robot on 2008-04-09 07:29 ]</font>

[Nai_Calus]

I'm interested to know, panzer, where you get the idea from that typing something up is any more likely to get it wrong than writing it out by hand is.

Even adding another person into the mix, it's still just as likely to get errors with the originator - I think faster than I write and I've been known to merge words together, skip a word or several words, etc while writing by hand. Imagine if I need to write something like 'Patient can't have *whatever*' and I manage to drop the 't part.

Better idea: Make a proper fucking database. Train people how to actually use the goddamned thing. Keep the original papers around and the first three or so times it's accessed, check the info in the database against the original paper shit. If there's no errors, great. If there is, fix the fucking things and move on. Once stuff has been verified shove the originals into a filing cabinet or six somewhere in case the computers fuck up. Yes, it takes time and money but Jesus Christ you'd think medical records would be something that'd be a good idea to spend time and money and some actual fucking thought on...

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-04-09 07:39, Ian-KunX wrote:
I'm interested to know, panzer, where you get the idea from that typing something up is any more likely to get it wrong than writing it out by hand is.
..
Better idea: Make a proper fucking database. Train people how to actually use the goddamned thing. Keep the original papers around and the first three or so times it's accessed, check the info in the database against the original paper shit. ... Jesus Christ you'd think medical records would be something that'd be a good idea to spend time and money and some actual fucking thought on...


I used to deal with these kind of employees, processes, and systems all the time at my university job. ProTip: if you're going to computerize, don't do it in such a way that all of your employees completely hate the new system. You start off in the hole just for changing old processes, making everything really slow and work-intensive in order to support some expensive over-engineered solution is setting up for failure.

For data entry, a student filling in their course info on a form once a year... or a doctor filling info on a medical record about their patient... is paying a completely different level of attention than an office clerk manually copying those forms into a web app form as rapidly as possible all day for a week trying to get records into the system.