Cast FT15 vs. MF20

[Hiroko]

Cast Female (Fortetecher 15) - Online
Level HP ATP ATA TP DFP EVP MST STA
118 1827 597 307 1162 152 606 369 12

Cast Female (Masterforce 20) - Online
Level HP ATP ATA TP DFP EVP MST STA
118 1849 453 219 1147 218 303 383 9

Very surprizing...I would have expected these numbers to be further apart... xD

[Indica]

Im not sure why some people use Cast. Let see some Newman numbers

[chibiLegolas]

That can't be right, can it?
And those stats are for FOcast lvl 118 huh?
Wonder if it drastically changes at lvl 120. (doubt it tho).

[Poncho_Jr]

Me beautiful Evasion!!! Gone!!! *faints*

[Hiroko]

It's correct...check the stat comparison page. I didn't look at Newmans, but all the info is there. However, only data for Master classes at 20 is available. xD

[Hiroko]

Here's the newmans at lv120...

Newman Female (Fortetecher 15) - Online
Level HP ATP ATA TP DFP EVP MST STA
120 1623 518 302 2055 130 896 996 12

Newman Female (Masterforce 20) - Online
Level HP ATP ATA TP DFP EVP MST STA
120 1594 381 209 1969 181 435 1003 9

[YUKI_N]

Masterforce has lower TP yes, but they'll still do far more damage with built in har/quick and 10 additional tech levels. The TP just makes their level 10 resta even gimpier

[RemiusTA]

for what matters, its about a 100 TP decrease on Masterforce and a slight HP decrease. Defense however increases.

100 TP decrease is a drop in damage, but not too much, considering any character who is playing Masterforce has no reason to even BE a masterforce unless he/she is using Lv 41+ technics, which have a drastic increase in both range speed and in most cases Targets, and also get extra Technic % to balance off the damage.

Not too bad at all.

[Umberger]

On 2008-04-08 14:36, YUKI_N wrote:
[...]built in har/quick[...]


No. The speed bonus does not affect charge times a la Me and Har / Quick, it affects the "casting animation" of the weapon. If you go watch the comparison video, you can tell that the charge time for Masterforce and Fortetecher are the same, the Masterforce just moves the weapon faster. I believe the same goes for Acrotecher's speed bonus as well.

[NeoTeppin]

Umberger i dont think he meant that it did the same as a har/quick just that MF got a speed boost in attacks...

[Umberger]

On 2008-04-08 16:43, NeoTeppin wrote:
Umberger i dont think he meant that it did the same as a har/quick just that MF got a speed boost in attacks...



I know, but I'd rather avoid any misconceptions before they arise and someone gets upset that MF with no Har / Quick isn't as fast as FT with one. =p

[Xaeris]

On 2008-04-08 14:38, RemiusTA wrote:


100 TP decrease is a drop in damage, but not too much, considering any character who is playing Masterforce has no reason to even BE a masterforce unless he/she is using Lv 41+ technics,


If I were a technic user, you can bet I'd go MF to actually level those technics.

[Indica]

On 2008-04-08 14:36, YUKI_N wrote:
Masterforce has lower TP yes, but they'll still do far more damage with built in har/quick and 10 additional tech levels. The TP just makes their level 10 resta even gimpier



Im not all that impressed. LV30-40 was not all that great with Diga, and that's the most powerful Tech Spell.

These numbers are pathetic, and Ha/Quick subtracts -100 TP.

[daniel_drago]

On 2008-04-08 19:23, Indica wrote:

On 2008-04-08 14:36, YUKI_N wrote:
Masterforce has lower TP yes, but they'll still do far more damage with built in har/quick and 10 additional tech levels. The TP just makes their level 10 resta even gimpier



Im not all that impressed. LV30-40 was not all that great with Diga, and that's the most powerful Tech Spell.

These numbers are pathetic, and Ha/Quick subtracts -100 TP.



How are they pathetic? and they already have har/quick yeah add another one in if you want but 100tp or 200 tp isnt going to ruin the damage by much.

In all honesty why do they even have ATP and ATA? they should be damn right zero's but everything else i agree with.

[Inazuma]

On 2008-04-08 17:02, Umberger wrote:

On 2008-04-08 16:43, NeoTeppin wrote:
Umberger i dont think he meant that it did the same as a har/quick just that MF got a speed boost in attacks...



I know, but I'd rather avoid any misconceptions before they arise and someone gets upset that MF with no Har / Quick isn't as fast as FT with one. =p



MF w/o haru quick is perfectly exactly even w/ FT using one, in overall tech speed.
you are rite about the initial charge up speed being faster on the FT w/ quick. but the MF casts the actual tech faster than the FT, so in the end, its 100% exactly even.

[landman]

Forte lvl 15 almost = Master lvl 20 in stats, so Forte lvl 20 still superior, isn't it?

[Powder Keg]

On 2008-04-08 18:17, Xaeris wrote:

On 2008-04-08 14:38, RemiusTA wrote:


100 TP decrease is a drop in damage, but not too much, considering any character who is playing Masterforce has no reason to even BE a masterforce unless he/she is using Lv 41+ technics,


If I were a technic user, you can bet I'd go MF to actually level those technics.





Agreed. This is what I'll be doing. I like the defense boost, too. The TP is minimal. You barely notice a difference when using a Har / Quick to begin with.

[Cracka_J]

O NOES TEH EVP!!

*cries*

[Shinko]

Mmm.... the master classes isn't all that great like ppl make them especially after see these stat, restrictions, and the pp usage. People make it see like the master classes are so superior to the other ones. I mean the master classes seem like a nice class (like the whole speed thing and mixture of good weapons in one class) but i think it's in the same boat with all the others.

[Astarin]

On 2008-04-09 09:50, Inazuma wrote:
...

MF w/o haru quick is perfectly exactly even w/ FT using one, in overall tech speed.
you are rite about the initial charge up speed being faster on the FT w/ quick. but the MF casts the actual tech faster than the FT, so in the end, its 100% exactly even.



I don't think this is the case. The video that I'm sure we've all seen shows FT, FT w/ Har Quick, MF, and MF w/ Har Quick all casting three consecutive technics in a row. FT with Har Quick seemed to finish three casts before the MF. Admittedly, the difference doesn't seem to be very much, and was only noticable on slow technics (Gibarta).

[Inazuma]

On 2008-04-09 13:55, Astarin wrote:

On 2008-04-09 09:50, Inazuma wrote:
...

MF w/o haru quick is perfectly exactly even w/ FT using one, in overall tech speed.
you are rite about the initial charge up speed being faster on the FT w/ quick. but the MF casts the actual tech faster than the FT, so in the end, its 100% exactly even.



I don't think this is the case. The video that I'm sure we've all seen shows FT, FT w/ Har Quick, MF, and MF w/ Har Quick all casting three consecutive technics in a row. FT with Har Quick seemed to finish three casts before the MF. Admittedly, the difference doesn't seem to be very much, and was only noticable on slow technics (Gibarta).



i did my own testing, side by side (i have 2 accounts) and it was even. anyway, it really doesnt matter b/c FT is crappy. if there was a cast speed difference between force and FT, you wouldnt even care. you know FT kicks the shit outta force. this is a stupid argument really. "MF is 50% better than FT!" "No, its only 48% better!" who cares. just get your FT to lv 10, get your S rank items, switch to MF and be happy.

[Indica]

MF is not even out yet. I'm willing to bet Sega will fine tune and adjust it by the summer

[Astarin]

On 2008-04-09 14:12, Inazuma wrote:
Stuff that proved me wrong.


Alright, fair enough. *shrugs* It just looked like there might be a noticable difference with consecutive casts.

And I will be trying Masterforce when it arrives, but I don't think FT becomes obsolete. The only things that I don't like about FT are the really low HP, and that our support technics are the same as the other techers. Both of those issues are getting improved, so FT looks like it'll always be the most appealing techer class for me. MF will just be my fun side-job, I think.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Astarin on 2008-04-09 14:20 ]</font>

[Inazuma]

if you want to be a weaker version of the MF, it wont be obsolete to you, so dont worry (^_^)

[daniel_drago]

On 2008-04-09 14:33, Inazuma wrote:
if you want to be a weaker version of the MF, it wont be obsolete to you, so dont worry (^_^)



Er...FT won't become obsolete at all. I've said this in another thread. It's good for attac and support (or will be) so you don't have to go out looking for a AT and an MF just find a FT thats got 40 in everything much easier and more classes can be in the party.

[Inazuma]

FT's buffs are 10% stronger
MF's casting speed is about 30% faster (just a rough estimate)
MF's damage is about 10% to 30% stronger (depends on the buffs. another rough estimate)

i dunno, sounds like FT is obsolete to me. if buffs are so important to you that you would lose tons of speed and power, i think you should consider acrotechter.
cant wait for the master types to come out on the eng ver. its gonna be funny seeing ppl complain about them being too strong (^_^)

[Tsavo]

So you're saying FT is obsolete because we have AT for top support and MF for tech damage? Huh, never thought of it that way. FT seems it has best of both worlds to me now with 2nd best support/attack techs and its ranged options. Seems a really solid class now. But to each their own I suppose.

[Inazuma]

to each their own is right but its certainly not "the best of both worlds".

oh, and nosuzonde/nosumegido gain 30% power plus 10% elemental from lv 40 to 50. how do you feel about FT's range options (longbow. card is uselss) now?

sorry, im having too much fun bashing on FT. maybe i should take a break -_-



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Inazuma on 2008-04-09 15:16 ]</font>

[RemiusTA]

On 2008-04-09 10:42, Shinko wrote:
Mmm.... the master classes isn't all that great like ppl make them especially after see these stat, restrictions, and the pp usage. People make it see like the master classes are so superior to the other ones. I mean the master classes seem like a nice class (like the whole speed thing and mixture of good weapons in one class) but i think it's in the same boat with all the others.



NO, WRONG, this is NOT the case, and i wish everyone would stop SAYING that.

They were NEVER supposed to be "the best class". Why on earth would there be all of those hybrid classes if you could play one perfect class? They were NEVER supposed to be that. They also were not supposed to trump the Forte classes, either. You people just guessed them to.

And thats EXACTLY why i tell you people to stop making those stupid fucking spectulation threads.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RemiusTA on 2008-04-09 17:00 ]</font>

[Zorafim]

Hi, you guys seemed to of clicked on the wrong thread. Try posting your, erm, "thoughts" here (http://youtube.com/watch?v=NVR8u0xnndI) for a better result.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zorafim on 2008-04-09 17:11 ]</font>

[Atomic646]

Even with a 100 Tech lower on a Master Force, If a ForteTecher uses Har / Quick -100 Tech right? The Master Force only casts slightly slower with out Har / Quick compaired to a ForteTecher with Har / Quick.

Information compiled from http://youtube.com/watch?v=0fUkLYc1vr8

[Ashkahn]

Atomic's vid is a Rickroll.

[Kietrinia]

We'll see if Sega makes any adjustments to the MF class before it's released. I'm pretty sure even a few JP players are disappointed with the MF stats compared to the FT stats.

[desturel]

On 2008-04-09 15:12, Inazuma wrote:
oh, and nosuzonde/nosumegido gain 30% power plus 10% elemental from lv 40 to 50. how do you feel about FT's range options (longbow. card is uselss) now?


You can fire 4 longbow bullets in the time it takes for one noszonde to go off. That's not really a good comparison. I find Noszonde better for Shagreece, Zoona, and Kudetob. I find bows better for Onmagoug and Dimmagolus. Since the bow isn't an option for MF there isn't really a point in the argument anyway.

[Inazuma]

long bow does around 500 damage and nosu techs do about 1500 to 3000 maybe. i dunno, its not so bad missing the long bow. pretty much the only time it will really affect the MF is for the de rol le fight.

[Sexy_Raine]

Sorry but forces got the shit end of the stick in AOI. When Sega gives MF something to close the gap from the other masterclasses then I'll be happy, MF defense stats are awful. Give MF a charge special that gives a damage boost, then i'll take back what I said.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2008-04-10 19:23 ]</font>

[Talise]

*ahem* MF is better than FT in damage, there's no arguing that at all, BUT MF is a techer class that, for once, doesn't aim to have a supporting role at all. This is the only part where FT will come in, you want to have shiny attack spells and still be able to play support. While MF is just going to bash things and use buff items and only resta themselves(and resta doesn't have a tp modifier, your healing on yourself is never gimped whatsoever, and in fact you now require less pp to do it).

Those stats do look horrible though -_-

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Talise on 2008-04-13 04:49 ]</font>

On 2008-04-10 13:09, Inazuma wrote:
long bow does around 500 damage and nosu techs do about 1500 to 3000 maybe. i dunno, its not so bad missing the long bow. pretty much the only time it will really affect the MF is for the de rol le fight.


Take that and change it to onmagoug/dimmagolus. You can hit De Rol Le with foie most of the time when it's showing its tail/head to you. Forces(including hybrid ones) pretty much have it best against De Rol Le considering they dish out great damage even with a mag and they can heal themselves.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Talise on 2008-04-13 04:53 ]</font>

[Miyoko]

Take that and change it to onmagoug/dimmagolus. You can hit De Rol Le with foie most of the time when it's showing its tail/head to you. Forces(including hybrid ones) pretty much have it best against De Rol Le considering they dish out great damage even with a mag and they can heal themselves.


Uh... Have you never seen a fG against De Rol? >___>;

[CelestialBlade]

How Newman Masterforce should have gone:

HP: 200
ATP: 0
ATA: 1
TP: 2000
DFP: 0
EVP: 1000
MST: 1200
STA: 0

Maybe that'll teach them Forces to dodge a little.

[Dirkster111]

Someone give us the stats between Fortegunner and Mastergunner, or link me to the stat calculator.

[Talise]

On 2008-04-14 04:29, Miyoko wrote:


Take that and change it to onmagoug/dimmagolus. You can hit De Rol Le with foie most of the time when it's showing its tail/head to you. Forces(including hybrid ones) pretty much have it best against De Rol Le considering they dish out great damage even with a mag and they can heal themselves.


Uh... Have you never seen a fG against De Rol? >___>;


I've seen one die 6 times on De Rol Le, while AT's and GT's never die, have you seen them at De Rol Le?
okay, so not never. At lvl 80 on S and lvl 120 on S2, and the Fg was 122 on S2.
Seriously, you can't argue this. Outside of the worm throw-up(if you fail to kill its head after awhile, pretty much impossible for any class but hunter classes) and tunnel collaspe(if you get hit twice in succession), there's nothin that can be thrown at you that you won't be able to heal. Now how many TIMES you have to heal is a factor. Spears fly at you(when you're closing with it with buttons), all you have to do is cast resta. A FG's probably popping a few dimates or a trimate in 1 go, and if they're not careful, they're dead. I'm not arguing that FGs kill slower, not at all.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Talise on 2008-04-14 15:32 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Talise on 2008-04-14 15:38 ]</font>

[Miyoko]

On 2008-04-14 15:25, Talise wrote:
I've seen one die 6 times on De Rol Le, while AT's and GT's never die, have you seen them at De Rol Le?
okay, so not never. At lvl 80 on S and lvl 120 on S2, and the Fg was 122 on S2.
Seriously, you can't argue this. Outside of the worm throw-up(if you fail to kill its head after awhile, pretty much impossible for any class but hunter classes) and tunnel collaspe(if you get hit twice in succession), there's nothin that can be thrown at you that you won't be able to heal. Now how many TIMES you have to heal is a factor. Spears fly at you(when you're closing with it with buttons), all you have to do is cast resta. A FG's probably popping a few dimates or a trimate in 1 go, and if they're not careful, they're dead. I'm not arguing that FGs kill slower, not at all.


Geez, you've played with some -awful- fGs apparantly http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif De Rol is painfully easy to dodge if you know how to use the boat to avoid his attacks. By simply moving the boat left and right, you can avoid pretty much every attack he has. I can easily do that entire fight without getting hit >_>

I'd argue fG/gT have it best against De Rol, simply because of rifles and their crazy range. (Yeah, techers can use noszonde, but it takes a reaaaally long time to get to him.) I can see where you're coming from, though.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Miyoko on 2008-04-14 21:16 ]</font>

[Talise]

huh that means you're not closing with him(standing on the side button to get the raft next to him) to use majarra or w/e other more damaging attack. That's fine too I guess http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif. Well as pure techer I'd really only use foie to hit him and not bother with it when it's not within my range(yes, foie can hit it even when it's in the air).