Pipe trick

[SC]

Im a pinkal Force, trying to get the Star Amplifer, and its 1/2 Drop from Hildetorr.

My mate said use the pipe trick, but wtf is it and how does it work?????

i want the Twinkle Star Dammit!

um... yeah, hows it work people?

[DC_PLAYER]

http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=723

[SStrikerR]

Do the quest forest of silence, and in the room with 3-4 hildelts, set a telepipe, come back, and there's a chance one or more could be a hildetorr, and if not, just keep setting pipes, coming back, etc till you find one. good luck.

[GreenArcher]

Run Forest of Sorrow

In forest two in the last room, two hildelts will drop down. Run around the room until a third one pops down. Kill that third hildelt, then another will pop down. Kill that one, another will pop down. Kill that one, and two will pop down. Now you're left with 4 hildelts, set a pipe and return to Pioneer 2. Pipe back down to the forest, and a) kill the hildetorr or b) if there are no hildetorrs, pipe again.

[Ithildin]

You forgot to mention there are two more Hildes in two other rooms. So you can keep that four and run around to check on the other two then pipe. Repeat.

[AlexCraig]

Don't pipe, for the sake of your GC/Wii.

As mentioned above, do the Forest of Sorrow mission. If by the end you do not fond your Hildetorrs, quit the mission. That way, you don't lose the mission, you save your GC/Wii, and you still have a chance to find your Torrs. I did this with Fake in Yellow to find Pal Rappies. It DOES work and is a more effective way to go about this.

[Splash]

On 2008-04-12 15:17, AlexCraig wrote:
Don't pipe, for the sake of your GC/Wii.

As mentioned above, do the Forest of Sorrow mission. If by the end you do not fond your Hildetorrs, quit the mission. That way, you don't lose the mission, you save your GC/Wii, and you still have a chance to find your Torrs. I did this with Fake in Yellow to find Pal Rappies. It DOES work and is a more effective way to go about this.


It's not considered "effective" if you need to do runs over and over again just so you can get to a certain location. With respect to seeing rare monsters, piping guarantees that you would see that rare monster at some point as oppose to random runs where nothing appears. The only exception to this is if the entire quest has nothing but the same monster (i.e. Fake in Yellow), in which piping is utterly useless. And yes, the cost of piping is a gradually breaking GC/Wii.

[SStrikerR]

Well if you only pipe 10-20 times a day or so your GC wont break down fast. I pipe aroudn this much just about every other day for at least a year and my gc's fine. That and if it does break, I can go buy one for $30.

[Aisha_Clan-Clan]

On 2008-04-12 15:17, AlexCraig wrote:
Don't pipe, for the sake of your GC/Wii.

As mentioned above, do the Forest of Sorrow mission. If by the end you do not fond your Hildetorrs, quit the mission. That way, you don't lose the mission, you save your GC/Wii, and you still have a chance to find your Torrs. I did this with Fake in Yellow to find Pal Rappies. It DOES work and is a more effective way to go about this.



That, and you'll more then likely find a Monomate or something for the first few. =>.<=
Just make several runs. You will get some nice exp and other items along the way.

[AlexCraig]

Exactly! (I actually learned that from you XD)

[SStrikerR]

That's true, but there's always a chance of not finding them for over 100 runs, and you need to do the earlier parts of the quest to get to the bears/ The items and exp are nice, but he can get them after he gets his twinkle star.

[Nitro Vordex]

On 2008-04-12 19:25, Ryan113 wrote:
That's true, but there's always a chance of not finding them for over 100 runs

Depending on the difficulty, he might chance on other rares, not to mention the exp, possible Mag raising, and money making.

All in all, it is more effective.

[Splash]

On 2008-04-12 19:54, Nitro_Vordex wrote:
Depending on the difficulty, he might chance on other rares, not to mention the exp, possible Mag raising, and money making.

All in all, it is more effective.

It is not an "effective" method if the outcome is not the expected result. Again, as said, you could do 100 runs and you could get nothing out of them meaning you are just wasting time trying to do random runs where the item you want from the rare monster does not appear.

Thus, in short, with respect to seeing rare monsters specifically, piping is a better method. With respect to doing other stuff and not be concerned about seeing the rare monster, then runs are better.

[Gabriel]

Just taking the quest in itself isn't really that effective, so you've got one hell of a problem there. However, when checking for SIX Hildes, piping can't be that difficult.

And BTW - So, the pipe trick %*$#s up the GC? Yikes! Does it also happen to the Xbox, or is it a minidvd-related problem?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gabriel on 2008-04-12 23:26 ]</font>

[AlexCraig]

It wears out the laser, so ANY version of PSO is vulnerable (save for BB which the Pipe Trick does not work).

[Nitro Vordex]

On 2008-04-12 22:57, Splash wrote:

On 2008-04-12 19:54, Nitro_Vordex wrote:
Depending on the difficulty, he might chance on other rares, not to mention the exp, possible Mag raising, and money making.

All in all, it is more effective.

It is not an "effective" method if the outcome is not the expected result. Again, as said, you could do 100 runs and you could get nothing out of them meaning you are just wasting time trying to do random runs where the item you want from the rare monster does not appear.

Thus, in short, with respect to seeing rare monsters specifically, piping is a better method. With respect to doing other stuff and not be concerned about seeing the rare monster, then runs are better.


You're confusing effective with completing your objective, they're not neccesarily the same.No matter which method you use, at the base, the enemy chance is always 1/512. There's Hildes all over that quest, what you're implying is ignore all of the other ones and go straight for that room. The runs, in a sense are better, as you're not just piping for 5. You have the chance of EVERY Hilde in the quest of changing when you do runs, which greatly increases your chances, see?

[AlexCraig]

That, and as Aisha pointed out you get more experiance, meseta, and chances for other rares along the way.

[Nitro Vordex]

That too. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Splash]

On 2008-04-12 23:16, Nitro_Vordex wrote:
You're confusing effective with completing your objective, they're not neccesarily the same.No matter which method you use, at the base, the enemy chance is always 1/512. There's Hildes all over that quest, what you're implying is ignore all of the other ones and go straight for that room. The runs, in a sense are better, as you're not just piping for 5. You have the chance of EVERY Hilde in the quest of changing when you do runs, which greatly increases your chances, see?

No, I'm saying you should kill all of them in the quest besides the piping room one.

And no, you are confusing by the definition of "effective", which by dictionary.com, is:

1. adequate to accomplish a purpose; producing the intended or expected result:
Yes, it is an adequate method to finding some other rares along the way, but no it's not an adequate method to finding the specific item from the Hildetorr because again, doing 100 runs with no resulting Hildetorr means that the result was not expected, thus there is no way it can be "effective". Furthermore, 100 pipes with each being 10 seconds long is quicker than 100 runs with 10 minutes long each.

The whole point of piping is to give a guarantee shot that one point, the monster that can change to a rare would become a rare. The whole point of doing runs is that you hope to get the monster to become rare along the way, which has no guarantee. The quest also you need to pipe down at least once to Forest 2, meaning the rare monster could have been in the Forest already, only to be changed due to that pipe.

[AlexCraig]

But are we sure the OP is willing to risk his GC/Wii for said item? We cannot say. I merely recommended an alternative to piping which runs a less chance of ruining his console (which in the case of that, I hardly think finding a Torr with a rare item makes up for the cost of a new console).

[Splash]

On 2008-04-12 23:43, AlexCraig wrote:
But are we sure the OP is willing to risk his GC/Wii for said item? We cannot say. I merely recommended an alternative to piping which runs a less chance of ruining his console (which in the case of that, I hardly think finding a Torr with a rare item makes up for the cost of a new console).

I didn't say it was the choice to make. I was merely explaining that what you said about runs being effective to finding the rare monster is completely wrong.

And again, I did mention that the negative part of it is a gradually wearing out GC/Wii, in which yes, it would wear out if piping was done consistently.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Splash on 2008-04-12 23:48 ]</font>

[Nitro Vordex]

On 2008-04-12 23:35, Splash wrote:

Yes, it is an adequate method to finding some other rares along the way, but no it's not an adequate method to finding the specific item from the Hildetorr because again, doing 100 runs with no resulting Hildetorr means that the result was not expected, thus there is no way it can be "effective". Furthermore, 100 pipes with each being 10 seconds long is quicker than 100 runs with 10 minutes long each.

The whole point of piping is to give a guarantee shot that one point, the monster that can change to a rare would become a rare. The whole point of doing runs is that you hope to get the monster to become rare along the way, which has no guarantee. The quest also you need to pipe down at least once to Forest 2, meaning the rare monster could have been in the Forest already, only to be changed due to that pipe.


You're using a one sided arguement. You're saying that piping is guaranteed, and the runs aren't. Piping in no way is a guarantee. It merely increases your chances for doing less at the risk of your GC/Wii. Either way, you're really only hoping for a rare monster. I remember piping anddoing runs for an Pal Rappy for 3 hours, and I didn't get squat.

Got plenty of Angry Fists though. Damn things. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

Anyway, I suppose it's a matter of preference. Do runs for exp and use time, or get a quick fix with the piping and put your system at greater risk.

[Gabriel]

I was piping insanely the other day and found two Mil Lilys in the same room in the Temple. From a total of 5 Ob lilys IIRC, one of them finally "turned into" a Mil. I killed it, and got a... KNIGHT/POWER. DAAAAAAAAHHHH
But then, I decided to pipe one last time, and quit for the day. As soon as I got there again, one of the four remaining Obs had become a Mil too! And I got the Standstill shield, which finally allowed me to change my equipment after about 60 levels of Secret Gear-ing.

I also found a Pal Rappy like that on another occasion, but it must've taken some 30 pipes. Even so, it was a lot faster than the 7 times I rode through Fake in Yellow in which the best I got was two fat rappies in the same room. No Pal Rappy, period.

So at least from my experience, piping actually will make the rare enemies appear a lot sooner than actually going through entire quests, but destroying your console is now your choice.

Adding newfound knowledge to brain:
Oh, my poor xbox... What have I done?

[Nitro Vordex]

On 2008-04-13 01:02, Gabriel wrote:
I was piping insanely the other day and found two Mil Lilys in the same room in the Temple. From a total of 5 Ob lilys IIRC, one of them finally "turned into" a Mil. I killed it, and got a... KNIGHT/POWER. DAAAAAAAAHHHH
But then, I decided to pipe one last time, and quit for the day. As soon as I got there again, one of the four remaining Obs had become a Mil too! And I got the Standstill shield, which finally allowed me to change my equipment after about 60 levels of Secret Gear-ing.

I also found a Pal Rappy like that on another occasion, but it must've taken some 30 pipes. Even so, it was a lot faster than the 7 times I rode through Fake in Yellow in which the best I got was two fat rappies in the same room. No Pal Rappy, period.

So at least from my experience, piping actually will make the rare enemies appear a lot sooner than actually going through entire quests, but destroying your console is now your choice.

Adding newfound knowledge to brain:
Oh, my poor xbox... What have I done?


Doesn't work on Xblox. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Ithildin]

Yeah I have to say I do agree with the ppl saying do the mission then quit. You do have the advantage of exp, etc. If you are lucky enough like me to have two Gcs then I suppose piping is ok. I use one GC to pipe with and the other to play. Second hand GCs these days only cost around £30, ($59) so you could always buy another one. I'm not condolling the overuse of the laser on a GC and the disposable world we live in these days. I'm just saying if you wear your GC out you can always buy another.

[Splash]

On 2008-04-13 00:35, Nitro_Vordex wrote:
You're using a one sided arguement. You're saying that piping is guaranteed, and the runs aren't. Piping in no way is a guarantee.
This proves you can't read.


The whole point of piping is to give a guarantee shot that one point, the monster that can change to a rare would become a rare.
I never said it was a true guarantee that you would see one in some number of pipes. I'm saying that you will be guaranteed to see one at some point in the piping process since that is what you are targeting and there are no other monsters in the room. Thus no Hildelt can become a Tollaw, etc. No matter what, one of the Hildelts will become a Hildetorr at some point in the piping process.

Runs have no guarantee that you would find one since there are loads of other monsters, particularly that many of them are not the target rare monster. Thus, there is no way, by definition of "effective", that runs can be effective at finding a rare monster targeted.


It merely increases your chances for doing less at the risk of your GC/Wii.
I already mentioned that.


Either way, you're really only hoping for a rare monster. I remember piping anddoing runs for an Pal Rappy for 3 hours, and I didn't get squat.
Fake in Yellow is better with runs since there is nothing but Rappies in there, as opposed to Forest of Sorrow where only some midst of the monsters are Hildelts.

[Nitro Vordex]

On 2008-04-13 11:33, Splash wrote:

On 2008-04-13 00:35, Nitro_Vordex wrote:
You're using a one sided arguement. You're saying that piping is guaranteed, and the runs aren't. Piping in no way is a guarantee.
This proves you can't read.
That was unnessesary.

The whole point of piping is to give a guarantee shot that one point, the monster that can change to a rare would become a rare.

I never said it was a true guarantee that you would see one in some number of pipes. I'm saying that you will be guaranteed to see one at some point in the piping process since that is what you are targeting and there are no other monsters in the room. Thus no Hildelt can become a Tollaw, etc. No matter what, one of the Hildelts will become a Hildetorr at some point in the piping process.I must have misread that, I apologize.


Runs have no guarantee that you would find one since there are loads of other monsters, particularly that many of them are not the target rare monster. Thus, there is no way, by definition of "effective", that runs can be effective at finding a rare monster targeted.
Have you forgotten we're still talking about running the quest?

It merely increases your chances for doing less at the risk of your GC/Wii.

I already mentioned that.Restating for those just tuning in on this debate. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif


Either way, you're really only hoping for a rare monster. I remember piping and doing runs for an Pal Rappy for 3 hours, and I didn't get squat.

Fake in Yellow is better with runs since there is nothing but Rappies in there, as opposed to Forest of Sorrow where only some midst of the monsters are Hildelts.

Still sucked either way.

We have our methods I suppose. Let's just leave it at that then. We've pointed out both sides of this, now it's up to other people to decide which to do.

For your information, I read way past college level, only 16. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Splash]

On 2008-04-13 14:14, Nitro_Vordex wrote:
Have you forgotten we're still talking about running the quest?
You still are not getting my point.

My point is, how does doing continuous runs of Forest of Sorrow make it "effective" when, by defintion, it is not? How is it considered adequate to finding the targeted Hildetorr when, as an example, it takes 100 runs to do so each of 10 minutes, when it could have been done in 100 pipes each 10 seconds long?


We have our methods I suppose. Let's just leave it at that then. We've pointed out both sides of this, now it's up to other people to decide which to do.
I didn't say I was in favor of piping. I'm debating on the point on what I said above: how are runs considered "effective" at finding a rare monster when they are not by defintion? You keep telling me that it wears down the GC/Wii, but that's absolutely irrevalant since that has nothing to do with how runs are considered effective at finding a rare monster.

EDIT: Spelling.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Splash on 2008-04-13 14:47 ]</font>

[Nitro Vordex]

On 2008-04-13 14:46, Splash wrote:

On 2008-04-13 14:14, Nitro_Vordex wrote:
Have you forgotten we're still talking about running the quest?
You still are not getting my point.

My point is, how does doing continuous runs of Forest of Sorrow make it "effective" when, by defintion, it is not? How is it considered adequate to finding the targeted Hildetorr when, as an example, it takes 100 runs to do so each of 10 minutes, when it could have been done in 100 pipes each 10 seconds long?


That's only an example though. sometimes piping can be inadequate. There's plently of Hildes in the quest to where you don't really have to pipe. I suppose what you're pretty much saying, it's not "effective" as you keep saying, it's just quicker.
Quicker isn't always "effective". You and I must have different views of effective, as the way I'm seeing is that your method is simply being quicker. The piping is good, but that's only for one room, with 5 Hildes, as opposed to how many Hildes in the whole quest? I would personally prefer runs, becaue you get exp for killing them, items they happen to drop, rare or not, ample time to keep raising your mag, able to produce more money and thus being able to save fluids/pipes, depending if your fleshie or 'droid.

Using your example, let's just see how "effective" it is.
Piping for Hildes: You get whatever exp and money (You could probably still raise your mag during this time) for killing in the beginning, then afterward you'll have stopped, because you can't kill anymore. You're simply wasting money, fluids, MAG feeding time, the laser in your GC/Wii, all for a quick fix, which is still quite possible not to get your rare. I understand the time factor, but the Cons far outweigh the pros.

Doing runs:you go through the entire quest, and quit and restart. Just for killing every Hilde(Saying you didn't get the rare of course) you got 20,708 exp for killing them all. Now, you say 100 runs?
Guess what, you got 2,070,800 exp, plus the amount of money you make and the mags you might have raised. With that paitence, you got a fantastic reward, even though you didn't get your rare.

Neither example got the rare, but the runs had more benfits even if you didn't get what you were looking for. The example you have, is just that, an example. It can't really be justified, because you can't actually say it happens like that all the time. It's randomly distributed, and both runs and pipes increase the chances.

Sure, the time factor is good and all, but if that and the rare is the only benefit, then I'd rather do the runs. I want to have fun playing the game, not continuously go back and forth between the ship and Forest, hoping the the Torr's fugly behind finally shows up.

[Splash]

On 2008-04-13 15:12, Nitro_Vordex wrote:
That's only an example though. sometimes piping can be inadequate. There's plently of Hildes in the quest to where you don't really have to pipe. I suppose what you're pretty much saying, it's not "effective" as you keep saying, it's just quicker.
Partially, that was just an implicit point. That's not my full point though.


Quicker isn't always "effective". You and I must have different views of effective, as the way I'm seeing is that your method is simply being quicker. The piping is good, but that's only for one room, with 5 Hildes, as opposed to how many Hildes in the whole quest? I would personally prefer runs, becaue you get exp for killing them, items they happen to drop, rare or not, ample time to keep raising your mag, able to produce more money and thus being able to save fluids/pipes, depending if your fleshie or 'droid.
You are still confused on the defintion of "effective". Look at it again:

1. adequate to accomplish a purpose; producing the intended or expected result:
Does piping accomplish a purpose? Yes, to find the Hildetorr. Is it adequate to accomplishing this purpose? Yes, because you are focusing on one monster only (Hildelt) as oppose to other monsters. Does it produce the intended or expected result? Yes, depending on the number of pipes, but the Hildetorr will appear at some point, no matter what.

Do runs accomplish a purpose? Yes, to find other rares while trying to find a Hildetorr at the same time. Is it adequate to accomplishing this purpose? Yes, if you are trying to find other rares but no if you have to go through slews of monsters in order to just find one Hildetorr. Does it produce the intended or expected result? No, because there isn't a focus on a Hildelt so the result is not expecting.



Using your example, let's just see how "effective" it is.
Piping for Hildes: You get whatever exp and money (You could probably still raise your mag during this time) for killing in the beginning, then afterward you'll have stopped, because you can't kill anymore.
You're simply wasting money, fluids, MAG feeding time, the laser in your GC/Wii, all for a quick fix, which is still quite possible not to get your rare. I understand the time factor, but the Cons far outweigh the pros.
Again, you bring these irrevalant portions up. Yes, these are negative parts of piping but how do those affect your chances at finding the Hildetorr? That is your primary goal: how does a GC wearing out, feeding mag, and wasting pipes have any revalance on trying to find a Hildetorr?




Doing runs:you go through the entire quest, and quit and restart. Just for killing every Hilde(Saying you didn't get the rare of course) you got 20,708 exp for killing them all. Now, you say 100 runs?
Guess what, you got 2,070,800 exp, plus the amount of money you make and the mags you might have raised. With that paitence, you got a fantastic reward, even though you didn't get your rare.
But how is that adequate to finding a Hildetorr? You still are not answering that question. So what if you get all of those benefits; you still failed to achieve your goal at finding a Hildetorr in that said amount of runs and you wasted about that much time with no success.



Neither example got the rare, but the runs had more benfits even if you didn't get what you were looking for.
Irrevalant. It does not support how adequate it is to finding a Hildetorr so it fails the definition of "effective".



The example you have, is just that, an example. It can't really be justified, because you can't actually say it happens like that all the time. It's randomly distributed, and both runs and pipes increase the chances.
Yes, hence example.



Sure, the time factor is good and all, but if that and the rare is the only benefit, then I'd rather do the runs. I want to have fun playing the game, not continuously go back and forth between the ship and Forest, hoping the the Torr's fugly behind finally shows up.
And again, you are "hoping" that it would show up at one of those runs, which have no guarantees that a Hildetorr would show up as expected. With piping, you can feel confident that at some point in the piping process, that one Hildelt would turn into a Hildetorr, which is an expected result.


Another way to see this is suppose hypothetically that a GC/Wii's laser can never wear off so you can pipe infinitely without worry. If you are trying to find a Hildetorr, which is still clearly a more effective way to do so?

[Nitro Vordex]

On 2008-04-13 16:05, Splash wrote:
[quote]On 2008-04-13 15:12, Nitro_Vordex wrote:
[quote]You and I must have different views of effective,
So I'm gonna cut all the crap talking about adaquate and effective.

how do those affect your chances at finding the Hildetorr? That is your primary goal: how does a GC wearing out, feeding mag, and wasting pipes have any revalance on trying to find a Hildetorr?
1/512 chance for a rare monster, decreased for Hildetorr due to lack of appearance. If you do runs, you get more appearances. Simple.


Sure, the time factor is good and all, but if that and the rare is the only benefit, then I'd rather do the runs. I want to have fun playing the game, not continuously go back and forth between the ship and Forest, hoping the the Torr's fugly behind finally shows up.

And again, you are "hoping" that it would show up at one of those runs, which have no guarantees that a Hildetorr would show up as expected. With piping, you can feel confident that at some point in the piping process, that one Hildelt would turn into a Hildetorr, which is an expected result. So you're saying if you do runs, you're not confident? Hell, I've done the piping thing for Hildes, and after about 2 hours, I wasn't very confident.



Another way to see this is suppose hypothetically that a GC/Wii's laser can never wear off so you can pipe infinitely without worry. If you are trying to find a Hildetorr, which is still clearly a more effective way to do so?
Runs. I'm sticking by that. More Hilde appearances. You keep saying "going through slews of monsters to get to a Hilde". You are going through Forest of Sorrow, no? IIRC, most, if not all, of the monsters in that quest are Hildes. So where you got the Tollaw from, I don't know.

[Kunithrayin]

lol as usual another topic where everyone argues there own opion saying it is correct or better when they are simply different

[Nitro Vordex]

On 2008-04-13 17:16, Kunithrayin wrote:
lol as usual another topic where everyone argues there own opion saying it is correct or better when they are simply different


We're actually comparing facts and statistics.

So lol yourself.

[Splash]

On 2008-04-13 16:37, Nitro_Vordex wrote:
1/512 chance for a rare monster, decreased for Hildetorr due to lack of appearance. If you do runs, you get more appearances. Simple.
No. Or will I need to do the math for you?

If each Hildelt that spawns have a chance at a Hildetorr, and each pipe resets spawns, that means for each pipe, "new" Hildelts appear.

So, using the example of 100 runs and 10 mins each/100 pipes and 10 seconds (about 0.2 mins) each we have:

(100 runs * 10 mins) = 10,000 mins used total
(100 runs * 16 Hildelts in Forest of Sorrow) = 1,600 Hildelts killed

Thus, in 10,000 minutes, you would have killed 1,600 Hildelts already.

(100 pipes * 0.2 mins) = 20 mins used total.
(100 pipes * 4 Hildelts used for piping) = 400 Hildelts total seen

Thus, in 20 mins, you would have seen 400 Hildelts.

To compare it with the amount of time used for runs, suppose we piped for 10,000 minutes. That is (10,000/20) = 500 times more minutes used for runs. Thus, it would take (100 pipes * 500) = 50,000 pipes to match up 10,000 minutes used.

So:

(50,000 pipes * 0.2 mins) = 10,000 mins used total
(50,000 pipes * 4 Hildelts) = 200,000 Hildelts seen.

Thus, in 10,000 minutes, you would have seen 200,000 Hildelts.

So your justification, in theory, that runs see more Hildelts is entirely false.

In reality, neither 100 runs nor 50,000 pipes is possible for a GC/Wii if done non-stop. However, if it is possible that a GC/Wii does not have laser problems, then piping is proof that it is more effective at finding a Hildetorr than doing runs.




So you're saying if you do runs, you're not confident? Hell, I've done the piping thing for Hildes, and after about 2 hours, I wasn't very confident.
Ok, I admit that the word confident was used incorrectly in that context. A better word would be "expected". If you pipe, you are expecting that creature to appear at some point thus you do not need to wait around for it to appear by doing continuous runs.




Runs. I'm sticking by that. More Hilde appearances. You keep saying "going through slews of monsters to get to a Hilde". You are going through Forest of Sorrow, no? IIRC, most, if not all, of the monsters in that quest are Hildes. So where you got the Tollaw from, I don't know.
We already established, by fact, that piping you can see more Hildelts than doing runs altogether. So your entire point about seeing more through runs is null.


EDIT: And also...


lol as usual another topic where everyone argues there own opion saying it is correct or better when they are simply different
Fail. I'm not debating how piping or doing runs is correct or not because we all know that doing runs is better for the GC/Wii. I'm debating that, in terms of seeing rare monsters, piping is more effective than doing runs.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Splash on 2008-04-13 17:38 ]</font>

[SC]

um....... ok. My Question was only what was the pipe trick and how does it work, so i could yget the Star Amplifer from Mr.Hildetorr so i could get my Twinkle Star......

Next thing i have some nice comments left, with advice, then the whole threat goes from debate to full blown arguement.

Now, things i have learnt from this.

1) Pipe trick will eventually show the torr, however at risk of my GC going to pot (ive had the thing going on i think 4/5 years)
2) Runs in some whay are more effective than piping, as i can get rares (not the one im after), Mag feeding, Exp and overall more better.
3) The Rare Monster rate is 1/512
4) Some people can actully leave advice, which is sincer
5) Some people can leave advice, which leads to an arguement.

WELL all in all, thank for your help, i eventully get the torr. and get my Amplifer. i shall post when i get it!

SC

[AlexCraig]

Best of luck to you. And I apologise for the argueing going on here. I didn't think that what I said would lead to this.

[Nitro Vordex]

On 2008-04-13 17:35, SC wrote:
Now, things i have learnt from this.

1) Pipe trick will eventually show the torr, however at risk of my GC going to pot (ive had the thing going on i think 4/5 years)
2) Runs in some whay are more effective than piping, as i can get rares (not the one im after), Mag feeding, Exp and overall more better.
3) The Rare Monster rate is 1/512
4) Some people can actully leave advice, which is sincer
5) Some people can leave advice, which leads to an arguement.


As long as you got what you're looking for, that's great. I apologize for this debate that came up. Merely defending my opinion. which won't change.

Oddly enough, I don't usually debate like this. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Aisha_Clan-Clan]

Good luck on finding one.

[Gabriel]

All things considered though, why not buy an extra gc? It can't be that expensive nowadays... I don't think EP1+2 still has that DC "play the whole game on the same dreamcast" thingie. Why not buy one just for the heck of it? This way you'll keep your console intact.
I remember a friend I had back then who was from Korea, he actually had two DC's, two tv sets and even different phonelines... And I'm talking about 1999-2000 here, when it was still kinda expensive to get a dc.

Oh, and...
Not trying to make the discussion longer, it is a matter of interpretation of facts.

Piping:
+ WAY Faster
- destroys your gc o.O
- no lvl up
- makes you spend a lot of money (you'll eventually have to stop so you can get more money... by taking full runs lol)

Full runs:

+ lvl up
+ money
+ rares and good items in general, increases your chance of killing that 28807th tollaw for the agito (Lord, when will it END?!).
- takes A LOT longer... I mean way longer

...
They both have advantages and disadvantages. IMHO it's easier to pipe IF you're only going for the rare monster. However, after finding the rare monster (provided you videogame is still working), you should go right back to taking full runs.
But that's just my opinion, it's up to you to decide which disadvantage you want to face: taking a lot longer to find the rare monster, or breaking your console.
The decision might be obvious to most, but people's opinions DO differ every once in a while.

This debate was heated, but it was also filled with FACTS, from both sides. Just check which one works best for you.

[Nitro Vordex]

Keep in mind though, it's still random, so either one could be "faster".

You could get a rare in your first run, or it might take hours.
You could get a rare in your first pipe, or, well, it might take hours.

Darn rares. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Gabriel]

Yes, that is true too... The luck factor. Guess I don't really have it.


...
Anyone have any real-life luck materials they can give out? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Nitro Vordex]

I wish. D:

[Splash]

On 2008-04-14 17:20, Gabriel wrote:
Piping:
+ WAY Faster
- destroys your gc o.O
- no lvl up
- makes you spend a lot of money (you'll eventually have to stop so you can get more money... by taking full runs lol)

Full runs:

+ lvl up
+ money
+ rares and good items in general, increases your chance of killing that 28807th tollaw for the agito (Lord, when will it END?!).
- takes A LOT longer... I mean way longer


IMHO it's easier to pipe IF you're only going for the rare monster.
OMFG, someone actually understands my point of the argument. Wow congrats, you deserve a cookie.

The others who were actually involve in the argument had no facts which could counter-argue my point and merely kept repeating the same thing over and over again which did not even support what they said (see my last post).

[Nitro Vordex]

=/

Simply had to post just to point that out I suppose. *shrugs*

[Ithildin]

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif I think if I had been a newcomer to these boards and I asked a simple question AND a full fledged arguement had ensued, I would have been put off PSOW for life. Good luck SC, keep at it and you WILL find one eventually.