preferred arm unit, again

[gryphonvii]

Okay so now I'm an acrotecher with a cati power, I recently tried a hard power charge and I noticed a small difference in attack power and since I can alternate between tech and melee I don't mind the pp loss. SO which is your preferred unit and for what class do you use it on?

[Dragwind]

I use a solid/knight on my WT because it gives me a decent atp boost, with a semi-needed ata boost. However, I use a hard power/charge on my fortegunner, especially with shotguns. The damage boost is pretty nice depending the weapon and PA you're using, and taking PP cost into account.

[Ronin1of47]

fortegunner and solid power s. unless im using killer shot i put on a save unit. my ata is so high i dont miss the 60 it takes away.

[Fanin]

solid / knight on my fF
cati / power on my AT
I would use SPS or cati power on my fG if have extra, but for now I use either solid / knight or bullet save.

[chaoskila]

mega power duh duh

[Eleina]

Cati power on fF
SPS on fG

[ljkkjlcm9]

solid/knight on my beast fighgunner
SPS on my human

THE JACKEL

[Kerry157]

I like cati/hit

[Sinue_v2]

Hard/Power Charge on my Newman WT. I went for all the ATP I could realistically afford/find. It currently has the largest Att boost of all the arm units - without the sacrifice to Accuracy or any other stat. All it does is increase Striking and Firearm PP usage 50%. But 10 photon charges are plenty enough to get through a mission, and a full stack of charges is a pittance now that Meseta drops have increased. Not to mention JA normal attacks regen PP at a fairly decent clip. I don't use firearms that much, and techs are unaffected.

Pretty surprised this unit isn't more popular.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2008-04-12 15:30 ]</font>

[Yusaku_Kudou]

HPC on my acrotecher since AT weapons last long. SPS for my newman.

[Thrash777]

I'm a fF, so I need as much ATA as I can get!

[Dragwind]

On 2008-04-12 15:28, Sinue_v2 wrote:
Hard/Power Charge on my Newman WT. I went for all the ATP I could realistically afford/find. It currently has the largest Att boost of all the arm units - without the sacrifice to Accuracy or any other stat. All it does is increase Striking and Firearm PP usage 50%. But 10 photon charges are plenty enough to get through a mission, and a full stack of charges is a pittance now that Meseta drops have increased. Not to mention JA normal attacks regen PP at a fairly decent clip. I don't use firearms that much, and techs are unaffected.

Pretty surprised this unit isn't more popular.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2008-04-12 15:30 ]</font>


I used to use it often on my WT as well for those very reasons. Only reason I switched to the Solid Knight was for the ata I was needing on recent whip/card/bow usage, but i'm cutting down on those again so I suppose I should switch back.

[DEM_CIG]

Solid/Power Knight on my Cast PT.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

SPS on my Beast AT, because it's probably the best arm unit until we get Red/Knight.

Solid/Knight on my Human PT, because, well, because I don't have another SPS.

[Zael]

HARD/HIT CHARGE

[darkante]

Cati/Power is my favorite unit. No negative attributes on it.
And i can live without 40 att that Hard Power Charge gives. Increased PP cost is no fun when you use machine guns. >.>

[Syl]

Use Cati/Power on my Caseal GT and Solid/Knight on my Beast fG

[mvffin]

2 Cati Power(newm AT and Cast FI)
2 Solid Knight(beast and lower lvl cast PT)

[Ithildin]

I use Cati/Power on my male human FG

[GreenArcher]

Hard Power Charge all the way

[Chris28]

Cati Skill pp Save on my ForteFighter Cast, its GRRRRRRRRRRRRRREAT!

[Dealer]

I use:

Cati / Hit on Male Beast Fortefighter
Cati / Power on Male Human Protranser
Hard / Power Charge on Male Newman Fortetecher and Female Cast Fortegunner

I can't understand people who effectively lower their accuracy by 20% to increase their attack power by 5%. If you get any zeros at all you're actually doing less damage and levelling your PAs more slowly.

[GreenArcher]

1100 or so base ATA on cast fortegunner. -80 ATA is nothing lol

[Starrz]

On 2008-04-13 14:42, Dealer wrote:
I use:

Cati / Hit on Male Beast Fortefighter
Cati / Power on Male Human Protranser
Hard / Power Charge on Male Newman Fortetecher and Female Cast Fortegunner

I can't understand people who effectively lower their accuracy by 20% to increase their attack power by 5%. If you get any zeros at all you're actually doing less damage and levelling your PAs more slowly.

I can't understand why people believe lowering your base ATA by 20% means you're lowering you hit rate by that much.

SPS lowers your hit rate by about 2%, depending.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I use a Solid Power S on my Human Acrofighter, and a Solid / Knight on my Female Newman Wartecher. I'd use something for my Beast and Male Newman, but I don't have any other arm units.

[Astarin]

Giga / Bullet PP Save (with Te / PP Generate) on my Guntecher;

Solid / Knight on my Protranser;

Haven't decided what my Wartecher will use (I think I've got Hard / Knight right now), and nothing on my Fortetecher (no arm slot).

[Dealer]

On 2008-04-13 16:25, Starrz wrote:

On 2008-04-13 14:42, Dealer wrote:
I use:

Cati / Hit on Male Beast Fortefighter
Cati / Power on Male Human Protranser
Hard / Power Charge on Male Newman Fortetecher and Female Cast Fortegunner

I can't understand people who effectively lower their accuracy by 20% to increase their attack power by 5%. If you get any zeros at all you're actually doing less damage and levelling your PAs more slowly.

I can't understand why people believe lowering your base ATA by 20% means you're lowering you hit rate by that much.

SPS lowers your hit rate by about 2%, depending.



I don't see how you could possibly come up with that figure of 2%. Even on Cast's with level 40 PAs I see zeros. And I'm sure in the algorythm to determine if you hit or miss and how much damage you do, it works in %'s (ie. damage = your accuracy / enemies evade * PA art used * weapon and element modifier*base ATP.)

Here are some real stats.

Male Beast Fortefighter Base Stats:
ATP 1821 ATA 429

Hard / Power Charge: +165 (+9.06%)
Solid / Power S: +140 ATP (+7.69%) - 80 ATA (-18.65%)
Cati / Power: +120 ATP (+6.35%)
Cati / Hit: + 90 ATA (+20.98%)

If you wear a Solid / Power S instead of a Cati / Hit, you are lowering your ATA by 39.63%!! That is so significant it's scary. By the amount of zeros you get in increasing your base ATP instead of ATA, you actually hit less and do less damage while levlling your own PAs more slowly. That is not smart - even if you are trying to be cheap or lazy at the expense of the group.

Male Cast Fortegunner Base Stats:
ATP 1355 ATA 1171
Hard / Power Charge: +165 (+12.18%)
Solid / Power S: +140 ATP (+10.33%) - 80 ATA (-6.83%)
Cati / Power: +120 ATP (+8.87%)

Here is where people chirp up the merits of a Solid / Power S. But it's not that good. By wearing a Solid / Power S over a Hard / Power Charge, you lower your attack AND ATA. Who cares about PP as fortegunner with the grinded guns out there? And don't say killer shot or some of the ultimate grenades - it's silly not to swap in a bullet/save for those. Conversely, if you really care about pp, a cati/power only lowers your ATP by 1.46% over a Solid / Power S, without lowering your ATA by 6.83%. That means with a Solid Power S you are missing more than an EXTRA 1 in 20 times to do 1.46% more damage per shot - in addition to what you were already missing! This is less damage over time. Keep in mind I also said I had a female fortegunner, where the ATA loss is even worse.

I completely understand not being able to afford the full selection of units. However, having all the units available, there isn't really a case for the Solid Power S.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dealer on 2008-04-13 18:30 ]</font>

[Starrz]

On 2008-04-13 18:28, Dealer wrote:

On 2008-04-13 16:25, Starrz wrote:

On 2008-04-13 14:42, Dealer wrote:



http://pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=164081&forum=22&7

Understand that lowering raw stats does not directly affect what you see. Lowering your accuracy by 18.65% does not mean you miss that much percent more. Every stat goes through modifiers.

The way Accuracy is calculated in the game makes it so that once your base ATA gets past a certain point, it does very little in increasing your hit rate.

After level 80 or so any race/class combination has enough ATA to be above 80% hit rate.

Click the link and you can find out why.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Lolya. And if you're a Cast Fortegunner, SPS lowers your ATA by an amount so minute that the overall affect to your hit rate will be like -0.05% or something just as trivial.

[Dealer]

Starrz, I appreciate backing up your opinion with some research, which is what is required. I read your link - that's the type of thing someone would have to do.

I hope you can appreciate that we postulated basically the same formula for miss rate, just with the constants rearranged somewhat. That and you brought it up 4 months earlier.

While I think your reasoning is good and I'm sure the miss rate involves probabilities and percents, I don't think you can conclude your formula is THE correct one. I would be interested however to see someone's "data" on miss rates now that we formally have level 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 level buffs. I think that someone would have to use basically your method, over different race / class / level combos on different enemies. For statistical significance, I think we'd need alot bigger sample sizes - not to discount your impressive effort.

But I still think Fortegunners should be using HPC's, except for machine guns (cati / power) and killer shot / grenades (bullet / save).(had to sneak that in there)

Oops, didn't see Fuzzy's Lolya defense - obviously the case is closed.

[Starrz]

No matter what I do, or how many samples I provide, people will always believe what they want to believe.

Even if I posted a video of 10000 shots fired and it being exactly the hit rate the formula expects, people will still not believe me.

Anyways, if you noticed in my topic, I used all 4 races at different levels, using different weapons, using different PAs, on different enemies, with different buffs. I've covered everything I could think of in order to show you that those variables won't change the formula's accuracy.

Also, it's not my formula. It's someone else's. I'm just trying to prove it to everyone.

That said, I think HPC is the best unit for FG, and SPS for everyone else.

[MountainLynx]

I'm using SPS on a Female Cast Fortefighter and loving it.

[KingIronfox]

Solid / Power S, Definitely!

[Miyoko]

Just used SPS on a Lv59 fT against Lv100 mobs (Awoken Serpent S), using a bow for those pesky enemies I want to keep as much distance as possible from ... And... It actually wasn't bad. At all. XD

[JarinKail]

SPS hands down. I use it on my CAST fG and I miss just as many shots as I would without it.

None.

[Gen2000]

Hard/Power Charge on Fortegunner - Guns have enough PP anyways combined with their reduced PP use I no trouble getting through even the longest missions with it.

Solid/Power S for any other class.

[amtalx]

SPS unless I'm using KS, in which case I'll use a bullet save.

[Danny_Dark]

Solid/Knight and Cati/Power...