Masterforce vs Mastergunner vs Masterfighter

[ShadoTboner]

I'm hearing a lot about the masterforce becoming worthless since Masterfighter can use Tornado Dance to move quicker and gunner because of the current 45% to lasers, can any current Masterforces explain why the class is or isnt worthless?

[RAGNAGELPPOD]

I take it you mean worthless at coming in first place for some kind of speed run competition? Speed isn't everything; the rewards don't get better or worse for finishing a run in a certain time frame, at least to my understanding.

[Zorafim]

Fortegunners are worthless because Fortefighter do more damage. Is that what you're saying?

Just pick the one you like, it really shouldn't matter if one's better than another.

[chaoskila]

oki when you see master forces using 41 zonde
[take a second and imagine 31 zonde... then double that]
lets see who is useless

[Legendria]

41 Zonde/Megid owns the living shit out of any laser.

[RemiusTA]

On 2008-04-27 16:15, ShadoTboner wrote:
I'm hearing a lot about the masterforce becoming worthless since Masterfighter can use Tornado Dance to move quicker and gunner because of the current 45% to lasers, can any current Masterforces explain why the class is or isnt worthless?



What the fuck kind of observation is that

[Legendria]

On 2008-04-27 16:15, ShadoTboner wrote:
masterforce becoming worthless since Masterfighter can use Tornado Dance to move quicker


I just caught that.

I think you just made this up, honestly. That makes zero sense, as they don't relate to each other in any way whatsoever.

[tihoa]

i think masterforce is quite useless based on all the information on it so far. the main reason is that they only have lvl 10 support techs. if they had lvl 30 support techs (and thus evening out with all of the other techer classes) it would be well worth it. as long as they only have lvl 10 support techs, they're probably not going to be all that useful. it still doesn't make sense why arcotechers are the only ones with lvl 50 skills (support techs) without any huge penalty like the master classes.

masterfighter is definitely strong but they lack handguns. if you have to fight the dimmagolus (spelling?), they would be nearly useless in that situation until someone can bring it down for the masterfighter to attack it.

mastergunner from what i've seen is pretty good. they shoot much faster but they need to carry around photon charges all the time. if they some how run out, they basically become useless. no pp = no ammo = can't deal damage.

[Kanore]

They all sound pretty bad. If anything, I'd pick the Masterfighter.

fG's already bad, and that level 10 support thing for Masterforces made me laugh for a good 5 minutes.

[Umberger]

On 2008-04-27 16:59, Legendria wrote:

On 2008-04-27 16:15, ShadoTboner wrote:
masterforce becoming worthless since Masterfighter can use Tornado Dance to move quicker


I just caught that.

I think you just made this up, honestly. That makes zero sense, as they don't relate to each other in any way whatsoever.



No, he's not making anything up. Fighmaster has Tornado Dance, and using Tornado Dance gets from point A to point B faster than regular walking.

[ThaiSoup]

On 2008-04-27 19:18, Umberger wrote:

On 2008-04-27 16:59, Legendria wrote:

On 2008-04-27 16:15, ShadoTboner wrote:
masterforce becoming worthless since Masterfighter can use Tornado Dance to move quicker


I just caught that.

I think you just made this up, honestly. That makes zero sense, as they don't relate to each other in any way whatsoever.



No, he's not making anything up. Fighmaster has Tornado Dance, and using Tornado Dance gets from point A to point B faster than regular walking.


lol So from that, Fighgunner > Fortefighter?

[Egg99]

Jesus you people knitpick alot.

All the poor guy is asking for is someone JP-side to compare the classes in their opinion, and everyone keeps trying to be a smartass or make sub-points or avoid the topic entirely. Brutal... >.>

[Dragwind]

Oh man. With returning old and new players, breeds more idiocy. Everything you heard was a LIE. A bloody LIE. Now go play the game.

[KiiLoo]

On 2008-04-27 16:40, chaoskila wrote:
oki when you see master forces using 41 zonde
[take a second and imagine 31 zonde... then double that]
lets see who is useless




Well to tell you that damage is not based on how "big" your PA's are. lol

[Edgard]

Just play any class that you feel like playing. I really don't care if everyone thinks masterforce is useless. Casting lv 41+ spells seems way more fun than using dus majarra over and over.

[mvffin]

I think I'll like the gunner myself. Trying hard for that spread needle to complete me. = )

shotguns are SO powerful. lasers and rifles just got a boost. and twin handguns are.... well, shotguns are NICE

[KiteWolfwood]

On 2008-04-27 17:07, tihoa wrote:
i think masterforce is quite useless based on all the information on it so far. the main reason is that they only have lvl 10 support techs. if they had lvl 30 support techs (and thus evening out with all of the other techer classes) it would be well worth it. as long as they only have lvl 10 support techs, they're probably not going to be all that useful. it still doesn't make sense why arcotechers are the only ones with lvl 50 skills (support techs) without any huge penalty like the master classes.


Well except for the fact that buffs do not stack so what would be the point of a Masterforce have higher supports when you have a AF to cast 50 buffs for your whole group.

If we are talking about a solo situation then Masterforce misses out on buffs but 50 techs + higher casting speed might even things out to what a AT or FT with buffs can do.

[SonicTMP]

It makes when you break it down into the basics

Melee
Ranged
Magic
Healing/support

THe master classes are all gogin to be heavy damage dealers. So thus thet get some restrictions.
Acrotechers won't have the dmage out put, they just up everyone elses and keeps the party safer. So thus they get don't get the same restrictions.

Seriously any of the master classes can probabyl destroy stuff solo. Acro is going to be relying heavily on the buffs/debuffs or supporting a party.

As for the tornado dance for movement comment. Most retarded thing I've ever heard. The blocks are already so small, what do you need a movement buff for?

[MSAksion]

Anyone laughing at a Masterforce support i have three statements;

1) Get an AT, FT, GT or even a WT to buff you.
2) Every second it takes to heal you is a second you could have TRIMATED. Dont rely on the team force to keep you alive.
3) Every second it takes to heal you is a second i could have thrown another FOIE.

Healing a Hunter who is Dus Majarra-ing all over... or the Fortegunner lone sniper waay on the other side of the room is Counter-productive to a Team Artillery user known as the Force. We are way more useful killing squads than healing friends.

Dead monsters cannot hurt my friends hehe.

[Emblem00]

On 2008-04-28 01:04, MSAksion wrote:
Anyone laughing at a Masterforce support i have three statements;

1) Get an AT, FT, GT or even a WT to buff you.
2) Every second it takes to heal you is a second you could have TRIMATED. Dont rely on the team force to keep you alive.
3) Every second it takes to heal you is a second i could have thrown another FOIE.

Healing a Hunter who is Dus Majarra-ing all over... or the Fortegunner lone sniper waay on the other side of the room is Counter-productive to a Team Artillery user known as the Force. We are way more useful killing squads than healing friends.

Dead monsters cannot hurt my friends hehe.

A very good point.

[Kismet]

In MY opinion, Mastergunner > Masterforce > Fighmaster ONLY in terms of USEFULNESS. As far as damage dealing, MF and FM are obviously first. MF and FM just have what AT and AF SHOULD have had, but Sega wanted to be stupid and make the Acro classes one-handed only.

Basically you become MF if you ONLY care about casting time and want to disregard buffs/potency of support, FM if you want to use DSs and Axes faster (which is stupid and goes besides the point, since axes are supposed to be slow ANYways), and MG is the only class that makes sense to bring to the table because it's like the 'Acrogunner' that never/couldn't exist(ed) minus grenades (which sucks).

So going master is worthless when you compare them master classes to the forte and acro equivalents. In fact, there is nothing 'master' about them at all. <_<

[Thrash777]

Sheesh, this is a bit heated!

If you're unsure, play each one and decide yourself.
They are different styles;
Up close, big swords, high damage and defense, but get bashed around.
From afar, huge guns, stand still, away from fray.
All around, magic and casting, support and elemental destruction, looks pretty, HEALS!

[DavidNel]

"We didn't start the fire...."

But really, all the master classes have their uses. I love MFs because they do lol big damage to a lot of enemies. Same with MFi. Lastly MG distract the enimies very well, and the rifle knock-back is a big plus.

[Kanore]

3) Every second it takes to heal you is a second i could have thrown another FOIE.

Saber in one hand, Zalure/Giresta Madoog on the other.

[Hrith]

Masterforces cannot really equip sabers.

Lv10 Resta on Masterforces will have crappy range, even if the amount of HP restored should still be decent at Lv140/20.

I think Masterforces should be played like a support-less class, like Mastergunner or Fighmaster, for instance. Use Megistarides, use Trimates, use Antimates, you get the drift.

As for damage, Masterforce will suck, obviously, so in summary, all the class can do is suck.

[Inazuma]

going by the OP's logic, all types are worthless except fighmaster. the other types dont kill as fast overall.
but the way i see it, there are 5 types. the 3 masters for blade, gun and tech damage. PT for traps and AT for support. any other type feels crappy to me.

its funny to hear you guys saying the master types suck. its like hearing someone say that force is better than fortechter. the master types are all extremely good and easily beat the forte types. i play as MF and its so much better than FT. the only reason someone should ever play FT is to get the 10 levels required for MF.

[KiiLoo]

well maybe dus majjara owns

[Kismet]

[spoiler-box]Screw the other master types. There should be a Mastertranser. Sounds sexy, and would destroy everything. End of story. ;3[/spoiler-box]

On a more SERIOUS note, they're all probably just as useful as they are useless. It just gives the forte-lovers/hybrid-haters something to do.

[Darius_Drake]

I think that each of these master classes can be useless against the wrong enemy. Like a previous poster said, imagine a fighmaster fighting a Dimmagolus. That would be a joke. Each of these classes have an overpowered offense in one sense, but each class also seems to have a fatal flaw as well. This seems to make it a benefit for those that choose these classes to join up with others that have other skills to make efficient runs. In this it makes these master classes a benefit to those who are running with them and vice versa.

[ankokujin]

As someone who's actually played Masterforce, let me say they are far from worthless! They're a lot more like the glass cannons you'd expect from a normal MMORPG, which replaces the Fortecher since they got improved HP. The main reason is because S ranks are INCREDIBLY expensive to try and synth, and therefore get high percentages of. So you're stuck with basic S rank armor unless you have gobs of money, and even then. BUT the damage output is so worth it. And I think a lot of people are forgetting how for techs, levels mean EVERYTHING! Just try hitting something with a level 1 Ramegid as compared to a level 41 version. It's sick. And Masterforces are fast. Honestly as long as you don't mind making support an emergencies only task they're a great class. And I assume the same applies to the other Master classes.

So basically, Master classes are AWESOME, but highly specialized. And arguably best left for later levels where you have opportunities to find and sell stuff to make decent armor. As I was intended I believe.

Oh, and for those who still doubt their efficiency, let's not forget that many spells get SE boosts at 41. Nuff said. Can we say damage AND SE application? That's something your basic hunter can't do.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ankokujin on 2008-04-28 15:36 ]</font>

[Hrith]

On 2008-04-28 14:05, Darius_Drake wrote:
I think that each of these master classes can be useless against the wrong enemy. Like a previous poster said, imagine a fighmaster fighting a Dimmagolus. That would be a joke.Actually, most Fortefighters do not even carry a handgun for that boss. Just wait until it lands and nail him with a JA Anga Jabroga, it'll kill the boss in a few hits, and the damage a handgun with Plasma Hit would have added makes no difference in the time it takes to kill the boss. So Fighmaster with increased speed for skills will kill the boss even faster (less chance that Dimmagolus flies away before Anga Jaborga hits it).

Maybe when we get S3 and up difficulties, Dimmagolus may become a problem, but right now, Desert Terror S2 Dimmagolus is Lv110, and Lv130/20 Fortefighters (or Fighmasters) destroy it.

[KiiLoo]

On 2008-04-29 03:52, Hrith wrote:
Just wait until it lands and nail him with a JA Anga Jabroga, it'll kill the boss in a few hits, and the damage a handgun with Plasma Hit would have added makes no difference in the time it takes to kill the boss. So Fighmaster with increased speed for skills will kill the boss even faster (less chance that Dimmagolus flies away before Anga Jaborga hits it).




yeah i hope you have seen the videos of FM clearing solo True Darkness in just over 3 mins.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KiiLoo on 2008-04-29 11:21 ]</font>

[Hrith]

Dark Satellite?

I have seen the video of FM clearing True Darkness in 3:59 minutes (which appears as "3" in-game, but is not actually 3 minutes at all).

[Drowsii]

On 2008-04-29 10:43, Hrith wrote:
Dark Satellite?

I have seen the video of FM clearing True Darkness in 3:59 minutes (which appears as "3" in- , but is not actually 3 minutes at all).



Who said Dark Satllite?....Kiiloo said True Darkness...can u read? But anways.....TECHERS ftw!

[Umberger]

On 2008-04-29 11:22, Drowsii wrote:


Who said Dark Satllite?....Kiiloo said True Darkness...can u read?



He also edited his post after Hrith had posted, and before you had...therefore you only saw the edited one, which he did indeed type "True Darkness" in.

[fayt6]

im going to have to say gunmaster or fightmaster cuz i like guns n fighting but techs not so much =(

[Gen2000]

Only thing really holding back offensive Fortetechers was speed and bosses that aren't lightining...they already have some of the best overall mob damaging moves in the game but even with a Har/Quick is slow as fawk when casting so nearly every other class outdamages them still.

Masterforce fixes the speed problem. They still will suck vs. nearly every boss though.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gen2000 on 2008-04-29 15:08 ]</font>

[KiiLoo]

On 2008-04-29 12:04, Umberger wrote:

On 2008-04-29 11:22, Drowsii wrote:


Who said Dark Satllite?....Kiiloo said True Darkness...can u read?



He also edited his post after Hrith had posted, and before you had...therefore you only saw the edited one, which he did indeed type "True Darkness" in.




ok suuuuuree whatever you say... some people just cant admit mistakes

[MrNomad]

FighMaster will be the "Fighgunner" of AoI, and GunMaster will cause a lot of ranger classes outside of fG to be upset over another powered up ranger class. MasterForce is quite lol. "Lolz, I can do 200 more dmg with foie than a fT, and.." Oh noes, he got killed by vahras while trying to heal the party with their wussy 10 lvl resta. Because doing 50 extra dmg with the weakest attacks in game are worth giving up support! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Zorafim]

Actually, it's more like doing the same amount of damage as a masterforce in 2/3 the time, while not giving a damn about the party. You know, kind of like how fortefighter is.

[Inazuma]

On 2008-04-29 21:24, MrNomad wrote:
FighMaster will be the "Fighgunner" of AoI, and GunMaster will cause a lot of ranger classes outside of fG to be upset over another powered up ranger class. MasterForce is quite lol. "Lolz, I can do 200 more dmg with foie than a fT, and.." Oh noes, he got killed by vahras while trying to heal the party with their wussy 10 lvl resta. Because doing 50 extra dmg with the weakest attacks in game are worth giving up support! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



MF is much better than you are thinking. a pack of vahras would be completely slaughtered before they can even get close to the MF. radeega from a madoog would hit em so fast they wont be able to move.

surrounded by vahras? gideega from madoog would molest em so fast they wont be able to attack.

MF is an offensive force w/ the worst defense in the game. the mighty hunter should be able to survive w/o their help, right? (^_^)

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-04-30 11:40, Inazuma wrote:
MF is much better than you are thinking. a pack of vahras would be completely slaughtered before they can even get close to the MF. radeega from a madoog would hit em so fast they wont be able to move.


Exactly... IN BIZARRO WORLD WHERE TECHERS USE AOE AND ELEMENT. Here's how it really goes down:

*vahras spawn and rush the techer*
DIGA! (crits)
fap fap fap fap fap
*dies*

Unless it's only one vahra. That situation apparently has GIZONDE written all over it in the Techer Play Book.

[Inazuma]

yea, unfortunately most forces are very poor players. its true on jp ver as well. im not talking about equip or tech levels, although thats part of it. they make poor choices of techs to use and/or get killed often. but thats how its always been. pso was no exception. players didnt use the correct weapon or merge for the tech they were casting.

[Mio]

It reminds me people complaining about the forte and hybrid classes when they where released, after few months of basic jobs.

Everything said by Midori (Why my katakana doesn't display in this forum, while it does on your signature?) is totally right, especially the statement about the 5 classes.

I guess SEGA should release an improved version of the three hybrids as well to compare them. (I mean, an alternative fighunner, guntecher and wartecher)


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mio on 2008-04-30 16:53 ]</font>

[Zorafim]

I'm speculating that acromaster will be the hybrid master class. Both acro classes are pretty much hybrids, and mixing the two will just create even more hybridization.
It's at least a melee/support hybrid.

[Genoa]

Your precious master class stats at lvl.20 compared to it's Forte:
-=Fighmaster=- (Fortefighter)
HP: 150%(165%) ATP: 168%(185%) ATA: 138%(124%) TP: 30%(30%) DFP: 166%(180%) EVP: 20%(50%) MST: 135%(86%) STA: 80%(100%)

-=Gunmaster=- (Fortegunner)
HP: 120%(124%) ATP: 168%(140%) ATA: 250%(230%) TP: 30%(75%) DFP: 166%(120%) EVP: 20%(140%) MST: 135%(86%) STA: 80%(125%)

-=Masterforce=- (Fortetecher)
HP: 85%(112%) ATP: 50%(70%) ATA: 50%(80%) TP: 152%(170%) DFP: 100%(80%) EVP: 100%(200%) MST: 254%(245%) STA: 80%(100%)

Master Classes, no racial bonus', which I think will be cool for my ideal Beast Gunmaster.

A little comparison from your Forte to your Master...
Forte classes get a +25% PP regen per generate for their respective weapon type. They also have a -20% PP Consumption cost.
However, Master classes get increased attack/casting speeds as an Acro class would. Downside, no bonus' regardless of race and PP consumption is INCREASED by +30% for FM and +20% for GM and MF. Master Classes also do not receive a +25% PP regen per generate towards their respective weapon type. And as most of you know, Master Classes can ONLY use S ranks (except for slot units)

SO for all those people thinking Master classes will make other classes obsolete, you're wrong <___> They're definitely not going to suck, but they're not going to replace other jobs. Especially seeing how Master Force ONLY gets lvl.10 Support Techs

EDIT: Actually, I wanted to say more about the Master Classes compared to the other classes, but there's just too much to type. I made a little guide, if you're willing to download it <_> I did it in Notepad.
http://www.mediafire.com/?zomzigsoxtn

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MegamanX on 2008-05-01 00:15 ]</font>

[Zorafim]

On 2008-05-01 00:06, MegamanX wrote:
SO for all those people thinking Master classes will make other classes obsolete, you're wrong <___>



Wow, you sure showed those four people.

[Genoa]

On 2008-05-01 00:27, Zorafim wrote:

On 2008-05-01 00:06, MegamanX wrote:
SO for all those people thinking Master classes will make other classes obsolete, you're wrong <___>



Wow, you sure showed those four people.


... I don't think I understand your reply... at all >_>
I made a very general; non-direct statement. But whatever.
You can tell when people start saying "this class is better than this class" when the only thing they compare is offensive qualities.
Everyone is aware of how much a MF is going to rape things. But let me give you 2 good reasons why MF's will be useless support (not saying that it should even be considered a support class)
1. lvl.10 support techs <_> you better be mighty close to your allies
2. How many techers do you think are actually going to stop their nuking parade to heal you when they have to run up close to you. And MAYBE, just maybe you'll get a MF who would buff, but why buff when you can pop steroids for a higher effect.

Very limited Weapon selection (not only limited towards a specific weapon type, but limited in that genre), PP consumption and regen, inability to use non-s ranks, decent statistical differences...
These classes are NOT going to put the others to shame. If anything, it's just another class with it's own VERY unique features, making it just a rival to the others.
So yes Zorafim... whoever those 4 people are >_> consider them "showed" ...

[relentless]

On 2008-05-01 00:44, MegamanX wrote:
Everyone is aware of how much a MF is going to rape things. But let me give you 2 good reasons why MF's will be useless support (not saying that it should even be considered a support class)
1. lvl.10 support techs <_> you better be mighty close to your allies
2. How many techers do you think are actually going to stop their nuking parade to heal you when they have to run up close to you. And MAYBE, just maybe you'll get a MF who would buff, but why buff when you can pop steroids for a higher effect.

Very limited Weapon selection (not only limited towards a specific weapon type, but limited in that genre), PP consumption and regen, inability to use non-s ranks, decent statistical differences...
These classes are NOT going to put the others to shame. If anything, it's just another class with it's own VERY unique features, making it just a rival to the others.
So yes Zorafim... whoever those 4 people are >_> consider them "showed" ...


You say that they'll be useless at support yet say they're not even considered as one which then shouldn't be a matter for them to suck at buffs'n stuff. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif
1. No. Are you saying that they need to be close because they only have lvl 10 support TECHs? Then no.
2. Yeah, well.. again, even if an MF in my party would buff, I'd just use your "steroids", that's normal in my eyes. Actually, I'm planning on playing an MF in the future myself and will only use those steroids, my buffs then can collect dust if they want to. Dunno what's so bad about that, and I don't think everyone keeps assuming that they will have lvl 30+ buffs in their party anyways.

Limited?
Compared to fT, the only disadvantage may be that they don't have Cards and Bows to use, but really, they may be limited in general, but all Master-classes are like this. They just specialize in their own abilites. MF TECHs, GM Bullets, FM Skills only. That's what's Master-classes about.
TECHs is all we need for the MOST part anyways, so yeah.
If you're talking about that FM's are limited, then you got a point though. lol http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif
PP consumption won't be a problem, some TECHs already received a PP reduction iirc. And well, S ranks, especially grinded Force S ranks do have enough PP I assume, and using one or two (more) PP charges won't hurt, will it?
I don't agree with people who say that only the people with the highest and best gear will be able to go Master. S ranks in general aren't that rare, so even with Halarods as MF you'd do fine imo.
The speed and high lvl PA's and what not make up for that stat difference, it's not all about stats as well.
You're right that it won't push the others to shame, but I say they'll be much more popular than the others in general.
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Sorry to have bugged in, but it seemed to me that you were saying that MF's won't b as great as "everyone" says, I'm disagreeing with that. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SeKaI on 2008-05-01 06:06 ]</font>

[Genoa]

Oh I agree with you on the fact that these classes are going to be great. Yes, they will be more popular simply because they're "Master" classes and attack faster. The Acrotecher will still be incredibly important. The Fortetecher will still have more ranged options, way better support, and with the exception of a few MST points... more of a statistical advantage.

That is the point I was trying to make. I'm not trying to put the master classes down, but too many people worshiping the idea of these omgmasterclasses.

[Legendria]

Comparing MF to FT, FT will definetly get phased out.

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-04-30 18:43, Zorafim wrote:
I'm speculating that acromaster will be the hybrid master class. Both acro classes are pretty much hybrids, and mixing the two will just create even more hybridization.
It's at least a melee/support hybrid.


The Acro jobs have the main advantage of Master types already, with lv50 support techniques AcroTecher has both. It seems redundant to do one for them.

Unless it's an AF/PT hybrid?
lv40 skills, lv40 bullets
Bow, Grenade, Knuckle, maybe Handgun + Saber?
EX traps

[Hrith]

On 2008-05-01 08:02, Legendria wrote:
Comparing MF to FT, FT will definetly get phased out.Low damage is low damage, I'd rather have Lv40 support to be of some use to the team.

I'd say FT is better, because MF is just "LOL I BLIND YOU" and low damage =/

[MSAksion]

On 2008-05-01 08:02, Legendria wrote:
Comparing MF to FT, FT will definetly get phased out.

OH HELL. Not this again. ForteTecher will not go away. Level 40 tech and level 40 support AND longbow fire support for flying monsters - you technically dont need any other TECHER.

1st place MasterTECHER - 6 Rods and 24 spells. No buffs or debuffs means you can have up to 4 attack spells on each Rod in all 6 elements. Access to all 34 spells right there makes the MF the best of the 3.

But what is the point of a Madoog or a Wand IF they have built in speed and the lack of a Gun or a Saber? A one handed weapon? If youre a master techer you only need 6 RODs and all 27 spells.

2nd place - MasterGunner is 2nd since guns have 8 types of bullets - 6 elemental bullets with their 6 status attacks and add each gun's 2 special attacks.

3rd & last place - The MasterHunter = SIGH.
Axe - Anga Ja-Broken.
Spear - Dus majarra as if you thought otherwise.
Broadsword - Spin Break for aerial targets and low pp consumption. Gravity sucks PP and Tornado - just use Absolute Dance for more AOE.
doubleSaber - Absolute or Tornado Dance.

That is what every MH palette will look like.

[relentless]

On 2008-05-01 11:04, MSAksion wrote:

On 2008-05-01 08:02, Legendria wrote:
Comparing MF to FT, FT will definetly get phased out.

1st place MasterTECHER - 6 Rods and 24 spells. No buffs or debuffs means you can have up to 4 attack spells on each Rod in all 6 elements. Access to all 34 spells right there makes the MF the best of the 3.

But what is the point of a Madoog or a Wand IF they have built in speed and the lack of a Gun or a Saber? A one handed weapon? If youre a master techer you only need 6 RODs and all 27 spells.


What's this about 1st, 2nd and 3rd? <_<
Are you saying that MF is in general better than FM just because of the more vast variety?
Please explain as I'm curious about what you mean. lol

What the point of a Madoog or Wand is if MF is built in speed already? Simple answer, even more speed. lol
No, I don't think you ONLY needs 6 rods and all 27 spells. o.o
Imo it's not all about rods like you're trying to tell us here.
Look here, this is what my perfect palette would look like (posted before):

Psycho Wand - 12% elemental boost mainly used for Nos and Dam-TECHs
Pushan - attack TECHs
Pushan - " "
Pushan - " "
Pushan - " "
Pushan + Tesbra - " " + Reverser for certain SE situations (CAN be better than Sols but depends) and Giresta for people without Scapes, or cast it in situations where you know that you're about to get hit and then get healed again immediately with a cause of lvl 1 regen (not like you always have high lvl regen around you so might as well)

I think because MF positions themsleves into the speed, I'd totally take advantage of it and use it to its fullest.

[Inazuma]

sekai knows her stuff. thats pretty much the ideal palette for MF. the only reason MF should use pwand is for hold techs or to conserve pp.

[Zorafim]

On 2008-05-01 00:44, MegamanX wrote:
... I don't think I understand your reply... at all >_>


The advantages to master classes are very well hidden compared to their flaws. Everyone knows that masterforces will have to almost completely give up supporting, that fighmasters will have to give up their ranged combat, that gunmasters will, um... Well, gunmasters are just awesome.
Basically, this "master classes are awesome!" is a retaliation of what happened when we found out the information of master classes. Everyone started off seeing how much they had to sacrifice to become a master class, and were instantly turned off. It was only when we saw how quickly they attacked, and how quickly they could take care of mobs solo, that we started praising the class.

So, yeah, only a total of four people actually believe they can get away with being a master class while still playing exactly like their forte class. I'm sure the rest of us know that the transition to master will take some getting used to.
I have to hurry up and hunt that cati/skill save...

[Genoa]

I still don't think some people are realizing that because of their incredible supremacy in such LIMITED areas gives them no versatility, making them horrible in certain situations. HOWEVER, in the party with someone with more versatility, or at least someone who's forte is support, such as all non-master techers and PT's, even certain ranger classes... can help the party.

I understand there's a big sacrifice for a BIG advantage, but it just gives you an advantage to the situations that see them fit. Which mean, not all situations will be nearly as simple as before.
Of course, most people will be playing the omgsoeasy missions like... well, anything that deals with a Dragon that rolls over when you enter the boss warp. So perhaps most of us will never see the master classes struggle <__>.

[Zorafim]

I don't know about you, but as Fortefighter, I hardly use anything other than my melee attacks. For times when I need something else, I'll just switch to another job or let another party member deal with it.

[Genoa]

I use the hell out of my B'duki Boa (well, now replaced with Ruby Bullet) on my Fortefighter in many situations. I'll have a slicer or saber in the other hand (again, depending on situation) a quick knockdown PA with melee hand, then fire my handgun while simultaneously moving back into a safer position.
Aerial enemies can be a pain without a handgun. And why NOT use a handgun on a Fortefighter? Their ATP utilizes a handgun better than most Fortegunners use a freakin Rifle <_____>

FM: You loose your ranged combat (slicer and handgun), you loose the ability to use any one-handed weapon (which doesn't matter since you can't use a gun), Your choice of photon art skills for various situations are limited within 4 weapons. However your increased attack speed (especially with those slow weapons you get to choose from) will compensate for plenty of situations.

GM: You loose your melee combat (slicer, dagger, spear), you loose your one-handed weapons (crossbow strafing and machinegun strafing... however you DO you get your Twin Handguns for when you need mobility and good power) You loose your freakin Grenade Launcher D: You now only have your Shotgun for hitting multiple body parts on an enemy, but it's based off of your linear-arc-like-range (had no idea how to say that any better) of attack, therefore, if you're fighting a very large enemy like a boss, you probably WON'T hit all it's body parts. AND, for shotty to stack damage onto a target you have to get close and personal. However, the attack speed increase and lvl.50 bullets will still compensate for a lot of situations.

MF: No melee OR ranged damage from your ATP. ATP? What's that? Why even have it? >___> Not a real big loss for most techers anyways. You're a Master at TECHING and nothing else.
Health? lulz, you have no health. The basic Force class is laughing at you. TP still being won by the infamous Fortetecher. Yet they give you access to all casting weapons... Why? I'm not sure. I think Rods alone would be fair, however, the fact you can ONLY use S-ranks would be a pain ESPECIALLY for non-newms because the only really abundant S-rank rod is the Halarod.
Your ability to cast faster combined with your lack of PP regen bonus AND higher PP consumption .... AND having higher level techs that will need more PP means you will thrive off of Photon Charges. You will become a full-time slave to the item shop D: But that's ok right? I mean who's not rolling in meseta... >_>
The only stat you really have on any other class is your MST. However, your lack of HP makes the Fortetecher STILL a better choice at taking tech damage from enemies. Your evasion is cut half of that of Fortetecher. But it's ok... hopefully you will kill everything before it reaches you.

NOW, I hope after explaining not only the cons but some PRO'S of the Master Classes that nobody will say I'm trying to break down the idea of Master Classes joining the Brawl D:

[Zorafim]

You forgot to mention the five minute solo runs.

[mvffin]

On 2008-05-01 11:04, MSAksion wrote:

On 2008-05-01 08:02, Legendria wrote:
Comparing MF to FT, FT will definetly get phased out.

OH HELL. Not this again. ForteTecher will not go away. Level 40 tech and level 40 support AND longbow fire support for flying monsters - you technically dont need any other TECHER.

1st place MasterTECHER - 6 Rods and 24 spells. No buffs or debuffs means you can have up to 4 attack spells on each Rod in all 6 elements. Access to all 34 spells right there makes the MF the best of the 3.

But what is the point of a Madoog or a Wand IF they have built in speed and the lack of a Gun or a Saber? A one handed weapon? If youre a master techer you only need 6 RODs and all 27 spells.

the wand/madoog combo is much faster casting and more PP efficient.(2 weapons charging vs only one) I can't stand rods because they're so slow. sure they do more damage, but unless you're fighting a boss, the enemies will be MOVING. Not to mention Pushan and Tesbra will be VERY available on our servers soon, and 6 P Wands will always be expensive.

On 2008-05-01 11:04, MSAksion wrote
2nd place - MasterGunner is 2nd since guns have 8 types of bullets - 6 elemental bullets with their 6 status attacks and add each gun's 2 special attacks.

3rd & last place - The MasterHunter = SIGH.
Axe - Anga Ja-Broken.
Spear - Dus majarra as if you thought otherwise.
Broadsword - Spin Break for aerial targets and low pp consumption. Gravity sucks PP and Tornado - just use Absolute Dance for more AOE.
doubleSaber - Absolute or Tornado Dance.

That is what every MH palette will look like.



why rank them by number of PA's instead of effectiveness? it doesn't matter how many PA's you have, it matters how many GOOD PA's you have. Your order is completely backwards.

Fighmaster will jabroga/majarra everything and TD to the next room.

GunMaster will shotty/laser everything and walk to the next room. Walking is the only disadvantage here.

MasterForce will take much longer to kill everything than either of the other two ( but still take less time than FT/AT) and will upset nub fighters due to having no buff/heal.

Not saying you shouldn't play MF, just expect to be booted by people who don't know you're decent at killing things, and say NO RESTA OR BUFF? GTFO!

MF is the best class at using the worst damage source in the game. its not a BAD class, but nowhere near the best. I'm sticking to AT with my newman.

[Inazuma]

On 2008-05-01 23:57, mvffin wrote:
the wand/madoog combo is much faster casting and more PP efficient.(2 weapons charging vs only one) I can't stand rods because they're so slow. sure they do more damage, but unless you're fighting a boss, the enemies will be MOVING. Not to mention Pushan and Tesbra will be VERY available on our servers soon, and 6 P Wands will always be expensive.

MasterForce will take much longer to kill everything than either of the other two ( but still take less time than FT/AT) and will upset nub fighters due to having no buff/heal.

Not saying you shouldn't play MF, just expect to be booted by people who don't know you're decent at killing things, and say NO RESTA OR BUFF? GTFO!

MF is the best class at using the worst damage source in the game. its not a BAD class, but nowhere near the best. I'm sticking to AT with my newman.



madoog/wand is much faster casting but its certainly not more pp efficient. when you use a pp charge w/ pwand you will recover something like 2400 pp but w/ puushan is about 1500. plus, you will burn thru pp much faster w/ the puushan b/c you have to cast more techs to kill the same enemies.

bosses and some strong single enemies aside, masterforce is pretty dam fast at killing monsters. its really quite amazing. they arent nearly as bad as everyone says. vs a pack of frogs in white beast, i have about a 9k dps w/ ramegido. and i can attack those annoying gohmans w/ ramegido from outside their attack range thanks to lumira/spread.

[Zorafim]

Master Force is actually the slowest at killing mobs, because of the amount of slowdown it'll cause on the other player's computers/consoles.

[Genoa]

On 2008-05-01 21:45, Zorafim wrote:
You forgot to mention the five minute soloWhite Beast runs.


Would love to see these master classes take on a missions where... I think I put it as... where there isn't a dragon that rolls over the second you enter the boss warp.


On 2008-05-02 01:10, Zorafim wrote:
Master Force is actually the slowest at killing mobs, because of the amount of slowdown it'll cause on the other player's computers/consoles.


I wonder how many MF's in my party it will take to prove your comment correct.
But I do see some pretty pissed PS2 Players >_>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MegamanX on 2008-05-02 03:38 ]</font>

[relentless]

On 2008-05-02 03:38, MegamanX wrote:
Would love to see these master classes take on a missions where... I think I put it as... where there isn't a dragon that rolls over the second you enter the boss warp.

I wonder how many MF's in my party it will take to prove your comment correct.
But I do see some pretty pissed PS2 Players >_>
You don't make sense, Zorafim mentioned those 5 minute solo runs well, duh.

Get a PC. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif Or.. don't complain, blame your PS2, but MF can use what they want, most of their TECHs at 41+ are shiny anyways, so take it as it is. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


Zorafim wrote:
Master Force is actually the slowest at killing mobs, because of the amount of slowdown it'll cause on the other player's computers/consoles.

I don't even understand it as an ironic comment. xD
MF will be the slowest at killing mobs, because it slows down OTHERS?
But yeah, I assume that out of the 3 master-classes, MF will be the slowest at killing mobs in general.



Inazuma wrote:
bosses and some strong single enemies aside, masterforce is pretty dam fast at killing monsters. its really quite amazing. they arent nearly as bad as everyone says. vs a pack of frogs in white beast, i have over 9k dps w/ ramegido. and i can attack those annoying gohmans w/ ramegido from outside their attack range thanks to lumira/spread.
Fixed..
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif Inazuma, what does the dps scouter say??!?!?!?! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif
Wait what... IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAAAND?!?!?
That can't be, can it?

[Genoa]

On 2008-05-02 05:06, SeKaI wrote:

On 2008-05-02 03:38, MegamanX wrote:
Would love to see these master classes take on a missions where... I think I put it as... where there isn't a dragon that rolls over the second you enter the boss warp.

I wonder how many MF's in my party it will take to prove your comment correct.
But I do see some pretty pissed PS2 Players >_>
You don't make sense, Zorafim mentioned those 5 minute solo runs well, duh.

Get a PC. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif Or.. don't complain, blame your PS2, but MF can use what they want, most of their TECHs at 41+ are shiny anyways, so take it as it is. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Who are you telling to get a PC? My comment says I wonder how many MF's in my party it would take to prove Zorafim's comment to be correct because I'm on a pretty high-performance PC >___> PC is in bold on my signature for a reason.
And I lol at the idea of Master Classes 5-minute soloing more than a good handful of missions.

[relentless]

On 2008-05-02 07:44, MegamanX wrote:
Who are you telling to get a PC? My comment says I wonder how many MF's in my party it would take to prove Zorafim's comment to be correct because I'm on a pretty high-performance PC >___> PC is in bold on my signature
for a reason.

And I lol at the idea of Master Classes 5-minute soloing more than a good handful of missions.

Sorry, I still don't understand, oh well. lol (I think those "<__<", ">__>" and "<__>" must've confused me about something for some reason, but let's leave that aside.)

I think you're missing out on the point. Whatever. *shrugs* http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

[Darius_Drake]

Actually I think these will be the three fastest killing mob classes available. Each class seems to be limited though. If you want a more well rounded job avoid master classes. If you want to kill stuff quick then fighmaster/gunmaster/masterforce is for you. If you play fighmaster you will kill stuff quick using melee, but you have no options when it comes to fighting something at range. If you are a masterforce you will kill stuff quick using techs, but you will have severely limited options when it comes to support. If you are a gunmaster you will kill stuff quick using ranged weapons, but you will not have any melee abilities in case something gets to close. The master classes basically specializes in killing stuff quick and their weaknesses lie in versatility. For those that enjoy hybrid classes I just don't see them finding the master classes the least bit interesting.

[Zorafim]

On 2008-05-02 05:06, SeKaI wrote:
I don't even understand it as an ironic comment. xD
MF will be the slowest at killing mobs, because it slows down OTHERS?



Total damage = Sum of damage of all party members. If one member is slowed down, the total damage of the party is lessened. Considering those with low performance PCs and PS2s slow down to even a force, imagine one who can cast three times as fast as one with bigger graphics.

Now, I can see masterforce doing well in areas with many enemies. The range on their techs is huge, and they can target a fair number of enemies. With a Har, they can probably attack as fast as most melee weapons. I'd have to see it in action to know for sure, but it's hypothetically pretty good.

[relentless]

Ah, ok, I thought you were saying that the MF itself would kill slower and not the party altogether because of the slowdown it can cause.