Trap damage

[biggabertha]

I've been very interested to know what are the benefits of being a Human Protranser over a Cast Protranser for the past few months but I never really see or read any kind of solid argument as to what makes a human Protranser stand up against a superior race.

Casts and Caseals both have access to SUVs, superior HP, ATP, ATA and DFP. Sure, Humans have higher MST and EVP and a 5% stat bonus but those stats do not matter when you are supporting the team by laying down covering fire from ranged weapons.

So the only thing left, is trap damage. Now, I heard this nasty rumour that Humans have a bonus to their damage per tick to their traps as opposed to any other race. I don't have a Cast or a Caseal to try this out and it would take my friends too long to level their Caseal to Lv. 130, Protranser 20.

I deal 259 a tick to Rappy Polecs on Maximum Attack G S with a Burn Trap EX (the only time I took note of it and was the closest enemy that wasn't weak against fire in case that had any difference).

Finally, I'm a male Human at Lv. 130 and Protranser 20. I didn't see a damage step up from Protranser 19 to 20 either so I'm unsure wether or not damage is increased by job level or not.

Just... really interested to know what kind of point there is to being a Human Protranser when Casts and Caseals seem to fit the bill better as a Protranser. A slight increase in evasion and magic defence nice but it can't seriously be the only reason to go as a human? Can it?

[panzer_unit]

I remember seeing my EX traps (M Cast 130/20 PT) dealing something like 279 per tick... Freeze EX against Vanda Ogras. Might be a DFP diff between targets? I'm too busy leveling my dark shotgun bullet on the rappies to trap them.

You might be bugged about Protranser, on the other hand you'd be much worse off compared to a Cast if you were playing Fortefighter or Fortegunner. EX traps are the reason people have us around anyway, they're the same for everyone.

[biggabertha]

I only used Burn EX on Rappies because they were the first thing in the event that I saw so I could try this out. I know Freeze EXs have a larger damage modifier on them than both Burn EX and Stun EX though so it seems like they're the same for me.

I suppose there is really no incentive to roll human for a Protranser other than some, secret thing Sonic Team will release in the future. Damn...

[panzer_unit]

What about all the S-rank crea weapons coming along?
Too bad for humans there are no Crea shotguns with an extra bullet, or grenades hitting 5 targets (though that might leave you one-shotting yourself with Duranga)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-05-06 08:37 ]</font>

[dc534]

Cast and Human both make great PT. I would agrue however Cast has a slight edge since they get an SUV, and I am one to believe a special is better than no special. As far as I am concerned however they are both equal when it comes to PT. Humans will have better defensive stats, except dfp but it is only like 30 points off of a casts, where Casts have better, offensive abilities, atp, ata, hp. Either way both are very good PT, even beast is not bad except you need to buy a hit unit and by then you are no better than a human with a special ability. Really the only class that might not be a great PT is a Newman, I am not putting Newmans down, however they should really stick with what they are good at and that is teching.

[Winter_of_uno]

Argueing that Cast make better PT because they have SUV is like saying Beast make better AT cause they have nanoblast. Maybe the stat bonus for Human and hybrid classes will be more noticable when Job Level is increased to 30.

[dc534]

I dont see how that comparison is fair because what makes a human better suited for PT than Cast. If you must know I play Human PT and have played it for nearly 8 months, so I have experience with this class. In my oppinion Cast's are equal and the SUV just sets them slightly ahead. I would rather have an SUV than 100 more MST any day. That really is the only difference is that Humans get more MST and EVP, everything else Casts better at.

I dont know why people think that the 3% boost that humans get in hybrid classes makes up for the difference between races, because it does not.

[Gen2000]

On 2008-05-08 01:33, Winter_of_uno wrote:
Maybe the stat bonus for Human and hybrid classes will be more noticable when Job Level is increased to 30.


Heh, I remember back when cap was 10 people keep saying "maybe humans will pull through when we get job level 15."

*job level 15 hits*

"ok well maybe when job level 20 hits"

*job level 20 hits*

And here we are now. I think it's safe to say that the human bonus means jack**** when in comparison to Beast/Cast in stats that matter. The Nanoblast/SUV is just icing on the cake. But who knows maybe in the future Human 1xx/30 will actually be better than Beast/Cast 1xx/30 (I'm pretty doubtful going by history).

[Sekani]

If all you're worried about are stats, then there is no reason to play a human protranser. At all. Ever. That answer your question?

[Akaimizu]

He does have a point, though. I mean, they definitely added the stat bonus for humans for certain classes. However, if anybody was to ask me what the real intention of that bonus was to be I would have no idea how to answer it.

[panzer_unit]

Pre-class stats:

M Human lv130
ATP 932
ATA 448

M Cast lv130
ATP 1013

M Newman lv130
ATA 488

... Human isn't all that far behind Cast for ATP, or Newman for ATA. A race bonus isn't enough to close those gaps but makes them just about insignificant in practice. It also increases the difference with the last-place species to something fairly meaningful.

[biggabertha]

Well, if we go on the basis that Protransers are team support, Newman trumps Humans for projectiles, knockback effects and trap placement because they can: block better so they don't always stay on the floor/Just Counter, hit at a better rate and deal with the not-so-accurate weapons. Similarly, Cast trumps human for support through taking less physical damage, hit at a better rate, deal with not-so-accurate weapons and are able to mass support with SUVs.

If anything, Beasts are rather redundant for a Protranser save for their insanely high HP which allows them to survive for perhaps, an extra hit but they still have a Nanoblast which humans, do not have.

So... so far, all we have for going for Human is being "versatile" but is there much point in being versatile when you continuously party with close friends?

I don't know, I seem to find it rather rude if you play a class that could've been better suited for the duo/team if the race was better chosen. Am I just worrying over nothing though? My friends keep telling me that it doesn't bother them because player skill is better than statistics but I feel as if I'm slowing them down by either: finding myself on the floor - unable to lay traps when I could've blocked and layed one in response/counter attack, not keeping things under constant Status Effects or knocked back (Grenade rounds, Anga Dugrega etc.) or keeping them in line with Shotgun/Laser Cannon.

Maybe I am just worrying over nothing significant but it's odd that the Human bonus to the class isn't so beneficial as I initially thought.

[Hiero_Glyph]

Female Cast would make the most sense from a tactical standpoint for a Protranser. Their EVP is too low to really make any difference and the DFP is pitiful as well. So do not expect to have many Just Counter effects even with an Orpad/Legs equipped. The best bet would be to support with the Techer and lay traps when needed before/during combat. As the SUV bar will fill from trap damage, this would be an ideal setup for a tactical support role.

[dc534]

Yeah I think females in this game are potetially better than males. You cannot deny them the extra +2 end they naturally get. I however do not have any femal characters, although I might make a female WT as soon as I get home.

[panzer_unit]

On 2008-05-08 14:13, biggabertha wrote:
Well, if we go on the basis that Protransers are team support, Newman trumps Humans for projectiles, knockback effects and trap placement because they can: block better so they don't always stay on the floor/Just Counter, hit at a better rate and deal with the not-so-accurate weapons. Similarly, Cast trumps human for support through taking less physical damage, hit at a better rate, deal with not-so-accurate weapons and are able to mass support with SUVs.


You'll give NEWMANS the nod for having nice EVP and being on their feet more for team support, and ignore the same advantage when it's (much more) in HUMAN's favor over CAST.

Of course it's only important when CAST has a HP or DFP (lol DFP does something?) advantage, but not when HUMAN does. Riiiight.

So yeah, I guess you should reroll your character and keep this topic bookmarked as an I-told-you-so later on when you're bugged about whatever and wishing for Human stat balance again. Every race choice leaves a little to be desired. I'd love to evade more of those big knockdown/status hits, and get punked by techs less on my Cast but I can accept it because I know what the up-sides are too.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2008-05-09 06:53 ]</font>

[mvffin]

99% of the reasons why I made a Cast PT was those three little letters. SUV.

I figured I was gonna get the snot kicked outta me most of the time, so I might as well be able to UNLEASH FURY on a few spawns per run. Then EX traps came out, and now I charge it faster, get killed less, and help the party more.