Rock =/= Pop

[Nitro Vordex]

Seriously, why do people lump these together? They can be the same, but for the most part they're totally different. I wish they wouldn't combine these two totally seperate things.

I could so relate this to PSU and PSO lol

[Shadowpawn]

Pop did derive from Rock though. Just like the instrumental elements of Hip-hop owes a lot to electronica.

[Nitro Vordex]

I don't think it should be put together though.

Rock is still quite different from pop, and doesn't deserve to be lumped with something else.

Hip-hop and electronica I can understand, as hip hop is pretty much electronica with lyrics.

[Stormsworder]

You have a point. If you put Skillet together with something like Hillary Duff, they do not sound remotely similar. -_- Well, what I listen to mostly separates them properly at least.

I actually don't hear them put the two together that much, but of course, I don't listen to a lot of mainstream music.

[Shadowpawn]

Not quite, Hip-hop is a cultural movement. It's not just beats and rhythms, there are social and political elements within Hip-Hop as well. As for being electronica with lyrics, electronica tends to produce an "otherworldy" sound that primarily done with the syths. Where as hip-hop production relies heavily on bass and drums.

As with Pop and Rock you can tell the difference between a Hip-hop instrumental to a electronica one.

[The_Gio]

Well Pop isnt really a genre,its just short for popular as for popular music

[Eihwaz]

This thread is making the music snob in me weep tears of pure angst. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Hip hop owes more to some Jamaican music forms than to electronic; the stylistics origins of hip hop were put in place by the late 60's/early 70's. To say that hip hop is basically electronica with lyrics is wrong...Of course, the very term "electronica" is somewhat of a misnomer, IMO. It's just a convenient way to lump all electronic music that was not made specifically for dancing.

And yes, hip hop has the whole cultural element to it that seems largely removed from the origins of the actual musical genre of "hip hop."

I think the reason a lot of pop and rock gets lumped together is because a lot of chart-topping acts of those genres tend to blur them together quite a lot, especially with bands like The Fray.


On 2008-05-13 21:27, The_Gio wrote:
Well Pop isnt really a genre,its just short for popular as for popular music


This was the case originally, but it is definitely possible to separate "popular music" from "pop music." For instance, Red Hot Chili Peppers make popular music, but they're definitely not a pop band.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Eihwaz on 2008-05-13 21:30 ]</font>

[The_Gio]

On 2008-05-13 21:29, Eihwaz wrote:
This thread is making the music snob in me weep tears of pure angst. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Hip hop owes more to some Jamaican music forms than to electronic; the stylistics origins of hip hop were put in place by the late 60's/early 70's. To say that hip hop is basically electronica with lyrics is wrong...Of course, the very term "electronica" is somewhat of a misnomer, IMO. It's just a convenient way to lump all electronic music that was not made specifically for dancing.

And yes, hip hop has the whole cultural element to it that seems largely removed from the origins of the actual musical genre of "hip hop."

I think the reason a lot of pop and rock gets lumped together is because a lot of chart-topping acts of those genres tend to blur them together quite a lot, especially with bands like The Fray.


On 2008-05-13 21:27, The_Gio wrote:
Well Pop isnt really a genre,its just short for popular as for popular music


This was the case originally, but it is definitely possible to separate "popular music" from "pop music." For instance, Red Hot Chili Peppers make popular music, but they're definitely not a pop band.




uh if your talking about the same red hot chilli peppers I know about,then they are pop. The stereotype of pop is basically using any instrument or sound to make music.So Rap falls under pop,rock falls under pop,even some sub genres like indie and punk fall under pop,thats when indie pop and pop punk comes out(I.E Blink 182). Not to argue but pop still means popular,as long as a band or an artist is known by almost everyone it either gets pop added to the genre or just completely becomes pop. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Eihwaz]

On 2008-05-13 21:35, The_Gio wrote:
uh if your talking about the same red hot chilli peppers I know about,then they are pop. The stereotype of pop is basically using any instrument or sound to make music.So Rap falls under pop,rock falls under pop,even some sub genres like indie and punk fall under pop,thats when indie pop and pop punk comes out(I.E Blink 182). Not to argue but pop still means popular,as long as a band or an artist is known by almost everyone it either gets pop added to the genre or just completely becomes pop. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


It seems like you're still confusing the phrase "popular music" to be interchangeable with the phrase "pop music." "Popular music" means any sort of music that tends to be well-liked by the populace, while "pop music" refers to a specific genre of music, such as the kind of music produced by Madonna, Cher, Brittney Spears, etc.

A rock band can be popular, but they can't be a pop band. I hope you see the point I'm trying to make here.

[The_Gio]

On 2008-05-13 21:39, Eihwaz wrote:

On 2008-05-13 21:35, The_Gio wrote:
uh if your talking about the same red hot chilli peppers I know about,then they are pop. The stereotype of pop is basically using any instrument or sound to make music.So Rap falls under pop,rock falls under pop,even some sub genres like indie and punk fall under pop,thats when indie pop and pop punk comes out(I.E Blink 182). Not to argue but pop still means popular,as long as a band or an artist is known by almost everyone it either gets pop added to the genre or just completely becomes pop. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


It seems like you're still confusing the phrase "popular music" to be interchangeable with the phrase "pop music." "Popular music" means any sort of music that tends to be well-liked by the populace, while "pop music" refers to a specific genre of music, such as the kind of music produced by Madonna, Cher, Brittney Spears, etc.

A rock band can be popular, but they can't be a pop band. I hope you see the point I'm trying to make here.



yeah ok I get'cha,your basically saying it is a genre because of artists meaning to be pop.I still think pop means popular because before (in your example) Madonna and Cher were considered dance before,and Britney Spears....well what can I say,sex sells but yeah ok I get'cha.Makes alot more sense.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The_Gio on 2008-05-13 21:43 ]</font>

[Eihwaz]

Yeah. I'm a TOTAL dork ( http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif ) when it comes to anything musical, so I'd naturally be the first to get huffy over music genres and subgenres, of course. At any rate, in an attempt to get this topic more on-topic: it bothers me when people lump pop and rock together as if they were completely interchangeable.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Eihwaz on 2008-05-13 21:49 ]</font>

[Rubius-sama]

Rock = solid

Pop = liquid

There is no way rock could = pop.

[Feelmirath]

I blame Avril Lavigne. :/

[Rashiid]

Well...
There is such a thing as PopRock music.

Idk any English examples...
But...

As for the Japanese, a normal Rock band example would be Asian Kung Fu Generation.
A Pop-Rock band example would be UVERworld. Their songs tend to be more upbeat and active, something you'd think would be in an anime.

I never really thought of putting the two as the same.
But it's not really a band/artist that is is rock or pop, it's the song they make, and how it is classified.
But at the same time, the genre 'urban' comes into play...(dun dun duhhhhhhh)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rashiid on 2008-05-15 18:57 ]</font>

[Neith]

What I find amusing is what I saw in town last week.

In the METAL section, the following bands:
- My Chemical Romance
- Crazy Town
- 30 Seconds to Mars
- Elliot Minor

I wanted to /facepalm so badly http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

It's the same here though, a lot of stores clump Pop/Rock together. I mean, I know there is a genre called Pop-Rock, but aside from that, you're getting mainstream pop coupled with some rock bands. For example, if I want a Muse/Garbage album, I have to look in Pop/Rock and look through a sea of mainstream pop albums >_>

[Kylie]

I don't really care about genres in the first place. I just like what I like, regardless of which aisle they put it in in the music store, and I can't say I recall anyone mistaking a rock song for Pop music. Therefore, having a Rock / Pop section really isn't that big of a deal. They put R&B together with Rap in a lot of stores too, you know.

It's just what they do; I don't think they mean to say they're the same.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kylie on 2008-05-14 10:06 ]</font>

[granis1233]

it's all good to me.

[Eihwaz]

On 2008-05-14 07:01, UrikoBB3 wrote:
What I find amusing is what I saw in town last week.

In the METAL section, the following bands:
- My Chemical Romance
- Crazy Town
- 30 Seconds to Mars
- Elliot Minor

I wanted to /facepalm so badly http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif


Oh man, that's terrible. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

And yes, things get a lot more complicated when you consider that pop-rock is a full-fledged genre, too... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Syl]

On 2008-05-14 06:42, Rashiid wrote:
As for the Japanese, a normal Rock band example would be Asian Kung Fu Generation.
A Pop-Rock band example would be UVERworld. Their songs tend to be more upbeat and active, something you'd think would be in an anime.

Fix'd. I find AKFG to be pretty upbeat and some of their songs have been used as opening songs for several animes (Bleach, FMA, etc.). So going by that they'd be pop-rock amirite? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Genres really screw everything up IMO. Everyone has a different meaning for any genre (like Uriko's example of "metal" http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_nono.gif) and it causes more hassles than they should. Genres are used just to give you a quick feel of what you're supposed to expect. Or at least, they should lol.

[Sgt_Shligger]

On 2008-05-14 07:01, UrikoBB3 wrote:
What I find amusing is what I saw in town last week.

In the METAL section, the following bands:
- My Chemical Romance
- Crazy Town
- 30 Seconds to Mars
- Elliot Minor

I wanted to /facepalm so badly http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

It's the same here though, a lot of stores clump Pop/Rock together. I mean, I know there is a genre called Pop-Rock, but aside from that, you're getting mainstream pop coupled with some rock bands. For example, if I want a Muse/Garbage album, I have to look in Pop/Rock and look through a sea of mainstream pop albums >_>



You buy your music? I don't think the issue is mixing rock with pop but more mixing pop with rock. A lot of pop music uses electric guitars but there are distinctive qualities to it that just allow you to go "Oh, pop music." There isn't a concrete thing I can come up with to I.D. something as pop. Sure, pop uses a lot of major key stuff but so does rock. You just know it's pop (or really bad rock http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif).

[Rashiid]

On 2008-05-14 13:42, SylviaEspada wrote:

On 2008-05-14 06:42, Rashiid wrote:
As for the Japanese, a normal Rock band example would be Asian Kung Fu Generation.
A Pop-Rock band example would be UVERworld. Their songs tend to be more upbeat and active, something you'd think would be in an anime.

Fix'd. I find AKFG to be pretty upbeat and some of their songs have been used as opening songs for several animes (Bleach, FMA, etc.). So going by that they'd be pop-rock amirite? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



Not sure how I messed up on that, lol. >.<
And true that AKFG has songs in animes, but they are more rock...

Not sure if you've heard of UVERworld or their songs.
Like something from Perfume or something...
Perhaps that is too far...

Anyway, OP, not sure why it irritates you so much.
I love music more than the next person, and I constantly have my iPod on (except when gf thinks I'm ignoring her and have to take it off), but I never would get super annoyed by a genre mix up...