GC: Saving is different when joining a team?

[SnAPPUrU-nyan-ko]

Looks like it saves twice when I join a team. Perhaps to combat duping? =>_>=;;;;

[Barubary6]

Yep, I can confirm this at the protocol level.

len 0, client -> server: 6F 00
len 0, server -> client: 97 01
len 0, client -> server: B1 00
len 8, client -> server: B3 01
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
len 0, server -> client: 95 DA
SEND SHOGO:
len 28, server -> client: B1 00
32 30 30 33 3A 30 31 3A 32 34 3A 20 30 33 3A 32 36 3A 35 38 2E 30 30 30 00 01 00
00
len 0, client -> server: 99 00


Command 6F is sent to turn off "burst" when joining a team. Before the server maintenance, the server didn't respond to the 6F command (other than to allow others to join the team). Now, the server sends the sequence of commands that triggers a save in the logon server, the result being a second data save... Whether this prevents duping I don't know.

BTW, the ASCII string in the B1 command is 2003:01:24: 03:26:58.000 (the current time).

-- Barubary

[Domali]

This does indeed stop duping unless there is more then one way. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[pErFeCt_34]

Well the damage has been done. At least it wont get more out of hand hopefully.

[MaJin]

GOOD NEWS!! duping is now no more. How do i know this? go Gamefaqs.com and check out all the "i cant dupe threads" http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif. I still have a feeling that Dupers will find another method...Just hope they dont that fast.

[Eden]

I noticed this too...hopefully its the end of duping, now to get rid of the dupes already out there ^_^

[Cloud_01]

Hopefully, Sonic Team will find a way to get rid of dupes and duping for good.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cloud_01 on 2003-01-23 21:11 ]</font>

[SnAPPUrU-nyan-ko]

Online item duplication was easy and low-risk, but seems to be blocked now.
There is likely an offline method, so don't think everything's purrfect now ;3.

[Raist]

what?! do my eyes decieve me?? did sonic team do something...good??

[Damon_Bane]

Yay to ST for fixing duping; boo for not fixing the guild card problem. Frankly, I don't mind if someone I don't know is duping as long as I can find my friends to play with, which is now nigh impossible unless I feel like changing servers constantly...

[hooray4punkmusic]

Duping is gone! Hooray!

[BlueFire2k5]

On 2003-01-23 21:24, Damon_Bane wrote:
Yay to ST for fixing duping; boo for not fixing the guild card problem. Frankly, I don't mind if someone I don't know is duping as long as I can find my friends to play with, which is now nigh impossible unless I feel like changing servers constantly...



Hm? Whats the guild card problem?

[Atax]

*Drops bottle of vanilla coke*

*Stares at screen*

*Rubs eyes*


Are my eyes seeing, what I think they're seeing? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

[Eden]

you can only search people that are in the same ship as you ><

[Ruby-chan]

On 2003-01-23 21:56, Eden wrote:
you can only search people that are in the same ship as you ><



Are you sure? I know for a fact I've searched people's locations and they've been in Vega whilst I was in Antares. Perhaps you mean they must be in the same countries' ships or you must search from a lobby.

[Damon_Bane]

I was just on... Searched for someone while I was on Antares, found him. Left to Deneb, couldn't find him. Went back to Antares, there he was.

Maybe I just suck, but as far as I know, it isn't working anyways >.<

[Eden]

well I just tried it and I can't search antares from vega

[Goldstix69]

All I have to say is

OMG....OMG....OMG....OMG....OMG....OMG....OMG....O MG....OMG....OMG....
I'm going to go and sit for a while to think about this. ST did something to stop duping. Maybe they're aren't so bad after all.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Goldstix69 on 2003-01-23 22:06 ]</font>

[thewiredknight]

Yea!!! Sonic team actually did something right!!! NO MORE DUPING!!!

[Eden]

dont get your hopes up guys

[Sashi]

On 2003-01-23 22:04, Damon_Bane wrote:
I was just on... Searched for someone while I was on Antares, found him. Left to Deneb, couldn't find him. Went back to Antares, there he was.

Maybe I just suck, but as far as I know, it isn't working anyways >.<



I did the same thing, could send/recieve mail from the person.

Back on topic, Yay! Ding Dong, the dupings gone!

[Sedyne]

YAYAYAYAYYAAYAYAYAYAYY I"M SO HAPPY!

[RagMasterRappy]

On 2003-01-23 19:36, Barubary6 wrote:
Yep, I can confirm this at the protocol level.


Poo. Either stop dumping protocol data which no one will understand or give me the decryption algorithm lol http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[AdamW]

Huzzah! Too bad they couldn't do it a little sooner but late is better than never. I'm kinda hoping they find a way to wipe out all the duped weapons too. Unlikely though.

[CajunSamurai]

Let's pressure dupe collectors into throwing all their stuff into one big bonfire and NUKING IT. I know it'll never happen; that's like trying to rid the world of nuclear warheads or something. But damn, it'd be nice to have servers that were completely free of dupes again...

I wonder if Sega can do anything similar to what they did with the JP version, and force us to start from scratch as far as items go? That'd suck for us legits such as I, who has slaved for hours upon hours collecting rares. Doubt that'll happen though...

For now, let us rejoice. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_beer.gif

[watashiwa]

Rejoice for the week or so you have. Action Replay will be out soon and then you're all fucked.

[pErFeCt_34]

Ok I'll bet you 5000 meseta the Action Replay becomes magicly delayed again.

[CajunSamurai]

Rejoice for the week or so you have. Action Replay will be out soon and then you're all fucked. ... Oh yeah.

Let us rejoice... for a week! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_beer.gif (And then get the hell off the servers, let the cheaters kill eachother, and laugh)

[MuRaKi]

Welp the damage has been done everyone has what they mostly needed and wanted. My question would have to be what the he11 took sega so long to fix this problem???

[TheoYumei]

It took them a while but at least we now know that ST actually cares for their customers =)

[KillerCC1101]

seriously..I was tired of seeing all those.."dupers only" games...pathetic...hah

[Zolpner]

so is Vega in wide spread panic?

[AynRand]

It was said earlier but the damage to the game has already been done, I mean how long has duping been around for and does it really take sonic team that long to think of this possible fix.....

I also wonder if these dupers will find away around it, it has happened before so i wont be suprised

[CajunSamurai]

I also wonder if these dupers will find away around it, it has happened before so i wont be suprised I give it a week or two... By then, if dupers haven't figured out another loophole, the Action Replay lamers will have. Hmm...
I wonder if this update is in anticipation of the AR, at all? I doubt it'd help much, but at least Sonic Team is doing SOMETHING...

[PrinceBrightstar]

too bad it doesn't apply to us JP V1.0 ers

[AnimalMother]

Oh, no heaven forbid they are going to release the Action Replay for the n-th time that would truly break my fucking heart.

[SuperSpeedy]

On 2003-01-23 21:48, hooray4punkmusic wrote:
Duping is gone! Hooray!


Well, there's still that risky offline duping method. One guy on GameFAQS did it on accident.

[googles]

wow...the dupes SHOULD fizzle out somwhat..maybe il start playing again... il go to vega, get free dupes and delete em all. woohoo http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[CajunSamurai]

On 2003-01-24 04:24, googles wrote:
wow...the dupes SHOULD fizzle out somwhat..maybe il start playing again... il go to vega, get free dupes and delete em all. woohoo http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif Oh man, that's a good idea. I'm seriously gonna do that tomorrow. I'll make a hot HUnewearl, go around lobbies and say,
"I got FSOD and lost ALL my weapons. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif Please give me a Black King Bar! ^_^;;"

I'll make a killing.

[RedFox]

On 2003-01-24 05:02, CajunSamurai wrote:
http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif Oh man, that's a good idea. I'm seriously gonna do that tomorrow. I'll make a hot HUnewearl, go around lobbies and say,
"I got FSOD and lost ALL my weapons. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif Please give me a Black King Bar! ^_^;;"

I'll make a killing.


the sad thing is... they'll acctually believe you :sigh:

[Percival]

Slowly but surely, the ratio of duped weapon will go down as new players join the fun. Some will also be eliminated through BDOS. Some will be eliminated as dupers stop playing. Who knows, maybe duped weapons will become rare artifacts to put on display in museums. Wishfull thinking?

[Gartywood]

i just went to gamestop and AR is not coming out next week its been delayed to 2/17/03 and i bet it will keep getting delayed

then we will have the amount of time that it takes the morons to make codes, unless they include PSO codes which i find highly unlikely as they weren't included with dc cheat devices

[-DangerousDj-]

You can all stop prasing Sonic Team.. I just joined a game and as the 2nd save started it fsod.. When I loaded up again my card is corrupt.

[Mag_Launcher]

Bah! I might as well quit PSO now. If I can't have my easy rares, I ain't playing... much. This angers me.

*Reads DJ's post* uhh... oh shit, we're in trouble now... Thanks again to ST for f***ing things up once again. One enter FSOD and ALL those hard earned levels are gone in the wind. Now I'm REALLY pissed.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mag_Launcher on 2003-01-24 06:35 ]</font>

[Buuyon]

Sorry to say you can still dupe...my friends a duper and he still can dupe so maybe ST tried but failed but another time to do somethig good for the US...and yes that 2nd save gives u alot of FSOD.

[Mag_Launcher]

It's not worth duping if you lose EVERYTHING you have to intentional memory corruption. I am practically speechless about how gay that is.

[RagMasterRappy]

On 2003-01-24 06:23, -DangerousDj- wrote:
You can all stop prasing Sonic Team.. I just joined a game and as the 2nd save started it fsod.. When I loaded up again my card is corrupt.

Sucks for you, eh? What are you using a broadband connection? I keep hearing complaints from people with this type of connection. I'm connected using a modem and have only had one online related problem so far.

[Jack]

On 2003-01-23 23:55, watashiwa wrote:
Rejoice for the week or so you have. Action Replay will be out soon and then you're all fucked.



It's been "coming out in a week" for the past year. I somehow don't think it'll be out any time soon.

[hucasts_rock]

there's a problem to this double saving...most people get FSOD when they just join a game...it double saves...then you get FSOD while its saving forcing you to turn the power off...happened to me...file corruption...not a good thing to experience...

[Buuyon]

See ST just fails at tring to help...its a good thing to stop duping but is it worth for most people to get corupted...now i donr wanna play PSO oniline cuz i dont wanna loose every thing...well imma check out what they are saying at sega.com boards...

[ShieldDragon]

Well, ST finally did something. But, like with most other things, the good guys go out with the bad.

[watashiwa]

That's like three or four people I've heard about getting FSOD when joining a team with this new save method and having their memory card corrupt.

Sorta makes me scared to play online now!

[Elusive_Llama]

Can anybody else confirm that you CAN, in fact, get FSODed during the 2nd save and thereby lose everything? No offense to the guys who just lost everything...I just want more confirmations, if any. Barubary, could you shed light on this?

If this 2nd save FSOD crap is true, I'll be playing offline until the bumbling idiots at ST fix this.

[Angarwaen]

It dosen't bother me that people dupe since I just play with the same friends all the time. I couldn't care less about what is going on in other teams, so this new double save thing really makes me mad, I don't want to my cards to get corrupted and lose all of my characters. Also, what if to get rid of the dupes, they decide to wipe out everyones bank or somthing when they go online (not that I know if it's possible or anything..) I would hate to lose all of the rares i've found in Ulti.

[Eden]

personally I would rather play with dupers than risk my char getting corrupted. I won't be playing in many games until they fix this glaring problem...

Oh yeah, it sort of makes me wish I had a lot of dupes because now they are gonna be worth some money on eBay

[Tellah]

Well, atleast they tried to fix it... now they just have to fix the fix... eash... http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

[SnAPPUrU-nyan-ko]

jeebus. Oh well, leveling is easier in offline ultimate ;3

[War_Child]

online fsod during double save.. joy -_- not sure if I want to play online anymore =/

Is it just the 1 character, the pso file, or the whole memory card that gets corrupt?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: War_Child on 2003-01-24 11:07 ]</font>

[Skeeza19]

I can tell you that the dupping issue isn not fixed...Once I read the psot on PSO-WORLD i ran to my gamecube and tried to dupe. I still can online and their update seem to do is make it even more secure to dupe. I duped 30 Drill Launchers and it all work great. No didconnects or FSOD. Its unforntinate that u guys dont embrace the duping instead of complaining about it. Well if you ever need a extra item look for me in Vega Block 10 every night around 10 est. Good luck and see you soon

Simple FOMAR lvl. 171 Redria

[Polenicus]

On 2003-01-24 08:05, hucasts_rock wrote:
there's a problem to this double saving...most people get FSOD when they just join a game...it double saves...then you get FSOD while its saving forcing you to turn the power off...happened to me...file corruption...not a good thing to experience...



Errr... I'd be careful with that. how do you know it's MOST people? I didn't have any problems last night, nor did I see any.

If this is a problem I agree people should be warned, but before you make a blanket statement like that, are you SURE? This has already scared my friend offline (Who didn't have any problems last night either) and I'd really hate to see anyone else flee the game for what may be a limited problem.

Can I see a show of hands for how many people have gotten FSOD'd by this new system, and did you have an FSOD problem before?

[Eden]

Why should we embrace it? We prefer to play the game the way it was meant to be played, and personally, I think it's a hell of a lot funner than getting handed items

[Rifaje]

Errr... I'd be careful with that. how do you know it's MOST people? I didn't have any problems last night, nor did I see any.

If this is a problem I agree people should be warned, but before you make a blanket statement like that, are you SURE? This has already scared my friend offline (Who didn't have any problems last night either) and I'd really hate to see anyone else flee the game for what may be a limited problem.

Can I see a show of hands for how many people have gotten FSOD'd by this new system, and did you have an FSOD problem before?




well before last night, I had one FSOD before and it was like a month ago, but since last night I have had three, no file corruptions but I lost EVERYTHING even the stuff i had equiped, in the last one.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rifaje on 2003-01-24 11:28 ]</font>

[pErFeCt_34]

Bah to this topic.

[StoneStare]

yes, i have had the same search problems just arise yesterday after the maintenance. My friend, Dead by Dawn, was trying to search for me, and couldnt find me until he was on the same ship/block as me. i dunno if this was an on going problem, but it seem like it just started yesterday for us. dunno if this helps, but maybe ST reps will read this thread ;p (fat chance)

[jello44]

ok terrific. It stops the duping, but in the same process you can corrupt your memory card. joy. Good job ST, now go clean up this mess.

[Thund]

Well this is gonna be nice that its changed if it truly is.

Seeing the stuff on Ebay etc was getting way out of hand, hopefully the duping offline is too risky for people to attempt.

The double saving and the BSOD stuff tho, makes me glad i play offline with friends more than online.

[Elusive_Llama]

I don't understand why some people are brushing this topic off like it's nothing (here and on Gamefaqs). Come on guys...if it has anything to do with character file corruption, even if it's a distant rumor, do you think I'm going to ignore it?

As an analogy, suppose you were out swimming at the beach and somebody yelled 'SHARK'. Are you going to ignore that warning because you think it's BS?

[dude3282]

I've done it once, before the double save "patch" (dunno if you can call it that, but oh well), but there is a way to stop FSOD. Just pull out the cable from the side of the gamecube. Within a few seconds, it disconnects and you can access all your items and such. It worked for me, and I heard it from someone else for whom it worked.

[Tigger]

On 2003-01-24 02:59, AynRand wrote:
It was said earlier but the damage to the game has already been done, I mean how long has duping been around for and does it really take sonic team that long to think of this possible fix.....

I also wonder if these dupers will find away around it, it has happened before so i wont be suprised


People act as if Sonic Team has all their time to devote to PSO. They're only human as are we, and it can take awhile to figure out possible ways to fix the problems that come up. And hey at least they are trying, which is more then what some companies choose to do.

I can't find any fault with Sonic Team "Hey everyone, let's blame these guys for everything bad that happens in PSO, even though this game wouldn't even exist without them!" I mean come on give ST a break. If they just turned their backs on gamers that would be a reason to complain, but as long as they work through trial and error to fix the problems they are doing something right.

I admit I would be pissed too if I lost my items to a FSOD or something similar, but once again I can't blame ST for my misfortune.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tigger on 2003-01-24 13:18 ]</font>

[Munki]

Tigger, it's a lost cause. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif I have tried to protect ST from the ravenous wolves, but it doesn't seem to help. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

I too am interested in this FSOD on the second save, thus corrupting your player. How common does this seem?

To the people that it has happened to, I am sorry it happened. What conenction did you have? 56K or BB?

I am worried to go back online, as I really don't wanna lose my character.

Any info at all is appreciated.

[Yurika]

On 2003-01-24 13:05, dude3282 wrote:
I've done it once, before the double save "patch" (dunno if you can call it that, but oh well), but there is a way to stop FSOD. Just pull out the cable from the side of the gamecube. Within a few seconds, it disconnects and you can access all your items and such. It worked for me, and I heard it from someone else for whom it worked.



Which type of FSOD was it though, the buzzing or non-buzzing variety? I get the buzzing ones, and they refuse to disconnect, ever. I left mine on for about three and a half hours disconnected before I gave up. Even the Dreamcast at its worst took me an hour. Stupid FSOD stole my drops, my first double cannon, and a nice % L&K. >_< I was on my way to get a parasite cell. Now I owe a buddy of mine like 23 drops. *sigh*

<rant>
I am mildly paranoid now about getting a buzzer on that extra save. /me does not want to lose my character. I've already "re-started" her because I was using a cheap nyko when I first got it (because I didn't have enough money to get a stupid nintendo card... My entire paycheck for the cube and the game. >_<), and I kept trying to convince myself I didn't want to go online. Then after a while I caved, and got a nintendo card and started out twinked with a different ID. I just got her to 80 this morning (only thirty-seven levels before I obtain my previous glory), and I reallyreallyreally do not want her to go byebyes. Plus I have a twinked force on the new card I'm mildly enjoying playing as. ARGable.
</rant>

[ULTICOMP]

What's the point of going online if I'm gonna get FSOD or file corruption? I'd much rather have dupers than no character.

[Soundboy]

the file coruptionis only happning to peopl who are still trying to dupe. So you are getting what you deserve. As for FSOD sometimes it happens 2-3 times in a day and then sometimes it won'r happen for a month i do not beleive that this is related to the upgrade but i could be wrog about he FSOD

[Elusive_Llama]

You know guys, this could all turn out to be a bunch of lies cooked up by people unhappy with the new patch, so here's my disclaimer:

I don't know whether this problem is for real, but I'd much rather be err on the side of caution than get screwed by some server patch.

[Russta]

On 2003-01-23 23:55, watashiwa wrote:
Rejoice for the week or so you have. Action Replay will be out soon and then you're all fucked.

Forever the optimist.

[Vidgmchtr]

a friend of mine says that we might lose items and our character if we go on tonight or something.....is this because of the FSOD?

[RagMasterRappy]

I don't know why people keep having these problems. I have only had the game lock up ONCE online, and I've been playing since the day of the US release. What's the deal, guys? Take the GameCube out of the oven when you're playing PSO? Stop putting your drinks on the case? Don't chew the ethernet cable?

[Elusive_Llama]

The server patch was last night, Rappy.

[RagMasterRappy]

On 2003-01-24 14:57, Elusive_Llama wrote:
The server patch was last night, Rappy.

And I've been playing for most of today.

[Freak74]

I played this morning till 5am and then played a bit bit more around 11am to 12:30pm, everything seems to be ok.

I have had FSODwith the buzzing sound and only lost my sutff that wasn't equiped.

o_O

[gimmeabreak]

isnt there a certain way around this fsod file corruption problem? maybe pulling out the mem card during the fsod, turning the cube off, then on and reinserting the memory card

[SnAPPUrU-nyan-ko]

Interrupting a save in progress is why you get a file corrupt, MEOW MEOW.

[Spacepest]

WTF? Now we have to worry about excess file corruptions due to this new patch?

Until ST resolves this mess, I'm making new characters for online play only, with crap items that I can lose without feeling any pain. All my old characters will be leveling offline until then. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Venus]

Yep... my pso savegame is corrupt!!! Everything lost!! All because of fsod this morning. Really does suck... lost 2 characters each at lvl 90. REALLY hope that this problem doesn't persist... btw... anyone have any donations for a lowly humar lvl 10 http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Khaotika]

Patching a Duping method was not worth this.

Sega seems to love fixing things and screwing them up simultaneously. =o

As my brother said:

"This all seems to be beta testing for Micro$oft's version."

BTW I'm staying offline for awhile. =o Hope they "clean up their spilled soft drinks" soon....wishful thinking.

-Khao

"Yay, I got FSOD exiting a game today, whee!! =p"

[ZeKey]

okay this is scary i dont wanna go online any more http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_argh.gif sonic team is giving me scared feelings my friend got corrupted a week ago and his FOMAR went down the drain with anthoer one of my spare chars. and a couple trigrinders http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif but i've got a question when you get FSOD do you lose items in the bank?

[mUlTi]

I honestly don't know what the problem is on an FSOD. If the screen/game freezes I just hit the reset button. The game takes a second and then goes to the "saving to memory card" screen, finishes and goes back to the main menu. All items are there and my character is still there. Pulling out memory cards frantically or cutting the power probably causes most if not all corruption problems. It's like that on just about any electronic system.

[Kasera]

On 2003-01-24 11:07, Skeeza19 wrote:
I duped 30 Drill Launchers and it all work great.


Liar. Drill Launcher isn't released yet. It won't be til Easter



On 2003-01-24 13:24, Munki wrote:
Tigger, it's a lost cause. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif I have tried to protect ST from the ravenous wolves, but it doesn't seem to help. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[...]

I am worried to go back online, as I really don't wanna lose my character.


Why does sonic team need any protection? We are paying 9 dollars a month to be scared to play online?

They made this mess, they need to fix it NOW, before everyone gets corrupted and quits.

[Khaotika]

On 2003-01-24 20:33, Kasera wrote:

They made this mess, they need to fix it NOW, before everyone gets corrupted and quits.



The chances of that happening are roughly the same as the chances of every human being on Earth turning into doughnuts at the same time. XD

OMG ITS TEH KAS!! =O

-Khao

[Tavia]

Damn. I just came home from a refreshing vacation, and I hoped to compliment my return with some PSO gaming. Now I, too, am hesitant to go online again. If I lost all three of my characters... needless to say, I would be quite the unhappy person.

If any of you want to bring these matters directly to SonicTeam's attention, there's always the option of E-Mailing them. The address is right on their website, http://www.sonicteam.com. Surely a slew of FSOD notifications would bring their attention.

Not to sound anti-ST, of course, as I am one of their most dedicated advocates. They are but a bunch of programmers, not miracle workers, nor a PSO-exclusive staff. They do what they can while attempting to manage many other projects simultaneously. If you despise them, try taking a walk in their overworked shoes -- their job is not only to constantly produce new things, but to outdo themselves time and time again. Such expectations can wear on a team.

[Munki]

Yes you are right... we do pay ST to play the game.

But they aren't gods or superhuman. They are programers. People. Doin a job. I admit I am disapointed with this...

but at the same time, this could just as easily be a scare. By the dupers, trying to get a rumor out that people are FSODing and getting corrupted characters. That way, they hope ST will UNDO the patch... therefore allowing duping again. Heck, I know guys that have said if they can't dupe they won't even play the game (I just don't understand that, but hey, I guess that's why I don't dupe)

I mean, up above somebody claimed to dupe an item that doesn't currently exist... so why couldn't the whole character corrupting garbage be a lie?

So, anyway. All I am saying is that alot of people seem to have bad blood with ST. I personally find this ill founded. But that is my opinion. I have argued it before, and got nowhere. As everyone is set in their ways. So I don't wanna argue it again.

[PrinceBrightstar]

i'm having problems logging on right now. maybe they're uninstalling it.

[mystic_knight]

I dunno, there could be backing into this. I heard some people say they saw the people come into thier game, leave, and come back corrupted. And just starting today I've gotten two buzzing FSODs, where previously I haven't had a single 1. Luckily, I've only lost some recovery items, but that could just be the start....*sigh*

[Zolpner]

perhaps ST has put something in the second save function to fsod ppl to get rid of duped items and when they are happy with the fact that most duped itms r gone they will remove the programme from the 2nd save that fsod's ppl

eh just a thought
(most likly not other wise ppl would jus get pissd of wid em and cancel HL for a while)

[neko-chan]

On 2003-01-24 20:36, Tavia wrote:
They are but a bunch of programmers, not miracle workers, nor a PSO-exclusive staff. They do what they can
Yep: corrupting lvl 150 chara in like... 20 seconds? I don't have to be a skilled programmer to do this, I can simply unplug the mem card while saving. I'm a genius like them, uh?

while attempting to manage many other projects simultaneously.
What? Ports of Chu Chu Rocket! for mobile phones? Mini Moni for PSone? Bwuaha. Losers.

[Sedyne]

On 2003-01-23 21:11, SnAPPUrU-nyan-ko wrote:
Online item duplication was easy and low-risk, but seems to be blocked now.
There is likely an offline method, so don't think everything's purrfect now ;3.


There is still 1 method I'm aware of, however I highly dought anyone goes to the expense because the item you'd need is like 90$ and you can't be a moron to do it >_<

[CajunSamurai]

God damn. Thanks, Tavia and Munki, at least there are a FEW here that don't talk about Sonic Team as if they were a group of amateur Electronic Arts-class developers (OOOOH!). http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

I mean, seriously now... Sonic Team is without a doubt one of the most talented development teams in the WORLD, and easily top my list of favorite developers. Even so, they DO make mistakes. Anyone that seriously competed in Sonic Adventure's World Rankings knows how much of a mess THAT was.

But hating them just for a mistake or two in a game? Pfft. Gimme a friggin' break. I have no problem with people expressing their anger at them for corruptions and other such headaches; I probably would too. But come on, any long time Sonic Team fan should know to give them a little credit where it is due. Disliking them for a few bugs? Ha. Go play NiGHTS and then we'll talk.

That probably belonged in the rant forums. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

...OMG, just as I hit preview, I got my first and only FSOD on PSO. I'm totally serious. Maybe I'll jump on the ST hating bandwagon too if my card just got corrupted. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[BrokenHope]

On 2003-01-24 20:43, Munki wrote:
Yes you are right... we do pay ST to play the game.

But they aren't gods or superhuman. They are programers. People. Doin a job. I admit I am disapointed with this...

but at the same time, this could just as easily be a scare. By the dupers, trying to get a rumor out that people are FSODing and getting corrupted characters. That way, they hope ST will UNDO the patch... therefore allowing duping again. Heck, I know guys that have said if they can't dupe they won't even play the game (I just don't understand that, but hey, I guess that's why I don't dupe)

I mean, up above somebody claimed to dupe an item that doesn't currently exist... so why couldn't the whole character corrupting garbage be a lie?

So, anyway. All I am saying is that alot of people seem to have bad blood with ST. I personally find this ill founded. But that is my opinion. I have argued it before, and got nowhere. As everyone is set in their ways. So I don't wanna argue it again.





Yeah DnagerousDj is such a duper

WTF would he risk 2 level 157's a level 120 and a level 76 to dupe? and why would he lie about being corrupted?

How about the fact that sonic team are known to patch one thing and mess up another, or does no one remember the time when TTF would RSOD people just loading the quest?

I know you really want to blame this as some scam by dupers to make yourself feel safer, i can only hope something like this happens to you then you'll see that this is true.

[CajunSamurai]

All of that aside, I REALLY think it's best to play it safe and stay OFF the servers until ST works this out. I got my FIRST and only FSOD just moments ago (like I said above >_<); I had almost forgotten what it was like to lose items to a crash.
Risking FSOD and corruptions just isn't worth it to me right now. I still gotta play more Panzer Dragoon Orta and Splinter Cell. o_O I thought I was one of the lucky ones, but nope... FSOD found me, and there goes my S-Assassin Blades and a Lv118 mag (that was nearly evolved). Time for a break for me, perhaps.

[neko-chan]

On 2003-01-25 03:34, CajunSamurai wrote:
I mean, seriously now... Sonic Team is without a doubt one of the most talented development teams in the WORLD

The Little manual of pimp coder says: "before releasing any public piece of code, make yourself a big favor: TEST IT".

[Salvo]

Um, I just found out about this now, AFTER I just went online 3 times last night. I started my own team 3 times and had no problem bursting in (didn't even notice the double save). Is this FSOD problem only when joining a game in progress, or at any time? The only problem I had had really last night was getting booted off while I was in the middle of a job (3 times!!) >:(

[reem]

On 2003-01-24 20:43, Munki wrote:
Yes you are right... we do pay ST to play the game.

But they aren't gods or superhuman. They are programers. People. Doin a job. I admit I am disapointed with this...

but at the same time, this could just as easily be a scare. By the dupers, trying to get a rumor out that people are FSODing and getting corrupted characters. That way, they hope ST will UNDO the patch... therefore allowing duping again. Heck, I know guys that have said if they can't dupe they won't even play the game (I just don't understand that, but hey, I guess that's why I don't dupe)

I mean, up above somebody claimed to dupe an item that doesn't currently exist... so why couldn't the whole character corrupting garbage be a lie?

So, anyway. All I am saying is that alot of people seem to have bad blood with ST. I personally find this ill founded. But that is my opinion. I have argued it before, and got nowhere. As everyone is set in their ways. So I don't wanna argue it again.






i agree

see this guy ...it is really funny !!! he had to edit his action after sonic team patched the server ... how can he make money now ???

he had like more than 100 items but now ...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3001899338&category=27221

[EsperJ]

Thing I'm worried about is that I too, have suffered from a buzzing fsod upon entering a game, and subsequently had to turn off my GCN.

Now if this were to happen a split second too early, while the second save was taking place, then I reckon there would be a much larger chance of ppl suffering from corrupted files.

FSOD can strike at any time, and this new double save implementation won't increase the risk of fsod. Its just the combination of the two that I'm worried about.

They need to try and fix the reliability of the servers if its at all possible.

[-DangerousDj-]

Some 1 asked if I use bba. I dont Im on 56k.

to all the people that dont belive me well all I can say is I hope it happens to you too.
I wouldnt be using a lvl 20 fonewearl if I had 1 thats lvl 157 would I ??

All I can say is dont use all 4 slots on your memeory card. Id rather it was like dc I would have only lost 1 of them.. but its probly far to late for most people anyway, seeing as u cant move any char files off the card.

[BonusKun]

Well I've been on all night as so far I count myself as one lucky sob for not having this happen.

To be honest I'm happy the mass duping got choked down even tho some people here think it got stopped totally *Dream on guys* this increased chance of getting your character fucked over isn't worth going online for awhile until Sega fixes this sloppy ass patch.

Example being friend of mine Level 179 HUmar....gone because of this patch.

Way to go Sega.

[DeathCheese87]

::clicks cancel account button::

see you guys online when this problem is fixed.

[RagMasterRappy]

Day #2 of playing with the patch and still no problems.

[rena-ko]

hm...
i must say i'm kinda confused about all this...
well...
*sips tea*

[Elusive_Llama]

Um, I just found out about this now, AFTER I just went online 3 times last night. I started my own team 3 times and had no problem bursting in (didn't even notice the double save). Is this FSOD problem only when joining a game in progress, or at any time? The only problem I had had really last night was getting booted off while I was in the middle of a job (3 times!!) >:(


Hey d00d, good to see you on this board at last. The problem happens when you FSOD while double saving, which will probably force you to turn the GC power off while it is in the middle of a save, which leads to a memory corrupt.

I don't know what to believe with regards to this problem...on one hand we have people reporting this FSOD problem. On the other, this could be a rumor started and perpetuated by dupers unhappy with this patch. Until I find out for sure, I'm going to stay offline and see how things go.

[SnAPPUrU-nyan-ko]

...When you're online and the game autosaves, such as when you drop an equipped item or exit from a telepipe, the game seems to go into a "safe frozen state". When the game does the second autosave when joining, it doesn't go into this "happy state". I guess probability isn't on our side, eh? ;3

[Kaeorii]

As rarely as I post, this is a serious thing. I had witnessed this last night with one of my best online friends.. I had just helped her to Ultimate Mode online, she was level 82...when she first FSODed in a warp, THEN FSODed at the second save coming back in. Went on AIM to talk to her, she had a character file corrupted, tried everything to fix it.. nothing. She had to start over. I am so seriously not going on till this is fixed.. last thing I need to do is lose 600+ hours and 157 levels of Ichigo.. or any of my other characters, for that matter..damn so-called patching.

[faceless]

strange how so many people would rather "to have dupes than corrupt characters"... dupers and dupe lovers coming forward to think of any excuse to go back to the way it was... don't worry, there's still a way to dupe offline...

[DeathCheese87]

wait wait wait, how does the whole corruption thing happen? is it just random, or the people who (try) to dupe? i am very confused.

[Salvo]

Great. After 3 weeks of offline training to prepare and fighting with a server that constantly boots me off for no reason, I STILL can't go online to meet my friends because everything I've accomplished will disappear in an instant. That's worth 9 bucks a month (and I'm paying in CANADIAN!!!) >:P

[Munki]

faceless, I am completely legit (ask anyone I play with), and I would MUCH rather have dupes on the servers than corrupted characters. I won't go online until I am sure my 500 hours of game time are 'protected'

DangerousDJ, it's not that I don't believe you... in fact you are the main person that made me seriously think this over. I do think it is cruel to wish a corrupted character on somebody else tho.

All I was saying earlier is that this could be a mass hysteria by the dupers to get the game back how it was. After much time and 2 friends getting corrupted, I do believe that the issue is real.

And sorry, ST is NOT just doing cell phone games. Even if they are making ports of their other games currently, ports still take work. They don't make themselves. But once again. I am not gonna fight for ST here, it serves no purpose. If you really hated ST then you wouldn't be playing anymore. So it isn't worth arguing about.

I urge everybody to write an email to sonic team, I believe you can send it to [email protected], informing them of the problems you have had with the new patch. I sent one off earlier. This way, in case they don't realize the severity of the problem, they will soon.

[Sirn]

Listen, I am not a duper, and I despise dupes (heh, just ask anyone who has seen my anti dupe tirades), and I would *MUCH* rather have duping than the risk of losing my character.

Dupes will not be going anyway, no matter how much you want them to. Even if ST has forever blocked duping, there are still plenty of dupes floating around, and nothing we say or do will change that. Unless of course ST decides to clear our inventories, which would make me quite angry, seeing as how everything I own is 100% legitimate.

The only dupe that would really bother me would be the S-Rank Needle. I say that the Needle should have just been removed from the game entirely...

So...it's either dupes or the chance of losing all the characters that you've poured so many hours into on your memory card. Which would you rather have?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sirn on 2003-01-25 10:44 ]</font>

[Kujin]

duping isn't really a problem to me. i too am 100% legit. the way i see it is playing legit is a style of playing, the same with playing with dupes. if people want to go ahead and play with dupes, go for it, doesn't bother me, and if it just so happens to, i just leave the game. no big deal. i see no point in arguing to someone who has or uses dupes to leave a game, or try and make them convert over to the "legit side."

and i would much rather have there be duping going on like it used to than a currupted character.

as i said before, if it really bothers you that much, just don't play with it, just simply leave the game and play with some good friends that you enjoy playing with, have fun!

...unless you take pleasure in bashing those "duper-users" for their way of playing the game o_o

[Sirn]

Well, the only times that dupes really bother me are when the person is constantly changing their weapon (like every enemy) to show off their dupes, or if they keep on dying. I have never seen anyone in PSO with such a lack of skill as the dupe users. As a friend of mine put it, "Dupes add stats, not skills."

Anyway, overall, i *CAN* live with dupes. It won't kill me or anyone else, but character corruption? No thanks.

[_xX_Frosty_Xx_]

Well, don't expect to see me online for a GOOD WHILE. I most likely won't be coming on unless it's something EXTREMELY important. Sonic Team messed up once again, and until they correct this problem, I'm going to be working on getting all of my chars into Ultimate.

[RagMasterRappy]

At least dupings gone for the most part.

[Munki]

Amen to that! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Now if they can just fix it so that I can go back online again...

no way are they gonna claim my characters as a 'casualty' in fixin the dupes.

[Stixxx]

well this blows

Thanx sega for making the game unsafe for us,

hummm

[Munki]

Just had a character corrupted... but in a weird way.

I was going online to do a trade, and as a precaution, I moved the items to a character on another card, to a level 1 character.

I logged on once, but then the game got stuck trying to log onto Ant 8. Then I tried to relog on... I logged on but got disconnected immediately. Game Saved. All good.

Tried a third time. Disconnected. The game then did not save for some reason. Instead I got the corrupt character file message.

Like I said, it was on a dummy trade character, and so he had very little on him. And no time invested. But still. I just wanted to let you guys know. I have no idea why it did it that way. BTW I am on Broadband.

Well, I will definately say ChibiMunki and co aren't goin online until I am sure this is all cleared up.

[Johan]

Out of curiosity, Munki, what kind of memory card were you using? 59? 251? Nintendo or third-party?

[LamerPanda]

That's the most off-topic thing I've seen all day. XD

It would explain why Luigi doesn't seem quite so interested in rescuing Peach, doesn't it? 0_o

[Munki]

Nintendo 251... I know the guy I was going to trade with was having problems connecting too...

maybe ST is doin some unnanounced maintanince? It would explain why I couldn't even get on. As for the char file getting corrupted, I coulda just been unlucky, and logged in at the wrong time. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Eden]

I can't get on now either

[Tigger]

neither can I. But at least now I know it's not a problem with my adaptor.

[jello44]

Seems that the entire US ship login went down, possibly to fix this FSODing problem? Maybe I will try loging in later with a dummy charater on another memory card.

And to the others who were corrupted by the fsod during the second save, were you using the 59 or the 251?

[Johan]

Yeah. I can't connect now either - I get the old Error 101.

I doubt it has anything to do with maintenance - there was a big DDoS attack last night against a number of backbone servers; a lot of stuff besides PSO is unreachable for me. Though I can hope - I'm using a 59 and I've never had FSOD in PSO, or item loss or any of that, but I'd rather not tempt fate http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Johan on 2003-01-25 13:12 ]</font>

[GandorDurin]

Well I just typed up a long post and tried to send it and some error came up and when I hit the back arrow it deleted everything I typed somehow.

Eh well here I go again, maybe it will work this time! =D

I've decided to stay offline until some more official info about the whole corruption issue comes out.

I came up with an idea to help people worried about file corruption. If you have a full memory card with character(s) you want to continue using online but also don't want to lose everything to a corruption, there's a way to soften the blow. If you transfer whichever characters you're not going to bring online to another memory card, then if a corruption happens you'll only lose the character you actually went online with. Now I know this means that you still won't be able to use the other characters online or even offline single player, but at least you'll be able to keep all the items as well as use them in offline multiplayer. It's better than losing everything!

I'm not entirely sure if that is a flawless method, but I'm pretty sure that would work. If anyone notices a mistake in that method, let me know.

Okay, this time I will copy this whole message so no matter what it is going to be sent out!

Good luck to anyone who chooses to still play online, I really hope no one else gets corrupted.

[Eden]

What if you transfer a char to another mem card, and if the old mem card gets corrupted you just choose to transfer it back, does this work?

[_xX_Frosty_Xx_]

I really hope they are actually fixing the problem. Even though it would result in more duping, I think they should take the second save away.

[GandorDurin]

On 2003-01-25 13:11, Eden wrote:
What if you transfer a char to another mem card, and if the old mem card gets corrupted you just choose to transfer it back, does this work?



When a memory card gets corrupted, it makes you erase everything on it, right? Or just the PSO stuff?

Either way, it means you have to start over. So, you can't return the characters back because they don't match. Even if you give them the same name and outfit and all, I doubt it would work.

But hey, for anyone who tries the method and gets corrupted, feel free to try it and let us know if it works! If it does, then I'll be back online for sure!

[Vejita]

sigh......my eyes burn

[RuneWalsh]

um give ST a break? oh wow what else should we give them along with the 8.99 a month that we pay for ... well lemme think about this .... um patches! I mean battle.net is free and they GASP patch things! you think a game like eqoa and ff11 is gona have this types of problems? this a wake up call and things are gona change REALLY SOON.


ON 02/12/03 THE GAME IS OVER!

[Munki]

The game is over! lmao!

First off, EQOA and FFXI are totally different types of games.

They are MMORPGs, whereas PSO is a diablo clone.

And you can't say that EQOA and FFXI are gonna be done better... as they haven't been yet. You have no proof to back up ANY statement you make about those games right now.

All I need to say is look at FFXI in japan... they have had FAR more than their fair share of problems. The fact of the matter is that this is still a relitively new genre for console developers.

ST does get our money, and I WOULD like to see them do more for the game... but at the same time, ST is NOT a bad developer at all... heck, they don't even have a team devoted to PSO. Why? They got other stuff they are working on. This is not their only gig, and they are not a huge EA style development house.

On top of that, the sales for PSO are ABYSMALLY bad... compared to most other games, and to what they were probably aiming at. So I can see why ST doesn't want to devote a ton of man hours to it at this point.

They are still a buisness, and they just wanna make money. If you don't like the way they keep shop, then don't bring em your buisness... that's the mighty power you have as a consumer.

*sigh*... here I am doing exactly what I didn't want to do this entire thread... I hate it when I cave in. Bah.

[neko-chan]

On 2003-01-25 16:05, Munki wrote:
ST is NOT a bad developer at all...

Sure. They are a bunch of geniuses! ^_^


heck, they don't even have a team devoted to PSO.

How do you know? >_>

Why? They got other stuff they are working on.
For example?

On top of that, the sales for PSO are ABYSMALLY bad... compared to most other games, and to what they were probably aiming at. So I can see why ST doesn't want to devote a ton of man hours to it at this point.Since the game is released under the Sega label, the bad sales numbers are a Sega/Sonic Team's fault. They made the game, but were not able to sell it. I remember a ign article about DC PSO sales. In April or March 2000, few months after the American release, Sega had over 200.000 registered hunters.

They are still a buisness, and they just wanna make money. If you don't like the way they keep shop, then don't bring em your buisness... that's the mighty power you have as a consumer.

Sure. Buy a Ford. It works perfect the first week. Then the engine refuses to work anymore. What do you do now? You go to the Ford's office asking to repair the engine or you take the bus becase, fuck, poor Ford clerks, they are working on other things, my shiny new car is not important for them. They have to make money, not waste their time repairing my car. Your car's warranty? Who cares! You're a cosumer, after all, this is your power. -_-

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: neko-chan on 2003-01-25 16:21 ]</font>

[RuneWalsh]

the sales are bad? and why? maybe because there is no CONSUMER CONFIDENCE EH first of lets set one thing straight I am a major sega fan and come from games like Miracle Warrior , phantasy stars (NOT PSO!) and the shining games.needless to say ive played (and beat) just about every sega game
they have made (the good and the bad) Munki we know each other but your comments are really way off. First thing i was a EQOA beta tester and i can say for a fact that eqoa will be WAY better then pso(a real time battle system one of the first mmorpgs to have one) and ff11 is a menu driven combat system (some what like Vagrant Story only a hard core gamer WOULD know what vagrant story is eh) Oh and as far as the post before about those bad ea coders? they have a few really good online rpgs that are MORE stable then pso ever was (Ultima Online and Earth And Beyond) Now you maybe asking yourself why do i still play pso ... well It has the name Phantasy Star and the battle system and boss battles are intense (hehe funny how DF design was tottaly STOLEN from Vagrants final boss hehe) Oh and one more thing Diablo is a not a pso clone PSO is a Diablo Clone ... nuff said.

(the comments above are by a hard-core gamer that has played many games ... rpgs , shooters, fps , rts ... a gaming junkie. I say the above not because i read it in the latest issue of egm or psm (LOL GameFan Or Gamers Republic fans? i would not think so in this board lol)

Side Note this is not a flame and i am only bringing up other company's and games due to the fact that the other people (eh if they are) have posted this banter "Oh oh ST OWN JOOO EA IS STOOPID LOL LOL LOL OMG ROFL LMAO!!!! AOL 0WNZ JOOO!!!!!!!!"

[RuneWalsh]

the sales are bad? and why? maybe because there is no CONSUMER CONFIDENCE EH first of lets set one thing straight I am a major sega fan and come from games like Miracle Warrior , phantasy stars (NOT PSO!) and the shining games.needless to say ive played (and beat) just about every sega game

they have made (the good and the bad) Munki we know each other but your comments are really way off. First thing i was a EQOA beta tester and i can say for a fact that eqoa will be WAY better then pso(a real time battle system one of the first mmorpgs to have one) and ff11 is a menu driven combat system (some what like Vagrant Story only a hard core gamer WOULD know what vagrant story is eh) Oh and as far as the post before about those bad ea coders? they have a few really good online rpgs that are MORE stable then pso ever was (Ultima Online and Earth And Beyond) Now you maybe asking yourself why do i still play pso ... well It has the name Phantasy Star and the battle system and boss battles are intense (hehe funny how DF design was tottaly STOLEN from Vagrants final boss hehe) Oh and one more thing Diablo is a not a pso clone PSO is a Diablo Clone ... nuff said.



(the comments above are by a hard-core gamer that has played many games ... rpgs , shooters, fps , rts ... a gaming junkie. I say the above not because i read it in the latest issue of egm or psm (LOL GameFan Or Gamers Republic fans? i would not think so in this board lol)



Side Note this is not a flame and i am only bringing up other company's and games due to the fact that the other people (eh if they are) have posted this banter "Oh oh ST OWN JOOO EA IS STOOPID LOL LOL LOL OMG ROFL LMAO!!!! AOL 0WNZ JOOO!!!!!!!!"

[RagMasterRappy]

On 2003-01-25 16:17, neko-chan wrote:


On 2003-01-25 16:05, Munki wrote:
ST is NOT a bad developer at all...

Sure. They are a bunch of geniuses! ^_^


Wow. What a creative bit of sarcasm. Why don't you people just leave Sonic Team alone?





heck, they don't even have a team devoted to PSO.

How do you know? >_>


She didn't mean it in that way. Sure they assigned a group of people within a team to work on the game, but that's how all software today is developed. She just mean that there wasn't a seperate division of SEGA called "PSO Team" or something.




Why? They got other stuff they are working on.
For example?


That's information the public won't have immediate access to, but I KNOW they have other projects that they need to be working on. Do you really think the updates for PSO would be so infrequent if they were ONLY working on PSO? They have to stay in business somehow.



Sure. Buy a Ford. It works perfect the first week. Then the engine refuses to work anymore. What do you do now? You go to the Ford's office asking to repair the engine or you take the bus becase, fuck, poor Ford clerks, they are working on other things, my shiny new car is not important for them. They have to make money, not waste their time repairing my car. Your car's warranty? Who cares! You're a cosumer, after all, this is your power. -_-

First of all, this is a bad analogy. If your car breaks, FORD (the original manufacturer) does not handle servicing directly. There are seperate businesses that handle such things. And it wouldn't be a hassle for anyone but yourself, because such places are more than happy to take your money in order to play around with your car. So there is no "fucking of Ford clerks" involved. But we're talking about the SOFTWARE INDUSTRY, something which is DIFFERENT from the automotive industry. They both operate differently.

[RagMasterRappy]

On 2003-01-25 16:58, RuneWalsh wrote:
they have made (the good and the bad) Munki we know each other but your comments are really way off. First thing i was a EQOA beta tester and i can say for a fact that eqoa will be WAY better then pso(a real time battle system one of the first mmorpgs to have one)

Well, lets not start comparing things which are completely different. And what's so not "real time" about PSO's combat system? Is moving and attacking not good enough?


Oh and as far as the post before about those bad ea coders? they have a few really good online rpgs that are MORE stable then pso ever was (Ultima Online and Earth And Beyond)

I would like to point out that a majority of EA branded games are games that are published by EA but developed outside of EA, just so you know.


(hehe funny how DF design was tottaly STOLEN from Vagrants final boss hehe)

It's so hard to be original these days. Why don't you also say that the bladed weapons rip off Star Wars while you're at it? I mean come on, they have SABERS with LIGHT-based BLADES in the game!


Oh and one more thing Diablo is a not a pso clone PSO is a Diablo Clone ... nuff said.

Oh really? I'd like to see what you have to say about this: http://atarilabs.com/meat/2001/0302_PSOD2.shtml


(the comments above are by a hard-core gamer that has played many games

I have also played many games. If you're really a "hardcore" gamer then I'd expect you to be less biased than you appear to be.

[Munki]

Neko, if you have such a beef with ST and PSO, why do you play the game? Cuz it's good? Cuz you like pain? Why?

I know of at least ONE title ST is workin on, and that is the Sonic Adventure port to GC (the first game, not the second). I am SURE they have many other titles, as they aren't gonna be sitting around with their hands in their pockets. I am sure they are lookin at the next Sonic game, as well as maybe a follow up to BRangers or Nights...

ST isn't a bad developer... They have made MANY MANY good titles, and have continued to do so, and will continue to do so. What have YOU done lately? Sonic Team is one of the more recognizable development teams in the industry. When ST decided which console they were gonna back up when Sega went software, MANY MANY people were watching intently to see who ST went with... why? Because they are a great high profile developer.

Heck, if MS bought Rare for so much freakin money... imagine what Sonic Team would go for?

Seriously. I agree that ST has made mistakes with the upkeep of PSO, as no developer is freakin perfect. They DON'T have a PSO trouble shooting team, they just aren't big enough for that. They probably give the PSO fixin to the junior programers. Heck it's what I would do if I was runnin things there.

In terms of ST/Sega sellin PSO poorly... well I know they weren't expecting DC numbers... ports RARELY surpass the original in sales. Also the high price thag that comes with the game I am sure factored into their estamite. They didn't sell the game short... they just were realistic. How many Joe Averages do you think are gonna fork our 90-100 bucks to play PSO online? Heck, the GC doesn't even have the biggest userbase! Unfortunately, what does that mean? That means that ST is gonna not focus their whole department on this game. They have MUCH bigger fish to fry...

[Munki]

Rune -

I am not saying that EQOA is going to be bad... but you can't base how stable the game is gonna be, nor how well they respond to problems, based on the Beta Version of the game. I have a good friend who beta tested EQOA (he didn't like either, but then again, he is a hard core EQPC gamer... different subject so I'll drop it), and I got to see the game. Yes it looks interesting (dun dig the design, but that 's me). And it is being backed by 2 very good companies with expirience in this sort of thing. So the chances are, yes, it will be more stable than PSO. But nothing is set in stone... if I recall, a year from tomorrow, everybody expected St. Louis to destroy New England in the superbowl... and look what happened there.

FFXI was WRETCHED on launch day. Square wasn't prepared for the masses. The game looked good in beta, but they didn't expect the rush they got on day 1. Nobody does. Most freakin MMORPGS suck in the first week, while the developers get things going.

On the EA subject... EA actually develops very little in house now. Even Madden isn't in house. And that is their biggest title. I am very familiar with EA's buisness stratagy, and it has to do with buy buy buy. That's all. Why am I arguing this? It is completely off topic. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

If I ever said Diablo was a PSO clone, then I apologize. I played Diablo 1 on launch day, I know that PSO looked at their design (ALOT) for this game.

[Munki]

On 2003-01-25 17:23, RagMasterRappy wrote:

Oh really? I'd like to see what you have to say about this: http://atarilabs.com/meat/2001/0302_PSOD2.shtml



MY GOD! This rules! LMAO!

[watashiwa]

This is mind boggling!

BTW, I'll probably just end up playing online with new characters, that I don't care about, on a second memory card for now. ;0;

[RuneWalsh]

This post is to the moron that wrote before chipi , i would hit the <- key on my LYNX browser but its not worth the time and effort to do such a TASK.

Yes sega and ea are PUBLISHERS eh and they have DEVELOPMENT STUDIOS eh that carry out the CREATION of these GAMES eh how am i doing ? oh and yes E&B is MADE by WEST WOOD STUDIOS eh good? you want enlighten me with any more WISDOM Capt OBVIOUS.

but i would expect nothing more then a would be HALF wit comment from a KNUCKLE dragging monkey such as yourself.

Oh and if sega is going to charge MMORPG money i would EXPECT if not DEMAND mmorpg service (but shit this is sega) Oh and Phantasy Star didnt steal the sabers from star wars because if you <rage>HAD A FUCKEN CLUE MAYBE YOU WOULD HAVE PLAYED THE OTHER PHANTASY STAR GAMES AND WOULD NOTICE THESE WEAPONS ARE IN THOSE GAMES!!!!! YOU MORON</rage> my comment about Vagrant Story (a game im sure you never played (eh or beat)) was just a shot at ST for people thinking that they some how invented the wheel http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif people like you http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif people that have no clue http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif have a GREAT day im going back to Arc The Lad and wont be on pso to much due to the fact i am scared to loose my 123 fo and my 106 hucast eh ST needs a fukn QA department (but oh shit thats all of us:)

and ps when i said that eqoa was gona have a real time battle system DID I SAY PSO DID NOT?

[Eden]

lol nice sig watashiwa

[Eden]

Um Sonic Team can be a pain in the ass sometimes but I love the game they have created and all I have to say is, If you really hate their service and think they treat their customers like shit, they aren't forcing you to pay, cancellation is only a button click away

Sure some of the stuff they do pisses me off, but I deal with it because I know not everyone is perfect, I would love to see all bugs eradicated in a single patch but hey, look at windows and microsoft. How many piece of shit windows have they released? Countless. How many people continue to put up with their bullshit? Millions

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Eden on 2003-01-25 19:19 ]</font>

[LamerPanda]

On 2003-01-25 19:13, watashiwa wrote:
BTW, I'll probably just end up playing online with new characters, that I don't care about, on a second memory card for now. ;0;

That's what I'm trying.

Problem is that I'll probably get attatched to them, and then they'll probably get corrupted. Eh. XD

[Munki]

... knuckle dragging monkey... you aren't referring to me are you Rune?

I didn't think so, but that phrase threw me for a loop. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[BurgerDog_]

I didn't lose anything, not yet at least.

[RagMasterRappy]

On 2003-01-25 19:14, RuneWalsh wrote:
Yes sega and ea are PUBLISHERS eh and they have DEVELOPMENT STUDIOS eh that carry out the CREATION of these GAMES eh how am i doing ? oh and yes E&B is MADE by WEST WOOD STUDIOS eh good? you want enlighten me with any more WISDOM Capt OBVIOUS.

You were specifically refering to EA programmers, so I was assuming that you were talking about EA as a development studio, which is not what they primarly do anymore.


but i would expect nothing more then a would be HALF wit comment from a KNUCKLE dragging monkey such as yourself.

Ok, since I assume you're talking to me (no quote included), I will quote myself now:


I would like to point out that a majority of EA branded games are games that are published by EA but developed outside of EA, just so you know.

So, tell me, how is that a "half wit comment"? I would call it reality.


Oh and Phantasy Star didnt steal the sabers from star wars because if you .. lots of pointless profanity, etc, etc .. my comment about Vagrant Story was just a shot at ST for people thinking that they some how invented the wheel http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Ok, let me put this in perspective for you.. You said:

"hehe funny how DF design was tottaly STOLEN from Vagrants final boss hehe"

(Notice the emphasis on STOLEN)

I was just saying that if you're going to bitch about something like that, you might as well complain about the fact that Star Wars is being ripped off because they have light saber equivalents in the game, because, to prove my original point, it's hard to be completely original sometimes without making it look like you stole an idea from someone else.


and ps when i said that eqoa was gona have a real time battle system DID I SAY PSO DID NOT?

I based that on what you said:
"eqoa .. (a real time battle system one of the first mmorpgs to have one)"

You said the first online RPG to have one. Well, PSO is classified as an online RPG and the fact that you said "one the first" implies that this feature was exclusive to the game that you were talking about, and that PSO doesn't have it beacuse PSO is already released.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RagMasterRappy on 2003-01-25 19:44 ]</font>

[neko-chan]

On 2003-01-25 17:10, RagMasterRappy wrote:
Wow. What a creative bit of sarcasm. Why don't you people just leave Sonic Team alone?

If not? What are you gonna do? Going to call your mom?


She didn't mean it in that way. Sure they assigned a group of people within a team to work on the game, but that's how all software today is developed. She just mean that there wasn't a seperate division of SEGA called "PSO Team" or something.

So, you are the official Munki's sidekick? ^_^ Not only this, but it seems you are a ST insider. So, it's you we all have to insult for releasing patches not tested in advance, ruining lvl 150 chara and 400 hours of game play? Uh! You are!

That's information the public won't have immediate access to, but I KNOW they have other projects that they need to be working on.

Oh! OK, if YOU know that, fine for me.


First of all, this is a bad analogy.

That was to allow jackasses like you to understand the irony behind the Munki's "customer's power". But probably your little brain is not built to detect irony. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[LollipopLolita]

stop the personal shots.

[Munki]

Wow. This argument has been... less than enjoyable. Take some debating classes. Learn to combat what others say with your own, logical remarks that are pertaninent to the debate, and further your own cause. As opposed to just cheap shots. It ain't cool that way. Sarcasm didn't win very many debates.

This is the last thing I will say on this.

As to your Ford example? You STILL do have power. You can choose to never buy a Ford again. Just as you have the power to never buy ST again. And you know what? If enough people feel the same way you do, then said company is going to feel the hurt. All this whining about how horrible Sonic Team is, and how they have done everything wrong isn't going to do anything. Sonic Team NEVER agreed to keep the servers runnin 100%. True, it is kind of expected, as we pay them money. But they aren't required by some unseen contract to fix our servers for us. If they don't fix em... well, then we will just stop playing, right?

I don't know why you have such hate towards Sonic Team, neko-chan. They musta insulted your ancestry or something. I understand that people are pissed and frustrated. I agree that sonic team SCREWED up. But ALOT of companies screw up. Heck. Sega is a great example. The way they handled the Saturn in the US? SCREW UP. The 32X? SCREW UP. But I don't see you bashing them. Unfortunately buisnesses are still run by people. And people make mistakes. FACT OF LIFE.

Going back to your car analogy. You expect your car to break eventually. You admit your car isn't perfect. You could possibly even imagine that when you take said car to get fixed, the mechanic messed things up worse (one put a sparkplug in wrong in my car once, and there was arcing electricity right next to a fuel line... he SCREWED up, neh?). Why can't you give sonic team the same luxury? If you lost your character, I apologize.

At least they attempted to fix the duping issue. They screwed something else up, but in my mind, it's better than if they just sat on their ass and did nothing.

Anyway, that's it for me. I can't take any more of this argument.

[CajunSamurai]

Sonic Team can be a pain in the ass sometimes but I love the game they have created
There we go! http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif They've been a pain in the ass for creating such as a thing called the "Spread Needle", for not developing a NiGHTS sequel (NOOOO >__<) and letting a couple major bugs slip through a few of their other games, but dammit, they're my favorite developing team ever.

Back on the topic though... I'm getting paranoid. I might just level one of my weaksauce characters online until things are fixed.

[Zero101]

LOL @ AdamW

Miss PSO world, huh? I can't believe anyone still remembers that ^_^

[Tavia]

I originally thought of participating in this argument, mainly because I also know that SonicTeam is an excellent developer. Certainly, they are porting many of their games, but this is not at all shameful. Also, if the game is good, why not give it new life on different platforms? If there's money to be made, let it be done. There's nothing wrong at all with turning as much of a profit as possible off of your work.

Further, it is a way for SonicTeam to generate revenue while working on other projects. One project which they definitely are working on is the next Sonic game, which has not yet been titled. It will not be "Sonic Adventure 3", as SonicTeam has mentioned that it will break away from the Adventure series and likely focus upon more Sonic-oriented gameplay again, probably due to the abundance of complaints. (I personally love the "Sonic Adventure" series, SA2 especially, but to each their own.) I do not believe they will make another "NiGHTS", as Naka has stated that the initial game held high artistic importance to the team, and that attempting to cash in on the franchise would blemish their initial accomplishment. (By saying so in an interview, he indirectly labeled Sonic their cash whore. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif Oh well, Mario shares the same fate.)

Note, however, that I will not put down anyone who has insulted SonicTeam. I do not believe it is something that should be argued about, since individual opinions will probably eternally differ. As others have said, if you are displeased, cancel your Hunter's License and never purchase another SonicTeam game. That will have a far more pronounced effect than merely complaining, because you will be directly affecting their bottom line.

I, personally, am unhappy that PSO online is currently an unsafe place, but I do not blame SonicTeam. They are not perfect. As has been said, they do not have a team dedicated exclusively to PSO, so it is worked on whenever it can be. Additionally, the Hunter's License fee goes to more than ST's salaries, if it even affects what they are paid at all. (If anything, it likely goes toward the paychecks of those who handle server maintenance and such.) Of course, there are people who will despise SonicTeam and curse them for making an error. As said, to each their own.

Oh, and just for the fun of it, I'd like to add that I own a Ford Mustang which I love very, very much. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[neko-chan]

OK.

DC PSO v1 = cheated to die.
DC PSO v2 = cheated to die.

GCN PSO Trial Edition = bug allowed players to "dupe", plus cheating.
GCN PSO JP v1.0 = bug allowed players to "dupe".
GCN PSO JP v1.1 = bug allows players to "dupe".
GCN PSO US ver = bug allows players to "dupe".

In addition:
DC PSO v2 = loading a quest used to reset the Dreamcast;
GCN PSO = a patch is currently destroying the save files.

Sonic Team = excellent developer.

I don't get the last equation.

[mUlTi]

If you don't get the equation, why spend the time writing 1049 posts on a messageboard related to a game made by a "bad developer"? Why not spend the time playing a game by a "good developer"? http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_confused.gif

[Tavia]

Sonic Team = excellent developer.

I don't get the last equation.

There's something missing from the entire formula: The fact that they have done much more than PSO. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif I do not gauge their status as a developer with only one game as my basis.

[Eden]

The answer to the equation is this :


People play regardless of the problems.

Why? Because PSO is a great game.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Eden on 2003-01-26 14:16 ]</font>

[Lightfeather]

On 2003-01-26 13:46, neko-chan wrote:
OK.

DC PSO v1 = cheated to die.
DC PSO v2 = cheated to die.

GCN PSO Trial Edition = bug allowed players to "dupe", plus cheating.
GCN PSO JP v1.0 = bug allowed players to "dupe".
GCN PSO JP v1.1 = bug allows players to "dupe".
GCN PSO US ver = bug allows players to "dupe".

In addition:
DC PSO v2 = loading a quest used to reset the Dreamcast;
GCN PSO = a patch is currently destroying the save files.

Sonic Team = excellent developer.

I don't get the last equation.



neko-chan = still purchases newest game

LMAO. There's a last equation for you.

[SnAPPUrU-nyan-ko]

Have you complained to customer support (http://www.sega.com/community/profiles/pso_gcn/pc_front/gcn_pc_help_contact.jhtml) yet? I sent a brief e-mail explaining that I would cancel my account if this new save could corrupt my file easily. My main reason for disliking it is that the game isn't halted when it saves.

No need to reply saying "They won't listen/do anything/you've wasted your time". I'll do it myself, so don't be redundant.

Stupid cat, like they'd even care!

[Guntz348]

On 2003-01-25 01:14, neko-chan wrote:
[quote]
On 2003-01-24 20:36, Tavia wrote:
... Mini Moni for PSone? Bwuaha. Losers.



Mini Moni kicks ass, leave them out of this http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[haterade]

On 2003-01-26 14:20, Lightfeather wrote:

neko-chan = still purchases newest game



XD

Exactly... neko, your argument is damn near pointless. This is like someone buying Nikes, having them fall apart due to bad construction, and then purchasing another pair of Nikes.

*smacks neko*

Wisen up, kiddo. You're still here paying and playing, so shut the f00k up.

[RuneWalsh]

you know what the moral of the story is? ST should not make anymore online rpgs GASP thats right, i would rather see a real pstar and all the other great games they make but if ST is not willing to spend the time to PROOF code there work and not have a GM for each server and to just have a QA dept they should just move aside. now im done here , and i said that eqoa had a real time battle system and that is a big deal due to the fact that NO MMORPG has a REAL TIME BATTLE SYSTEM. im sorry to assume that you could READ BETWEEN THE LINES and your starwars "comback" if fucktarded due to the fact that if youve played VS you would NOTICE this FACT. and munki i was not insulting you.

[Johan]

1. PSO is not an MMORPG. It's a Diablo clone, and Diablo is not an MMORPG.

2. Assuming PSO *were* an MMORPG, what isn't real-time about the battle system???

[Kasera]

On 2003-01-26 18:16, RuneWalsh wrote:
NO MMORPG has a REAL TIME BATTLE SYSTEM.


What the heck? I've played 2 MMORPGS, Ultima Online and Ragnarkok Online. *gasp* They both have real time battle systems!

[haterade]

On 2003-01-26 19:07, Johan wrote:
1. PSO is not an MMORPG. It's a Diablo clone



Wow, you are one stupid f*cker for this comment. I can't pay attention to anything else you say now.

I wish I had the URL for that site that talks about this... XD

[Johan]

I've seen that site. It's pretty funny. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Anyway, PSO is not an MMORPG by my definition of the term, which is "all characters interacting in gameplay simultaneously in a persistent world". PSO is certainly an ORPG, but it is in no means MM, since you can never have a gameplay situation where more than 4 people interact, and 4 people is hardly 'massively multiplayer'. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif IMO, the "persistent world" is the biggest factor that separates PSO's structure (the world only lasts as long as someone's in your room) from a game like EverQuest.

[RagMasterRappy]

Ahem
http://atarilabs.com/meat/2001/0302_PSOD2.shtml

[Tiso]

Hello, I wanted to add my two cents on this. Now I like Sonic Team, but I'm not going to praise them. I totally hate PSO, it sucked when it first came out, it still sucks, but I got it, don't know why but I did. This company has made some great games that I have had the honor of playing. But as of late, they are making some bad choices. Making PSO for XBOX, why is god's name would they even take a chance on that pile of crap system. Then they add voice chat and a new character class, and now I think the GCN version is lacking, no downloadable quests, the GBA games don't exist really. It's not living up to standards I'd expect.

Personally, Sonic Team had no right to make a Phantasy Star game, they didn't make the old ones, they had no right to this new series. When ver.1 came out, it was good, until you get to level 50 and question why the hell do you play when all you do is play 4 levels. There was no exploring the world, just 4 dungeons, and we all know how much caves are hated in the PSO world. I seriously think there could've been more in the dungeons than that. Then for the gamecube version, all they did was just port it instead of just making it anew. Sonic Team is good, but how good, not. Take a look at their past choices.

PSO:

ver 1 - has bugs, duping (but I seriously really don't see this as a big problem), then there was PKing, cheating, lack of story WHATSOEVER.

ver 2 - was a little improvement, but seriously how much of a big improvement was it. A bare little more of the rares, the challenge mode and battle mode were nice, soccer was just stupid but why take it out now. Ver2 made ver1 look like a beta testing game compared to it. Still no story, no depth.

ep1&2 - this is the definitive version. Sonic Team impressed me with the updates they made with this port. Not only did we get an entire new game, we got newer weapons, we got the same old rares and other cool stuff REDONE and now having a crappy varista isn't so crappy since it looks so cool now or having a flowen sword doesn't look like a regular sword. Not to mention, you can actually sort of picture a story in there, which is good. But in the end, all this falls short. This new double save FSOD problem, no downloadable quests, lack of downloadable GBA mini-games, then there's the fact that Sonic Team would release the game knowing that neither Sega nor Nintendo or any other 3rd party developer had made a keyboard for the USA GCN. That's like playing that stupidly insane priced $200 dollar game for XBOX that has a 150 dollar control pad, where you just buy the game alone for 50 but never got the control pad and then try to play it but really can't. You sort of understand right?

Then there's the porting of Sonic Adventure 1. Seriously, it looked like it could've been on N64, although Sonic did look different from what I saw, but from what I'm hearing the port is just utter crap. Then Sonic Megacollection was an utter waste of time. Seriously. It's almost as stupid as the reason why we don't have RE2,3 and CV remade like RE1 and RE0. There's no possible way we could not had more games like Sonic CD both USA and Jap music on it. Not to mention it was an utter crappy lineup and it was so salty that your secret games were just Sonic and Knuckles: Sonic 3, S&K: Sonic 2, S&K: Sonic 1, some other game. How can 3 games that you should get automatically if you have S&K and the other 3 games in the series not been included? Rather stupid!

But back to PSO. Yes, I have to blame Sonic Team. Other projects, bah seriously. What ST should do is not had made PSO a big deal and only supported it on one system and PC. Why XBOX would have it makes no sense, having it on Gamecube only, and dropping off the DC version finally would've been better.

Seriously, and who else is not mad at them? What the heck are we paying for? Seriously! PSOver1 had no crap about server maintance this and that, then we get ver 2 and wow we have to pay yet we still payed for a game that had cheating and hacking and crap but the good thing about that was it's price. They said it was 14.99 or so but it was like 6-15, and I was only paying 7 dollars every 3 months. What gives Sonic Team the right to pay for a game that we got for 7-15 some months ago, seriously? This gives us the false notion that wow these servers are not without trouble, no hacking, no troubles, sure, I guess my 8.95 pays to stop FSOD and stuff, oh wait, it doesn't.

So, I will continue to play PSO until as long as I see fit, as for Sonic Team, they are good, and I like their classics, but they need to take PSO seriously and stop BSing the consumers.

[TeK-DEL0REAN]

On 2003-01-25 16:56, RuneWalsh wrote:
I am a major sega fan and come from games like Miracle Warrior , phantasy stars (NOT PSO!) and the shining games.
Miracle warriors owned. remember Zillion?


(only a hard core gamer WOULD know what vagrant story is eh)
Vagrant story Owned. Originality...


(LOL GameFan Or Gamers Republic fans? i would not think so in this board lol)
Ahh Diehard GAMEFAN Magazine R.I.P. they even had a store out here..

Back on topic. Why blame Sonic team? lets blame the LOWLIFES who have nothing better to do than sit there for hours figuring out how to manipulate and cheat an excellent game. If the game wasn't excellent why pay money to play it? Why are dupers paying money to "hack"/"manipulate" a game? Ok so if you accept dupes maybe you aren't a lowlife, just someone who has no skill and patience to EARN rares on your own.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TeK-DEL0REAN on 2003-01-28 02:07 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TeK-DEL0REAN on 2003-01-28 02:30 ]</font>

[Tavia]

On 2003-01-27 19:11, Tiso wrote:
Personally, Sonic Team had no right to make a Phantasy Star game, they didn't make the old ones, they had no right to this new series.

Yuji Naka's first dev team made "Phantasy Star I" before SonicTeam by that name -- and Sonic the Hedgehog -- even existed. So, while the rest of his current team may not be familiar with the history of PS, Naka more than has the right to be involved with the creation of a "Phantasy Star" game. Now, considering that he is the head of SonicTeam...

I would respond to the rest of your post, but it is mostly you venting your personal opinions, so I'll leave that be. Simply wanted to throw in my knowledge of "Phantasy Star" development history.