Deffense or Evasion?

[Longinous]

Which of these stats takes more priority when it comes to stat mitigation?

I know DEF will make me take less damage when i get hit, but EVA means I can nullify incoming damage occasionally I am just not sure which is generally preferred, I am leaning towards DEF but thats mainly because I just am not sure how well EVA scales with stats.

the reason I ask is I am actually considering remaking my main character which is a Fomar, when I was leveling I had no clue i had a maximum amount of materials i could pop and I am now regretting just popping everyone I picked up.

right now my plan is as follows:

Materials (205)
MATS BONUS
POW 55 ATP 110
MST 105 MST 210
LCK 45 LCK 90

MAG
STAT LVL
def 10
dex 50
mnd 70
pow 70

This is enough to max out my ATP, MST, ATA, and LCK
It also leaves me with 45 materials to go in either DEF or EVA.
keep in mind I don't really know if armor's allow you to pass the EVA and DEF limit so maybe a mix in the stats may be preferred anyhow any help would be great as it seems I have much work to do.

While I am here what slots would be suggested at this point? I have a god/battle available already. Is it worth using revival slots and do they stack, or should i just use resistance and cure slots based on the situation?

(BTW if i was wrong with any of my guestimation as far as mats and mag leveling please let me know I put it all together really quick)

[goku4ever]

I believe the general consensus is evasion because when you get knocked down after getting back up there is a second or two where you are invincible. Or is that the other way round?

[Magus_84]

I believe the general consensus is evasion because when you get knocked down after getting back up there is a second or two where you are invincible. Or is that the other way round?

Getting knocked down does give you a brief window of invincibility. Especially on Fomar, this is a great asset. You get knocked down if you take 25% or more of your maximum HP in damage in one hit.

Defense and Evasion are not as useful as they could be. Mainly because both only defend against ATP-based attacks ("physicals"), and the majority of the really dangerous attacks in the game are not physicals. They're either set-damage (Delbiter charge, Morfos Laser, Bringer's Rifle charge shot, etc), status effect (Lily Paralysis, assuming you're staying close to avoid Megid) elemental (Gibbon Zonde, Epsilon Rafoie, etc) or instant-kill (Mericarol spit). Neither Defense nor Evasion defend against these

Still, they do have their uses. Especially in Episode 1, where the vast majority of the enemies use physicals.

Boosting defense is far better on Fomar, for several reasons. For one, it gives you more control. Defense is static, and reliable. It always reduces the same amount of damage. EVP gives you a % chance to block, if your EVP is high enough to beat the enemy's ATA part of the time. If you fail to "EVP Evade", the stat is useless. You can supplement your DFP score with Jellen and Deband, or you can choose to not cast one or the other to ensure you get knocked down. With EVP, you just have to hope it kicks in when you want it, and fails to kick in when you don't.

Additionally, it is possible to "block" with either. If the damage the enemy does is 0 (achieved by having a decent base DFP score, boosting with Deband and lowering enemy ATP with Jellen), you will always go into a "block" animation when they hit you. You get pushed back, and can take status effects from the hit (Like Slow from a Gilchic punch), but you take no damage. This is an easy way to negate the threat from most of the grunts before Ruins/CCA.

This "Defense evade" is possible for Fomar far, far sooner than Evading by EVP. As in, about 70 levels sooner, thanks to Deband and Jellen. With the high ATA scores of later enemies, Fomar is incapable of getting enough EVP to block their hits even part of the time. For stuff like Del D and grunts of that level. That's "incapable" even with maxed natural EVP and the highest EVP shield and armor he can equip, along with a cane-type. Yet he can begin defense-evading the lower tier grunts in Ultimate Forest and Caves at a fairly early level. At higher levels, you can sometimes do this against offline Ruins enemies.

Fomar's EVP stops growing naturally at level 180. That should tell you a lot right there. As someone who typically makes mat plans out of sheer boredom, I generally don't advise putting any materials towards Evasion on Fomar. Or Fomarl, Fonewm, Humar, Hunewearl, Hucast, Racast, Racaseal or Ramar. >_> The benefit gained from going from base EVP to max EVP on those characters is minuscule compared to the benefit you could get by throwing those materials into any other stat. I understand yellow text is a popular fetish, but it generally doesn't have much of an in-game justification for those characters.

Ramarl, Fonewearl and an EVP-built Hucaseal (read: one that ignores DFP, for the most part, and uses weapons/shields with high EVP) are about the only characters that I can justify using Evade mats on. Ramarl has all-around high stats, which leads to a lot of materials needed, but she also has an EVP score high enough to occasionally EVP evade even the tough stuff.

Fonewearl...really doesn't have many other stats to boost that give much of a noticeable difference in-game. Her MST is a statistical black hole: You can pour resources in to boost it, but you won't see much of a difference in anything other than the amount your Resta heals, due to the effed up way technique damage is nerfed by Ultimate resistances. Her DFP and ATP are ridiculously easy to max if you choose, and her ATA has to be maxed without mats. Due to her low max ATP, LCK doesn't benefit her as much as any other character. However, her ATP needs to be boosted to equip certain weapons, so it's a decent investment anyway. EVP kinda wins by default.

Hucaseal has to make some conscious gear choices, such as forgoing S-Parts' ATA boost, and using her limited allotment of mats left over after ATP and LCK are taken care of on EVP instead of DFP. But it does sorta pay off in the end. BB makes this easier, as Jizai and Blue Odoshi Violet Nimaidou both give a ton of EVP.

For every other character, they either have an EVP score too low to block the stuff they can't defense-evade (Forces other than Fonewearl, Hucast, Racast, Ramar), they need every bit of their mats and mag to cover their base stats and a stat they excel in (ATA/ATP/LCK and DFP, respectively, for Racaseal), they have trouble covering their base and meeting all their weapon equipping needs (Humar's MST, for Holy Ray), or they have trouble even maxing ATP/ATA/LCK without extensive unit use (Hunewearl).

Huney would be another good choice for maxing EVP on, if her base-max stat differences weren't so ungodly high.

Your mileage may vary on all the "recommendations" above, but I hope it's useful.

[Longinous]

wow I always wandered why I blocked so much when def was boosted and made me wander what exactly EVA did, thank you sir yes I must agree DEF does seem a bit more reliable for me and I know how amazing buffing my armor and decreasing the enemies damage makes it for me in Ultimate so i think I am gonna go DEF for sure.

I actually re-thunk some of my original choices on how to level my mag and mat feeding, now i am leaning more towards this setup:


MAG
STAT LVL BONUS
def 5 DEF 5
dex 50 ATA 25
mnd 75 MST 150
pow 70 ATP 140

Materials (250)
MATS BONUS
POW 55 ATP 110
DFP 50 DFP 100
MST 100 MST 200
LCK 45 LCK 90

FINAL STATS
ATP 250
DEF 105
MST 350
ATA 25
LCK 90

basically avoiding levels to def on mag helped me squeeze in more in the long run and also made my mag a little bit more mage-ish for when i want to lend it out.

Anyhow I need to get to work scrapping my old Fomar for this one is gonna set me back a bit but i think the over all outcome will be pretty much better then my original material popping Fomar.

Magus with a God/battle filling one of my slots and a Sacred Cloth for higher levels what would you say is best in other slots? I have a High level Redria and Oran for farming atm, working on a Viridia and Pinkal atm and considering making this new Fomar either Yellow or White ID.

[Magus_84]

wow I always wandered why I blocked so much when def was boosted and made me wander what exactly EVA did, thank you sir yes I must agree DEF does seem a bit more reliable for me and I know how amazing buffing my armor and decreasing the enemies damage makes it for me in Ultimate so i think I am gonna go DEF for sure.

I actually re-thunk some of my original choices on how to level my mag and mat feeding, now i am leaning more towards this setup:


MAG
STAT LVL BONUS
def 5 DEF 5
dex 50 ATA 25
mnd 75 MST 150
pow 70 ATP 140

Materials (250)
MATS BONUS
POW 55 ATP 110
DFP 50 DFP 100
MST 100 MST 200
LCK 45 LCK 90

FINAL STATS
ATP 250
DEF 105
MST 350
ATA 25
LCK 90

basically avoiding levels to def on mag helped me squeeze in more in the long run and also made my mag a little bit more mage-ish for when i want to lend it out.

Anyhow I need to get to work scrapping my old Fomar for this one is gonna set me back a bit but i think the over all outcome will be pretty much better then my original material popping Fomar.

Magus with a God/battle filling one of my slots and a Sacred Cloth for higher levels what would you say is best in other slots? I have a High level Redria and Oran for farming atm, working on a Viridia and Pinkal atm and considering making this new Fomar either Yellow or White ID.

Well, depends on what version you're on. GC has a few fairly decent choices. BB has an orgy of high-powered goodies sufficient to melt even the hardest of hearts, and turn you into a walking demigod.

I think you're on GC. As such, your choices are considerably more limited. God/Arm is excellent for about the first half of your growth, as you'll need maxed ATA to even begin hitting things consistently in Ultimate. After about 150, a high-enough-dex Mag can sorta replace this, but since you're making a max stat mag, I'd suggest you keep it around.

One thing I was a huge fan of on my Fomar was Cure/ units. Generally speaking, if you throw all the fleshies in a room together and ask someone to pick which one is most likely to consistently cast Anti, Fomar should be at the top of the list. Being protected against status effects means that you can cure others of statii, or heal them in a timely manner.

Cure/Shock, Cure/Confuse and Cure/Freeze being the most all-round useful. Cure/Shock is available from Redria Hildeblues, so you can get that one. Cure/Confuse is a pain if you aren't Yellowboze, but is available from Yellowboze Nar Lilies in VH Caves very easily. Cure/Freeze is an enormous pain no matter who you are, but the most reliable way to get it (not "easiest"...there is no "easy" way) is going to be Whitill's drop from Very Hard Pouillies.

If you're forced to choose between Yellowboze or Whitill, Cure/Freeze would get a bit higher prioirity, in my eyes. Freeze will generally kill you, unless you're either very lucky or very good at breaking out of it. Confuse will generally just be an annoyance, unless you're very unlucky or very bad at casting Anti. Tower is the biggest place where Cure/Confuse is useful, as being pelted with ranged Confusion sucks when you're surrounded by stuff that can kill you by glaring at you funny.

If you're some bionic-thumbed wunderkind at breaking out of Freeze, Cure/Freeze will be less useful for you. Cure/Shock is all-around useful, but you already have a way to get that in your Redria. Cure/Paralysis would be good until you hit 144, as it makes Temple and Caves far easier. I think it's available from something in Very Hard Mines, on Redria. Unless I'm mistaken.

Other than Cure/ units, there aren't many other options. Perfect/Resist is available rather easily from Whitill, and can be useful when up against Falz or Epsilon. Though, in areas where elemental resists are really useful, it's generally a good idea to go with one of the more targetted non-rare slot units that gives +15 (Resist/Devil, etc).

God/HP is good, especially until you get your full assortment of HP mats eaten. Fomar can't survive a full-power online Bringer's Rifle shot til about 196, even with full HP mat usage. God/HP helps with this.

Check the database on drops for some of these, as I don't recall all of them off the top of my head.

[Ketchup345]

My memory recalls a consensus saying DFP is preferred on most characters, as it can help prevent what I'll call a "blocking freeze" where your character gets stuck blocking repeatedly and it reduces overall damage. EVP only gets truely high enough on a few characters, I think RAmarl, HUcaseal, and FOnewearl to be effective.

[HeartBreak301]

I've always gone with DFP, if your char gets naturally high EVP thats great but you see how much EVP you get when you level up right? Well because of that high amount you get when you level up that means that you need a high amount to make any sort of difference, I've always referred to Evasion Materials as poison for the fact that you would have to use all your materials on EVP to make any sort of difference, so yeah in short using EVP materials is a waste.

[Splash]

My memory recalls a consensus saying DFP is preferred on most characters, as it can help prevent what I'll call a "blocking freeze" where your character gets stuck blocking repeatedly and it reduces overall damage. EVP only gets truely high enough on a few characters, I think RAmarl, HUcaseal, and FOnewearl to be effective.

Only when the DFP comes out extremely high and the monster has low ATP, and that does not happen unless you happen to Deband yourself and Jellen everything.

It is also worth noting that if you are online, high DFP can cause you to get "hit chained" and you can easily die because of this. If you are offline, then this wouldn't be a problem since you get that invincibility moment.

[Magus_84]

Only when the DFP comes out extremely high and the monster has low ATP, and that does not happen unless you happen to Deband yourself and Jellen everything.

It is also worth noting that if you are online, high DFP can cause you to get "hit chained" and you can easily die because of this. If you are offline, then this wouldn't be a problem since you get that invincibility moment.

It's not just due to high DFP. Set damage attacks and elemental attacks can do this too, though they mainly only come into play on the high HP droids. Hit chaining happens when you're in a position to receive multiple hits in a row that don't knock you down. This tends to happen more on physicals.

An individual hit has to do 25% or more of your max HP to knock you down. When you're knocked down, you have a brief invincibility window as you get up, time enough to cast a tech. Since enemies tend to wander off after knocking you down, this is a valuable respite.

Try to aim for either defense-evading (take 0 damage) or getting knocked down (take more than 25% of your max HP on a hit). This is, oddly enough, easier to do on Forces. High HP, high DFP classes without their own Jellen and Deband tend to suffer the most from being physically chained to death.

Then again, it's pretty much always a good idea to attempt to dodge. Physical attacks all require close proximity, and through use of weapons and movement, you can limit the chances you have to take a physical hit. All in all, that's better than relying on DFP or EVP.

Kinda like comparing defensive driving with a stock seatbelt (base DFP) to driving like a bat out of hell with a 5-point racing harness (running around with excessive DFP mat use and no sense of tactics). The former's far safer than the latter.