H&S 25 Justice or M&A60 Vise

[Ceej]

im a level 61 hucast and im using my friends M&60 Vise until he turns level 40 which is very soon. I only have a gatling +9. My question is whether or not i should hunt for my own M&60 Vise or hunt for a H&S 25 Justice instead. it seems a little harder to do since vhard is still a little challenging for me. i thought the drop rates were balanced for each id but i just found two last survivors at once. is it totally impossible for me to find a H&S 25 Justice

[Freeze]

First of all you need to remove the name of the server from your post. Against forum rules, According to the drop charts your skyly doesn't get either mechgun. If you want to know what you get its a good place to start.

[Ceej]

my bad about the server name. thanks.

[Jaspaller]

Both of them are decent. Go for whichever enemy you see more of... or you can just find a pair of mechs with hit. That will do a pretty good job as well.

[DC_PLAYER]

get the M&A60 VISE, that weapon has bersek, with the proper hit% it can turn that weapon into a killing machine.
if you fight the dragon boss with those and aply the special then the results can be very good, i would use it on a boss that has a risk to hit you, since bersek drains hp you can die.

[Splash]

My HUmar was lucky enough to find a 25 hit pair of Vises in hard difficulty. It's berserk special made things so much easier to clear. It really doesn't have any comparison, Vises would just gun everything down almost.

[Aisha_Clan-Clan]

Charge Mechs are realy good too, along with Demon's and Gush.

[Magus_84]

Charge Mechs are realy good too, along with Demon's and Gush.

Demon's and Gush, unless they're on S-Ranks, would be reduced on a mechgun. Or a sword, dagger, partisan, slicer or shot, for the record.

Meaning in the case of Gush; instead of, say, draining 120 HP per shot, they'll only drain about 40. Unless you can hit with a special on all three shots of a three special combo, you're likely going to end up doing NSS combos, or NHS. This means you'd drain 360 with an SSS, 240 with a NSS and 120 with a NHS combo, assuming all hits connect. Not horrible, but not much when your max HP is as high as the droids get. Fleshies get Resta, so it's not an issue for them.

Reduction is more of an issue for Demon's than Gush. Demon's, on a non-droid, normally works like this: You either hit or miss after taking your ATA vs the enemy EVP into account. If you hit, you go to the next step. If you miss, you miss. Then you have a 50% chance to have Demon's activate. This is a static number and cannot be increased. If you win this coin toss, you see the little glyph pop up, and the enemy's current HP gets cut by 75%.

On droids, it's a bit different. Instead of cutting current HP by 75%, it cuts it by 45%. Still occasionally useful, but not nearly as good as what the non-droids get.

But then you throw multi-target/multi-hit reduction into play. Take the number it cuts enemy HP by, and divide it by 3. Meaning a fleshie would drop enemy HP by 25% upon a successful Demon's hit and activation. A droid would drop enemy HP by 15% upon a successful Demon's hit and activation.

By looking at that, you're probably inclined to say "oh, that's not so bad. Hitting three times ends up with the same effect." For that, I point you to the 50% activation rate, mentioned above. Giving it 3x as many chances to fail for the same effect is debatably useful on a fleshie with low ATP. On a droid, the effect will be weaker than just shooting them.

Now, S-Rank mechs aren't subject to these limitations. So Gush would steal 120 HP per successful hit. Demon's would cut current HP by 75% upon each successful activation. Three successful activations of unreduced fleshie Demon's leaves pretty much any enemy near death. As a human Ranger, if you Freeze beforehand, you get six tries, assuming NSS. Or if you go with Gush, NSS will get you ~720 HP back per combo.

On other characters, it doesn't work as well. Their base ATA is too low. Your mileage may vary.

Charge is astoundingly good. Especially since the Sacrificials (Charge, Berserk, Spirit) are unaffected by reduction, on any weapon.

[Taleck]

get the M&A60 VISE, that weapon has bersek, with the proper hit% it can turn that weapon into a killing machine.
if you fight the dragon boss with those and aply the special then the results can be very good, i would use it on a boss that has a risk to hit you, since bersek drains hp you can die.

First of all, EFF!! MAGUS IS A POST MASTER!!!!

Second: Vises rule, did the thing in Hugo's vid, except I did it with vises on the Ultimate dragon. I'm teh happy. I'm level 139 though, so.

If anything, hunt for Vises with hit. H&S look cool, but the special is pretty much ineffective.

[Magus_84]

First of all, EFF!! MAGUS IS A POST MASTER!!!!

Second: Vises rule, did the thing in Hugo's vid, except I did it with vises on the Ultimate dragon. I'm teh happy. I'm level 139 though, so.

If anything, hunt for Vises with hit. H&S look cool, but the special is pretty much ineffective.

Nah, I'm just long-winded. >_>

One good way to go for Vises with hit, if you have online access (through whatever method that may or may not exist) is to do the Phantasmal World quests to get "Lucky Coins", then do Nol Roulette.

Depending on your character class, you get a chance at certain weapons when you land on Nol. They are always the basic 9* rares, and always have hit%, between 10% and 80%.

At least on GC:

Forces get Sabers, Slicers and Mechguns.

Rangers get Rifles, Shotguns and Handguns.

Hunters get Swords, Daggers and Partisans.

With a Force, you have a chance at getting a Vise with guaranteed hit. Or a Justice, or a Combat. Any of the three with high hit would be good, but the Vises are probably best. Diska of Braveman's another good find.

[Ceej]

where is the phantasmal quests?

[DC_PLAYER]

either have pso ep1&2 plus or play online.

[AlexCraig]

The Phantasmal quests are not on PSO+

[DC_PLAYER]

oh, sorry, i confused them with the tower quests