Democrats agree to expand on warrantless spying and grant telecoms immunity.

[Shadowpawn]

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/06/dems-agree-to-e.html

In case you've been living under a rock for the past seven years, under the Bush Administration intelligence operatives were given the illegal right to use telecoms to eavesdrop on anyone they deem fit without a warrant. This was apart of the "Patriot Act". Now as telecoms face legal consequence for their actions along side the Administration it appears that the Democrats finally gave in and decided to not only stop seeking action against the telecoms but also expand the operations that were already taking place.

So what does this mean? It means the government now has a legal right to search your personal information without your knowledge or admission and can now do so without court approve. This means they can go to any telecom or information database company and demand information. Those who oppose will be held in contempt.

Of course, no one pushed for immunity of the telecoms more than Bush. Bush threaten to veto any bill not giving telecoms immunity for their actions.

For anyone that wants to the see actual bill it will find it here. (http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/files/fisa_bill1.pdf)

Personally I find it a bit disturbing that Senate is enacting this bill and enabling intelligence agencies the power to this. It getting the point that the Government will use Terrorism as a catalysis to augment their own powers to supposedly protect us from this ominous danger that threatens our lives AT ALL TIMES. Almost Brave New World-ish, really, dupe the masses by invoking fear and use that as a means of empowering yourself.
Not to mention that Bush is clearly exerting what little power he has left by invoking vetos on any bill he doesn't approve of. Speaking of which, doesn't anyone find it odd that the president seemly has unlimited veto-ing power? There really should be a limit for that.

Anyway, tl;dr, shit sucks. The government shouldn't have the power to spy on whomever the hell they want without just cause.

Discuss, cuss and fuss.

[AC9breaker]

All I can say is, lmao at all the hard left wing loonies.

[Rayokarna]

Oh geez, only in America it will happen at a public level. I really do feel for you...

[CelestialBlade]

I'd be angered if I wasn't sure they were doing it before.

[Zantra]

They've had our info since birth...

Social security, finger prints, blood type... everything.

Spy away! USA!

[ShadowDragon28]

" Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both. " - Benjamin Franklin

" When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out."

http://www.proliberty.com/observer/bush1984.jpg
Big brother watches over all, welcome to "1984".... *sigh*

[Randomness]

The problem of course is the way politics works. Do nothing, and wait out bush-risk losing election to attacks for doing that. Do this-get attacked. Do that-get attacked.

I'm personally waiting for politicians to sink to attacking candidates for shoplifting a candy bar at age 5 or something.

[CelestialBlade]

The problem of course is the way politics works. Do nothing, and wait out bush-risk losing election to attacks for doing that. Do this-get attacked. Do that-get attacked.

I'm personally waiting for politicians to sink to attacking candidates for shoplifting a candy bar at age 5 or something.
Oh I know. It's gotten downright annoying in Kentucky.

Candidate 1: WELL I WAS RAISED ON A LITTLE TINY FARM AND HAD TO WORK SOOOOOO HARD FOR A CRUMB OF BREAD THEN I MAGICALLY APPEARED IN POLITICS AND HAVE TONS OF MONEY

Candidate 2: YEAH WELL I WAS SOLD INTO SLAVERY IN THE CIVIL WAR THEN FOUND A TIME MACHINE AND GOT INTO POLITICS

Candidate 1: OH YEAH WELL I GOT SHOT WITH A MACHINE GUN 392817393 TIMES IN THE FACE BUT LIVED TO TELL ABOUT IT AS A GREAT AMERICAN HERO, BECAUSE I WAS SHOT

Candidate 2: SHUT UP I WILL WIN THIS POVERTY FIGHT!

[Randomness]

I'm still waiting for the candidate who has the guts to tell the others to shut up about things that aren't relevant. (Without being a hypocrite in the process)

[Shiro_Ryuu]

All I can say is, lmao at all the hard left wing loonies.

Democrats left-wing? When was this? They're more to the center / slightly left to center, but I still would hardly call them a left-winged party, although I would definitely call Republicans fascists and Nazis. But yeah, I agree a lot with Shadowdragon's post.

[Dangerous55]

although I would definitely call Republicans fascists and Nazis.


Republicans? The party of tiny government? Sorry, you're wrong. Bush is neither a fascist or a Nazi. Not even close. Suggesting it shows a very, very, very poor grasp of politics and history.


Now on the topic, I always find it interesting how left wing people go against the government spying, and saying Bush is a tyrant, etc. Then they support gun control.

Whaaa?

[Deja]

Look, I have nothing to hide. If they want to find out how tall I am, where I work, where I've been, who I've called, that's fine. It's not like the government can hook us up to some kind of machine and sap our personality away.

There is nothing to worry about if you are a normal American. I'd gladly sacrifice some of my privacy (hell, they only see stuff that most people know about me) so that the government and this nation can protect itself. I'd rather them overhear my boring conversation with my grandma instead of a nuke blowing up in some city.

[Dangerous55]

Look, I have nothing to hide. If they want to find out how tall I am, where I work, where I've been, who I've called, that's fine. It's not like the government can hook us up to some kind of machine and sap our personality away.

There is nothing to worry about if you are a normal American. I'd gladly sacrifice some of my privacy (hell, they only see stuff that most people know about me) so that the government and this nation can protect itself. I'd rather them overhear my boring conversation with my grandma instead of a nuke blowing up in some city.

That isn't the problem. The problem is that they will take this step, then do something else like Oh I don't know, have every baby with a chip in them. To follow will be something else, then something else, before you know it they are telling you what you can and cannot eat(already trying that).

We don't need a bigger more powerful government, we need a smaller one.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Republicans? The party of tiny government? Sorry, you're wrong. Bush is neither a fascist or a Nazi. Not even close. Suggesting it shows a very, very, very poor grasp of politics and history.


Now on the topic, I always find it interesting how left wing people go against the government spying, and saying Bush is a tyrant, etc. Then they support gun control.

Whaaa?

This coming from the guy who called Obama a Socialist.

[Dangerous55]

This coming from the guy who called Obama a Socialist.

He is.He is.He is.He is.He is.He is.He is.He is.He is.


You called Republicans Nazis.

I called Obama a socialist.

What is closer to reality?

[CelestialBlade]

Bush is just an idiot, the problem lies in the ones pulling his strings. They know that Bush'll do anything for them.

Different president won't change much, in the big picture.

[RuneLateralus]

Now on the topic, I always find it interesting how left wing people go against the government spying, and saying Bush is a tyrant, etc. Then they support gun control.

Whaaa?

I know. It is like that Republicans claim to support states' rights for making their own laws, but when something like medical marijuana is passed within states, they don't seem to be afraid of supporting federal raids on the marijuana clinics.

Our government is filled with hypocrites and liars.

[Dangerous55]

I know. It is like that Republicans claim to support states' rights for making their own laws, but when something like medical marijuana is passed within states, they don't seem to be afraid of supporting federal raids on the marijuana clinics.

Our government is filled with hypocrites and liars.


Truth.

[Sord]

political horseshoe anyone?

[CelestialBlade]

I know. It is like that Republicans claim to support states' rights for making their own laws, but when something like medical marijuana is passed within states, they don't seem to be afraid of supporting federal raids on the marijuana clinics.

Our government is filled with hypocrites and liars.
Always has been, always will be. The President is nothing but a media and public relations tool.

[Zantra]

Republicans? The party of tiny government? Sorry, you're wrong. Bush is neither a fascist or a Nazi. Not even close. Suggesting it shows a very, very, very poor grasp of politics and history.


Now on the topic, I always find it interesting how left wing people go against the government spying, and saying Bush is a tyrant, etc. Then they support gun control.

Whaaa?

Bush isn't a tyrant... Tyrants are smart.

[Dangerous55]

Bush isn't a tyrant... Tyrants are smart.



Hilarious.

[Solstis]

Bush is smart (above average IQ, I think?), but apparently not in the way that makes an effective or tactful president.

[Randomness]

IQ doesn't mean much outside of school...

There are some areas where a large government is helpful, and others where it isnt. I like a good transportation network, I like charitable programs. I don't think the government needs to be butting in on primarily religious matters.

[CelestialBlade]

IQ means nothing, I think he makes it painfully obvious that he's an idiot.

Government wouldn't be butting in on religious matters if some religious members would stop trying to make themselves part of the government. Look at how many of our laws have Christian roots, when we're supposed to be a country where we can worship whatever we want. At least we're actually making progress in this department, given that homosexual marriage is becoming more and more accepted.

[Shadowpawn]

To be honest, it really isn't any of our concern of homosexual marry or not. The whole "marriage should be between a man and a woman" thing wasn't really much of an issue until the republicans decided to make it an issue, during an election period at that. Way to feed off deep seating bigotry.

[Dangerous55]

Just because you disagree with someone, that does not mean they are an idiot.


Just because you disagree with someone, that does not mean they are an idiot.

Just because you disagree with someone, that does not mean they are an idiot.

Just because you disagree with someone, that does not mean they are an idiot.
Just because you disagree with someone, that does not mean they are an idiot.

[Abashi76]

Democrats left-wing? When was this? They're more to the center / slightly left to center, but I still would hardly call them a left-winged party, although I would definitely call Republicans fascists and Nazis. But yeah, I agree a lot with Shadowdragon's post.

Same here. Most Democrats would be considered center or even right at times in other countries.

[BlaizeYES]

i just liked the title. for a split second, i thought, "who the hell is this democrates guy, and why is he still alive? shouldnt he be dead along with all the other ancient greek philosophers?"

[Shadowpawn]

i just liked the title. for a split second, i thought, "who the hell is this democrates guy, and why is he still alive? shouldnt he be dead along with all the other ancient greek philosophers?"


Heh, a Rene Descartes joke.

[Zantra]

Bush is smart (above average IQ, I think?), but apparently not in the way that makes an effective or tactful president.

Trust me, the years of coccaine addiction and alcohol abuse, have killed any form of intelligent and rational thought that the man has ever had.

[Wyndham]

remember the words of Berchibold B Barlow:
only turkeys have left wings.

[Eihwaz]

And while we sit around making witty jokes about President Bush's lack of intelligence and Obama's socialism, the government continues to expand its authority past its reasonable bound. Enjoy being able to make jokes about elected officials while you can, I suppose.