Is microsoft REALLY trying to scam me?

[Dizqard]

I had an Xbox Live account, Dizqard, that I played PSU on. I had to cancel it, though, because my CoD4 and Halo scores were raped by my younger siblings. I turned off the live account on it, and I made a new one that I am currently using. I took a break from PSU at this time.

Fast forward about 3 months to a week ago. I wanted to start PSU again, so I go to add a month of gold to Dizqard so I could transfer my expansion and other costly item (Like they has previously said that I could), and it won't work. So I called Microsoft. They said I had to have money on the card, and not a code, to be able to put my account online. I thought "Why would they need to do it that way?" but decided to humor them. Took a couple days, as I use a prepaid credit card, but I got the 10 or so bucks to pay for live. I'm ready to get my stuff.

I call them, give them the card info, and they tell me something that I am still angry about. "Well, sir, it appears you still owe us roughly $76 in live expenses." WHAT!? Where in the WORLD did that come from? I try explaining that that must not be right, but they will NOT have it.

Apparently, I was charged for the months of live I haven't wanted to or been able to use, and they won't explain why. Plus, that STILL doesn't add up, so they must of charged me for more.


I just wanted to get that off of my spirit so I could stop fuming.

[Maskim]

Unless you officially cancel it, and jump through all the hoops to do so, they will continue to charge, whether you use the account or not. If the charge doesn't go through you get late fees, NSF fees, and collection fees tacked on as well. That's probably where the large sum is coming from.

When I was without a 360 for a while (my kids broke it), to finally cancel my LIVE, I had to have my bank's branch manager contact them (via fax) with notice that the customer (myself) had gone through proper measures to cancel the subscription, and that the bank would no longer recognize attempts from xbox LIVE to collect monies, until such a time as I okayed it.

[McLaughlin]

You cancelled a Gamertag over your K/D ratio...?

Also, are you under the impression that you can "move" your PSU sub to another Gamertag? I believe the same applies to the expansion, but I could be wrong.

Either way, if you keep arguing with them, you might be able to get out of paying.

[KodiaX987]

You cancelled a Gamertag over your K/D ratio...?

You underestimate the life-ruining potential of siblings. ;)

[Dizqard]

Is it actually possible to transfer characters between gamertags?

[Maskim]

Is it actually possible to transfer characters between gamertags?

No, it's not.

[Ethateral]

It's kinda like how Microsoft is SUDDENLY making charges to my old bank account when is was just paid off from the negative I had from them BEFORE. The account had JUST closed and the amount in charges just appeared out of nowhere. I was like, wtf? Now I gotta handle this with my bank. Microsoft claims they need my card number to see charges that are otherwise not "theirs". Sorry to say, you don't need it to see activity that THEY'RE doing. That card was cut up and disposed of so...

I switch all my LIVE and PSU license to my new account back in January, when I first made my new account. I hate Microsoft... >_>;

[Brainwrecked]

ITT: I didn't call Microsoft to officially close my XBox live account, I'm being charged, and it's Microsoft's fault! I closed my bank account, my bank allowed someone to charge the closed account, and it's Microsoft's fault!

I know this is rants...but can we at least put the blame where it belongs?


Microsoft claims they need my card number to see charges that are otherwise not "theirs". Sorry to say, you don't need it to see activity that THEY'RE doing.

It's a counter to social hacking. Prevents someone posing as you or phishing information about you from Microsoft telephone support employees. The system may very well be set up not to display the information you want them to see unless you provide the information they request from you. Do you really want every telephone support agent to be able to pull up your complete account history with a simple "here's my Gamertag?" You KNOW there's going to be people out there that are just going to start pulling shit up to see what they can see.

[Schubalts]

^^^

Something like that has happened before, if I'm remembering right.

The "Getting your information with just a gamertag/email thing.

[Ethateral]

ITT: I didn't call Microsoft to officially close my XBox live account, I'm being charged, and it's Microsoft's fault! I closed my bank account, my bank allowed someone to charge the closed account, and it's Microsoft's fault!

I know this is rants...but can we at least put the blame where it belongs?



It's a counter to social hacking. Prevents someone posing as you or phishing information about you from Microsoft telephone support employees. The system may very well be set up not to display the information you want them to see unless you provide the information they request from you. Do you really want every telephone support agent to be able to pull up your complete account history with a simple "here's my Gamertag?" You KNOW there's going to be people out there that are just going to start pulling shit up to see what they can see.

Thing is however, I've actually called Microsoft and I've also dealt with my bank on both issues as well. It just seems pretty damn fishy if you ask me, when it clearly says that the old account was closed. The day of closure, charges were made too? EVEN when that account hasn't had any activity on it since January? Hmmm, seems fishy to me.

[Dizqard]

ITT: I didn't call Microsoft to officially close my XBox live account, I'm being charged, and it's Microsoft's fault! I closed my bank account, my bank allowed someone to charge the closed account, and it's Microsoft's fault!

I know this is rants...but can we at least put the blame where it belongs?


I assumed that calling, canceling my PSU subscription, stopping the live payments through my credit card AND through the xbox itself, verifying that it was closed with microsoft, going on that account and seeing that I can't connect to the internet, much less use live, and it's NOT microsoft's fault? Excuse me for assuming that there wasn't a need to have an incredible ritual involving parakeet blood, a beanie, and dance dance revolution just to stop the richest company on this earth from squeezing a few more dollars from me.

[Brainwrecked]

I assumed that calling, canceling my PSU subscription, stopping the live payments through my credit card AND through the xbox itself, verifying that it was closed with microsoft, going on that account and seeing that I can't connect to the internet, much less use live, and it's NOT microsoft's fault?

Stopping payments through the credit card company is not the appropriate action. Also, not possible to cancel subscriptions and payment options through the console, only add. If you did not contact Microsoft first to cancel something, they have every right to tack on fees. Possible scenario: You contact the financial institution to stop payment, Microsoft in retaliation closes your Live account. You call Microsoft, and the rep sees that, yes, your account is closed but doesn't bother to look up why or does not have that information available to him. And sure enough, you cannot use Live. But it's not because of a mutual agreement between Microsoft and yourself. It is because Microsoft deems that you have taken inappropriate action.

If there's ever a doubt, verify verify verify. There's always billing.microsoft.com on the web and Account Management > Subscriptions > [any subscription] > Change Payment Options on the console to verify that Microsoft did as it was told. Assuming you told Microsoft what to do.


Thing is however, I've actually called Microsoft and I've also dealt with my bank on both issues as well. It just seems pretty damn fishy if you ask me, when it clearly says that the old account was closed. The day of closure, charges were made too? EVEN when that account hasn't had any activity on it since January? Hmmm, seems fishy to me.

Still easy to chalk this one up to "I forgot when my Live account renewed itself." Also forgot in my previous post that banks will let non-pin debit card charges and checks go through on a closed account as long as they were dated prior to (and including) the account closing date. The banks will always ask you if you're sure you don't have any pending transaction before you close an account for a reason.

I'm as quick to bash Microsoft as Steve Ballmer is to throw chairs (see?), so I don't doubt Microsoft takes every opportunity to squeal out of canceling a subscription much like AOL did back in the day. But so far, I have seen ranting that dumps all responsibility on Microsoft while leaving holes in the explanations that indicates otherwise.

PS: I just got done calling Microsoft to change the credit card number they use to bill me. Same bank, two accounts, both active now, but one will be closed in the near future. Of import was this quote from the rep:


It may take up to one month for these changes to take effect.

I was at billing.microsoft.com while I was on hold, and watched as the account I wished to stop using go from Active to Removed. A little tip to double-check to see if the rep you're talking to knows what they are doing. Also, the Removed payment option no longer appears on my console.

I also noted that after the hold period, I was handed off to a second rep. This goes against my first theory in that the "first line of defense" has any access to change your account whatsoever. New theory is that the front line is there only to weed out phishers and the confused. There is a "second line" that starts dealing with real issues.

[Ethateral]

Well, I've called Microsoft first about all this when I first started seeing this happening. (Which was right when the first charge started coming in.) I've been battling them for months now. I've also been calling my bank and today went in and filed Affidavits. It ends up that someone is using that old card that I no longer use. How? I have no idea.

They wouldn't tell me either who the GT is that's using the old account. So now, I have to have my bank go in and actually FORCE Microsoft to tell them who's using my old account and have that person PAY the money back to the bank. They get to pay back $137. Hopefully this resolves the issue, once and for all.

Did I mention after I filed checkcard disputes to Microsoft, they start declining my LIVE and PSU charges to my new account after about 2 months after they were filed? They caused my boyfriend's account to get suspended since it declined HIS payments too. Gotta call Microsoft tomorrow about that. They're manually declining them, when those disputes were for set dates. Not ever time.

[Brainwrecked]

It ends up that someone is using that old card that I no longer use. How? I have no idea.

Hopefully this is an isolated case of random credit card information theft. I've only been the victim of this once, and luckily the result was a $10 charge for some cellular air time minutes. (A charge like this is usually used as a test, to see if the account works and if the real owner is paying attention.) Easily reversed and didn't effect me in any other way. Obviously, there are more destructive results that can be achieved.

But seeing as how you need to enter in your billing information, I sense something more sinister. I would think that Microsoft would decline credit cards that don't belong to you. Maybe a friend stole your information? Maybe someone stole billing information from some place you did business with that card? Maybe someone phished your information from the Microsoft support reps?

Let us know if the fraudulent billing information doesn't match yours. This would expose a serious weakness in Microsoft's billing system in that Microsoft is allowing credit cards to be used with two different billing addresses without red-flagging anything.


They wouldn't tell me either who the GT is that's using the old account.

Understandable, as there are legitimate reasons why one credit card number might be used for more than one XBox Live account. And if the reason involves two different people, Microsoft wants no part of the nasty shit that people might pull on each other if (usually a matter of when) a fallout occurs.


So now, I have to have my bank go in and actually FORCE Microsoft to tell them who's using my old account and have that person PAY the money back to the bank. They get to pay back $137. Hopefully this resolves the issue, once and for all.

This isn't fair, and I feel for you on this one. It's one of the major reasons why straight-up credit cards are preferred for these transactions -- the credit card companies would have told Microsoft to stick it and given your money back. Why debit MC/Visa customers don't get the same treatment I don't know.


Did I mention after I filed checkcard disputes to Microsoft, they start declining my LIVE and PSU charges to my new account after about 2 months after they were filed? They caused my boyfriend's account to get suspended since it declined HIS payments too. Gotta call Microsoft tomorrow about that. They're manually declining them, when those disputes were for set dates. Not ever time.

Filing check card disputes with Microsoft or against Microsoft?

If against, then what you're trying to get at makes sense. Their system might knee-jerk and suspend all billing activity for the Gamertag(s) that the payment option in question was attached to. In this scenario, it's not a manual decline but a wholesale suspension of the Gamertag(s). If a wholesale suspension didn't occur, I'd start worrying about social hacking and the possibility that the fraudster is getting you back for taking away his payment option.

If you filed a check card dispute with Microsoft, I see no reason for the decline of future charges with the new payment option. The old payment option would have been simply removed and life would have moved on.

If I missed anything, please excuse me. It's after 6am and I must stop posting. :D