Draeken's very cool easily implemented idea for PSO2.

[Elrathan]

I will quote some of Draken's post, BTW, I have edited some out, not because his other ideas aren't cool, just this one deserves some added pimpage.

Draken said:
"Some of the things I would like to see on PSO2:

...

...

-An "Arena Room". Two players enter, they are teleported to a battle zone, and they fight for Meseta or items. Each player bids what items to put up for losing the fight, and after both players consent they are teleported to fight. The loser may lose his/her/its current weapon, but only if they bid it before the fight."

Sonic Team, did you hear this? This is a very cool, very fun idea. PK (only if you want to)with a player defined gamble involved. Characters could also have a, 'Number of Duels Won', stat that could be visible on some form of Hunter Ranking System. This could add some serious longevity to the game. So many new gameplay elements could be created by this one addition. One example: Special Quests for dueling masters. Also player created Role Playing elements, like Guilds that accept membership only to Hunters that have won x amount of duels. Or have vanquished, 'so and so' in combat. People can choose to lose items or just their pride.

So what does everyone else think about this idea. Like it? hate it? Indifferent? Wanna flame me? Post on...

[psoshadow]

that ideaa is very cool but your telling the wrong people send sega and email people email neversoft about idea about tony hawk2 and they put it in the game so email sega i am also email them this idea wich would rule mini games like in shenumu mostly old arcade game that are only online so when you have to much meseta or just waiting for your friend waste some time playing golden axe

[Drake]

I love it! I hope that someone from Sega is reading this...

(His other two ideas rock, too... so if you haven't seen his original post... what are you waiting for? Go look! :P)

[ninvampire]

Mind you, I am compiling a list of ideas that the fans of the Phantasy Star (Online) series would like to see implimented in the sequel.

This list will be submitted to the proper people at Sega of Japan/America and Sonic Team (JP/USA) along with a huge petition letting Sega know just how much the fans of the series want these ideas to be implimented.

You can find the list at:
http://www.nevikdreams.com/PSO2

Also look for the thread(s) that I post announcing a tri-weekly update. (Named 'PSO2 Ideas v##.##.##')

This list is getting close to covering a lot of bases, and now I'm looking to get more elaboration on the ideas already present. This way our ideas are well thought-out and will be easier to understand what we want.

[Beserker-X]

GREAT IDEA! But 1 problem... There is a group of people called cheaters http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_razz.gif

[Draekkan]

Thanks for the compliments on my idea http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif

Elrathan: I didn't think of a "Duels Won" stat, and now that it's come up I think that is very cool. All your points make incredible sense, and I especially like the fact that it could lead to a well organized guild system.

Beserker-X: Yes, there are tons of cheaters in the online PSO world, but in my idea of the arena room, both players must consent to the fight. If one is a known cheater, the other player would obviously try to keep clear. A way to screen for good duelling partners is to go questing before the duel. Usually after a quest you can tell the semi-honest folk from the cheaters. This however, wouldn't be a limitation: if you wish, you could duel anyone, anytime.


<CENTER>-=Draekkan=-

Humar (lvl 73)

<FONT color=00FF00>
GREENNILL</FONT>

Expert Hunter/Ranger for hire.

I don't mind going nowhere as long as it's an interesting path.

</CENTER>

<font size=1>[ This message was edited by: Draekkan on 2001-03-01 17:05 ]</font>

[Zephyr]

Actually, having limited PK like this serves one very valuable purpose. It forces the developers to balance all the classes against one another... something PSO1 could have used ;o.

[ZiGDoG]

someone should make a long list of great Idea's for PSO2 (hint hint: More Faces, hairstyles, clothes, and basically options for create a character) and get everyone on this board (and other boards) to sign it. Then we should send it to Sega, they'll see how many people signed this thing and who knows maybe they'll add it in.

Create a character really need a LOT more improvement. I've seen about 200 ppl that look exactly like me, it's pretty annoying.

[Glider]

An arena mode would be ok, but it would be very one sided. Forces would always heal, your only chance againest them is if they ran out of TP and fluids. Androids would not be able to heal as much because they would quickly run out. Rangers would be able to just run around and shoot from afar. I say, leave PK out and focus on more varied gameplay for the co-op.

[Chaos]

I also dont like the pk mode. I mean, some people may like to bash their fellow players, but i would rather go kill a bunch of screwed up hildebears.

[Jaiden]

Think about it. I have 689TP, and 756HP, and 10 Trifluids and 10 Trimates. Player VS Player fights would take forever.

There are far more problems that must be solved, and obviously you haven't even considered them.

How do you balance the classes so the ranger and his long-distance VARISTA doesn't win every time? Force spells of mass destructions are meant for groups of enemies, and wouldn't be very effective against a single target who can do much more damage at the same range, AND has many more hit points.

If you restricted the battle rules so that only players of the same class can duel, then it just boils to who has the best stats. The most hitpoints, the most damage, the most defence, etc...

The battle system is optimized for fighting heards of slow monsters.

Player vs. Player would not work. It would be the most boring aspect of the game.

[ninvampire]

Zigdog - I don't know if you read my reply, but I am already putting together a list of ideas for PSO2 *AND* putting together a petition so that Sega understands how much we want these things implimented.

In regards to PvP and balance issues, look at Diablo 2. After 1.04, Bowazons became some of the most common classes for PvP. The PvP balance in Diablo 2 is non-existant, yet people still love to play it. Why? Because it is fun to fight another human rather than dumb computer AI opponents that aren't really a challenge.

If most of the balance ideas in the list I'm compiling are indeed implimented, PvP would be fairly well balanced. There are still a few things that keep it unbalanced, but my ideas as well as other's will help to try to balance this out.

And Glider/Jaiden, rangers would have an advantage with having a long range attack, but that doesn't mean they'll always rule the day. A character's defense is a lot different than the current batch of slow mobs in PSO.

EDIT: There is one other aspect of PvP that you two are dismissing ... there are players out there that duel with a code of honor. This includes not using items to keep them in the battle longer. Many duels in the D2 PvP scene obide by this code of honor. Of course there will be the lowly dueler that will use items to win a battle, but what satisfaction do they get out of that?

And to everyone else having doubts, try not to think that the limits in PSO would inhibit any desire we want. So use your imagination, (yet try to keep it realistic =)

<font size=1>[ This message was edited by: ninvampire on 2001-03-01 22:05 ]</font>

[Jaiden]

I'm still think its a bad idea. Not that I'm saying it couldn't be done, but the battle system would either have to be different for PvP, or the classes themselves would have to be largely rebalanced, effecting the design of the entire game.

Back in the day, I was re-coding a text-based MUD for a BBS (before the Interent, a dial-up service was called a BBS).

One of the features I added was player vs. player. You could do a 1v1 or free for all, and it worked very, very poorly.

In 1v1, it was all stat based. Warriors always ruled the day, because they had more hitpoints and could dish more damage than the rest. Even high level spell casters got owned by the lowly warriors. The spell casters relied on spells to trick monsters into fighting each other, putting them to sleep and sneaking by, or just plain womping on them by casting multi-hit spells. The magic users were not effective against a single large enemy, and thats why you had warriors. The game required teamwork.

In the free for all system, the guys who did the most fighting died first, and the cheap shits just waited out the entire round, and got the easy pickens. It sucked bad.

If you stop to think about it, PSO is based on teamwork. There are classes that can survive more easily on their own and thus they would have the greatest potential of winning a duel.

Even if people were to adopt this "code of honor" (yea right!) then all you've done is basically narrow it down to the stats. So why not just enforce "no items" by disabling them during the battle?

The PSO battle system is not chess. Fighting each other will have nothing to do with skill, or experience, and will get dull very, very quickly.

I'm glad they removed it from the final game.

[Elrathan]

Hi Jaiden. Let's see here...where to start...

First of all I am glad you are glad there is no PvP in the game. I mean, it is good you are glad, that makes me glad.

Second, PSO is not a text based MUD...

Third, the overwhelming popularity of Diablo's ranking and dueling system leads me to believe you and those who share your sentiment would be outnumbered by those of us who would like a dueling feature. Better still, implemented as per Draekens idea you would never have to participate if you didn't want to. As it stands, right now even with all the imbalance, dueling would still be incredibly fun. You could also allow player defined 'item allowablity'. For example the teleporter will not transport you if you are carrying Scape Dolls, if the 2 duelers have decided these items shouls not be allowed.

How does this work...

A small 'Load Out Screen' with check boxes visible to both players. The challenger sets the rules, and the other player either checks agree or disagree. Then they enter the teleporter, and the code runs a simple check to screen for items. If either player is packing them the teleporter doesn't work and the player carrying the items can run to the bank, because it was obviously just an accident http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif and deposit the item/s. They can then resume their trip to the dueling pit. At any time before entering the teleporter to the dueling area either player can choose to 'wuss out' and not fight.

Heck they could even get fancy and allow a spectator area for the other 2 people in game to watch the duel.

Think of the possibilites...PSO version of Friday Night Fights.

If implemented as Draeken suggested this would be entirely voluntary and would not alter the experience for those who would not like to participate.

BTW, I am not altogeth convinced Ranger would wup on HUmars hands down or vice-versa. Once a hunter with a nice saber got close to the Ranger he/she could deal out some serious damage. Getting close may be another story but that is where tactics would come into play.

[ninvampire]

I completely agree with Elrathan here. Although I think it might be easier to just disable all items while in a dueling arena.

Jaiden, you'd be surprised by just how large the PvP crowd has grown. And just because PvP didn't work way back in the BBS days (I used to BBS as well) doesn't mean that it can't work now. Diablo 2 is a good example of how popular PvP is even given how unbalanced the classes are in D2. Not to mention all of the sub-class PvP types that exist: All dex bowazon, S/S Barb, Lance barb, StaticOrber Sorc, Chargadins, and even FoHadins.

The way most duelers would like to see PvP implimented is mostly unobtrusive to those who want to co-op. In the PSO2 idea list, the PvP arena is going to be treated seperately from the actual game. It just gives players with high level characters something else to do than just item-hunting (which gets incredibly boring after you've been doing it for 100+ hours IMO)

I would also love to see a hardcore mode in PSO2 (death = death, ie. 'no coming back' for all you non-Diablo2 people). Yet another way of playing (and its much more satisfying IMO)

PSO is just too limited on playing options. It doesn't really take too much time to get up to lvl 100 once you know what you're doing and can party with higher leveled people (and hand-me-downs) And once you've played a couple of characters through to lvl 100, there's not much else to do.

You can argue that it's all about online interactions, but eventually that'll start to wear thin as you're doing the same thing over and over and over and over. PvP is a very simple solution that can keep the game fresh and always promises to be challenging.

Contrary to your belief Jaiden, PvP takes an incredible amount of skill (sometimes more than others) since you're playing against a dynamic human AI =) Eventually in PvM you'll learn the AI routines and know the best way to attack, but in PvP, strategies can change in a split second.

So Jaiden, before you write off a PvP mode in PSO2, take a look at the PSO2 idea list and begin to realize that it is quite possible to have a rewarding PvP mode if everything is implimented correctly.