Power Difference between A-rank, and S-Rank?

[MrMadison]

How drastic is the power jump from an A-Rank to an S-Rank weapon?

is it really a "determines which class you play" difference, if both classes have the same weapon you want, but one has access to S-rank and the other has only A-rank?

[xRedd206x]

I say pretty big, but it depends on the company

[Kizeragi]

It's not that big. I find high % A ranks better than most S ranks anyway.

[AerisZeal]

There's barely any difference at all unless they're ground. As a matter of fact most A-rank weapons outclass unground S-rank ones if ground properly. The entire point of S-ranks is to be pretty. :wacko:

Besides that, I find myself having little concern for stats even when they're blatantly apparent because things just die so quickly. Like Kazarod vs Kazarodoc. The former is harder to get but I like the latter because it doesn't have a stinky aura when you swing it, even though just a Howrod would be better than it. ^^;

[Fure_Rakune]

Sometimes it more or less a jump of ACC not ATP that makes a crucial difference between A and S rank.

[Dhylec]

Use this tool to compare the stat differences.
http://www.pso-world.com/items-psu-compare.php

[mvffin]

There are some 9* that can be more powerful than 11*. That totally makes sense.

[chaostroop3]

some 9* are better than 11* and 12*, my geuss is master classes

[bLOODSAW]

It's not that big. I find high % A ranks better than most S ranks anyway.

This.

[darkante]

It´s not big difference. All about looks mostly hehe.

[GlowSticks]

Sometimes it more or less a jump of ACC not ATP that makes a crucial difference between A and S rank.

Yahrlly.

Accuracy is key to a certain degree where it can make ATP not as matter full as ATP.

PP/ATA = KEY in a master class I believe.

[Seority]

Within an attack difference of 50, a 40% A weapon does the same as a 30% S weapon. That's about it.
S ranks are shiner though. :)

[Alastor_Haven]

Not much

As everyone stated

The S rank's are just shiny and pretty

[Hiero_Glyph]

Within an attack difference of 50, a 40% A weapon does the same as a 30% S weapon. That's about it.
S ranks are shiner though. :)

A 50 attack difference seems a bit small for a 10% element increase. Which weapons did you use for yout tests?

If it was only 50 attack per 10%, a 50% weapon would only equate to 250 attack and we both know they do a heck of a lot more damage than that.

[landman]

At the moment S ranks should not determine your preferred class, but when we have lots of 12* and above there will be a difference

[Para]

11* you will start to see a slight difference and at 12* a larger difference and so forth, but you knew that right?

[Hiero_Glyph]

11* you will start to see a slight difference and at 12* a larger difference and so forth, but you knew that right?

Could you be any more vague?

[Pillan]

With the way multipliers work, a higher element item will always overpower a lower element one in the long run just because the primary driving factor eventually becomes [element]*[base ATP] and the tiny amount of damage the weapon adds becomes negligible. You can basically ignore the difference between 9 and 15 star weapons in most cases because the ATP difference only adds up to a few hundred points, which is much smaller than the 3000-5000 base ATP you’ll have by the time you get a 15 star weapon (assuming the rank pattern doesn’t change and ignoring special cases like Psychowand and Agito Replica).

So, if you’re a hunter and you want to maximize your damage, your primary deciding factor should be element. This is also true for armor. If you’re a ranger or force, just go for the weapon with the highest ATP, but the ATP and ATA differences between gun ranks are next to nothing and the TP difference is only big in rods. As mentioned, there are 9 stars which outclass 11 stars ungrinded and outclass most S ranks when you consider that you can acquire the 9 star easily and get it to 10 while your few 12+ stars will end up looking like 5/5.

Of course, there are the other mentioned reasons: additional ATA, additional PP, the “shiny new toy” factor. But I wouldn’t recommend going S rank hunting for additional damage.

[dc534]

Twin ruby bullets are probably the best example, 10-10 ruby outclasses 10-10 tornado's, however master classes can only use s-rank so you really are buying for what you will want to use later.

[panzer_unit]

It depends. What kind of A-rank is it?

shop 9* boards are the same brand as S-ranks... given a lot of money you can mass-synth boards and grind the 42%+ ones to 8 or better. Then you've got a weapon those S-ranks won't easily match, most of the time, until 12*'s come out at least.

drop 9* boards (soda riban, arza gabot, etc) are as powerful as 10* weapons are to start, and grinding will bring them equal to 11* weapons at +10. On the other hand you need a LOT of those boards to produce enough weapons to get an element advantage and grind it high enough to say you've got something good ... you don't need high grinds for ATP as much as you do for PP, to keep those Tenoras from going all Pac Man on your photon charge stack. For comparison's sake the Soda Riban sword has as much PP at +10 as Gigush+10 (2* GRM) and Hanzo+0 (7* GRM)

dropped 9* weapons (PSO replicas like Twin Ruby, Twin DB... Ank Bico, Snowy Claws, etc) are the most powerful overall but they're as rare as actual S-ranks if not worse. In the case of melee weapons you have to get really lucky with element %'s as well.

Personally I won't go out of my way to make a ton of 9*'s for the purpose of "beating" average S-rank weapons by brute force. I'd rather focus on getting S-rank weapon boards and making those, because a good result for melee beats any A-rank hands down (points to 50% light Ank Zagza)

[Inazuma]

the master types cant even equip A ranks. all the time and money you spend putting in A ranks will be worthless soon. once players realize that the masters are leaps and bounds better than the hybrids (fortes are hybrids), A rank items will lose value fast.

in a good players eyes, A rank items are completely worthless b/c you cant even use em. the only players who will still use A ranks are the ones who prefer playing a weak char, or they cant afford to switch to master types yet. in either case, its likely these players dont have much meseta to spend on A rank equipment.

- S ranks are generally stronger than A ranks
- master types make A ranks 100% useless after you level your req types to 10
- players wont want to bother spending a lot of money on temporary equip
- most or all of the current A rank equip will be sold, flooding the market w/ worthless shit no one can use
- and the only players who will seriously use A ranks, purposely picked a weak type to play, so generally speaking they wont have much meseta to spend.

[Slace2k3]

the master types cant even equip A ranks. all the time and money you spend putting in A ranks will be worthless soon. once players realize that the masters are leaps and bounds better than the hybrids (fortes are hybrids), A rank items will lose value fast.

in a good players eyes, A rank items are completely worthless b/c you cant even use em. the only players who will still use A ranks are the ones who prefer playing a weak char, or they cant afford to switch to master types yet. in either case, its likely these players dont have much meseta to spend on A rank equipment.

- S ranks are generally stronger than A ranks
- master types make A ranks 100% useless after you level your req types to 10
- players wont want to bother spending a lot of money on temporary equip
- most or all of the current A rank equip will be sold, flooding the market w/ worthless shit no one can use
- and the only players who will seriously use A ranks, purposely picked a weak type to play, so generally speaking they wont have much meseta to spend.




???????

[shadedragon94]

Take the chainsawd for example that is an awsome A-rank weapon.

[panzer_unit]

- and the only players who will seriously use A ranks, purposely picked a weak type to play, so generally speaking they wont have much meseta to spend.

... wait how does this make sense at all?

[Pillan]

So you’re saying the super-specialized types that can only equip half of the games weapons between the three will make A ranks completely useless?

Well, if that’s the case, I suppose the argument for A ranks can only be extended to everyone who likes not being limited to a single aspect of gameplay or an aspect excluded from those classes. Anyone who likes twin sabers, twin daggers, twin claws, knuckles, slicers, sabers, daggers, and claws… Anyone who likes bows, grenades, crossbows, machineguns, cards, and handguns… Anyone who likes a support tech cap above 10… Anyone who wants to use Boma Duranga on a boss… Anyone who wants to melee and not spend an hour fighting Falz or De Rol Le… Anyone who likes EX traps…

Man. I must say that definitely screws over all the current classes since I don’t know anyone fits in any of those categories. I guess A ranks really are screwed…

But, more seriously, I don’t know how much of a speed advantage Fighmaster has. Depending on that, you would need more or less of an S rank elemental advantage over your 40+% A ranks for them to actually keep up. If I were to guess at the moment, I’d say a 30% elemental S rank should be about equal to a Fortefighter’s 50% A rank, assuming the speed bonus is around 10% and that all your skills are at 50. With Gunmaster, the lack of versatility seems like a pretty obvious turn off to me (as a Fortegunner has the advantages of Boma Duranga and spears). I won’t even comment on Masterforce.

So could you please further enlighten me on how classes with zero versatility, weaker stats, and limited weapon options in trade for unmatched damage with their (few) options they have can kill off the use of the other classes? I seem to be missing something here.

Thanks in advance.

[dc534]

Actually I am pretty sure in japan at least the only real popular master class is gun master, that is because the other two suck, we just don realize this yet. Fighmaster will suck for the simple fact that there are bosses that fly, take of the ground or otherwise you need a gun to take them out. Masterforce would not be bad except they are more of nukers more than they are their for being any help to a goup, so for that reason I can see them being pretty popular as well. Fighmaster is the only class I see not everyone flocking towards, lets see very limited weapon selection and even more limited armor selections. People like using other weapons other than the 5 weapons they get anyway, I love daggers and knuckles that is why I probably will not go fighmaster.

[Alastor_Haven]

When bosses fly...??.

A Fighmaster can destroy a boss in seconds before they even get a chance to fly, AKA
Jabroga or even other PA'S with other weapon selections

So Mf's Nuking the shit out of the mobs are useless?

[ashley50]

Actually I am pretty sure in japan at least the only real popular master class is gun master, that is because the other two suck, we just don realize this yet
How can you say that? You don't even play on the JP servers!



Masterforce would not be bad except they are more of nukers more than they are their for being any help to a goup, so for that reason I can see them being pretty popular as well
they're techers...what do you expect? Melee enemies with their wands/rods?


Fighmaster is the only class I see not everyone flocking towards, lets see very limited weapon selection and even more limited armor selections
Speed...from what I've seen, Fighmaster's limited weaponry is enough for almost any mob.


I love daggers and knuckles that is why I probably will not go fighmaster
a few weeks later after master classes were released on US servers...

HAY GAIS!!! FIGHMASTER PWNZZZZ!!!

[Dragwind]

Stay on topic. This is not a discussion purely on Master Classes.

[Inazuma]

So you’re saying the super-specialized types that can only equip half of the games weapons between the three will make A ranks completely useless?

Well, if that’s the case, I suppose the argument for A ranks can only be extended to everyone who likes not being limited to a single aspect of gameplay or an aspect excluded from those classes. Anyone who likes twin sabers, twin daggers, twin claws, knuckles, slicers, sabers, daggers, and claws… Anyone who likes bows, grenades, crossbows, machineguns, cards, and handguns… Anyone who likes a support tech cap above 10… Anyone who wants to use Boma Duranga on a boss… Anyone who wants to melee and not spend an hour fighting Falz or De Rol Le… Anyone who likes EX traps…

Man. I must say that definitely screws over all the current classes since I don’t know anyone fits in any of those categories. I guess A ranks really are screwed…

But, more seriously, I don’t know how much of a speed advantage Fighmaster has. Depending on that, you would need more or less of an S rank elemental advantage over your 40+% A ranks for them to actually keep up. If I were to guess at the moment, I’d say a 30% elemental S rank should be about equal to a Fortefighter’s 50% A rank, assuming the speed bonus is around 10% and that all your skills are at 50. With Gunmaster, the lack of versatility seems like a pretty obvious turn off to me (as a Fortegunner has the advantages of Boma Duranga and spears). I won’t even comment on Masterforce.

So could you please further enlighten me on how classes with zero versatility, weaker stats, and limited weapon options in trade for unmatched damage with their (few) options they have can kill off the use of the other classes? I seem to be missing something here.

Thanks in advance.

what i was trying to say was it doesnt matter what the difference is between A rank and S rank weps. you wont even be able to use A ranks soon so it just doesnt matter. if power matters that much to you, you will play as a master type obviously.

master types dont have versatility, sure. all they can do is kill monsters REALLY fast. thats it. they completely slaughter monsters extremely fast. much faster than the hybrids. i dont know where ppl get the idea the master types are helpless in so many ways due to not having enough weapons to use. all master types can kill all monsters fast as hell. the ONLY time your wonderful "variety" matters is if you need a gun to shoot some switch far away.

"i dont think its worth killing monsters way faster if it means being unable to shoot a switch 0.00001% of the time. in some mission thats not worth doing anyway. master types are terrible and helpless"

i dont think AT and PT are completely useless however, due to lv 50 buffs and ex traps. at least there is something that they do the best thats unique and could help the party. but most of the time you would still be better off as a master type. its fine if someone wants to play as AT or PT or GT for that matter. but im just saying they didnt make that choice for power reasons. if you look at a random master type player's equip on jp ver, its generally much better than the equip of the average hybrid player.

and dont get mad at me like i was the one who designed psu. sonic team made the master types a hell of a lot better than the hybrids on purpose. im just informing you on what you can look forward to in the near future :P

[Pillan]

Don’t worry about me. I know exactly what to expect of the Master classes. I mean, I was the only person who realized that Acrotecher did a lot of melee damage back when they were beta testing AoI (and I never played said beta). It’s really easy to figure out when you have a good idea of how the math works. My argument earlier was more along the lines of “A ranks are still and will always be useful because people have more interests than the master classes offer.”

Of course, if a master class fulfills all your interests, then obviously A ranks are completely useless to you. Otherwise, if you’re someone who won’t play a class that doesn’t have your favorite weapon (let’s say whips just for argument’s sake) or your favorite combination (let’s say double sabers and twin handguns), then obviously you’ll be playing one of the many classes that can still use A ranks.

There’s no doubt in my mind that Fighmaster can eventually out damage Fortefighter. And how long “eventually” takes depends on your weapon stock. As I said earlier, when you have a 30+% rainbow between swords, spears, axes, and double sabers (which really isn’t all that difficult to acquire), you’ll be doing around the same damage/time and you’ll be better off as Fighmaster after that. But, until then, you’re probably better off as a Fortefighter with a 50% 9 star, as mentioned above.

On the other hand, I agree entirely with you that Fighmaster has enough variety to cover every melee situation. I just disagree that people will give up their favorite weapon just because it’s not one of the four.

On guns and techs, obviously there’s no reason not to go to the highest rank or the most ATP you can acquire there, regardless of the class you choose. I’d guess Gunmaster is better off the moment the bullets hit 41 and Masterforce is better off around 45-ish. This does not take into consideration the disadvantages of not being able to melee. I don’t know about you, but I like having an A rank saber or dagger or spear when the squads of range resistant large mobs or shield-only medium mobs appear since they’re very common.

I’ll reiterate that, for obvious reasons, I agree that if you wish to remain as a Master class A ranks are entirely useless. I’ll also reiterate that, for what I feel should be equally obvious reasons, not many people will want to remain as a Master class for every situation.

And I apologize if this seems to have gotten off topic. I really meant more to discuss the addition of said-classes and how it effects the use of A ranks, which should be a legitimate consideration if you’re going for power.