Requesting Acrotecher vs Masterforce vs Fortetecher comparison vids

[JC10001]

Anybody want to help me out? I'm working on my techer character. Right now she is level 56 or something like that. I'm not even trying to level her really....just get all of my technics to 31+ (almost there). I need to decide what to do with her soon though as it will make a difference on what kinds of tech mags I buy (A rank or S rank).

I'm either going to go Fortetecher or Masterforce becuase I want to be able to solo missions and damage is my #1 priority. It's not that I am opposed to providing support (my support spells are all leveled and I do use them) but for me being able to kill things quickly is more important.

I know about this video, which compares Fortetecher with Masterforce using Rods:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0fUkLYc1vr8

The problem with that video is that I never plan on using rods for spells like foie, rafoie, gifoie, etc. I mainly plan on using them for Damfoie, Dambarta, Damdiga, Dammegid, and Nosdiga.

I'd like to see a comparison of Fortetecher with Masterforce using Tech Mags and Wands, as those will be my primary weapons. If you can throw Acrotecher in there too that'd be a nice bonus (I'm curious of Masterforce is faster than them as well and if so, by how much).

[relentless]

I can't really help you with the comparisons etc. but in terms of damage, if played correctly, MF will do more damage than fT.

Inb4moved

[Umberger]

I'd like to see a comparison of Fortetecher with Masterforce using Tech Mags and Wands, as those will be my primary weapons. If you can throw Acrotecher in there too that'd be a nice bonus (I'm curious of Masterforce is faster than them as well and if so, by how much).

Acrotecher casts the same speed as Masterforce with wands and madoogs. If all you care about is damage, play Masterforce.

[JC10001]

I can't really help you with the comparisons etc. but in terms of damage, if played correctly, MF will do more damage than fT.

Inb4moved

Can you quantify this some how? Is it a little more or a lot more?

Trying to figure out if its worth giving up the HP, support spells, etc.

[Umberger]

Can you quantify this some how? Is it a little more or a lot more?

Trying to figure out if its worth giving up the HP, support spells, etc.

Master- types are meant for endgame players. If you play Masterforce but you're just using Halarods and level 31 TECHNICs, it's not going to be a huge difference, you may even be doing less. However, if you have all level 41+ TECHNICs, Psycho Wands, Pushans and Tesbras, there's no contest...Masterforce is better.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Masterforce has much much much higher potential...it's better than any other offensive -techer, but not without a lot of hard work.

[relentless]

Can you quantify this some how? Is it a little more or a lot more?

Trying to figure out if its worth giving up the HP, support spells, etc.

If it's about the damage alone... then:

Advantage of an MF's damage:
- faster casting speed (like Umberger said as an AT does)
[spoiler-box] 3 Digas on one screen. :wacko: Or so beatrixkiddo proved to us at least.[/spoiler-box]
- lv 41+ TECHs (+1% TP mod. per level or whatever you call it and adds to the elemental percantage)
- lv 41 TECHs will have longer and larger range, plus some TECHs like Ra-TECHs will hit 5 targets at 41+
etc.
... *previews post and looks at umbergers post*
Yeah, what he said btw. lol
MF is for dmg only, support is only for yourself, aka Megistaride.


edit:
Since you said you're more looking for solo, then MF is better than fT, yeah.
It's only that fT will have lv 40 support TECHs and MF will be stuck on lv 20 ones with Megistarides, but the important thing is Retier, and in solo you don't need any range... plus this 20 level-difference isn't THAT horrible, it's a minor disadvantage.
Like a lot of people state about giving up ranged abilities, don't worry.. I personally never really used bows or cards to such an extent that I have an important need for them, so you're fine.
And it's not like you can't switch back to fT, nor is it like you have to switch back a lot since there are not a lot of missions where ranged stuff is absolutely needed.

[Ethateral]

It's only that fT will have lv 40 support TECHs and MF will be stuck on lv 20 ones with Megistarides, but the important thing is Retier, and in solo you don't need any range... plus this 20 level-difference isn't THAT horrible, it's a minor disadvantage.

Is it not level 10 support with Megistrides? :P

[Umberger]

Is it not level 10 support with Megistrides? :P

All of the status boost items are SE 2 (what buffs have at 11-20).

[Inazuma]

MF is so much better its not even worth considering the others.

[Kerry157]

Spoilers: Forcemaster wins

[Pillan]

This topic has actually sparked my curiosity, so I think I’ll do a rough estimate on the order of advantage that a Masterforce would have over a Fortetecher in tech damage. So, for the first analysis, let’s consider the maximum advantage of level 50 techs over level 40 techs, excluding element. I’ll consider 3 cases: Regrants (which is the maximum advantage of the hold-techs), Gibarta (which is the maximum advantage of normal techs), and Rabarta (which is the maximum advantage of the Ra-series, which gains an extra hit).

So, Regrants has 1.25x multiplier, Gibarta has a 1.13x multiplier (1.246x after 10% speed bonus), and Rabarta has a 1.32x multiplier (1.456x after 10% speed bonus). These are the advantage of 50 over 40 in raw TP multiplier.

Now, I personally don’t believe that the element grows after 40 and I expect it to cap at 50%. At this point, I am assuming there is no data to support any sort of element growth after 40 nor any to refute it. So, using estimated 30% elemental nerf reduction, I’ll say 60% is really about 40% and 50% is really about 35. I say 40 because it is very likely that the reduction increases at higher element, but I’m not up-to-date on all the elemental calculations, so correct me if I’m wrong.

If the element increases, Masterforce has an additional 1.037 multiplier advantage over Fortetecher.

Now there’s the class multipliers. Here Masterforce has a clear disadvantage. As Newman, you’re looking at an overall 0.868x multiplier disadvantage as Masterforce. As anything else, it’s a .894x disadvantage. This disadvantage can be cut by using stronger equipment, of course. This especially favors Madoogs and Rods (because Rods add so much and Fortetecher has an A rank Madoog cap). At best, we’re looking at Wands cutting the deviation by about 1/3 (if you’re a Cast).

So, from this, I’d say the absolute maximum advantage a Masterforce can have over a Fortetecher is around 35% more damage/time. This is assuming you’re getting 5 targets in each of your Rabartas. A more conservative estimate would say something like an overall 10% output increase (assuming you’re Newman, you’re getting the same number of targets per hit, and there is no element growth after 40). You might be able to get it to more like a 16% increase as a Cast with a 10/10 Psychowand. Note that this does not take buff levels into consideration.

All data on growth rates was taken from the JP Wiki, of course.

[Inazuma]

pretty sure you get more element % for techs lv 41+

[Dragwind]

Perhaps we could try to get a confirmation on element % for 41+ techs? I'd like to know this for sure.

[Pillan]

Sorry to bring back this topic, but after analyzing a Masterforce video that Heiro showed me last night, I noticed that the damage the MF was dealing lined up with my expected value for 72% element after the reduction. This means that the tech had around 60% element and the rod was adding an additional 12%. So I would consider this enough confirmation for me that techniques do continue to gain 1% element after 40, maxing at 60% at level 50.

So, yeah, that means you can assume a Newman MF will have a 14% or so average output advantage over an fT, though this number decreases with stacking (and with their respective buff caps).

[Inazuma]

Sorry to bring back this topic, but after analyzing a Masterforce video that Heiro showed me last night, I noticed that the damage the MF was dealing lined up with my expected value for 72% element after the reduction. This means that the tech had around 60% element and the rod was adding an additional 12%. So I would consider this enough confirmation for me that techniques do continue to gain 1% element after 40, maxing at 60% at level 50.

So, yeah, that means you can assume a Newman MF will have a 14% or so average output advantage over an fT, though this number decreases with stacking (and with their respective buff caps).

hmm, i think 14% sounds too small. are you factoring in the magic power difference between shato+10 (or pwand+10) w/ puushan+10? FT not being able to use the best tech wep in the game is pretty important.

i sold all my useless shato 10s the moment MF came out but i could do a dps comparison between FT w/ pwand10 and MF w/ puushan10. the thing is, MF is better w/o a doubt. if that difference is 80% or 5%, it doesnt matter really.

no promises, but i mite take the time tonite to do some proper comparisons. im interested to find out how much MF beats FT myself (^_^)

*edit* aw shit, servers are down for maintenance rite now. but on the bright side, i found a shato10 that was hiding on a storage char.

[Pillan]

I didn’t bother factoring in weapons in general with that calculation because the overall effect of any weapon is small. When you consider that a weapon like a 10/10 Psychowand only accounts for about 30% a Newman fT’s TP, so the deviation between the two drops from 13% to around 9%. That gives you something on the order of an 18% output increase overall (once again ignoring buffs). And this number can only go down as you increase character (and most likely class) level.

In the case of Madoogs, though, if you do have a 10/10 Pushan compared to a 10/10 Shato, it does decrease the deviation to on the order of 6%, so you could see over a 20% output increase as Masterforce in that case. But, much like the above case, this number can only go down as character level goes up (and base TP becomes more dominant).

Wands will lean toward fT even more than Psychowand just because you can think of them like rods with lower TP (since both classes can equip them at all ranks).

So, we’re looking at the real output deviation averaging somewhere between 13 and 24 percent, decreasing toward 13 as you continue to level up (unless MF’s TP gets closer to fT’s at higher levels). Buffs were still ignored in all calculations.


Unfortunately, I’m not going to go through the difficulty of comparing a fully grinded Pushan to a fully grinded Psychowand just because it varies with the tech. On one hand you have significantly more TP and an extra 20% multiplier while on the other, you have more speed from both the weapon and the class. Obviously faster techs will lean more towards the fT with a Psychowand and vice-versa. But if someone has an idea of the average time difference, we can estimate it.

[Inazuma]

later today, i will compare female newman lv 150/20 MF and FT. i have pwand10, puushan10 and shato10 and all techs maxed. im planning on comparing dps for these 3 techs: megido, ramegido, nosumegido. ill attack the light element gorumoros in rafon relics S2.

MF will be using SE2 buffs and FT will use SE4.

[Inazuma]

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2102243#post2102243
ok i found some time to do all the comparisons. decided to make it a new topic. go check it out and let me know what you think.