har/quick vs har/smart

[fay]

which of these is the better would you recon har quick or har smart

both of them reduce casting time by two thirds. har quick reduces tech by 100 and har smart takes away30% of your spells range.

[darkante]

which of these is the better would you recon har quick or har smart

both of them reduce casting time by two thirds. har quick reduces tech by 100 and har smart takes away30% of your spells range.

I rather take a 100 tech loss, then losing range.
So stick with Har / Quick.

[Arada]

Har / Smart decreases the range of your techs by a significant amount. So significant, Har / Quick remains a better unit.

With Har / Smart, techs will basically have the following range:
If the tech is 31+ -> range decreased to that of the 21+ tech.
If the tech is 21+ -> range is decreased to that of the 11+ tech.
If the tech is 11+ -> range is decreased to that of the 1+ tech.

It's not perfectly accurate but it does give you an idea.

[Cracka_J]

I would recommend trying both units first, before determining which is the "better" unit.

It's basically range loss vs offensive damage loss, something so trivial that it's ok to decide based on which one better fits your playstyle. According to a friend that landed the unit over the weekend, the range difference IS NOT that bad to incorporate into your gameplay. However, personally, I do not want my tech's abilities to be hindered by a unit, so I won't be switching to it.

For MF though...I'll be torn between using that har/quick or acquiring a red / force for maximum output. I think that may be a larger issue for future MF's in the coming months...

[Inazuma]

haru smart is better. if you are in a situation where you need range, switch to lumira/spread.

[CelestialBlade]

Go with Har/Quick, what good is a Ra-tech if you lose a bunch of range?

In a lot of the newer missions with level 160-170 enemies, you really want to keep your distance. And unless you're a hardcore super-paranoid elitist, a high-level fT, AT, or GT is not going to even notice a -100 TP hit. I'll take a *barely* noticeable stat hit over being one-shotted by a buffed level 170 Shinowa Hidoki.

[darkante]

Go with Har/Quick, what good is a Ra-tech if you lose a bunch of range?

In a lot of the newer missions with level 160-170 enemies, you really want to keep your distance. And unless you're a hardcore super-paranoid elitist, a high-level fT, AT, or GT is not going to even notice a -100 TP hit. I'll take a *barely* noticeable stat hit over being one-shotted by a buffed level 170 Shinowa Hidoki.

Agreed

[Ceresa]

Smart for MF, quick for FT until you go MF, doesn't matter for the rest since they have garbage tech damage and much better alternatives.

Range reduction is insignificant on simple unless you snipe from ridiculously far away...

Range reduction on Ra hurts FT because they need to start nuking as far as possible because mobs will eventually reach them. With MF mobs will be permaflinched so whether you start at 100meters or 25meters, the mobs won't get you so who cares. Also only the distance the tech travels forward is reduced, the range of the AE stays the same.

Nos with smart...lol I can hit De Rolei at max distance with nos so whatever.

Rest of techs do not suffer reduced range.

Also red/force sucks on MF, don't even bother.

[Tekershee]

Wait, so Smart affect Noszonde? Cause I thought that had infinite range almost.

Also, it's even possible to permaflinch some enemies even as FT, I assume it's going to be a lot easier on MF!

[relentless]

It doesn't really matter if Nos is affected by it or not.

Also, Har / Smart for MF, Har / Quick for fT.

@Inazuma
I'm curious since it sounds interesting about using Lumira / Spread in certain situations. Mind giving a few examples? ^^

[Xefi]

i'll stick with har/quick; a lost of 100 tp isn't that huge of an amount.
I used Ra- techs a lot and prefered not to lose some range from
those spells.

[Arika]

I want Me/smart more than Har/smart ..:wacko:

@ topic, yes, agree with fT+ quick, MF + smart. they are very match.
add WT and AT for har/smart too, because they don't need range, really. and AOE has no effect on it.


EDIT: do we have all of the giresta members yet?

[CelestialBlade]

i'll stick with har/quick; a lost of 100 tp isn't that huge of an amount.
I used Ra- techs a lot and prefered not to lose some range from
those spells.
Yeah, that's how I figure. And again, -100 TP doesn't mean anything, not even to a MF.

Also GIRESTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Seority]

AT prob needs har / quick for resta/reverser/giresta area healing, and their buffs. Range is important to them too.

[Inazuma]

It doesn't really matter if Nos is affected by it or not.

Also, Har / Smart for MF, Har / Quick for fT.

@Inazuma
I'm curious since it sounds interesting about using Lumira / Spread in certain situations. Mind giving a few examples? ^^


lumira spread really comes in handy sometimes. i can hit the gohmans in white beast w/ ramegido from outside their attack range. in the current event, there are a few rooms filled w/ buffed gohmans. instead of risking death having to make quick dodges, i just spam ramegido from a safe distance.

in seed express, there are 2 ardites that spawn in a room w/ a wall. i can attack em w/ rafoie while they are stuck behind it, works nice. btw, it has to be rafoie b/c the other ra techs dont have enough range.

you know that part in white beast where you go down a staircase and it splits into 2 hallways, the right side has the key. sometimes i will stand at the top of the staircase on the button, so the ice traps dont freeze the others. i can attack most of the monsters at the bottom w/ ramegido.

i almost never see other MFs using lumira spread however. i feel like the only person who uses it regularly.

[dc534]

I dont know guys it seams to me that the Har Smart would be better suited on classes such as GT, I mean they have decent reange on healing as it is and why sacrifice the extra healing power that the extra 100 tech points gives you. I mean it might be best suited for cast GT if anything. Otherwise I think the har quick is best in most situations.

[djmacken]

Har / Quick is a much better unit than Har / Smart. I have tried both and on paper as well as in partice the Har / Quick wins.

Both give a casting speed bonus.

The Har / Quick reduces TP by -100. Which for a level 140 human acrotecher (20) is only 5% of his base TP. They have nearly 2,000 TP at that level.

The Har / Smart reduces your technic range by 30%?!? Trust me it is VERY noticable and almost defeats the purpose of technics. You need to be able to hit them hard and quick and out of their melee range.

I think the question should be Har / Quick or Red / Force. :)

[Hrith]

Har / Smart is better if you do not use simple and Ra technics, since only those are affected by the range cut ;o

My Acrotecher does not have one simple or Ra technic = Har / Smart is 100% better.

[Tetsaru]

I found a Har/Smart last night and compared its range to my Har/Quick...

Personally, I didn't see a significant enough difference, so I'd say Har/Smart is better. I haven't used it in any intense missions yet though, so I may change my mind later, lol...

[Inazuma]

Har / Smart is better if you do not use simple and Ra technics, since only those are affected by the range cut ;o

My Acrotecher does not have one simple or Ra technic = Har / Smart is 100% better.

as FT, maybe. but as AT or MF, you are better off w/ smart.

using simple and ra techs w/ haru smart is one of the fastest ways to kill monsters when you are playing w/ others. having slightly less range just means you have to take a few more steps forward before you can start attacking. but after the monsters are dead, you are closer to the next room than you would be if you were using haru quick.

100 magic power isnt a huge amount but it helps. and id go so far as to say that having less range on ra techs is a GOOD thing. sometimes when you dont aim correctly and the tech shoots past the monsters, it can still hit em thanks to having less range.

dont forget to bring along lumira spread as well b/c there will be the occasional time where you do need extra range on simple or ra techs.

[djmacken]

I just find that odd though that as an Acrotecher you don't use any line (megid?) or RA technics? IMO those (as well as GI) are the bread and butter of an acro that uses attack technics. They benefit greatly from acro's faster casting speed. Really what it comes down to is personal preference.

[Tetsaru]

I just find that odd though that as an Acrotecher you don't use any line (megid?) or RA technics? IMO those (as well as GI) are the bread and butter of an acro that uses attack technics. They benefit greatly from acro's faster casting speed. Really what it comes down to is personal preference.

I agree with this, though my Gi- techs suck, lol... but I won't get into how everyone plays AT differently. >_<

Now, I don't have any screenshots to prove this, but from what I could see, the difference in range for my Megid and Ra- spells was maybe about the length of one normal-sized enemy... like a Koltova or something. Imo, that doesn't constitute a huge loss, rather than Har/Quick weakening the stat that boosts your offensive and healing techs.

And true - if you need range, you could always try to get a Lumira/Spread (I don't have one yet though, so I can't comment on how it performs) and switch out on the fly if you need to. Or you could just use a ranged weapon or Noszonde like we always have, lol...

[RedRaz0r]

Quick > Smart

[MSAksion]

The Har / smart is very well suited for CLOSE RANGE TECHERS - they're called WARTECHERS.

Wartechers are up in the fight anyway. As a WT i use DAM and GI almost exclusively as RA doesn't cut it. Its too long ranged to have effective melee counter attack.

The Har / Smart works for my WT strategy - hit really quickly the entire squad of monsters. Spray some DAM and GI then whip out some Dus Majarra or Tornado break to clean up the remains.

As a WT i rarely use the longer RA or Base Techs as the distance leaves too much room for the monster to recover from the flinch. AND WT has low TP anyway so -100 TP is a pretty significant loss in mid-game

[korn515freak]

its only 100 atk har/ quick takes off

[Kumlekar]

This might be a moot point, but for leveling har/quick is better hands down. As for playing normally, its a bit situational. Har / Quick will probably be better for any area with really high damage areas, or for MF's in general. Har/Smart is probably better for FT's who can take more than half a hit, and don't want to lose the attack power. This is especially true when grinding a lower level mission for items. (keep in mind this is comming from a noob techer)

[Genoa]

If smart really lowers tech range... I'm assuming it decreases range of all techs?
This means... your support techs as well?
I would find it absolutely ridiculous for people to reduce their range in support techs for +100 more TP.
First of all, too many techers ONLY use Giresta for healing. Disadvantages?
1. Range is much smaller than resta
2. Resta's faster >____>
3. Resta heals MORE :O
4. Resta doesn't cost as much PP
5. Every time you recast Giresta, you reset the HP Recovery that people had stored up on top of their max HP... which imo, is the most IMPORTANT part about Giresta. Reviving a character... who even does that? Everyone has scapes. The HP recovery when health is gone? It's okay, but the bread and butter is that it stacks HP on top of your full health! And if you keep recasting it, you start that regain over from scratch! USE RESTA >________>

Anyways...
100 TP is nothing. Most techers are newman anyways, you have about 1500-2000+ TP depending what class techer class you're playing. -100... I doubt you could tell the difference. Lower ranged techs? Yes... that's much more noticeable...

[Astarin]

Smart doesn't decrease area of effect, only range. I believe JP players tested and found it only effects simple and Ra- technics, as well.

For Rafoie, this means that Har / Smart shortens the distance away from you that it explodes, but the size of the explosion is the same. Regular Foie doesn't travel as far. All other technics, including healing technics, are unaffected, since they aren't "thrown". The only other ones I could see possibly being affected are Nos- technics.

Now, I just wish I could get a straight answer on how big a deal this is for Ra- technics. Some people say it's huge, some say it's insignificant. Maybe a screenshot comparison?

[relentless]

First of all, too many techers ONLY use Giresta for healing. Disadvantages?
1. Range is much smaller than resta
2. Resta's faster >____>
3. Resta heals MORE :O
4. Resta doesn't cost as much PP
5. Every time you recast Giresta, you reset the HP Recovery that people had stored up on top of their max HP... which imo, is the most IMPORTANT part about Giresta. Reviving a character... who even does that? Everyone has scapes. The HP recovery when health is gone? It's okay, but the bread and butter is that it stacks HP on top of your full health! And if you keep recasting it, you start that regain over from scratch! USE RESTA >________>


http://www.giresta-madness.com/ (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147240)

So much to that.


edit@Astarin:

Har / Smart (http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9199/psuilluminus20200808252fa6.jpg)

Har / Quick (http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7608/psuilluminus20200808252wo5.jpg) (aka normal range)

Quoting Tekki:

Quite simply, the first shot I managed to hit the first trap, 2nd shot, I hit the 2nd one.

It is noticeable and it does seem a bit too short but it's not too bad.

You can see it stop on simple techs but even then, you're very rarely that far away especially with high level monsters.

The added damage isn't too bad. 50-100 on each hit x number of targets.

edit:
I totally agree to this, and also support Inazuma's post, especially the part about sometimes missing the mobs because of range, so Har / Smart is for smart people. :wacko:

[DeZZ]

Can anyone tell me if har / smart affects support techs range? Buffs etc...

NVM, just read Astarin's post...apparently they aren't affected...but does anyone have any first hand experience with smart unit and support techs to back up this claim?

[Genoa]

Well if AoE isn't effected, only ranged in simple and ra techs. I can see it more of a matter of preference. I would find an adjustment in range still a bit of a challenge (also to get used to).
I would like to see some screenies, or even a video of the difference in range =/
And uh... SekaI, what was the point of showing me that link? Everything I said about Giresta was still completely true >___>

[Inazuma]

Well if AoE isn't effected, only ranged in simple and ra techs. I can see it more of a matter of preference. I would find an adjustment in range still a bit of a challenge (also to get used to).
I would like to see some screenies, or even a video of the difference in range =/
And uh... SekaI, what was the point of showing me that link? Everything I said about Giresta was still completely true >___>

near the start of this video, i use lumira/spread for 2 spawns, otherwise im using haru/smart. notice how i can hit the gohmans w/ ramegido from outside of their attack range. its useful b/c these guys are buffed and can kill me extremely fast if im not careful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1121fkoTNsE

[Kumlekar]

near the start of this video, i use lumira/spread for 2 spawns, otherwise im using haru/smart. notice how i can hit the gohmans w/ ramegido from outside of their attack range. its useful b/c these guys are buffed and can kill me extremely fast if im not careful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1121fkoTNsE

Hm, what mission is that?

[Inazuma]

its the thx festa mission. i dont know what the proper name is.