Kids and their games these days...

[Cracka_J]

To be honest, I feel little to no motivation to play anything new that comes along these days. There has been so much hype around some titles that just fail to live up to any expectation, and I feel like every time I purchase something I had been waiting for, I'm still playing the same old shit with different graphics.

I mean think of some of the best selling titles that are out there these days: GTA, FF, MADDEN, MARIO, GH/RB, HALO, these are all games or series that you have played at one point or another, and aside from some cosmetics and gameplay tweaks, the base gameplay has pretty much stayed the same. I realize I'm talking about series of games with installed fanbases, and they have to keep their fans happy. However, take a step even further back and look at game genres. You have FPS/RPG sitting at the top, then to a lesser extent, scattered platformers, 3rd person action, fighters, music games, etc. Can you honestly say that you've played ANYTHING completely unique in the past 5 years, that didn't borrow from another game? Aside from possibly Katamari Damacy (and even then they managed to choke 4 different versions out of that game) & Shadow of the colossus, I really can't.

My point is, when will people get tired of playing the same fucking game they've been playing for the past 10 years? When will they stop reaching into their pockets to pull out that $60 bucks for a new Madden every year when nothing besides some textures and John Maddens catch phrases change (if that)? Even the promising Wii that brought so many new gameplay options to the table has set itself up for an early funeral. I can't even think of one title for that system in the past 6 months that hasn't basically been a decorated point and click flash game.

I do believe there is a breaking point coming, and it's going to hit the game industry hard. People WILL GET TIRED of playing the same trash. You can only recycle the same used game program/engine so many times before people stop buying into it. Atari learned their lesson hard, but it seems the industry forgot.

I really just want developers/designers to start using their brains again. Not only coming up with new games, but new GAMEPLAY. New genres, new control, etc. In all reality, idc about the graphics. If it's not going to offer me something new and challenging to figure out, graphics aren't going to help it. I remember getting that NES back in 85 for christmas. The gameplay, genres, characters, design, everything was so fresh. It could just be nostalgia, but I don't think it all has to do with that. There was something very special about a lot of those older games - I think it had to do with them all being unique, original ideas.

I just really hope at some point the mainstream garbage will phase out so the industry can actually evolve to the next level. We got systems and computers that can dish out hollywood special effects, and gameplay hasn't evolved since 1995. Pretty freaking awesome.

[Sayara]

you like alot of us have done this for 20 years.

20 years of trying to be original is alot harder than youd think.

[KodiaX987]

A cash cow is a cash cow.

Ask any game dev, and they will sure as hell put up a mediocre product that generates millions in profits than a "good" game that sells just a few hundred thousands. In essence, the gaming market is being given exactly what it wants, which is why everyone and their mother buys it, which is why the market gets even more filled with products like these.

Fortunately, remember the following: "If you find a rule that works and keep applying it over and over, it will eventually cease to work."

[Weeaboolits]

People cry out for originality, only to get upset when a change is made to their favorite series, it's little wonder developers would rather play it safe sometimes.

[stukasa]

I remember reading that development costs for games have gone way, way up in the last few years. Companies can't afford to take many risks when games have movie-sized budgets and huge development staffs. It's the same thing with movies (the big budget ones, anyway). No one's willing to take a chance when so much money is at stake so they play it safe and go with something that they know will sell, even if it's the tenth sequel in a series that's hardly changed.

[Cracka_J]

Fortunately, remember the following: "If you find a rule that works and keep applying it over and over, it will eventually cease to work."

That's pretty much what I'm thinking will happen. Once $$ stops rollin in, they will be forced to innovate.

[Tyreek]

Hmm. Well, how long has it been... 30 years? A lot of concepts have been used, so it's hard to come up with something purely original for the fanbase these days. At time likes these, a new idea, could mean new life for the fanbase, or an epic fail. Change is good some of the time, but I guess the industry needs that security blanket so they don't make a huge mistake.

[Outrider]

Can you honestly say that you've played ANYTHING completely unique in the past 5 years, that didn't borrow from another game? Aside from possibly Katamari Damacy (and even then they managed to choke 4 different versions out of that game) & Shadow of the colossus, I really can't.

Katamari Damacy was not the first game to use a scoring system and Shadow of the Colossus was not the first game to have a horse.

But seriously, this is like complaining that Hollywood keeps making action movies and comedies. The reason a stand-out title is noticed is because it STANDS OUT.

Plus - I mean, have you played Mario Galaxy or Portal or Prince of Persia Sands of Time? Those are three games that have rocked my world in the past two generations. They take a well-known foundation and build upon it. Sometimes it's a little easy to be jaded, but you should be looking for the fresh bits of a game instead of what you consider "overdone."

Or hey, you can only buy the one or two games you come across that you actually find to be earth-shattering. Just don't be heartbroken when reality doesn't match with your desired utopia.

[CelestialBlade]

There's a lot of unique games lately, even recent RPGs usually have some pretty neat twists. It is unfortunate how all the popular games are all the exact same dumb FPS game with different graphics though.

Grew up with Atari and NES and I couldn't be happier :P

[biggabertha]

Shenmue, Rez, P.N. 03, Four Swords, Myst, ICO, PSO and Street Fighter II were all very good first time games. You can see the ideas taken from Shenmue in games such as GTA and you can see how many fighting games base so many ideas on the Street Fighter series.

PSO I think, was the first online action game that introduced leveling principles and Four Swords has not been equalled. I genuinely thought that Four Swords would be a boring game but after playing it with someone else, I can genuinely say that it is certainly one of the first of it's kind.

Sure, games like Sonic 2 on the Mega Drive (Genesis) have had co-op elements or deeper games such as Secret of Mana but none of them are as fun or as rewarding or as innovating as Four Swords. (Great way for Nintendo to make money though but didn't quite apply so well...)

I almost forgot Clockwork Knight and Panzer Dragoon Saga. More amazing games.

Funnily enough, Sega and Nintendo seem to make the best "new" games. It's not because of money though, right? Otherwise Microsoft and Sony would be all over this but because they were small Japanese based companies at the time that are just there to make games to stay afloat. It just so happens that people want pretty graphics now and the sound suffers a little, the controls suffer a lot more then the gameplay hits rock bottom.

Anyone ever read up on how one of the Tom Raiders got completely ruined because part of the team spent days/weeks/months perfecting how beautifully Lara rolls around?

Resources are just being poured into the wrong avenues. The good games are still coming - they're just very far and few between each one now.

[Cracka_J]

Katamari Damacy was not the first game to use a scoring system and Shadow of the Colossus was not the first game to have a horse.

Think you kinda missed the point on that one.

Both games were completely unique in gameplay and brought fresh ideas to the market, even though the visuals weren't top notch. Something developers these days will usually can before it gets off the concept floor.

biggabertha - some really great first time games listed, and I agree a lot of initial ideas come out of those (most are in my collection as well :P). But I think (especially) SEGA and Nintendo have gone the way of the rehash, as the majority of their new titles are just visual updates of old titles. When was the last new character or franchise you saw develop from either company? I really can't remember. Perhaps you need to go back to the DC or even N64 days for that.

It just sucks. I feel like I'm being forced out of gaming because my choices have become madden, halo, or medal of grand theftcraft '08. None of which I have any interest in playing or spending my monies on.

[deso123]

They do what makes money. 1999 to 2001 games proved on their own that games had limitless potential in the advancing 3D realm. Beautiful games were made that are still amazing today offering more than even games made now today do. For example after Tiberian Sun EA announced that they were going back to their roots when creating Tiberium Wars. What did that mean? It means that they found their RTS formula and that Tiberian Sun had surpassed it or done something outside of their formula. You will notice that almost all games play alike from Generals to Red Alert 3. All of the games EA made on the SAGE engine (including Lord Of The Rings Battle For Middle Earth) were simply different flavors of the same gameplay formula. They do this for several reasons. They make a game that is easy to pick up and play as well as easy to develop. They may tweak the way harvesting resources is done or how some units operate but at the core it is the same exact game. But if you ask the question, "where is the innovation?" They will tell you about some sort of novelty they added or dodge it entirely because the previous game was based on a different franchise that they juggle. Make no excuse for this. They know what they are doing and you should be smart enough to realize this. This is much like the Democrats and Republican problem. People don't want to appear to be an outcast and conflict with them when they clearly aren't listening to the people they supposedly represent in their parties. It is a horrific game and you will get burned or blindly enjoy your ignorance. Ignorance is bliss. I had tried to fight this war in the gaming industry and I have failed. I still rant about it every now and then but I realize that most people don't care and neither should you. Seriously, there is no hope. Knowing the secrets will no doubt make you depressed and not enjoy most games but it's that time when you move on if you aren't having fun.

[Alastor_Haven]

I will agree

Shadow of the Colossus was very unique

And an excellent game I must say

[DreXxiN]

If you want a perfect game, play Starcraft.

I dunno what you mean Cracka...What kind of suggestions do you have for fresh content? There's THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of games; just because the mainstream ones are crappy doesn't mean they all are, you just have to explore the underground.

After 30 years, you can't exactly have a WHOLE new thing.

[Powder Keg]

Since gaming has become more mainstream, you see a shitload of low-quality, half-assed games in the market now. There's a lot of good ones out there too, but in order to keep up with all of them you either need a really fat wallet or a gamefly subscription...not to mention a shitload of time.

My gaming was the heaviest in the SNES and PSone era, and I could tell you every small and even unimportant detail about all those games I played, but it's just not the same anymore for me personally.

The same goes for other things too, not just video games. If something catches on and sells, the next wave of things you're going to see will be similar or almost exactly the same.

[ForceOfBrokenGlass]

It just sucks. I feel like I'm being forced out of gaming because my choices have become madden, halo, or medal of grand theftcraft '08. None of which I have any interest in playing or spending my monies on.

Maybe you just need a new hobby? Go try some other stuff.

[CelestialBlade]

My gaming was the heaviest in the SNES and PSone era, and I could tell you every small and even unimportant detail about all those games I played, but it's just not the same anymore for me personally.
That age was without a doubt the golden age of gaming, for me. The SNES RPG library contains some of the best games ever made.

[Outrider]

Think you kinda missed the point on that one.

Both games were completely unique in gameplay and brought fresh ideas to the market, even though the visuals weren't top notch. Something developers these days will usually can before it gets off the concept floor.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/facetious

However, I do think it's funny that Katamari, one of the freshest titles in years, had sequels pumped out on an almost yearly basis for a while there. In addition to that, though I love Shadow of the Colossus, you can't argue it didn't start off with the base of ICO before building up from there. [/devil's advocate]

[Cracka_J]

My gaming was the heaviest in the SNES and PSone era, and I could tell you every small and even unimportant detail about all those games I played, but it's just not the same anymore for me personally.


Pretty much the same for me, although I was a NES whore, and had a library of Saturn titles before I picked up a PS1.

It just seems, now apparently not just to me, that we've already hit all the possible hi points for game design. Are rehashes and graphical updates really all there is left for the future of gaming?

And Outrider, it's a bit hard sometimes to detect humor in text form...the internet is stupid like that. I agree with you about katamari, which was why I put in my original post that they came up with something unique and tried to turn it into a cash cow...something that you can't really do with a niche title. Also, while SotC did basically build off the ICO engine, it had enough unique gameplay mechanics to stand out on its own. It's weird too, I didn't even enjoy ICO to play it more then a couple days, but SotC just immersed me from start to finish. I think the boss fights/searches had quite a bit to do with that, lol.


After 30 years, you can't exactly have a WHOLE new thing.

Actually, that's exactly what I want. I'm pretty damn bored of games after 23 years of playing them, if they aren't willing to bring anything new to the table, there's no motivation for me to play them or spend my money on them. If originality really is too tall of an order for the industry to fill, then whats the point in playing?

[Sord]

Pretty much the same for me, although I was a NES whore, and had a library of Saturn titles before I picked up a PS1.

It just seems, now apparently not just to me, that we've already hit all the possible hi points for game design. Are rehashes and graphical updates really all there is left for the future of gaming?

well there's certainly a chance there is something else out there to be thought up, but so much has been done all ready it's increasingly difficult to come up with "original" content.

[Solstis]

Actually, that's exactly what I want. I'm pretty damn bored of games after 23 years of playing them, if they aren't willing to bring anything new to the table, there's no motivation for me to play them or spend my money on them. If originality really is too tall of an order for the industry to fill, then whats the point in playing?

Then don't play/buy. The last new game I bought was Mass Effect, and I bought it a year after it came out.

I busy myself with Tetris DS, EVE Online, and recently went through a Blizzard spree and played a little Warcraft III, Starcraft and Diablo II. And, yes, Starcraft is probably THE most balanced RTS.

I've also started reading books again. Used books are about $6-$7 after shipping, and I get about as much entertainment (hour-wise).

[Darkly]

i really like that video games now can tell pretty good stories to an impressive level. They may not be on the same level as movies or books, but actively being in a story makes it fun to play through.

Each generation i love seeing that extra detail appearing. There is nothing wrong with liking aesthetics in games.

In a way i see the big games like summer blockbusters, entertaining to play through once or so but not much depth. I enjoy seeing how imaginitive the set pieces that developers create etc. At least the stories are new in each game.

The main reason i play games more than watching the tv is because its a lot more interesting/entertaining. Nobodies forcing you to play the new madden every year, which i agree i hate too - just seek out those unique games you owe to yourself to play.

I love those kind of games, like killer 7 etc. you play a game like that for its experience, not really its gameplay because when its put all together it does feel rough but unique.

All i can offer as advice is to just take a step back from all gaming media etc. Trust me you will enjoy a game a lot more if you havnt been reading its hype for a year.

[DreXxiN]

The SNES RPG library contains some of the best games ever made.

:). QFT

[furrypaws]

I don't get what was so original about Shadow of the Colossus though. I've only had time to play through the first boss (darned busy schedule...*sigh*), but it just seems like Zelda minus the different weapons, dungeons, overworld monsters, and with a few extra moves. Maybe I just need to play some more of it, and don't get me wrong, the concept of bosses only is original, it just seems like it's half a game. Correct me if it changes later on, but that's all I can tell right now. I sure wish I could play more but homework, running, forums...bleh. x_x

But yeah, I figure if all companies are gonna do is recycle old material, might as well play hacks of the old games for free. Of course, a good hack is hard to come around, but occasionally, you find one that really stands out.

[Seority]

The only thing keeping these things alive is fan-boys/girls and the over advertisment of the game being "New!" and "So cool!" making the people with money to spend just buy it because of that.
The second people's ambition may die, but fan-boys/girls don't. EVER.

[amtalx]

There is NO industry that will stay original. Any medium, including movies, literature, etc. have genres that appear repeatedly. Video games are no different. That aside, originality has absolutely nothing to do with a games quality. I've played tons of "original" games that tried to challenge the status quo and failed miserably. Execution is what makes a game work. Is Zelda original? Absolutely not, but damn near every game is a monument to some of the best execution in the business.

Don't get me wrong, I'm always ready and willing to play original games. However, you are acting like brilliant ideas fall from trees. I ask you, come up with a brilliantly original and commercially successful game without ever recycling a single gameplay element every year for 20 years and see how easy it is.

[Cracka_J]

Don't get me wrong, I'm always ready and willing to play original games. However, you are acting like brilliant ideas fall from trees. I ask you, come up with a brilliantly original and commercially successful game without ever recycling a single gameplay element every year for 20 years and see how easy it is.


Brilliant ideas come from people who's goal is trying to be innovative and unique. When an end goal is instead switched to "who can make the most money", you get companies like EA who care nothing for progress, and will keep feeding you the same thing because you will keep buying it.

The creative aspect is tossed out the window because focus has switched from quality to quantity. If a shit title can be produced and completed in a year cycle, and mass advertised for ok sales, a company would much rather do that then spend 3 years in a development cycle for a great game that doesn't catch the public's eye. They can churn out 3 shit titles in that time and profit. It's disgusting.

What you're hitting at, a completely unique and commercially successful game, would not even make it past the concept stage at a majority of game companies these days, due to the time investment. The industry and consumers THEMSELVES have changed to embrace shit titles with new sequels or updates every year, and they are content with it.

So while my initial post was about change in the industry, it's also about change in the players themselves. If you demand shit, they will keep serving it for you. I'm not content with that, and it's shown in the declining $$ I've spend on games in recent years. I refuse to spend more money on garbage, and if that means I cut back to purchasing maybe 1 new game a year, well that's just how it's gonna be.

[Gunslinger-08]

Back when the gaming industry was young, originality was rampant. New, fun ideas sold games. Thing is, now just about every idea has been used. Epic RPGs? Lots of em. Games where you choose to be good or evil? Lots of those. Those may be vague examples, but the point is that now, things have been so thoroughly thought up that being original =/= making a quality game, on a consistent basis. (Think about it this way. There are a lot of original ideas, but there are going to be just as many bad ones as new ones.)

[Darkly]

lets remember its publishers not developers that are causing the problems you speak of.

its hard for developers to get the ok with original ideas, publishers make the ruels sadly.

[Kylie]

Some people are just looking to make a profit, but there are still some decent titles that haven't had their souls sold. I don't really mind it though because you can say anything's been "mainstreamed." As long as there's money to be made... So I just get what I want to get and don't think about it too much. That's one reason why my collection seems limited.

[amtalx]

Not the be a storm cloud, but there isn't a torrent of brilliant ideas being stonewalled by EA.

Yes, EA has a large part in producing franchises with little innovation. Yes, EA swallows up developers and slips their influence in where it doesn't belong. They are an easy target. However, I've worked with EA before, and they aren't the evil monolith that everyone likes to scapegoat them into.

The simple fact is the industry has changed. Back in the day, you could get into games with a good idea because that's all it would cost. Games were made by extremely small development teams, and if you were dedicated, you could pull it off with a single person. Now, even a game with the most basic production values will cost you about 50 people unless you want to work with sprite based graphics or spend 5 years in pre-beta.

[Darkly]

moreover they focus on churning out yearly updates - which leaves little time for innovation really. Its a shame they make more money by continously putting out samey titles rather than infrequent but more original games.

Yet if you look at the release schedule for this fall, a lot of big titles are coming out and even new concept games like mirrors edge so im still pretty engaged in gaming for the moment.

[Outrider]

God, I can't believe I'm going to do this, but...

EA is actually one of the better publishers out there now. Far from the best, but still doing a pretty good job.

Ouch, that hurt.

Yes, their sports division is a joke within a joke. Yes, they pump out some franchises every single year. But honestly, in the past couple of years, I've been quite impressed with them.

They're putting out a heck of a lot of good games in the next year or so. Rock Band 2, Left 4 Dead, Mirror's Edge, (some people seemed to like) Battlefield: Bad Company, Dead Space, etc, etc.

Sure, those might not all be groundbreaking, and they weren't all developed by internal studios, but do you remember what EA was putting out four years ago? Even two years ago?

They've made some great strides, and I can't help but give them props for it.