Are you going to help pray away the Gay ?

[Indica]

I don't know why they media is not covering this more and I hope to god this get's brought up in the debate with Obama.


Sarah Palin's church hopes to 'pray away the gay' and convert homosexuals to heterosexuals

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1150170,gay090708.article


I can kind of understand the abortion debate and compare it with killing cute innocent animals. But this is total bullshit what this f-ing -- face is doing and treating gay people like 2nd class citizens.

I dont want to get into a long debate about it's history and rip apart religion like a savage wolf, even though I really do. The bottom line is if you vote for her you are supporting Gays to be treated like 2nd class citizens and that is not what America is about.

[Kylie]

They're not covering this because it isn't news. A lot of Christian churches believe that homosexuality is immoral, and many of them pray for people that they think are immoral. I don't care as long as she isn't looking to make homosexuality illegal or something.

[Aisha379]

No big deal.

Like Kylie said, people of all religions pray for other people, way to go pointing that out *rolls eyes*

I don't see this as treating gay people as "second class citizens" either, just because you pray for someone or don't like something they do does not mean you automatically treat them bad / lesser.


Also, this is her church, not her specifically, big difference.

See : Obama and Jeremiah.

Now if we're going to suddenly change the rules because of "LAWL ITS PALIN", and suddenly our churches purely define what we believe and do, then I certainly think we should be more worried about Obama.

[Sord]

They're not covering this because it isn't news. A lot of Christian churches believe that homosexuality is immoral, and many of them pray for people that they think are immoral.

Including the youth pasture at my father's church, who I had to sit and listen to yesterday because I had to attend the group with my little sis (it was her first time in that group and she's nervous around new people, so I went with her.)

Personally, I dislike churches and most religion. Just being in a church is enough to annoy me or put me in a bad mood. I get doubly annoyed whenever they start preaching to people that they need to convert people to such and such. This is fucking America, part of the reason we, or rather, the colonists, came here was so they could get away from assholes who forced their religion on them. That's why all the Christians can have so many god damn divisions (no matter how conflicting they may be,) because America doesn't care if you're a protestant and don't want to follow the Catholic church or any other church. Go ahead and do it, we don't care. What we care about it when you start forcing your own damn morals and beliefs down our throats.

Now some people might say, "It's just prayer, it's not like they're physically doing anything to you." Sometime that's true, sometimes that's not. A lot of people that have "prayed" for me on various issues come to me and are like, "Oh, I'm so happy you were able to do such and such, I was praying for you about this and that and it turned out good!" For the most part, it's family, and I have enough respect for them to nod and say thanks. Though how I really feel about it and act towards others is: keep your prayers to your fucking self. Your prayer did not help me do good in school, your prayer did not get me the opportunities I've been given. I earned my grades through my own hard work, by my own choice to be studious in school. I got opportunities because I went looking for them, and when I saw them, I went after them and used them. As far as I'm concerned, what I did was my own doing, keep your god out of it and to yourself.

[Aisha379]

Came to America because the King was ordering people to be killed for not worshiping the same way he did, which I guess falls under "forced" but really its an entirely different extreme altogether.


My personal belief is to not hassle people about their choices, and I'm a Christian, so you can't really put that on all religions - or just strictly religions, really, as everyone from fashion to TV ads and the such is throwing their opinion out there at everyone.


Although, I do understand what you mean in a sense - some people could learn to be a little more subtle, or figure out that jumping down peoples throats usually scares people away more than helps them (except for some types of people who are few and far between.)

[CelestialBlade]

As much as Christianity thrives in this country, banning homosexuals outright will never pass as a law. Too many people aren't willing to believe things just because someone says so anymore, which is a good thing.

As a politician she should leave her religion out of it, which is why I personally stray away from her, but I don't see how this is any different from the Bush administration's opinion on homosexuals.

[Cracka_J]

She's a religious extremist.
She has more in common with the taliban then she does a pitbull.

[Sord]

Came to America because the King was ordering people to be killed for not worshiping the same way he did, which I guess falls under "forced" but really its an entirely different extreme altogether.

While people certainly aren't as severe as they are now (with a few exceptions like the KKK and other extremist ilk) the same principle should really still apply as far as I'm concerned. I'm one of those guys that believe in complete and separate church and state. Government shouldn't have anything to do with marriage, shouldn't even acknowledge it. They should just have partner's licenses for economical purposes (insurance, couple's benefits, etc.) I don't think abortion should be managed by them, as what most people define as life is mostly spiritual (which falls into religion.) Stuff like that should be left to the individual person. If one church wants to marry a homosexual couple, fine, let them. If another church doesn't want to, fine, let them. So long as there's no financial or social (in terms of social class) impact here I don't care. Basically: religion does it's own thing and does not effect government, social, or economic status. Any act that does this is considered forcing their beliefs upon people and has some sort of penalty. So long as a religious group keeps to themselves and don't intrude into others lives unwanted, all is fine and dandy.

However, I also realize that what I want is completely impossible in our government. People have the right to believe what they want, and that means a government official's belief in what is moral and immoral has a good chance of being grounded in some sort of religion, and they of course are going to push their morals in the government system.

This is a part of the reason I support Democrat and not Republican, they typically don't force their religious morals on people, even if they themselves are active Christians.

[The_Gio]

Religion, you cant win against it but you cant lose without it lol.

the only thing this reminds me of is here where I moved to, these kids were trying to start a gay/lesbian club and everyone just flipped out here saying it was immoral and they dont want their kids exposed to that and just started protesting it. Its like wtf? thats just straight up hardcore self denial if you dont even want a gay/lesbian club. im not even gay and im pissed off at this i can only imagine the real victims

[Powder Keg]

As a politician she should leave her religion out of it, which is why I personally stray away from her, but I don't see how this is any different from the Bush administration's opinion on homosexuals.

This. I don't want someone who is supposed to be a role model / represent the country be anything close to this scum.

[Solstis]

As much as Christianity thrives in this country, banning homosexuals outright will never pass as a law. Too many people aren't willing to believe things just because someone says so anymore, which is a good thing.


If the latter were actually the case, the former could not possibly be true.

[CelestialBlade]

If the latter were actually the case, the former could not possibly be true.
Not all Christians want to control everyone's actions. Some of them, you know, actually follow what the religion is really about.

[astuarlen]

I believe the implication is that, were people truly [un]"willing to believe things just because someone says so anymore", Christianity would not thrive so thoroughly in this country. Maybe that's just me imposing my own views on that statement.
I'm sure a lot of people undertake deep, tortuous, sincere reflection when it comes to their beliefs, and this same burrowing within the self has given me my own delicious, golden chicken nugget of belief: that our most fundamental convictions are often the product of a "just because someone [said] so". It's usually a very important someone--and it's usually a very attractive said-so that looks pretty nice lined up with the rest of our collection--but how else can we acquire values? Mine them from asteroids?
Specifically, I believe Christianity and other organized religions have plenty to offer and plenty of excellent, admirable sentiment. But a Christian is not a Christian because they're nice and accepting and enjoy Easter; Christian theology is built on some very specific, currently unprovable tenets of belief, and one's acceptance of those points naturally relies on someone saying yes, this is true.

[CelestialBlade]

I believe the implication is that, were people truly [un]"willing to believe things just because someone says so anymore", Christianity would not thrive so thoroughly in this country. Maybe that's just me imposing my own views on that statement.
I'm sure a lot of people undertake deep, tortuous, sincere reflection when it comes to their beliefs, and this same burrowing within the self has given me my own delicious, golden chicken nugget of belief: that our most fundamental convictions are often the product of a "just because someone [said] so". It's usually a very important someone--and it's usually a very attractive said-so that looks pretty nice lined up with the rest of our collection--but how else can we acquire values? Mine them from asteroids?
Specifically, I believe Christianity and other organized religions have plenty to offer and plenty of excellent, admirable sentiment. But a Christian is not a Christian because they're nice and accepting and enjoy Easter; Christian theology is built on some very specific, currently unprovable tenets of belief, and one's acceptance of those points naturally relies on someone saying yes, this is true.
You are correct, but I made my point because you can't generalize my statement at the same time. There's a big difference in saying "well sure I'll believe this because it's popular" versus "well sure I'll condemn and loathe this evil group of people who should go to hell immediately because it's popular." People in general are fairly stupid and thinking for yourself is indeed a lost art, but we've really come a long way in our society. Most people find the era of the Crusades and general religious persecution to be pretty barbaric, and most people are even disgusted by how blacks were treated in the early-to-mid 1900s. We simply no longer live in an age where laws like "no homosexuals allowed" are very feasable. Not saying it wouldn't win over some states, but I just think you'd have a lot of trouble passing a country-wide law like that. We really are a more open-minded society than people realize, relative to where our species has been in history.

[Solstis]

You are correct, but I made my point because you can't generalize my statement at the same time. There's a big difference in saying "well sure I'll believe this because it's popular" versus "well sure I'll condemn and loathe this evil group of people who should go to hell immediately because it's popular." People in general are fairly stupid and thinking for yourself is indeed a lost art, but we've really come a long way in our society. Most people find the era of the Crusades and general religious persecution to be pretty barbaric, and most people are even disgusted by how blacks were treated in the early-to-mid 1900s. We simply no longer live in an age where laws like "no homosexuals allowed" are very feasable. Not saying it wouldn't win over some states, but I just think you'd have a lot of trouble passing a country-wide law like that. We really are a more open-minded society than people realize, relative to where our species has been in history.

I wasn't suggesting coercion when it came to Christianity, but what astuarlen eloquently pointed out.

Not to mention that most states have passed laws against homosexual marriage, such as Florida, in which it is illegal twice over, and may become constitutionally illegal. Within that blanket law, domestic partnerships (gay or straight) would be nullified.

I'd like to counter you and say that you're giving society far too much credit. We're not tying people to trees as often (we prefer dragging them after cars or beating them to death after a few beers), but that same sentiment is there.

[CelestialBlade]

I wasn't suggesting coercion when it came to Christianity, but what astuarlen eloquently pointed out.

Not to mention that most states have passed laws against homosexual marriage, such as Florida, in which it is illegal twice over, and may become constitutionally illegal. Within that blanket law, domestic partnerships (gay or straight) would be nullified.

I'd like to counter you and say that you're giving society far too much credit. We're not tying people to trees as often (we prefer dragging them after cars or beating them to death after a few beers), but that same sentiment is there.
Not saying such acts aren't still done, but it's not a fear in every area of the country anymore. I still don't feel that we fear the unknown as much as we used to.

Some states have taken action against non-traditional acts, but we tried to do that to blacks and women and it didn't work out in the end anyway. Homosexuals are becoming rapidly more outspoken in response to religious-based discrimination and in our modern society, in which minorities have more of a voice than they ever had before, I think the growth of such discrimination is going to be curbed at an ever-increasing rate. Maybe 30 years ago you could get away with passing a country-wide law, but I just don't see it nowadays.

[ngagerebel]

can't we all just get along?


Just like anything there are multiple types of people in everything. Christians. You have your the one who practice their religion don't force it upon anyone and who are cool with everyone *including homosexuals and whatever* then you have you over religous preaching morons who throw bibles and state they are doing gods will because we are all sinners and are doomed to go to hell.

as for politics I firmly believe religion needs to be stricly seperated from government. I don't care about this who Church seperated from state and blah blah blah crap.

we have to many polititians who are making judgements on behalf of their religion. The biggest asshole of that right now is George W Bush. He is in for two reason... his oil and his personal agenda. Bush does not care about the America Populous that is why we are in the economy hell hole, thats why Two people who love eachother even though they are the same sex cannot get married or have the same benefits as a married couple. Is Bush could have his way he probably would try to pass a law outright banning homosexuality and I am sure that would please all the religous and white trash hill billy yokels out there. complaining that religous people are outright wrong isn't helping the situation either cause you just alienating and making judgements to a group of people without knowing them.

I have friend who once where homophobic because of their religion and when I came out and it was a big ole mess of drama and crap. I mean it was like they came up to me and told me to my face that they will be praying for my soul cause I will be going straight to hell if I make love to a man again and blah blah blah... after a while the accepted who I was and all was forgiven. Why did they do that because they had someone in their church putting prejudged ideas into their heads stats that all gay people are wrong and immoral...

a person is smart... people are dumb and nieve.


sorry for the misspelled words I don't want to bother with spell check

[Inazuma]

lol how hilarious. first off, praying does jack shit, so they can try as much as they want. its only gonna waste their own time and make em look stupid.

and besides that, being gay is not a choice, so its not fair to oppose it. its like trying to convince all the ppl w/ red hair to suddenly start growing black hair. it just doesnt work that way.

personally speaking, i figured out that i happen to be bi-sexual a few months ago. ive really been bi my whole life but never realized it before. if it were up to me, i would be straight since its the easiest way to go in this society. but no matter what i do, i cant change the fact that im bi. let the idiots pray, its not gonna change anything.

[Solstis]

lol how hilarious. first off, praying does jack shit, so they can try as much as they want. its only gonna waste their own time and make em look stupid.

and besides that, being gay is not a choice, so its not fair to oppose it. its like trying to convince all the ppl w/ red hair to suddenly start growing black hair. it just doesnt work that way.

personally speaking, i figured out that i happen to be bi-sexual a few months ago. ive really been bi my whole life but never realized it before. if it were up to me, i would be straight since its the easiest way to go in this society. but no matter what i do, i cant change the fact that im bi. let the idiots pray, its not gonna change anything.

I recently read a nice bit of Douglas Adams' work in which he compared God to money, and considered both to be fictional constructs that people took to heart. Basically (tl:dr version), believing in exchange rates and whatnot, since money is based on nothing but imposed value, is silly.

But whatcha gonna do?

Also, I'd rather people try to pray LGBTQA-ness away than taking an active stance. That's when shit hits the fan.

[Edit] Solstis sleepy and no grammar good

[Zarode]

Eh.

If prayer is what they think will do best for their selves, then let them eat cake. Honestly, religion and anything (and I mean ANYTHING) just doesn't mix well, at all. Bad mojo and such.

[Hrith]

lol religion

I'll pray so that everyone becomes gay... *looks around* it worked!

[CelestialBlade]

lol religion

I'll pray so that everyone becomes gay... *looks around* it worked!
Unfortunately they all want to jump you now D:

[BahnKnakyu]

Unfortunately they all want to jump you now D:

Jump the French? That's already been done over 50 years ago!

[Sinue_v2]

A person's religion, I feel, typically has very little to do with how competent they are at a job. Excepting in the case of the Amish, I suppose, but that's more of a cultural thing. I tend not to concern myself with it. However, Palin's particular brand of religion is a bit too fundamentalist for my tastes. Like Huckabee, I have a hard time voting into the highest office in the land someone who can look at all the data, listen to all of the experts, and still "rationally" claim that the Earth is only 6,000 years old.

I feel that is enough to seriously question someone's judgment. Not to mention that she's in favor of teaching Creationism in schools, which is fine - for a philosophy class or a religious studies class. But it's NOT science, and does not belong in the science classroom anymore than studies of Darwin's Decent of Man belongs in Sunday School. I do not relish the idea of allowing fundamentalist religion to hamstring this nation's educational system even further by pushing groundless dogma over proven and verifiable observations of the natural world.


And honestly, the way I see it - there's a good chance that you will not be voting for either Obama or McCain this election. You're voting for their VPs, because McCain will likely die in office - and Obama will likely get assassinated. The only question is, which one will get offed quicker, and who would you rather have as a backup? Palin or Biden?


Also, lawl at Pray away teh gay. That's about as silly as praying to change someone's race... o wait...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Sinue/1215438665149.jpg

[Adriano]

Aha Sinue!! 10/10
That billboard made my day.

[Toadthroat]

Palin or Biden?


Palin & Biden?
Obama Pin Laden?
Coincidence?

[Kent]

She's a religious extremist.
She has more in common with the taliban then she does a pitbull.

What's the difference between the Taliban and a pitbull?
Lipstick.

But yeah, this sort of thing almost makes me want to choose to vote.

[SpikeOtacon]

They can pray as much as they want but it won't make anything just vanish.

[Vanzazikon]

I know a lot of homosexuals, gay or lesbo but when I talk to them, they're the same as us. They have problems like us, they like what we like and they do stuff that is in our interest too. Being gay is not immoral, nor is it something that should be looked down upon. I mean I get scared first then mad when they say something really gay to me, but some of them know I'm hetero so they don't ask me stupid questions. (Unless they want a black face that is)

To try and pray gays out of here, man, if the prayer worked, that would be something; however, to actually try to do something like that is weird, I mean aren't diplomats suppose to represent their country. If they wanted to exterminate a group of people, isn't that un-American. If people realized this, how the hell will it win you more votes. You should do something else like avoid the issue because there is a majority who thinks gay is wrong and others just want it to be since we are americans. She may as well lost many votes just for trying to do that.

It seems she desires religion to play a role in the American government. Nobody would want that; I mean everybody would go to church on sundays and you'd be stuck asking where the hell is the freedom our forefathers fought so hard for. Maybe she wasn't in it for the votes; she was merely suggesting her ideals for america if she was elected. Sorry but the republicans just lost one vote.

[KodiaX987]

There are more religious zealots than you believe there are. Just think of the famous "Bible Belt". In most cases, they are certain that whatever they believe in is the right thing and is constitutional. Whoever is affected by an extermination rule is treated as not being human and thus doesn't fall under the protection of the constitution.

[Vanzazikon]

Exactly why I'll avoid the South, these religious folks will probably persecute a liberalist like me.

[drizzle]

There are more religious zealots than you believe there are. Just think of the famous "Bible Belt". In most cases, they are certain that whatever they believe in is the right thing and is constitutional. Whoever is affected by an extermination rule is treated as not being human and thus doesn't fall under the protection of the constitution.

You know the funny thing is, these 'religions zealots' think the same thing about you. Do you believe that what you posted is the right thing? Who can say what is right and what is wrong? ;p

[Adriano]

Well, if you believe what the religious zealots believe, you, are aswell a religious zealot.
If you disagree, then you are sane....well as far as this is concerned. :wacko:
I'm pretty sure the lines of morality aren't so latent in this case.
Last I checked, gay people weren't trying to make any laws banning people, who don't understand what they believe to be true, from anything.
And I'm afraid even most of the "pray away the gay" organizations out there, I'm pretty sure the word 'pray' is interchangeable with the word 'fix'.
Which is just wrong, who gives anyone the right to 'fix' an entire group of people?
Though I'm no moral authority, I just really don't understand spending all of my time, personally attacking a group of people, and doing everything in my power to alienate them...that seems wrong.

[KodiaX987]

You know the funny thing is, these 'religions zealots' think the same thing about you. Do you believe that what you posted is the right thing? Who can say what is right and what is wrong? ;p


If they think I'm wrong, then that's that.

If they think I'm wrong and want to kill me for it, then this is another ball game.

[seph_monkey]

i know what your saying man, that shit is freakin stupid and everyone out here supports dumb stuff like that its total bull

then again everyone is really southern out here

[Blue-Hawk]

I have to quote these two lines from the late. great George Carlin-

1- Who has less abortions than homosexuals?

2- Keep thy religion to thyself.

If we can all just adhere to the second one we can be a slightly happier people.



Outright ban religion and we will be one step closer to true world peace. :P

[Sord]

Outright ban religion and we will be one step closer to true world peace. :P

tell that to the USSR, which collapsed of it's own accord

[DraginHikari]

Outright ban religion and we will be one step closer to true world peace. :P

Not really, human nature dictates otherwise. If religion wasn't around to push other people values around people would just find another way to do it. Those that abuse regilion for gain are no different from those that abuse their money, political connections, or business assets. Unfortunely regilion just like anything else, most stereotype are always based on the ones who shout the loudest in a group aka the extremeists.

[Para]

I don't know why they media is not covering this more and I hope to god this get's brought up in the debate with Obama.


Sarah Palin's church hopes to 'pray away the gay' and convert homosexuals to heterosexuals

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1150170,gay090708.article


I can kind of understand the abortion debate and compare it with killing cute innocent animals. But this is total bullshit what this f-ing -- face is doing and treating gay people like 2nd class citizens.

I dont want to get into a long debate about it's history and rip apart religion like a savage wolf, even though I really do. The bottom line is if you vote for her you are supporting Gays to be treated like 2nd class citizens and that is not what America is about.
I think your dislike for conservatives is already quite duly noted.

[CelestialBlade]

Outright ban religion and we will be one step closer to true world peace. :P
There's nothing wrong with religion in and of itself, it's the zealots and fundamentalists that give it such a bad name. The problem lies within the people that try to force their beliefs and will upon others.

[Hucast-Kireek]

Even without religion, you can feel whats moral and whats not. The human body is a perfect machine and it can detect whats good for you and whats not. But some people just like to exploit the human body. The mind its a powerful tool, it can be use to learn the truth...or block it.

[Solstis]

Even without religion, you can feel whats moral and whats not. The human body is a perfect machine and it can detect whats good for you and whats not. But some people just like to exploit the human body. The mind its a powerful tool, it can be use to learn the truth...or block it.

What?

Where are you going with that?

[Hucast-Kireek]

Just something to think about.

[Solstis]

Just something to think about.

By chance, do you watch a lot of anime?

[pikachief]

Sord's first post :P.



im sorry that some Christians have given u the thought that we force religion upon others :/

idk how they do it around there, around here we just tell u about our religion and leave it at that.

attempting to force a person into a religion is pointless, they have to make the decision themselves just from the simple knowledge of what the religion supports and its values and rules and such.

anyways thats enough religious debating for a week for me lol

[Thalui89]

Even without religion, you can feel whats moral and whats not. The human body is a perfect machine and it can detect whats good for you and whats not. But some people just like to exploit the human body. The mind its a powerful tool, it can be use to learn the truth...or block it.




Unfortunately the human body is imperfect =p

[Aorre]

Not to be stupidly obvious, but are they even aware of how many homosexuals are around? That includes the ones who don't tell anyone.

Yeah, it'll never happen.

[thematesV2]

I think it should be brought up and blasted just for the pure silly and retarded name "pray away the gay!"
hey! lets go lay in the bay! make things out of clay! what do you say?I think I may, pray away the gay!

[RemiusTA]

upon reading the title and first post of this topic, i died laughing.


Unfortunately the human body is imperfect =p

Very much so. The scale of things it accomplishes and the way it works is pretty much close to perfection, but just like your computer it has oh so many flaws at the same time.

Every being does.

Unless of course you're Christina Milian.

[Sinue_v2]

Even without religion, you can feel whats moral and whats not. The human body is a perfect machine and it can detect whats good for you and whats not. But some people just like to exploit the human body. The mind its a powerful tool, it can be use to learn the truth...or block it.

I know this is a bit OT, but to expound on this point with something I've been arguing to Christians/Muslims/etc who believe their Holy Books are the source and inspiration for morality - and that without them we'd be lost in a wave of violence, fornication, and death.

The god of the Bible is a bit of a split personality - the kinder and gentler god of the new Testament and the Fire & Brimstone god of the Old Testament. However, both versions of this god are supposedly one in the same being. His laws layed down in the Old Testament SHOULD be (if he is perfect, unchanging, and all powerful) every bit as applicable today as they were in the days the laws were written.

However, this creates a problem as society and the bible often disagree on what is moral (stoning adulterers, owning slaves, abuse of women, etc - is not condoned or practiced in really any industrialized nation). So those of faith are often forced to pick and choose which laws in the bible to obey and which to discard. The fundamentalists call this "buffet style" religion - even though they do it as well to a slightly lesser degree.

Be this the case, my argument is that if humanity can go through the bible and pick and choose which laws and guidelines are moral and right - and which are wrong - then the bible itself cannot be the ultimate source for our morality. Neither can god, if you assume that the bible is his perfect and inerrant word. So humanity already has a sense of morality and justice without religious documents, because it would need to exist outside of those documents in order to allow us to subject those documents to that moral litmus test.

[thematesV2]

i agree that the rules laid down by the two section of the bible can be very vexing and confusing... but I gain the understanding when I was actively partaking in a Christian lifestyle that the old laws get cancelled out by jesus' forgiveness. it's not to say that the old god was wrong, or that the new testament god has changed his mind, but rather that the god jesus swapped the rules of the game on the old god thus inventing the new god....

you cannot enter into a logical argument with the trinity in mind, unless you plan to devote years of your life to study of theology, in which case, you can only really productively argue with others who have devoted years of their lives to theology...

I have not devoted years to theology, but rather to individuality, art, and pso/psu.

[Sinue_v2]

i agree that the rules laid down by the two section of the bible can be very vexing and confusing... but I gain the understanding when I was actively partaking in a Christian lifestyle that the old laws get cancelled out by jesus' forgiveness. it's not to say that the old god was wrong, or that the new testament god has changed his mind, but rather that the god jesus swapped the rules of the game on the old god thus inventing the new god....

you cannot enter into a logical argument with the trinity in mind, unless you plan to devote years of your life to study of theology, in which case, you can only really productively argue with others who have devoted years of their lives to theology...

I have not devoted years to theology, but rather to individuality, art, and pso/psu.


Personally, I would argue that it's impossible to enter into a logical theological argument without coming to the inevitable conclusion that god does not exist - at least, not any gods painted by any of the major world religions. IMO, a lifetime spent devoted to theology is a lifetime wasted, although it is important to at least know the basics of theological arguments considering how prevalent a role religion plays in our society and world events.

As for god's eternal word being subject to editing by his progeny - I really only alluded to the major atrocities and offenses against humanity such as slavery, murder, and abuse of women - but these laws can be rather inane and inconsequential as well. For instance, God's laws about not being able to wear clothes of mixed fabric or the ban on eating seafood. However, this doesn't negate the fact that even despite Jesus's forgiveness - women are still treated as second class citizens at best, worth less than men by the bible's own examples (despite clarifying that we are all one in Christ despite race, gender, etc) and there was no condemnation of the slave/master relationship.

The bible, whether new or old testament, simply makes no reference to the injustice and immorality of laying claim to another human being and all their progeny as your property. If this is a moral decision, then where does this morality that tells us that slavery is wrong come from? Society certainly did condone slavery at one time, but society has since reversed that stance - not for economic reasons, judicial reasons, or health care reasons - but because it was inherently wrong, and it needed to be abolished.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5MkpzMAOZM

The above video is well worth the watch IMO. The presenter gives his story of the year he lived biblically, good - bad - and absurd. This doesn't get into any of the heavy topics I've touched upon, but demonstrates my original point rather nicely I think.

[HAYABUSA-FMW-]

Seeing as the original topic of the thread has been thoroughly discussed and now is venturing off into a side discussion, although thorough in and of itself, I will close this one and you may continue the new topic in another thread.

If it has inconvenienced you that this was closed early and you wished to discuss the new subject more, drop me, or any staff in Rants, a PM if you need to fully quote one of the last replies for example (but can't as the topic has been closed) to save that work/time/etc. and move it into a new topic. Thanks.