Rifles or bows?

[Majarra]

Ok im kinda stuck right here. Ive been playing protranser for a while and it was really fun. But today my friend helped me get to ranger 10 and with fortegunner i can use rifles which i love as well. I just mostly use shotguns and lasers. Im kinda stuck inbetween of what else to pick. I read here that bows can be shot in different places and do more damage or something like that. But in the end which does more? a lvl 40 bow bullet or a lvl 40 rifle bullet?:-?

[Alastor_Haven]

Bows are slower and Ignore DFP

31 bullets have nothing special

All bow Ultimate bullets are useless - In my opinion dun rage on me haha

Rifles are faster and I think I'm not sure shoot farther

31 bullets have Knock down

I prefer rifles

I have all rifle bullets capped
Burn shot does about 1250-1300's with a rattlesnake+Cati power
Along with I'm a CASEAL
We also have killershot which is very useful on some enemies on the game such as
Robots

Though I can not tell you the same for bows
So someone could tell you that

[Adriano]

lolbows

On my GT, I never used a bow, :l
Rifles look cool to me also so there goes that whole argument IMO.
But yeah I totally didn't read OP so Rifles > Bows it's been discussed alot before, and that's pretty much what youre going to hear.
EDIT: Ok read it, I remember at the beggining when bows were like being hyped up there was the "Bow does damage negating enemy DFP" Argument, but I am pretty sure that whole factoid was proven moot since pretty much in all situations Rifle out performs bow. So yeah.... only if your class only has access to bows (PT) then use the bow.

[Dark Emerald EXE]

I thought bows shot farther....eh oh well...i personally like rifles a lil more(since ive used fortegunner more) but thats the rule of class restrcitions....

hmmm if you want... you could go guntecher and use both :P

[Dark Emerald EXE]

Bows are slower and Ignore DFP

31 bullets have nothing special

All bow Ultimate bullets are useless - In my opinion dun rage on me haha

Rifles are faster and I think I'm not sure shoot farther

31 bullets have Knock down

I prefer rifles

I have all rifle bullets capped
Burn shot does about 1250-1300's with a rattlesnake+Cati power
Along with I'm a CASEAL
We also have killershot which is very useful on some enemies on the game such as
Robots

Though I can not tell you the same for bows
So someone could tell you that

I thought killer shot WAS only for robots :-o. idk thats wat people told me.....

[Alastor_Haven]

Only? Hahaha

The only time I use KS is the following - >

Bots,Gaos,Kozmali

Yes it works

They been 1 shot whatever

I was surprised my self

Other then that Elemental bullets will be best for other mobs

[Majarra]

Hey you can always switch classes! Like omg! i just remembered!

[Tetsaru]

Rifles, rifles, rifles. Oh, did I mention rifles? :3

Just make sure you get your bullets to Lv31+. You'll be able to shoot quickly, deal a lot of damage, apply Lv4 status effects, AND keep your enemies knocked down. What's not to like about that?

As for bows, well... they have that annoying delay before they fire, and they don't have knockdown at Lv31+... o_o; Some people DO like them better though, so it's really up to you. I bet that Nasuyoteri can deal out some good damage in the right hands... I don't have one yet though, so I can't say. =x

[BIGGIEstyle]

Comparatively having the same character (BIGGIE of course) with each weapon in the argument I can say that rifles will mostly out perform bows, but the only situation I have seen is vs. bullet resistant enemies.

Against bullet resistant enemies I've seen Bows deal more damage than rifle shots of a higher level, since their resistance to bullets already nerf your damage down and then you add defense on over that, being able to ignore the defense after being reduced gives you a slight edge.

On my personal note I just plain out prefer bows appearances over rifles. Blackbull is ugly (except the shot) and Rattlesnakes are kinda annoying (to me at least). I think all the bows look great. It's more of a character/player preference though. You want bigger numbers all the time go rifle. You want better damage cuz you're too lazy/dumb to switch to a melee weapon or tech, use a bow.

[darkante]

Only? Hahaha

The only time I use KS is the following - >

Bots,Gaos,Kozmali

Yes it works

They been 1 shot whatever

I was surprised my self

Other then that Elemental bullets will be best for other mobs

Gaozoran enemies easiely one-shotted by Killer Shot?!
Nice nice :D

[BIGGIEstyle]

Gaozoran enemies easiely one-shotted by Killer Shot?!
Nice nice :D

yeah, the fiance' uses KS against them all the time. Makes my life easier when playing my FF

[Kizeragi]

Rifles kill bows hands down, but that doesnt mean bows are useless.
The Ignore DFP on a bow is very helpful to the lower ATP classes.
As a main Protranser, I have all element bows at 40. (Ult bows fail so don't bother...)
As a Level 132 PT 20 I was hitting around ~1050-1100's with each shot with a non grinded Rikauteri. The range diference between rifle and bow isn't really that big, but it is noticable.

So, if in the unlikely case PT was to get rifles (like in PSP) you would be better using a rifle. The knockdown just wins it pretty much, one of the most helpful effects in game.

Of course, this is all opinion in the end. I'd say try both, and use the one you prefer.

[Hrith]

As a Level 132 PT 20 I was hitting around ~1050-1100's with each shot with a non grinded Rikauteri.As a Lv140/20 human Guntecher, I hit 1150+ with a 3/10 Rikauteri, I thought PT had more ATP than GT than that =/

Of course I have my own Lv30 Shifta, but that's only 4% more ATP than Agtaride, Protranser should still be doing more.

Maybe you were not using a power unit?

[Astarin]

You should keep in mind that the argument is moot, unless you're a Guntecher. No-one else can use both Rifles and Bows.

For what it's worth, it seems like Rifles are more worthwhile in the end, especially with the knockdown at 31. But Bows level much, much, much faster. I'm working on getting a Rifle bullet up to par with my Bow bullets on my GT, to try them both out myself.

[Dark Emerald EXE]

You should keep in mind that the argument is moot, unless you're a Guntecher. No-one else can use both Rifles and Bows.

For what it's worth, it seems like Rifles are more worthwhile in the end, especially with the knockdown at 31. But Bows level much, much, much faster. I'm working on getting a Rifle bullet up to par with my Bow bullets on my GT, to try them both out myself.
This is true depending on ur schedule...you could get a rifle bullet to 31+ in a 1-2 day time....

Normally i just get my female cast. switch guntcher and have my cati bullet on....i know it would be easier if i had a newman but i dont have on so...............yea

[Gen2000]

The only good Bow PA is the long-range Frag PA one and that's only if you play De Rol/Dark Fish missions a lot (which I do, love me some Awoken Serpent).

Phantom+10 beats out most of the current Srank Bows even grinded high in terms of killing speed. What's worse is that Holy Ray+10 that's coming from the event is even better than Phantom. And to top of it off, Rifle lv.31+ in general makes Guntecher more support able (one of the main points of the class) than Bows because of the knockdown/big monster flinching ability.

Bow needs an upgrade.

[Genoa]

Bows need a real UPA imo >_>
I think lvl.31 should have knockdown as Rifles have
Bows have higher ATP, ATA, PP. Bows ignore Defense
Rifles shoot faster and can knockdown at lvl.31+
As far as I can tell the range is the same >_>
Let's do a PA comparison with Fire bullets. We'll just get them stats for lvl.40's.
Ensei-sou lvl.40
Att%: 195
Acc%: 72
Elemental %: 38
SE: lvl.4 Burn
PP Cost: 14

Burning Shot lvl.40:
Att%: 200
Acc%: 85
Elemental %: 40
SE: lvl.4 Burn
PP Cost: 16

So originally a Bow wins in ATP, ATA, and PP. But a Rifle's bullets and it's faster speed really make it hard for bows. Especially with lvl.31+ knockdown bullets. (apparently lvl.41-50 Rifle shots have lvl.5 Status Effects, I would assume Bow's will as well, but I only see it for Rifles at the moment)

As stated, Bows need an upgrade D:
I want Bows to be better, but the Rifles are really stealing the show.
Seeing how PT, GT, WT, and FT only have access to bows, I think they should either increase the Att% of bow PA's or their elemental %. Maybe even both? Seriously, it's a single-target weapon. PT does the most Bow damage, but even so, Bow's aren't up to par with most situations. Very few situations actually call for Bow being the best choice. I mean it's really just used for it's range or trying to stick a status effect to an enemy that's highly resistant to low level SE's...
Seriously, I find bow MOST useful for WT when they need range. Cards do well, but if they can't reach...
But how often is it called for? =/

[Hrith]

As Starrz once said, bows should have a penetration effect. Limited to three targets (or it'd be broken).

Bows also need to have their FPS firing rate fixed, it's the only gun which fires more slowly in FPS view =/

[stukasa]

As Starrz once said, bows should have a penetration effect. Limited to three targets (or it'd be broken)./
Oooh, that sounds like a good idea! Bows need SOMETHING to stay competitive, otherwise rifles are almost always better with their faster rate of fire and knockdown effect. But like Astarin said, the only class than can use both weapons is GT so most people don't even have a choice.

[Akaimizu]

Bows had their use, in their time by GTs, back when Rifles didn't get the awesome love they got with the upgrade, and the speed of Bow levelling worked well for GTs rushing to get proper SE4 levels in time for certain early events.

Now, I see myself using the Bow very rarely. In fact, mainly for a specific situation or two in the whole game. The rifle flinch/knockdown, and it's end game power not only severely hurt the late-game usability of the Bow, but several Ultimate PAs for a Guntecher (including Mayalee Prism). On the bright side, it does free up some Guntecher PAs considering they need all those 36 PA slots and more, regardless.

It's hard to find something to power up bows without stepping on something the classes already have use of, in another weapon. Kind of like ST's difficulty with balancing classes, they seem to have too many weapons with too few statistics to make them distinct with.

[Dark Emerald EXE]

I prefer rifles over bows(since my fortegunner savvy) but i like how they put more "coloration/design" to bows.

[Astarin]

As Starrz once said, bows should have a penetration effect. Limited to three targets (or it'd be broken).

Bows also need to have their FPS firing rate fixed, it's the only gun which fires more slowly in FPS view =/

Even just simple splash damage would probably be enough to balance out longbows. Offline, v1, Bows had splash damage, and could hit two (maybe three?) nearby targets. It'd be a relatively simple thing to implement, compared to making the bullets penetrate, but trying to limit the number of targets (without decreasing the bullet range). It also wouldn't step on any other ranged weapons, and would fill a gap that GT in particular is missing: a gun that hits multi-target monsters.

[Majarra]

All i gotta say is.....me likey FG more than PT. Once i get my bullets higher its gonna be so fun.

[desturel]

Bows had their use, in their time by GTs, back when Rifles didn't get the awesome love they got with the upgrade

This is pretty much the whole problem I've had with some of Sonic Team's updates to weapons. Before ST updated rifles with god shot, power boost and elemental boost, Longbows had their place as a slower but stronger weapon. Sure Rifles were better damage over time, but Bows could get initial damage advantage which was important from time to time.

Then ST said "You know, rifles are a bit too weak, lets give them knockdown, an elemental increase and a power boost". Which is fine, but they then proceed to ignore longbows. So not only did longbows lose the initial advantage they had, the also lost one of their few exclusive abilities, knockdown (Masei-sou). Not only that, but they didn't make any adjustments to bows at all. Masei-sou still sucks. Chosei-sou is still too slow for general use (De Rol Le / Dark Falz).

It completely contradicted their giving Guntechers an upgrade to S rank bows with AotI came out. They give Guntechers a useless weapon as an upgrade. They would have been better served with S-rank cards. It fits in with the other Guntecher S rank weapons much better than S rank bows ever did.

[Sexy_Raine]

I thought killer shot WAS only for robots :-o. idk thats wat people told me.....

LOL, look at my sig at Nova's part. see what it says?

Those people are nub gunners that you were hanging with. Killer shot can kill plenty of enemies. Rappies of any kind, Komazlis, Jaggos, Orcdillans, most humanoids such as Rogues or servants, and Delnadians(sp?).

For the main topic, I don't really use bows that much anymore. When I'm GT, I only use them because Nova holds all the rifle bullets, most which are lv40 already. Rifles get knockdown at lv31(KS doesn't though), shoots pretty fast, and is very precise. As for enemy defenses, you have Burning Shot and Dark Shot, both which are better for SEs than their bow counterpart.

Hope this helps

[desturel]

Those people are nub gunners that you were hanging with. Killer shot can kill plenty of enemies. Rappies of any kind, Komazlis, Jaggos, Orcdillans, most humanoids such as Rogues or servants, and Delnadians(sp?).

KS works on Rogues and Special Ops, I've haven't had much success with killing Armed Servants (Taguba / Ozuna) with it. I haven't tried Obme/Basta, but I'm sure they die relatively easily to KS like most of the other humanoid characters. Non-sheilded Vanda and Vahra die pretty well to KS as well. On most creatures that don't take half damage to bullets I just don't bother. It's cheaper and sometimes just as quick to use the proper element bullets. Just my opinion.

[stukasa]

Those people are nub gunners that you were hanging with. Killer shot can kill plenty of enemies. Rappies of any kind, Komazlis, Jaggos, Orcdillans, most humanoids such as Rogues or servants, and Delnadians(sp?).
Orcdillans? That's surprising, I never tried that before. I learned something new today, thanks! :D

[Tetsaru]

Those people are nub gunners that you were hanging with. Killer shot can kill plenty of enemies. Rappies of any kind, Komazlis, Jaggos, Orcdillans, most humanoids such as Rogues or servants, and Delnadians(sp?).


I'm well aware that KS can take out more than just robots, but I feel that it's unnecessary. As long as your bullets are leveled sufficiently against the proper element enemy you're facing, it often takes about the same amount of time to take them out with a normal elemental bullet, as opposed to waiting for your SE to work, at least for me, anyway. The only difference is that you don't have that gawd-awful PP cost of KS constantly draining your rifles, meaning you can go all out and use your power-oriented rifles (Blackbull, Rattlesnake) as compared to your KS rifles (Mizurakihoh, other Yohmei rifles), and equip something like a Solid Power/S instead of a Cati/Bullet PP Save.

...or you could just blast em with shotguns if you just wanna kill stuff quickly, lol. Rifles are more of a long-range, offensive support weapon, anyway; imo, they're best used for covering melee party members from a distance while they use their brute strength to deal the most damage up close, or in situations where melee/shotgun range combat is impractical (such as most non-dragon bosses like De Rol Le, Onmagoug, etc.).

Knowing which weapon to use in which situation is very fundamental in combat.

[unicorn]

I only use bows because they look better than rifles. And I take pride in being an FT with lvl 21+ bullets (since FTs barely touch their ranged weapons nowadays... ._.)

Chousei-sou isn't as bad as people make it out to be IMO. Its usable in all bow situations (if you don't feel like element swapping) and has increased range. It needs a boost though. Make it gain 5% a lvl.

Masei-sou needs in boost though. Make it have SE 4 Stun AND Poisoin. Hurr hurr.

How to make bows better? Give then SE 5 at lvl 31+. Since bows cant get up to 41-50 (unless some Masterarcher-forte-war-guntecher comes out).

1-10 = SE 2
11-20 = SE 3
21-30 = SE 4
31-40 = SE 5

And give them a penetration effect. Hit 2-near targets like offline.

[Kumlekar]

Ok im kinda stuck right here. Ive been playing protranser for a while and it was really fun. But today my friend helped me get to ranger 10 and with fortegunner i can use rifles which i love as well. I just mostly use shotguns and lasers. Im kinda stuck inbetween of what else to pick. I read here that bows can be shot in different places and do more damage or something like that. But in the end which does more? a lvl 40 bow bullet or a lvl 40 rifle bullet?:-?

Rifle is higher damage if you include attack speed into the equation, but you have to aim at the head or other weakpoint for max damage. Bow is same damage no matter where you hit the target.

[Genoa]

I only use bows because they look better than rifles. And I take pride in being an FT with lvl 21+ bullets (since FTs barely touch their ranged weapons nowadays... ._.)

Chousei-sou isn't as bad as people make it out to be IMO. Its usable in all bow situations (if you don't feel like element swapping) and has increased range. It needs a boost though. Make it gain 5% a lvl.

Masei-sou needs in boost though. Make it have SE 4 Stun AND Poisoin. Hurr hurr.

How to make bows better? Give then SE 5 at lvl 31+. Since bows cant get up to 41-50 (unless some Masterarcher-forte-war-guntecher comes out).

1-10 = SE 2
11-20 = SE 3
21-30 = SE 4
31-40 = SE 5

And give them a penetration effect. Hit 2-near targets like offline.
There is one more Master class to be released in the future.
Notice, the three classes that aren't required to get Master Classes is Acrofighter, Acrotecher, and Protranser.
PT Is it's own little thing, but AT and AF...
I mean, why would MF need FT and WT??? WT???? Isn't AT more of a techer-oriented class over WT?
Well that's because I'm almost positive AT and AF will make up the last Master class, some kind of Acromaster.

Don't quote me for sure, but I believe this is what's coming sometime in the future.

[BIGGIEstyle]

Masterforce needing FT and WT makes sense sort of. It's a mix of the current two classes who get offensive spells to the highest (WT capped at 30 but it's better than GT's 20 for now)

AT would make less sense because they get support to 40 and MF is a support TURNIP LoL

Also I think the idea of an acromaster is pretty cool myself.

[Sexy_Raine]

I'm well aware that KS can take out more than just robots, but I feel that it's unnecessary. As long as your bullets are leveled sufficiently against the proper element enemy you're facing, it often takes about the same amount of time to take them out with a normal elemental bullet, as opposed to waiting for your SE to work, at least for me, anyway. The only difference is that you don't have that gawd-awful PP cost of KS constantly draining your rifles, meaning you can go all out and use your power-oriented rifles (Blackbull, Rattlesnake) as compared to your KS rifles (Mizurakihoh, other Yohmei rifles), and equip something like a Solid Power/S instead of a Cati/Bullet PP Save.

...or you could just blast em with shotguns if you just wanna kill stuff quickly, lol. Rifles are more of a long-range, offensive support weapon, anyway; imo, they're best used for covering melee party members from a distance while they use their brute strength to deal the most damage up close, or in situations where melee/shotgun range combat is impractical (such as most non-dragon bosses like De Rol Le, Onmagoug, etc.).



Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying KS is all you need in your mission. A good gunner always has a variety of different weapon in their palette. Use the weapon that fits the situation the best. KS is there is you feel the need to wipe out certain enemies quick. PP save is a good thing to have, I prefer it over an ATP unit unless I'm fighting a boss.

"Knowing which weapon to use in which situation is very fundamental in combat"

Very good quote Tet, I can't disagree :D

[Tetsaru]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying KS is all you need in your mission. A good gunner always has a variety of different weapon in their palette. Use the weapon that fits the situation the best. KS is there is you feel the need to wipe out certain enemies quick. PP save is a good thing to have, I prefer it over an ATP unit unless I'm fighting a boss.

"Knowing which weapon to use in which situation is very fundamental in combat"

Very good quote Tet, I can't disagree :D

Thanks! :3 It just irks me whenever I see people using weapons like rifles, bows, and twin handguns at mid to point-blank range... >_<