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View Full Version : Will the game be limited in size and lack depth?



Nuclearranger
Oct 9, 2008, 09:28 AM
There are really two questions here lets start with the first one.

The DS can only hold somewhere around 1Gb (128MB) there are 2Gb cards (265MB slower loading though) of memory so do you think the game will hit that?

On a good side to this! PSO the entire game episode 1 2 and 4 was only a little over 500MB or for those who don't know that's about half of 1GB. So with decreased graphics they should be able to fit it in. Id also assume they wound not have all of the episodes worth of areas. Especially for the first game.

With time file sizes generally are getting bigger though so fitting the same data down in the size less than PSO might be a problem?

Discuss-

On to the second question.

One of the main reasons people ever complain about PSU is the lack of depth in level development.

Yes PSZ will have dungeons but will they be multi level PSO dungeons that look different on every level? OR....

Be like PSU where you have a single floor that's about 1/10 the size of the first area in PSO and just replay it 4 times. AKA Blocks.

Those who play or vividly remember PSO will know what im talking about.
Example the last area of episode 1 was called the ruins. In the ruins there was ruins 1 2 and 3 all were about 20 rooms and it was more like a maze than a strait line.

LASTLY

Scape Dolls..... IMO RUINED PSU

OH PSU IS TO EASY!?! Well... you can buy endless lives and no one tends to mention this but I think it breaks the game.

I think that is it lol

-discuss

Segya
Oct 9, 2008, 09:49 AM
Personally i have no clue about how big 3d models are, but considering the low resolution the two screens have, the textures will be way smaller than the textures of PSO.

On the other hand, the storage capacity of NDS cartriges is really small (128MB max).

But metroid prime hunters had a pretty big and varied world so it's probably just a design descision in the end.

Perhaps they go with something in between and create a large number of unique and/or easily customizable rooms... it would still loose some of it's charm then though, since it is nice to know the areas by heart to some extent.

Nuclearranger
Oct 9, 2008, 09:58 AM
I believe the NDS can hold 1 GB as I said in the first post let me see if I can find a link or some creditable information on this.

AH! You are correct.

Although there are 2Gb cards.

I read it wrong the first time. I saw GB and not Gb and that is a huge difference.

1 GB is 1024MB but 1 Gb is 128MB lol

The DS currently supports up to 2 Gb cards being 256MB but they are slower in response than the 1Gb.


128MB is the target for faster loading and
256MB is the MAX the game can be.

Sorry for the miss information let me edit my main post.

Continue Discussion

Hucast-Kireek
Oct 9, 2008, 10:23 AM
So basically this game will be less than 1/4th of what PSO was? it is 64bit so that explains it.

Saphion
Oct 9, 2008, 10:24 AM
As long as it has - at a minimum - the same level of content offered by the original PSO, I will be happy.

Ideally, I'd love it to have around the same content as PSO Ver.2.

As much as I'd like it to have Episodes I & II levels of depth, it's far too implausible - for now, anyway.

The online mode, however, guarantees a gargantuan level of longevity and replayability.

Hucast-Kireek
Oct 9, 2008, 10:30 AM
Yeah if it has around the same lenght as PSO ep1 I'll be happy.

If not well...atleast you can draw lol.

Saphion
Oct 9, 2008, 10:37 AM
It does look like it'll have an Episode I style depth to it. We've already seen three levels - it's a Phantasy Star Online tradition to keep the final level hidden until near or after the game's release - which will put us on a par with Episode I's 4 levels.

But what we need to see now are;
- Offline Quests
- Online Quests (I'm not entirely sure these will be possible, but then I know next to nothing about the technology involved)
- Variations on the levels we've seen (In PSO, these were more or less texture swaps, with the exception of Caves 1, 2 and 3). This is more of a cosmetic change than anything, though.

I could live without them... but the above is what PS Zero would need to be on a level with PSO.

An Ultimate Mode would be nice as well.

Nuclearranger
Oct 9, 2008, 10:50 AM
Online Quests are possible on the NDS just to clarify.

Hucast-Kireek
Oct 9, 2008, 10:56 AM
Variations on the levels we've seen (In PSO, these were more or less texture swaps, with the exception of Caves 1, 2 and 3). This is more of a cosmetic change than anything, though.

Yes, there will be variations.

Like the first level the wasteland, will have dawn and daytime, The Swap will have cloudy sunset and night raining, The Snowlevel will have clear night and snowy night.

So yeah, I think it is confirmed.

This game included level designs I wanted to see like a Wasteland a Swamp and specially a SNOW level at NIGHT!

Nuclearranger
Oct 9, 2008, 10:56 AM
They better have more content than 4 areas.... unless they are more like PSO areas because honestly 4 PSU areas will take you... an hour?

Hucast-Kireek
Oct 9, 2008, 11:04 AM
I cant really figure out how it will work on the DS, I understand the PSP but the DS?

I think I'm wondering this because all the games Ive played for DS have been 2D.

Akaimizu
Oct 9, 2008, 11:53 AM
It'll work just fine. I actually have quite a few 3D games on the DS. Not to mention, even the new Zelda is 3D, on the DS (and a sequel to Windwaker from the Gamecube).

The main trick is the resolution they have to work with. On the other hand, that's also a help. I would expect that means the lower texture requirements/resolution, among other things, will make that 1 GB of size seem like a lot of space.

As much as people are used to high memory requirements of High Def resolution textures, large polygon counts to throw them on, a whole host of texture layers, tons of full recorded audio; take note that a Phantasy Star game on a DS doesn't need any of these things.

We haven't seen much of the lobbies and such. We also seem to have story-mode characters talking to each other with nice simple drawn backdrops, etc. The presentation definitely hints at something that can fit in smaller memory reqs than PSO did.

Hucast-Kireek
Oct 9, 2008, 11:59 AM
Is it one Gigabyte? really?

With the MAGs back in town, Will the have nano-blasts or something else? For me i hope they have things similar to SUV's only cooler like a Kamehameha lazer or stuff like that.

But i welcome Photon Blasts again! Which I hope they have.

DraginHikari
Oct 9, 2008, 12:07 PM
There are several factors on a handheld that usually allow you to squeeze more content in then one would think.

First of all unlike the PSP the resolution for the DS is quite a bit lower, models are lower in resolution and by far lower in detail. You can fit alot of these type of models in with revelative lower space consumption. The simpified art style to require far less detail then those of more realistic looking game. I would show FF4 for the DS as a decent example of this.

Sound and Music is also sampled down at a different rate since it doesn't need to be adapted for surround or other sound types then the DS is permitted to have.

I believe they could easily squeeze a number of areas into this if they really wanted to. Just depends on the depth that each area has.

Akaimizu
Oct 9, 2008, 12:08 PM
Hmm. I might be mistaken. Would seem odd if they can't use 1 GB since that was a coming SD medium since the DS was coming out. On the other hand, if it is indeed smaller, I figure they'd be able to do something. They did get a full blown sequel to Windwaker on the thing. And the other factors, mentioned here, free up a lot of space.

DeltaJedi
Oct 10, 2008, 03:56 AM
The opportunity for a lot of content is there. The Japanese game Ash: Archaic Sealed Heat for example is the first (and I think only game so far) to use a 2gb card featuring full voice over and a bunch of videos. I personally am more worried that the game will come out with either a game breaking bug that we're familiar with, or maybe it just won't run all that well in Multiplayer in general.

ShadowInferno119
Oct 11, 2008, 02:32 PM
There are several factors on a handheld that usually allow you to squeeze more content in then one would think.

First of all unlike the PSP the resolution for the DS is quite a bit lower, models are lower in resolution and by far lower in detail. You can fit alot of these type of models in with revelative lower space consumption. The simpified art style to require far less detail then those of more realistic looking game. I would show FF4 for the DS as a decent example of this.

Sound and Music is also sampled down at a different rate since it doesn't need to be adapted for surround or other sound types then the DS is permitted to have.

I believe they could easily squeeze a number of areas into this if they really wanted to. Just depends on the depth that each area has.
Also to go along with that, there is the fact, that most of the chat, is done with 2D drawings, and text bubbles, there doesn't seem to be any Large CG animations, with Talking.

I'm pretty sure that helps. Its been done before, lets hope for the best. (Refers to all the other great RPG DS games.)

the_importer_
Oct 11, 2008, 02:46 PM
I wouldn't worry about that, compression has changed a lot since the days of the DC. Look at Wiiware games, these shit are pretty small, I can put like 7 to 10 of them on a 256MB SD card.

jmanx
Oct 11, 2008, 07:53 PM
yea compression is amazing now a days. MPH is only 64mb. Tales of Innocence is a very big RPG game on a DS with animated scenes as well and voice overs. Namco was the first to have a big rpg with voice and animated scenes and this game was only 128mb which is amazing.

Im still waiting on a translation for this game ;_;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMZ4C7GM8bU

Kent
Oct 11, 2008, 08:51 PM
Palettized graphics are pretty popular for handheld games still, especially for the DS.

It's pretty amazing how much space you can save by not having a full color spectrum of potential data to store. Thus the file size difference between, say, a JPG image and a GIF image.

That, and if you look at the graphics of 3D DS games, the texture resolution is really freaking tiny... Because they can't fit a whole lot of detail onto that small of a screen resolution. When you're working with low-res, palettized graphics, 1 Gigabit of data is a pretty good-sized chunk to work with. When we consider that PSO Episodes 1, 2, and 4 (i.e. Blue Burst) could all fit on a CD-ROM and not take up the whole thing, and had full-spectrum textures that were improved in quality and resolution over the original Dreamcast game... Compression and smart planning can do some wonderful things for file sizes.

Nuclearranger
Oct 15, 2008, 11:38 PM
We will see if file sizes come into play when expansions start coming out if they can include ep1 data or have to leave it out.

Niered
Oct 16, 2008, 12:07 AM
We will see if file sizes come into play when expansions start coming out if they can include ep1 data or have to leave it out.

I dont get all of this conjecture about "expansions" and "patches". It makes as much sense to me as the fear of an online fee.

Since when in the great history of gaming has a handheld had either patches or expansions? Sequels yes, but expansions? No.

Now Im not saying that thats not a possibility in the future, but you guys act like its a possibility for this game, right now. Yes, maybe the TECHNOLOGY is there, that doesnt mean that anyone cares to add those jewels to the already bound-to-sell-well crown of PSZ.

As I have stated earlier, if we got any sort of "expansion" it would be in the form of a "Version 2". A game you would have to buy at full price (just like PSO V.2) that would simply have the bonus content.

Risingsun
Oct 16, 2008, 01:26 AM
Monster Hunter portable and and Phantasy star portable both have patches and downloadable quests. I agree that it is not very likely for PS0, but those are 2 handheld games that do have those features.

Saphion
Oct 16, 2008, 05:26 AM
Trouble is, the PSP has memory sticks to accommodate those things and the DS doesn't. The DSi will, but do SEGA want to do it at the cost of alienating all DS/DS Lite owners?

There's not much use speculating about it now though, at least not until we have some more details on the game.

DraginHikari
Oct 17, 2008, 12:12 AM
Somehow I don't see this game getting patches more then just memory issues because I just don't see this being a fully all out online game like PSO or PSU. We really don't know how extenstive the online feature is other then the fact that you can play in areas... I haven't seen anything regarding it being anything more then this... I may not be accurate in this though.

If what I believe is the case even if the DS could store data I don't think they would do it because other then possible glitches there really is no point to rebalancing or altering the overall game because in reality if it is a limited online mode any unbalance will probably not effect the gameplay enough to encourage ST to do anything with it.

Either way from what I understand isn't Phantasy Star Portable only a locale area multi-player mode anyway?

Gemel
Oct 17, 2008, 04:06 AM
Either way from what I understand isn't Phantasy Star Portable only a locale area multi-player mode anyway?

Yeah but they're making it online by doing something, sorry I don't know much of the details but you can if you check this out.

http://pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152369

Kent
Oct 17, 2008, 05:07 PM
The DSi will, but do SEGA want to do it at the cost of alienating all DS/DS Lite owners?
I don't think you'll have to worry about that. Sega's been pretty complacent with alienating fans as of late.

DraginHikari
Oct 17, 2008, 08:05 PM
Yeah but they're making it online by doing something, sorry I don't know much of the details but you can if you check this out.

http://pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152369

Unforutnely that arrangement is rather difficult at best becasue the only way it's possible is for a person to own both a PSP and a PS3. Not exactly a wide-solution at least not by the standard of people I know XD

:Floda:
Oct 20, 2008, 07:31 PM
Trouble is, the PSP has memory sticks to accommodate those things and the DS doesn't. The DSi will, but do SEGA want to do it at the cost of alienating all DS/DS Lite owners?

There's not much use speculating about it now though, at least not until we have some more details on the game.

Optimistically speaking there may be some chance that our GBA slots may be used for memory expansion, like a GBA SD slot, or a Sega made Flash memory expansion using the GBA slot.

I know, It's quite far fetched, but it seems feasible in theory.

EDIT: Come to think of it, by the time Phantasy star zero is out, in its first 6 months to a year the DSi could have expansions, downloadable weapon packs, etc....as DSi exclusives purely for sales incentive.
Though that level of alienation from the other DS model users would be cruel.

Tigernado
Oct 20, 2008, 10:28 PM
Depth no, size maybe.

Niered
Oct 20, 2008, 11:05 PM
Depth no, size maybe.

Please validate your statement. Depth no? Im sorry, Im pretty sure weve already been guaranteed a deeper combat system than that of PSO. Its essentially PSO+Dodge+Special attacks+Strafing.

So depth? Definitely there.

Tigernado
Oct 21, 2008, 12:03 AM
No I meant that there probably is NOT going to be a lack of depth, especially because of the things you mentioned. Size "maybe" meaning it could be an issue, but it remains to be seen.