Understanding Phantasy Star Item Drop System

[Firegod]

Hello all, my first post.

I have been playing Phantasy Star for Gamecube since it released ages ago. Even now that i have a Wii, me and my freinds still play the game because its so addictiing. (Side note, im not playing PSO+)

However, even though im not new to PSO, im very new to PSO-World. I love the site because it has alot of info that i never knew about before.


Where my question/complaint comes in, is that for some reason, even after packing more than 600 hours (i know for alot of you that may be chump change) i still cant see to actually get good very rare items.


What needs to be considered is that although i play with freinds sometimes in multi mode, i mostly play single mode and as you can guess since im still playing the Gamecube version, I play offline (wish there was still a open server lol). I have 4 characters, however most of my time goes to my Female Hunter who is a Whitill at level 141.


What im trying to understand is how the drop system/rare monster system actually works. I have done TONS and TONS of Forest runs. Forest is very easy to do, and you can complete one run in well under 30 minutes, but even still, i have never seen a Hildator, and i have NEVER gotten a Red Weapon.

The rarest item i have gotten so far was given to me only about a week ago. It was Electro Frame, and i got that from a EP2 Love Rappy that i had seen for the first time in my PSO life!

Sorry im on a rant lol

I really need understanding of the PSO system. For example, when a monster spawns, does it already pre determain what monster is going to apear when you load the forest, or since some monsters have special forms, does the game actually have a system that tells it when to spawn the special forms? Or maby does the game just spin a wheel and if it lands on a special creature it loads it....

For items, when you kill the monster, does the game keep track of how many of that certain monster you have killed, or once the monster is killed, does the game randomly generate a item right at that moment, and it may or may not be a rare?

Are some rares like red weapons only available online? Cause i cant get one to save my life....

Are the rare drops better in multi mode or maby they are better in online mode?


I know i have alot of questions and im very sorry, but its frustrateing playing this game over and over and over again, and STILL haveing nothing decent to show for it!

Any information or any threads that could help me would be completly apreciated.

:-?

[Sazega]

To be honest, all rare monsters are a 1/512 chance. But, that doesn't mean out of every 512 you will see one. So, you may fight 511 Hildets and not see a Hildetorr as the 512th. Also, no, it does not pre-determin. So, everytime you play, it's a "crap-shoot" as some would call it, or just however you turn to luck out. Also, no, for getting items from monsters that's just a chance too. This game is all about chances. lol

Red weapons are obtainable offline, and drops are only "better" in multi-mode because you have more creatures. In multi-mode the reason the monsters come in such higher waves is to try and pose a challenge to the players, this is also why they are stronger and have more hp and defense. If the monsters didn't get stronger, than ultimate multi-mode would be too easy.

Also, about the chance thing... The first time I ever played with my main HUmar, who is currently 137, I found an Al Rappy on my first Forest trip ever. But then I didn't find a rare version of a rappy on that character until I was level 103 or somewhere around there.

Also, I found two Hildetorr and have gotten 1 Syncesta. The chance of getting that is 1/22. And then... certain monsters give you items and the chance is like 7/8, so it's like a 87.5% chance of getting it... And I've had to kill 3 before I get it.

The game is all about chance, for rare monsters, try the pipe trick.... but for regular monsters with no rare counter parts, play in multi-mode so theres more of them. And if it's something that is a little too challenging, like maybe ULT ruins, just play offline. Just keep trying, you'll get something good soon.

[Splash]

First off, welcome to this place.

Next, I have splitted your questions part to make it easier to find your answers.



What im trying to understand is how the drop system/rare monster system actually works. I have done TONS and TONS of Forest runs. Forest is very easy to do, and you can complete one run in well under 30 minutes, but even still, i have never seen a Hildator, and i have NEVER gotten a Red Weapon.

The rarest item i have gotten so far was given to me only about a week ago. It was Electro Frame, and i got that from a EP2 Love Rappy that i had seen for the first time in my PSO life!
You probably realize this by now, but the rare drops are based on what section ID you have. You must know that there is no other way to change your section ID on your character, and therefore, there is no way that the drops can change. This should be obvious to you, but I felt it was worth mentioning since there are some people who think they could change IDs due to something in game, but that's not the case.


I really need understanding of the PSO system. For example, when a monster spawns, does it already pre determain what monster is going to apear when you load the forest, or since some monsters have special forms, does the game actually have a system that tells it when to spawn the special forms? Or maby does the game just spin a wheel and if it lands on a special creature it loads it....
For each area, there are numerous "map" variations you could have. The monsters that appear are in their fixed spots everytime you load a specific map.

As for their "special" form, there are only 4 monsters in episode 1 and 2 monsters in episode 2 that can have a rare counterpart, and you can find that information in one of the guides on this site. Their appearances are dependent on a simple probability rate of 1/512. As Sazega puts it, this does not mean for every 512 Hildetorrs you will see one. It means that is your chance of having one appear.

We typically compare that situation with a dice. Imagine a 512-sided dice, all with equal sides. The number 1 is the number that the monster will turn rare. Each time you appear into the area, all monsters that could turn into a rare form will throw this imaginary dice. If the dice lands on 1, then the monster in question will turn into a rare form. If the dice number lands on a number other than 1, then it won't change.


For items, when you kill the monster, does the game keep track of how many of that certain monster you have killed, or once the monster is killed, does the game randomly generate a item right at that moment, and it may or may not be a rare?
Like rare monsters, a rare item dropping is like a dice rolling game again. For each one that you kill, you get to throw the imaginary dice. The number of sides it will have will depend on what what the probability rate is.

So we take the example of your ID and let's say you are trying to find a Red Saber. Under your Whitill ID, your drop rate for the Red Saber is 1/371 and it drops from Hildelts. So for each Hildelt you kill, you get to throw a 371-sided dice, again the number 1 will resemble the rare drop that you want, the Red Saber. If the dice lands on 1, it will drop the rare. If it lands on the other numbers, it will drop something else instead (weapon, recovery items, meseta, etc.)


Are some rares like red weapons only available online? Cause i cant get one to save my life....

Are the rare drops better in multi mode or maby they are better in online mode?.

See Sazega's post.

[halibabica]

First off, welcome to this place.
As for their "special" form, there are only 4 monsters in episode 1 and two THREE monsters in episode 2 that can have a rare counterpart, and you can find that information in one of the guides on this site.

Fixed it for you.:D

Also, just out of curiosity, what are the odds of a Photon Drop appearing? Seems like anything and everything can drop them, but they're almost always a disappointment. Anybody know?

[Splash]

Oh thanks. I was thinking about Mil Lily and Love Rappy only. Forgot about the Hildetorr. x.X

[Firegod]

Ah i see, thank you all for the advice, basicly it just means that im extreamly unlucky haha.

So if im reading correctly when i go into forest and each monster spawns, if they have a rare form, its a 1/512 chance it will apear, then on TOP of that, the monster will have a 1/X number of actually dropping the rare weapon. So as Sazega and Splash were saying, everything is calculated at that moment in time, nothing more or less.

I guess that makes me happy, its good to know the game isnt biast twords online play. I seriously thought it was because i hadnt been online that the game was not dropping items....but it does make sence that it just SEEMS like the drop rate is better because of the monsters added to multimode and online play.

Well...guess i have to keep trying. I really want to get a handgun Milla, but that is darn near impossible, and i wanted to actually see a Hildeltor and maby get a red weapon in this life, but with my luck being this bad, i may never get it XP

Got to keep trying.

[Splash]

That's right, just got to keep killing.

Handgun: Milla is definitely a super rare weapon. Remember, it's a 28808-sided dice you are rolling each time a Tollaw gets killed so the odds of landing the correct number is really against you. But that does not mean it is impossible. Good luck with it though.

By the way, if you really want to see a rare monster, here is something you take a read at:

http://www.pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=723

Note: Don't do it unless you want a busted Wii faster.

[Firegod]

Thanks for the info.

Im not sure if i want to Pipetrick or not. I know its odd to say, but i have been playing the Gamecube version for sometime now and i am still take alot of pride in being legit.

I know pipetricking isnt exacly "dupeing" but its still a way to get what you want out of the game sort of unfairly, so i may try it or i may not.

All in all the info is good to have, because i have always been curious as to how it works, thanks alot!

[Sazega]

Fixed it for you.:D

Also, just out of curiosity, what are the odds of a Photon Drop appearing? Seems like anything and everything can drop them, but they're almost always a disappointment. Anybody know?

Photon drops are 1/137[or so] on anything in Ultimate. Any creature, and monster, and area. So, they aren't to rare. lol

[Sazega]

Well, if you still have your gamecube, you could always do the pipe trick on there. So if it eventually breaks [which takes a while, trust me. I've done like at least 20 pipe tricks on my gc and it still runs perfect. Maybe like 1 or 2 seconds longer in loading, but no difference. For now. :-D]

And piping isn't really cheating, as in Splashes terms... it would be like... a Re-roll or Re-do of that dice roll. I think they purposely made the easiest way of finding rare enemies as a gamecube killing technique... so you would do it and break your gamecube and gbe forced to buy an other one o.O. Okay, maybe not. lol

But in all seriousness, good luck hunting.

[nukeforum]

If you use the pd stack trick, it causes rare items to be impossible to find (with a few exceptions... I'm not sure of the specifics). Just as a heads up.

[3---Hit---U]

If you use the pd stack trick, it causes rare items to be impossible to find (with a few exceptions... I'm not sure of the specifics). Just as a heads up.

Stacked Pd's don't count, however, 11+ of other stackable items will destroy you drop count.

[Alpha2009]

Hey I'm new here, but I was wondering as a reply to the PD stack duplicating trick: your saying if you stack 99 PDs and use that to get 99 of another stackable item, it ruins the drop counts.

Is this permanent? If you go back to 10 or less can you get drops? Or is it once you do the dupe you can't get rare drops at all and must start over?

[Ketchup345]

Bank (or sell/junk) the stack, and turn system off. When it is started up again, drops should be normal.

[Alpha2009]

Thanks. So as long as you don't have 11+ you can get normal drops? If you have 99 PDs in the bank and 1 say.. trifluid in the bank, and use the PDs to give yourself 10 Trifluids, it won't ruin the rare drops?

[DC_PLAYER]

nope, 10 trifluids is considered OK by the game, so drops will apear.

[SStrikerR]

Well, if you still have your gamecube, you could always do the pipe trick on there. So if it eventually breaks [which takes a while, trust me. I've done like at least 20 pipe tricks on my gc and it still runs perfect. Maybe like 1 or 2 seconds longer in loading, but no difference. For now. :-D]

And piping isn't really cheating, as in Splashes terms... it would be like... a Re-roll or Re-do of that dice roll. I think they purposely made the easiest way of finding rare enemies as a gamecube killing technique... so you would do it and break your gamecube and gbe forced to buy an other one o.O. Okay, maybe not. lol

But in all seriousness, good luck hunting.20 pipes is virtually nothing, fyi.

[Alpha2009]

Thanks for all your help. I have one more thing to ask about the PD thing. (Yes I used to do this trick, even before reading this I stopped but had some leftover 11+ items)

On 2/4 of my characters I use, I sold all but 10 of the stuff I had 99 of. I restarted the system. I am on my RaMar right now. He has nothing over 11 , but there is still my FoNewm who has stuff over 11 (I haven't used him in a while)

Will my RaMar still get rare drops since he has Allowed item amounts? Or does it have to be where all of your characters must have allowed item amounts?

I obviously don't understand the PSO system too well :P

[halibabica]

20 pipes is virtually nothing, fyi.

I think he meant twenty piping sessions, which is a good bit more.

As for Alpha2009's question, I don't see why stacked items on one character would affect the drops of another unless the two were working together. Even so, it shouldn't be too hard to get rid of all your stacked items on all your characters. Do you really need them anyway?

[Alpha2009]

Well I wasn't using a character or 2 and didn't want to bother. However I decided to level them a bit now and now have 10 or less of everything and no your right I don't need them. It was just one of those things you read about and are like "really? I want to try that" thinking there's no harm in it anyway.

Well, problem solved. Thanks once again.

[MeruAmura]

I must say Welcome and good choice on class lol. I onyl got the GC version for myself recently -played online several years on my bro GC- and becore that i rocked the DC world. But Like you I also Have a Hunewreal Whitell who is only 49 right now. Here is a list of things ive gotten allready
Booma claw x2
Rappy wing
Varista
Double Saber
M&A60 VICE
DB saber
Slicer of Assassian x 20
Photon drop

The game is pure chance sad to say. Keep trying hard. Heck ive ran Hard/VHard dragon at least 30 times EACH tring to get the Mushashi to drop the guide said 20 runs on average to get it but all i ever see are Monomates. Good luck on your gaming though.

P.S.
Vhar/Ult
Do Fake In Yellow wait till your in the Resedential part -the room before then end of quest- And do the telepipe trick that how i got my Rappy wing and Al Rappy