Which is stronger - Newman gunner or techer?

[Seira7]

OK, I hate to start a brand new thread just to ask this, but I recently started playing again and decided to make a Newman female. A non-loli one :p The obvious path would be a techer class, but before I start leveling up PAs, Im curious, who would be stronger overall, a Newman F fortetecher or gunmaster. I know I would be weaker than a cast etc. statistically so no other race suggestions please, no race flame wars.

I know Newman F fortefighter would be stronger than techer, because of just attack, the PAs etc, but I'm not sure if gunner would trump techer. I guess I just cant decide which one. I know they made PA leveling easier, but with limited time to play, I cant see myself leveling all technics and all bullets o.o SO any advice is welcome ~ and yes, again, I know Newman F gunner would be weaker than the other races. But I can't stand looking at cast anymore...so yeah. Tall, sexy and pointy eared she will stay. Im just not sure what class I will go with.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

GM is more versatile but fT can do more damage in certain cases.
When you get to Colony GBR fT will get screwed due to lack of light element techs anyway.

[darkante]

Are you sure you are just thinking stronger? What class do you wanna play as?
That is what you should ask for yourself.

[unicorn]

A Newman in a Fighter or Gunner role is still stronger than any Newman techer.

Gunner is probably easier for Newman actually, since ATP doesn't mean much to most guns, its all about bullet levels. I think the only guns that really rely on ATP are Rifles and Laser Cannons. Plus, rangers don't need reeeally good equipment to be deadly. Although you have much more damage potential as a Fighter.

Any race can do anything. SUV is just a luxury, you don't really need it.

[amtalx]

I've never run with a Newman GM so its hard to say. The low ATP will definitely hurt you, particularly with Shotguns, which are basically just a base ATP multiplier. Still though, you are probably better of with GM over fT.

[Seira7]

Well Im doing runs for an LKK for her, when she does finally get to that point.
At least the ATA is there in oodles, so it would be a good unit. Itll take a Newman longer to equip s rank armor though.

Im probably just going to solo with her So my gimpiness will not be hindering others ...
I may end up trying AT too for a more party oriented char...however,

Ive never used offensive techs, much less leveled them, and I dont like the idea that after capping them and spending all my mes on good equip, I will do so-so damage. (see: fortetecher)If I give up on the Newman gunner idea totally, I can at least have some bullet PAs to try on another race.
I guess Ill just give it a whirl and see. thanks for the advices :p

[desturel]

A Newman in a Fighter or Gunner role is still stronger than any Newman techer.

Not true. It's completely situational. In most situations a gunner would be stronger, but not in all. Seed Express, for example, would be much faster as a techer than a gunner. Demons Above otoh would be faster as a gunner. I've done all of the basic and advanced classes as with my neuman as well as Gunmaster and Masterforce (will go to fighmaster after I cap all of my techs and bullets) and there's never a situation where one class will dominate another 100% of the time.

[unicorn]

Not true. It's completely situational. In most situations a gunner would be stronger, but not in all. Seed Express, for example, would be much faster as a techer than a gunner. Demons Above otoh would be faster as a gunner. I've done all of the basic and advanced classes as with my neuman as well as Gunmaster and Masterforce (will go to fighmaster after I cap all of my techs and bullets) and there's never a situation where one class will dominate another 100% of the time.

Not 100%, but in most situations Gunner would be better than techer. And any situation favors Fighters (even bots sadly).

[amtalx]

I can do way better at SEED Express as a GM than as any techer. With the exception of The Ardites and Bal Sozas, everything lines up well. Laser Cannons shit damage faster, and hit more targets than anything a techer can dish out. There are missions where techers are faster, but SEED Express isn't one of them.

Only mobs with med-high HP are better for fighters. Gunners are better at dishing out 0-sec damage since their attacks have no warm-up time. By the time fighters get off one of their big damage PAs, the mob will already be dead.

[desturel]

I can do way better at SEED Express as a GM than as any techer. With the exception of The Ardites and Bal Sozas, everything lines up well. Laser Cannons shit damage faster, and hit more targets than anything a techer can dish out.

I'm not sure about that. Rising Prism (level 43 Needle Cannon 8/8 ) does about 1600 per shot for me as a Gunmaster. Damdiga (level 44 Psycho Wand 9/9) does about 1300 as a techer to dark creatures. Damdiga does damage faster than Rising Prism in my experience. Mainly because I have to move out of the way with Rising Prism while I can just stand there with the dam spells until every dies.

Plus techers kill mother brain faster. Barada Diga and Grav Shot is much slower at taking out arms than Diga. Now I'll have to try it again after I max everything out, but I can't see things going much faster as a gunner.

Easier, sure. That extra HP is always useful and since you play a cast, you also have the easy button (aka Paradi). Faster, not that I've noticed.

[Sexy_Raine]

The race damage gap is smallest as a gunner, esp. if you abuse SE's. My F human, Nova owns S2 Gainozeros with Burning shot 41+. Gunners require knowing what bullet to use to fit the situation, and leveling them makes a big difference.

[thunder-ray]

When it comes to motherbrain I prefer to use my gunner in that kind of mission. As I agree that a techer can take out the arms of the motherbrain faster I prefer using my gunner. When it comes to motherbrain distance is your friend.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

Plus techers kill mother brain faster. Barada Diga and Grav Shot is much slower at taking out arms than Diga.
Grav Shot seems to be faster based on personal experience in parties.
Maybe due to the fact that the game keeps coming out with new Arm units whilst forces are still stuck with Quick/Smart.

[desturel]

Grav Shot seems to be faster based on personal experience in parties.

With neuman Gunmaster 20, Grav shot hits one spot on the arm for about 500~550 damage (Rattlesnake 6/10 Grav Shot 43.) Cast Gunmasters are probably hitting around 700. (someone else would need to give me that number. My cast isn't gunmaster 20).

Barada Diga was hitting 4 to 6 spots on the arm for about 300 points each (SN/G 8/8 ). I would guess a cast with LKK is around 450 points per shot).

As a neuman Masterforce I was hitting around 3000 per diga (pushan 10/10) to one spot.

Now I've done the run much more as a masterforce than I have as a master gunner, but I average around 20~25 mins solo as a masterforce and around 30 mins as a gunmaster. That was for an S rank clear. I'd have to try it again to get current numbers. I could also try and speed run it since gunmaster should get through the initial part of the mission faster. Gunmaster has access to traps and Rifles/Shotguns to take out Bal Soza, as opposed to Nosdiga. I've occasionally been able to get the 1hit KO with megid and killer shot, vs the Bal Soza, but not consistently enough to rely on them at Master class costs. (BTW, megid tears through Bel Pannon, Golmoro, Volfu and Go Bajilla pretty easy, but the PP drain is pretty horrible. A 10/10 pushan lasts about two spawns)

I have a Vijeri/resist so I don't constantly have to dodge megid. As a masterforce, buffed Deljaban and Seed Ardite are about the only things to worry about (no paradi and no nano as a neuman so I actually have to fight the creatures that appear ;) ). I know the spot where Delnadian disappear so they aren't really a problem

As a gunmaster I'm a bit more fragile even with the extra HP since I have to dodge the megid more often. Megid does around 200 more points of damage per ball when switching to gunmaster from masterforce, but the real difference is the level 1 HP restore from Giresta. It's more useful than most people realize.

There's also a glitch with mother brain where occasionally she has double or triple HP (can't really tell for sure, but it's at least double). So that would hurt the speed run as a Gunmaster a bit more than it would hurt the time of a Masterforce.

Again, this is just my experience from playing a neuman gunmaster and neuman masterforce.

Oh and earlier when I quoted 1600 damage with Rising Prism, I must have been thinking with Acrotecher buffs since I just tried now and only got around 1200 per shot. Masterforce was still around 1300 damage.

If someone else is getting drastically different numbers, let me know. I can try to get more standard equipment since most of my gunner stuff is hodgepodge since it's my secondary class while my techer stuff is mainly 9/9 or 10/10. Also I haven't capped my bullets so I might see a drastic difference when I get them capped as opposed to the early/mid 40's.

[amtalx]

I'm not sure about that. Rising Prism (level 43 Needle Cannon 8/8 ) does about 1600 per shot for me as a Gunmaster. Damdiga (level 44 Psycho Wand 9/9) does about 1300 as a techer to dark creatures. Damdiga does damage faster than Rising Prism in my experience. Mainly because I have to move out of the way with Rising Prism while I can just stand there with the dam spells until every dies.

Plus techers kill mother brain faster. Barada Diga and Grav Shot is much slower at taking out arms than Diga. Now I'll have to try it again after I max everything out, but I can't see things going much faster as a gunner.

Easier, sure. That extra HP is always useful and since you play a cast, you also have the easy button (aka Paradi). Faster, not that I've noticed.

Are you using an LKK? I easily hit near 1700 with a Love Inferno 6/6 and Lvl 40 Rising Prism. I don't even have the element boost from 41+ yet. Bullet growth of Laser Cannons from 41-50 makes Dam- tech growth look pedestrian.

[desturel]

Are you using an LKK? I easily hit near 1700 with a Love Inferno 6/6 and Lvl 40 Rising Prism. I don't even have the element boost from 41+ yet. Bullet growth of Laser Cannons from 41-50 makes Dam- tech growth look pedestrian.

LKK is on my human right now. I'll do a run tonight with the following equip:

Armas Line
LKK
Needle Cannon 8/8
Megistaride

and let you know what numbers I see, but remember, neuman male gunmaster 20 only has 1290 ATP. That's less than a Cast Gunmaster 1 which was around 1300 IIRC. LKK would add 360 ATP which would take me up to 1650 which should be around the same amount as a Cast Fortegunner 20 without a LKK

[FOnewearl-Lina]

On this side:
Red Line
LPC
Love Inferno 10/10
Megistaride

Laser does around 22xx damage on a caseal.
Compared with around 16xx from damdiga using a rod(?)

And shotgun rapes Ardites (splash damage) and Bal Sozas, whereas Sozas is tech resistant.

[desturel]

I'll do a run tonight with the following equip:

Armas Line
LKK
Needle Cannon 8/8
Megistaride

With this equip on my neuman Gunmaster I was again getting an average of 1600 damage.

[Gen2000]

Good GMs can take out Motherbrain arms just as fast as techers. Yeah Rifle shot may only do 650-700ish to the arm but they are doing about 3-4 shots for every one Diga from the techer and they don't have to move around so they're constantly doing damage.

Also when she does the arm punch and leaves her arm out there, that is prime time for Shotgun splash damage. Due the position of Rifle shooting she will do the move quite a bit for a GM soloer.

And as they keep releasing arm units and rifles Gunners will just get better at it while techers won't be improving. I mean Psycho Wand/Pushan is pretty much it isn't (I haven't seen any JP players mentioning any new rod/tcsms to get for a long time)?

I mean not to take any thunder away from MF since Motherbrain one of the few bosses their not sucky against but GMs are no slouches either vs. her.