The Killing Of A Class!! Tech nerf update

[unicorn]

You know, I can't really complain much because I knew this was coming sooner or later. So I was prepared for it.

BUT!

Is it me, or are we getting this patch MUUUUCH quicker than JP got theirs? If I recall correctly, they got their patch a few months after MF.

[OG GhettoNerd]

After reading what is going down tonight with this maintenance I got really happy when I read about all the bug fix's. The only thing that was A big let down was the Tech's being displayed as lvl 21 tech's!!!! This, for me, is going to kill my MasterForce!!!! Every morning as well as at night, before I went to bed and after I had been running missions all day, I would spend a few hour's just leveling spells!!! Now to hear all that work was in vain is a BIG BLOW to me!!! Now if the Technics still come off as level 41 to me, but only 21 to others then the blow is not as bad, but still a blow none the less. I know this was done to make all the other players happy who aren't playing as Force's or MasterForce's and who are experiancing slow down, but what about making the non Ank Jabroga or Tornado Dance user's happy by not allowing these attacks to knock enemy's all over the place! There is now no real way to tell apart the ForteTecher's or MasterForce's without a player telling you. Even as a ForteTecher this would upset me to play all this time with Technics maxed at level 40, just to have them reverted back to a lvl 21 Technic. Maybe these blow's would not be as bad if the MasterForce class had somthing given to them to compensate for this, but number one, we would have to have more people than just my self to complain about the Technics just as the MasterForce's were complained on, and number two, the compensation would have to be BIG!!!!!!

[AC9breaker]

After reading what is going down tonight with this maintenance I got really happy when I read about all the bug fix's. The only thing that was A big let down was the Tech's being displayed as lvl 21 tech's!!!! This, for me, is going to kill my MasterForce!!!! Every morning as well as at night, before I went to bed and after I had been running missions all day, I would spend a few hour's just leveling spells!!! Now to hear all that work was in vain is a BIG BLOW to me!!! Now if the Technics still come off as level 41 to me, but only 21 to others then the blow is not as bad, but still a blow none the less. I know this was done to make all the other players happy who aren't playing as Force's or MasterForce's and who are experiancing slow down, but what about making the non Ank Jabroga or Tornado Dance user's happy by not allowing these attacks to knock enemy's all over the place! There is now no real way to tell apart the ForteTecher's or MasterForce's without a player telling you. Even as a ForteTecher this would upset me to play all this time with Technics maxed at level 40, just to have them reverted back to a lvl 21 Technic. Maybe these blow's would not be as bad if the MasterForce class had somthing given to them to compensate for this, but number one, we would have to have more people than just my self to complain about the Technics just as the MasterForce's were complained on, and number two, the compensation would have to be BIG!!!!!!

O dang dats messed up homie.

[Calsetes]

Compensation could be all those people who were jerks and posted "NO MF PLZ OMGROFLZORZ" into the comment area and being booted when you joined parties because "party leader doesn't like being lagged."

But yeah, if I played a force class and had this happen to my techs, I'd be pretty upset also. Hopefully they do do something to offer a bit of compensation for it, maybe making them all a teensy-weensy bit stronger? Just bump them all an extra..... 5-10%? Like I said, I don't play Force classes so I'm not sure if that'd make a huge difference or not, but it'd be something, at the very least. I know I got visual lag, but I just cranked my resolution down when I went to play my Master classes so it wasn't as severe as it would have been.

[ashley50]

Why bother about others not seeing your techs at their full glory? >_>;
You can Still see it...what's the problem there?

Or Do you also want to see Other MFs techs too?

[KuroShinnen]

You can still see the Techs at 41+, it's just others who see them as 21. Techers need to stop being so selfish and stop complaining and be thanking Sega for this. This update means not as many Techers will get booted from parties.

Seriously, stop complaining and be a little more thankful that you no longer have to solo as a Masterforce.

[Smidge204]

If I understood everything about this update, techs should still display as level 41+ for you. They were nerfed because of the inconvenience to other players.

But just to make sure I understand your wall of text: You are upset that you can't make the game more difficult to other players by filling the screen with gigantic balls of light which completely obscure the battlefield and, in some cases, make the game nearly unplayable.

You are upset that you can't show off, basically.


There is now no real way to tell apart the ForteTecher's or MasterForce's without a player telling you.

Or you could hit CTRL a few times (Or whatever the PS2/360 equivalent is) until "Fortetecher" or "Masterforce" appears over that player's head. or you could, time permitting, go through the party menu and view that player's stats.

Beyond that, you don't seem to fully realize that this is a purely graphical modification and does not effect the speed, damage or other effects of the attacks. Your comparison to Tornado dance and Ank Jabroga is therefore completely moot.
=Smidge=

[Billy Mitchell]

You can still see the Techs at 41+, it's just others who see them as 21. Techers need to stop being so selfish and stop complaining and be thanking Sega for this. This update means not as many Techers will get booted from parties.

Seriously, stop complaining and be a little more thankful that you no longer have to solo as a Masterforce.I agree.

Thank you Sega for your crappy programming and one solution fits all laziness!

[JAFO22000]

This is something that seems huge, but will end up being insignificant in a few weeks. I would actually feel more slighted as a non-techer class, as I would not be able to see all of the techs in all of their big, explode-y glory.

As a techer, you will still be able to see your techs at 31+ and 41+ so what is the big deal?

The only thing that gets me is the total lack of testing that ST did for this. If these techs were tested even a little bit pre-release, the lag should have been caught and their visuals should have been reworked for use without lag. Hell, nothing on this game should lag; even a PS2 should be able to run this game smoothly. Just another check mark in the list of incompetancies for this company....

[Cracka_J]

Why bother about others not seeing your techs at their full glory? >_>;
You can Still see it...what's the problem there?

Still, that's not the problem. Several friends, myself included, have gaming pc's built for handling these...and more. Some of them don't play techer and still want to see the fx. Why should they be nerfed when they have a pc more then capable of handling it?

Granted, people are getting pissed about this for the wrong reasons. PS2 should not have to deal with the tech lag/spam. Still, the option should be there for PC/360 players who desire to see the fx (still not sure how bad they lag on 360, but still should be up to the players to turn on/off).

Seriously, how would you feel after spending a decent amount of cash on a gaming rig, only for the company that made it to tell you "uh, ps2 users lag so we're just taking them out". I've said it many, many times before...it's just a lazy fix that needs to be resolved. Then the people who get lagged or are blinded by the techs don't have to look at them. The people who want eye candy can still leave them on. A simple enough solution, that is far from simple with segac.

[NexGen]

Your compensation is that you won't be booted for lagging everyone to death.

I think that's more than enough.

[Billy Mitchell]

Seriously, how would you feel after spending a decent amount of cash on a gaming rig, only for the company that made it to tell you "uh, ps2 users lag so we're just taking them out". .
I'd feel pretty stupid.

[Calsetes]

I agree with the option for making it available on PC systems. I think it'd be nice if we could toggle it on or off if we wanted. Maybe if they make another expansion (an expansion expansion, or expansion^2, if you will), they can make it a toggleable option.

[OG GhettoNerd]

Just to clear up the "MISS" quote by Smidge204. I am not upset that I can't "show off". It is not only about "MY" Technics but also others. When I am playing with a friend who has his Diga at 40 and he has been working to get to 41 and he gets it there while in a mission with me I can't share in his acomplishment as I watch his Diga ball transform into a massive planettoid. Also, if you read correctly, I stated that I was unsure if it stayed at 41 for my self but looked 21 to every one other than me and if so it would soften the blow.

[Akaimizu]

A toggle option would not be good. In order to help keep an action game, like this, in sync; particularly across systems, it helps if everybody was on the same page, for this. They'd probably have a cow trying to work out complications based on who has the graphic-tech-limit on or off.

Remember, this limit, in the first place, is sort of a quick fix due to a miscalculation of making the tech graphics streamlined and scaled properly to be futureproof. The proper way would be to retool the tech graphics for better performance and yet artistic enough to look splendid in their own right; however, this change may be more complicated than it looks.

Still, the effort here is not to kill a class, but to aid a class.

[Smidge204]

Consider the blow softened, then.

Also, note that only Forces have any significant variation in their PA's visual effects from leveling. If that's all you care about then you're still ahead of everyone else. "Share in his accomplishment" indeed.

It still boils down to "wah I can't show off anymore" even if you include your friends into the mix. It has zero effect on actual game play unlike some other tweaks they've done, so I politely suggest that you'll get over it eventually.

Edit: Akaimizu - I'm not so sure. The graphics are 100% client-side after all, so making it an option should not present any technical difficulties. For example, you can already set numerous other graphical options like texture detail and shadows. What this entails in terms of patching the client is another matter... it might be a very unwieldy solution to implement. (As an amateur programmer, though, I can't think of any reason why "If (tech_lvl > 21) tech_lvl = 21;" is any harder than "If (nerf_tech_flag == 1 && tech_lvl > 21) tech_lvl = 21;")

=Smidge=

P.S. Thanks for the info, ZeroTheBurninator.

[Cell132]

Still, that's not the problem. Several friends, myself included, have gaming pc's built for handling these...and more. Some of them don't play techer and still want to see the fx. Why should they be nerfed when they have a pc more then capable of handling it?

Granted, people are getting pissed about this for the wrong reasons. PS2 should not have to deal with the tech lag/spam. Still, the option should be there for PC/360 players who desire to see the fx (still not sure how bad they lag on 360, but still should be up to the players to turn on/off).

Seriously, how would you feel after spending a decent amount of cash on a gaming rig, only for the company that made it to tell you "uh, ps2 users lag so we're just taking them out". I've said it many, many times before...it's just a lazy fix that needs to be resolved. Then the people who get lagged or are blinded by the techs don't have to look at them. The people who want eye candy can still leave them on. A simple enough solution, that is far from simple with segac.

Agreed. I don't play a force, but I still wanna see the Fx. PC users should have the option to switch it back on. I haven't seen this update atm, so I'm not gonna get all ticked yet.

Small insignificant downgrade that others won't worry about later? Maybe. Just remember, these pile up to become major problems in the game itself. I'd be angry cause it'd be just another step in the wrong direction.

This is what happens when you force muilti platform with games that shouldn't have it. If there's a problem with one, there's a problem with all of them.

[desturel]

A toggle option would not be good. In order to help keep an action game, like this, in sync; particularly across systems, it helps if everybody was on the same page, for this.

Except that not everyone is on the same page. The person using the tech is still going to see the same thing they always saw.

BTW, there is no syching across systems done on this game. The game is played locally and then the data is transported to the server.

Have you ever run a mission and seen a creature teleport from one side of the screen to another (Ubakrada, Magashi, Orcdillian, Galdeen, etc)? That's because they were is a different location on another screen. Ever see your PM smacking a creature and no damage being dealt to that creature? That's because the creature is not there on another player's screen, so the damage isn't being calculated (I have no idea why NPCs can't hit creatures on your screen unless they are also at the same location on someone else's screen BTW). Ever notice your NPC take damage and die even though there was nothing there on your screen? That's because they took damage on someone else's system.

You say they have to keep things in sync, when they have never bothered to do that before.

As for the assholes saying "you should be thankful for not being booted from parties", why should I be thankful that a bunch of dicks in the game would want to play with me?

I'm fine with soloing as a masterforce and I don't need to be thankful for f'tards and morons.

[LuigiMario]

Every force shall look like a crappy force and shall be the victim of idiocy (stupid people).

[Calsetes]

My "be grateful you don't get booted" comment was meant to be sarcastic, as given away by the "OMGROFLZORZ" afterwards. Plus, I agree with the synching thing - I used to play with satellite which caused horrible horrible amounts of lag between me and other players - synching was never an issue before. Adding a toggle option would be equivalent to adding any of the other graphic settings on the options menu - no toggling techs would be equivalent to saying "you have to play at resolution X by Y with these settings because that's what PS2's use," and I know that would make TONS of people upset (myself included). I really don't think it would do anything major other than causing the developer (i.e. Sega) work a bit at their code to figure out how to make it work, and thus it would take a while before we got an option like that.

[Kaloa]

I don't really mind the nerf, but I only solo and play with my husband, so slowdown hasn't been a huge problem for us. He has noted that my diga is so big that it covers his whole screen.. but I think he found it funny, not annoying. xD

But yeah. While I'd love for this to be optional I'm not going to stop playing a masterforce or enjoy it less because of this. My enjoyment has nothing to do with what others see or think. As long as *I* get to keep seeing my enormous diga balls I'll be having a good time~

[Akaimizu]

Well, I don't really know how the techs are programmed, or what they have to do with sync. I do know some examples of strange results caused when certain folks catch the slowdown when the rest don't in which the worst affected elements are techs. I've seen system crash results when stuff like that gets out of line. So I would say, the overall not an option is a programming CYA. (er....cover your butt).

[OG GhettoNerd]

I am not crying about anything. All I am saying is it sucks and I wish that there was another way around the problem. I know, as I stated, that it is causing slow down for some. I don't know what can be done to find another way around it but maybe if alot of people dislike it maybe they will be forced to take another look at the issue. That's all. If not, LMAO, it's not like my MasterForce is my only 140+ charactor or even my first love for that matter. So yes, lol, I will get over it.

[Sherminater]

Man, I didn't realize how many people jump on a person like a rabbid dog just because he is upset by something in the game of Phantasy Star...

[desturel]

I've seen system crash results when stuff like that gets out of line.

The system crash was caused by the robot slowdown bug. You were in the run with me at the time so you should remember. It wasn't just the techs that were causing the lag, but the robot slowdown on Train Rescue.

The tech lag is a bit different. It's more like the spot slowdown in Egg Thieves, The Dark God, Flowery Pursuit, The Black Nest, etc. If they were worried about any type of synching issues from tech lag, they would also need to fix those missions to fix the spot lag. It doesn't appear that they are in any sort of hurry to fix those any time soon though.

[tadtwisted]

Before masterforce came out i was really against this nerf, but now that i see whats going on it still sucks but i do see the need for it. LAG SUCKS!!! Diga makes the screen come to a crawl. the real problem is sega's inability to make a game anymore. your telling me my dreamcast was able to handle 4 forces casting rafoie like crazy all the time on dial-up but my 360 cant handle 6 forces doing diga on broadband??? hell i get lag when 1 person does diga. i understand that this is a port of a pc/ps2 title but this is where they make a mistake, i think everyone knows that it was gonna be bigger on the xbox. sega needs to realize that japan isnt the biggest video game market anymore.

[Kylie]

I wish the TECH fix would have been made optional, but my PS2 (well, PS3) will take this because 31+ TECHNICs really are a bitch when it comes to lag. I'm a little concerned though... I understand a little upset over this because it's a big step backwards, but too much is basically admitting that a large part of the reason why you leveled your TECHNICs (why is this capitalized?) is because you want to impress other people. I mean, I think you'll still see your own visual effects, and everything will work the same. It's a nuisance, yeah, but it's not the end of the world.

[ESABON]

You can still see the Techs at 41+, it's just others who see them as 21. Techers need to stop being so selfish and stop complaining and be thanking Sega for this. This update means not as many Techers will get booted from parties.

Seriously, stop complaining and be a little more thankful that you no longer have to solo as a Masterforce.

Yeah, they will still do the same damage, but won't make anyone else lag.

[overstockr1]

Don't take this the wrong BUT THANK YOU SAGA now maybe I can see what I;m fighting
MF blinds the hole screen game unplayable to others.
I love this update!
I play a force to not MF but a real force FT level 146 at lest I can heal and buff the party.
FT is what a force is mint to be not blinding everyone in the party.

[mvffin]

Man, I didn't realize how many people jump on a person like a rabbid dog just because he is upset by something in the game of Phantasy Star...

this guy is right. we should all hold hands and sing campfire songs.

[Criss]

I don't play any of the pure techer classes, but as someone that has a PC that can handle the visual effects, it really is a big letdown. The fireworks and general chaos caused by techers somehow added some action and, indirectly, fun to the game. To those who say they can't play because they can't see what's going on, lern2minimap. :3

[SammaeltheDark]

I'm in the "I use a beefy PC that can more than handle your piddly effects, so only nerf the graphics on inferior systems like PS2/360" camp. I also enjoy spamming high-level Nosdiga and watching the shinies on Techs, especially when there are multiple Forces gathered together

Heck, PC should have an option to limit Tech effects or not just in case someone has a crappy PC

[Finalzone]

Like some posters posters, providing the ability to turn graphical effects like huge Technics on/off is a good idea on PC on Xbox360. That option has been used for long time on many MMRPOG and other PC games so it should be trivial for SEGA to include it. At least we some SEGA stuffs around listening for suggestions and it is about time the company addressed many issues.

*still waiting for a merging between Japan and oversea servers*

[OG GhettoNerd]

this guy is right. we should all hold hands and sing campfire songs.
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Inazuma]

you would rather be forced to play in all MF parties? at least w/ the visual nerf, you are able to play w/ all the other non MFs out there. of course it should be an option, but if you have to choose to have it or not, isnt it more important to be able to play w/ others, than having pretty explosions and having most players hate you for it?

anyway, right now you are outraged but give it a month or so, and you will be adjusted to it and understand that its overall better than how it was before.

[Sherminater]

this guy is right. we should all hold hands and sing campfire songs.

I will start to sing "Micheal Row Your Boat Ashore" if you would like??

[BahnKnakyu]

I am in the "beefy PC with a GTX 280" camp, but I actually come from the camp of users that hated the fact that I couldn't see shit in a party with too many MFs. Although Edward stated that the tech visual fix was a (bandaid) way of fixing the slowdown, the ORIGINAL reason why this fix was made on the JP side was NOT because of the lag, but because JP players were bitching about how fucking BLINDING the techs were.

I've stated this before in another thread, and I believe Inazuma did too - this fix wasn't for YOUR benefit, it was for the JP players' benefit. They weren't complaining about slowdown, the JP players were complaining about how fucking blinding the techs were.

Even though I hate how half-assed the fix is, I don't mind it because it will allow me to spam blinding techs and not hamper my party by blinding *them*.

[Asahina]

I just read the update for tonight and I was very happy to see that there will be some improvements for the game. But, on another note, I saw something that made me upset.

Quote: "TECH display has been changed in order to prevent graphical slowdown. If a skill over level 30 is used, the level 21 skill effect will still be displayed."

What in the world is this? Are we just trying to just please the fighters and gunners now? I thought this was a MULTIPLAYER game where we try to show our weapons and pa's to other users. What is the point if you try to take that away from us? I know for certain that there are people out there who love to see the high level spells but do not want to play a techer. Just like in reverse, I like to see the pa's of a fighter and gunner, but no wish to play either one of them.

If want to make that fair, then place both gunners and fighter's pa levels to 21 as well. That's fair, yes?

If there are complaints about lag, then don't play with the techers. At least with that, you are giving us an option. I have NEVER had any complaints of any lag, so I don't see what the big deal is. This is a game where we all come to have fun. Please don't take that away from us.

This disappoints me a lot, Sega. I always looked forward to leveling my spells and showing them to my friends on this "online multiplayer game." If you are going to take that away from me, then why don't you just give me a game that has single player option - WITH expansion options.

Thank you.

[Csero]

...there is already a topic discussing this.

[Yuudai_Riisu]

whine, whine, whine, and where is the cheese?

You should know this would happen, because Japan recieved the update...

[Akaimizu]

As I said before, I kind of wished they retooled the tech graphics instead of limiting them, but their choice is their choice. Mini map kind of helps, but there's lots of things that require pinpoint precision from the player, and the mini map gives you only a general direction. I've now seen the techs actually keep even the target indicators from being visible. The old ones hardly ever did that. Even our old infamous ice blind attack 21+ dambarta left the target indicators visible. And while I've often worked around that by simply noting that I have to use best guesses then, I know people of less patience would probably have issues with it.

[Tetsaru]

This so-called "fix" is simply more BS programming on Segac's part. Had they taken to time to see how high-level technic graphics affected slowdown in the first place when they were making the God-forsaken game (along with all the other lag/slowdown issues, for that matter), we wouldn't have this problem, now would we? Seeing planet-sized Digas and Megids flying across the screen not only looks cool imo, but also tells me that the player actually took the time to level those techs in the first place. Now we won't be able to tell an AT from a MF without checking their class beforehand...

I can just see it now: players who know nothing of the updates and don't encounter many lagging issues are going to be bashing FT's and MF's for not having their techs leveled sufficiently when they see the gimped animations, and more arguing about who has the highest level buffs because we won't be able to see which ones are the strongest...

Brilliant, Segac. Fucking BRILLIANT. -_-X

[Sexy_Raine]

Question for TC, do you plan to stay MF when this happens? Just Curious.

As for topic, I don't care anymore. I'll be bandwagoning to Gunmaster, more fun than MF anyway.

[Yuudai_Riisu]

This so-called "fix" is simply more BS programming on Segac's part. Had they taken to time to see how high-level technic graphics affected slowdown in the first place when they were making the God-forsaken game (along with all the other lag/slowdown issues, for that matter), we wouldn't have this problem, now would we? Seeing planet-sized Digas and Megids flying across the screen not only looks cool imo, but also tells me that the player actually took the time to level those techs in the first place. Now we won't be able to tell an AT from a MF without checking their class beforehand...

I can just see it now: players who know nothing of the updates and don't encounter many lagging issues are going to be bashing FT's and MF's for not having their techs leveled sufficiently when they see the gimped animations, and more arguing about who has the highest level buffs because we won't be able to see which ones are the strongest...

Brilliant, Segac. Fucking BRILLIANT. -_-X

I love all the posters, who talk about programming, as if they knew anything about it.

[Vent]

whine, whine, whine, and where is the cheese?

Anything wrong with people stating their opinion? Even though the arguments used are very questionable, there's nothing wrong with someone sharing their frustrations and opinion. Instead of calling someone a whiner, people should point out the flaws in their reasoning. People have the right to talk for themselves.


I thought this was a MULTIPLAYER game where we try to show our weapons and pa's to other users.
...
If there are complaints about lag, then don't play with the techers.

So how do you show those techs when people don't play with you?

[Chuck_Norris]

Anyone who complains about this just likes to show off. >_>

[Yuudai_Riisu]

[QUOTE=Vent;2237412]Anything wrong with people stating their opinion? Even though the arguments used are very questionable, there's nothing wrong with someone sharing their frustrations and opinion. Instead of calling someone a whiner, people should point out the flaws in their reasoning. People have the right to talk for themselves.

True, true, and very true. It so monotonous when you have 3 topics explaining same damn thing XP

[Tetsaru]

I love all the posters, who talk about programming, as if they knew anything about it.

I had a year of computer programming when I first started college, though I admit I've forgotten most of it now, lol. =P Care to enlighten us?

[Cracka_J]

Anyone who complains about this just likes to show off. >_>

Stop flamebaiting and go back to your PS2 chuck :lol:

[Gen2000]

I am in the "beefy PC with a GTX 280" camp, but I actually come from the camp of users that hated the fact that I couldn't see shit in a party with too many MFs. Although Edward stated that the tech visual fix was a (bandaid) way of fixing the slowdown, the ORIGINAL reason why this fix was made on the JP side was NOT because of the lag, but because JP players were bitching about how fucking BLINDING the techs were.

I've stated this before in another thread, and I believe Inazuma did too - this fix wasn't for YOUR benefit, it was for the JP players' benefit. They weren't complaining about slowdown, the JP players were complaining about how fucking blinding the techs were.

Even though I hate how half-assed the fix is, I don't mind it because it will allow me to spam blinding techs and not hamper my party by blinding *them*.

This is the correct reason. Some of the lv.41 even blinds the castor themselves like Gidiga, Dambarta or Damfoie. SonicTeam just messed up on them, if this was a 1P game the size of those lv.41+ techs would be ok but guess they didn't consider more than 2 MFs to be in the same party or something. Instead of altering/condensing the techs to a more considerable size while still keeping their lv.41+ uniqueness they just do this blanket fix. Probably because a real fix would require another expansion I guess.

Saying this will fix lag/slowdown is a freaking joke, some of the lv.21+ techs are just as bad in terms of causing lag so all this "it's PS2 fault durdurdur" stuff is pointless. A group of MFs can still lag you Rafoie spam if they wanted to.

I really don't care because I knew it was coming and the *****ing from JP/US meleers was too strong.

[Vent]

True, true, and very true. It so monotonous when you have 3 topics explaining same damn thing XP

Couldn't agree more. But that's a whole different matter. :P 'whining' and 'making new topics that already exist' isn't the same.

[Smidge204]

I can just see it now: players who know nothing of the updates and don't encounter many lagging issues are going to be bashing FT's and MF's for not having their techs leveled sufficiently when they see the gimped animations, and more arguing about who has the highest level buffs because we won't be able to see which ones are the strongest...

Brilliant, Segac. Fucking BRILLIANT. -_-X


Party -> View Status / Equip.

Problem solved.
=Smidge=

[Tetsaru]

Party -> View Status / Equip.

Problem solved.
=Smidge=

I'm already well aware of that method. My point is that it's going to be a hassle having to stop and do it in EVERY party with a techer now instead of just being able to look at their techs on the fly and say, "OHHH, so you DO have Lv. 50 buffs." I heard in another thread that support magic wasn't going to be affected by this change though, so I dunno... it's still a half-assed fix no matter how you look at it. What about the people who lag simply from casting their own techs? I rest my case. =/

[Aeris the techer]

You all have this whole thing wrong. This person is upset about the fact that
SEGA has taken away something that MAKES THIS GAME. "What do I mean by that?"
I mean this game is based soley on showing off and being the better player. You don't agree?
then either 1: you are lying or 2: you are in denial
everyone knows that this game is nothing more than people going around doing
missions and getting red / knights and millas and getting rich, and leveling your photon
arts. But what drives us? the opportunity to show off what we've got and you see it
every day all day from everyone. If you disagree with the fact that this isn't fair
then why don't you go level every spell to 50 and tell me how you feel now that
nobody is going to see your hundreds of hours of hard work. Or maybe we should just go ahead and put a cap on ALL traps (which cause the most lag) skills and bullets.
because, THAT is fair. I understand that you feel that masterforce classes are laggy
but you aren't seeing that this "Update" is also going to affect our hardworking acrotechers.
so congratulations! your complaints are going to cause the PSU population to drop even more.

[Gen2000]

Are we just trying to just please the fighters and gunners now?

Yes. It's been that way for a while now.

[Calsetes]

Honestly, if people are going to argue over who has the highest rank of PA, then maybe they should..... like... play the game. I really don't care if the guy next to me has every single one of my PAs at max level and brags about it, it just means he probably had more free time on his hands to level them. I've been playing since launch (with only a year's break in the middle) and not one of my PAs has hit the cap. Then again, I did have Tornado Break maxed when the cap for it was... like... 30.

But hey, if they like it, then who am I to judge? As long as they don't try starting stuff with me, it really doesn't bother me in the least. First time someone complains about it though, they're getting a swift kick in the face with my size... uh... whatever shoe size my main has.

[Yuudai_Riisu]

You all have this whole thing wrong. This person is upset about the fact that
SEGA has taken away something that MAKES THIS GAME. "What do I mean by that?"
I mean this game is based soley on showing off and being the better player. You don't agree?
then either 1: you are lying or 2: you are in denial
everyone knows that this game is nothing more than people going around doing
missions and getting red / knights and millas and getting rich, and leveling your photon
arts. But what drives us? the opportunity to show off what we've got and you see it
every day all day from everyone. If you disagree with the fact that this isn't fair
then why don't you go level every spell to 50 and tell me how you feel now that
nobody is going to see your hundreds of hours of hard work. Or maybe we should just go ahead and put a cap on ALL traps (which cause the most lag) skills and bullets.
because, THAT is fair. I understand that you feel that masterforce classes are laggy
but you aren't seeing that this "Update" is also going to affect our hardworking acrotechers.
so congratulations! your complaints are going to cause the PSU population to drop even more.

So 41+ spells makes this game? we only had them for like a month, and you should know that japan had this update..

[Calsetes]

You all have this whole thing wrong. This person is upset about the fact that
SEGA has taken away something that MAKES THIS GAME. "What do I mean by that?"
I mean this game is based soley on showing off and being the better player. You don't agree?
then either 1: you are lying or 2: you are in denial
everyone knows that this game is nothing more than people going around doing
missions and getting red / knights and millas and getting rich, and leveling your photon
arts. But what drives us? the opportunity to show off what we've got and you see it
every day all day from everyone. If you disagree with the fact that this isn't fair
then why don't you go level every spell to 50 and tell me how you feel now that
nobody is going to see your hundreds of hours of hard work. Or maybe we should just go ahead and put a cap on ALL traps (which cause the most lag) skills and bullets.
because, THAT is fair. I understand that you feel that masterforce classes are laggy
but you aren't seeing that this "Update" is also going to affect our hardworking acrotechers.
so congratulations! your complaints are going to cause the PSU population to drop even more.

If someone got their skills to 50, then they deserve a congratulations. I really don't care if I'm the best player or not, and I'm not in denial, and I'm not lying. I like my low-level Protranser having a Kohbutimeri (or whatever that friggin' Cupid's Bow is called) and having a Koltova Gun, and I don't care that my Fortefighter's skills aren't all 40 yet (heck, some of them aren't even 31 yet, I think). I pretty much play because I like the game, and I like how (mostly) unique my guy is.

Again, if you're into being the best, then cool. Not everyone is, though, and those that aren't are probably pretty content with that. Now, as for techs being level 50, if they are, good job. If not, then oh well. Bigger animations aren't usually better, just as bigger numbers aren't always the best for everyone's play style. (Not trying to start a fight, just saying different things for different people.)

[Vent]

then either 1: you are lying or 2: you are in denial

Or 3: you're claiming the truth too rashly.

Usually, people play soccer to have fun and not to say "nubz, I'm better than you!". Would you say that PSU is different?

[xBladeM6x]

Tech nerf = win. The option to turn it on/off = FAIL.

[Aeris the techer]

So 41+ spells makes this game? we only had them for like a month, and you should know that japan had this update..

you (again) missed the point that its all about showing off. that may include
skills, bullets, armor, armos slots, weapons, etc. lol SEGA gives us the opportunity to see other players' palettes to create competition. Nobody would care about what YOU have if they, from the beginning, did not allow us to see this. But hey,
this isn't the last time this will happen with SEGA, so I'll hold on to the edge of my seat.

[Cracka_J]

A couple people have noted that support techs do not get the visual nerf...so AT's won't suffer anything from this.

Also, yes. Visuals/graphics are a part of the game and do make a difference.
If they didn't you'd all still be playing ET on atari.

[Yuudai_Riisu]

you (again) missed the point that its all about showing off. that may include
skills, bullets, armor, armos slots, weapons, etc. lol SEGA gives us the opportunity to see other players' palettes to create competition. Nobody would care about what YOU have if they, from the beginning, did not allow us to see this. But hey,
this isn't the last time this will happen with SEGA, so I'll hold on to the edge of my seat.

Sounds like an attention whore to me. XD When I play this game, I could care less what anybody has. lol

[Aeris the techer]

If someone got their skills to 50, then they deserve a congratulations. I really don't care if I'm the best player or not, and I'm not in denial, and I'm not lying. I like my low-level Protranser having a Kohbutimeri (or whatever that friggin' Cupid's Bow is called) and having a Koltova Gun, and I don't care that my Fortefighter's skills aren't all 40 yet (heck, some of them aren't even 31 yet, I think). I pretty much play because I like the game, and I like how (mostly) unique my guy is.

Again, if you're into being the best, then cool. Not everyone is, though, and those that aren't are probably pretty content with that. Now, as for techs being level 50, if they are, good job. If not, then oh well. Bigger animations aren't usually better, just as bigger numbers aren't always the best for everyone's play style. (Not trying to start a fight, just saying different things for different people.)

and this is comletely understandible. However, you must agree that the only thing that drives players to get things such as red / knight is to have it for everyone else to see. you can't tell me that you would'nt take advantage of the fact that you have something not many people do.

[Cracka_J]

and this is comletely understandible. However, you must agree that the only thing that drives players to get things such as red / knight is to have it for everyone else to see. you can't tell me that you would'nt take advantage of the fact that you have something not many people do.

:lol:

The +255 att / +180 acc with no restrictions or drawbacks may also have something to do with it.

[Calsetes]

I don't agree that that's the only reason people want things, but I will agree to disagree, and I'll leave it at that and not get further off-topic.

[amtalx]

That makes no sense. Since when are options bad?

[Vent]

Also, yes. Visuals/graphics are a part of the game and do make a difference. If they didn't you'd all still be playing ET on atari.

That by itself is very true, though I'm not sure what you're trying to add here. xD

Also, no I can't agree that showing off is the only thing that drives people. If that is really what you think, I'm certain that your opinion tells us more about your world view than about other people. You'll be lying if you said that they're a lot of people that don't fall in our category.

[fay]

meh i agree with the OP

im severly pissed off about this. actually im so pissed off about it that im either going to quit for good or i shall never play as a techer again

[Darius_Drake]

I personally play the game because it is fun. I have a techer and I personally liked seeing high level spells, but at the same time certain high level spells could seriously lag everybody else. I am guessing that is why they are doing this. If that is the case I really understand their reasoning. At one point I did want to get stuff to a nice level, but after all of these additions making it easier to make money and easier to level trying to be the superman player lost its luster to me. I basically play this as a social fun game and that is no lie. I pretty much like the update they are giving us.

[fay]

as an addition to what i said above i have never actually had anyone complain to me about lag etc.

though i do know some spells lag not all do.
for instence zonde 41+ this does not cause lag. only a selected few do that. the ones i noticed were diga,ra megid, ra foie. no other spells in this game have caused lag for me when i play another class.

even at that they should be reduced to 31+ not 21+. at 31-40 diga looses its lag problem.

[Yunfa]

"GRAB TEH PITCHFORKS N TORCHES & BAAAWWWWWWWWW!"

People with only a techer does not know how it feels to be using, lets say a Gravity Break in the middle of a Gifoie, Ramegid & a Nosdiga, my screen was all white cept for a few shadows on the edges, and my right eye was twitching.

Not that im a hater for techers, I spent quiet the penny in the recent GBR forking over a stack for 8/8 Pushans & Tesbras, which my techer has mostly 41-50 techs.

- Yes I do enjoy showing them off to people, but I'm very considerate, EVEN if i do party with others i refraim from using the common lagballs such as Ramegid, Gifoe, Dambarta, and especially Rafoie.

[Tyreek]

Sarcasm I believe.

[Dark Emerald EXE]

Anyone who complains about this just likes to show off. >_>

lmao

Im not a techer so i can kinda agree with this

*hides behind shield*
And why do i have a feeling that that techers will become an exstinct class :O

[stukasa]

When I first heard about this I was disappointed, but then I realized I don't play a techer just to show off my flashy explosions, I play it because I enjoy it. People will still be able to tell I'm a MF because I play MF completely different than I play fT. I just wish they were giving us an option to toggle the graphics on or off, but I guess that will have to wait until a future update...

[Sexy_Raine]

meh i agree with the OP

im severly pissed off about this. actually im so pissed off about it that im either going to quit for good or i shall never play as a techer again

Join the Gunmaster club :D

Lasers are like line techs, Rifle is like foie/diga, and shotguns are like dam techs. And better defense stats too.

[Dark Emerald EXE]

Join the Gunmaster club :D

Lasers are like line techs, Rifle is like foie/diga, and shotguns are like dam techs. And better defense stats too.


Yippee ^_^ lol
But wait then they will have to start from scratch(if they dont have gunners)

:o

[Vent]

And why do i have a feeling that that techers will become an exstinct class :O

Well then, if I'm the only one who's playing a techer. I can be the only one showing off my level 41+ uhh I mean my level 21+ tech animations to everyone!

*plots show-off domination*

[Aeris the techer]

That by itself is very true, though I'm not sure what you're trying to add here. xD

Also, no I can't agree that showing off is the only thing that drives people. If that is really what you think, I'm certain that your opinion tells us more about your world view than about other people. You'll be lying if you said that they're a lot of people that don't fall in our category.

Showing off is what creates competition and drives people to do better at the game, nothing more, it does'nt mean you look down on people or make fin of them it is ONLY a technique used in this game for creating competition, thus adding more players, and finally makeing more money. Don't put words in my mouth, just read what is aplainly said.

[Darius_Drake]

Yippee ^_^ lol
But wait then they will have to start from scratch(if they dont have gunners)

:o

Who doesn't have a gunner?

[Syanaide]

People are mad and making quitting threats because they can't lag fighters anymore? Give me a break, your damage is unchanged. People will still know your tech levels just by seeing the numbers.

Too bad, you won't be able to impress the people who don't know how to use view stats. Don't worry, the others still won't care about your 41 megid.

[fay]

Join the Gunmaster club :D

Lasers are like line techs, Rifle is like foie/diga, and shotguns are like dam techs. And better defense stats too.

actually i have a gunmaster already. its the best gunner class by far. i kinda enjoy playing as it. i just cant keep playing it all day like i could with techers =/

[Finae]

< Hates being a gunner thus doesn't have one :P. No lies, thats why I'm FM lol.

Lol I don't agree with the whole showing off deal and shyat. I didn't get a LKK to show off. When I do runs with people, thats just what I do. I'm not trying to show off, I'm not bragging about my gears, I just want to get this stupid redundant repetitive ass mission done as fast as possible for either the end boxes, MP, and prehaps EXP. Hell, sometimes I even make some good friends in a party as I'm not so wrapped in the game. Or maybe I'm down to earth and people just like my lame ass jokes like my ol lady haha.

TBH I have never cared about this in ANY MMO or online game. I play to chatterbox to ppl, argue with people (like what I'm doing now), and to kill shyat. I want to kill shyat as fast as possible so in order to do that, you must pick a good class and gear yourself up. What do you want me to do? Use a Axe with 100 att and 20 acc? Purpose of any game is to get better gear so you can survive against the stronger mobs. How is that showing off? Yeah, I guess I was showing off to myself in offline console rpgs too haha.

So ya, I totally disagree with you there. I could care less what people think about my PA Levels, how much $ I got, gear, etc and I sure as hell don't care about anyone elses even if they brag. Sure, you get those people who check your gear out and comment in game about "oh wow, you got this and that. Not bad." All I say is "ya."

As for the techer thing, SegacJP does not love forces in games thus you will be treated unfairly a lot (haha don't get me started). But in all honesty, majority do not like those 41+ techs, esp if its more than 1 techer in the party, and if the JP bawwed about it and got it and people in game / on forums are bawwing about it, well majority rules. Either way, it wouldn't matter, if SegacJP got it, we will get it and theres no stopping it unless you work in upper management for segac.

In the end, people care about mission times, not your hard earned 50 techs. Same goes with bullets and striking pas. Not my fault segac made this game more melee/ranged oriented and not the typical MMO standard of Mages/ranged > melee. Feels good that mages get the shaft muahhahaha. So feel butthurt techers, either take the heat or reroll to GM/FM, kthxbai.

[autumn]

The tech nerf 'update' is the most EPIC failure I've seen towards techer types yet. It is almost to the point of being offensive. I play a MasterForce so I can have level 50 technics. I want other people to see my leveled technics. You trade off quite a bit to be what is undoubtedly the worst master type, and now the only thing you get in exchange is being nerfed so no one else can see the work you've put in. I had hoped with all the complaints about it that it wouldn't be implemented here on the US/EU servers, or that it would take some time to get here. Knowing it might be coming doesn't have to make the people who are annoyed about it any happier. Even on my non-techer characters I don't boot techers for any reason. I wish that rather then giving unnecessary compensation for rollbacks SEGA would find something nice to do for technic users other then give them steaming piles of crap >_>

[amtalx]

I really don't understand why everyone is bleeding so much. Other players won't see you shit glitter. Boo hoo. Its not like your stats are getting nerfed. Gunners never got ANY visual change for leveling bullets. Do you hear them whining? No. Let your numbers do the talking.

[RemiusTA]

TECH display has been changed in order to prevent graphical slowdown. If a skill over level 30 is used, the level 21 skill effect will still be displayed.

Well, I just quit.


....No, like seriously. I just canceled my subscription. If service and distance between JP isn't enough, its like they just rushed to give us the one title update a good percentage of us didn't even want.

Besides, Carnival has been delayed so many times, i don't even care about it anymore.

Or, perhaps I just cant be pleased anymore.



edit: unless lightning carnival is actually fun. I havent even logged on since master classes, but i dont feel like playing another event thats just a spam fest.

[Pika]

Well, I just quit.


....No, like seriously. I just canceled my subscription. If service and distance between JP isn't enough, its like they just rushed to give us the one title update a good percentage of us didn't even want.

Besides, Carnival has been delayed so many times, i don't even care about it anymore.

Or, perhaps I just cant be pleased anymore.

your quiting because there fixing the lag problem caused by those techs? wow.

anyways, cant wait for this, gonna be a lot of fun o.o

[ShuttleXpC]

Well, I just quit.


....No, like seriously. I just canceled my subscription. If service and distance between JP isn't enough, its like they just rushed to give us the one title update a good percentage of us didn't even want.

Besides, Carnival has been delayed so many times, i don't even care about it anymore.

Or, perhaps I just cant be pleased anymore.



edit: unless lightning carnival is actually fun. I havent even logged on since master classes, but i dont feel like playing another event thats just a spam fest.

Bitch, bitch, bitch. Why post if all you're gonna say is "I'm quitting" mod's should seriously make posting "I'm quitting" flame bait and do moderations for it. I'll likely get modded for saying you're bitching, but its the truth. If you don't like the game, simply leave? I have no clue why you would spend the time and effort to type something out for a game you obviously dislike now?

[xBladeM6x]

Well, I just quit.


....No, like seriously. I just canceled my subscription. If service and distance between JP isn't enough, its like they just rushed to give us the one title update a good percentage of us didn't even want.

Besides, Carnival has been delayed so many times, i don't even care about it anymore.

Or, perhaps I just cant be pleased anymore.



edit: unless lightning carnival is actually fun. I havent even logged on since master classes, but i dont feel like playing another event thats just a spam fest.
Dude, the TECH fix only effects the people who aren't casting them. If you're a techer, you are still seeing them at 31+/41+. >.>;

But if you can't seem to be satisfied, then I guess you have no other option but to quit and gib rarz.

[XxAntMan215xX]

Bitch, bitch, bitch. Why post if all you're gonna say is "I'm quitting" mod's should seriously make posting "I'm quitting" flame bait and do moderations for it. I'll likely get modded for saying you're bitching, but its the truth. If you don't like the game, simply leave? I have no clue why you would spend the time and effort to type something out for a game you obviously dislike now?


LOL this is my laugh of the day GO OBAMA!!!!!

[LuigiMario]

Well, I just quit.


....No, like seriously. I just canceled my subscription. If service and distance between JP isn't enough, its like they just rushed to give us the one title update a good percentage of us didn't even want.

Besides, Carnival has been delayed so many times, i don't even care about it anymore.

Or, perhaps I just cant be pleased anymore.



edit: unless lightning carnival is actually fun. I havent even logged on since master classes, but i dont feel like playing another event thats just a spam fest.

Tell everyone something they care about.

[Smidge204]

This is for you, RemiusTA:

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/3372/butthurtem3.jpg

...and this time, clean the applicator.
=Smidge=

[McLaughlin]

However, you must agree that the only thing that drives players to get things such as red / knight is to have it for everyone else to see. you can't tell me that you would'nt take advantage of the fact that you have something not many people do.

I must disagree. The only thing that drives me to get something is knowing that it betters my character in some way. I couldn't care less if my Agito Repca appeared as a 1* Sword. I don't care if my PAs all show up as level 1 when I get inspected. I know what I have, and that's all that matters to me. If I were a Techer and I happened across a Red/Knight that thing would be sold the moment I got an offer on it. I've no use for it, why would I keep it? To brag? I'm not that arrogant.

Bragging rights do not make this game.

That being said, the pathetic thing about this is that we're moving from one set of Technics lagging everything to another set of Technics lagging. Half of the level 21 Techs are worse than they are at 31 and 41. Something had to be done, but this isn't the right way to go about it (and not because you can't show off your ball of sewage).

[Seority]

They really should of just made this an option in the "Options" menu.
Some computers can handle level 41+ tech spams from 4-6 MFs in a party, and I know that lots of people like to see those shiny techs.
As for XBOX I believe the option should be avalible as well. For PS2, however, they should have this be a constant factor since simple 11+ techs slow it down.

[thunder-ray]

Ummm to be honest I really cant tell much of a difference on what my techs look like. All of my lvl 41 techs still look the same from when i used them before that update. I wonder if playing psu on my ps3 has anything to do with it <.<

[Tyreek]

That's because the nerf only affects what everyone else sees a tech look like. But if you're casting it, you will see its full effect.

[Asahina]

Ok, now I am confused. Why is is that the support spells are not nerfed? Or do we call this "selective nerfing?" I am glad Acrotechers at least get to keep their spells.

Sigh. V.V

Please give us an option to toggle them on or off.

And to add, I have lagged out more this past week after the update more so then I have ever done since the Master classes came out.

[Zarode]

I don't understand what all the complaining is about.


Support techs don't cause visual lag, thus don't get hit by the visual nerf. You still get your "pretty" (pretty as in pretty effin subjective) techniques.


All to yourself.


I'm one of those people who were tired of every damn technique taking up my screen, SINCE the release of FT. This will truly be the best update ever, for me.

[Nitro Vordex]

ITT:Everyone whines about not being able to stroke themselves to sparkle effects.

[Rasputin]

My techs don't do as much damage now that I can see anything other than the tech ;-;

[DreXxiN]

I agree on having an option for it, I'd personally like to see it as long as I know I can SEE.

On a completely unrelated note, I really wish there was an option on PS2 to CHOOSE to disable post effects or not, because doing this would change EVERYTHING.

[Kylie]

Now that I've seen the changes in effect, I'll chime in again and say that my opinion hasn't changed. I wish they could have made an option out of this, but I'm thankful that I don't have to worry about lag and going blind as much. It also seems like most of the dislike for this fix has passed. Rightfully so because it isn't a big deal. They took something back to an extent, but bullets have never gotten an added visual and skills don't get much past twenty-one.

[Delete]

Why bother about others not seeing your techs at their full glory? >_>;
You can Still see it...what's the problem there?

Or Do you also want to see Other MFs techs too?

Kinda obvious one here Ash, its more of the fact that he wants to show his 41 spells to other people, i mean, have you seen lvl 41 spells? There awesome. To work so hard from day 1 to level these things only to have them look like what they did when the game first came out is a huge blow to newmans. Heck, i even quit my techer and sold her psycho wand due to this update.

[Zarode]

There awesome.

You kids do understand how subjective (based on opinion, for all the idiots out there) this is, right?


I think this thread lived its course, and just needs to die or get locked.

[amtalx]

Kinda obvious one here Ash, its more of the fact that he wants to show his 41 spells to other people, i mean, have you seen lvl 41 spells? There awesome. To work so hard from day 1 to level these things only to have them look like what they did when the game first came out is a huge blow to newmans. Heck, i even quit my techer and sold her psycho wand due to this update.

One word:

Bullets.

[ashley50]

yay more bawwing from techers...

[Delete]

You kids do understand how subjective (based on opinion, for all the idiots out there) this is, right?


.

I promise to whoever you want to put in this blank space ........ I cant leave one comment without stuff like this happening.......^.Level 41 spells are amazing, how can you not like em? And also to ashley, not sure if you were even talking to me, my main character is a GM, not a techer. My techer was my alt, so i can care less honestly.

[Ryna]

I'm locking this thread since salient points have been made and things are just going into a circular argument now.