Should ATs be able to use A rank slicers?

[Majarra]

Kinda of random. made one on the official fourms to. Do you think ATs should be able to use A rank slicers?

[ashley50]

...No

[Magus_84]

No, but it'd be really awesome (and probably semi-broken) if they got a 30 bullet cap. >_>

[Mysterious-G]

Well, there just should be a 2nd class being able to use S-Slicers, imo.
Or R-Mags at least. *shrugs*

[joefro]

Well, there just shoudl be a 2nd class being able to use S-Slicers, imo.
Or R-Mags at least. *shrugs*
If they'd do that, I'd say AM.

On topic...
No way, AT=support, Slicer=dps

[God_Shiden]

As if At's needed another reason to be better than Wt's....

[autumn]

No.

Also guntechers can use s rank range-MAGs for some reason.

[_Vyser_]

Yeah, never got why GT can use S-ranked R-mags...The only useful time to use one would be if I had a wand in my right hand. Since I'm a CAST, that's not exactly the best idea. R-mag + wand might be good on Newmans/Humans, but dunno. If you could use a R-mag with a gun, then it would make sense.

[Hiero_Glyph]

I still think that either whips and/or slicers should have been Acro exclusive. As it stands now the AF is much too similar to the FiG and the AT really only stands out at support (which is not needed). If the slicer was Acro exclusive it would have prevented the Chikki nerf and allowed the Acro to have a viable means of controlling mobs in a linear fashion. Similarly, the whip provides a type of radial crowd control and would compliment the slicer very well. If only we could change the past.

[Kylie]

Sure, why not. Support gets dull after a while, and it's not like AT is overly powerful.

[Ethateral]

I still think that either whips and/or slicers should have been Acro exclusive. As it stands now the AF is much too similar to the FiG and the AT really only stands out at support (which is not needed). If the slicer was Acro exclusive it would have prevented the Chikki nerf and allowed the Acro to have a viable means of controlling mobs in a linear fashion. Similarly, the whip provides a type of radial crowd control and would compliment the slicer very well. If only we could change the past.

Am I missing something here?

[Magus_84]

Am I missing something here?

It's that whole "any non-Cast, non-GM/FM is useless" thing that is so prevalent.

Basically, the argument that goes that any class that's not in the above categories is a waste of space that contributes nothing and is actively detrimental to the performance of the team, since they're "taking" a slot that could obviously be filled with one of the legions of pro Cast Male GM or FM.

Y'know, the ones that always have capped PAs and perfect gear, and are on 24/7. And are at your beck and call whenever you need a party, and are always pleasant to play with and perfectly willing to let you get the items you want.

[_Vyser_]

Sure, support isn't needed in this game, but it does make the lives of the other party members much easier.

[Hiero_Glyph]

Am I missing something here?

Yep.

PSU is too easy to make a support class mandatory. In games like FFXI you need a White Mage to prevent a party from getting wiped. In PSU you need di/trimates. Do you need an AT to use di/trimates?

Thus, support is not needed in PSU.

To further prove the point, run an AT and a Master type through a run. Then remove the AT and use a second Master type. Which pairing will run the mission faster? Support does very little in PSU and is not needed in the least.

[PACHI]

...AT really only stands out at support (which is not needed)...

Nothing is needed in the game. Im one of the better AT in this game for about a year... and let me tell you something...

1. a good AT can save you 5 - 15minutes per run on anymission w/ buffs,debuffs, and healing.

2. With this past event with bonus mission, AT were more than a luxury. I can personally say that i saved atleast 50-60 players from dying (especially during de rol le)

3.No class is needed in this game, but having a good AT makes everyone's life easier (same with protranser execpt for the last event)

4. I use 42% plus whips for every element. With a LKK, i do more damage than most players iv played with. whips can hit 6 targets. The last three hits with dangga, i can do 2017-2030 per hit.... 6x3[2017]= 36,306 damage in 2.5 secs! Parties that didnt due poltys eventually did with my 46% ice whip

5. Slicers for AT would be a little too much, and i would there for rule the AT class as the best, but theres a reason why they cant equip it.

6. Master a class before you rule it not needed

7. *ATs smile and giggle inside as they read this post*

[Ethateral]

Yep.

PSU is too easy to make a support class mandatory. In games like FFXI you need a White Mage to prevent a party from getting wiped. In PSU you need di/trimates. Do you need an AT to use di/trimates?

Thus, support is not needed in PSU.

To further prove the point, run an AT and a Master type through a run. Then remove the AT and use a second Master type. Which pairing will run the mission faster? Support does very little in PSU and is not needed in the least.

What do you do when you run out of dimates, trimates, and Stars? Hmm. Unless you want to go out, lose your beast/Paradi for buying more and wasting more time, sure. AT are a helpful part of any party. Shoot, even a FT is. :/

[PACHI]

What do you do when you run out of dimates, trimates, and Stars? Hmm. Unless you want to go out, lose your beast/Paradi for buying more and wasting more time, sure. AT are a helpful part of any party. Shoot, even a FT is. :/

Exactlly!!!:D Good point. Just have them wait for S3 missions and some harder events! I LAUGH AT THE FACE OF DEATH. But if im useing my AT, you wont die... unless your a noob. Useing trimates kinda throws me off in battle with my MasterForce or MasterGunner. Especially when you keep popping them like M&Ms on missions like bladed legacy.

[Tsavo]

What do you do when you run out of dimates, trimates, and Stars? Hmm. Unless you want to go out, lose your beast/Paradi for buying more and wasting more time, sure. AT are a helpful part of any party. Shoot, even a FT is. :/

While I don't agree with the original statement that AT or support in general is a waste of space the fact is its very rare for me or any of my friends to run out of healing items completely. Even when soloing. Ok, to be fair I ran out of healing items once in this game and that was when I faced off against the boss in Bladed Legacy on S2 for the first time. One time in like... 2000 hours. I'm all for support mind you but at least paint a realistic scenario to back your point.

Oh and as to the topic: no. AT is fine as is.

[Hiero_Glyph]

What do you do when you run out of dimates, trimates, and Stars? Hmm. Unless you want to go out, lose your beast/Paradi for buying more and wasting more time, sure. AT are a helpful part of any party. Shoot, even a FT is. :/

I can carry 20 Trimates, 20 Dimates and 10 Star Atomizers. Do you know how badly you have to play to go through all of those healing items? Worse yet, I can take my partner machine GH-465 and Maya Shidow and they will cast Giresta (level 21-30) and Resta as needed. Again, no support class is needed in PSU. I know, I play an AT on all of my characters.

[Hiero_Glyph]

Nothing is needed in the game. Im one of the better AT in this game for about a year... and let me tell you something...

1. a good AT can save you 5 - 15minutes per run on anymission w/ buffs,debuffs, and healing.

2. With this past event with bonus mission, AT were more than a luxury. I can personally say that i saved atleast 50-60 players from dying (especially during de rol le)

3.No class is needed in this game, but having a good AT makes everyone's life easier (same with protranser execpt for the last event)

4. I use 42% plus whips for every element. With a LKK, i do more damage than most players iv played with. whips can hit 6 targets. The last three hits with dangga, i can do 2017-2030 per hit.... 6x3[2017]= 36,306 damage in 2.5 secs! Parties that didnt due poltys eventually did with my 46% ice whip

5. Slicers for AT would be a little too much, and i would there for rule the AT class as the best, but theres a reason why they cant equip it.

6. Master a class before you rule it not needed

7. *ATs smile and giggle inside as they read this post*

1. With that type of savings I'm sure you won the Gurhalian Cup, right? An AT will not have any dramatic effect on a party's clearing time. I am curious what mission you would improve by 15 minutes though. I can't remember the last time a mission took me longer than 30 minutes period so to save me 50% of my longest mission is, well, impossible.
2. If a player cannot quickly use a di/trimate then they deserve to die. A player's incompetence is not a reason for making an AT needed.
3. Well, you need a class to kill enemies so the class that can kill them the most effectively would be the most needed. ATs do make a mission easier, although do we need PSU to be any easier?
4. I have equipment just as good as yours, although I use a Red/Knight. I'm sure you have a full palette of 50% daggers as well, right? I do.
5. Although I would appreciate slicers for an AT, I agree that they are not needed.
6. I have already 'mastered' the AT, that is why I can make claims about them being superfluous.
7. :-)

[Darklighter]

Shit my AT is worthless. I should just quit the game or remake it into a male cast and be good for something other then wasting my teams time and taking up a space better used for an empty spot....

[Ethateral]

While I don't agree with the original statement that AT or support in general is a waste of space the fact is its very rare for me or any of my friends to run out of healing items completely. Even when soloing. Ok, to be fair I ran out of healing items once in this game and that was when I faced off against the boss in Bladed Legacy on S2 for the first time. One time in like... 2000 hours. I'm all for support mind you but at least paint a realistic scenario to back your point.

Oh and as to the topic: no. AT is fine as is.


No, I hardly, if ever, have run out of healing items when soloing/running with players. However, it brings an ease to a party as a whole. Lol.. Realistic? I believe it was.


I can carry 20 Trimates, 20 Dimates and 10 Star Atomizers. Do you know how badly you have to play to go through all of those healing items? Worse yet, I can take my partner machine GH-465 and Maya Shidow and they will cast Giresta (level 21-30) and Resta as needed. Again, no support class is needed in PSU. I know, I play an AT on all of my characters.

That's saying if the said NPC casts it. Also, if a player pops a said Trimate, there's also the chance of it, not going through, since there is a slight delay with the healing. It's not entirely THEIR fault. If you know what I mean. I play AT. I know that they're much appreciated and wanted, last I checked. I know they were during the Carnival.

Meh, just wait for S3s. :/

[Calsetes]

I say yes, but ONLY if Fighgunners can get S-rank Crossbows.

I want an S-rank Crossbow that's a non-Guntecher class.

[DreXxiN]

No, I hardly, if ever, have run out of healing items when soloing/running with players. However, it brings an ease to a party as a whole. Lol.. Realistic? I believe it was.



That's saying if the said NPC casts it. Also, if a player pops a said Trimate, there's also the chance of it, not going through, since there is a slight delay with the healing. It's not entirely THEIR fault. If you know what I mean. I play AT. I know that they're much appreciated and wanted, last I checked. I know they were during the Carnival.

Meh, just wait for S3s. :/

Nah, all S3's we will have within the next year are going to have lower levels than some of our current S2 missions.

I think when I solo I use maybe 1/3rd of my mates..

When partying with my friends about 3-5 dimates...maybe...with no techer..;/

*Shrugs* Face it, Sega screwed up. lol

[Gen2000]

Yeah, some people get too sensitive about things. Support has really not been needed for a long time now for any decent player. Between how much meseta enemies/mission rewards pay out, dumb enemy A.I. features, and overpowered PAs, AT support is just more of a bonus.

Doesn't mean you can't/shouldn't still play GT/AT/FT if you want but I would think you support players are aware you're not the great saviors to the party as your job description may lead you to think by now. I still play AT but just because of variety and it's fun to me.

This game favors raw, blitzing power over anything. "Best defense is a strong offensive" and such. S3s won't change anything.

[unicorn]

AT doesnt need Slicers.

What this game needs to do is practically double the price of restoratives. Buff enemies stats and then we'll talk.

What this game also needs is to buff AT/AF/GT/WT/and FT.

AT;
20/30/30/50
S-rank: Twin Handgun, Machine Gun

AF:
40/30/-/-
S-rank: Card, Twin Claw

GT:
20/40/30/40
S-rank: Whip. Yes you heard me. Why? Many would want a Card, but I can see a Whip+RCSM combo to be effective. And GT has no boss-killer either. Not to mention GT is a supportive type naturally and whips are supportive.

WT:
40/20/40/30
S-rank: Single Claw, Madoog. WT needs a higher tier of both Skills and Techs. WT still would have less TP than GT and AT, but would benefit more from Ra-techs (and range for maybe Gi-techs).

FT:
10/30/40/40
Just give it a higher TP, and ATP modifier. If its going to have any edge over MF, atleast make its range stronger. T_T; AT twins > FT bow, wtf.

[Vent]

I don't think ATs need slicers. AFs should be the ones spamming the heck out of chikki and having a RCSM firing constantly.

If you ask me, no other class needs to have any offensive role if you're playing with a bunch of GM/FMs. While the buffs and Giresta are nice, debuffs barely help anything go faster as far as I've noticed. My 31 zalure only increases my card damage from 380ish to 400ish, about 20 dmg. The number of damage increased seems to be bigger when you're dealing bigger numbers in the first place. But even with that, I haven't noticed much increase in the time needed to kill the spawn.

Vivi Danga can deal loads of damage, if you manage to pull it off. I've noticed that if you get attacked by a mob with a damage that normally would cause you to flinch, it will cancel out Danga. Other PAs don't have that issue, as far as I know.

[Arada]

AT doesn't really need anything in my opinion.

It's the other hybrid/support classes that need to be improved.

[Gen2000]

I've noticed that if you get attacked by a mob with a damage that normally would cause you to flinch, it will cancel out Danga. Other PAs don't have that issue, as far as I know.

Renkai (Twin Dagger PA) is like this too, the thing with Renkai is during it's earlier v.1 days it wasn't like this but during it's nerf (because Renkai was as broken as Majarra back then) they tone down it's damage along with the "auto-guard" most other PAs have.

If you're WT and get a Whip PA to 21+, the PA becomes non-interruptible then. I supposed this was to make up for it's slowest when WT's uses the PA.

I noticed If you have like 50% armor, lv.41+ deband and lv.41 Jellen you can make Viva Danga non-interruptible as AT too in S (and maybe S2) missions but only on specific, very weak mobs like bardia and the like.

[DreXxiN]

If you're WT and get a Whip PA to 21+, the PA becomes non-interruptible then. I supposed this was to make up for it's slowest when WT's uses the PA.

.....No

[Magus_84]

I don't think it's "uninterruptible". Just less likely to be interrupted. It'd take a hard(er) hit to flinch you, as opposed to any love tap.

Haven't tested it myself though (yet), so I can't confirm for sure.

[Gen2000]

.....No

No what? When I got Viva Grudda/Danga to 21+ on WT during random Awoken Serpent runs I could use it without finching getting hit in the face with multiple Digas and random physical attacks. I couldn't do that before I got it to 21+. Have you tested it?

[mvffin]

yes, whips and slicers are LESS interruptable at 21+, things that could interrupt you before won't anymore, but some things will still knock you out of it.

I love using slicer on de rol le as he approaches the boat, the missile babies don't knock me off the switches if I chikki.

[Gen2000]

I think as long as the attack doesn't cause blowback/knockdown you won't be interrupted but I didn't keep track of every single attack vs. me using Whip PA lv.21+ when I was playing WT because I just assumed at that point it followed the same rules as other melee PAs in terms of auto-guard so maybe some unique attack, besides the previously mentioned ones, from a random enemy still interrupts Whip 21+ PAs.

[DreXxiN]

Yeah...honestly it really doesn't really stop any of that.

I have vivi danga at 30 and when I test it I still get tossed around at times. Perhaps the frequency in which it happens is simply coincidential.