Smooth, Canada. Aftermath of Greyhound bus killing.

[Uncle_bob]

Someone just passed this on to me:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090305/national/crime_bus_beheading

:disapprove:

[Shadowpawn]

They're still going to lock him in a mental hospital for the rest of his life though. I feel sorry for the victim's family.

[McLaughlin]

I sincerely doubt he'll be getting out of there any time soon, if ever.

And if the guy really was bonkers, and he really does get himself sorted out, why not let him out? The entire point of the system is to rehabilitate offenders. If he's rehabilitated why waste money keeping him there?

[Uncle_bob]

And if the guy really was bonkers, and he really does get himself sorted out, why not let him out? The entire point of the system is to rehabilitate offenders. If he's rehabilitated why waste money keeping him there?

Why not let him out? Because he brutally murdered and mutilated an innocent man and would probably do so again if given the chance?

I hear bullets are pretty cheap these days.

[Tessu]

Smooth indeed.

I like rehabilitation -> jail without parole so that they can become mentally competent enough to realize what they did and then rot in jail while fully aware. But maybe that's too hard on them, it's not like he meant to do it! :( :( :(

[McLaughlin]

I'm no fan of what he did either, and I also think he should be locked away for a very long time. I'm just playing devil's advocate. To be perfectly honest I don't think he can be rehabilitated.

However, letting him out once he's proven he is, and will stay, mentally stable (with the contingency that he stays on his medications and checks in however often), I argue, is no worse than letting the repeat offenders (of the sane variety) out on early parole.

[Dangerous55]

He should be locked up somewhere, forever. As for rehabilitation...I really don't think murderers can be rehabilitated...unless we are talking about a far fetched thing. Think the movie "The Invasion".

I don't know how it is in Canada, but the criminal justice system here needs a lot of improvement. So many things wrong with it. I work in it. A lot of things aren't right...you'll find some people getting out with multiple offenses and then some guy not getting out for a long time when he clearly should be given another chance.

[Uncle_bob]

Obsidian. You are aware of what murder is, right?

[Leviathan]

Rehab [if he is truely "insane" if not he should just go straight to jail] then jail.
There is no excuse for what he did.

[Aisha379]

Drugs = Rehab-able.

Theft = Rehab-able

Beating someone up out of anger = Rehab-able


Taking a machete on board a tour bus and beheading a sleeping person = ...Are you fucking kidding me?

[McLaughlin]

Obsidian. You are aware of what murder is, right?

Perfectly.

Whether or not he did it isn't the question. The question is, did he know what he was doing? Insane people do insane things all the time. If he wasn't in his right mind, which the court apparently believes is the case, then, I would argue, there is the possibility of rehabilitation (however slim).

I'm not calling the guy a saint, I'm just playing devil's advocate for the sake of discussion. The court didn't say "He did it, he was fully aware of what he was doing, and he knew it was wrong."

And again, I'll ask, why all the outrage over something that happens all the time (the defense, not this kind of crime), when murderers serve less than a third of their sentence before being granted parole for pretending to feel bad about what they did?

[Aisha379]

And again, I'll ask, why all the outrage over something that happens all the time (the defense, not this kind of crime), when murderers serve less than a third of their sentence before being granted parole for pretending to feel bad about what they did?

Most people who know me are aware I am pretty much always pissed by this, no matter how "high profile" the crime is.

Its sad but true.

[beatrixkiddo]

Pleading insanity isn't really a "way out". If his insanity caused a brutal murder like this, they're more than likely NEVER going to let him out. He'll be in an asylum for the rest of his life.

[Vanzazikon]

If he was sent to jail, he'd probably hang himself, after all, he did plead to the officers to kill him when he was caught after jumping out of the bus' windows.

Either way, I'd say he's gone for good.

[Commodity]

FYI, "Life in prison" in Canada means 25 years. So while there is no minimum sentence for pleading insanity, there is also no maximum. I doubt he's ever getting out.

I'd prefer him never getting out rather than 25 years(Though for a 25 year sentence without parole, the accused is reviewed and kept for another year and reviewed again every year. I can't remember exactly how it works)

I sorta wish I had gone to the trial(I live in Winnipeg), but it probably was packed anyways.

@Dangerous: Yeah, our criminal justice system is pretty messed up too. I personally don't care that he was put into a mental hospital rather than a prison, but I do care that he's "not responsible".

[KodiaX987]

I have the perfect plan.

Lock him up, keep him safe and warm, and then sic him on the Americans when they try to annex us. :)

[Kent]

I've always found "insanity" as a legal defense to be a rather interesting dilemma.

Specifically in how it can be used to make someone not criminally liable for something that ... they actually did. On one hand, you have the fact that it's entirely possible that someone could have a severe mental issue (or temporary impairment) that could cause them to "lose control"... While at the same time, that doesn't retroactively make it so the person didn't do it, because the crime had obviously been committed by someone, or else we wouldn't be running into this problem.

[CrimsomWolf]

Insanity is just a convinent way of letting maniacs get lighter punishment.
It's the same thing in my country (Though actually it's worse, here law is usually on the side of the criminal).





There's a reason why firing squads were formed.

And it's because of this half-assed "justice"; why we often get people (who were harmed by crime) attempting to do the justice themselves. Like by stabbing a maniacal psycho.

Of course then, law sees clearly what needs to be done. As do some activists.

[Swiftstrike]

This is what I think the real question is:

To what extent do we protect the rights of the criminal more than the rights of the people?

Is it the criminal's right to live? Yes.
Is it the peoples' right to live? Yes.

Everyone has the ability to kill another, no matter how farfetched that sounds. However, the conditions it takes for someone to do that is extreme and rarely happens.

However, there are people that will commit murder for very little reason (such is this case). The question is now to kill the criminal or not (the debate of Capital Punishment).

If the criminal is let to live, then he/she will occupy a jail cell which (in the US and many parts of Europe at least) has better living conditions than half the world [free food, free room and board, some have TV and other leisurely activities, ect]. All of that comes at the expense of the tax payers. We must pay to provide for a killer. In most cases, however, the criminal is held for a certain amount of time and then let go. This means that the criminal may (or may not) commit murder yet agian.

If the criminal is to die, then he/she cannot kill anyone else.

There are many moral implications, but try to consider this at an objective level: Kill the one to protect the many.

Don't get me wrong, I think all life as equal and detest the loss of any life, but I do understand certain measures (and sacrifices) must be taken to protect that life.

[Commodity]

Just throwing it out there, I'm pretty sure a loony bin would have worse conditions than a prison.

[Swiftstrike]

Just throwing it out there, I'm pretty sure a loony bin would have worse conditions than a prison.

Just like prison/jail, mental institutes vary by country. Usually, the attendee is provided with most of what they need (food, shelter, attendants, activities, ect). Sadly, the person is also pumped full of medication in most cases as well. :(